Author Topic: Do weapons of mass destruction have to be found in Iraq to justify the war?  (Read 3585 times)

Offline Arfann

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 609
Do weapons of mass destruction have to be found in Iraq to justify the war?
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2003, 08:12:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by OIO

IMO, the Iraqi population was LUCKY


Yeah, lucky. That's egg-zackly what I think. Lucky to lose a tyrant and be occuppied by the U S of A. And we're in it just to help them out, don' t ya know. No, really, we haven't the vaguest notion of doing ya wrong, little brown dudes!

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
Do weapons of mass destruction have to be found in Iraq to justify the war?
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2003, 09:04:31 PM »
Arfann that was an incredibly racist statement you just made...

Offline Arfann

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 609
Do weapons of mass destruction have to be found in Iraq to justify the war?
« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2003, 09:44:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Arfann that was an incredibly racist statement you just made...


Shucks, I'm glad ya noticed. There may be hope for you yet.

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
Do weapons of mass destruction have to be found in Iraq to justify the war?
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2003, 10:04:36 PM »
Arfann the way you have been posting lately really makes it seem that you want it and all the other bad things to happend - at least thats how you come across. Its one thing to be sceptical and to question but the way you have been behaving is something beyond that. There is a kind of unfounded fatalistic certainty and hatred in how you present your arguments so that you come off as if you want all these bad things to come true if for no other reason than to make the usa look bad and allow you to proclaim that you were right all along with no real regard for the iraqi people. The fact that you equate the current US military presence to the full horrors saddams regime is pretty clear evidence of your radicalism and your wish that the we indeed become like saddam.

I think I should feel sorry for you, there is so much hate in your words and so much anger - I dont know where it comes from.

Offline Arfann

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 609
Do weapons of mass destruction have to be found in Iraq to justify the war?
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2003, 10:27:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Arfann the way you have been posting lately really makes it seem that you want it and all the other bad things to happend - at least thats how you come across. Its one thing to be sceptical and to question but the way you have been behaving is something beyond that. There is a kind of unfounded fatalistic certainty and hatred in how you present your arguments so that you come off as if you want all these bad things to come true if for no other reason than to make the usa look bad and allow you to proclaim that you were right all along with no real regard for the iraqi people. The fact that you equate the current US military presence to the full horrors saddams regime is pretty clear evidence of your radicalism and your wish that the we indeed become like saddam.

I think I should feel sorry for you, there is so much hate in your words and so much anger - I dont know where it comes from.


First, allow me to state the obvious. There is nothing I would like more than to be proven wrong in my suspicions about Dubya and friends.

Second, the only reason I sound hateful is that most folks are only accustomed to hearing forceful absolutisms in the rhetoric of the hardcore right. It didn't sound unusual to hear BS about "Slick Willie", but speak out against the policies of Dubya and friends and you are out of line. I speak out in the way I do to refute this trend. Trust me, it's not just the online forums that are offended by my attitude. My normal social circle is filled with gun, knife, WW2 flight sim, and high level manufacturing business persons. These folks will be even quicker than you are to say "I told you so" if Iraq turns into the model of Democracy for the Middle East our administration says it will be.

Third, I bought into the rhetoric of war in the sixties. If you were around then, you may remember that the government and general public were all for me and others of my generation to run off into harms way. For me it took over 2 years under the gun to realize what a crock of crap it all was. I came home much more skeptical of what my government says and does. It's a classic case of "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". If my words will make at least one person actually stop and think rather than join in with the lemmings I will be very pleased.

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
Do weapons of mass destruction have to be found in Iraq to justify the war?
« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2003, 10:42:16 PM »
But dont you allow for the fact that we as a country have learned from the problems in vietnam?

Offline Arfann

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 609
Do weapons of mass destruction have to be found in Iraq to justify the war?
« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2003, 11:27:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
But dont you allow for the fact that we as a country have learned from the problems in vietnam?


Well, I had hoped that we had. But here we go again, losing and taking lives with "might makes right diplomacy", giving up rights including free speech, castigating anyone who dares question the pres. Makes me want to puke. Excuse me . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . There, now I feel better.

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
Do weapons of mass destruction have to be found in Iraq to justify the war?
« Reply #52 on: April 21, 2003, 12:56:50 AM »
Who in the government is opressing your feee speech? Is anyone preventing you from protesting? You dont consider disagreement with your opionions, especilally yourt more extreme ones, to be censorship or giving up free speech rights do you?

Maybe you just have to accept there is a genuine difference of opinion amongst the american people regarding this war, rougly 70% support it and 30% oppose it according to most opionon polls.

Since you brought up the stupid hatred of clinton in the 90s I have to ask if you think clintons allies just stood back and never responed and did not get angry, hillary clinton even called it a vast right wing conspiracy. What I'm saying why did you not remember that when complaining that people who disagree with buush are now uniquiely attacked or criticized.

