General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Purzel on May 04, 2017, 11:08:50 AM
Title: Player numbers down?
Post by: Purzel on May 04, 2017, 11:08:50 AM
Hi there!
I was coming back to AH last week. I was somewhat active a few years ago and I thought I'd give it a try agian.
Everything seems to be fine, but the number of players seems to have seriously dropped, right? I can remember times when there were 500 or so online weekend evenings. Last weekend most I saw was 150 or so. European time zone here.
Did the player base really shrink that much or is there some other reason that I saw so few people online? Just before there were just 50 ppl in the MA, thats just too little...
Thanks for your input!
Purzel
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: save on May 04, 2017, 11:20:15 AM
IF you are interested in plane to plane combat, all maps but one offer Ok numbers in Euro and US TZ for a good aerial fight, with the exception that sometimes 2 countries fight each other and forget the 3rd. You can shift country though (with a 6 hour probation time for shifting again) .
Remember also the arena was split during parts of the glory days of AH.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Purzel on May 04, 2017, 11:38:33 AM
Hmm, ok, so I may just try switching countries to where the action is more. I thought of that but was concerned with not being able to switch back. 6 hours is not such a long timespan, so it should be ok...
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Bizman on May 04, 2017, 11:40:48 AM
It's also spring. At least where I live it seems that people are more interested in gardening than computers - and I maintain home computers for living! :uhoh
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Shuffler on May 04, 2017, 11:54:14 AM
This time of year numbers always seem to drop as folks are outside a lot. Numbers are not as high as they used to be as some have old computers that would not run the new AHIII.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Purzel on May 04, 2017, 12:06:22 PM
Yeah ok, spring might be a contributor. Where I live the weather isn't really pulling you outside yet, but maybe in general this lets numbers drop.
But I think AH doen't demand a top of the line computer. Those who play games in general should be able to run AH, right? Off course for everyone there comes a time when you just don't want to buy another computer anymore, I guess...
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Lusche on May 04, 2017, 12:09:57 PM
It's also spring. At least where I live it seems that people are more interested in gardening than computers - and I maintain home computers for living! :uhoh
But I think AH doen't demand a top of the line computer. Those who play games in general should be able to run AH, right?
For AH3 you'd need a gaming computer, whereas AH2 could be played on a good office computer. Just like most realistic looking games AH3 really benefits of a high end graphics card. However, unlike many other titles, a medium-high end video card can provide sufficient frame rates for the cost of some non-critical eye candy. That would mean a 150€ additional cost to the old system, at the minimum. For those using office laptops the cost would be higher since you can't just add a gaming level video card into one.
Quote
Of course for everyone there comes a time when you just don't want to buy another computer anymore, I guess...
The oldest AH players I've heard of have been past their 80th birthday...
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 05, 2017, 09:57:16 AM
The biggest reason is maps. Most players have gotten tired of the same old same old. There have been some new maps, some like Montis that work great, others like Buzzsaw may have scared some away and leave #s low Everytime it's on. The fighter base has gone because it takes too much time to find good fights and they then die instantly when you find one. This leaves only strategy based players and now the idea is that fighters no longer are important. Therefore strategy base players win while fighters go find a new game. I think they need to bring the emphisis back to fighter planes.
Lack of fighter action because players have left. This creates a down turn in action and thus more players leave from bordem and having to fly 25 minutes to fight 1 25K 190D.
No fast action arena. The DA doesn't cut it because the furball island is boring, all you see is water, and it's too big. It still takes 10 minutes to get to the middle. Need an arena where you can spawn right into the action and have a nice scenery to boot. This would attract many players who just want to have some quick 15-30 min fun play time.
I think these are the biggest reasons besides players leaving for personal reasons.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Lazerr on May 05, 2017, 10:44:45 AM
I think adding a nice stereo system to the m3 would help attract and keep new players. It would add more excitement to running that box of supplies into town with a basically invisable vehicle.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Purzel on May 05, 2017, 10:52:07 AM
Thanks for the replies, guys!
So, as I feared the player base also went down significantly. Thats very sad. For me, I also don't have the time to be online vast amounts of time. So something where nice, quick fighter action can be found would be cool.
Maybe this is some kind of hog cycle and some day the players come in again. You never know...
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Brooke on May 05, 2017, 11:29:40 AM
But I think AH doen't demand a top of the line computer. Those who play games in general should be able to run AH, right? Off course for everyone there comes a time when you just don't want to buy another computer anymore, I guess...
I find it runs OK even on inexpensive computers (down to, say, 2.4 GHz dual core Intel, even things like older Core 2 Duo and newer, but inexpensive, Pentium G's) as long as you have a graphics card that is about as good as a GTX 750 Ti (which is currently about a $110 graphics card). With that, you can still get about 60 fps as long as you turn environment map slider to none, reflections and shadows off. If with those off you still don't get fps you want, try setting textures to 1024 and disable post lighting.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: cav58d on May 05, 2017, 04:26:48 PM
It's really a combination of things. Most recently it is the weather. I've been back about four months now and the numbers we're definitely higher on the cold days when the sun sets at 4:45pm. It's just hard being inside playing a video game when it's nice out day and night.
The game is definitely repetitive, but making friends and flying different aircraft help. I'm still blown away that in my ten year break there's only a couple new maps. I fully expected to come back and find 20+ maps in rotation, in seriously shocked how few options we have.
The game definitely isn't beginner friendly. Super high learning curve, lots of key mapping, and a highly skilled player group in the MA definitely makes it hard for noobs to get hooked. I really think HTC should create some tutorial missions before you fly online.
If you look at the numbers during a special event, there's clearly a decent amount of people that keep accounts but don't participate in the MA. I bet tonight's FSO is about 180 pilots and the MA will have 150 or so.
Anyways don't let the numbers keep you from returning, it's worth it and action can be found.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Lusche on May 05, 2017, 04:33:59 PM
It's really a combination of things. Most recently it is the weather. I've been back about four months now and the numbers we're definitely higher on the cold days when the sun sets at 4:45pm. It's just hard being inside playing a video game when it's nice out day and night.
But numbers last summer were higher as in the winter...
If you look at the numbers during a special event, there's clearly a decent amount of people that keep accounts but don't participate in the MA. .
Clearly?
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Zoney on May 05, 2017, 04:43:23 PM
If all the people that are "just waiting for numbers to get up" before they rejoined or joined, well the numbers would be up.
What you find on this board are a lot of guys who are just burned out and won't move on, so they sit here lamenting the good old days, while discouraging any new or returning players to come and fly. I'm not trying to "blue sky" anyone but I'm also not believing the "sky is falling" chicken little (non)players that seem to take pleasure in thinking it's over.
You either are helping or hurting this great game with your actions, whether while playing of if you're just posting.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Devil 505 on May 05, 2017, 05:07:49 PM
Indeed Zoney. :aok
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Devil 505 on May 05, 2017, 05:13:24 PM
But numbers last summer were higher as in the winter...
Last summer was still AH2 and Buzzsaw was introduced over the winter.
Can you figure out the current average players sans Buzzsaw? I don't think it will be that far off what we've seen in the fall after AH3 launched.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: caldera on May 05, 2017, 05:33:26 PM
Years ago, there were plenty of noobs that even noobs could kill. Now it's mostly long time players. That makes it hard to get started. HTC needs to find a way to bring in large quantities of new players, so that it's not just David the noob vs Goliath every sortie.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Lusche on May 05, 2017, 05:43:29 PM
Last summer was still AH2 and Buzzsaw was introduced over the winter.
My point is there has been a rather continuous reduction in numbers over the years, with no visible impact of things like seasons, weather, or maps. There is no singular "That's it!". There's something more fundamental (and possibly more complex?) to it than all those favourite pet peeves we players come up with ( not even my own favourite, the strats :D) Of course I have my very own hypotheses, but I can't prove any of them
Can you figure out the current average players sans Buzzsaw?
No.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Devil 505 on May 05, 2017, 06:00:36 PM
Overall I agree, but I was referring specifically to your comment comparing the current player population to last summer.
You would know better than I if the switch to AH3 saw a significant number shift, either positive or negative, but from what I've seen when I log into the MA is that the rough average number of players now is about the same as when AH3 went live - except when Buzzsaw is up.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 05, 2017, 06:10:22 PM
My point is there has been a rather continuous reduction in numbers over the years, with no visible impact of things like seasons, weather, or maps. There is no singular "That's it!". There's something more fundamental (and possibly more complex?) to it than all those favourite pet peeves we players come up with ( not even my own favourite, the strats :D) Of course I have my very own hypotheses, but I can't prove any of them
No.
I think the strats have made a difference too, and also the resupply that really don't make a whole lot of sense to the attacking team.
I also just think it has to do with map layouts and base distance, taking too long to find fights and action on the maps. Especially during the off hours, when you have to fly 20 miles just to fight a single con. The strategic type players don't care about the #s because they are attacking the map, and not other players. You can never change how people play the game, like Gangs and HOs or whatever, but you can change things like radar hardness and base layout/distance, that can really promote furball action and bring a lot of the fighter base back. Plus when you bring back the fighter base, they will choose to be apart of other parts of the game too.
