Author Topic: Gun Ownership Saves Lives!  (Read 2248 times)

Offline drone

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 114
Gun Ownership Saves Lives!
« Reply #60 on: October 25, 2003, 06:22:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gixer
I'd like to know the genuine statistics (and not some NRA wishfull thinking) of cases where having a gun in ones home to defend themselves has saved them from possible injury/death.

Compared to the statistics where people have been injured or killed due to the easy availibility of guns to everyone.



...-Gixer
~Hells Angels~


Well I came qoute you the crime statistics from kennesaw Ga.....where there was a law at one time that you were to own a weapon in your house .....2.6% total crime rate...mostly drunk and disorderly, and a mary jane bust or 2.....hasnt been a murder here in 20 years -----We live 35 miles above Atlanta, only about 15 or so outside the perimeter. The criminals know not to come to Kennesaw.

Offline Siaf__csf

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2213
Gun Ownership Saves Lives!
« Reply #61 on: October 25, 2003, 07:15:01 PM »
Ouch I guess I hit a sore spot with the fear factor.

Where I live plays no factor in this discussion as it didn't earlier, so it's easyer to leave it unmentioned - saves the 'my country is better than yours' bs that always comes out of it. It's enough for you to know I live in europe - even that already raised slander with the 'more intelligent' participants in the discussion. :rofl
Just think the states of europe as the states of U.S. if you will.

I'm discussing sets of minds here. The fact that the mindstates are affected by residense and the crime situation there can't be avoided, nevertheless.

Lazs feels he needs weapons to protect his family. I don't. Fear on lazs part.

Lazs feels he can shoot a mugger with his sidearm. I don't see myself in a situation like that to start with. Last time I got in a situation like that I was 16 and drunk. Again, fear on lazs part.

Shooting an unarmed perp with a handgun would result in a jail sentence anyway most likely, not a very good solution. I'd try my chances running first. If the perp is armed with a knife, according to american gun magazines I've read your chances are next to nil if you try to make the pull. Again, not a very good solution.

Then again, if the perp has a sidearm? You can duel him out and see who wins? lol.. Wild west all over again? No thanks. I prefer him take my wallet and walk away. I don't carry any cash on me, only creditcards and they can be cancelled with 1 cell phone call. That is, if I'd think I'd get robbed in a public place, which I don't as it just doesn't happen except in very rare cases.

Toad: First of all, none of my posts were addressed to you. The world doesn't spin around your belly as much as you'd like it to. Therefore I did _not_ claim you own any of your guns out of fear. Lazs and people like him do.

As what goes for owning guns for hobby purposes, I've shot guns as a hobby also. My uncle owns several firearms and we've gone out on the range quite many times. (As you see, gun ownership isn't illegal here, takes only a background check and a permit. Still firearms are quite rare if you count out the hunters.)

Shooting is a fun hobby. However you must also understand the fundamental difference in lazs message - he feels he needs the weapon for his protection while I see I don't really need that kind of protection as the threat just isn't there. The few times I have witnessed trouble the law enforcement has handled the situation swiftly and efficiently.

So either your fears are valid and you do need a weapon to protect you, or you don't. Which way is it?

Offline medicboy

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 666
Gun Ownership Saves Lives!
« Reply #62 on: October 25, 2003, 07:22:31 PM »
Just FYI, I don't keep any of my guns where they are accessible.  They are in a fire proof safe as I feel my home is more likely going to fall victom to fire than a break-in.  This is because I chose where I live very carefuly.  The #1 reason I own firearms is hunting, #2, fun.

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Gun Ownership Saves Lives!
« Reply #63 on: October 25, 2003, 08:53:10 PM »
sci... you are talking out your butt... the statistics are that you are 2.6 to 7 times more likely to not be injured if you resist an attacker with a gun (depending on your gender).   If you shoot an unarmed burglar in your home you are in the clear if you can prove you felt threatened... if he is on your stairs then he is blocking your escape so he is paid for.   go ahead and run or hit him with your cell phone... hope he isn't younger or faster or tougher than you... for the old and infirm.... well.... serves em right eh?  women?  Women guess they can run or scream or just not fight.