BTW bill clinton also attacked and inavad a soverign nation without UN approval and that was a nation that only killed its own civilans and that posed absolutely no threat to the USA whatsover - what did you feel about that?
« Last Edit: April 21, 2003, 01:00:20 AM by GRUNHERZ »

Offline Arfann

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 609
Do weapons of mass destruction have to be found in Iraq to justify the war?
« Reply #53 on: April 21, 2003, 10:57:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Who in the government is opressing your feee speech? Is anyone preventing you from protesting? You dont consider disagreement with your opionions, especilally yourt more extreme ones, to be censorship or giving up free speech rights do you?

Maybe you just have to accept there is a genuine difference of opinion amongst the american people regarding this war, rougly 70% support it and 30% oppose it according to most opionon polls.

Since you brought up the stupid hatred of clinton in the 90s I have to ask if you think clintons allies just stood back and never responed and did not get angry, hillary clinton even called it a vast right wing conspiracy. What I'm saying why did you not remember that when complaining that people who disagree with buush are now uniquiely attacked or criticized.

BTW bill clinton also attacked and inavad a soverign nation without UN approval and that was a nation that only killed its own civilans and that posed absolutely no threat to the USA whatsover - what did you feel about that?


Reckon I can concede the "free speech" point.  Pin heads rising up attempting to shout down any opinion contrary to Dubya's is actually just them using their rights.

Re: opinion polls. These are the same American people who keep reality tv and hip-hop music at the top of the charts, right?  Say no more.

Re: Clinton. I'm no Clinton apologist, and Hillary is a twit. And I felt the same about it as I do about Dubya's invasion of Iraq. It's a problem, but not our problem.

Offline Wlfgng

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5252
      • http://www.nick-tucker.com
Do weapons of mass destruction have to be found in Iraq to justify the war?
« Reply #54 on: April 21, 2003, 11:07:01 AM »
Quote
Re: opinion polls. These are the same American people who keep reality tv and hip-hop music at the top of the charts, right? Say no more.

LMAO!!!  couldn't agree more !!!

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
Do weapons of mass destruction have to be found in Iraq to justify the war?
« Reply #55 on: April 21, 2003, 11:10:31 AM »
"Re: opinion polls. These are the same American people who keep reality tv and hip-hop music at the top of the charts, right? Say no more."

Yea but thats becouse you are prolly an older guy. Both of us know that back in the 1950s and early 1960s the older guys of that time prolly thought the music you loved was stupid too. :)

Offline Arfann

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 609
Do weapons of mass destruction have to be found in Iraq to justify the war?
« Reply #56 on: April 21, 2003, 11:51:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
"Re: opinion polls. These are the same American people who keep reality tv and hip-hop music at the top of the charts, right? Say no more."

Yea but thats becouse you are prolly an older guy. Both of us know that back in the 1950s and early 1960s the older guys of that time prolly thought the music you loved was stupid too. :)


Actually, I hated the "bubble gum" pap that has evolved into hip-hop. I was more into serious music, like Bethoven, Brahms, Hendrix, and Zappa.

Clapton is God

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
Do weapons of mass destruction have to be found in Iraq to justify the war?
« Reply #57 on: April 21, 2003, 12:11:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arfann
Hendrix, and Zappa.


Aha!

"Counter-culture hippie slacker druggie degenerates I say, my god whats this country coming to, back in my day we listend to real music - swinging to the big band masters and jazz."

Sgt. Joe America
WW2 Veteran :)

You see my point arfann? And thats prolly what many WW2 veterans would have thought of the music you loved like Hendrix and Zappa.  And surely we all respect the american WW2 generation, no? Just about timing, just about timing.

Offline AKIron

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13371
Do weapons of mass destruction have to be found in Iraq to justify the war?
« Reply #58 on: April 21, 2003, 12:12:55 PM »
In the beginning I felt that WMD needed to be found to justify our actions. However, if stories like this can be proven true then they are enough.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=68&ncid=68&e=3&u=/nyt/20030421/ts_nyt/illicit_arms_kept_till_eve_of_war__an_iraqi_scientist_is_said_to_assert

the link is too long for the BB, will look for another

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/21/international/worldspecial/21CHEM.html?ex=1051588800&en=e735bc70e8b3fd77&ei=5071&partner=CNN
« Last Edit: April 21, 2003, 12:18:45 PM by AKIron »
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Wlfgng

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5252
      • http://www.nick-tucker.com
Do weapons of mass destruction have to be found in Iraq to justify the war?
« Reply #59 on: April 21, 2003, 01:01:40 PM »
point about the music.. most of todays' just plain sucks.

this is from a musicians point of view..
no talent, no soul.. cookie cutter hit-formula music

notice how many 'new' artists are using old songs for their hits.

it began with bubble-gum, progressed through hip hop and rap and continues today.  most of today's 'artists' can't even read music, let alone write it.

it's all about the record companies and radio play-lists today