Author Topic: Iraq: A Federal Judge's Point of View (Read 2895 times)

Gadfly · « **Reply #45 on:** September 18, 2003, 01:19:11 PM »

Of course, but since he said he would clean his room, I figured I would do his poor parents a favor.

-dead- · « **Reply #46 on:** September 18, 2003, 01:21:34 PM »

Call me an old cynic - but I'd be really surprised if three Americans (or Brits) in suits wandering around Iraq talking to "a few hundred Iraqis" accompanied by "four Iraqis well-armed with 9mm hand guns and AK47's" and some "help" from "First Armored Division (UK)" would get anything other than a rosy view of their country's occupation of Iraq.

I mean, it doesn't take much of a leap to posit that the Iraqis are well versed in the art of telling a set of suits accompanied by a load of heavily armed guys and maybe a tank or two exactly what they think the suits 'want' to hear. Any Iraqis who didn't have this skill will have been "disappeared" by Hussein's lot. And if that's all you've been used to, then just because the guys who invaded your country say they're your friends, and that you can talk freely doesn't mean you're going to believe them - after all that's probably pretty much exactly what Hussein's lot said.

I reckon the jury's out on this one - I don't trust anything CENTCOM says without serious corroboration from other sources, and IMO anyone who does is seriously naive (and may also be interested in buying the Golden Gate Bridge off me). I don't much believe the media either.

We won't find out what's really going on in Iraq for at the very least a couple of years - or more likely decades (at least the US Gov't's documents on it - you can forget the UK gov't stuff - the UK has way too secretive a gov't system). That said, IMO you certainly won't find out what's going on running around asking people questions with a bunch of heavily-armed guys standing next to you.

One final little nagging detail abut the judge's piece - it might just be a scanning issue, of course - but why can't he get the name of the administrator of the Coalition Provisional Authority right? It's Bremer not Brenner.

Udie · « **Reply #47 on:** September 18, 2003, 01:28:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by -dead-
Call me an old cynic - but I'd be really surprised if three Americans (or Brits) in suits wandering around Iraq talking to "a few hundred Iraqis" accompanied by "four Iraqis well-armed with 9mm hand guns and AK47's" and some "help" from "First Armored Division (UK)" would get anything other than a rosy view of their country's occupation of Iraq.

I mean, it doesn't take much of a leap to posit that the Iraqis are well versed in the art of telling a set of suits accompanied by a load of heavily armed guys and maybe a tank or two exactly what they think the suits 'want' to hear. Any Iraqis who didn't have this skill will have been "disappeared" by Hussein's lot. And if that's all you've been used to, then just because the guys who invaded your country say they're your friends, and that you can talk freely doesn't mean you're going to believe them - after all that's probably pretty much exactly what Hussein's lot said.

I reckon the jury's out on this one - I don't trust anything CENTCOM says without serious corroboration from other sources, and IMO anyone who does is seriously naive (and may also be interested in buying the Golden Gate Bridge off me). I don't much believe the media either.

We won't find out what's really going on in Iraq for at the very least a couple of years - or more likely decades (at least the US Gov't's documents on it - you can forget the UK gov't stuff - the UK has way too secretive a gov't system). That said, IMO you certainly won't find out what's going on running around asking people questions with a bunch of heavily-armed guys standing next to you.

One final little nagging detail abut the judge's piece - it might just be a scanning issue, of course - but why can't he get the name of the administrator of the Coalition Provisional Authority right? It's Bremer not Brenner.

*Delete according to political orientation

I think you're absolutely correct

That's the main thing that's been getting under my skin lately. 1/2 the freakin country is ready to, scratch that, has already convicted the prez of lying. Guess what, if it had been proved he lied about this, he wouldn't be president right now or he'd be in the middle of his impeachment.

Good Lord, it's only been 6 months since the war started. This instant gradification lifestyle we lead over here will be the death of us one day.

Thrawn · « **Reply #48 on:** September 18, 2003, 01:28:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AWMac
We?

