Author Topic: best fighter/bomber ww2  (Read 1458 times)

Offline ramzey

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best fighter/bomber ww2
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2003, 03:04:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Lol! You remind me of that 308 guy who sat outside the ready room reading a book titled "1001 English Words" :p


"The RAF is not a flying circus! Strict RT procedures are to be followed at all times!” :D


GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR ignorant !!!! ;)

It was 303rd Fighter Squadron
http://www.geocities.com/psp1945/303/303_story.htm
l
http://www.geocities.com/psp1945/303/303_BoB.html

And this guy who sit and learn english character was base on one of best pilots;) Im not feel offended :D

U know most of pilots know french, but thats diferent story:D :D

Offline GScholz

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« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2003, 03:08:44 AM »
Oh, my mistake ... terribly sorry old chap … you’re not that guy! :D:D:D

Yeah I bet the British was ecstatic about French radio chatter. ;)
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Tilt

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« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2003, 03:49:05 AM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
luckily the VK-107 Yak-3 didn’t see service in WWII, or so I’ve been told.
 


Because only two were made.... for trials.........
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Offline Tilt

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« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2003, 03:54:09 AM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
Best fighter of WWII? … Hmmmm, Me-262A-1a Schwalbe?

Best fighterbomber of WWII? … Hmmmm, Me-262A-2a Sturmvogel?

Best nightfighter of WWII? … Hmmmm, Me-262B-1a/U1? (Kurt Welter got 20 kills in this one making him the highest-scoring jet ace in all history)


… Oh, you mean best piston-engined fighter, silly me ;).





Agreed.............  

for piston engined what about the  Tempest........
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Offline GScholz

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« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2003, 04:06:43 AM »
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Originally posted by Tilt
Agreed.............  

for piston engined what about the  Tempest........


The Tempest is a much overlooked plane, it sertainly ranks up there with the big contenders. It's not the fastest though.
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Offline rod367th

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« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2003, 04:39:23 AM »
this is off lockheed martin and the RAND corp. (us think tank )investigation into planes off ww2. in 1981 they setup a think tank on planes. to decide roll of future multi national fighter. This is page 46 of report. Not my idea of plane as I think tiffy probally was high up there





r2861 is book from national congress. written by mike d rich, William L stanley( my father),John birkler and Mary vaiana all from Rand corp , santa monica ca.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2003, 04:54:30 AM by rod367th »

Offline BUG_EAF322

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« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2003, 05:13:07 AM »
That me 262 was so good we almost lost the war.
:rolleyes:

Offline Furball

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« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2003, 07:31:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
The Tempest is a much overlooked plane, it sertainly ranks up there with the big contenders. It's not the fastest though.


At low alt it is as fast, if not faster than those planes mentioned there (435mph at 19k if i remember rightly: Tempest V and that is the slowest version).

I find that article VERY American Biased :p

And how can you say it was the best WWII fighter-bomber when it entered service in 1945 and only saw action in the pacific?! :rolleyes:  Hey, why not consider the DeHavilland Vampire?!
« Last Edit: June 30, 2003, 07:38:56 AM by Furball »
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Offline hazed-

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« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2003, 08:18:26 AM »
You say that often the people arguing which is best dont always have the best information yet you seem to be of the opinion that anything written about the corsair is set in stone.

If theres one thing we can say for certain about WW2 information and records its that they are NOT all certain.what i mean is lots of records are based on estimates and claims which can never be fully proven.

You say the corsair had the best record as a fighter bomber yet you must surely know that by 1945 you have many other factors to consider concerning trying to evaluate combat effectiveness of any particular model.you have, just for a few examples:

1) overclaiming of damage done by pilots
2) Fabricated ground targets made by the defenders to attract fire from attackers.The british were superb at tricking the Germans but its a little known fact that the Japanese were expert at building mock up aircraft and other ground targets. Many claims for aircraft destroyed on the ground during the latter stages of WW2 vs the japanese were model mock ups.
3) The corsair was know as the 'Ensign killer' due to the fact it was very unforgiving on inexperieced flyers.So if your criteria for best fighter bomber involves safety or ease of use then you will struggle to get in the top ten here.
4)Japanes pilots were of a far lower quality towards the end of WW2 just as the German average level of skill faded fast from 1943 onwards.This means any aircraft which survived welll in the early years of the war should get extra consideration due to the quality of the oppersition.

we could go on all day.

