May I be a voice of calm and reason? (long but give it a read)

[Imsneaky]

Originally posted by Airhead
Life has been stressing me out lately- the Franchise Tax Board wants to do a full audit on me, my house has been on the market for months and still no good offers,I owe the IRS another 7800.00 in income tax, I lost my largest client so I have to actually solicit for work, my mother in law is coming to visit for a week, my daughter came home with a tattoo on her back and her new boyfriend has a pierced tounge. Look up stress in the dictionary right now to see my picture.

Thanks man, all the stress I've got in my life and now I have to deal with your problems too!!! I think I'll go slash my wrists!  

Originally posted by Airhead
As Dale says, it's time to keep it somewhat civil.

That's all I'm saying, we aren't perfect and neither are you guys but maybe we could be a little more civil and maybe even have some friendly matches in IL2:FB.  Maybe a squad that plays both would emerge and what in the world could be better as we would see the best and worst of both games and be in a good position to offer insights that could help improve the games.

That was what Killer was talking about when he said the Sim community was better off when it was a closer knit community.  That was an eye opener, the Dev's want our business but they don't want Psychotic stalking fanboys.  They aren't going to slash their wrists if we get along a little better.  They aren't going to kill themselves if some of us play both games.  I dare say that would enhance the communities and make the Dev's quite happy as both games would have a player increase.

Maybe if I join AH I will try to organize the players that play both games into a dedicated Allied (Allies need help) air squad in WWWIIOL and a tight knit squad in AH with squad nights each week in both games.

[Mathman]

Lance (who the **** is he anyway?) hit the nail on the head.  The problem arrizes because of who is posting this stuff.  If someone who has been around here for awhile posted the "hey, look, WW2OL has a free trial for you to try" thread, they would not have been flamed.  What's more, if they even started to talk about the good things that are going on over there, they probably would have created a much more constructive discussion.

The problem is not what is being said, but who is saying it.  Anyone can sign up for and post to this board, regardless of whether they actually pay or play AH.  This is not the case with WW2OL.  Who posts the "ads" over in their forums for the various games?  Seeing as I would have to subscribe to the game to be able to post, chances are it isn't me (or any other outsider).  That is what it boils down to.  People are naturally going to be putoff by some stranger coming around extolling the virtues of the new wonder elixir that will cure all.

How about this, when the CRS/WW2OL/Playnet/whatever forums are open for others to join and post to, then you can come over here.  Otherwise, you are just pissing into the wind trying to get people here to join your game after the problems that many of them and/or their friends have had with WW2OL in spite of any dramatic enhancements that have occured in the past 2 years.

[Imsneaky]

Well the mysterious AH guy flaming on the WWIIOL boards comes here to expose who he is.  LOL

Well seriously guy I'm not about to lend credence to a single thing you say since unlike every single WWIIOLer who came her and used their WWIIOL name here, you went to WWIIOL's boards and used a different name.  Suspect to say the least.

I have learned what I came here to learn.  There are some very good people on these boards.  There are also some total idiots.  I cna deal with the idiots as long as their are a few reasonable people here.   to those who are mature enough to not try to hide behind anonymity while they launch verbal insults.

As for sparing us the hypocrasy it's too late, you were already a hypocryte when you went to the WWIIOL boards and did exactly what you accused the WWIIOLers of doing only a lot worse.  Deny it and I'll post a link to it and let those in your community decide.  Some of the die hard flamers will support you but It is the voices of the moderates that will mean anything.

[Mathman]

Originally posted by Imsneaky
Well the mysterious AH guy flaming on the WWIIOL boards comes here to expose who he is.  LOL

Well, if you are talking about me, you are wrong.  If you are talking about Lance, I know he didn't go over there.  The thread he is referring to where he insulted you is the thread that was locked over here.  Search the thread and you will see what he is referring to.

[Airhead]

Chauncey said...

so let me get this straight,you'd outright ban us because we play a different game and mention it once or twice?

Damn straight. If I own Mel's Diner and you camp in my lobby urging my patrons to eat at Joe's I'd toss you out.

like i said aces high has been mentioned on our forums many times and no one ever gives this kind of hostile response,its completely retarded.

That's cause all the people over there who discuss AH are WW2OL players. I have no doubt you're all in agreement on AH.

in the other thread i already mentioned the very good reasons only subscribers can posto n our boards.

The real reason non-subscribers can't post is because CRS doesn't want negative comments about their game. Now I wonder why that's a concern for them yet HTC's bbs are generally free of people who come in for the sole purpose of attacking HTC's product?

the mods are already over worked,just during this free trial there have been a few dozen free trial accounts made for the sole purpose of disrupting and spamming.

CRS should hire Skuzzy. He manages to babysit us quite well plus he still has time to do his "real" job. Not to mention that he'll work for beer...

if anyone could post this would be non stop 24/7 and our forums would be shut down or be rendered comepletely useless.

By "anyone" do you mean disgruntled former players? Intresting how the problems you have on your boards don't happen here...unless we get visited by a group of WW2OL fanbois, like now.

i wish we'd atleast have a single forum though where non subscribers could post.

