k/t needs to be taken with a pinch of NaCl

[SlapShot]

I am not standing in front of laz, he can take care of himself, nor do I condone his style of posting .... but I do support some of his ideas.

Its too bad the "broad" brush has to surface in some of these threads.

<>

[BlkKnit]

OK, a thought...no really, I have had them, once or twice

I have gone through tours where i tried to stay alive, land my sorties and was a bit of a runner.  No fun running all the time, but I would beat it out of there if outnumbered, out flown or low on ammo / fuel.  Other tours i have not cared and spent my time looking for any fight I could find.  Some tours i spent a lot of time battling "tool-sheds".

Well i looked at my stats and....

Cant say that my K/H changed much from tour to tour.  all within 2.0 to 3.6 range.  lasz has a point, but I am against moving ALL the fields closer.....I would like to see some closer, some farther...and definately want them all harder to pork.  The argument has gone on so long, I am not sure if this isn't what lasz has been saying all along.....I seem to remember something to that effect before.  Now you have to realize i am not very good so the stats mentioned probably dont have much bearing, but it is my opinion that K/H alone (or any stat alone) will not necessarilly give you the whole answer.  The guys with a high K/H are just too good for me....and those are the guys i run into in a furball......so we need a D/H to make it simple (I know you can figure it out with enough algebra /trig/geometry / rocket science) for boobs like me.

Oh, rshubert.....if someone is annoying you, why not ignore them?  Berating them will not help (as should be obvious by now) and makes for just that much more ill will on the BBS.  OK, the advice column is closed now.

[MANDOBLE]

Originally posted by lazs2
K/H... you say all a person needs to do is follow the horde a sector and a half and vultch the guys that will obligingly keep poping up on the runway..  that may happen... 1 in ten times...

That is what happen 10 of 10 times with bishops.

[lazs2]

mandoble... think about it... if a horde is vultching then everyone in the horde can't be getting a great k/h sortie out of it... I notice that one or two players get all the kills in a vultch situation.

timid players remain timid no matter what the situation... even if you hand em little flightless baby birds on a platter.   I can easily get a higher K/h by going where the fight is large and fairly even than by taking a chance of flying over a sector, waiting for the building battlers to kill the ack, and then hoping someone will be stupid enough to try to up.
lazs

[beet1e]

Originally posted by SlapShot
I am not standing in front of laz, he can take care of himself, nor do I condone his style of posting .... but I do support some of his ideas.

Its too bad the "broad" brush has to surface in some of these threads.

<>

Unfortunately, some of those ideas would seem to have selfish motives. For example, Lazs has been at pains to point out how inconvenient it is for him to have the fuel at his field porked back to 25%. I have already pointed more than one solution to this, including taking off from one field further back. Lazs wouldn't like that because of the extra time involved. And yet, in Lazs's utopian arena, in which the fields are closer together, the buffs would not have time to reach a safe alt... and the furballers' solution to that? Take off from one field further back. Hmmmm. May I respectfully point out that what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. I think Rshubert covered it in the maths lesson.

[MANDOBLE]

lazs, timid players dont count. They do not exist, they are just like trees. Who cares about them? As I said, they are not a danger and they are not targets. But, about K/T and our maps, today I've spent more than one hour to find and kill two lonewolfs. The last one was averagely good, and looking for his position on the map, he probably was also looking for targets for more than half an hour just to end killed.

[lazs2]

bettle... i see you subscribe to herberts new math...  "a straight line is the only possible path an AH building battler can take".

mandoble... average is average... some fly like you... some fly like me... I get 10-12 kills and hour it doesn't matter... with closer fields yu would find more targets and have a higher K/H  even the talentless would have higher k/h... they would die more but they would also get more kills.

K/h indicates opportunity as an average stat.
lazs

[SlapShot]

"I think Rshubert covered it in the maths lesson."

It appears that you didn't read lazs's or my response to the "math lesson" post.

You simple climb out on an angle to achive the same target altitude within the same amount of time. So with this, the JABO/BUFF flyer has not lost or given up anything (except making one turn) and the "furballer" has what they want. It appears to be a win-win situation.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by SlapShot
"I think Rshubert covered it in the maths lesson."

It appears that you didn't read lazs's or my response to the "math lesson" post.

You simple climb out on an angle to achive the same target altitude within the same amount of time. So with this, the JABO/BUFF flyer has not lost or given up anything (except making one turn) and the "furballer" has what they want. It appears to be a win-win situation.

Slap - my point still stands. The advice being given to the buffers from the furballers is to fly from one field further back. But to have to do the same thing is abhorrent to the furballers

[NoBaddy]

Originally posted by lazs2
nobady.. i don't think stats are worthless..  I think they can show trends.   If gunnery got harder the trend would be for average hit percentage to go down.. if it got easier the hit percentage would go up.

