Most NEEDED new planes

[MajorDay]

BTW Charon, Im pretty sure that Aces High dont need a Russian TU-4 bomber, because I dont think TU-4 never been in the combat like P-36 "Peacekeeper" and TU-4 is a clone of Boeing B-29 "Superfortress" which Tupolev company copy the B-29 "Superfortress" sometime either before or after the WWII ended.  The Russian almost use TU-4 into the combat during the Cold war but the bomb raid has cancel the attack and return the base, TU-4 almost enter the combat.

[Capt. Pork]

The 3 b-29s that spurred the TU-4 project only reached Moscow in 1945, with the first first TU-4 being completed in 1947. According to several obscure but nonetheless reliable sources, WWII was over by then.

[MajorDay]

Originally posted by Capt. Pork
The 3 b-29s that spurred the TU-4 project only reached Moscow in 1945, with the first first TU-4 being completed in 1947. According to several obscure but nonetheless reliable sources, WWII was over by then.

Yup, One is Hap Arnold Special which Tupolev want that take all the part off and study them before copying the bomber.  The rest of the 2 B-29 bomber using them as a training, they later were scrap after cold war i believe.

[Capt. Pork]

My point was that the TU-4 is pretty much out of the running for AH because it was, in effect, the first Soviet Cold War bomber, rather than the last Soviet bomber of WWII. Of course, if HTC got REALLY ambitious, they might start a Cold War adjunct to the game... That's a whole new issue that we should probably avoid, however, as it will inevitably re-raise the question of A-bombs in AH.

[Charon]

The next aircraft update will face over a year’s pent up no new plane tension. All I’m trying to put together here (my agenda) is a list of planes that would minimize the whine factor by offering something useful for everyone. Remember the outrage over the Val and Kate, etc with that release?

Charon, according to your agenda, there are no planes left that can be modelled…  Let's face it - the only planes that are left to be modelled, are the hangar queens or CT/ToD planes. HTC began it's approach to modelling planes from the late years, and there are no more competitive planes left.

I generally agree. The Ki-84 is the only gaping fighter omission. But if the next release after 1.5 years centers around the Yak-7 (a personal fav. for some reason) and the Lagg-3, well, you know as well as I how most of the player base will receive the news. By the same token, I don’t think it’s appropriate to have something like the G-55 etc. (which many in the MA would likely prefer) before the Lagg-3 or KI-43.

The problem is that I don't agree that #2 serves a useful purpose for criteria (but I do appreciate you supporting the idea that an SCW enviroment - planeset and terrain - would be a practical addition to AH). The MA has all the planes it will ever need. All of the uber fighters (including the best and only widely used Jet). One of the best bombers of the war (the B-17 - arguments for the B-24 serve no purpose for it's addition to the MA). Two of the best tanks of the war are already in the MA (although there is a good argument in favor of the T-34 being superior, it wouldn't be enough of an advantage to warrant it's addition to the MA).

It’s not all about you, Arlo Or me. I don’t even fly bombers or fly in the CT that much, but three of my selection were to fill immediate holes for both of those types of players and cut down on some of the “balance” issue whining you read on the CT boards for the current late war setups. Immediate fixes for mid/late war setups before the long process can begin filling out the early/mid-war setups. You can do a lot of that too with the variants - P38 and as you guys have listed, the A6M3 would be on the list too. [edit: even early variants of the SBD and TBF to solve that huge imbalance that currently exists ]

My point was that the TU-4 is pretty much out of the running for AH because it was,

I meant TU2, I had TU4 on my mind from seeing that History Channel special recently. There was a move under way by Pyro to add the TU-2 a year or so ago that stalled for some reason.

BTW, my “What the hell” list would include (at least this minute):
B-24 - most produced bomber, major Pacific heavy bomber mid war.
B-29 - Most advanced bomber. Bomber that brought the fight to Japan and ended the war in a direct manner.
F8F -  hey, it was combat deployed, slap 100 perkies on it.
I-15 - Frank Tinker flew it
CR-32 - Something to shoot down with the I-15. Maybe a He-51 to make life easier.

