v1.04r1....The Good and the Bad...my opinion only

[Badger]

Hi all.......

Hmmm....sorry guys.....

I never meant to start such a big "kafuffel".......

As my subject title stated, I simply wanted to pass on my enthusiastic opinion to HTC and yourselves as to the "fun factor" and game playability of v1.04r1, but also express some personal observations about the increasing profanity and (IMHO) degrading behavior I've observed on Channel 1 for the last few weeks.  I had taken some time off to enjoy the WB WWII arena, so when I got back here to try v1.04r1, I did distinctly notice a decline in manners that wasn't happening about a month ago.

I really didn't think I was expressing an opinion that was out of sync with the cultural standards of this community and I certainly wasn't proposing establishment of a "Gestapo", or the creation of a new bible thumping religion.  By the way Mox, I completely understood the context of your thoughts and agree about the dangers of "zealots", whether they be religious or not.  I appreciated the feedback. <S>

I did get a little reactive to creamo (sorry about that partner...<S> ) and I do respect his or anyone's rights to express deliberate irreverence to the current standards of anything, using a healthy "obligation to dissent" opinion style.  Heck, I lived through the best of those times in the 60's with a huge anti-establishment and anti-cultural backlash to the mainstream thinking.

I do note that the Terms of Subscription agreement we all virtually signed when we joined, does not condone this kind of behavior.  This was supported by Hitech on-line when I observed him "eject" an individual for unacceptable behavior, so I have to assume besides the terms agreement, it also doesn't meet his own personal standards.  Realizing that he can't be on-line 7x24, I just thought it would be a good idea to extend his empowerment through additional "staff" monitors in order to provide more consistency of these standards than we currently have.

Apparently, it wasn't a good idea, so I withdraw the thought and leave it to the community or HTC to ponder a better solution.

Thanks to all who expressed their support or opposition to the concept.

By the way, it is interesting to note that in an abstract way, we already have pseudo monitors on this BBS.  You've all seen those members who have adopted a self appointed role in threads of attempting to control the content.  They are most recognized by either starting threads that would be clearly divisive, then jumping in as a referee, or attempting to marginalize others who have expressed an opinion that differs from their own.  Be careful of this pattern.  It is also relatively new to AH's BBS world and will lead this board down a path of discussion deterioration.

Again, focus on the "glass is half full" element of my point.

<S> HTC for v1.04r1.  Even with a generalized MA I still disagree with, it has restored some real fun for me in AH as a game.

Regards,
Badger

Looking for a different kind of environment to discuss your favorite on-line flight simulator?
 http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline



[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 09-20-2000).]

[MrSiD]

You, in AH, seem to have a problem very similar to the one that people on IRC are experiencing every day. There will always be users online who are a) mentally impaired b) kids c) stupid d) just plain rude individuals.. For this purpose all the channels have channel operators, who rule and control the discussion for the benefit of the majority. All misbehaving users get swiftly removed from the channel and banned if they repeat the offences. This has proved to be a very working system so maybe it would be possible to create a similar system to AH via voting. Those 'ops' could remove misbehaving users from the public channel. The remaining problem of private insults can be handled then easily with .squelch or .ignore whatever system will be effective.
Just my $20's worth  

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mrsidl
43rd RAF Duxford wing 'British bulldogs'

[Kats]

I personally don't understand what the fuss is about by just censoring unacceptable use of language. I don't think it is a free speach issue, it is just like prime time TV - no one seems to take exception to the standards placed on them.

I would code the system that if if an unexceptable word was used, the whole sentence would be deleted on-line.

Another thing I would like to add is that these types of games are extremely competative, frustrating, and adrenaline pumping. It is certainly easy to see how people (especially newbies) can "lose it" on the text buffer. Isn't this what makes the game great? Nothing against the guys that lose it, it is just that it puts me on edge when someone goes on and on. I don't think pitting the community against eachother is the solution, so my vote is for "auto censore".

[Maniac]

"it is just like prime time TV - no one seems to take exception to the standards placed on them."

I think USA is one of the only countries where cussing is not allowed on TV.

"I would code the system that if if an unexceptable word was used, the whole sentence would be deleted on-line."

Dont you all remember the WB system? when certain words would come out scrambled like @#?!%

Regards.

[Ripsnort]

Hey Spitboy, alittle sensitive as usual there eh Sport? Hehe, my post about AGW and the quote within was pertaining to the LW  vs Allied whining, don't get your panties in a bunch.  

As far as you're not coming to AH?  Thats like MG saying he won't be coming, so, enjoy whatever flight sim you're flying these days  

[Mox]

 

Originally posted by Badger:
By the way Mox, I completely understood the context of your thoughts and agree about the dangers of "zealots", whether they be religious or not.  I appreciated the feedback. <S>

Badger, You're a class act man Salute!  I tend to ramble sometimes and for a while I thought maybe you had misunderstood what I was getting at.

See you up there!