The reason why so many players FSO and combat challenge is becuase of the air combat. This is what most of the people are really looking for. We need to bring big fun fights back to the MA, and that can only happen with promoting fighter action.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Lusche on May 05, 2017, 06:13:06 PM
You would know better than I if the switch to AH3 saw a significant number shift
Around the time AH3 went live there was a small, but notable bump in numbers, which quickly fell off again. But of course I can't say if this increase was caused by recurring players or by really new ones. Nor can I tell if AH lost that 'new' players or old ones whose hardware wasn't up to the task anymore. Only HT could tell, but he won't tell us :noid
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Lusche on May 05, 2017, 06:23:50 PM
Not by appeals, by wishful thinking ("If just everybody would...") or by *youth of today* ramblings, that's for sure :aok
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: lerxst on May 05, 2017, 07:21:39 PM
have not played in months not that i dont want to,started a new job that requires more attention than my last one but want to give a <<S>> to Aces High community and my squaddies G3MF,as a famous general once said... I shall return :salute
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: nrshida on May 05, 2017, 07:21:58 PM
I think the strats have made a difference too, and also the resupply that really don't make a whole lot of sense to the attacking team.
I also just think it has to do with map layouts and base distance, taking too long to find fights and action on the maps. Especially during the off hours, when you have to fly 20 miles just to fight a single con. The strategic type players don't care about the #s because they are attacking the map, and not other players. You can never change how people play the game, like Gangs and HOs or whatever, but you can change things like radar hardness and base layout/distance, that can really promote furball action and bring a lot of the fighter base back. Plus when you bring back the fighter base, they will choose to be apart of other parts of the game too.
The reason why so many players FSO and combat challenge is becuase of the air combat. This is what most of the people are really looking for. We need to bring big fun fights back to the MA, and that can only happen with promoting fighter action.
Very true. But there's a missing component, I think. What is truly lacking is not necessarily fighter v. fighter action but fighter v. any plane action.
Think of the MA as a marine ecosystem. What we have now is a relative overabundant shark population and not enough lesser predators and baitfish to support it. It's an unhealthy system.
If you think of town and base objects as the krill that feeds the little fish and bottom feeders, you'll see that our ecosystem has too many crabs and not enough schooling baitfish. Since the crabs and baitfish compete against each other for their feed, the animal that has the easier time finding food thrives at the expense of the other.
If you haven't figured it out yet, crabs are GV's.
The current game makes it too easy for GV's to dictate the ground war. We no longer have hordes and missions (schooling baitfish) attacking bases and towns because it much easier for players to take a GV to accomplish their task (finds food).
Without abundant schooling baitfish, we are left with the predators eating themselves with predictable results. The good pilots feed and the lesser ones die and die often, then leave the game for happier feeding grounds. Only the truly gifted or stubborn pilots can thrive in the current environment.
We need game mechanics in place to promote more aircraft attacking objects and GV's alike. It is far too easy for GV's to both fight and succeed vs. themselves but especially aircraft. When their success comes at the direct behest of the air combat, it is not healthy for an air combat game.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: NatCigg on May 05, 2017, 07:48:11 PM
more missions. its been killed by the ego fighter pilot and overall selfish "i pay my 15 bucks.". Its not fun. its not ww2. its not anything immersive where the game is enticing. many game objectives are unattainable because of lack of coordination leading to frustration and a lack of effort. its not fun to die anymore. more missions, more wingmen. thats what is fun. put a noob under your wing. lead a milk run. line up gvs. that is fun, that will also give the selfish something to shoot at. its how it worked. its why i played.
also, does not help unemployment is at a 10 year low. :old:
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: LocoMoto on May 06, 2017, 01:15:48 AM
I was coming back to AH last week. I was somewhat active a few years ago and I thought I'd give it a try agian.
Everything seems to be fine, but the number of players seems to have seriously dropped, right? I can remember times when there were 500 or so online weekend evenings. Last weekend most I saw was 150 or so. European time zone here.
Did the player base really shrink that much or is there some other reason that I saw so few people online? Just before there were just 50 ppl in the MA, thats just too little...
Thanks for your input!
Purzel
:old: Here Here
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: zack1234 on May 06, 2017, 02:00:01 AM
I got a new job and spending time with that :old:
When i return on regular basis the numbers will increase :old:
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Vraciu on May 06, 2017, 08:06:56 AM
Very true. But there's a missing component, I think. What is truly lacking is not necessarily fighter v. fighter action but fighter v. any plane action.
Think of the MA as a marine ecosystem. What we have now is a relative overabundant shark population and not enough lesser predators and baitfish to support it. It's an unhealthy system.
If you think of town and base objects as the krill that feeds the little fish and bottom feeders, you'll see that our ecosystem has too many crabs and not enough schooling baitfish. Since the crabs and baitfish compete against each other for their feed, the animal that has the easier time finding food thrives at the expense of the other.
If you haven't figured it out yet, crabs are GV's.
The current game makes it too easy for GV's to dictate the ground war. We no longer have hordes and missions (schooling baitfish) attacking bases and towns because it much easier for players to take a GV to accomplish their task (finds food).
Without abundant schooling baitfish, we are left with the predators eating themselves with predictable results. The good pilots feed and the lesser ones die and die often, then leave the game for happier feeding grounds. Only the truly gifted or stubborn pilots can thrive in the current environment.
We need game mechanics in place to promote more aircraft attacking objects and GV's alike. It is far too easy for GV's to both fight and succeed vs. themselves but especially aircraft. When their success comes at the direct behest of the air combat, it is not healthy for an air combat game.
GVs have crabs? :huh :rofl
But, as stated, if people THINKING about coming back actually did this place would be buzzing with activity and these threads wouldn't be started.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Toad on May 06, 2017, 10:32:10 AM
I think Devil 505 makes good points.
I do think the game has skewed significantly away from air combat when compared to its origins. I assume this is by intent, as there have been many advantages given to GVs that they did not have in WW2.
For example there was a reason the German vehicles quit moving during the day. Too easy to spot from the air, unlike the situation here.
Quote
On June 7 Panzer Lehr began its move from Chartres to Normandy in daylight. Its commander, Fritz Bayerlein, who had also seen service in North Africa, objected but was overruled. As soon as the armored column was spotted it was savaged by Allied fighter-bombers. Bayerlein described the roads as being ‘a fighter-bomber race course.’ His division lost 150 trucks and fuel tankers, five tanks and self-propelled guns, as well as a number of halftracks and prime movers in a matter of a few hours.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: BowHTR on May 06, 2017, 10:40:35 AM
I do think the game has skewed significantly away from air combat when compared to its origins. I assume this is by intent, as there have been many advantages given to GVs that they did not have in WW2.
For example there was a reason the German vehicles quit moving during the day. Too easy to spot from the air, unlike the situation here.
Please remember this is a game and not a WWII simulator.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Toad on May 06, 2017, 10:48:14 AM
Exactly.
And while the aircraft are fairly closely limited to their actual RL capabilities, the GVs are not.
For example, in the game the aircraft are pretty easy to spot as they would be in RL and the GVs are far more difficult to spot than they would be in RL.
For example, where aircraft have to fly across a sector of water to attack a base on a different landmass as they did in RL, the GVs simply (Hey! Presto!) spawn from one base across a sector of water into an attack position on a different landmass. No boarding an LST and disembarking on a contested beachead as in RL.
Thus, this is why I say the game has been skewed to favor GVs in some (many?) respects.
That links directly to Devil's allegory. There's not enough baitfish anymore. The crabs took their jobs. ;)
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: 715 on May 06, 2017, 11:06:05 AM
You guys sure hate GVers. However, you seem to think that if you take away my GV you will force me to fight you in a plane. No. I'll just leave. And if the typically 25% of players who GV do the same you think the player numbers will go up?
And you seem to think newbies and others with no talent gravitate to GVs? Try showing up at AvA Thursday night tank fights and see how long you last. (Hint: probably not long.)
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 06, 2017, 11:10:52 AM
You guys sure hate GVers. However, you seem to think that if you take away my GV you will force me to fight you in a plane. No. I'll just leave. And if the typically 25% of players who GV do the same you think the player numbers will go up?
And you seem to think newbies and others with no talent gravitate to GVs? Try showing up at AvA Thursday night tank fights and see how long you last. (Hint: probably not long.)
Lets clarify, newbies and others with no talent IN PLANES gravitate to GVs :D
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: JimmyD3 on May 06, 2017, 11:26:45 AM
I do think the game has skewed significantly away from air combat when compared to its origins. I assume this is by intent, as there have been many advantages given to GVs that they did not have in WW2.
For example there was a reason the German vehicles quit moving during the day. Too easy to spot from the air, unlike the situation here.
The aircraft in AH have access to the exact same info the WW2 pilots had, plus some. There were no gv icons, you couldn't "hear" the gv running, the towns didn't flash. Now I'll grant you, as far as I know, tanks didn't "Main Gun" aircraft down either. There are no "vehicle convoys" in AH, so that argument is irrelevant. :huh
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: BowHTR on May 06, 2017, 11:47:46 AM
And while the aircraft are fairly closely limited to their actual RL capabilities, the GVs are not.
For example, in the game the aircraft are pretty easy to spot as they would be in RL and the GVs are far more difficult to spot than they would be in RL.
