Author Topic: school vouchers (Read 4173 times)

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #135 on:** September 09, 2003, 05:48:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by fd ski
Hold on, so let me get this right: vouchers are for poor so that they can go to a private school ?

No, the voucher system takes the money allotted to schools, and divides it among the students who would be attending the schools.

The students (read parents of) could then spend this allotment for education. The money follows the students, and the students then have the power of the consumer to buy the best product.

Schools would then be forced to compete for market share thereby encouraging the product to improve.

capt. apathy · « **Reply #136 on:** September 09, 2003, 07:31:28 PM »

Quote

The real acid test is when ALL the kids attend private schools

who would want that? I don't believe I've read any posts calling for the dismantallint of the public education system (I may have missed it, there are 4 pages of posts here)

my hope would be when faced with some direct competition public schools would feel an urge to compete

Kieran · « **Reply #137 on:** September 09, 2003, 07:35:11 PM »

You don't believe losing dollars will have an impact on public schools? You don't believe people will scream to have schools closed (thereby saving tax dollars)? We are seeing schools close already because of budget shortfalls. Those kids will HAVE to go somewhere.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #138 on:** September 09, 2003, 08:04:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kieran
You don't believe losing dollars will have an impact on public schools?

I for one certainly hope so.

Just like any business, a school losing money would be forced to change. If they can turn it around and improve their service, they will survive. If they cannot, then those schools will have failed.

The votes of the parents will have chosen which schools are to close.

An incompetant mechanic will lose his customers to a better mechanic, and the better mechanic's business will grow.

Same idea with education.

Fatty · « **Reply #139 on:** September 09, 2003, 08:04:50 PM »

Some would close and some should close.

You're right, they will have to go somewhere else. Likely to a public school in a richer zoning, which seem to do quite fine under the current system.

And they will be better off for it.

Kieran · « **Reply #140 on:** September 09, 2003, 08:05:48 PM »

And just like the mechanic business, when the customer base cannot support expenses, it will die. When that happens, you have to drive to the next town to get your car fixed.

Kieran · « **Reply #141 on:** September 09, 2003, 08:07:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Fatty
Some would close and some should close.

You're right, they will have to go somewhere else. Likely to a public school in a richer zoning, which seem to do quite fine under the current system.

And they will be better off for it.

Who is going to bus them there?

Fatty · « **Reply #142 on:** September 09, 2003, 08:07:50 PM »

So it will be like now where the cars run better?

Fatty · « **Reply #143 on:** September 09, 2003, 08:09:03 PM »

Use the buses from the closed schools, heck you'll even keep the bus driver's jobs.

Seemed to work okay for segregation. Same thing, just economic this time.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #144 on:** September 09, 2003, 08:09:40 PM »

Don't get lost in the analogy... could be any business. Where there is demand, business will flourish.

Kieran · « **Reply #145 on:** September 09, 2003, 08:11:00 PM »

So you are going to make the school corporation, with even less dollars, bear the burden of transporting people further and further away. Hmmm....

...not to mention you will now increase the student/teacher ratio, which will without doubt negatively impact student performance. Hmmm...

Nope, I don't see any problems at all.

Fatty · « **Reply #146 on:** September 09, 2003, 08:22:56 PM »

We've got all the teachers we fired from the original school, Kieran.

Seriously, I started out in this thread actually in support of teachers and their unions, but you've about convinced me that people are right. They are starting to appear a serious obstacle to progress in education.

Kieran · « **Reply #147 on:** September 09, 2003, 08:25:27 PM »

You may have all the teachers, but you don't have the rooms you once had. Student/teacher ratios will go up.

Come to any conclusion you wish. If you've been supportive, I must have missed it.

Kieran · « **Reply #148 on:** September 09, 2003, 08:28:56 PM »

Let me be serious too, then... does it not strike you as odd that all the teachers, or people with teaching experience, are basically telling you the same thing?

capt. apathy · « **Reply #149 on:** September 09, 2003, 08:29:08 PM »

Quote

You don't believe losing dollars will have an impact on public schools? You don't believe people will scream to have schools closed (thereby saving tax dollars)? We are seeing schools close already because of budget shortfalls. Those kids will HAVE to go somewhere.

but they are loosing students at the exact same ratio that they are loosing dollars. so the public schools loose nothing. say they loose half their kids to public schools and loose half the money, whats the problem.

sure there'd be lay-offs, but hey good news, private school's hiring, maybe you can get a job there.

Quote

And just like the mechanic business, when the customer base cannot support expenses, it will die. When that happens, you have to drive to the next town to get your car fixed.

but if the machanic in your town wasn't doing a good job working on your car (you know forgets to pack the bearings and such resulting in an over-all crappy job), would you really mind traveling farther to get the job done if it was getting done right?

sure, it would be great if you could get it done right in your home town, but around here at least, it's not getting done.

the situation we have now is a choice of sending it to the local mechanic who is not getting the job done, or taking it out of town to get it done, pay the out of town guy, and also pay the local mechanic even if you don't trust him to work on it and never let him touch your car (He, by the way is outraged that we want to take our cars and money elsewhere, why if he can barely keep the 200 cars that he works on now running with the money he has now, how will he ever get the job done when half those people take there cars and money elsewhere).

that leaves the people (most of us) who can only afford to pay one mechanic to fix our car stuck with the guy doing a lousy job.
and the ***** of it is that it will go on for generations because if I can't afford to pay double for automotive services(to get the qualified mechanic**), then my car wont likely be dependable making my arival at work undependable. this keeps me in lower paying jobs so I will only be able to afford a crappy car worked on by the lousy mechanic for my kid, and he will be stuck in the same situation.

**the public school system is unqualified, not a statement of individual teachers. some are great, some suck