k/t needs to be taken with a pinch of NaCl

[beet1e]

hehe, Slapshot. OK, I can tell you are a reasonable guy.

To be honest, I don't care if they perk the LA7 or not any more. I just feel that arena balance is important. So if we're to have guys whine about suicide fuel porker, and clamour for gameplay changes to favour furballers, so must we have whines about the LA7 opportunist goon killer, and point out where the strat players' lot could be improved. The two whine types cancel eachother out, so hopefully HTC will strike the right balance, and change nothing!

I was thinking about what you said (was it you?) who quoted Drex's sig - about not limiting the planes. I actually believe that by NOT having an RPS, we limit the planes. People won't want to fly the early planes with an arena full of P51/LA7/YAK etc. I've got no axe to grind there either. I didn't like early war - preferred midwar.

As for SFP, AKCurly's thread contains some interesting ideas.

[muckmaw]

Honest question:

If the LA-7, Spit, Niki and Pony are not "uber" (and I'm not saying they are) why do these 4 planes account for 24.54% of the Kills in the MA and 22.4% of the deaths?

I can see the spit being popular. Well known history, cannon armament, good turn radius.

I can see the pony, as it has a fan base.

So if the Niki and the LA are not anything special, why do they account for so much arena usage? They even have the same K/D ratio at 1.22.

Personally, the only plane I truly fear is the one with a skilled pilot in it.

But I am really curious why these 4 planes get so much play.

I would not mind seeing these guys perked if it meant a more diverse arena. I, like many am tired of fighting the same 4 planes over and over.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by muckmaw
I would not mind seeing these guys perked if it meant a more diverse arena. I, like many am tired of fighting the same 4 planes over and over.
 

My thoughts exactly.

I don't see why the Jug can't be more popular. Well I did, until tonight. The Jug has a history of combat that can't be modelled on the small maps. In RL, the P47 guys flew at high alts, and caught many of their quarries off guard. In AH (small maps) by the time you've climbed your Jug to 8K, you will be surrounded by high alt LA7/109/P51 etc. So the P47 is a bad choice in this *game* on the small maps...

[SlapShot]

If the LA-7, Spit, Niki and Pony are not "uber" (and I'm not saying they are) why do these 4 planes account for 24.54% of the Kills in the MA and 22.4% of the deaths?

Because the are the most used/chosen planes in the MA.

So if the Niki and the LA are not anything special, why do they account for so much arena usage? They even have the same K/D ratio at 1.22.

N1K ...

900 rounds of cannon ammo.

Dives well.

Decent acceleration.

Decent climber.

Good turner.

La-7 ...

450 rounds of cannon ammo. (These guns suck)

Dives great.

Great acceleration.

Good turner.

Both are very good planes. I would say that the N1K would be the easier of the 2 to fly in.

Personally, the only plane I truly fear is the one with a skilled pilot in it.

And that is the way it should be. When I see a plane and recognize it, I immediately start to formulate a plan as to exploit its weaknesses (that I know of) and fly to my planes strengths. If everytime I saw one of these 4 and let the sheer emotion of seeing one of the "top four" effect my strategy, I have already lost the fight.

But I am really curious why these 4 planes get so much play.

Survivability (percieved)

I would not mind seeing these guys perked if it meant a more diverse arena.

Keep that up Muck and I will then jump on the bandwagon to perk your bombs ...

Muck ...

The problem that I see in perking the "top four" is that they will be replaced with the next "top four" which in my opinion will be the LuftWaffe plane set. I already see alot of 109s and 190s, so neuter the top four and that is all you will see.

Then the "whine" to neuter those, and then a new "top four" will emerge. All planes are not equal and will never be equal, so trying to eliminate or restrict planes thinking that you will achieve the "magical" plane balance is nothing but a cyclic pipe dream IMHO.

[SlapShot]

"hehe, Slapshot. OK, I can tell you are a reasonable guy."

Thanks ... I try to be.

[muckmaw]

Slappy-

I have NO problem perking bombs, pal.

Thin out the herd if the bombers so only those that know what they are doing are left standing.

Same reason I applaud the new bomb system when it came out. Thin out the herd until only the dedicated bomber pilots are left.

Maybe finding a diverse, balanced arena is a pipe dream, but it's still a nice dream.