For example, where aircraft have to fly across a sector of water to attack a base on a different landmass as they did in RL, the GVs simply (Hey! Presto!) spawn from one base across a sector of water into an attack position on a different landmass. No boarding an LST and disembarking on a contested beachead as in RL.
Thus, this is why I say the game has been skewed to favor GVs in some (many?) respects.
That links directly to Devil's allegory. There's not enough baitfish anymore. The crabs took their jobs. ;)
So you think that GVs should have to drive entire distances to other fields? Again, this is a GAME. Not a simulator. Things are made easier to make it fun and enjoyable. It's the same as you not having to control your mixture and what not in your plane. You can just spawn to the runway and go full throttle and have at it.
I would say the game doesn't favor GVs anymore than it does planes.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: LocoMoto on May 06, 2017, 12:37:03 PM
Lets clarify, newbies and others with no talent IN PLANES gravitate to GVs :D
Or if caught early on and put through the grinder they turn out like us fugi. Its up to the player to stick it out and try over and over until they get it right. :old:
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Devil 505 on May 06, 2017, 12:50:20 PM
The point is this: in an AIR COMBAT game the better solution to any problem should never be a GV.
want to kill a town - take a bomber, not a Calliope need to capture a base - take a goon, not and M3 other GV's trying to capture your base - take an Il-2, not a tank Tired of your tank getting killed by Il-2's - take a fighter, not a Wirb
As it stands, none of those aircraft options are the better option and game suffers because of it.
We need to restore the standard icons to the GV's, heavily perk the Wirbelwind, and add some tangible incentive to flying the Storch.
GV's traveling under enemy skies should be similar to baby sea turtles trying to make it to the sea - easy pickings.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: BowHTR on May 06, 2017, 01:12:23 PM
The point is this: in an AIR COMBAT game the better solution to any problem should never be a GV.
want to kill a town - take a bomber, not a Calliope need to capture a base - take a goon, not and M3 other GV's trying to capture your base - take an Il-2, not a tank Tired of your tank getting killed by Il-2's - take a fighter, not a Wirb
As it stands, none of those aircraft options are the better option and game suffers because of it.
We need to restore the standard icons to the GV's, heavily perk the Wirbelwind, and add some tangible incentive to flying the Storch.
GV's traveling under enemy skies should be similar to baby sea turtles trying to make it to the sea - easy pickings.
This game is so much more than an air combat game. Respectively, this is an open world game. Where the player has the option to fly or drive whatever they wish.
If the game was intended to be only an air combat game, there wouldn't be any GV's. The game is setup to make it enjoyable for those that enjoy planes, vehicles, or both.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 06, 2017, 01:26:43 PM
I dont think the the game favors GVs other than a skill level. While "fighting" (and I use that term VERY loosely as more often than not it is spawn camping) in GV has it's own set of skills, not as many are needed to be learned as dose flying especially if all you do is spawn camp.
So those that find flying a fighter "just too hard" opt to make high alt buff runs, or hide in the trees at a spawn in a GV. This takes away from the numbers in the air fighting which leads to more and more people leaving to find games that are more entertaining.
Last night Rooks and Knits had a fun fight going at 33. Knits were defending, Rooks attacking. There were fights from 10-12k and down to the deck. There were GVs in and around the town, and the occasional buff group that came in. It lasted over an hour and was still going on when I logged. It seemed like everyone was having fun.
What was different? Attackers didn't hose the field, nor did they de-ack. Defenders didn't go out and pork front line Rook bases to slow the attack (like the Bish had along the other front killing any kind of action there). Defenders didn't spawn camp the Rooks spawn, nor did the Rook vehicles go near the field to vulch or spawn camp the defending vehicles coming out. I did hear once that the ORDs had been dropped, but for the most part is was a good old fun fight with many styles of play covered, EVERYONE was having fun.
What was different? These are the fights I live for and wish we had more of. If I could bottle what ever was different last night Id give it away free to have that kind of fun every night.
I dont think the game "favors" one type of play over any other, but game play can do so easily. Last night we had the "right" players to generate a great fight for many styles of play. Tonight it may be geared more toward NOEs or GV spawn camping, but its the players who decide, not the game.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Toad on May 06, 2017, 01:30:48 PM
The point is this: in an AIR COMBAT game the better solution to any problem should never be a GV.
want to kill a town - take a bomber, not a Calliope need to capture a base - take a goon, not and M3 other GV's trying to capture your base - take an Il-2, not a tank Tired of your tank getting killed by Il-2's - take a fighter, not a Wirb
As it stands, none of those aircraft options are the better option and game suffers because of it.
We need to restore the standard icons to the GV's, heavily perk the Wirbelwind, and add some tangible incentive to flying the Storch.
GV's traveling under enemy skies should be similar to baby sea turtles trying to make it to the sea - easy pickings.
Couldn't agree more. Well said.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Devil 505 on May 06, 2017, 01:39:50 PM
This game is so much more than an air combat game. Respectively, this is an open world game. Where the player has the option to fly or drive whatever they wish.
If the game was intended to be only an air combat game, there wouldn't be any GV's. The game is setup to make it enjoyable for those that enjoy planes, vehicles, or both.
Yes it more than only air combat, but do not ignore where the focus is - in the air.
From the HTC hompage:
Quote
Aces High takes the art and science of vintage WW1 and WW2 air combat and sets it in a high intensity online multiplayer environment. Hundreds of players simultaneously battle it out against each other in massive aerial dogfights and bomber raids.
High fidelity flight simulation is the heart of Aces High but it doesn't end there. A war rages on the ground and at sea. Engage enemy armor in tank combat. Protect your fleet as a gunner or make a torpedo run in a PT boat. Lead an assault in an amphibious vehicle. With over 100 warbirds, vehicles, and boats available, you have access to a vast virtual arsenal.
Notice how the emphasis is placed on the game's merits with the air combat. The game is marketed as such and it's called ACES HIGH.
Air combat is why most players came to play this game. It's what they expect, and the current game does not deliver on it like it used to.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Toad on May 06, 2017, 01:42:54 PM
If you have ever been in an airliner and looked down on an interstate highway from 20,000+ feet, you'd understand the BIG advantage GVs have here in the game with respect to visibility.
GVs in the open are easily...VERY easily....seen from MUCH farther away than they are in AH. You should be able to see it MUCH, MUCH farther away even without any icons.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Toad on May 06, 2017, 01:52:25 PM
So you think that GVs should have to drive entire distances to other fields?
This discussion has been going on for probably a decade.
No, I do not think that.
If you search the board years back you'll find HT saying he set up the spawns so that both aircraft and GVs have to spend about the same amount of time getting to the fight. If it takes 6 minutes for a fighter to fly a sector to another airfield, the spawns are supposedly set so that it takes a GV about 5-6 minutes of driving to get to the enemy town or whatever. At least that was the original idea.
What I am saying, once again, is that GVs have been given capabilities they did not have in RL that unbalance the game. I realize aircraft have some advantages they did not have in RL. However, these do not unbalance the game.
It's a simple concept.
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Again, this is a GAME. Not a simulator. Things are made easier to make it fun and enjoyable. It's the same as you not having to control your mixture and what not in your plane. You can just spawn to the runway and go full throttle and have at it.
And if you research my posts from a decade+ ago, you'll see that I totally agree with you. Not being a simulator, however, isn't the same as game balance.
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I would say the game doesn't favor GVs anymore than it does planes.
That is your opinion and you are most certainly entitled to it. However, I'm sure you realize that other people have their own opinions....to which they are also entitled....and those opinions do not always agree with your view.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Vraciu on May 06, 2017, 02:06:17 PM
If you have ever been in an airliner and looked down on an interstate highway from 20,000+ feet, you'd understand the BIG advantage GVs have here in the game with respect to visibility.
GVs in the open are easily...VERY easily....seen from MUCH farther away than they are in AH. You should be able to see it MUCH, MUCH farther away even without any icons.
Which is why we need the icons back.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Bizman on May 06, 2017, 02:58:48 PM
Although I agree that cars can easily be seen from a passenger plane flying at 10 km/30,000 ft, there's some differences between them and GV's. Cars usually are bright and shiny against a flat dark grey tarmac. GV's feature a matte camouflage painting which makes them hard to spot especially if they're sitting still among high undergrowth.
That said, I'd very much like to see the enemy GV's shiny red...
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Vraciu on May 06, 2017, 03:03:30 PM
The point is, flying over a GV at 50' would be easier to spot than this.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: BowHTR on May 06, 2017, 03:59:56 PM
Yes it more than only air combat, but do not ignore where the focus is - in the air.
From the HTC hompage: Notice how the emphasis is placed on the game's merits with the air combat. The game is marketed as such and it's called ACES HIGH.
Air combat is why most players came to play this game. It's what they expect, and the current game does not deliver on it like it used to.
The game delivers the same thing it has been for the past years. HiTech provides the environment, players make the gameplay. I understand that the majority of players are here for air combat. However, you will not always find it due to how people choose to play the game. That's the advantage of open world games, the player can choose what they want to do.
What I am saying, once again, is that GVs have been given capabilities they did not have in RL that unbalance the game. I realize aircraft have some advantages they did not have in RL. However, these do not unbalance the game.