Wish in one hand and poop in the other and tell me which one fills up first. In the meantime feel free to discuss WW2OL on CheckSix.Net or Furball Central- that way we can flame ya without emberassing HTC.

 it started out as just a simple "hi there hey wwIIol is offering a free trial".

Yup- it started out as a commercial for a rival product in Dale's living room.

you guys started to spew lies about wwIIol and insult our playerbase and the devs directly,so we felt the need to put forth the facts so a player can make his own decision.

I thought it was more back and forth, but if you see it as entirely one way then that speaks more of your bias than anything else. Whatever, the thread got locked because of misinformation distributed by WW2OL players concerning the way AH's flight modeling is done.

also notice that we kept it civil while many AH players were using obscenities and personal insults rather then maturely discussing it.

We have an obsenity filter here- we call it the "BGBMAW  squelcher." I'm sorry, though, if I said anything that hurt the feelings of our WW2OL "guests."

there you go with that only 1 possible game mentality,i mean no one can play both right?
no one expected you to all quit,but maybe ring was hoping some people would find it interesting.

For the vast majority of players only one sim is possible due to time and/or money constraints. In fact it was you guys who were talking about your superior flight modeling which shows you indeed recognize the competivive nature of flight sims and the limited audience for them. To suggest otherwise is like suggesting Toyota and Honda aren't in competition with each other.

you are assuming some sinister intent.

No, I just recognize this for what it is- an attempt to attract players to your game. It's not sinister, it's just a commercial. .

if your game is so great why do you feel so threatend about us stating the facts about our game?

If YOUR Game is so great then why are "outsiders" banned from discussing it on your boards? Oh yeah- the overworked moderator theory. Gee, with ten thousand subscribers at twelve fifty a pop you'd think CRS could afford another moderator.

the landing on water is that big a deal to you?

Not if my plane has floats on it. Otherwise it should sink. Where is this "more realistic modeling" you boast about if planes can taxi up to boats and have a Mechwarrior-type battle?

i never even noticed that you could because ive never tried,the only reason its not fixed yet is cause its not important right now,it doesnt effect the game in any way.

Now THAT statement makes me want to try out WW2OL- floating planes are insignificant in the face of all the other bugs and glitches with the game. What you're saying is that WW2OL is far far far from complete and is still basically in Beta.

[lazs2]

do they have that working on their flight and vehicle modeling still or have they decided to use real data yet?
lazs

[Imsneaky]

Originally posted by Mathman
Lance (who the **** is he anyway?) hit the nail on the head.  The problem arrizes because of who is posting this stuff.  If someone who has been around here for awhile posted the "hey, look, WW2OL has a free trial for you to try" thread, they would not have been flamed.  What's more, if they even started to talk about the good things that are going on over there, they probably would have created a much more constructive discussion.

The problem is not what is being said, but who is saying it.  Anyone can sign up for and post to this board, regardless of whether they actually pay or play AH.  This is not the case with WW2OL.  Who posts the "ads" over in their forums for the various games?  Seeing as I would have to subscribe to the game to be able to post, chances are it isn't me (or any other outsider).  That is what it boils down to.  People are naturally going to be putoff by some stranger coming around extolling the virtues of the new wonder elixir that will cure all.

How about this, when the CRS/WW2OL/Playnet/whatever forums are open for others to join and post to, then you can come over here.  Otherwise, you are just pissing into the wind trying to get people here to join your game after the problems that many of them and/or their friends have had with WW2OL in spite of any drmamtic enhancements that have occured in the past 2 years.

this is where you are wrong, WWIIOL's boards were not always exclusive to WWIIOL players.  Even before the boards were exclusive people who weren't signed up posted ads for other games.  Sometimes it was ex-players sometimes it was someone who had no interest in WWIIOL.  We knew this because they would bash WWIIOL for the bad launch.  Funny that didn't bother us.  Even Blair posted links to other games.  Those were the few threads Blair was involved in that didn't turn into flame fests.

But there is the point.  We did have Blair.  Feel thankful that you didn't have Blair in your game and forums.  I can only tell you to take the 10 worst flames against you on these boards, up the volume then multiply the number of those flames by 1000 and you start to get the idea of why the community to call for the forums to be restricted to subscribers only.

It wasn't to keep you out, it was to keep Blair out since he was banned from the game.  We thought it was a fool proof idea but we didn't think about the consequences.  We also didn't realize that Blair would go out and buy up a bunch of discount copies of the game to get access to the forum and then create multiple free trial accounts to access the boards.

Seriously guys it wasn't to keep you guys out.  If anything we would welcome you guys to come and speak about your game and any other game you wish.  We are just gamers wholove games.  Like I said, I would welcome it because it never hurts to learn about a game or a new promotion it is doing.  I don't have to take advantage of it just because someone posted it.

I do like people talking about there games for a few reasons.  I get a better idea of what the game is like than if a Magazine reviewer pops his head into the game for a day or two.  Seriously if a PC Gamer staff guy came to review Ah how long would he have to spend  in the game to give a true assesment of the game.

If the game is weak and shallow it won't take long to review it.  However if the game is deep and involving it will take more time than he is willing to spend.  So I would rather hear from people that know the game inside and out.