A Fighter bomber whom I personally think would kick the corasirs bellybutton in the fighter bomber dept is the P47. It fought in a theatre which had far more formidable air defenses and I would guess a far higher likelyhood of interception.It was just as, if not more rugged and durable as the Corsair. It was a damn sight easier to fly for an inexperienced pilots and it basically was acclaimed by allied and axis pilots alike as a superb fighter-bomber. This for me would make me rate it above the f4u-4. Yes it(f4) was in advance of the enemies aircraft that it faced but that for me is a reason to count against it rather than for it.The f4u-4 faced what was left of the IJN/IJA in the last months of the war, not the formidable force it once was.If you look at other fighter bombers like Typhoons, mosquitoes, 190s ,110s, P47s,P38's and P51's etc etc they all faced enemies that were far more their equal than the aircraft the F4U-4 pilot was likely to meet. Maybe F4U-4's fought japans top fighters in late 1945? perhaps you can show us a few excerpts from pilots combat tales that mention some? I have never seen any myself and i suspect that the japanese they did face were mostly of the suicidal outdated types which made up the mmajority of japans airforce toward the end. They were throwing 1939 zeros into the fight as kamakazi's! .
Then theres the typhoon:


" [3] TYPHOON IN COMBAT
* By the time of D-Day, 6 June 1944, Gloster had built almost 2,000 Typhoons, and they were serving in 26 RAF squadrons. The Tiffies helped pave the way for the invasion by blasting coastal radar stations, and were put to good use as Allied armies advanced, using a "cab rank" system where fighters stood by in the air and awaited calls from ground controllers for targets to destroy.

On 17 July 1944, Typhoons attacked a German staff car that turned out to be carrying the commander of German forces opposing the invasion, Field Marshall Erwin Rommel. Rommel was badly wounded and did not return to action, as he was implicated in a plot to assassinate Adolf Hitler and was forced to commit suicide.

The high point of the Typhoon's career was the Battle of the Falaise Pocket in the third week of August 1944. Wehrmacht divisions, forced by Hitler's obstinate insistence that they stand their ground when they should have withdrawn, were almost completely encircled in the area of the French town of Falaise by the Allied armies. The Germans in the pocket were then crushed by artillery and air strikes.

RP-firing Typhoons, or "Rockoons", were significant contributors to the butchery, hitting everything that moved, with Tiffy pilots walking up to a target with cannon fire and then loosing a devastating salvo of RPs. Allied scouts who moved into the area after the shooting died down described it as a "slaughterhouse", with German survivors in numb shock. The Allied victory ended serious German resistance in France."


quoted from this web site:http://www.vectorsite.net/avcfury.html#m3
« Last Edit: June 30, 2003, 08:37:58 AM by hazed- »

Offline hazed-

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« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2003, 08:30:46 AM »
anyway this is the best piston aircraft of WW2(just after*) :)


http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/images/camm_Sea_Fury_FB11_1_500.jpg


this thing was unreal! :) The SeaFury.


* ( The first Sea Fury prototype (SR661) flew on 21 February 1945. It was fitted with a Centaurus XII engine, a four-blade propeller, an arresting hook, but lacked folding wings. The second prototype (SR666) flew on 12 October 1945, and featured a Centaurus XV engine with 1,900 kW (2,550 HP) on improved shock mountings, a distinctive five-blade Rotol propeller, an arresting hook, and wings that folded hydraulically. A third prototype with a similar level of equipment fit was partially completed by Boulton-Paul and finished by Hawker. )
« Last Edit: June 30, 2003, 08:40:51 AM by hazed- »

Offline Saurdaukar

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« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2003, 09:13:58 AM »
Anyone else lusting for a P47N and a Yak-3 in AH after reading that?

Offline Zanth

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« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2003, 09:23:38 AM »
Love em or hate em - hard to not say the P51.  Apperance of that plane changed the war.

Offline Furball

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« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2003, 11:30:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zanth
Love em or hate em - hard to not say the P51.  Apperance of that plane changed the war.


As escort to daylight bombing raids, for ground attack it was a bit too fragile!
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Offline Zanth

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« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2003, 11:45:00 AM »
More in response to the conclusion in the part II of the origianl post "In conclusion, it would be hard, no, impossible to dismiss the F4U-4 as the leading candidate for the "best fighter/bomber of WWII". Furthermore, there is strong evidence that it very well may be the best piston engine fighter (to see combat) period."

The P-51s destroyed 4,950 enemy aircraft in the air, more than any other fighter in Europe.  Further, they accompished this with a K/D ratio of 19:1.  (Mighty impressive numbers for the author of the F4U-4 book quoted to dismiss.)

Offline Sixpence

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« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2003, 11:51:49 AM »
How would a 109 qualify as the best fighter bomber? Silly luftwits.

P47 and P38 I think would be up there. What gives the Corsair an advantage is it's versatility. Being able to operate from a CV, the Corsair can be dispatched anywhere.
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