<snip>
Please provide an example of what capability that GVs have that causes an unbalance in the game? Im not a big GVer, so please shed a little light on this.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Devil 505 on May 06, 2017, 04:21:18 PM
The game delivers the same thing it has been for the past years. HiTech provides the environment, players make the gameplay. I understand that the majority of players are here for air combat. However, you will not always find it due to how people choose to play the game. That's the advantage of open world games, the player can choose what they want to do.
Every ask yourself why the players do what they do? Ever ask why what changed to make them change from what they did?
Game mechanics dictate behavior, not the other way around.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: BowHTR on May 06, 2017, 04:54:52 PM
Every ask yourself why the players do what they do? Ever ask why what changed to make them change from what they did?
Game mechanics dictate behavior, not the other way around.
Devil, we could beat this horse all day I'm sure. In the end, I know what made my group lose members, and it wasn't a game mechanic or anything specific with the game itself. It was the players that made them leave. Players are the main driving force of any game. Yes the game has to provide the wants to play, and make the game interesting. However, it comes back to the players that make a game like AH survive.
:salute
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Toad on May 06, 2017, 06:20:01 PM
GV's feature a matte camouflage painting which makes them hard to spot especially if they're sitting still among high undergrowth.
I am not arguing that GVs can't be camouflaged and hidden in forested areas. That's where most German vehicles spent the day after D-Day. OTOH, moving across open country they are very easy to spot. Do we have dust trails in AH? You do in RL. Ever flown over a pickup truck moving across a harvested wheat field at 5k+ ? I have in a PT-19. VERY easy to spot. Even a parked green John Deere tractor parked on a green wheat field is VERY easy to spot.
Please provide an example of what capability that GVs have that causes an unbalance in the game? Im not a big GVer, so please shed a little light on this.
The Romulan cloaking device mentioned above. This puts the aircraft into easy meat range before the pilot's vision can penetrate the cloaking device. No balance.
Without it, normally the GV would be vulnerable to a jabo attack without the aircraft ever getting into easy meat range.
Air combat is why most players came to play this game.
Once upon a time, that was so. Now...who knows...?
FWIW, if we're here to fight other planes, why do we care whether we can see the trucks?
- oldman
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Devil 505 on May 06, 2017, 11:37:09 PM
If we can see them easier, we can kill them easier. If they die more often, they will be motivated to find other ways to take bases. The "win teh warz" types will gravitate to the easiest method. Ever since the GV range was shortened, it's been far too easy to sneak GV's around and the GV became became the safe option to capture bases. If the game mechanics can be changed to restore the natural order, with GV's being easy to spot and kill, then attack planes will begin to be used more often.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: ccvi on May 07, 2017, 02:32:00 AM
And while the aircraft are fairly closely limited to their actual RL capabilities, the GVs are not.
There's two separate topics. Vehicle capabilities and environment.
For aircraft you're making a point for "real" capabilities. Which is basically limited to their performance. No more, no less. They are trivial to use with basically 0 workload for the pilot, spotting aircraft at a range where icons appear requires extreme patience and a bit of luck, in-flight high-precision radar, ... That's no more real than the modeling of the GVs. Probably, GVs are more real, since a single player simulate the complete multi-person crew of a tank plus infantry accompanying the tank, where in an aircraft the player simulates only the pilot.
For example, where aircraft have to fly across a sector of water to attack a base on a different landmass as they did in RL, the GVs simply (Hey! Presto!) spawn from one base across a sector of water into an attack position on a different landmass. No boarding an LST and disembarking on a contested beachead as in RL.
Thus, this is why I say the game has been skewed to favor GVs in some (many?) respects.
This is a property of the environment, not the capabilities of the vehicles. In here a single GV is moving, while in reality it would be multiple vehicles moving together plus people on foot. The main difference is that a real vehicle once spottet couldn't get far away. Here GV can simpy teleport to another area (despawn, and reappear at any spawn of their choosing).
On the other hand, aircraft don't need maintenance either. The fight isn't between aircraft in combat with the supply chain for GVs but with GVs at the front lines.
The aircraft in AH have access to the exact same info the WW2 pilots had, plus some. There were no gv icons, you couldn't "hear" the gv running, the towns didn't flash. Now I'll grant you, as far as I know, tanks didn't "Main Gun" aircraft down either. There are no "vehicle convoys" in AH, so that argument is irrelevant. :huh
Plus "some"? Plus a lot. Also, plus a lot of stupidity. In reality, tanks didn't main gun aircraft, because pilots were sane enough to not come in so low to drop bombs/rockets from such short range that it would have been even remotely viable to get a hit with the main gun. Diving in vertical at 400 mph to drop at 1000 ft to get pin-point accuracy on vehicles? Not the typical approach in reality, but the main reason why the Wirbel is so deadly in here.
want to kill a town - take a bomber, not a Calliope need to capture a base - take a goon, not and M3 other GV's trying to capture your base - take an Il-2, not a tank Tired of your tank getting killed by Il-2's - take a fighter, not a Wirb
As it stands, none of those aircraft options are the better option and game suffers because of it.
Except for the troops I don't see your problem. A bomber clears a town in max. 2 passes, even a rocket-loaded M4 can barely do it with one load and takes much longer. Fighter-bombers can attack GVs much more reliably than other GVs can. This includes being nearly untouchable for the GVs (depending on the sanity of the pilot - not on the uber powers of the GVs). Reliably taking down IL2s with Wirbs? Only by continuously respawning, waiting for the pilot to mess up, unlike doing so in a fighter, where the fighter can be basically untouchable by the IL2.
Lack of patience, and really really wanting to push through is the problem. Going what may feel like the easy way and pushing through forcefully creates a vulnerability, that you seem to perceive as an imbalance.
However, going the slow and safe way increases the risk of becoming a victim to enemy fighters. They have more time to set up an attack. Even friendly fighters as support won't help much, because also the enemy fighters like to push through to get the easy kills, instead of going the safe way. This behavior is supported by in-flight radar and aircraft icons. In reality it was much easier for ground attack aircraft to avoid being spottet, or to get away at least. The enemy wouldn't be stupid enough to follow to the deck even if able to maintain visual contact, and continuing pursuit through ack.
The point is, flying over a GV at 50' would be easier to spot than this.
Maybe and no. Physically, maybe, due to higher resolution of reality (consider getting a 4k screen to solve the problem). However, doing 300+ mph at 50' you'd be quite busy watching for other things and flying the airplane. GVs are nicely visible at that distance in game. Dieing has no consequences, and workload for flying is minimal. Quite an advantage over reality providing more time slices to visually scan the area for GVs.
Do we have dust trails in AH? You do in RL. Ever flown over a pickup truck moving across a harvested wheat field at 5k+ ? I have in a PT-19. VERY easy to spot. Even a parked green John Deere tractor parked on a green wheat field is VERY easy to spot.
Try again in typical European weather. Europe isn't the typical American desert.
I'm not trying to argue that everything is fine with the ground war. The level-of-detail feature of the trees makes things behave very inconsistently. At different detail levels (distance/zoom setting) vehicles may or may not be visible. This was a lot better with the old trees, that were always exactly the same, regardless of distance and zoom. Once in drawing range - clear visibility. Maybe its less of an issue when moving the tree-slider to max-distance (can't do that at the moment).
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: save on May 07, 2017, 08:55:26 AM
<snip> There's two separate topics. Vehicle capabilities and environment.
For aircraft you're making a point for "real" capabilities. Which is basically limited to their performance. No more, no less. They are trivial to use with basically 0 workload for the pilot, spotting aircraft at a range where icons appear requires extreme patience and a bit of luck, in-flight high-precision radar, ... That's no more real than the modeling of the GVs. Probably, GVs are more real, since a single player simulate the complete multi-person crew of a tank plus infantry accompanying the tank, where in an aircraft the player simulates only the pilot. <snip>
Plus "some"? Plus a lot. Also, plus a lot of stupidity. In reality, tanks didn't main gun aircraft, because pilots were sane enough to not come in so low to drop bombs/rockets from such short range that it would have been even remotely viable to get a hit with the main gun. Diving in vertical at 400 mph to drop at 1000 ft to get pin-point accuracy on vehicles? Not the typical approach in reality, but the main reason why the Wirbel is so deadly in here. Try again in typical European weather. Europe isn't the typical American desert. <snip>
You can's simply main-gun a plane from a gunner view, it's very narrow, with AH 360 view and automatic range - no problem !
AH have a 3-5 crew working as one nervous system, IRL even finding that 300mph plane after getting gunner ordered to shoot him with a main gun is a PITA.
Wirby's/Ostwinds have a ranging live computer that makes aerial kills easy, specially as you make the kill before that plane even see your icon.
Hazy weather in Europe, low clouds, makes it harder to spot enemies for both GV and planes.
Wet / muddy / snowy weather makes the GV tracks easy to spot from the air and are easy to follow to it's producing GV, we took lot's of precaution not to go in open terrain because of that.
If GV's are shooting they reveal their position, the shot also blocks a second shot from a GV for quite s some time in many weather/climate types.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Toad on May 07, 2017, 11:05:27 AM
spotting aircraft at a range where icons appear requires extreme patience and a bit of luck, in-flight high-precision radar, ...