K/H... you say all a person needs to do is follow the horde a sector and a half and vultch the guys that will obligingly keep poping up on the runway..  that may happen... 1 in ten times... most likely if you are in infinity or pizza tho you will have a long folight to nowhere.   if you are in a fast plane you will more than likely lose the vultchs to someone like me who will kill em on the runway before you even start to turn to line up and be lined up for the next plane befor the rest of the building battlers point out there is one.

I think that to get a K/H average (over a tour or two) of over 7 or 10 or so... you have to look for the fight that is close.   If the map does not offer the opportunity for furballs then the k/h for everyone will be down... everyone will be fighting for scraps when they are not too busy hiding from the hordes... look at the kill buffer in pizza or infinity...  it is painful... mostly chat.

So... let's get some average stats and see if I am right.   I mean... you could be right and I could be wrong but .... probly huberts would fly out of our butts before that ever happened.  still.... I am open minded about it..

Lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
If you dissagree with me I will get all my friends to beat you up.

Lazs...
The 'worthless' comment was made in response to the juvenile stat pissing contest goin on at the being of the thread. I agree that stats have value as a tool to investigate arena trends. I also find them useful from 'personal' stand point. I stand by my statement that the only really useful stat is F/H. If it takes you 3 minutes to get a kill and me 3 hours...why should either of us care, as long as we are both having fun?

Please, re-read what I wrote. I did not say "follow the horde" to get a high K/H. I did say follow the "lemmings". The horde hits a field together, the lemmings straggle over in a conga line. Actually, the best spot is to be in is the lead of the lemmings. Then you swoop in and get kills while they trash the field. This was true 12 years ago when I tried the point monkey game in AW...it's still true today. Yah, I did the point monkey thing here for about 6 months after I first started and I had fun doing it. However, I find playing for 'points' to be BORING .

Currently, I could care less about 'furballing' at this point in time. My spikey-assed controllers won't allow me to furball. Though, I still sometimes try (not a lot of fun to see your plane flip over and auger 90% of the time when you try and knife fight ). My point is just because someone doesn't play the way you play doesn't mean they aren't having fun and the only skill that stats show is that one is good at cranking stats .

[Toad]

Originally posted by beet1e
The advice being given to the buffers from the furballers is to fly from one field further back. But to have to do the same thing is abhorrent to the furballers

Ignoring the point that they've said the  air distance would be the same in the case of the bombers with closer fields but air distance would be greater in the case of the furballers with field spacing unchanged.

Or is that to complex a concept?

[ccvi]

Originally posted by NoBaddy
The horde hits a field together, the lemmings straggle over in a conga line.

Oh. There's a difference between a horde and lemmings? Good to know.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Mr. Toad
Ignoring the point that they've said the  air distance would be the same in the case of the bombers with closer fields but air distance would be greater in the case of the furballers with field spacing unchanged.

Or is that to complex a concept?

Let's stick to the facts, and leave the goalposts where they are!

Fact 1: The furballers are appalled by fuel porkage because it means they have to take off from one field further back. (Particularly true for some early war planes)

Fact 2: The buffers are appalled by the prospect of fields being moved closer together and/or more and more vehicle fields being converted to airfields, which amounts to the same thing. And the furballers' solution - Take off from one field further back.

I said what I said, and I was very careful in what I said. Refer to the FACTS...

...Or is that too complex a concept?

[BNM]

As to the math thing.. we are talking about more fields, not more or less distance.

Take off ----------------------------------- Target

A1.........A2.........A3.....FB.....A4.........A5.........A6

As opposed to now:

A1.................A2..........FB.........A3.................A4

Distance to climb to alt in both cases:

----------------->

As you can see it's the same distance from takeoff to target, same distance to climb to alt and about the same distance to expect any enemy contact.

There IS NO DIFFERENCE for the strat (bombers) but alot of difference (more-quicker-closer) fights for furballers.

Hope that clears it up.

[beet1e]

Nice try, BNM, but that's not what I was getting at.

The problem with the smaller, children's maps is that the fields are so close together that they give rise to opportunist LA7 cherrypickers. Gawd knows I've seen enough of that, and it's one of the reasons I like Trinity and the Pizza map. Now I don't know how effective an LA7 is against a buff, as I fly neither. But even if Mr. Cherrypick chooses a mount other than an LA7, the reality is that he and his buds will be making those 5 minute opportunist runs to whack the buffs while they are at low alt. So that straight line you have drawn won't be applicable. The buffs would have to fly away from the eventual target initially to gain enough alt to meke safe transit of the en route fields prior to reaching the target.

Hope that clears it up.