Author Topic: A few questions for Americans  (Read 4143 times)

Offline Martlet

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Re: Re: Re: A few questions for Americans
« Reply #60 on: April 27, 2003, 09:17:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Imp
1. The Dixie Chicks said what they thought, which is their right, and now people hate them for this. Thats wrong. You dont respect there opinions, which is the whole point damn it. They have a right to their opinions wether you agree or not. Frreddom of opinion is about respecting other's opinions as well.
(Something I learned in my worker union meeting when some people interupt others who have different opinion and are told to shut up and let the one they interupted speak is mind. That made me realize that they have a right to their opinion and I should respect it even if I think its bull crap. You dont seem to do that, which makes you look narrow minded to me.)

2. But he can threaten consequences on countries that dont agree with him. Which is a way of saying dont go against me.

3. So the US as the right to rally country to their cause, but France doesnt? Thats ridiculeous!!!!!!!!!


1.  Show me where I said they don't have a right to their opinion.  Of course they do.  It's what makes America great.  I also have a right to disagree with their opinion.  I also have a right to not support opinions opposed to mine.

2.  Yep, he can.  Why the hell would we support a country that opposes us?  That's just stupid.

3.  France can do whatever it likes.  Noone said they can't.  Just like the US can.  Just stop the whining because they do what they like, then face the backlash from their actions.

Offline crabofix

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« Reply #61 on: April 27, 2003, 09:20:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fatty

As I said, again and again, there are no sanctions and will be no sanctions against France.  But France has stated it may try to deny EU membership to countries who supported the US.


If you are refearing to Turkey, they voted not to let you guys to use their country for an attack. Then there was money offered, from US, like 60 billions.
After this, many of the Other Eu members warned turkey, not to go against their parlament:  Turkey did a wise choice.

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #62 on: April 27, 2003, 09:23:51 AM »
The Security Council unanimously adopted a resolution November 8 strengthening the weapons inspection regime for Iraq and giving Baghdad, in the words of the resolution, "a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations."

The resolution, number 1441, establishes an enhanced inspection regime for Iraq's disarmament, which will be carried out by the U.N. Monitoring, Verification, and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC) and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).

All 15 council members voted for the resolution: permanent members China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United States; and non-permanent members Bulgaria, Cameroon, Colombia, Guinea, Ireland, Mauritius, Mexico, Norway, Singapore, and Syria.

The resolution states that Iraq remains in material breach of council resolutions relating to Iraq's 1990 invasion of Kuwait and requires that Baghdad give UNMOVIC and IAEA a complete and accurate declaration of all aspects of its chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs and ballistic missiles systems, as well as information on other chemical, biological, and nuclear programs that are supposed to be for civilian purposes, within 30 days.

It gives UNMOVIC and IAEA, among other things, unrestricted rights of entry and travel into and throughout Iraq; provides for U.N. security for the inspectors; gives the inspectors the right to freeze sites and declare exclusion zones; and gives them the right to conduct interviews, either inside or outside the country, without the presence of Iraqi officials. Most importantly, it gives the inspectors immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted access to all sites in Iraq, including so-called presidential sites.

The resolution directs Hans Blix, executive chairman of UNMOVIC, and Mohamed ElBaradei, IAEA director general, to "report immediately to the council any interference by Iraq with inspection activities as well as any failure by Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations." The council will then "convene immediately ... in order to consider the situation and the need for full compliance with all of the relevant council resolutions in order to secure international peace and security," it says.

Finally, it warns Iraq that "it will face serious consequences" if it continues to violate its obligations as spelled out in the resolution.