Excuse me for asking but do you have any experience flying and spotting aircraft? Let me refer you to a very old thread on this topic. http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,25522.0.html
In short, no...it doesn't require extreme patience, luck or inflight precision radar. The actual truth is the icons appear at a shorter range than you could see other aircraft in clear skies.
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That's no more real than the modeling of the GVs. Probably, GVs are more real, since a single player simulate the complete multi-person crew of a tank plus infantry accompanying the tank, where in an aircraft the player simulates only the pilot.
Did you read what you typed? One player serving 4 crew positions is more real than one player serving as a single pilot in a single seat aircraft? Say what?
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This is a property of the environment,
Which is what I have pointed out. The game is unbalanced towards the GVs in several ways. Tilting the environment in their favor is one of them.
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On the other hand, aircraft don't need maintenance either.
None of the vehicles or aircraft in the game need "maintenance". In fact, the "resupply" of damaged vehicles is another tilt in favor of the GVs.
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Diving in vertical at 400 mph to drop at 1000 ft to get pin-point accuracy on vehicles?
Shouldn't have to dive to 1000' at all. The GVs should be far more visible from much higher altitudes, negating the necessity to get anywhere near that low.
The advantage GVs get here from not being visible at normal Mark 1 eyeball ranges is huge. At a minimum the old GV icon range should be restored.
Quote
Try again in typical European weather. Europe isn't the typical American desert.
Nor do the maps mimic typical weather and terrain. We mostly have clear skies and much open area.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Dawger on May 07, 2017, 11:32:00 AM
As a recent returnee to Aces High after five or six years away I can tell you why I left and why I only log in to AH to fly AH and our squad night (which is only 1 or 2 sorties now because the fight disappears).
It is way too hard to find an aerial fight, especially an aerial fight outside of the range of AAA/Wirbles.
GV and manned guns give players someplace to hide when the going is rough in the air.
GV's are good short term for HTC's bottom line but they are long term suicide but Hitech is probably pretty close to ready to retire anyway.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Lusche on May 07, 2017, 12:00:55 PM
By reading this thread one could easily think the majority of players are in GVs these days ;)
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Vraciu on May 07, 2017, 12:11:52 PM
Maybe and no. Physically, maybe, due to higher resolution of reality (consider getting a 4k screen to solve the problem). However, doing 300+ mph at 50' you'd be quite busy watching for other things and flying the airplane. GVs are nicely visible at that distance in game. Dieing has no consequences, and workload for flying is minimal. Quite an advantage over reality providing more time slices to visually scan the area for GVs.
Busy flying the plane? Pretty second nature. I can fly an airplane all day long looking at my just wingtip (or any other method I wish to employ). Unless I collide with someone the only limitation I have is fuel/boredom.
Where I am from people fly airplane's looking for FOOTPRINTS. Is it dangerous? Sure. Is it routinely done? Yeah.
Watching for other things? Only if I choose to. I have the freedom to look for whatever I want. Where I CHOOSE to look should have no bearing in how visible a GV is by its nature.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Devil 505 on May 07, 2017, 12:31:19 PM
Except for the troops I don't see your problem. A bomber clears a town in max. 2 passes, even a rocket-loaded M4 can barely do it with one load and takes much longer. Fighter-bombers can attack GVs much more reliably than other GVs can. This includes being nearly untouchable for the GVs (depending on the sanity of the pilot - not on the uber powers of the GVs). Reliably taking down IL2s with Wirbs? Only by continuously respawning, waiting for the pilot to mess up, unlike doing so in a fighter, where the fighter can be basically untouchable by the IL2.
Lack of patience, and really really wanting to push through is the problem. Going what may feel like the easy way and pushing through forcefully creates a vulnerability, that you seem to perceive as an imbalance.
However, going the slow and safe way increases the risk of becoming a victim to enemy fighters. They have more time to set up an attack. Even friendly fighters as support won't help much, because also the enemy fighters like to push through to get the easy kills, instead of going the safe way. This behavior is supported by in-flight radar and aircraft icons. In reality it was much easier for ground attack aircraft to avoid being spottet, or to get away at least. The enemy wouldn't be stupid enough to follow to the deck even if able to maintain visual contact, and continuing pursuit through ack.
The entire game these days seems to be about capturing bases - don't pretend that troop running is some side show.
The defenders park their tanks in or near town and wait to ambush the M3 and the attackers bring their tanks to clear a path for the troops. Once any plane shows up to hunt tanks, out come the wirbs to get easy kills - and yes, it is far easier for a wirb to kill a plane than vice versa.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: caldera on May 07, 2017, 01:08:38 PM
Wirbels are the worst thing to ever happen to this game.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: nrshida on May 07, 2017, 01:19:02 PM
And the ultimate evil of ACM workaround, the 88-mm :mad:
+1 to both.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: bustr on May 07, 2017, 01:39:34 PM
Clouds right now have problems with FPS and Hitech is coding a new cloud function that his testing shows has removed much of the FPS issues. Large fronts may be a reality soon. As for cloud base, his rule is 2000ft AGL at the moment.
Building realistic terrains, I suspect most of this audience has never tried from their comments. And my first terrain bowlma, has large cloud systems, and everyone fought in the air at first like I designed the terrain to encourage for it's first two rotations. Then gradually the "not loosing" sickness came back and the normal flying above 15k in a hoard to a furball 19 miles away took over. I filled that terrain with minimum distance airfields to promote quick action, what do many do now, circle up over 12k before taking the quick 19 miles hop to furball. In response, everyone crawled back into field guns and wirbles instead of be a group's kill toy for the evening. Yep, no one fights in the air anymore for some reason. How do I know what happened with my terrain, I had a vested interest in keeping an eye on how it was being used to see what worked and what didn't, by watching it being used. Not listening to opinions in these forums.
There are two primary limitations to creating anything realistic looking in the terrain editor, minimum polygon size controlling how detailed you can create topo features, and time investment to create the features you are able to once you understand the first limitation. This can become a mind numbing and daunting task unless you streamline your creation processes. At some point with any terrain in any game, some poor dumb sunufabatch has to sit down with it and go nutz one tool stroke at a time. Or it won't fool your brain into thinking it looks like something other than a fast import that was robo produced. Buzzsaw anyone, funny how I recreated it's core heightmap raw file with a spiral gradient while learning to create the heightmap file for my new terrain.
Below, results of a week of mind numbing process refining, you can see the polygon limitations in the color blending and some of the runoff canyons. The skill is in using those limitations. This is only a small window of much more work on this island. I'm attempting to emulate Pacific volcanic island mountain ranges after reviewing topo maps of the Solomons and Oceania region. I cheated to solve an issue the strats created for placement by looking at Tepui from South America. Please show me your emulations, I like looking at other terrains to see how the creator worked with the same limitations I'm limited by. I might learn something to speed up my process.
(https://s20.postimg.org/9bc1we9zh/oceania68.jpg)
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Toad on May 07, 2017, 02:23:22 PM
Terrains are pretty and definitely add eye candy to the game.
I recall early days though in Air Warrior, Warbirds and AH where the terrain was flat green and the sky was pure blue.
The fights were awesome.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Vraciu on May 07, 2017, 02:39:31 PM
I find it runs OK even on inexpensive computers (down to, say, 2.4 GHz dual core Intel, even things like older Core 2 Duo and newer, but inexpensive, Pentium G's) as long as you have a graphics card that is about as good as a GTX 750 Ti (which is currently about a $110 graphics card). With that, you can still get about 60 fps as long as you turn environment map slider to none, reflections and shadows off. If with those off you still don't get fps you want, try setting textures to 1024 and disable post lighting.
i run with a GTX 720 and with minimum settings and keep 40 ish frames
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: AceHavok on May 07, 2017, 06:26:41 PM
Everyone has their own theory of why player numbers are down, but my own theory about the lack of player is the lack of advertising and possibly the subscription fee. I'm probably going to get a lot of flak for this, but I personally think the subscription fee might be an issue. If you look at games that are free like War Thunder, World of Tanks, World of Warships, and a few others. They all have massive player bases, but they all run off micro-transactions which is a serious downside to a lot of people. $15 a month is a pretty steep price for some people, especially kids.
Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: JimmyC on May 07, 2017, 11:42:10 PM
I doubt the subs are too big of an issue, although it might deter the younger customers. As a game its got quite an old clientele.. Advertising is definatley an issue I reckon, The interesting thing is as its such a niche game it does not need too many people, the advertising does not need to get loads of people, too many new folks might actually be a problem.. If we doubled numbers that would be epic.. but do we need more than that? the numbers we are talking are quite small in the over all gaming scene I would imagine(just thinking of the ridiculous large numbers at wartblunder WoT etc) so some precise targeted advertising to key demographic (youngold fart plane /WW2 enthusiast, gamer) might be very effective.
Disclaimer: I know absolutely nothing about these things and the opinions I give on all such opinions and related topics are provided 'as is' without warranty of any kind and are subject to change without notice. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall JimmyC and/or his respective squaddies be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: NatCigg on May 08, 2017, 02:43:02 AM
The price point curve would be interesting to see. From 15$ to free vs. 3000 to 3 million. It could resemble buggs bunnys trip through Albuquerque.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Lusche on May 08, 2017, 03:02:16 AM
If we doubled numbers that would be epic.. but do we need more than that?
Don't know about the 'we', but 'I' definitely do.