So the point is that you are sensitive because it is WWIIOLers telling you about the game and only came to your board to tell you about the game.  I and many other WWIIOLers welcome you to talk about your game.  I'll give you this much, I will put actions where my mouth is.  I will ask that CRS make the OT forum a public forum and I will ask that they create a new public forum called WWIIOL Q&A.

I can also tell you that if you come to our boards and advertise the free trial of AH I will support you and I will even defend you if attacked just as I have been defended by some mature folks here

[Lance]

Heh!  Now this should be good for some laughs.  I deny it.  I swear to George Bush that I have not been to the WWIIOL boards since I was a beta tester however long ago that was.  Please post your proof, it will only add to the hilarity.

As for hiding behind the internet, I don't.  I would call you a low-rent Amway-salesman wanna-be and tell you to **** off in person if you accosted me on the street and kept repeatedly trying to get me to do something that I didn't want to do.  Funny, I have never had that happen, though.  Perhaps it is you all that are hiding behind the anonymity of the internet with your incessant sales pitches?

Gordo
Fat Drunk Bastards

[Imsneaky]

Originally posted by Mathman
Well, if you are talking about me, you are wrong.  If you are talking about Lance, I know he didn't go over there.  The thread he is referring to where he insulted you is the thread that was locked over here.  Search the thread and you will see what he is referring to.

I apologize, I read his post again just now.  I took his statement to mean he was in the other "WWIIOL" thread.

Being honest i wouldn't doubt if it were Blair again.  He is obsessed and I hope he never tries AH as I wouldn't wish that on you guys ever.

[Imsneaky]

Originally posted by Lance
Heh!  Now this should be good for some laughs.  I deny it.  I swear to George Bush that I have not been to the WWIIOL boards since I was a beta tester however long ago that was.  Please post your proof, it will only add to the hilarity.

As for hiding behind the internet, I don't.  I would call you a low-rent Amway-salesman wanna-be and tell you to **** off in person if you accosted me on the street and kept repeatedly trying to get me to do something that I didn't want to do.  Funny, I have never had that happen, though.  Perhaps it is you all that are hiding behind the anonymity of the internet with your incessant sales pitches?

Gordo
Fat Drunk Bastards

You like G.W. that much?  Well maybe we have something in common after all.  I love the guy as a Pres.

As for the rest you have to understand that the billboards are a public place.  You don't have to be rude.  See the fact is that the thread itself is not your home.  I mean you act as if Ring is an Amway salesman pounding on your door.  Actually it is more like him being in a mall and you running up to a booth to swear at him.

See the point is that you have to click on the thread to be exposed to it.  If you don't like what you see you go to another store in the mall by exiting the thread.  You don't have to go back to the Amway store if you don't like Amway, right?  If you happen to walk inot an Amway store not knowing it was an Amway store because it didn't say Amway on the front you can simply exit the store when you discover that it is indeed an Amway store right?  nobody is forcing you to enter the thread or stay there when you don't like the topic.  Right?

[Airhead]

(looking suspiciously at imsneaky) What ya'all think about the French over there at WW2OL? (Sorry Straffo, couldn't resist)

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Airhead
I don't like bashing Hortlund because we have cyber sex every Thursday evening- that and he bashes himself quite often.

You bastard!! You promised to keep that a secret! Well, I guess our encounters on the range channel in the tower at a1 on the Baltic map is officially over then.

btw I faked every one you bastard!

[Imsneaky]

Originally posted by Airhead
(looking suspiciously at imsneaky) What ya'all think about the French over there at WW2OL? (Sorry Straffo, couldn't resist)

Well, we Allied have to decide between playing the British Expetionary Forces or the Freedom Forces.

Sorry but Freedom is the only word that starts with Fre that you will get us to say.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

like i said aces high has been mentioned on our forums many times and no one ever gives this kind of hostile response,its completely retarded.

Oooohhhhh bulltoejam! I call bulltoejam ref!!! Bulllllllllsssssshhhhhhhheeee eeeeeiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttttt ttt!!!!!!

Maybe not recently, since the playnet forums are closed to the public... but when those boards were public, it looked like a rabid 15 year old with turrets got loose over there.
-SW

[Imsneaky]

Not where other games were concerned.  believe me the most serious flaming was with Blair.

Like I said, I heard about AH there and nobody flamed it.  people did point out differences, some good and some bad. But it wasn't flaming.

One thing I can remember as bad was that AH didn't have infantry at all and the damage model was not as deep.

I do remember that it was mentioned that the flightmodel was more polished (not a better or more intense system just more polished) but that they felt the WWIIOL model would eventually surpass it once the bugs were worked out.  Other good things were that AH had more aircraft and ships.  I believe someone sadi you guys could put squadron logos on the planes too, not sure.  That was considered very cool.  Maybe that was IL2.

I don't call this flaming.  They expressed opinions good and bad about both WWIIOL and AH.

I can honestly say though that it will depend on the attitude of the posters.  Flames will be met with flames.  However Ring's post would not have met with a flame.

I'll give you an example in the next post as I can use the pad....eeerrrmmm...I mean I don't want this post to get too long.