Hell, AH2 is right around the corner...hopefully. I'm very interested in earning the prime rides instead of just clicking on them.

*shrugs*

I guess I'm a hypocrit though. My ride of choice is the F6F.

[SlapShot]

"As for SFP, AKCurly's thread contains some interesting ideas.


Not a bad idea.  I think the 5 inch guns would be more applicable to those bases that are on the coast. That would eliminate CV groups parking right off shore and unleashing an endless stream of planes. They would have to back off more inorder for those flights to achieve some alt to make the job of the 5 inchers more difficult, which in turn would allow some inkling of a defense to be mounted.

I am a supporter in adding many more MANNABLE ack at fields to achive the same effect.

[SlapShot]

Thin out the herd if the bombers so only those that know what they are doing are left standing.

Same reason I applaud the new bomb system when it came out. Thin out the herd until only the dedicated bomber pilots are left.

Cull that herd out any more, and you will become extinct.

[muckmaw]

Originally posted by SlapShot
Thin out the herd if the bombers so only those that know what they are doing are left standing.

Same reason I applaud the new bomb system when it came out. Thin out the herd until only the dedicated bomber pilots are left.

Cull that herd out any more, and you will become extinct.

Muckmaw....the last dinosaur.

Well, at least I'd be #1 in bomber rank every month.

[beet1e]

slapshot!

I am a supporter in adding many more MANNABLE ack at fields to achive the same effect.

Indeed. Me too.

[CHECKERS]

Originally posted by lazs2


that is the point... the new maps and new players and "missuns" have seperated the two camps.   They are at odds with each other and they get in each others way instead of being symbiotic.

moving the fields closer is the only way I can see to get the two camps to coexist  in the arena again.  

I welcome anyone elses ideas on how to get the two camps to coexist... despite what tough guy thinks my "agenda" is choice.   if lack of choice is your agenda thenm we will be at odds.... otherwise.. we need to work together to make an arena that everyone can enjoy.  one that is fair for both camps.
lazs [/B]

Simple fix Laz, Put the two "Peices of Work " Pizza, and Trinity " on their on server and run the rest of the maps the old way . Their was none of these problems before those two  maps !

 My 2 cents
  CHKERS

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by muckmaw
Honest question:

If the LA-7, Spit, Niki and Pony are not "uber" (and I'm not saying they are) why do these 4 planes account for 24.54% of the Kills in the MA and 22.4% of the deaths?

 

Because of numbers.  If you get five guys flying La7s and one guy flying a P-38 and you look at their averages, the group flying the La7 will have a larger kill average than the solo guy in the P-38 because of their numbers.  The same would be true of any plane, not just those you mentioned.  You can reverse it and put five guys in a P-38 and one guy in a La7 and get the same results.  The reason why those planes account for a large share of the kills in the MA has nothing to do with the planes being 'uber' or other such nonsense but rather the numbers that fly them account for the kill %


Ack-Ack

[lazs2]

Ya know... I'm starting to like ol NB.. we don't agree much but he has a tendency toward fairness and honesty that is nice to see.

beetle... I swear... I don't have any idea of what you want or why you oppose what others want.  I read (skimmed) everything you wrote and it just seems like you are not even on the same page as the rest of the group here..  You get bogged down in dtail... which is ok but.. the things you get bogged down in are either a lame defense after getting caught saying something dumb or tearing apart something that someone else  didn't say.

it's all so confusing.
lazs

[GScholz]

Jeeeezus!

Never try to link an image from http://www.somethingawful.com!

[nopoop]

Originally posted by rshubert
I really dislike your whole "pay your dues" attitude

I don't care what you think rshubert.

Besides bustin Beet1e's eggs, if you'll reread what I posted on this thread you'd be surprised to learn that it is a discussion in which I'm taking part in. Although the opposition has dropped the ball in constructive comments.

I might add that I met Beet1e at a WB convention in NC in 2000. Fought him from 1998 on in WB.  After he broke my nose and I dislocated his knee at the convention we've been on fine terms.

Though he hasn't a clue...

..and his knee got better.

Having Manable ack would be a great experiment. Have not seen it in a game so far.  Have a base under attack, if you feel the need, lock and load. If the ack goes down, it's down similar to CV group gun positions.

Might be fun.