When AH actually had twice the current numbers I already struggled to find battles and gameplay to my liking. I never was here for dueling. Doubling current numbers only would mean 20-50 players at the time I can play when my lil one will be in the kindergarten, and like 100-170 during my prime time. For comparison, we had about three times the current population back when I started in 2005, and more than four times during the heydays (with the dreaded dual LW setup, but still hardly below 100 players even during downtime).
(Disclaimer: Yes, I'm fully aware that I would never get exactly the same experience again no matter how many players because of "Been there done that")
If I were an US palyer, I would be quite happy with 'only' twice the current numbers - But I ain't and I can not play at 3 AM any longer like I often did in the past :old:
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: NatCigg on May 08, 2017, 03:14:17 AM
im looking for about ten times the numbers we have now. currently mission population is around zero, give or take me. in the old days with 100-150 per side we could get a ten man mission going. so i figure it is about 10 to 1 ratio of iso dweebs to cool dweebs.
:D remember runways so loud you cant hear vox? two guys up front and fifteen behind, roaring through the skies. oh yeah. :rock
oh the glory days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvUOgIgLqOQ
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Lusche on May 08, 2017, 03:26:04 AM
in the old days with 100-150 per side we could get a ten man mission going.
10% turnout for a mission was pretty good at that time, 20% was gigantic and only the most renowned MA leaders could muster such forces.
Remember things like this?:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap5-14.jpg) (MOM#2, picture by Guppy35 - http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,252907.0.html )
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: NatCigg on May 08, 2017, 06:19:04 AM
one we had a set of bombers for every large airfield hanger. bombers for town. fighter cover and jabo clean up and aerial troops. i remember 4 full dar bars as they were unable to manipulate the mass perfectly through the map. it was a big MA mission.
:rock
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Shuffler on May 08, 2017, 02:27:22 PM
When you have 38s you have everything.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: AceHavok on May 08, 2017, 09:49:35 PM
The price point curve would be interesting to see. From 15$ to free vs. 3000 to 3 million. It could resemble buggs bunnys trip through Albuquerque.
Honestly, I wouldn't doubt player numbers could jump to tens of thousands within a matter of a year if this game became free to play. With proper advertising of course. Though, this raises a very touchy subject on how HTC would create revenue through micro-transactions. First thing that comes to mind is being able to buy perk points or a 'premium' feature to be able to earn perk points faster.
Like I've said before, I'm no expert in this field and am just making an observation and sharing thoughts.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: SirNuke on May 10, 2017, 04:54:40 AM
my wish is that htc was more reactive to change MA gameplay. Getting flawed maps out of rotation should not take years, and arena settings should be changed more often in an attempt to improve gameplay and keep the game fresh.
I also wish that attack planes would be useful again and that probably means a gv nerf as well as a reduction of town size. Bigger is not better.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: oboe on May 10, 2017, 07:14:35 AM
If you think some maps are flawed, go here https://www.opavote.com/vote/5339594669162496 (https://www.opavote.com/vote/5339594669162496) and vote in the MA terrain poll.
I know what I like in a map, but I'm not sure everybody else likes the same thing. I'm curious to see how people rank the terrains, but I can't close the poll to see the results until we get more votes in. Currently at 61; would like to reach 100....
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: nooby52 on May 10, 2017, 07:33:38 AM
Can I vote more than once? :D
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Lazerr on May 10, 2017, 11:29:39 AM
The mechanics of the game are set up to with too many options to avoid what the majority consider "fun" combat.
More hide and seek going on now.
One simple fix I think would be eliminating supplying of towns. I used to be able to kick up a good fight on my own terms by flying to a base.. deacking the town and start hammering buildings. Typically a few guys would roll, come kill me or die trying, and 9 times out of 10 a furball would follow.
Now the go to defense of a base is pile m3's into town, while folks play solitare in their manned guns or ground vehicles.
I honestly dont bother logging in more than a handful of nights a month now. Its dissapointing, unless i have guys I know online to talk roadkill with. Most of the time we complain on vox about what I just typed above.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Wiley on May 10, 2017, 12:17:37 PM
Honestly, I wouldn't doubt player numbers could jump to tens of thousands within a matter of a year if this game became free to play. With proper advertising of course. Though, this raises a very touchy subject on how HTC would create revenue through micro-transactions. First thing that comes to mind is being able to buy perk points or a 'premium' feature to be able to earn perk points faster.
Like I've said before, I'm no expert in this field and am just making an observation and sharing thoughts.
As far as I'm concerned, the closest analogue to AH vs stuff like War Thunder is Planetside 2 vs something like Counterstrike. PS2 started out with almost 30k people in it. Nowadays, just a shade under 4k. Counterstrike's still in the 700k players range.
The gameplay comparison is fairly close, with PS2 quite a bit more ground focused than AH, less learning curve for the most part.
We're not going to get numbers like WT without completely changing the gameplay, IMO. People used to tolerate the style of gameplay here because there was no reasonably close option with more of a "game" to it. Now there is, and it's shown in the player numbers.
Although for people like me, if it became too much like other games, I'd stop playing. The gameplay is why I'm here. If I wanted rounds based stuff, I'd play something else.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: madrid311 on May 10, 2017, 02:06:52 PM
when playing ah3 this year every morning for the last 3 months at 5:30 am pac time there were 45 to 48 peeps on at that time. now its 30 to 38. this is a niche game. since i started 2 years ago i have mentioned to anyone who would listen and shown several people the game and to be honest they are just not interested. at all. in fact its so uncared about when i try and tell about a sortie or even explain it i get a blank look. I don't share anymore. i'm sure if it was advertised you might get some looks but seriously this game is to intricate for an average joe to just show up. you gotta want it and ww2 is so long ago, its lost a lot of interest in the younger crowd. I love all that it brings me. lets keep at it. peace
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Dobs on May 10, 2017, 02:29:07 PM
I think adding a nice stereo system to the m3 would help attract and keep new players. It would add more excitement to running that box of supplies into town with a basically invisable vehicle.
Since we have inflight Fighter Data Link in aircraft, do you think it would be stretch to have "DVD player" in the M3 as well? So you can watch a movie while you sit with engine off....wait...probably have to be an old timey movie with no sound so you can still listen.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: JimmyC on May 10, 2017, 03:44:22 PM
Maybe a chiller.for your iBeer too In fact..pay a premium and get to pimp your ride.. Lower M3..paint job..spinners.. Look cool while dropping those super bro And HTC makes coin..
Not
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Shuffler on May 10, 2017, 06:03:29 PM
The mechanics of the game are set up to with too many options to avoid what the majority consider "fun" combat.
More hide and seek going on now.
One simple fix I think would be eliminating supplying of towns. I used to be able to kick up a good fight on my own terms by flying to a base.. deacking the town and start hammering buildings. Typically a few guys would roll, come kill me or die trying, and 9 times out of 10 a furball would follow.
Now the go to defense of a base is pile m3's into town, while folks play solitare in their manned guns or ground vehicles.
I honestly dont bother logging in more than a handful of nights a month now. Its dissapointing, unless i have guys I know online to talk roadkill with. Most of the time we complain on vox about what I just typed above.
I just complain about Lazer. He's gone to wearing kilts now and he favors the short ones. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhh
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Scca on May 11, 2017, 08:44:31 AM
The entire game these days seems to be about capturing bases - don't pretend that troop running is some side show.
The defenders park their tanks in or near town and wait to ambush the M3 and the attackers bring their tanks to clear a path for the troops. Once any plane shows up to hunt tanks, out come the wirbs to get easy kills - and yes, it is far easier for a wirb to kill a plane than vice versa.
I wouldn't say "far". With the right approach it's not really that hard. Have a helper, it's quite easy really...
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Mister Fork on May 11, 2017, 11:04:44 AM
One simple fix I think would be eliminating supplying of towns.
Include speeding up the rebuild time for auto ack and buildings, then change the percentage down to 15%. That would make terrains cycle faster while making it the defenders base to loose for not getting in the air and defending the town. It would promote more activity providing more opportunities to shoot at people. One lanc box at this point would probably be able to drop the town in a single pass and then that would be it. Most players would need two or three passes and those changes would cause more people to get in the air because the current timing that is GV centric for town captures and defense would no longer exist. If the attack is by GV, the same field\town paradigm will exist, except the M4 with rockets would be more dangerous to a town and require faster elimination than trying to find it with a GV. And yes with the town down req at 15% with no resupply, there would be more GV attacks to drop bombs on and probably attract lazor to pick off IL2. But, a faster rebuild time would put the GV's on the spot, a box of lancs would become a better smash and grab tool.
Having watched the knights and now the rooks since the alpha testing into the current AH3 first year, missions no longer happen, the process has become organic and emotional. If an initiative takes the first field on any given evening, everyone asks which field next. Then they mount up willy-nilly and start the process again. If they have enough players and the defenders make enough mistakes, they have maybe two hours of base rolling. If you are a furballer who just happens to be on at that time, you have two hours of fun. The process runs out of steam and players start disappearing. The current base capture requirements are designed to frustrate and delay a 30 player attack as a legacy of the AH2 hoard days, today it "wears out" a 10-15 player attack in two hours over 3 maybe 4 bases. It does not promote long term sustained activity which is what new younger players will be looking for in a game. It will frustrate and grind them up quickly.