Are you in the Military? If not then STFU pissant.

Oh please, pro-Bushians use "we" when referring to the militray in Iraq, even though they aren't in the military, all the time and you don't say chit. So why don't you STFU hypocrit.

Udie, I'm glad you can type out "intellectualy lazy and bankrupt", but your post clearly show that you don't have a clue what it means.

Go do a google search on "logic", "discourse", and "Fallacy".

Gadfly · « **Reply #49 on:** September 18, 2003, 01:31:29 PM »

Good points, dead, and I agree. You did catch the main thrust of his whole speech, though, right?

The Iraqis expect the U.S. to solve all of their problems, when in reality, they must accept that task. Our job was to get rid of Saddam, and provide security until their Government is established. We will of course provide as much support as possible, but until they make that mental leap, there will be no stable Iraq.

Udie · « **Reply #50 on:** September 18, 2003, 01:58:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Thrawn
Udie, I'm glad you can type out "intellectualy lazy and bankrupt", but your post clearly show that you don't have a clue what it means.

Sorry but I disagree. I think my usage of the terms were quite accurate. They maybe mispelled though

I've seen nothing from the left in years except lies and obstruction. Lambast the what the republicans are trying to do for our nation and then offer no alternatives. That is the apitamy of intillectual laziness and bankrupsy and dishonetsy. And once again I expect no liberal to understand what I'm talking about.

Frogm4n · « **Reply #51 on:** September 18, 2003, 02:29:03 PM »

I say we because this is my country just as much as it is yours or anyones else's. My tax dollars pay for that millitary to exsist. And i talked to God yesterday and he said bush is damned and will lose the next election.

Gadfly · « **Reply #52 on:** September 18, 2003, 02:30:26 PM »

Is your room clean?

muckmaw · « **Reply #53 on:** September 18, 2003, 02:32:29 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Frogm4n

The difference between iraq, japan, and germany(we are still in japan and germany btw.) Japan and Germany are not islamic. You have to understand that Islamic countrys do not want a democracy, and the only way iraq will ever be one is if we put them all in re-education camps and force it on them. Which is not democracy.

Was'nt Japan a country that worshipped an emperor as a God and never knew Democracy before. I believe there is a name for this type of government, but it escapes me at the moment. I believe it is Theocratic, but I'm not 100% sure.

Just curious, Frog, but exactly how old are you? I always thought you were my age, but others are alluding to the fact that you are much younger.

Frogm4n · « **Reply #54 on:** September 18, 2003, 02:32:32 PM »

pffft no

Gadfly · « **Reply #55 on:** September 18, 2003, 02:33:37 PM »

And I suppose you will also not be mature enough to say that you were wrong.

Frogm4n · « **Reply #56 on:** September 18, 2003, 02:35:51 PM »

im guessing your to young to remember that the emporer of japan came out and promoted a democracy after the war.

Well i guess that would work in iraq to as soon as we get allah to come out from whatever rock it lives in and promote democracy.

Well ill admit that i was wrong when i made the statement that the UN said they had no WMD's. But it also looks like those statements contain alot of ifs maybes' and mights. And remember we were the ones to pull blix out of iraq the last time around.
In the long run displaceing saddam was the right thing to do, but i still think the way we went about it and the timeing was absolutely terrible.

Gadfly · « **Reply #57 on:** September 18, 2003, 02:37:24 PM »

Child, I tire of you, but perhaps you should should study a bit more on the treaty terms that ended the war.

Now Go clean your room, or no more Justin Timberlake CD's for you!

Frogm4n · « **Reply #58 on:** September 18, 2003, 02:41:00 PM »

whatever gadfly, if all you can do is rag on me for being in my mid 20's then i pitty you.

muckmaw · « **Reply #59 on:** September 18, 2003, 02:44:17 PM »

Frog,

I doubt many people on this board are old enough to remember the end of WWII.

I asked you a simple question to which you, as per the norm, must repond with a wise arnold comment.

Gadfly is correct. You are a child.