Suiciding the CV en masse! -film, and <S> FrankB and AKPanthr

[BNM]

Originally posted by Toad
LOL!

If it isn't just the "summer hiatus", which I think is the true cause because it's a "historical" phenomenom, the TRUE REASON for any "wave of account cancellations" is because of the near total LACK OF GOOD FIGHTS.

Face it. Being in the Massively Multi-plane Attacking Horde isn't much fun. You have to scratch, scramble and squabble with your own kill-stealing countrymen to get credit for a vulch of the poor outnumbered and lower bastiges trying to defend their territory against hopeless odds. Some fun. Some ACM.  Blah.

And of course, if you happen to be on the receiving end of the Massively Multi-plane Attacking Horde, you have the pleasure of fighting overwhelming odds in aircraft that are usually much lower and at a much lower E state than the attackers. You may shoot one or two down and then spend three or four minutes continually dodging the five guys chasing you before the six, seventh or eighth one gets you.

Face it; the days where you could find a few v few fight are gone now. Unless you stumble into a good CV setup which will only last until the heroes of strategery sink the boat.

And if there's ANY reason accounts are being cancelled other than summer, it's the "steamroller strat" aspect that dominates AH.


IMO.

Truer words were never spoken. I feel exactly the same way.

PS... If I was to call someone a putz, which I rarely do, it'd have to be Yeager. Sheesh... more moronic words were never spoken.

[sax]

Originally posted by beet1e


SAX - in the paragraph you quoted, I was using the word "you" to mean Toad himself!

I know what ya meant , I am just trying to improve your frame rates so's the blackout won't be so bad in your constant loop.

[Boozer]

The only was to reduce the steamroller is to take away the incentive, take away reset perks, hardening targets will only make the suicide gang larger.  But, when there's no good reason to die for a reset, folks will stop trying to die for a reset.. end of the steamroller.
 
 Q: But Booz! what will we do?!? what would our purpose be then if not to reset a map?

 A:  Learn to fly, the map will rotate when it rotates.

[Toad]

There's no quest for "selective realism" in a desire for correct modeling of a gun. And I think just about all of us want the guns, FM's, and hardware in the game as accurately modeled as possible.

So it is with tanks. There was a period in the modeling where aircraft guns were far more damaging to tanks than they should have been. This was fixed, after a long period of "consciousness raising" by some dedicated folks.

Now, tank guns are far more damaging to aircraft than they should be. It'll get fixed but I'm not interested enough to make a crusade out of it. I mentioned it in another forum and let it go. Until you brought it up here. But the damage from the tank pintle gun is incorrect, IMO. As I said, I'll test if anyone is that interested. I've made my statement though and that's really enough for me.

However, I understand your need to twist the discussion to change the frame of reference. It's pretty much your standard tactic.

The gaming issues are your main concern apparently because the entire "strat" issue falls squarely under "gameplay".

It's an area that concerns me little if at all. I'm just looking for a fight; "winning" a war means nothing to me. Because the war never ends, does it? It just starts over.

If anyone is promoting selective realism, it's you. All the things you mention in the last of that post are merely Beet1e once again trying to get other people to play the way HE thinks they should play... they have nothing to do with the realism of the hardware, they deal with the "realism" of the gameplay.

Conga lines? Player choice of tactics.

Steamrollers?  Player choice of tactics.

Suicide runs to the CV? Player choice of tactics.

Suicide fuel porkers? Player choice of tactics.

Planes I kill most  Spit ix, P51D, LA7 and N1K tour after tour? Player choice of planes.

Now, just to put it in a frame of reference you may understand, I think the vast majority of players would complain and campaign against a P-40 that could climb at 5000 FPM, do 500 IAS in level flight at 10,000 feet and outturn a zero. See, that would be a realism issue.

But  flying a Spit IX?

That's a player choice made about a personal preference gameplay issue.

I think only a Generalissimo Playmyway would make a big deal about what another player chooses to fly. And thankfully, we dont' have all that many of those.

