May I be a voice of calm and reason? (long but give it a read)

[PtoJG2]

Christ!!! Now y'all are fighting over word usage. This is ridiculous.

The games are not in competition with each other. I held accounts in both games for a while back in the early part of this year. I like them both but I can't budget them both in anymore and one had to go. Does it matter which one I stayed with??? Not really. As soon as I can muster up the money to handle both of them again, I will play both.

Once people get it out of their heads that the games are not competing for the same player base, then the faster we can get through stuff like this. AH and WWIIOL are two different games. They both have things that the other doesn't have...so what?!?

Everyone, both communities, need to get off their high horses and realize that the gaming community as a whole is a lot bigger than the little backyard in which they play.

Sheesh!!! Fighting over words. Will it ever stop?

[Dowding]

I agree Nash. And I should know.

What a stupid thread. I like the snipe at Skuzzy's moderation policy from Killer though. What's with that? Surely it's best to remain aloof in these matters as a developer and not give them any kind of credance. The 'hey guys, check in at the AH BBS and stir it up' threads in WW2OL are not constructive in the slightest.

WW2OL will always be looked badly by many people. Including me. We feel we were ripped off. That's a fact and the WW2OL door-stepping advertising executives should take that into account.

[Nash]

Reminds me of these guys...

[straffo]

As the other thread is closed I'll answer here

Originally posted by ZeroAce
The MS406 won't be designed for a while because it's simply not any better than what the French already have (the H-75, Dewontine 520, and H-81).

Unforunately CRS is not yet at the stage in development where they can build every variant and every aircraft just because it participated.

They have been managing their resources to focus on the equipment that will be bring something unique or useful to the table.

I'm don't really care of the ressources availlable to CRS.
When I bought my WWIIol box some years ago it was because of the French campaign , it have a huge appeal for me (I'm french you know ...)
The exclusion of the Ms406 is plain wrong ,  imagine a  BoB setup without the Hurrican ?
It sound bad no ?

I'm not talking about joystick feel.

Nuance in the flight model are the little things about a planes performance that you just can't get from a table...

In a table based FM like CSFM2, they had to input things like the corsairs spin characteristics based on pure anecdotal evidence.

With a physics based FM, those spin characteristics would happen on their own, and there would be no guessing involved or room for error if your psychics were correct.

I work daily with both approach depending of the context I'll choose one or the other method.

Building a physical engine can be time consuming and sometime bad for the performances and as you said a lookup table can be unprecise but fast ...

The method are not exclusive to each other you can use both in one application provided you do it right ,the customer don't really care of the method : he want the job done in time with the quality he want ... he don't really care how I do ...

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Nash
I asked this a while back... am simply curious: Hortlund - I vaguely remember reading you saying that you're 28ish or 29ish...

This so? How old are you?

Yup, I'm 29. And I suspect Airhead is ..eh a bit older (from comments he's made on Vietnam in the past).

But since he acted like a small child when he rolled his eyes at me, I had treat him as such.

[Nash]

Ah 29. I *knew* I read that somewhere. Cool - thanks Hortlund.

[Furball]

You guys are pretty pathetic bickering over the 2 games.

I wanted to give WWIIOL a try, so i downloaded the free trial last night.  I found the community there most helpful, 2 people i am hopefully going to teach AH after they spent so much time helping me.

As for the game - the ground warfare there is brilliant, its far far ahead of Aces High. But air combat there is an absolute joke, how the WWIIOL cheerleaders we get here can say the FM and air combat there is better than AH is laughable.

If you like ground combat, wwiionline is for you.  But for air combat and ship engagements - Aces high is so much better.

[Imsneaky]

Furball,

Being honest I have to agree with you.  I think the Rats have developed a system that is brilliant.  I think the fact that so many things were being tasked on your computer, so many calculations that the bugs have not all been worked out.  I feel game killing bugs are gone but now the Rats have been able to afford better debugging software and they are finding the quiks in the system at a very fast rate.

I'm talking little stuff like though like what is causing an aircraft to not take damage on one elevator to the extent that it should.

I think WWIIOL has a briliant ground game and I feel that the airwar is really coming along now.  I think it was all the physics calculations going on in every second as you fly with WWIIOL that made the airwar lag a bit in dev speed.

It will get there to the point that it is perfectly tuned.  As far as the game play itself the biggest problem with the airwar is that it all resembles the Easter front where most of the combat is low level.

With the addition of the factories we will see the battle moved up to 20,000 feet instantly.  That will change air combat in WWIIOL instantly and for the better.  Wether it is better than AH at that point, who knows and who cares.  I am seriously thinking of adding AH when my new computer is done but only because it is so different than WWIIOL.