Following is the text of the resolution:


The Security Council,

Recalling all its previous relevant resolutions, in particular its resolutions 661 (1990) of 6 August 1990, 678 (1990) of 29 November 1990, 686 (1991) of 2 March 1991, 687 (1991) of 3 April 1991, 688 (1991) of 5 April 1991, 707 (1991) of 15 August 1991, 715 (1991) of 11 October 1991, 986 (1995) of 14 April 1995, and 1284 (1999) of 17 December 1999, and all the relevant statements of its President,

Recalling also its resolution 1382 (2001) of 29 November 2001 and its intention to implement it fully,

Recognizing the threat Iraq's noncompliance with Council resolutions and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles poses to international peace and security,

Recalling that its resolution 678 (1990) authorized Member States to use all necessary means to uphold and implement its resolution 660 (1990) of 2 August 1990 and all relevant resolutions subsequent to Resolution 660 (1990) and to restore international peace and security in the area,

Further recalling that its resolution 687 (1991) imposed obligations on Iraq as a necessary step for achievement of its stated objective of restoring international peace and security in the area,

Deploring the fact that Iraq has not provided an accurate, full, final, and complete disclosure, as required by resolution 687 (1991), of all aspects of its programmes to develop weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles with a range greater than one hundred and fifty kilometres, and of all holdings of such weapons, their components and production facilities and locations, as well as all other nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not related to nuclear-weapons-usable material,

Deploring further that Iraq repeatedly obstructed immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted access to sites designated by the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), failed to cooperate fully and unconditionally with UNSCOM and IAEA weapons inspectors, as required by resolution 687 (1991), and ultimately ceased all cooperation with UNSCOM and the IAEA in 1998,

Deploring the absence, since December 1998, in Iraq of international monitoring, inspection, and verification, as required by relevant resolutions, of weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles, in spite of the Council's repeated demands that Iraq provide immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted access to the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC), established in resolution 1284 (1999) as the successor organization to UNSCOM, and the IAEA, and regretting the consequent prolonging of the crisis in the region and the suffering of the Iraqi people,

Deploring also that the Government of Iraq has failed to comply with its commitments pursuant to resolution 687 (1991) with regard to terrorism, pursuant to resolution 688 (1991) to end repression of its civilian population and to provide access by international humanitarian organizations to all those in need of assistance in Iraq, and pursuant to resolutions 686 (1991), 687 (1991), and 1284 (1999) to return or cooperate in accounting for Kuwaiti and third country nationals wrongfully detained by Iraq, or to return Kuwaiti property wrongfully seized by Iraq,

Recalling that in its resolution 687 (1991) the Council declared that a ceasefire would be based on acceptance by Iraq of the provisions of that resolution, including the obligations on Iraq contained therein,

Determined to ensure full and immediate compliance by Iraq without conditions or restrictions with its obligations under resolution 687 (1991) and other relevant resolutions and recalling that the resolutions of the Council constitute the governing standard of Iraqi compliance,

Recalling that the effective operation of UNMOVIC, as the successor organization to the Special Commission, and the IAEA is essential for the implementation of resolution 687 (1991) and other relevant resolutions,

Noting the letter dated 16 September 2002 from the Minister for Foreign Affairs of Iraq addressed to the Secretary General is a necessary first step toward rectifying Iraq's continued failure to comply with relevant Council resolutions,

Noting further the letter dated 8 October 2002 from the Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC and the Director General of the IAEA to General Al-Saadi of the Government of Iraq laying out the practical arrangements, as a follow-up to their meeting in Vienna, that are prerequisites for the resumption of inspections in Iraq by UNMOVIC and the IAEA, and expressing the gravest concern at the continued failure by the Government of Iraq to provide confirmation of the arrangements as laid out in that letter,

Reaffirming the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Iraq, Kuwait, and the neighbouring States,

Commending the Secretary General and members of the League of Arab States and its Secretary General for their efforts in this regard,

Determined to secure full compliance with its decisions,

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #63 on: April 27, 2003, 09:24:31 AM »
Acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations,


1. Decides that Iraq has been and remains in material breach of its obligations under relevant resolutions, including resolution 687 (1991), in particular through Iraq's failure to cooperate with United Nations inspectors and the IAEA, and to complete the actions required under paragraphs 8 to 13 of resolution 687 (1991);