[Venger]

Kind of reminded me of the Battle of Leyte Gulf, just sub the Yamato for that cv.

[lazs2]

well.. I see that beetle and hazed and revin are all against suicide bombing but... they have no solution.   they say they have views but don't state em.. they hint at em...  it appears that they want "penalties' for dying..  more do nothingism.  but...

when I suggest something that would work... like perking all bombs over say 100 lbs or 250.... they get upset.   Perhaps they want the AH2 system of rank where if we die we wont get to be "general" with all the repect that doing so earns from all our fellow players and girlfriends.   All I can see is that it will reward timid behavior... steamrollers are nothing but timid behavior.  

I say perk the bombs... drop the perks for a reset... what do the limeys say?
lazs

[Yeager]

PS... If I was to call someone a putz, which I rarely do, it'd have to be Yeager. Sheesh... more moronic words were never spoken.
=====
Two more unfortunate consequences of the mass influx of AW (weekend gamers) into AcesHigh:

The instant community created with the demise of AW has slowly but surely destroyed the original dedicated community.

That same AW community has influenced the game developers to put far more emphasis on making an AW type game as opposed to creating a better more intriguing war simulator.

Call me names if you like, I dont care, but try and put some wortwhile argument into the diatribe.  Make it more enjoyable for me.

[beet1e]

Actually, Lazs, I did make a suggestion (well two actually) just over a year ago. I suggested that the Mission Editor and bardar should be turned off. The expression "steamroller" had not entered the AH BBS vernacular at that time, but if you would reread my thread, you'll see that what I was campaigning against was the insurgence of the Steamroller. Needless to say, Mr. Toad did not think much of my anti-steamroller suggestion, and plonked both feet in the Steamroller camp.

Now Nopoop has got me thinking. When I read Nopoop's post above, I realised that a problem common to both the fite guys and the jabo/building battler/capture guys is the Steamroller. The fite guys complain when their fuel gets porked, and the jabo guys are sitting ducks when carrying bombs. I think the P47D30 climbs at about 1400'/min with full armament, 50% fuel. For the jabo, the cherrypicking steamroller is the bane of our lives. Ah, but one cherrypicker hardly constitutes a steamroller, I hear you say. Of course it does, just as you perceive the lone F6F suicide fuel porker as a steamroller.

So what got all the steamrollering started in the first place? Well, we're always going to have guys who just like to watch things blow up, and have no conscience about vulching/gangbanging etc. What's missing in AH is the stealth mission concept. It simply does not exist. Attack any field, and audible and visual warnings will be given. Base under attack!, trills Yankee. The map begins to flash, and of course bardar has already given the game away to anyone who's in the tower. What's the answer? Well, with no changes to the game, the only way to make that capture becomes that of smashing the field down by force, and sheer numerical supremacy. Please join Mission! Need Tiffies, 110s, P38s, Goons... says the text buffer. And that's pretty much the only way to do it.

And behold, the birth of the Steamroller.

Why do the jabo and fite guys have to be at odds? Jabo can't get in to flatten the town or VH without fiter support, and the threat of capture makes the enemy want to fight, so the fite guys have their work cut out. Sounds like symbiosis to me...

...so why don't we stop arguing about whose way is right, and focus on our mutual enemy, The Steamroller, which can take many different forms. We know what they all look like.

Anti-Steamroller thread from last year

[lazs2]

I agree with toad... to turn off the dar makes it even worse.

The steamroller is nothing more than a bunch of newbies afraid of a fite and the addition of the "missun" planner..  the people who cant fly well still want to participate... they do it by joining the overwhelming numbers... so long as there is a missun planner and some reason to steamroller then it will happen.  A surprise attack does not interest me in the least... from either end of the "surprise".

the problem with the radar is that the fields are so far apart on some maps that if you head toward what looks like a good fite.... by the time you get there... it is anything but.
lazs

[beet1e]

No, don't turn off the radar. Keep that. (But I would do away with the idiotic way in which it sometimes shows friends but not enemies.) It's the bardar I was talking about. The individual fields would still have radar, but you'd be able to come in under it. Folks say that bardar does not work for planes below 500' but I'm not so sure. In any case the flashing map and verbal warning give the game away long before an attacker arrives.