It is the same in some ways but it is also different.   That is ok and good in my mind.  By everything I have understood by reading stuff by people and by what my friend has told me and by my own experiences, both games have great points and weak points.

My own experiences in the air in WWIIOL have shown that the airwar can at times suck and at times be completely brilliant.   Depends on the situation.  My favorites have been getting high enough to deal with the high flying Bf109-f4.  those guys hate it when the can't BnZ ya to death.

[OIO]

Furball, play a bit longer, you will begin to notice the ground war is just tank quake.

Its a matter of incompetent design imo. They model the tanks, the infantry, the support guns... which end up being mechwarrior 1940-1 . Infantry is useless for attacking or defending, its gotten to the point where an "attack" means 20 tanks and 3 infantry guys..the tanks to kill everything and the infantry to hop off the tanks and take  a flag. And of course, CRS cannot code an infantry unit capable of killing a tank from range because it'd make 90% of their costumer base leave if they started to get killed in their tanks by someone hiding inside a building. You know, sort of like what the infantry players did a long time ago when tanks would kill them from beyond visual range with sniperscoped dispersionless tank machineguns.

Dont get me wrong, the tank warfare IS fun. But thats all it is. Its not a WW2 simulation, its actually the same thing as AH pzr vs pzr but just slap a few trees and ground clutter on the terrain.

I would go back to WW2OL if they ever added a PIAT/ATR infantry unit and if they made support guns have their own towing vehicles (kinda moronic how they force a person to drive for someone else who is playing a vastly underpowered, immobile and extremely vulnerable gun while they let 1 person man a fast, mobile, very well protected, powerfully armed tank..and the driver having no fun at all. Having had the chance of borrowing a friend's account, I can tell you the bofors/88/AT guns are VERY fun and effective units when you can tow them yourself... but CRS for some reason does not allow that. Its depressing to see incompetent coding, incompetent game design and incompetent costumer service all rolled into the one game with tremendous potential )

[Imsneaky]

As for the rest of the guys here who just like to flame, it seems that you are only interested in flaming and venting feelings.

I still see nothing wrong with what Ring did, aside from not putting it in the right forum.  However I would like to point out that the responses toward him were not that he postd in the wrong forum but rather that WWIIOL sucked.  So I guess the real issue was your feelings regarding WWIIOL not where he posted it.  Where he posted it is actually a side issue for you to pile on to.   Sad.

I guess I don't feel what he did is so bad because as I said we do it all the time on our forums.  people who play WWIIOL have talked about and outright pimped other games from day one on the WWIIOL forums.

Heck I remember when our forums were not closed and people were posting links to Op Flash, and some were saying that it was the end of WWIIOL.  Well it wasn't but more importantly people didn't flame the poster for advertising another game.  They did of course defend WWIIOL by simply saying that they thought WWIIOL would in fact out live Op Flash.  It did.

If anything we should understand that it is ok to keep the names of both our games in the spot light as great games deserve.  Both are great games but both are looked upon as inconsequential old games past their prime by the gaming magazines.  Now that is the real danger.

Let me also tell you about another danger out there.  I know people who see our two games and all MMolg's as a danger.  A danger?  Yes, they see them as bad news because the could signal the future of all the best games being pay to play.  Of course I never pass up a chance to point out that I think that time has already come.

The point is these people want to see these games fail.  All pay to play games.  They don't want it to catch on too big.  They fear being shut out and restricted.

What I would love to see for instance would be the single game producers morphing into larger services.  In otherwords say WWIIOL, AH and Warbirds all colaberaitng to offer a package deal.  I think in the end it would pay off big if a whole lot more people got involved.  People would actually feel they are gettingmore for their money.

I think this is the future anyway.  i think gaming networks will eventually resemble a cable tv service.

I think it will be full of choices even if thse choices end up costing a bit more than it does now for one game.

[Sparrow]

Sounds like a case of reading too much of Bilton's droppings OIO.

The infantry came can stand improvements of course. However infantry battles are not few and far between. Aye, sometimes they may only occur because both sides are attempting to race fresh supplies of aa/at guns and tanks into the battle. However at other times it is quite intentional to have an infantry only assault. With the changes to third person infantry, including the ability to see when someone is hit, aiming or reloading,  the infantry game really has come along way in the fun factor. Unfortunately some people on our forums have based their entire existence off bashing CRS' efforts on infantry so they are not about to admit this. They just harp on something else, go figure. I would love to see the ground broken up a bit more vs berms and dropping down more of the bushes, etc but then again I also enjoy being in a big infantry battle at 30+ fps.

As far as the air component of the game goes. I personally enjoy wwiionline for it's better air to ground fidelity, imo, than aces high. I find all the talk about how the FM is so borked to be funny. Then again I guess both sims can roll out real life pilots who claim one or the other is superior. I just know which one I like the handling of better. Regardless have fun with Aces High and I'll have fun with wwiionline and check out AH every so often.

cheers.

