Any way to fight in 190's?

[Ecke-109-]

Are there any ways to fight in an agressive manner in 190's?
I dont expect them to go in to a close turnfight.
But is there something else like B&Z to be sucessfull?

I mean...is it me or the 190 that i feel a bit helpless when coalt with an enemy (which is not a 190)?

I would really appreciate to get some films.
Please send to: ecke@abbeville.cc
I have some 109 films to swap

Thank you,
Ecke;)

[Rude]

Just give up...fly straight....it's hopeless.

[Manedew]

use it's roll rate .... get enmeies to turn and over shoot then slide in behind em' and boom!  Sicciors

[gofaster]

in a 190A8 with 4 20mms and heavy machine guns at 15k when I spotted a P-51D down low on the deck, moving fast and heading for my base.  So I went diving down...

The pilot saw me as I closed and he pickled his ordinance.  Normally, when bounced, Mustang pilots like to go into a tight turn, but this Mustang pilot had a bit of pluck and really started twist around the sky.  I had the berserker rage going and did something I normally wouldn't do in a 190A8 - I turned with him.

Gradually we both started getting close to 250ias and I could feel the 190 start to torque over on its wing, so I leveled out, found a valley, and dove into it to keep my speed up.  He followed me down and the fight was on!

I knew from the early turning that my 190 would lose its speed sooner than the Mustang would, so I started going into a scissors fight in the bowl of the valley.  Eventually the Mustang overshot on a reverse turn and I managed to get a snapshot of 20mm into him.  Off came his vertical stabilizer and he fluttered to the ground.  "You shot down (somebody who's name I've forgotten) of (some RCAF squadron)."  Victory through superior energy management.

Right about then his buddy came diving down on me.  I hit WEP to get some speed so I could get the 190 back into the meat of its flight envelope.  The Mustang overshot and pulled up into a loop to transfer its kinetic energy into potential energy and set itself up for another guns run against me.  I went into a shallow high yo-yo just to get some air under my feet and stay out of plane with the Mustang, trying to force him into a deflection shot of some sort.  He came over the top and back down on me as I tightened my turn and worked my throttle to avoid nose-planting on the side of the valley.  He tried to drop flaps in order to lose speed but it was no use.  On the pull-out he scraped his prop on the grassy knoll and had to ditch.  Victory through superior energy management, again.

My advice when flying the 190A8 is this: in a low-speed fight, Mustangs will have the advantage.  In a high-speed fight, the fight becomes more equal.  The key fact is that the 190 can lose its speed, and therefore cut a turn shorter, than a Mustang when both planes start out fast - 400 knots or so.  You have to use a Mustang's energy retention against it.

For other planes, the best attack is the one from dead astern or dead ahead.  In the 190A8 with four 20mms, go for the HO if the enemy will give it to you.  You can also try for a snap shot if the enemy is maneuvering.  However, don't try to turn fight unless you are 1 v 1 or have the odds in your favor.

[Ecke-109-]

@Manedew

Aren't scissors a  kind of defensive acm which you should fly when the enemy is just behind you?
Do you use scissors when flying head to head at first merge?

Ecke

[gofaster]

Originally posted by Ecke-109-
Aren't scissors a  kind of defensive acm which you should fly when the enemy is just behind you?

You can fly scissors when either the enemy is behind you or when you are behind the enemy.  Normally, scissors is a defensive move, but if you find that you are doing a scissors pattern when you are chasing an enemy, you must be certain that either (a) your plane will turn sharper than your enemy or (b) your plane will lose energy faster than your enemy (which will allow you to turn sharper as the enemy overshoots you at the turn and flies in front of your guns).  Once you have completed a scissors turn, make sure your guns are strong enough to damage your enemy at the merge. You will only have a snap shot.  Or, hope that your plane has better low speed handling than your enemy because eventually you will both end up at low speed and on the deck unless one of you breaks the scissors pattern.

[Ecke-109-]

Thank you Gofaster,

Or, hope that your plane has better low speed handling than your enemy because eventually you will both end up at low speed and on the deck unless one of you breaks the scissors pattern.

I just had a deja vu.
I know this situation very well.
From time to time, my 109g10 changes its status from hunter to victim in a few seconds while chasing a 190.

Ecke

[Batz]

mane means stick stir like mad......

Find Urchin he will show ya all ya need to know about 190s.

[pugg666]

and try the A5 with the 2 cannon option, very fun

[Ecke-109-]

Yes,

190a5 seems to be the toughest 190 while fighting in 109g10.

[beet1e]

Batz!  Just noticed your sig - LOL!  Long time no viddy, Droog. How goes?

Ecke - yes, the 109 and 190. Two very different planes. I would say use the roll rate of the 190. It's got much better elevator response than the 109 especially at high speed. I like to get directly above a con, then dive down. If the con turns, you can "roll" in the vertical plane as to exit the dive in the direction of your choosing. It's a B&Z plane. Unlike the 109G10, it's OK to dive it like this at quite high speed.

If only I'd known you were looking for film. I had a good session in an -F8 earlier. Start out with the A5 though. It's the entry model! - and the fastest to 20K.

[Ecke-109-]

Hey Beetle,

if you have 190 films with pregnant sequences, i would like too see them. Films should be <2.5mb.

In a coalt situation 1vs1 head to head, my mainproblem is:
After first merge, i can do what i want. I can go in a tight turn or a wide highspeed turn.I can fly them vertical or horizontal. Whenever i finished the turn to continue the fight, this damn enemyfighternose is already pointing straight in my eyes.
And that makes it really hard to come behind him.
Maybe that sounds silly. I notice this effect only when flying in 190.
By the time you can call it paranoia.


Ecke

[Grimm]

The FW is best used as an Energy Fighter,   What that means is using and retaining its energy to wear down your opponets energy to a level that you have him at your mercy.  

This means using the Vertical,  High yo yos and low yo yos.   FWs love to burn up energy when making High G turns. Its Very much like BnZ.   Each Pass is made with the thought of gaining angels on your opponet.   Normal the first pass or two are not intended for the kill unless he doesnt react.  

Later when you have begun to get into a firing postion, you will have chances for some snap shots.   If the fight continues long enough,  you will be able to use the high energy consumption of a FW to aid you in getting a good shot.  

E fighting is often a mixture of BnZ and TnB but managing your energy level as you fight.    

Damb I just wish I could get the hang of it  

[beet1e]

Ecke - after all the help you have given me with 109, I'd be glad to do anything I can to help you with 190.

I found the 190 a challenge, but easy to learn once having developed the mindset for it. But the 109? I struggled with it for years.

[SLO]

other peoples stick stirring seems to confuse you ecke......your a good pilot....I've fought you plenty of times in your 109


your trouble is exactly that....always 109

let them stick stir like gofaster seems too like.....I woulda stayed on top of em in pony and let him bleed all his E.....A8 low no speed is dogmeat......

even if urchin shows ya a few moves.....trust me.....they can be taken care of.....ya gotta fly em all too now what gives and what doesn't.....I'll fight any 190 in Pony.....toughest is A5....for first 2 or 3 moves....

rolls and scissors is whats best in 190.....