Gun Ownership Saves Lives!

[Gixer]

I'd like to know the genuine statistics (and not some NRA wishfull thinking) of cases where having a gun in ones home to defend themselves has saved them from possible injury/death.

Compared to the statistics where people have been injured or killed due to the easy availibility of guns to everyone.



...-Gixer
~Hells Angels~

Originally posted by lazs2
siaf..  I have no idea where you live but  I still stick by my statement that we have just as little white middle class gun crime as you do.

If I lived in england I would indeed be worried about people breaking into my home while I was home... I don't worry about that because of firearms ownership in America.   If you had the guts to say where you lived I could perhaps point out why you were being foolish to not want to protect yourself or think that you are better off that your neighbor doesn't have a gun.    I doubt that no one gets robbed beaten or becomes the victim of a violent crime in your country.

I don't "worry" about it.... I like guns anyway so being able to protect myself with one is a bonus.   There are certainly times when I do worry tho... some places in the States that it is prudent to be armed.

As for monaco... so... you admit that socialism drives people away then?   The pruductive ones in any case?
lazs

[lazs2]

The FBI stats are that at lbetween 600,000 and 1.5 millon times a year guns are used in preventing crimes in America.   So far as I know those are the best stats.

So far as the NRA goes...   Their record so far as accuracy in reporting is far better than any other source I have ever seen.   They tend to get their facts right.   Considering the volumn of facts and quotes that they put out there they have an amazing record...  the anti gun crowd has a dismal record... mostly they can't print one solid paragraph that isn't rife with easily checked up on errors.    The NRA prints a full size magazine (2 actually) every month.

Belive me... there are sissy liberal groups that pore over every word in those magazines looking for factual errors.

Have you ever read an NRA magazine?  I will be glad to send you one if you email me with the information... I would let you decide for yourself.    Wouldn't hurt you a bit to know what you are talking about eh?
lazs

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by lazs2
"As for all the women taking our guns, where I work one of the requirements is to have a firearms license and to carry shotguns in our vehicles....hrmmm wonder why my wife hasn't tried to take them all away!?!?!!! "

hmm... you make it sound like you have rights and then you explain that no.... the guns are ornamental and that they only reason you have the shotgun is because your outfit is too cheap to suppy you with some other kind of noisemaker.
Wow..... you may even get to fire a live round once in a while!   do you have to get permission from your women and fill out forms first?

so... how did yu vote?   did you agree with the women that you would be safe from insane people if you turned in your guns?   Did you turn in any guns to be destroyed by your government?

good thing you all regestered your guns so that the govenment had no trouble rounding em all up eh?
lazs

I didn't need to turn in any guns, because I don't have want any, despite the aparent 4 inch advantages.

I voted labour actually, but then because it was a universally agreeable thing to have our current guns laws, that wasn't even an issue during elections. There is a shooters party, but they didn't get enough votes to get a seat in the lower house.
Although I did read the NSW state liberal party is going to have a mandatory prison sentence (in a maximum security jail) of at least 5-10 years for possesion of a banned firearm as one of their polices in the next election.

As for the shotguns, the airport has some very effective gas powered noisemakers, but you can't actually use them for pest control...and live rounds are a last resort because we don't particulary like shooting Ibis, owls, or other large birds....AND it is after all safe enviroment we're trying to maintain...not a shooting range (or I could just join the Qantas pistol club for that).

I guess thats what responsible firearm use is all about...

 Tronsky

[lazs2]

LOL trotski... you just said that you don't have a clue about what gun ownership is about.... responsible or not.... you never owned one..

what you did was vote to take someone elses rights away because you didn't care about their rights and you had an emotional, womanly reaction to someone elses hobby/right.

You screwed them allright but you screwed yourself and anyone born in your family who might have known what it really was to be a gun owner.  

You are now contemplating draconian laws to enforce your "ban"...   Somehow... talking to you makes me feel like I'm not talking to a real aussie... least not one I would want to be around..  

Curval... Isn't high taxes.... socialism?
lazs

[lazs2]

Oh... for the Americans here that think the NRA is paranoid.... read the little commies posts...   they passed a law to ban firearms in their country... passed by people who live in large cities...  womanly men and women... they used the REGISTRATION of firearms to round up all the guns and then they friggin destroyed em...

Now... they are working on laws that will make the mere possesion of a firearm a prison sentance of 10-20 years?  

And the NRA is paranoid?

The real paranoia is the the thing that the liberals and big govenment feed on when they use the media to hype some shooting so that they can have more control over the populace... they feed on the paranoia of the ignorant and emotional.  

They realize that these women and womenly type vote and think on the spur of the moment depending on emotion or cycle... they know that no research will be done by these emotion driven folks and they hate any group (such as the NRA) who would tone down the rhetoric with fact.

If you regestered a gun in australia... you are screwed.  If you live out in the boonies.... the women in the cities took away your rights and means of defending yourself.

In australia... only criminals have guns.   Oh... and the government (that's a comforting thought eh?)

lazs

[cpxxx]

Ah the old gun debate again. Actually I don't think the original example beginning the thread is a good one, after all 8 people were killed by the teacher who presumably was a gun owner!

As I've said before I'm not not not against guns but I do believe in some form of control quite simply to prevent the above scenarios.  There'll never be a meeting of minds here. In America it's a right. That's not true of anywhere else. In Europe, Australia, New Zealand etc there is heavier gun control and it works.  Not only that it's a popular option and there is no debate. Every story of a massacre in  a school or office coming out of the US reinforces the perception that they have the balance right. Sure criminals have guns but  gun deaths are still low and the likelyhood that your neighbourhood mugger or burglar has a gun is infinitesimal.  It may surprise you Lazs and others that much of Europe's gun control is at least in part driven by episodes like Columbine.

I do believe the balance is wrong in the US, too many guns in the wrong hands because of the relatively easy availability. But in fact in most of America gun crime is minimal just like in countries with tougher gun controls.

It is as much a society issue. If you have a gun for defence, rather than fun and sport. Then you have to ask yourself:

What is wrong with the society I live in, if I feel I have to own a gun to feel secure in my own house? Why do I feel I need protection from my fellow citizens or even a democratically elected governnent?  Why is crime such an issue that I need a gun to protect myself?

That's the real issue. You need to be working for a society where you only own guns because they are fun or you like to hunt.  

I'd be interested in your view on that Lazs.

In general most countries in Europe etc have got the balance right. My own excluded, which even includes BB guns as firearms:eek:  But that as much as anything is a result of a long terrorist war not long ended.

[Siaf__csf]

Good post cpxxx.

I was trying to ask lazs2 the same, but since he's obviously lived in fear all his  life he can't understand how we feel about things. He lives in a world full of threats, government conspiracy and evil evil commi.. er socialists lurking behind every other turn. It would be comic if it wasn't (apparently) so true.

I would never want to live in an enviroment where I felt so unsafe that I'd need to resort in buying firearms for my personal safety. We have cops, they have guns and I have my cell phone in case trouble happens. In fact, a cell phone is often far more better tool for personal safety than any weapon.

Lazs2 does NRA tell how many gun owners get killed in process trying to defend their homes? Or how many gun owners get killed by their own weapon after the criminal ceises control of it and retaliates?

I bet those cases are kept very quiet.

[Godzilla]

Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Good post cpxxx.

I was trying to ask lazs2 the same, but since he's obviously lived in fear all his  life he can't understand how we feel about things. He lives in a world full of threats, government conspiracy and evil evil commi.. er socialists lurking behind every other turn. It would be comic if it wasn't (apparently) so true.

I would never want to live in an enviroment where I felt so unsafe that I'd need to resort in buying firearms for my personal safety. We have cops, they have guns and I have my cell phone in case trouble happens. In fact, a cell phone is often far more better tool for personal safety than any weapon.

Lazs2 does NRA tell how many gun owners get killed in process trying to defend their homes? Or how many gun owners get killed by their own weapon after the criminal ceises control of it and retaliates?

I bet those cases are kept very quiet.

I would hate to live in fear. Im sure glad I live in America!

[AKIron]

Sorry Siaf but you're inability or unwillingness to tell us where you live pretty much kills any credibility you might have otherwise when it comes to discussions of locale. Of course I speak only for myself but it's hard for me to believe that many others don't feel the same.