[Curval]

For all the yapping about how great a community WW2OL has...you should be aware that certain members of the community were responsible for me leaving the game.

I wrote a post protesting the ridiculous armour strength of the Char.  I was jumped on and posts slamming me appeared all over the BBS.

I wrote a response in one of them asking the perpetrator why he was being such a d***head and his response was "You are still here?  Go away."

I wrote to CRS and asked them to do something about this guy saying that members of the community were driving people away from the game.  They seemed to side with him as I heard nothing more about the matter.

So, I left and haven't been back.

I know every BBS has its fair share of idiots...but those idiots are usually brought into line by administrators etc.  Not so in my case.

[Airhead]

Originally posted by SunKing
Well Airhead, obviously you have something against me. This thread and my cable thread kinda prove that. Funny how I agree with Hortlund yet you bash me and not him. Afraid of insulting the vets are we?

SunKing, I apologize for my past nastiness. The tit for tat we've been engaged in is hereby officially over. Anyway I don't like bashing Hortlund because we have cyber sex every Thursday evening- that and he bashes himself quite often.

Life has been stressing me out lately- the Franchise Tax Board wants to do a full audit on me, my house has been on the market for months and still no good offers,I owe the IRS another 7800.00 in income tax, I lost my largest client so I have to actually solicit for work, my mother in law is coming to visit for a week, my daughter came home with a tattoo on her back and her new boyfriend has a pierced tounge. Look up stress in the dictionary right now to see my picture.

Far West is good right now cause it's full and during the week  there's hardly nobody there. We'll hit the river later in the summer, once the resivors are too low for safe boating. Lincoln might be out of the way but you should cruise up just to see how quickly urban sprawl has spread to the countryside- in fact Lincoln is a traffic jam on most weekends. By all means c'mon up for a ski or a wakeboard, only rule is no alcohol cause I had to quit drinking and misery loves company.

Anyway I apologize, in spite of what's been posted on bbs I've never met a AW or AH player (over 20 so far) I haven't liked. I'm sure if we met face to face the stark contrast of black on white we type here would be softened with a handshake and a laugh. As Dale says, it's time to keep it somewhat civil.

[Imsneaky]

Curval,

I'm sorry that happened.  I do admit that we have people that slam others.  Sad that it happens.

The difference I saw was that people advertise games on our boards all the time.  The did it before our forums were closed We don't jump them like people get jumped when the post about WWIIOL.

My thoughts are that if you don't like the game that's fine but don't assume that you speak for everyone on your boards.  If we get a forum or two opened up to you and you come to our forums and advertise AH and I flame you and several other guys flame you, are we skokesmen for the 15,000 players who play WWIIOL.

Would we be right for flaming you in the first place?  If we have two forums opened up to you, one an OT forum and one a Q&A about WWIIOL would we be right to flame you for posting in the WWIIOL Q&A forum? Would it maybe just be better to PM a mod and say, "hey check out this thread, it needs to be moved to the OT forum."

The fact is that we at WWIIOL forums aren't perfect but we don't flame people for talking about nor advertaising a game the way Ring was flamed here.  Even if they religiously advertise the game as some have done with certain games on our boards.

I guess not being used to that made it stand out to me.

[Lance]

I called you WWIIOLers a bunch of names in the other thread.  I would apologize and say I didn't mean it, but I'd be lying, so I'll spare you the hypocrisy.  Suffice it to say that I don't like your methods, and so I don't like you.  Not all of you, but the majority.  

The big difference between whatever discussions there have been on the WWIIOL boards about AH and the discussions that have occured here regarding WWIIOL are this:  There, everyone involved has an account and supports WWIIOL.  They are on the BBS because they have an interest in that game.  They participate in many threads outside of the one that talks about AH.  If they don't, then everything I say about you applies to them as well.  Here, many of you have no real interest in AH.  You are here only to promote WWIIOL.  All of your posts come in threads talking about the wonders of WWIIOL.  This nebulous "I was thinking of trying AH" interest that some of you profess seems nothing if not feigned.

I couldn't care less about WWIIOLer sensitivities.  I am not inserting myself into your community.  You are inserting yourself into this one.  It is your responsibility to conform to whatever rules of etiquette exist here.  If I was posting over there, the roles would be reversed.  That most of you don't give a **** is just another indicator that you have no real interest in this game or bbs beyond its ability to serve as a promotional opportunity for WWIIOL.

Which, along with your zombie-like persistence, is why I see you as virtual Amway salesmen, bbs telemarketers and eHari Krishnas.  You are ringing the doorbells on HTC street for no reason than to try and sell us something.  Is it any wonder that you get some doors slammed in your face?