The current town capture cycle favors the GV game in terms of timing, GVs are slow and take time to get into a fight. That was obvious while I timed spawn point and airfield GV hanger to town times. I could have put the GV spawns 5 miles away and my terrain would be as hated as buzzsaw. But, GV attacks on airfields would have become a waste of time and captures a forum whine fest. The community accepts the 18 airfields on my terrain with no GV spawns to them. They fight all night to take one and never complain about GV spawns. But, if there was a GV spawn, and it severely limited the effectiveness of attacking GVs, they would burn down these forums with whines about being screwed on purpose by Hitech.
Base capturing is the primary activity generating source in the game before simply furballing. The current timing in the town resupply and rebuild is out of sync with today's smaller player numbers in the MA, if you want to make them self motivating based on success. Part of the malaise and seeming lack of energy(sissiness) in players is due to not thinking of capturing a field as an easy activity to have fun. When players happen to be in the right place and time with a field capture, the most sissy of them will fight even lazor. If you give them a choice, they will run, to ack, to a wirbel, or just away to not loose.
The feilds in AH right now do not make players look forward to tomorrow and winning territory, and playing Aces High the game as much as being with their friends for a few hours. What happens when their friends get bored with the current paradigm? Until something new is created by HTC, field capturing makes and breaks this game because it is what new players will do first to learn and love Aces High. If there is activity at a field, there are people to shoot.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 11, 2017, 01:03:19 PM
I think a fighter bowl with 3k air spawns inside of 1 sector, with a nice terrain, would allow a lot of players to enjoy the game without the serious gameplay and timing of the game play of the MA.. This arena would also greatly help new uus under stand the fight model, airplanes, and help them get right into the action without them aimlessly flying around in the MA without them knowing what's going on, in a huge Map. Use like a 16 player Max limit. It helps players greatly understand the game in a smaller environment and will bring them to the MA and make friends easier.
It's simple, easy, and will keep new players interested in the game who just want quick fighter action.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Hungry on May 11, 2017, 01:09:31 PM
7 pages by my count, I think Purzel the op is getting a lot more than he bargained for, lol, does it have to be beat to death every time?
Wishlist question
Dear Hitech
Please tell them to shut up and play the game, you've got it under control.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: bustr on May 11, 2017, 03:28:34 PM
I think a fighter bowl with 3k air spawns inside of 1 sector, with a nice terrain, would allow a lot of players to enjoy the game without the serious gameplay and timing of the game play of the MA.. This arena would also greatly help new uus under stand the fight model, airplanes, and help them get right into the action without them aimlessly flying around in the MA without them knowing what's going on, in a huge Map. Use like a 16 player Max limit. It helps players greatly understand the game in a smaller environment and will bring them to the MA and make friends easier.
It's simple, easy, and will keep new players interested in the game who just want quick fighter action.
That was the DA furball lake and it had 5K bases with ack to keep people from air spawn camping air spawns. If Hitech went for that kind of a terrain and players like you and myself were kept out of there, yes, it might work if a trainer was on duty from time to time to kick out shades. Even as a FTP arena. The automated match up arena allows players like us to turn new players into scooby snacks which is not a very good introduction to "Aces High, we will kill you as your reward for showing up in your first 30 seconds because we are desperate to kill anything that moves".
Everyone with a "tiny minority of statistical anomalys", learned this game by following base captures, and over time, deciding if they wanted to be only that or move on to ACM. If you don't keep the doors open, you won't grow the next generation of players interested in ACM. All those old farts who do base capturing keep the doors open with their subscriptions, and that mass activity will be where new players learn the ropes in the beginning. And where a few will find furballing is their calling.
It sounds like you want Hitech to make an IL2\War Thunder style of game play arena, why don't you just say that? But, once Hitech goes that route, why stay here and pay $15 a month when we can get that for free? Unless one of your long term goals is to get Aces High turned full FTP?
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: NatCigg on May 11, 2017, 03:54:57 PM
its really quite simple. hitech needs to play and post missions every 15 minutes. these missions will have real time targets of importance for the war. this will make the game fun for everyone. every other mission will be noe. problem solved, aces high is fun again, and people return.
it really is that simple.
:salute
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 11, 2017, 04:24:08 PM
That was the DA furball lake and it had 5K bases with ack to keep people from air spawn camping air spawns. If Hitech went for that kind of a terrain and players like you and myself were kept out of there, yes, it might work if a trainer was on duty from time to time to kick out shades. Even as a FTP arena. The automated match up arena allows players like us to turn new players into scooby snacks which is not a very good introduction to "Aces High, we will kill you as your reward for showing up in your first 30 seconds because we are desperate to kill anything that moves".
Everyone with a "tiny minority of statistical anomalys", learned this game by following base captures, and over time, deciding if they wanted to be only that or move on to ACM. If you don't keep the doors open, you won't grow the next generation of players interested in ACM. All those old farts who do base capturing keep the doors open with their subscriptions, and that mass activity will be where new players learn the ropes in the beginning. And where a few will find furballing is their calling.
It sounds like you want Hitech to make an IL2\War Thunder style of game play arena, why don't you just say that? But, once Hitech goes that route, why stay here and pay $15 a month when we can get that for free? Unless one of your long term goals is to get Aces High turned full FTP?
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 11, 2017, 05:28:44 PM
That was the DA furball lake and it had 5K bases with ack to keep people from air spawn camping air spawns. If Hitech went for that kind of a terrain and players like you and myself were kept out of there, yes, it might work if a trainer was on duty from time to time to kick out shades. Even as a FTP arena. The automated match up arena allows players like us to turn new players into scooby snacks which is not a very good introduction to "Aces High, we will kill you as your reward for showing up in your first 30 seconds because we are desperate to kill anything that moves".
Everyone with a "tiny minority of statistical anomalys", learned this game by following base captures, and over time, deciding if they wanted to be only that or move on to ACM. If you don't keep the doors open, you won't grow the next generation of players interested in ACM. All those old farts who do base capturing keep the doors open with their subscriptions, and that mass activity will be where new players learn the ropes in the beginning. And where a few will find furballing is their calling.
It sounds like you want Hitech to make an IL2\War Thunder style of game play arena, why don't you just say that? But, once Hitech goes that route, why stay here and pay $15 a month when we can get that for free? Unless one of your long term goals is to get Aces High turned full FTP?
Alright, I finally have time to write a thought out response to your insinuation. Before you write your next post, please consider the psychology and understanding of what I am about to share with you. This is from years of playing in all areas of AH, at the highest level.
Lets talk about the DA and DA Lake, and why new players aren't sticking around for only MA type action.
A. The DA dueling side of the map is very well done, is great for its purpose, and well used for the aspect of dueling. B. The DA Lake side of the map is a total disaster. No one flies there anymore. It needs to be removed, and the arena needs to be a Dueling only arena. C. Create a separate Map entirely designed for quick furball action. 1-2 sectors, 3-5 bases, air spawns, no Teams, and a few rules like no swearing/ friendly ganging/vulching D. This would work far better than the current DA Lake. The DA lake is still slow to get to furball, people gang with teams, 5k alt advantage on take off, water only scenery, cons hoarding around the bases waiting for the guy they just shot down to roll. There are so many reasons it's not working and why no one flies there anymore. E. A new Fast action arena would be totally different than IL-2 or WT because this isn't match play/ and the MA will still have your "Base takers guys" and players like them, and players who like the MA, It's not going to change any part of that game play. Most new players want fighter action, not slow base grab action. Players will join the fast action bowl arena, jump in, and swing away. There is no teams, there is no point to the game play, no scores, no ranks, players will be forced to engage very quickly. It would be a lot of fun, and will greatly enhance skills. It is in no way relating to the game play of WT or IL-2. It would also be great for players who like the flight model here better than Il-2 and WT. F. I think the "sharks eating the bait" analogy is a farce. Everyone gets killed quickly when they first start this game. In the MA it just takes you 15 minutes to die quickly, after you just spent all that time climbing and enjoying the scenery. That makes a lot more people pissed off and discouraged than if they just spawned and died within a 3-6 minute time frame. The MA takes a lot of time. I think that is the misconception that you guys have about this game. If I love AH, log into the map, and there is a lack of fights, or I dont have 40 minutes to find one/create one, where do I go to find some fun fighter action? Would you rather I go play WT or IL-2? Or would you rather me go to an arena with a map that is easily understandable, to keep me in the game, talking to players, fighting people, making friends/enemies, and helping others learn the game better? Even if they die quickly, they wont feel like they've wasted time just getting to the fight. This is a place for people to find quick, non organized, non team action, for quick fights. The MA is far more intense/big/challenging, than you realize, and that is because you have been playing for so long. When I started this game, dying over and over again was the way I learned, Luckily there was a quick map in h2h where I could have shorter sorties and not waste so much time just getting to the fights. Yaws and others beat me to a pulp, but it helped me learn the game better, its a big reason why I decided to subscribe after it was shut down. 2 weeks in the MA would have not allowed me to understand the gameplay, or level of fights in AH, and I think that's why so many players who check this game out dont stick around. There is no place for them to find quick action and learn the planes and jump into action easily. I think saying that "players will leave because they die quickly to good players" is a terrible reason because no one would ever play video games if that was the case. Im a newb at battlefield and die quickly, doesn't mean I hate the game and get discouraged, it just means there is more learning to do. Human Competition is always variable and always challenging, its part of the game. I actually think it would encourage players to keep playing the game and become better at it. G. This is what AH is really missing. You guys are under the illusions that you have a " furball arena" already, but there is a reason why no one plays on it and its still a far cry from a fun place to enjoy fighter combat without the intensity/time of the MA.