As for finding fights, they're always going to be on the frontier. I've always found that if attempting a capture, the fight finds me.

You can't perk the bombs. How would anyone be able to earn perk points to be able to bomb, if they were disallowed to begin with?

[Toad]

Here's the basic conceptual difference that you just dont' seem to grasp:

Guys like myself (and Laz and Nopoop, I think) don't give a fig what YOU do in the game. I just come for the action, the ACM, the shooting... the fight's the thing. All I want is an opportunity to fight.

This bears repeating: I don't care what YOU do in the game.


Now, it seems to me that you spend an inordinate amount of time trying to devise gameplay ideas that would make people fly YOUR way. In short, you DO care what other folks do in the game. You want some sort of "organization", etc., etc., etc.

There's the difference in a nutshell. I don't care what other folks are doing. I don't care about "winning the war". I don't care about base capture. I just want A2A engagements.

You, OTOH, appear to care mightily about those "strategic gameplay issues".

Now... it boils down to minding you own business, really.

I hope AH2, with the "mission" thing, satisfies your need for "organization". I hope you and all the others like you love it so bloody much that you live in the mission arena.

Think of this: If HT thought the "organization", "strategy", "winning the war", "base capture" ideas were so important that EVERYONE must play that way, the MA WOULD NOT be the way it is right now.

Right now, everyone is free to choose the thing they like to do most. There is no formal structure.

HTC is making a formally structured arena just for guys like you.

So, why don't you give it a rest and see how that turns out for you? If I understand the concept correctly, the mission arena will force people to play the way you think they should play.

So, rejoice that your day of deliverance from unwashed folks like myself is at hand.

[beet1e]

Bufo Marinus!!!!  I take it all the above was directed at me.

You'll never guess what I did tonight. I was in Tank Town in a PNZR. I got bombed by a P47, but then I re-upped, and guess what? I shot him down - with my pintle!!!    Oh nooooo.... not the pintle!... (But that's OK - you did say you don't care what I do in the game! ger> Just imagine Lawrence Olivier and Dustin Hoffman in "Marathon Man". Instead of asking "Is it safe?", he could ask "The turret, or the pintle?". I'm sure Dustin would prefer the turret! Even easier than choosing between a dental pick and oil of cloves - LOL.

I'll have you know I haven't dropped one all night - bomb, that is. I was tearing things up with my CHOG instead. All in a good cause - field defence. I didn't die a single death all session, but got plenty of kills. But guess what? There was a very well planned attack by a 110 squad. In one pass, they bombed all three of our fiter hangars! The temerity of it! Suddenly, our choices were limited! Unthinkable! In the morning, I'll be sure to compose a letter to HTC, requesting that such outrageous liberties be programmed out of the game.

And now, it is late, and Mother is coming in the morning in her new car. Hehe, it's a VW - I recommended it to her.

I shall be tied up for the next few days, so I'll say au revoir, and see you next match!

Toodle-Pip!

[Toad]

See, you are learning.

In the morning, I'll be sure to compose a letter to HTC, requesting that such outrageous liberties be programmed out of the game.

A perfect illustration of the difference between you and I.

I wouldn't care what they did; if all the FH's went down, I'd just move to another base.

You are moved to take pen in hand and attempt to convince HTC to make them play your way.

Enjoy the mission arena, Generalissimo.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Mr. Toad
I wouldn't care what they did; if all the FH's went down, I'd just move to another base.

Indeed! I agree entirely. The simple solutions are often the best. Makes you wonder why such a fuss has been made about the suicide fuel porker.

[Yeager]

The suicide porker cheapens the whole experience.