In england the recomended course of action when your house is being burglarized while you are in the house is to hide and shiver.  sorry... gonna go with shooting the a hole.   In the U.S. if a aburglar is in your house when you are home he is most likely rabid since that doesn't happen here...  they are afraid of armed homeowners.

fear?  who is the person with fear?   the one prepared or the one hiding in his room hoping the bad guy will just take what he wants and go away?   I don't fear my fellow man... I don't fear him being armed.  Like I said... There is no more white middle class gun crime in my country thatn yours so.... fearing firearms is simply neurotic or.... bigoted..  would you have us not allow people of color the rigtht to own a gun or.... would you take guns away from everyone because of the few?  

Heck... we even have the occassional riot here.... the places defended with guns become "riot free zones".   everyone else is shivering with your so called "fear'.

So... I gotta ask... how long in your little country... from the time the bad guy says gimme all your stuff to the time you whip out the old cell phone.... how long befor the cops get there to make their report...  How long till the ambulance gets there?

You don't know anything about America or about guns.  I believe that is your loss.   Too bad you gave up your freedoms... Justify it any way you like.

Oh... and the fact that you are ashamed of where you live gives less credence to your attack on our way of life.
lazs

Offline Godzilla

  • Parolee
  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 285
Gun Ownership Saves Lives!
« Reply #64 on: October 25, 2003, 09:22:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Siaf__csf

Where I live plays no factor in this discussion as it didn't earlier, so it's easyer to leave it unmentioned - saves the 'my country is better than yours' bs that always comes out of it.  


What a cop out. My country is better than yours? LOL! Isn't that what you are doing? Why not let us know what country you live in? Ashamed?

It's all good to be able to take shots and make comments about our laws while no one is able to point out or research the laws of your country.

I can't think of one American on the BBS who would be ashamed to tell you he or she is from America.

If you are going to compare something about our country to yours, you need to let us know what country you are comparing us to. Otherwise you are talking out your rear.

Offline AKIron

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12686
Gun Ownership Saves Lives!
« Reply #65 on: October 25, 2003, 10:04:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Where I live plays no factor in this discussion as it didn't earlier, so it's easyer to leave it unmentioned - saves the 'my country is better than yours' bs that always comes out of it.  


Your location gives us a frame of reference for your perspective and helps us understand your point of view. But hey, you don't care if we give any credence to your views, your prerogative.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline -tronski-

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2825
Gun Ownership Saves Lives!
« Reply #66 on: October 26, 2003, 03:43:50 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
LOL trotski... you just said that you don't have a clue about what gun ownership is about.... responsible or not.... you never owned one..

what you did was vote to take someone elses rights away because you didn't care about their rights and you had an emotional, womanly reaction to someone elses hobby/right.

You screwed them allright but you screwed yourself and anyone born in your family who might have known what it really was to be a gun owner.  

You are now contemplating draconian laws to enforce your "ban"...   Somehow... talking to you makes me feel like I'm not talking to a real aussie... least not one I would want to be around..  

Curval... Isn't high taxes.... socialism?
lazs


Every australian govt. has gradually redressed and increased the firearm laws, including state and federal governments both the labour and liberal ones.
And because firearm laws have never been a election issue of any substance, I've never even had to consider that political parties stance on firearm ownership and use. And why?

Because what ever you think you know about real Aussies, most Australians are in favour of those laws.
So perhaps you have never known what a real Aussie is.

Quote
you just said that you don't have a clue about what gun ownership is about


I did?  Because I don't want a gun means I have no clue about it?
I did explain I am in an enviroment where guns are an accepted tool for my workplace, you got that right?
Hrmmmm....you do realise I can actaully buy a gun if I wished...or join a pistol club or gun club....perhaps I'm not the one with no real clue in this matter.

