Author Topic: Where Fur and Strat Collide... (Read 9324 times)

muckmaw · « **Reply #270 on:** July 04, 2003, 11:08:53 AM »

Lazs-

Right now Knight CV is being moved to cricle Grid Squad 7-6. I have command.

Get a rook and a Bish to do the same and we can test it out!

muckmaw · « **Reply #271 on:** July 04, 2003, 11:13:50 AM »

Wipass grabbed the CV...someone with low rank move it to circle grid 7-6 and get the rooks and bish to circle adjacent grids and we've got a furball.

TMAW · « **Reply #272 on:** July 04, 2003, 11:22:48 AM »

Why not use what we have already? The mission planner is what you make of it, a mission could be bombers w/escorts or just as easily a fighter sweep. Why not coordinate fighter sweep missions between opposing sides. Just put them on a collision course, kinda like putting bugs in a jar and shaking them up.

Tinman

muckmaw · « **Reply #273 on:** July 04, 2003, 11:26:42 AM »

No one seems interested in moving the CVs.

I boradcast the idea on channel one, only to be ignored.

*shrugs*

Guess everyone's out partying.

nopoop · « **Reply #274 on:** July 04, 2003, 11:56:49 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by beet1e
I have seen the reaction of the silent majority of players in response to player induced game changes

But Beet1e you experienced as I did a game that went the way of the vocal realists with the elimination of choice after choice ie: Plane availibility from specific fields, plane availibility via RPS, plane availibility via axis vs allied, radar restriction so silly that when I left it was 15 miles..

All changes in that game restricted choice. They strangled the game for the realists. At this very moment those on dialup over there are choking down a 200+meg download of a 1 to 1 Europe map with no GPS so 23 guys can experience "what it was like" while in full uniform using an official WWII flight computor for navigation..

Suggestions in THIS discussion as to field distance, fuel and CV issues increase choice.

If they don't, please explain in a logical point by point way how they don't and in effect restrict game play for all.

No dodging, I tried reeeely hard to spell everything correctly.

I await your answer...

I will start holding my breath now..

Toad · « **Reply #275 on:** July 04, 2003, 01:57:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by beet1e
I am content with the game as it is because that's how HTC designed it.

Horse poop.

You are content with a game that has radically evolved from what HTC designed. And a greater part of the evolutionary changes were probably suggested by the player base "fingerbobs" than thought up solely by HTC.

I keep forgetting that you haven't really been here all that long, considering the evolutionary timeline of AH.

The changes are too numerous to list and there's not much point in a long laundry list anyway. Suffice it to say that the game you are content with right now is as much a result of small special interest groups suggesting, arguing and whining on the BBS as it is a result of divine inspiration in Grapevine.

So you're whole premise, this "object to tinkering which seeks to alter the overall gameplay style for the benefit of some but the detriment of others" is simply hay that has been run through a horse's intestinal tract.

The game you are now content with reached it's present state because of tinkering which seeks to alter the overall gameplay style for the benefit of some but the detriment of others.

Simple fact.

And that tinkering has always and will always go on. Nature of the beast.

Of course, now that YOU are satisfied, detrimental tinkering must stop. And who is the "tinkering judge and jury"? Why Beet1e, of course! How obvious, eh? You'll decide which tinkering is to be allowed.

Nah...... like always, it'll be HTC. And like always, this BBS will be full of threads like this one. Suggesting all sorts of tinkering.

Quote

Originally posted by beet1e
And I have learned it in its current form. We have to learn to work with what we have... If you can prove to me that the fingerbob changes would benefit everyone, we'll talk again - green sig text would apply. Until that time, red (and purple) sig text apply.

The proof is quite easy. The game you are playing now is a direct result of "fingerbob changes" that happened long before you showed up here and since you showed up here. QED.

And if we "have to learn to work with what we have" then nothing would have changed since the initial debut of the pure ACM game that was AH years ago.

Oh... one last thing.... ONCE AGAIN, since you're dedicated to ignoring this cruicial element of the current discussion:

The Aircraft Furball Arena Within An Arena would not affect the way YOU play this game in any way at all. You could still have your "strateegery" and cosmic, orgasmic war winning messages.

It would merely be an OPTION for those who chose to participate and WOULD NOT AFFECT those who chose NOT to participate.

And, since you've repeated claimed you're a big fan of choice, I'm sure you support this concept.

BTW, have you given up on your desire for an RPS yet, choice-meister?

