Help revoke Bowling for Columbine's Oscar

[beet1e]

MiniD

No other way to say it really, and no need to say it another time... so this is the last.

Rgr. You're leaving this thread? Never did get that answer. Just a suggestion that algebra be used to solve a conundrum whose answer is bleedin' obvious. Oh well, don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.

Toodle-Pip.

[funkedup]

Oh well, don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.[/B]

WHERE THE HELL IS MY ROYALTY CHECK????

[beet1e]

Originally posted by funkedup
WHERE THE HELL IS MY ROYALTY CHECK????

ROFL Funked!!!  That was what - WB2.6 1999?

Hey, guess what I heard today? Clue:   Flashlight....Red light!....Neon light.... Stop light!

[Sandman]

Originally posted by funkedup
Tiny is relative.  300,000 over 25 years is 12,000 per year.  That's .004% of the population of the US.  That's pretty tiny to me.

Like I said, .004% is tiny.  I don't know anybody who has been a victim of a gun crime.  I've never seen a gun pulled in public, or any sort of gun crime.  Any amount of statistics you produce are not going to convince me that gun homicides are a problem that is worth relinquishing my first freedom. [/B]

Well... they've managed to justify the drug war with an even smaller figure. IIRC, annual deaths to cocaine is around 3,000 and it's the big killer.


FWIW, AMPAS doesn't select award winners using a popular vote from the masses. If Hardy doesn't like it, he can always choose not to vote for Moore for the American Choice Awards.

[SaburoS]

LOL Sandman,
I just HAD to click on where it said "Don't click this"

[Imp]

The reason Canada has much lower gun violence is simple:

You have to register your guns.

Which means:
If you get really pissed off at somebody and have a gun on you, you wont shoot because the gun is registered to you. Its an incredible concept.

As for criminals: They have to register there guns, so we always know who did it. Another incredible concept.

Two for one for only one billion dollars, what a bargain.

P.S.: Sarcasm intended.

[bowser]

Thanks but I'll take the numbers of the Canadian government's Canadian Firearms Centre over Michael S. Brown…whoever the heck that is.

http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/en/general_public/news_releases/survey-08202002.asp

"...There are approximately 7.9 million firearms in Canada, according to a comprehensive study released today.
The study is based on a national survey undertaken in the autumn of 2001 by GPC Research at the request of the Canadian Firearms Centre. Dr. David Zussman, President of the Public Policy Forum, an independent, non-profit, non-partisan organization, was asked to review the study methodology employed by GPC, as well as the survey's results and findings. The review was conducted by Dr. Zussman and an independent statistical expert appointed by the Forum.
This study provides an updated estimate on the number of firearms in Canada. This objective and independent data will be particularly valuable to the Canadian Firearms Program in monitoring progress as the January 1, 2003 deadline for firearms owners to register all of their firearms approaches.
This estimate was based on a survey of 3,011 of Canada’s 2.3 million firearm owners. The findings are a complementary piece to an earlier GPC Research study in the autumn of 2000, which surveyed 6,145 Canadian households in order to estimate firearm ownership in Canada. At that time, findings indicated that 2 million (17 percent) Canadian households had at least one firearm owner....".

bowser

[Mini D]

Originally posted by beet1e
MiniD  Rgr. You're leaving this thread? Never did get that answer. Just a suggestion that algebra be used to solve a conundrum whose answer is bleedin' obvious. Oh well, don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.

Toodle-Pip.

Never did get that answer.  That's a very good way to put it beet1e.  It has been answered repeatedly, but you will never get it.  That's your own personal choice.

Kudos to the out of context quote too.  Run of the mill for you.

MiniD

[Toad]

Originally posted by Torque
I'd like to see Mr Brown find anything close to 21 million guns in Canada.

Mr. Brown must have talked to

Garry Breitkreuz, MP for Yorkton-Melville

"I’m even giving the government the benefit of the doubt in these calculations," said Breitkreuz. "I used their low-ball estimate of 7 million firearms in Canada. Most reputable sources estimate the number of firearms in Canada at closer to 21 million.

[Toad]

Or, maybe he talked to

National Firearms Association Of Canada

The National Firearms Association has come to conclusion there are approximately 7 million owners with 21 million firearms. The NFA figures were calculated using three different methods.

The NFA figures were calculated using three different methods.

1. There were 1,221,179 restricted firearms in the RCMP registration database FRAS in December 1993. The unrestricted to restricted firearms ratio is at least 20:1. Conservatively that means 24.4 million unrestricted plus 1.2 million restricted firearms. Allowing for errors in the RCMP's FRAS registration system, we strike off 220,000 registered firearms as non-existant, reducing the total to 21 million firearms with 7 million owners.

2. The government's own estimate in December 1976, published as part of its gun control campaign was 6 million owners with 18 million firearms. During hearings on the Campbell bill, officials from the Ministry of Justice testified that the long-term average net annual importation was 190,000 firearms. Therefore, adding 190,000 firearms per year to the 1976 total of 18 million, we get 21.6 million firearms as of December 1993. Subtract 610,000 firearms as an allowance for firearms destroyed, dismantled or worn out and we arrive back at the 21 million figure with 7 million owners.

3. Restricted firearms ownership increased from 861,000 in December 1984 to 1.22 million in December 1993. This is an increase of 41.7% over nine years. Those figures are solid because they are taken from the Annual Report on the Commissioner of the RCMP. The NFA estimates that the 1976 figure for total firearms owned, 18 million increased to 21 million by 1993, representing a total increase of only 16.6% in 17 years. This, obviously, is a very conservative estimate.

None of the above estimates include any figures for illegally imported firearms, which are known to have increased sharply each time restrictive, costly, and/or vague legislation has made legal firearm ownership more complicated, expensive and/or more risky.

[Toad]

But I still can't believe you're not taking the word of the sainted Michael Moore... who is, I believe, the subject of this thread.

I mean a guy who won an OSCAR for a "documentary" on guns said it!

Who ya gonna believe?  

[bowser]

Isn't the Internet wonderful?  You can find statistics to back up just about anything.  Well, you have your sources, I have mine.  It really comes down to whose has more credibility.  You have Mikey and some politician and I have a government agency whose job it is to know how many guns there are in Canada.  We'll let the readers decide.

By the way, even using your numbers, there are more guns per capita in the US.  You do realize that don’t you?

P.S.  I'm not here to defend Michael Moore.  I haven't even seen the documentary.  Unlike most here though, I did not blindly accept his belief that Canadians had more guns.  Why did you?  Do you only agree with him when it suits your argument?

bowser

[Mini D]

Strange bowser... you never listed your source for the information.  You challenged others to come up with numbers and they did, listing their sources.  You then criticize them for blindly believing something.

I find that incredibly ironic.

MiniD

[bowser]

Click the link in my post.

bowser

[Mini D]

Ah.. was looking for the reference where posted the data.

I like the link you posted.  Especially the "less tha 6000 gun owners surveyed" and "estimated" parts.

Give this link a try:

http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/GunsinCanada.htm

See if you can find error in the government sources he cites.  This was not made up data... it was provided.

Once again, you can chose to blindly accept something or you can check it out for yourself.

MiniD