Charon

[MajorDay]

Originally posted by Capt. Pork
My point was that the TU-4 is pretty much out of the running for AH because it was, in effect, the first Soviet Cold War bomber, rather than the last Soviet bomber of WWII. Of course, if HTC got REALLY ambitious, they might start a Cold War adjunct to the game... That's a whole new issue that we should probably avoid, however, as it will inevitably re-raise the question of A-bombs in AH.

Y'know, It funny that Joseph Stalin said after B-29 land at Russia, "Gift from the god" and I wonder why he said that lol.

[vorticon]

Originally posted by Charon
There have been a lot of aircraft laundry lists posted lately -- a veritable index listing from some Aircraft encyclopedia. While I hope that all the significant and insignificant WW2 planes are added someday, from a practical standpoint what are the critical holes in the planeset? What are the FIVE most pressing NEWadditions. Here’s the criteria:

1. The plane had to have seen at least somewhat significant service in WW2 -- No G55 perk planes.

2. It has to be basically competitive in the MA (on the order of a MC 205 or FW-190A8) -- no hanger queens.

3. It has to fill a reasonable role in the CT (most likely a late-war CT setup, given the preceding criteria).

4. You have to explain your choices.

Here’s my list:

1. Ki-84. Performance with low octane fuel not enough to be perked, usage numbers significant, great plane for the MA and great plane to fill out late war PAC CT setups.

yes most definatly as its performance rivals that of the p51 (but then again according to my sources so does the yak 9u's)

2. DO-217. The most significant “heavy bomber” from a country that did not promote strategic bombardment. The He-177 would be interesting as would the Ju-188, but the DO217 offers more than adequate MA performance with much greater historical significance for CT and scenarios.

...

3. TU-2. A toss up between this and the more historically significant Pe-2. High speed late war bomber that saw sufficient service with adequate CT usefulness but primarily a MA choice.

rather have a pe2...

4. B-25. Adequate performance for the MA and attractive solid nose gun packages (I’m partial to the heavy .50 armed variants over the pack howitzer models). Used by most allies on all fronts in large numbers, with more conservative performance compared to the B-26. Parafrag and skip bombing would be neat additions. Variants could be B-25C, Pappy Gunn B-25C, B-25J glass-nosed and hard-nosed.

yes...

5. I-16/24. It may seem like an odd addition, but it would be a top turn and burner in the MA (with performance in recent tests regarded as being superior to the Hurricane 2) and armed with two cannons. It would a significant early war Russian fighter for CT usage. It would also be a useful start for a Spanish Civil War planeset (I-16/10) which I fully support along with Arlo

a mig 3 would seem more appropriate

Charon

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Charon
4. B-25. Adequate performance for the MA and attractive solid nose gun packages (I’m partial to the heavy .50 armed variants over the pack howitzer models). Used by most allies on all fronts in large numbers, with more conservative performance compared to the B-26. Parafrag and skip bombing would be neat additions. Variants could be B-25C, Pappy Gunn B-25C, B-25J glass-nosed and hard-nosed.

It wasn't a "pack howitzer" that was installed in the B-25H, it was the T13E1 75mm gun. This weapon was specifically designed for use in the Mitchell, and was adapted as the M6 gun for use in the M24 light tank. It fired a full range of ammunition, including AP and HE. It used a very compact concentric recoil system that  minimized weight.

However, like you, I would prefer the solid nose B-25J. Yet, it's really not needed as the A-20G already fills the role nicely, and unlike the B-25, the A-20 can more than hold its own with fighters.

It would be very useful if HTC modeled parafrags and skip-bombing. But, I don't see them doing that anytime soon.

My regards,

Widewing

[TheManx]

A few allied bombers we need:

Mosquito  B.Mk.XVI
Halifax
Wellington
Mitchell

Almost forgot that we also need the Sea Mosquito!

