Author Topic: An Average Joe On the Situation in Iraq (Read 3064 times)

Zippatuh · « **Reply #60 on:** July 16, 2003, 08:45:47 AM »

Toad,

I know the elections are coming up and regardless of what “inconsistencies” surface I understand that you can only act on what information is being given. I also happen to believe that he may be the best leader for the current situation. Don’t get me wrong, I like the guy, he just scares the crap out of me sometimes. There’s probably a 90% chance I’ll vote for the guy again.

I like people that make decisions and then stick to it. Even if the decision is later found to be wrong and I’m not saying that I think this whole situation was wrong. I’m arguing perception.

I sincerely hope that what you have posted from a friend and what wulfie has to say is accurate and correct. If the people are truly being won over and it is just the few bad guys left trying to stir the pot then that can be taken care of. What’s being portrayed by the press though is different. And I know sex and violence sell ad time.

I still believe though that, even if you are correct, if we do not find some type of hard, strong, and believable evidence of WMD program, meaning containers for bio or chem. weapons we will have won the battles but ultimately lost the war.

The Iraqi people can love us, which would be tremendous. It looks like they need help; I want to help them but the world community will only look at us as opportunists. Doing what’s right, believing what’s right, and knowing what’s right in the end will get us no where if the rest of the world thinks we did this for nothing other than vengeance or money.

I know our new foreign policy is basically we do not need your approval, far different from the Clinton days. We really can’t snub everybody all the time though. Sooner or later that will come back to bite us in the arse.

How many times has someone accused you of lying when you were telling the truth but had no way to back it up? Have you ever done something that was right before but seen by others as a mistake or an error? I think this is very similar but on a much grander scale.

I really kind of see myself as an isolationist when it comes to our foreign affairs but if we’re going to play with the other children… Well, we need to show the knife Bobby had after we beat him up on the playground otherwise we’ll end up in detention instead of Bobby.

Arfann · « **Reply #61 on:** July 16, 2003, 08:45:52 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
1 Actually, I was encouraged to distribute it widely.

2While you were in VN, did you ever use the word "gook"?

3 But obviously, it couldn't possibly be true. After all, it doesn't fit your idea of what's going on there. You've been closely watching CNN after all.

1. Proof that it is not authentic.

2. Of course not. We always said, "Here come those silly old Vietnamese insurgents again!" and "It just really is inconvenient when they mortar the NCO club!" Twit! Of course you use that kind of language troop to troop.

3. I've no idea "what's going on there", since I'm not there. I just believe that whatever Dubya's fanboys say is going on is pure BS and I question the veracity of your "on sight" report. I don't watch CNN, Fox, or MSNBC. They're all just talking heads looking for ratings, preaching to the choir.

Zippatuh · « **Reply #62 on:** July 16, 2003, 08:53:25 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Maniac
Yesterday on Swedish TV they showed U.S troops complaining about the situation in Irak, and wanting to go home allredy...

Dont want to start an fight here, i dunno wich news agency interviewed the troops...

They’re talking about the mechanized units that were there from the very beginning which has been about 10 months.

They’ve been in normal combat and had to then deal with the current situation. Everyone wants to come back home from the field. Hell, I had troops that cried after 7 days in a 3 week exercise. Absence of showers, regular cable TV, a soft mattress, sex, and a McDonalds, I would say they want to come home but that’s not really an indication of their morale.

When they start questioning orders, not complaining or griping, but questioning then you’ll know morale is down.

Toad · « **Reply #63 on:** July 16, 2003, 09:02:51 AM »

Zip, I essentially agree with all you posted there. No major differences, except that IF it becomes clear the WMD issue was a "put up job" I won't vote for him again.

Toad · « **Reply #64 on:** July 16, 2003, 09:06:58 AM »

1. Comes to me from the best commander I ever had or even met in the service, flag rank.

2. So what you pick out of the article to quote and use to disprove it... a lack of political correctness... is something you yourself did?

3. So, you admit you have no clue what's going on, but you know what you want to believe?

Arfann · « **Reply #65 on:** July 16, 2003, 09:12:21 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
1. Comes to me from the best commander I ever had or even met in the service, flag rank.

2. So what you pick out of the article to quote and use to disprove it... a lack of political correctness... is something you yourself did?

3. So, you admit you have no clue what's going on, but you know what you want to believe?

Having reduced the opposition to nervous twitches and giggles GronK returned to the lair to await the next poseur.

_Schadenfreude_ · « **Reply #66 on:** July 16, 2003, 09:12:43 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Zippatuh
They’re talking about the mechanized units that were there from the very beginning which has been about 10 months.