Mox

[Pyro]

 

Originally posted by Badger:

I do note that the Terms of Subscription agreement we all virtually signed when we joined, does not condone this kind of behavior.  

Actually, there is nothing in the subscription TOS that governs behavior.  We just leave ourselves the right to boot people off the service.  And that is something we will do if necessary.


6. Either you or HiTech Creations may terminate your HiTech Creations membership at any time, with or without cause.


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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

[Badger]

Sorry Pyro....

I stand corrected....

I had assumed that profanity and/or racial slurs such as what "ripsnort" mentioned witnessing in another thread, fell under Section 11 shown below, but indeed you are correct.  If HTC chose to condone that activity, than by definition of the current service agreement it would no longer be considered "system abuse".

Let me know when that latter ever becomes the case so I can cancel my account.  

Thanks for the clarification.

11.  Subscribers are expressly prohibited from engaging in any activity that constitutes, in the sole opinion of HiTech Creations, system abuse.

Regards,
Badger

Looking for a different kind of environment to discuss your favorite on-line flight simulator?
 http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline

[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 09-20-2000).]

[Wanker]

Well, it seems apparent to me from HiTech's post in that other thread that he doesn't condone that type of behavior. It would be nice to have a clarification, however,  of what is HTC's official position on profanity and other "naughty" language.

[Ripsnort]

 

Originally posted by banana:
Well, it seems apparent to me from HiTech's post in that other thread that he doesn't condone that type of behavior. It would be nice to have a clarification, however,  of what is HTC's official position on profanity and other "naughty" language.

HT demonstrated their stance Monday, after asking the offending gentleman to watch his language, shortly after he said "F%##% you too HT" he was immediatly booted.

[Pyro]

I'm not stating that we do condone such behavior, we don't.  Our course of action in such cases is what I outlined above in our discretion.



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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

[Badger]

Of course Pyro, I never meant to imply HTC would ever condone such behavior.  My apologies if my comments left you with that impression.

I was trying to suggest perhaps a modification to the agreement, that clarifies acceptable standards from HTC's point of view, as it is currently a little vague and open to a lot of interpretation.

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"

Regards,
Badger

[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 09-20-2000).]

[Spitboy]

 

Hey Spitboy, alittle sensitive as usual there eh Sport? Hehe, my post about AGW and the quote within was pertaining to the LW vs Allied whining, don't get your panties in a bunch.

Not sensitive at all. I was just pointing out that there's a whole lotta whining going on over here, and maybe you should worry more about THAT than the mild arguments going on over at AGW. For a year now I've been seeing you post everywhere you can how this sim has the friendliest, bestest community anywhere. By and large there's a lotta good people here, but judging from the posts and what I saw in the arenas during my trial, there's a smaller element that's destroying that aspect of AH. It's good to see HTC taking some action.

 

As far as you're not coming to AH? Thats like MG saying he won't be coming, so, enjoy whatever flight sim you're flying these days

What, you're saying I'm not welcome here? Well, now that's a friendly community for ya! Or maybe you have a problem with reading comprehension? I tried my two-week trial on my new Athlon TBird earlier this month. HiTech even killed me once, after I snagged two NIKs, which I'm sure put a smile on his face   I haven't decided if it's worth getting an account yet, if you'd taken the time to read my whole post before your knee-jerk reaction flared up.

Spitboy -SW-

[Apache]

Spitboy, you are, by all means, welcome here. We certainly do have our (bobn) element  , but I don't think the destruction of AH is iminent. I would venture to say it will be here for quite a while once we get thru our growing pains just as we did in CK/WB.

j/k bobn!

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Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site

[Ripsnort]

 

Spitboy:...maybe you should worry more about THAT than the mild arguments going on over at AGW.

Well, I don't worry too much about any community since the communities usually take care of themselves..and since I play both sims, I find the LW conspiracy thing entertaining, on both sims.

 

Spitboy:For a year now I've been seeing you post everywhere you can how this sim has the friendliest, bestest community anywhere.

Funny, my first post was January, I count 9 months, and my posts regarding communities were merely saying that our community was an equal, not better, why would I say better? Most of my original squadron is flying WB's?
That would be a dis to them.

 

Spitboy:
By and large there's a lotta good people here, but judging from the posts and what I saw in the arenas during my trial, there's a smaller element that's destroying that aspect                   of AH.

You may *think* its destroying that aspect of AH, just as we thought it may be destroying the WB community years ago, but alas, WB still lives today, doesn't it?

 

Spitboy:What, you're saying I'm not welcome here? Well, now that's a friendly community for ya!

Text does me no justice, my point is comparable to a 5 gallon bucket of water, put your hand , now pull it out, notice any difference in the level of water?  In other words, if you don't come in, 3 more from other flight sims do.

Good to see you at least give it a try, after all, you and MG had a good tag team flame fest going on against AH back earlier this year, glad to see there is some optimism in you. Welcome.