2. Decides, while acknowledging paragraph 1 above, to afford Iraq, by this resolution, a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations under relevant resolutions of the Council; and accordingly decides to set up an enhanced inspection regime with the aim of bringing to full and verified completion the disarmament process established by resolution 687 (1991) and subsequent resolutions of the Council;

3. Decides that, in order to begin to comply with its disarmament obligations, in addition to submitting the required biannual declarations, the Government of Iraq shall provide to UNMOVIC, the IAEA, and the Council, not later than 30 days from the date of this resolution, a currently accurate, full, and complete declaration of all aspects of its programmes to develop chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles, and other delivery systems such as unmanned aerial vehicles and dispersal systems designed for use on aircraft, including any holdings and precise locations of such weapons, components, sub-components, stocks of agents, and related material and equipment, the locations and work of its research, development and production facilities, as well as all other chemical, biological, and nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not related to weapon production or material;

4. Decides that false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted by Iraq pursuant to this resolution and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with, and cooperate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq's obligations and will be reported to the Council for assessment in accordance with paragraphs 11 and 12 below;

5. Decides that Iraq shall provide UNMOVIC and the IAEA immediate, unimpeded, unconditional, and unrestricted access to any and all, including underground, areas, facilities, buildings, equipment, records, and means of transport which they wish to inspect, as well as immediate, unimpeded, unrestricted, and private access to all officials and other persons whom UNMOVIC or the IAEA wish to interview in the mode or location of UNMOVIC's or the IAEA's choice pursuant to any aspect of their mandates; further decides that UNMOVIC and the IAEA may at their discretion conduct interviews inside or outside of Iraq, may facilitate the travel of those interviewed and family members outside of Iraq, and that, at the sole discretion of UNMOVIC and the IAEA, such interviews may occur without the presence of observers from the Iraqi government; and instructs UNMOVIC and requests the IAEA to resume inspections no later than 45 days following adoption of this resolution and to update the Council 60 days thereafter;

6. Endorses the 8 October 2002 letter from the Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC and the Director General of the IAEA to General Al-Saadi of the Government of Iraq, which is annexed hereto, and decides that the contents of the letter shall be binding upon Iraq;

7. Decides further that, in view of the prolonged interruption by Iraq of the presence of UNMOVIC and the IAEA and in order for them to accomplish the tasks set forth in this resolution and all previous relevant resolutions and notwithstanding prior understandings, the Council hereby establishes the following revised or additional authorities, which shall be binding upon Iraq, to facilitate their work in Iraq:


UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall determine the composition of their inspection teams and ensure that these teams are composed of the most qualified and experienced experts available;


All UNMOVIC and IAEA personnel shall enjoy the privileges and immunities, corresponding to those of experts on mission, provided in the Convention on Privileges and Immunities of the United Nations and the Agreement on the Privileges and Immunities of the IAEA;


UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have unrestricted rights of entry into and out of Iraq, the right to free, unrestricted, and immediate movement to and from inspection sites, and the right to inspect any sites and buildings, including immediate, unimpeded, unconditional, and unrestricted access to Presidential Sites equal to that at other sites, notwithstanding the provisions of resolution 1154 (1998);


UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to be provided by Iraq the names of all personnel currently and formerly associated with Iraq's chemical, biological, nuclear, and ballistic missile programmes and the associated research, development, and production facilities;


Security of UNMOVIC and IAEA facilities shall be ensured by sufficient UN security guards;


UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to declare, for the purposes of freezing a site to be inspected, exclusion zones, including surrounding areas and transit corridors, in which Iraq will suspend ground and aerial movement so that nothing is changed in or taken out of a site being inspected;


UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the free and unrestricted use and landing of fixed- and rotary-winged aircraft, including manned and unmanned reconnaissance vehicles;


UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right at their sole discretion verifiably to remove, destroy, or render harmless all prohibited weapons, subsystems, components, records, materials, and other related items, and the right to impound or close any facilities or equipment for the production thereof; and


UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to free import and use of equipment or materials for inspections and to seize and export any equipment, materials, or documents taken during inspections, without search of UNMOVIC or IAEA personnel or official or personal baggage;

8. Decides further that Iraq shall not take or threaten hostile acts directed against any representative or personnel of the United Nations or the IAEA or of any Member State taking action to uphold any Council resolution;

9. Requests the Secretary General immediately to notify Iraq of this resolution, which is binding on Iraq; demands that Iraq confirm within seven days of that notification its intention to comply fully with this resolution; and demands further that Iraq cooperate immediately, unconditionally, and actively with UNMOVIC and the IAEA;

10. Requests all Member States to give full support to UNMOVIC and the IAEA in the discharge of their mandates, including by providing any information related to prohibited programmes or other aspects of their mandates, including on Iraqi attempts since 1998 to acquire prohibited items, and by reCommending sites to be inspected, persons to be interviewed, conditions of such interviews, and data to be collected, the results of which shall be reported to the Council by UNMOVIC and the IAEA;

11. Directs the Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC and the Director General of the IAEA to report immediately to the Council any interference by Iraq with inspection activities, as well as any failure by Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations, including its obligations regarding inspections under this resolution;

12. Decides to convene immediately upon receipt of a report in accordance with paragraphs 4 or 11 above, in order to consider the situation and the need for full compliance with all of the relevant Council resolutions in order to secure international peace and security;

13. Recalls, in that context, that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq that it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations;

14. Decides to remain seized of the matter.

Offline crabofix

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« Reply #64 on: April 27, 2003, 09:33:35 AM »
So 1441, indeed warns about it "will face serious consequences".
Now the SC is trying to decide what to do.
(remember, this is a UN resulotion, not a US resolution).
Some of em wants to kick some Iraqian prettythang, some wants to wait and make some more inspections.
When France says that the will lay their Veto, US, together with Britan, takes the whole buisness in their own hands and attacks Iraq.

So they enforced the "seriouse Consequences" that UN had been warning would happend.
Suddenly US is UN?

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #65 on: April 27, 2003, 09:40:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by crabofix
You are wrong, sorry.

By the way, could you just show me the weapons that caused the res. 1441?

quoting Präs. Busk
"Beware, Iraq might have destroyed ther WMDŽs"


We have to go over it again.

1. Iraq invades Kuwait
2. US kicks Iraq out of Kuwait and stops hostilities with Iraq under the conditions CEASE FIRE agreement.
3. Iraq never complied with the cease-fire agreement.

Any US action from that point on is justified under the original UN action and Iraq's non-compliance with the cease-fire agreement.

The point of every other UN resolution and 1441 was to appease the weak minded hand wringers of the world.

Interestingly, 1441 confirms ALL previous resolutions and gave Iraq ONE final chance to prove it had disarmed.

The whole event from Iraqi begining to USA- led end was Iraq's fault.

Oh, and by the way.... the ONLY REASON UN inspectors were allowed back into Iraq was that the USA showed him we have a backbone.  UN resolutions would have NEVER gotten Iraq to do anything other than what it felt like doing.  

I'll show you a weapon banned in 1441 and then you can explain to everyone just how effective UN resolutions have been regarding Iraq.

I'm just glad we have the UN now that N.Korea is an International problem. Now the UN can really save us all again and show us dummies how to keep the world safe .

After all , I'll bet N. Korea has no greater fear than the UN. They are probably shaking in thier boots at the thought of angering the UN.

A dictator knows he's really in trouble once the UN resolutions start pouring out of that useless debating society.

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #66 on: April 27, 2003, 09:45:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by crabofix
So 1441, indeed warns about it "will face serious consequences".
Now the SC is trying to decide what to do.
(remember, this is a UN resulotion, not a US resolution).
Some of em wants to kick some Iraqian prettythang, some wants to wait and make some more inspections.
When France says that the will lay their Veto, US, together with Britan, takes the whole buisness in their own hands and attacks Iraq.

So they enforced the "seriouse Consequences" that UN had been warning would happend.
Suddenly US is UN?