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Charon

It’s not all about you, Arlo Or me. I don’t even fly bombers or fly in the CT that much, but three of my selection were to fill immediate holes for both of those types of players and cut down on some of the “balance” issue whining you read on the CT boards for the current late war setups. Immediate fixes for mid/late war setups before the long process can begin filling out the early/mid-war setups. You can do a lot of that too with the variants - P38 and as you guys have listed, the A6M3 would be on the list too. [edit: even early variants of the SBD and TBF to solve that huge imbalance that currently exists ]

Never said it was .... just talkin' common sense here. The MA doesn't need to be factored in. It reached it's top end awhile back. Adding what planes that are already available through the competition that can possibly lure away a potential customer negates that part of the equation. After that, everything's gravy and whipped cream. (Not to mention the fact that the addition of "the other guy's planes" already goes a long ways toward addressing the gaps that need filling.)

[dankes]

Originally posted by Xjazz


Highest kill ratio of any WW2 plane type and also highest scoring single airframe.

Finns are supposed to be the top overclaimers of WW2

[LLv34_Camouflage]

Originally posted by dankes
Finns are supposed to be the top overclaimers of WW2

Funny enough, now that the Soviet Archives have opened, it has been found out that the Soviet combat losses on the Finnish front were bigger than what the Finns had claimed. Go figure.

Back to the topic, here's my list of 5 planes, all for the eastern front:

1. Brewster model 239
For obvious reasons.

2. Pe-2
The best tactical bomber of the war. TU-2 was a late war re-design of the Pe-2.  Pe-2 was almost as important to the soviets as the IL-2.

3. Yak-1b
With the introduction of the Yak-1b, the Yakovlev fighter series started kicking serious butt.  The Yak-1b has comparable performance to the "regular" Yak-9 which is desperately needed for the AH planeset.

4. LaGG-3
The ugly duckling that eventually developed into the La5/La7 series.  The LaGG-3 and also the early La-5s are desperately needed for the AH planeset.

5. I-16
The most common VVS fighter in the early years. Used from the Spanish War well into the Great Patriotic War.

Camo

[Charon]

However, like you, I would prefer the solid nose B-25J. Yet, it's really not needed as the A-20G already fills the role nicely, and unlike the B-25, the A-20 can more than hold its own with fighters.

My only thought on that was that it is a slower plane that is appropriate for early/mid/late war planesets yet the armament options would still give it appeal in the MA. More of a current Allied CT consideration, a slower Aliied bomber compared to the A-20 or B-26.

Good points about the draw another crowd aspects Arlo.
Looking at your list, the ones that really jump out to me are:
Ki-84
Brewester (not on the list, but certainly a draw for all the Finns)
P-39
I-16

And, also not on the list but...

A-26

With the prek system, adding the A-26 isn't as scary

Cammos list is pretty solid, the Lagg 3 being the weakest link for the entire player base IMO.

Vort, exactly how competitive would the Mig 3 be beyond the CT? Just curious. I know it's gneral performance but haven't seen how it's modeled in a game like IL2/FB.

Another approach to think about (since we're not likely to get an update with 10 new planes), is which six planes could you add that would at least give something new for everyone. Say, 2 MA and 4 CT focused? With the 4 CT, maybe 2 Japanese and 2 VVS? - early/mid war? (Ki-84 would be on the MA list for me, and still offer additional CT utility)

Charon

[keyapaha]

1) Ki 84
 2) Ki 102/w 75mm cannon
 3) Ki 44
 4) Spitfire Mk VIII
 5) IAR 80/81

[Capt. Pork]

Something with a large-caliber nose-mounted artillery piece would be very nice just for the sake of novelty (yes, some of us appreciate a little novelty even when the game tries to adhere to historical situations). I personally prefer the HS-129, but the american Variant would probably be a better all around choice.