What concerns me is that you are living proof of every sterotypical gun toting American nut we see in the world, but  I know from talking to other americans ,that you are luckily not a typical american.

 Tronsky
God created Arrakis to train the faithful

Offline Mark Luper

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1626
Gun Ownership Saves Lives!
« Reply #67 on: October 26, 2003, 04:55:35 AM »
It's interesting to me the number of people on this BB that always try to equate the ownership of a firearm, certain brand of motorcycle, a SUV or truck with the length of one's genitals.

I wish it would work, I have to admit that an extra 4" would make the better half a happier woman ;) .

I can only speak for myself. I'm a gadget freak. I love most any kind of "gadget". Firearms, computers, motorcycles are the ultimate gadgets in my view. They can do so much and they are fun to mess with. Trucks and SUVs, of which I own one and my wife the other are very usefull vehicles and have paid for themselves with that utility time after time. I am fairly large for my age and most small vehicles are just plain crowded to me. I suppose if I always drove by myself and never had to carry anything then I could find comfort in something smaller assuming it was fairly sporty and roomy.

Scocialism is fine for those people that want it and as Toad has pointed out it's good those that like it have it. I personaly don't want it even if it means I have to struggle more to acheive the comfort level of life I want.

Freedom does require responsibility. Personal responsibility is something that has seemed to become passe in recent times and it is dissapointing to see how it has spread and been embraced by so many in this country. It is always someone else's fault.

I've rambled enough...
MarkAT

Keep the shiny side up!

Offline Siaf__csf

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2213
Gun Ownership Saves Lives!
« Reply #68 on: October 26, 2003, 04:58:09 AM »
First of all, many of you think you can just conveniently escape the discussion hanging on that last thread of hope of not knowing my nationality.. If you don't have answers to the issues, it's another thing. Escaping the discussion is another. As I said there's no need for the pissing contest I know there _will_ be. The first thing I will hear is the good old 'we bailed you out during WW2', then 'we gave your country foreign aid' and the list goes on. I've heard them all and they're still as dumb as they were when first stated.

Lazs: "There is no more white middle class gun crime in my country thatn yours so" Why do you keep repeating that mantra? What about black, hispanic, oriental etc. crime? You think you can conveniently just pick the group that has about normal crime rates and finish with the discussion? You know as well as I do that the burglar in your house will most likely not be white.

The fact remains I do not need a weapon to protect myself. You seem to do.

In fact, I don't know anyone who would even consider such a thing. I don't know anyone whose home would have got burglared. Only case to my knowledge was breaking and entry to a summer cottage which is empty during winter. Guns won't help there if you're away. Riots? There are no riots here.

You asked about the response time of the police, paramedics etc. They're typically about 15 minutes. I've called the police about 5 times in my lifetime, as a sidestander though as the cases were drunk driving etc. Or in one case as a result of a car crash.

As what goes with gun owning, registrated gun owning is fully possible where I live. Lazs want's to keep unregistered guns because he has a paranoia about the government. He fears the evil socialists will seize power in the U.S. and collect his precious toys away from him.

Heck, I'm all for guns as long as they're controlled. Mentally insane people should not be allowed to buy weapons, nor do convicted criminals. So if a perp is seen with a weapon there's always legit reason to get him arrested. There has to be control over leathal weapons.

Godzilla: I'm not ashamed of my country, quite the contrary. However as my views hardly represent the general public here, I have no need to speak as a representative of my country.

You already hate all euro's after Bush tried to bully them into the illegal Iraqi offensive and failed effectively breaking the old coalition in the process. An act that was quoted as 'a historical error.' Then your media wrote a few bad articles about france and everyone's opinnion now seems to be france is a bigger baddie than NK, Iraq or even Afghanistan. It's hilarious, just a few weeks ago they were your allies, now the biggest enemy and traitors. If the US wants to play the vigilante and pass UN judgement it has to do it alone, what did you expect? Russia already responded to this and took pre-emptive strikes to its military doctrine. I want to see the judgement they'll get on the first pre-emptive strike. :rofl

A few days ago someone posted a 'horror video' about a russian aircrew being shot down in afghanistan. People expressed compassion to the russian crews. They conveniently forgot that the russians were shot by a stinger which your government provided to the afghans free of charge and trained to use it. Before 9/11 or end of cold war the same video would have raised cheers as teh evil commies got shot down by your brave mujahadeen friends.