Suddenly the US said enough with the humming and haaaing and saber rattling. The guy's a kook, he's working on developing weapons of mass destruction that he can use on a broader scale that threaten the region's if not the world's stability and safety. He doesn't take us seriously. Some of you may want to give him all the time in the world to comply but that time may get alot shorter than you think if you keep this up. Time to step in and take care of business or close up shop. The resolution supports it. In we go, come if you like or sit on your fingers where you're much more comfortable.

(The part of the evil US member of the security council bent on global conquest was played by Arlo.)

(bows)

Thank you ... thank you very much.

Offline crabofix

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« Reply #67 on: April 27, 2003, 10:07:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
Suddenly the US said enough with the humming and haaaing and saber rattling. The guy's a kook, he's working on developing weapons of mass destruction that he can use on a broader scale that threaten the region's if not the world's stability and safety. He doesn't take us seriously. Some of you may want to give him all the time in the world to comply but that time may get alot shorter than you think if you keep this up. Time to step in and take care of business or close up shop. The resolution supports it. In we go, come if you like or sit on your fingers where you're much more comfortable.

(The part of the evil US member of the security council bent on global conquest was played by Arlo.)

(bows)

Thank you ... thank you very much.


"nosal voice"
Well, its never wrong to slap the fingers of evil dictators.
(aplouse)
But you picked the wrong guy at the wrong time. Should have been done much earlier,
(laughter)
But you wouldŽnt have liked to been caught supplying him with the Chemical weapons that killed a couple of 1000 kurds, now would you?
(aplouse)

(The part of the "justice" bending over was played by crabofix)

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #68 on: April 27, 2003, 10:13:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by crabofix
"nosal voice"
Well, its never wrong to slap the fingers of evil dictators.
(aplouse)
But you picked the wrong guy at the wrong time. Should have been done much earlier,
(laughter)
But you wouldŽnt have liked to been caught supplying him with the Chemical weapons that killed a couple of 1000 kurds, now would you?
(aplouse)

(The part of the "justice" bending over was played by crabofix)


Did UN resolutions ever have an effect on Iraq? Perhapse the UN resolutions got Iraq out of Kuwait? Pardon me, but I believe the US military and the coalition got Iraq out of Kuwait.

I recall Iraq kicked all the UN inspectors out. I also recall that the US military buildup is the only reason inspectors were allowed back into Iraq.  Start to see the pattern here? Iraq only complies when it is forced to by military action.

Seems that your "justice" means to allow Iraq to indefinetley defy the will of the world.

I don't want your justice  thank you.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2003, 10:16:30 AM by NUKE »

Offline crabofix

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« Reply #69 on: April 27, 2003, 10:19:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE

Seems that your "justice" means to allow Iraq to indefinetley defy the will of the world.
I don't want your justice  thank you.



Now, the world didŽnt exactly agree with your war, now did they?
My country did not, I am pretty sure of this.

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #70 on: April 27, 2003, 10:30:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by crabofix
Now, the world didŽnt exactly agree with your war, now did they?
My country did not, I am pretty sure of this.


1441 was unanimous. Just like the UN resolution requiring Iraq to leave Kuwait, they are both just paper without the use of force.


Both problems have now been solved, game over justice done.


So sorry this upsets you.

Offline Maniac

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« Reply #71 on: April 27, 2003, 10:33:14 AM »
Warbirds handle : nr-1 //// -nr-1- //// Maniac

Offline crabofix

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« Reply #72 on: April 27, 2003, 10:33:34 AM »
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Originally posted by NUKE
game over justice done.


correct term would be "game over justice gone"

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #73 on: April 27, 2003, 10:36:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maniac
And the world is still the same as before the war :eek:


minus at least one problem.

Offline Maniac

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« Reply #74 on: April 27, 2003, 10:36:56 AM »
Quote
minus at least one problem.


Can you explain the problem again? please...
Warbirds handle : nr-1 //// -nr-1- //// Maniac