BGBMAW · « **Reply #276 on:** July 04, 2003, 03:00:47 PM »

how gay this is....

u freakn mooroons

we have all this

laz..u dsaying u cant find instant furbalss 24 hours a day?? no sht...me too

i do everything in this game..

if im on just to furball..i can find it..i up my Slurricane and shoot down everyone that comes close to me..(sure cant chase them)

yes again once inawhile fuel is porked...either fly farther...or wait for 1)_ fuel to comebak 2) base to be captured..

i findf furbALLS 95% OF MY TIME WHEN I LOG ON..

if u cant find action..you must be one of those poor bastards who always lose their keys/ or just have a ruff life in general

Like tiger town..im sure a ftr town could work also..it would be easy..

BUT we alwats have some jerkooof trying to capture Tiger Town hangsars..i was teling this young buck to beat it..we are battling...he goes off and captures all the Bases in Tiger Town..i was pissed..fuking ahole

Sam,e thing would happen in ftr town...

Muck thts why CV battle would not work..we have people in here who like to ruin good times for the majoprity/...

but it doesnt happen all the time so it can work the majority of the time

Anyways..im locking this thread --- crap someone changhed the lok and didnt gimme the new keys.,.arghhh

THIS GAME IS ALMOST PERFECT!!! I love it..Salute HTC and Crew

and Laz..u dont know much about the Marine Air Wing...lot of us love furballing...hell thts all they do except on certain squad nights..

anyways..u guys suk..

Love
BiGB
xoxo

Halo · « **Reply #277 on:** July 04, 2003, 03:24:47 PM »

This thread began as one of the most eloquent summaries of strat vs. fur and has lived to become one of the longest.

Furballing is tactical dueling on relatively level playing fields -- fun for both sides. Strategic campaigning ploughs up the playing fields and buries enemy toys -- fun for winners, not for losers.

Plenty of room in Aces High for both except in the final stages of being on the wrong side of a strategic campaign. Then reset rejuvenates the jungle. Is this a great game or what?

BGBMAW · « **Reply #278 on:** July 04, 2003, 03:35:32 PM »

yes halo..i do love this game right now

they did a DAm good job balancing game play..excellent job

AKcurly · « **Reply #279 on:** July 05, 2003, 01:09:33 AM »

Lazs/Toad,

Have either of you talked to Hitech about your proposed changes? It occurs to me this discussion is moot (at best) if the game designer doesn't want to move his game in that direction.

Toad, you used the word "evolving" in discussing game changes. Are you sure that's what's happening? From my limited pov, it seems like Hitech has an ultimate goal in mind and he's simply moving the game towards that goal.

I may be wrong, but I don't believe strat and furballs will work in the same arena. Furballers want the fields closer together and that makes many strategic objectives difficult (if not impossible) to atchieve.

AH2 seems to be as far from the furball concept as you can get. And, AH2 is the future of Aces High.

But, we're going to keep the main arena, right? Maybe you can persuade Hitech to populate the MA with maps like Mindanao ...

Why not call HTC? Why not ask if he will entertain the notion of a *pure* furball arena? Several folks have volunteered to create the map if you 1) get HTCs agreement and 2) specify the map details.

curly

beet1e · « **Reply #280 on:** July 05, 2003, 03:52:18 AM »

ROFL Mr. Toad! I can always tell when you're rattled by the height of your wall. Just divide the number of words in your wall by the number of words in the one I wrote which elicited your wall, and the quotient is the Toad rattle factor - lol.

I've said all that needs to be said. I've argued against changing a terrain to bring about a certain mode of gameplay, and Skuzzy agrees with me. That's as close a confirmation as I need to assure me that the fingerbob terrain tweaks/nudges are not going to happen.

So no need to keep busting my chops about it.

As for moving the fields closer together, I think that's an idea that needs to be treated with caution. I was online yesterday just before Skuzzy reset the arena to the Mindano map. I had been involved in a 3v3 fight, but bailed after killing the last Spit. When I came back about an hour later, there were about 10 TYPHs taking off for a no-skill-repeated-reuppage-numerical-supremacy-smashdown raid. And I thought, oh no, not this crap again... and I logged off. Unfortunately, that's the crappy gameplay that's engendered by the children's maps, because suicide and reuppage become so much more feasible when the fields are only 5 minutes apart. Fortunately, this isn't as much of a problem during Euro hours, and was only a problem yesterday because of the American holiday, with many more people online than is usual at that time.

Fine if that's what you want, but it's not what I want. And HTC knows it's not what I want, and so at my request they are developing a new and better game - AH2. They even chose the name Aces High, knowing it would get abbreviated to AH, those being my real life initials.