You're being yanked by the chain so bad.

Offline drone

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 114
Gun Ownership Saves Lives!
« Reply #69 on: October 26, 2003, 06:22:35 AM »
lol france--nothing more to say

Offline Siaf__csf

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2213
Gun Ownership Saves Lives!
« Reply #70 on: October 26, 2003, 06:31:17 AM »
drone I bet you don't even know what you're talking about. Have you ever left the soil of US?

Offline Curval

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11572
      • http://n/a
Gun Ownership Saves Lives!
« Reply #71 on: October 26, 2003, 07:09:47 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
I sure as heck don't own any guns because "I live in fear" or "I need to defend myself".

Never have bought a gun since to solve some perceived "fear factor" problem.

So hearing you guys tell me how I have guns because I'm "afraid" merely causes me to :rofl



First off...I'm not an "anti", as I have said many times on this BBS.  I just happen to live in a country where guns are simply not allowed.

Each time I mention this inevitably the "fear factor" is mentioned.

It isn't the "antis" that state that guns are necessary because of fear...it is the pro-gun posters who always fall back on the same old "crimminals are the only ones with guns" arguement and that we who live in countries without guns are the ones who should be afraid.  This argument suggests that the only way that pro-gun guys feel safe themselves is due to their ownership of guns.

It is a logical assumption based upon the pro-gun logic.

Of course then, convieniently, the argument switches to "we have guns because they are fun".  

This makes me :rolleyes:.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline Godzilla

  • Parolee
  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 285
Gun Ownership Saves Lives!
« Reply #72 on: October 26, 2003, 09:58:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Siaf__csf

Lazs: "There is no more white middle class gun crime in my country thatn yours so"  



I guess we have to beleive whatever you say about your country, since we don't know ( and you refuse to say) what country you are talking about and we cannot reference what you say or reseach it. How convenient.

You can basically make up whatever you want to say about your mythical country. Do you have wonderous dragons and great wizards were you live? Tell us more of this land.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2003, 10:02:11 AM by Godzilla »

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Gun Ownership Saves Lives!
« Reply #73 on: October 26, 2003, 10:03:48 AM »
look... read what mark wrote..  feedom needs responsibility... I am willing to accept responsibility in order to have freedom.

We will never agree because socialists trust their government...  truth is... Americans don't trust their government... we believe that is the way it should be.  

the funny part is... the socialists have less reason to trust theirs than we do... you all have such shocked looks on your faces when it all goes to ****e.... YU liked your french government in WWII?  that wasn't all that long ago?  short memory?

I think white crime is relevant..  why should we make laws based on the lowest of criminals.   Why don't you open up your borders?   I would rather have the diversity and a few riots now and then.  

sissies.... give up your rights and freedoms to feel secure... Americans don't understand that...

15 minutes to get a cop?  guess nothing bad could happen to yu in that short a time eh?

Aussies?  Guess i wil go with the 40% or more that voted agaisns you and the rest of the women trotski.   they don't hide in their cities begging their nanny government ot protect them no matter wht the cost.
lazs

Offline Curval

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11572
      • http://n/a
Gun Ownership Saves Lives!
« Reply #74 on: October 26, 2003, 10:23:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
sissies.... give up your rights and freedoms to feel secure... Americans don't understand that...


ROFLMAO!!!

Just have a look at how your "Homeland Security" plans to keep you all "safe".  It takes your freedoms and ditches them convieniently whenever a perceived threat comes along.

Good luck with that.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain