Help revoke Bowling for Columbine's Oscar

[lazs2]

yep... anti gun republicans are shunned by the NRA and ILA..  The ILA and NRA are concerned only with our 2nd ammendment rights.  They make enemies and friends based solely on that.  How is that a threat to anyone?
lazs

[midnight Target]

Feel free to refute any of the facts I stated.

NRA is not a lobby.

I think that is the fact I was plinking with my .22

[funkedup]

OK you winged me.  

[Dune]

Originally posted by funkedup
Beetle like I said, freedom has risks.  I'm more than willing to tolerate an 0.00004 chance of dying by gunfire each year.  Death is inevitable anyways.  And there are many ways to go, which are more likely than gunfire.  If I get shot, my dying words won't be "Damn 2nd ammendment!"  If I get run over by a car, my dying words won't be "Damn internal combustion!"  If I have a heart attack my dying words won't be "Damn corn dogs!"  

Nicely said Funked.  BTW, I think I'll better be able to avoid having a heart attack since I'm not diving in this thread like I do most gun-control ones.  

There is no constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen. It is monstrous if the state fails to protect its residents against such predators but it does not violate the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, or, we suppose, any other provision of the Constitution. The Constitution is a charter of negative liberties; it tells the state to let the people alone; it does not require the federal government or the state to provide services, even so elementary a service as maintaining law and order.
Bowers v. DeVito, 686 F.2d 616 (7th Cir. 1982)

The principle feature of contemporary American liberalism is sanctimoniousness. By loudly denouncing all bad things - war and hunger and date rape - liberals testify to their own terrific goodness. More important, they promote themselves to membership in a self-selecting elite of those who care deeply about such things. People who care a lot are naturally superior to we who don't care any more than we have to. By virtue of this superiority the caring have a moral right to lead the nation. It's a kind of natural aristocracy, and the wonderful thing about this aristocracy is that you don't have to be brave, smart, strong or even lucky to join it, you just have to be liberal. Kidnapping the moral high ground also serves to inflate liberal ranks. People who are, in fact, just kindhearted are told that because they care, they must be liberals, too.
P. J. O'Rourke - Give War a Chance, Introduction (1992)

[beet1e]

Lazs, Funkedup - I might not always agree entirely with what you say, but I appreciate your honesty and candour.

DUNE

I think I'll better be able to avoid having a heart attack since I'm not diving in this thread like I do most gun-control ones.

ROFL!  Know what you mean. Since I've started an ignore list, my blood pressure has dropped!  Hehe, the Spanish Rioja helps.

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by funkedup
Beetle like I said, freedom has risks.  I'm more than willing to tolerate an 0.00004 chance of dying by gunfire each year.  Death is inevitable anyways.  And there are many ways to go, which are more likely than gunfire.  If I get shot, my dying words won't be "Damn 2nd ammendment!"  If I get run over by a car, my dying words won't be "Damn internal combustion!"  If I have a heart attack my dying words won't be "Damn corn dogs!"  

Funkedup,
Nice!!! ~S~!

******************

Amazing that many anti-gun people don't get the fact that law-abiding citizens with guns also PREVENT people from getting shot or further crimes being committed. I wonder if there are statistics for further violence from being committed after a gun is drawn?

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by funkedup
OK you winged me.  

(I may have a few scars here too)

You may return to your base Red Baron, and we both live to fight another day.

[funkedup]

LOL Cheers

[Imp]

Originally posted by funkedup
I never disputed any of those facts.  The "move to Canada" statement was in reference to the much-trumpeted-in-this-thread statistics that Canada offers relative safety from death by gunfire.

Ok, sorry about that, thought you were saying that gun control prevent people from defending themselves.


Lasz, most military weapons are overkill. A guy who defends his home with an M60 is an idiot. Imagine the number of bullet holes in his house. Might as well built a new one.

M16 bullets are designed to go through armor, how many criminals have that?

The right to own firearms carries responsabilities, kids can get hurt when people arent careful. I know it happens once in a while in Canada. The US is probably alot worse.

You have the right to own firearms, but some are not designed for civilian use.

Military weapons should never be owned by civilians. How do you control what they use it for? You just cant.

Freedom is a double edged blade.

[lazs2]

imp... please don't tell me what I can and can'[t do with the .223 nato round.   I can load it so that it will do anything I want it to.  Piercing armor is not one it's strong points tho... piss poor round for that.   I would love to have an M16 in a riot tho.. allmost a perfect weapon for that.  

simply because you have no idea of ballistics or reloading or cartridge versitility is no excuse for you to spout off here..  better that you simply shut up and not prove how ignorant you are.   There is no crime in being ignorant of a subject.. the problem comes in when you try to tell those of us who know about firearms what they are good for.  

Truth is... if you bothered to learn about them you wouldn't be so fearful of em in the first place... it's pretty ironic really.
lazs

[funkedup]

M16 bullets are designed to go through armor, how many criminals have that?

He's right Lazs, we don't need that much penetration.  A UMP45 or MP5/10 should be sufficient for "rioter" control.  Beta C mags of course.

[lord dolf vader]

only people who "control" riots like that are the communist chinese. fire hose would be more fun anyway you can knock the same guy down over and over

[Hooligan]

M16 bullets are designed to go through armor...

LOL the .223 is a VARMINT round.  When was the last time you saw a prairie dog wearing Kevlar?

Hooligan

[wulfie]

Originally posted by Imp
Lasz, most military weapons are overkill. A guy who defends his home with an M60 is an idiot. Imagine the number of bullet holes in his house. Might as well built a new one.

M16 bullets are designed to go through armor, how many criminals have that?

The 5.56 ammunition you could buy in any given store that sells such ammunition is very different from the ammunition you are talking about ('designed to go through armor'). Military issue 5.56x45 ammunition (which has some AP variants) is very tightly controlled. Lot numbers are tracked, spent brass is counted after training, etc. Many civilian weapons chambered in 5.56x45 could not handle firing military 5.56x45 ammunition. The 'designed to go through armor' argument is akin to arguing that certain pistols should be outlawed because there are military/LE 'only' AP rounds available for them. Not a valid argument.

As for M60s, do you know how difficult it is for a civilian to own a fully automatic weapon? Permits, insurance, etc. Very, very resrictive and difficult for your average person to own even a fully automatic 9mm MP5 variant. When was the last time you heard of someone using a fully automatic weapon while commiting a crime where the criminal actually had permits for the weapon?

The bottom line is that people involved in writing books and making movies for a living know that someone who sees their 'product' and does not have personal knolwedge of the topic will often take the 'lessons' that were 'learned' while reading or watching said 'product' and form their entire opinion on a given topic from that one-time exposure to the subject matter. They have a responsibility to at least accurately label the 'product' as fiction or non-fiction. Not everyone has equal access when it comes to getting books published and/or movies produced 'in the mainstream'. The people who have such access have great power over the (on a given topic) uneducated and all too often they are totally lacking in the responsibility that should come hand in hand with such power.

Mike/wulfie

[wulfie]

Originally posted by funkedup
A UMP45

(schlugschlug...schlugschlug.. .schlug...schlug)

FunkedUp: "Wulfie, the whole point of using firearms to break up a riot is to let them know you are shooting at them!"

Wulfie (gleefully crazy grin on his face): "Whoops! CLUMSY ME!"



Mike/wulfie