They’ve been in normal combat and had to then deal with the current situation. Everyone wants to come back home from the field. Hell, I had troops that cried after 7 days in a 3 week exercise. Absence of showers, regular cable TV, a soft mattress, sex, and a McDonalds, I would say they want to come home but that’s not really an indication of their morale.

When they start questioning orders, not complaining or griping, but questioning then you’ll know morale is down.

The US army, from what I've seen, is extremely professional - I doubt if it will ever question orders - unless those orders are seen to be illegal. I do think though that they are beginning to feel badly used.

Having said that what does puzzle me is why the US don't hand over the whole thing to the UN - most countries have said they are quite willing to give troops but only under a UN mandate - why not do so and get out of the briar patch?

Nash · « **Reply #67 on:** July 16, 2003, 09:15:11 AM »

Toad, that email seems way less like an email to an old friend as it does a pretty slick work of public relations. It raises and swats away basically every single talking point of the war... the entire laundry list of issues... almost all of them making an apearance on this BBS. Not sure why you'd need to be lectured how this occupation in Iraq is different than that of Germany and Japan...

That kind of thing...

But it turns out you were encouraged to distribute this widely. May I ask what that guy's particular job is? Did he write that personally or attach the personal stuff to you at the end? It's a pretty good peice of writing, considering the intent...

... I had no idea things were quite that rosey.

Toad · « **Reply #68 on:** July 16, 2003, 09:17:16 AM »

Gronk, what time's your next stand-up appearance? Booked by Leno as yet?

Toad · « **Reply #69 on:** July 16, 2003, 09:23:23 AM »

Nash, it came to me from my last commander (retired, flag rank).

Came to him from one of his Active Duty compatriots. Was not written to either of these people but was passed around to some by the initial recipient.

I asked if it was OK to distribute it on a BBS, my commander said "sure, that's a good thing".

I consider that WIDE distribution, don't you?

Now, if you and Gronk want to believe I sat down and made it all up, addressing AH BBS comments point by point. Well, go ahead and believe that. There's nothing I can say to convince you, obviously.

That's how I got it and I posted it verbatim except for profanity and people/place names that could be used to track the writer. Seems to me the original writer may not have meant for the cities where his family lives to be posted on a world-wide BBS. If I were serving in Iraq even at a lower command level, I wouldn't want my name and family locations broadcast in a way that could be used by the folks I'm fighting to get to me. Paranoia? Maybe.. but I figure I owe him that small precaution, even if it is paranoid.

Zippatuh · « **Reply #70 on:** July 16, 2003, 09:24:41 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
The US army, from what I've seen, is extremely professional - I doubt if it will ever question orders - unless those orders are seen to be illegal. I do think though that they are beginning to feel badly used.

Having said that what does puzzle me is why the US don't hand over the whole thing to the UN - most countries have said they are quite willing to give troops but only under a UN mandate - why not do so and get out of the briar patch?

Used? I’m not sure about. I do think they believe their job is done. They battled the other military and won. Now it’s time to come home and let the politicians deal with it. Soldiers are usually straight forward. “Blow it up or don’t blow it up. Call me when you want it blown up.”

From what I understand the French have still vowed to veto any resolution that would put UN troops in Iraq. That’s probably what is stopping the mandate from even being proposed on the floor. For them I think it does come down to money. I think they want certain assurances of contracts before they’ll agree in the UN.

Arfann · « **Reply #71 on:** July 16, 2003, 10:34:15 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
Gronk, what time's your next stand-up appearance? Booked by Leno as yet?

Gronk quietly accepts the victory trophy and shuffles modestly back to the lair.

Arfann · « **Reply #72 on:** July 16, 2003, 10:37:11 AM »

Quote

Now, if you and Gronk want to believe I sat down and made it all up, addressing AH BBS comments point by point. Well, go ahead and believe that. There's nothing I can say to convince you, obviously.

[/B]

It's that nervous little laugh, man. Gives you away every time. Gotta find a way to control that iffen yer gonna bamboozle the wary.

Toad · « **Reply #73 on:** July 16, 2003, 10:39:51 AM »

It's not a nervous laugh, it's the good old fashioned full out laugh.

The same kind that comes out when somebody refers to themselves in the mythical third person singular.

Arfann · « **Reply #74 on:** July 16, 2003, 10:41:43 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Zippatuh
Used? I’m not sure about. I do think they believe their job is done. They battled the other military and won. Now it’s time to come home and let the politicians deal with it. Soldiers are usually straight forward. “Blow it up or don’t blow it up. Call me when you want it blown up.”

From what I understand the French have still vowed to veto any resolution that would put UN troops in Iraq. That’s probably what is stopping the mandate from even being proposed on the floor. For them I think it does come down to money. I think they want certain assurances of contracts before they’ll agree in the UN.

I suspect most countries are going to say, " You made the mess, you clean it up!"