Nopoop - of course AH has evolved over the years, but to the benefit of everyone. Buffs now fly in formations of three, but the 163 is now available for those who want to shoot them down. Nice balancing act. It's changes to benefit a small subset of players that I don't like, because then you've got to make changes to placate another subset of players who became disgruntled by the first set of changes. Then you reach the mess and confusion that we left behind in WB, in which you never knew from one day to the next how much ord would be needed to destroy a strat target, or how your plane would fly, or how strong buff otto would be, or whether a Spit1a could still outturn a 109E (as it should) or - wait a minute - today's Saturday, so the 109E outturns the Spit1a today...

I say let HTC get on with it. They've been brilliant so far, and things are about to get better.

lazs2 · « **Reply #281 on:** July 05, 2003, 06:49:44 AM »

AH has evolved.. anyone here a while recalls the 100 plus threads on changing the 1.03 FM. There have been changes in infinity... fields have been (in effect) moved closer after a similar discussion to this.

AK.. yeah I talked to HT at the con about the area arena... he thought it would never work at first but started to consider it after I explained a little better and he realized that I wanted seperate resets. Also... closer fields don't make strat any worse. they stratify the gameplay... low alt for slow planes, high for fast.

Yep...AH2.. that will be the thing. If we are headed toward role playing then that will prove it... The arenas will decide.. If people want to wait in the tower for half an hour to participate in a missun then they will be in that arena but... Let's fix the MA for now... It won't be "your" arena anyhow if you are a strat/missun guy.

I fight alsongside some maw... but very few.. even 10k is too high for you to be in the fights I find most often...The maw are knit and I rarely fight alongside more than 2 or three of the 80 guys they have... not exactly a "furballin" squad in my opinion.
lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #282 on:** July 05, 2003, 07:01:29 AM »

still... this thread is worthwhile if only in the fact that it burned through the alkie fog of both the great comentator of all things social, creamo, and his companion in booze and gutters... bbgmaw

Toad · « **Reply #283 on:** July 05, 2003, 07:47:57 AM »

The amount of text is directly proportional to Beet1e's obtuseness.

And the latest post proves that he's either trolling again or he is indeed obtuse beyond all measure.

AH is where it is today because of game changes suggested by both the players and HTC. The idea that the players don't tweak and nudge the game as much as HTC is delusional fantasy. HTC has always been VERY responsive to the community; it's a prime reason for the success.

So, threads like these suggesting changes will continue and some ideas will even be implemented.

The MA and AH2 will co-exist. Those who think the AH2 "mission arena" is the "future" of HTC's vision either don't fully understand what they've said about it or perhaps haven't talked to them. AH2 is primarily about a new graphics engine. Hear it now, believe it later.

I note Beet1e, that you again side step the issue of an Aircraft Furball Arena Within An Arena based upon the Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena. It exists, it works. It lets Tankers furball while the rest of the MA plays steamroller. Something similar would work for aircraft, and probably make guys like Laz and I very happy.

Toad · « **Reply #284 on:** July 05, 2003, 08:05:49 AM »

Curly,

I think HT does have a goal and a roadmap but as we've seen, his company is also very adept at taking player input and including it into the plan. For example, and this is mostly intuition, I think the "mission arena" idea wasn't in the original roadmap. It's a response to a faction in the community.

I actually think it's a detour.

My personal opinion is that it's being done to mollify a portion of the paying community so that work can then continue towards the true goal. But there's no proof of that; it may have been in the plan all along.

I have heard him talk about other aspects of gameplay that have not yet been implemented but have had the necessary provisions included in the basic programming for a long, long time.

Quote

Originally posted by AKcurly
I may be wrong, but I don't believe strat and furballs will work in the same arena. Furballers want the fields closer together and that makes many strategic objectives difficult (if not impossible) to atchieve.

Yeah, you're wrong.

Strat and Furball already works on the Trinity map. The Tankers are Furballing in Tank Town and it has essentially no effect whatsoever on what passes for "strat" on the rest of the map.

We just need an Aircraft Furball Arena Within An Arena similar to the Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena also known as Tank Town on Trinity.

Quote

Originally posted by AKcurly
1) get HTCs agreement and 2) specify the map details.

curly

After the Con and after Oshkosh, I probably will talk to him about giving the CV Furball idea a try. I think it'd satisfy a lot of folks that don't care for the no-skill-repeated-reuppage-numerical-supremacy-smashdown raids that are the basis for ALL strat on ALL maps.

The problem I see with the CV idea though is that it's going to take more "sea room" than the Tank Town takes up on Trinity. But I'm still thinking about it and sketching things out now and then.

If it's possible to create "airfields" in the terrain editor that have no VH and no BH attributes, then it would be much easier and take less space than CV's.