[lazs2]

exactly iron.... Where is this paradise that is so good that it is worth giving up basic freedom for?

look..  you guys ask what sort of society I live in that I fear armed criminals and my own government?  A free one.  an a place that I prefer to live.   The diversity and economy and opportunity are all things that I like but.... they contribute to some of the crime and cultural differences.

fear?  caution and preparedness is not fear.   taking away your own and your fellow mans rights is fear.

the cesspool that is europe is not what I want to hear from.. The fact that you don't fear your own or your neighbors governments just proves that you are unable to learn from your own gory history.  

Bottom line... opportunity and freedom come at a price... in the case of firearms it is a miniscule price.

To be driven by columbine it to be driven by emotion and to be manipulated....  

This is a great country to live in.... people don't flee here to go to your countries.... in fact.... this country is full of your countrymen who have fled.    Ask them if they are in fear of firearms....

bunch of brainless sissies.
lazs

[lazs2]

oh.. sciaf... I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering....  when you are being mugged.... do you think that hitting the perp with a cell phone is gonna work?   Maybe just brandishing the cell phone will be enough to scare em off?    

Or maybe.... he just  figures it's easier to just get all your money in the mail from your government than it is to actually steal it?   Probly tho... he just feels that everyone is about as poor as him so why bother.
lazs

[medicboy]

I have a question...   What is it with this left wing obsession with lowering the "gun death" rate?????   Lets see, we should all just let the criminals have what ever they want and do what ever they want, but hey, look here!  Our gun death rate is lower than yours!

Screw that!  Your laws accomidate the criminals and limit the right of the average citizen to defend them selves and their property just to be able to publish some numbers????

I'll be damed if I have to live in a place where I might go to jail for killing someone who breaks into my home!  They are there with the intent to do harm to my family...  What is your answer to this?  Tell me to run?  From my own home?!?!?!  Bull****!  a man has to have a place on this planet that he can draw a line in the sand and say no more!

Maybe that is the difference though, in the socialist countries they don't really own their stuff, didn't have to work for everything they have and don't care if some one breaks into the house the govt gave them,or steals the stuff the govt gave them the $ to buy.

[Toad]

NSW state liberal party is going to have a mandatory prison sentence (in a maximum security jail) of at least 5-10 years for possesion of a banned firearm

I'd love to see the list of crimes that have comparable mandatory sentence.

Wonder if you kill somebody with a sharp instrument and be out in less time.

[Toad]

Seems to be a huge misperception on the part of some of the "anti's" here.

I sure as heck don't own any guns because "I live in fear" or "I need to defend myself". Bought my first gun as a freshman in high school; that was some time ago. Bought a Ruger Mark I .22 semi-auto pistol. Had ONE thought in mind. I'm gonna go burn some .22's at paper targets and cans and have myself some FUN. I did too. Got to the point that my friends would no longer compete for money with me.

Never have bought a gun since to solve some perceived "fear factor" problem. I've always bought guns that I thought would be fun to own and shoot. Got a safe full of 'em now. Still shoot for fun and enjoyment, which includes hunting.

So hearing you guys tell me how I have guns because I'm "afraid" merely causes me to

And siaf.. I'll echo what Iron and Laz told ya. Your cute little "guess where I'm from" game merely generates a swift skim of your posts and a general lack of interest in your opinion on my part. Sorry, that's just the way it is. If you haven't got the gonads to declare your country so as to provide a frame of reference for your opinions... well, who cares then?

[lazs2]

ask beetle if we were shooting guns out of fear or fun.

I reload... I certainly don't need to handload to defend myself... in fact.. the box of hydoshoks I keep for defensive purposes is only about half gone and that from testing...  It is a fun hobby and, like toad I started out with a 22 pistol.

I guess if you never had a freedom you can't miss it.   Coming on here tho and trying to convince us that you are better off because you have less freedom is ludicrus.

As for the original example.... never heard of it.  one of the strangest I have ever heard of.   All those people and no one could get away from a shotgun weilder... Yu would think that everyone would have heard of a 9 person mass murder.... probly a myth.

Read the American Rifleman.... pick any month for decades.... look at the column called the armed citizen and pick any of the examples of legitimate uses of firearms for examples of firearms stoppong crime...  with between 3/4 to 1/12 million crimes stoped with firearms a year... they are by far the better examples

not some bizzare crazy person story from years ago dredged up by a guy that is no friend of gun ownership....  
lazs