Well it's started the CIA s planting evidence and digging it up...

[GRUNHERZ]

Your logic seems to be that this find of Iraqi deliberately hidden illegal nuclear wepons production material is somehow bad news for the US case of Iraq violating its cease fire and UN commitments.

Naturally by this reasoning this means that actual WMD stockpiles if found would put the nail in the coffin to the US case of Iraq being a threat.

Because of course your logic seems to be that evidence of violations somehow disproves the US position that Iraq has vilated its agreements...

[Gixer]

Grunherz,

I understand what your saying but why isn't the Bush admin rushing off to bomb and invade North Iraq given they not only have nuclear weapons but the means to deliver them.

And must surely be the Number 1 threat to US security at the moment not Iraq prior to invasion.



...-Gixer

[Suave]

That you ask why tells me you have never been to korea . That is a war that would be very costly and difficult for us to win without deploying nuclear weapons . They have a very strong, well fortified conventional army .

To give you an idea, the large and modern 2nd infantry division that is the main US ground forces  component tasked with defending SK is often half jokingly referred to as "speed bump" by US Army soldiers .

[Gixer]

Suave,

That's exactly my point. Iraq was an easy target. North Korea isn't.



...-Gixer

[Sandman]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Your logic seems to be that this find of Iraqi deliberately hidden illegal nuclear wepons production material is somehow bad news for the US case of Iraq violating its cease fire and UN commitments.

Naturally by this reasoning this means that actual WMD stockpiles if found would put the nail in the coffin to the US case of Iraq being a threat.
 

Not just a threat... an imminent threat capable of deployment in as little as 45 minutes.

There is no evidence to date to support this claim and I doubt very seriously that they'll ever substantiate it.

[Suave]

Originally posted by Gixer
Suave,

That's exactly my point. Iraq was an easy target. North Korea isn't.



...-Gixer

Right, we prevented another potential North Korea . Some people, believe it or not, think that we shouldn't have .

[Nash]

Ok Grun...

This centrifuge....

This is not weapons of mass destruction. It is not even a weapon of mass destruction. It certainly the shreck is not 25,000 liters of anthrax, 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin, nor 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. Capice?

So what exactly do we have here?

A "key piece of Iraqi nuclear technology" says CNN. It's a significant find for a few reasons, perhaps the most important being that it's finally our first glimpse into the state of Iraq's nuclear weapons program. From Powell's presentations at the United Nations to Condalisa's Sunday morning talk show circuits describing mushroom clouds over downtown Chicago, we were painted a picture of an Iraqi nuclear weapons program in full swing; Iraqi scientists feverishly toiling away, the urgency such that completion of the first weapon was as near as three months away.

Today we got our first look at this stuff... and yeah, it's a helluhvah find alright.

Because right away we discover that what we were led to believe... this threat.... turns out to be complete, total bs. Garbage. It's freaking unbelievable! What happened here?

Stay with me for a sec...

This peice of gas centrifuge has been sitting in dirt since Iraq negotiated its surrender 12 years ago, and dates back to Iraq's pre-1991 efforts to build nuclear weapons. Why is that significant? Because it hasn't been touched since! Mahdi Obeidi, the Iraqi scientist who was ordered to hide the thing, was the key to the restarting of this centrifuge program and he never got the order to restart it! If there were any nuclear weapons program in any shape or form whatsoever, this guy would be on it...  yet he's been out of a job since 1991!

Iraq kicked the weapons inspectors out for years. That's presumably why everyone went back en masse, right? For 2-3 years Iraq was accountable to nobody. Nobody was able to watch them. Yet... that thing was left in the dirt.

Uhm.... hello? Uh.... WTF man?!

What we found today was that THERE WAS NO NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAM! Hows about THEM apples?

So why the hell aren't people getting this? It's so shrecking... DUH. It's like invasion of the freakin' body snatchers or something.

[lord dolf vader]

plausable deniability.

[Nash]

ouch you're gonna haveta elaborate... my brain is fried...

[Kweassa]

Oooh.

 Careful, Nash.

 Fried brains could be considered a potential threat, as they "may" develop into something that "might" trigger you into becoming a ruthless dictator, thus, becoming a threat to the "national security".

 Sooner or later, the CNN's gonna start digging up yer garden.

 So hush hush, friend!

[GRUNHERZ]

Sooo Nash you think Saddam ordered this stuff buried after the 1991 cease fire and WMD restrictions just for the hell of it?

You actually dont think that he would restrt his nuclear program the second inspectors declared him claean and were gone from Iraq? Thats why the only choice was to take him out.

Gixer youre right NK is a problem, but franky NK is not Iraq the situation is different and we must handle it differently at this stage. I have no doubt if NK pushed too far in some way that we would then just grit down and deal with them harshly, war, but this is not the time for that action. Remember all the interseting anti war criticizm of the USA's "rush" to war after only 12 years of giving Saddam cahnce after to chance to behave nicely - so I take any suggestion that we should automatically invade NK to be dubious self serving hypocriy when it comes from the same people. We are trying it very hard the diplomatic way for now in NK, just like the anti war types wanted - yet they still complain... Oh well.  

[Syzygyone]

I envy your certainty in a very uncertain world.

Or.... should it be pity?

Hmmmmmmm...........?

[_Schadenfreude_]

Originally posted by Nash
Ok Grun...

This centrifuge....

This is not weapons of mass destruction. It is not even a weapon of mass destruction. It certainly the shreck is not 25,000 liters of anthrax, 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin, nor 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. Capice?

So what exactly do we have here?

A "key piece of Iraqi nuclear technology" says CNN. It's a significant find for a few reasons, perhaps the most important being that it's finally our first glimpse into the state of Iraq's nuclear weapons program. From Powell's presentations at the United Nations to Condalisa's Sunday morning talk show circuits describing mushroom clouds over downtown Chicago, we were painted a picture of an Iraqi nuclear weapons program in full swing; Iraqi scientists feverishly toiling away, the urgency such that completion of the first weapon was as near as three months away.

Today we got our first look at this stuff... and yeah, it's a helluhvah find alright.

Because right away we discover that what we were led to believe... this threat.... turns out to be complete, total bs. Garbage. It's freaking unbelievable! What happened here?

Stay with me for a sec...

This peice of gas centrifuge has been sitting in dirt since Iraq negotiated its surrender 12 years ago, and dates back to Iraq's pre-1991 efforts to build nuclear weapons. Why is that significant? Because it hasn't been touched since! Mahdi Obeidi, the Iraqi scientist who was ordered to hide the thing, was the key to the restarting of this centrifuge program and he never got the order to restart it! If there were any nuclear weapons program in any shape or form whatsoever, this guy would be on it...  yet he's been out of a job since 1991!

Iraq kicked the weapons inspectors out for years. That's presumably why everyone went back en masse, right? For 2-3 years Iraq was accountable to nobody. Nobody was able to watch them. Yet... that thing was left in the dirt.

Uhm.... hello? Uh.... WTF man?!

What we found today was that THERE WAS NO NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAM! Hows about THEM apples?

So why the hell aren't people getting this? It's so shrecking... DUH. It's like invasion of the freakin' body snatchers or something.

People like Nash restore my faith in common sense.

[Dowding]

Couldn't agree more.

[-tronski-]

Common sense seems in short supply lately

 Tronsky