2. If you don't want to do that. The only way you can make the MA more actionable and more exciting for all the players who have to fly in the MA for the AH experience, is to make base distance shorter overall and keep the maps smaller overall. This will keep people from getting bored with the game, especially in the off hours. Smaller #s need smaller maps with closer base distance. You would be surprised at how much that will help the action of the game play. That's the biggest reason why CV fights are so fun and why so many people love CV fights. Quick. Fighter. Action. If you don't want to create a FFA arena bowl for that kind of action, then make the bases closer together so that players can enjoy the fights a little faster.
I really understand how the fights and action work in AH. I understand furballs better than anybody. I understand why so many people have gotten bored and left, which makes the game overall slower. It's a ripple effect. The maps and base distance need to be smaller for the current player base. That is the only thing that will keep players subscribed to the game and keep new players around after 2 weeks. It would bring many old players back and create a huge spark in excitement. People want action, not strategy.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Dundee on May 11, 2017, 06:13:06 PM
Alright, I finally have time to write a thought out response to your insinuation. Before you write your next post, please consider the psychology and understanding of what I am about to share with you. This is from years of playing in all areas of AH, at the highest level.
Lets talk about the DA and DA Lake, and why new players aren't sticking around for only MA type action.
A. The DA dueling side of the map is very well done, is great for its purpose, and well used for the aspect of dueling. B. The DA Lake side of the map is a total disaster. No one flies there anymore. It needs to be removed, and the arena needs to be a Dueling only arena. C. Create a separate Map entirely designed for quick furball action. 1-2 sectors, 3-5 bases, air spawns, no Teams, and a few rules like no swearing/ friendly ganging/vulching D. This would work far better than the current DA Lake. The DA lake is still slow to get to furball, people gang with teams, 5k alt advantage on take off, water only scenery, cons hoarding around the bases waiting for the guy they just shot down to roll. There are so many reasons it's not working and why no one flies there anymore. E. A new Fast action arena would be totally different than IL-2 or WT because this isn't match play/ and the MA will still have your "Base takers guys" and players like them, and players who like the MA, It's not going to change any part of that game play. Most new players want fighter action, not slow base grab action. Players will join the fast action bowl arena, jump in, and swing away. There is no teams, there is no point to the game play, no scores, no ranks, players will be forced to engage very quickly. It would be a lot of fun, and will greatly enhance skills. It is in no way relating to the game play of WT or IL-2. It would also be great for players who like the flight model here better than Il-2 and WT. F. I think the "sharks eating the bait" analogy is a farce. Everyone gets killed quickly when they first start this game. In the MA it just takes you 15 minutes to die quickly, after you just spent all that time climbing and enjoying the scenery. That makes a lot more people pissed off and discouraged than if they just spawned and died within a 3-6 minute time frame. The MA takes a lot of time. I think that is the misconception that you guys have about this game. If I love AH, log into the map, and there is a lack of fights, or I dont have 40 minutes to find one/create one, where do I go to find some fun fighter action? Would you rather I go play WT or IL-2? Or would you rather me go to an arena with a map that is easily understandable, to keep me in the game, talking to players, fighting people, making friends/enemies, and helping others learn the game better? Even if they die quickly, they wont feel like they've wasted time just getting to the fight. This is a place for people to find quick, non organized, non team action, for quick fights. The MA is far more intense/big/challenging, than you realize, and that is because you have been playing for so long. When I started this game, dying over and over again was the way I learned, Luckily there was a quick map in h2h where I could have shorter sorties and not waste so much time just getting to the fights. Yaws and others beat me to a pulp, but it helped me learn the game better, its a big reason why I decided to subscribe after it was shut down. 2 weeks in the MA would have not allowed me to understand the gameplay, or level of fights in AH, and I think that's why so many players who check this game out dont stick around. There is no place for them to find quick action and learn the planes and jump into action easily. I think saying that "players will leave because they die quickly to good players" is a terrible reason because no one would ever play video games if that was the case. Im a newb at battlefield and die quickly, doesn't mean I hate the game and get discouraged, it just means there is more learning to do. Human Competition is always variable and always challenging, its part of the game. I actually think it would encourage players to keep playing the game and become better at it. G. This is what AH is really missing. You guys are under the illusions that you have a " furball arena" already, but there is a reason why no one plays on it and its still a far cry from a fun place to enjoy fighter combat without the intensity/time of the MA.
2. If you don't want to do that. The only way you can make the MA more actionable and more exciting for all the players who have to fly in the MA for the AH experience, is to make base distance shorter overall and keep the maps smaller overall. This will keep people from getting bored with the game, especially in the off hours. Smaller #s need smaller maps with closer base distance. You would be surprised at how much that will help the action of the game play. That's the biggest reason why CV fights are so fun and why so many people love CV fights. Quick. Fighter. Action. If you don't want to create a FFA arena bowl for that kind of action, then make the bases closer together so that players can enjoy the fights a little faster.
I really understand how the fights and action work in AH. I understand furballs better than anybody. I understand why so many people have gotten bored and left, which makes the game overall slower. It's a ripple effect. The maps and base distance need to be smaller for the current player base. That is the only thing that will keep players subscribed to the game and keep new players around after 2 weeks. It would bring many old players back and create a huge spark in excitement. People want action, not strategy.
I think what you are saying take the game from a WW II sim...........to a WW II arcade game....R.I.P. AH3
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 11, 2017, 06:31:59 PM
Sigh.... :bhead
you act like I want to change the entire game.
Where does doing what I said make any part of the MA "arcady"
How does adding a real furball arena that actually works, take away from the game experience, when people would subscribe and keep their subscription due to fun non scored furball action with no team play.
You obviously didn't even read or understand anything that I wrote.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: ACE on May 11, 2017, 08:06:50 PM
I think a fighter bowl with 3k air spawns inside of 1 sector, with a nice terrain, would allow a lot of players to enjoy the game without the serious gameplay and timing of the game play of the MA.. This arena would also greatly help new uus under stand the fight model, airplanes, and help them get right into the action without them aimlessly flying around in the MA without them knowing what's going on, in a huge Map. Use like a 16 player Max limit. It helps players greatly understand the game in a smaller environment and will bring them to the MA and make friends easier.
It's simple, easy, and will keep new players interested in the game who just want quick fighter action.
He made match play for this exact situation
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 11, 2017, 08:57:07 PM
Where does doing what I said make any part of the MA "arcady"
How does adding a real furball arena that actually works, take away from the game experience, when people would subscribe and keep their subscription due to fun non scored furball action with no team play.
You obviously didn't even read or understand anything that I wrote.
You make a lot of assumptions based on what YOU like to do i the game.
Creating "another" Dueling/fast action arena will do nothing but draw a few players away from an already dwindling number of players in the Main arena. Newbies may try a da/fast action arena, but the sharks will quickly chase them away. Will they run to the main arena? I doubt it. 2 weeks of having their butts handed to them over and over will do nothing but see them look for a new game.
I'll jump on the assumption wagon here and go out on a limb. I'd bet that less than 25% of the player base right now likes/wants furballs. I think less than half of the players will actually fight for ANY reason. What ever type of game play they like/want, fighting for it is very low down on the list. Grab bases..... most are horde or NOE, why? Because they dont have to fight. Bombing milk runs..... 30K, why? they dont want to have to fight.... see bomb and bail. GV spawn camps. The only time you see guys NOT spawn camping is when some of the "elite" GVers break a spawn camp..... so they can camp the spawn.
Numbers are down because todays players dont want to leave their comfort zones. They dont want to take the time..... and all those deaths to learn other aspects of the game. So they are stuck doing to the 2 or 3 things they can do with out fighting and soon get bored. There is nothing wrong with the game, the price isn't something that is too much to bare, there are a lot of options available to many types of game play. The only issue is the players them selves. Pushing players to step outside of their box and try and learn.... and taking the lumps is all that is needed.
But how do you show them that there is so much more to the game outside that box?
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Toad on May 11, 2017, 09:07:25 PM
I'm just trying to get back into AH after a very long layoff, so forgive me if I'm not up to speed on all the new features.
I have played around in the Online Mission arena a bit. I've only seen one other player in there and he didn't stay long enough for a mission to start. So it's usually just me.
Seems to me that this _could_ be a really decent quick action furball experience. Right now it is not but it has the potential.
I haven't figured out how to create a Pickup Mission. Maybe someone could PM me the gouge on that.
I have played a Staged Mission or two, fighting with AI on my side against a total AI side. It can be good experience to get your shooting eye tuned back up and some of the AI are darn good at shooting my shorts off. I need work on my ACM, obviously. The missions airspawn so once it launches that action comes quickly.
Now there's slots in these Staged Missions for an 8 V 8 fur IF you could get 16 players in there. As I said, this is Huuuuuuuuge potential as our politician says. For the Axis v Allies crowd, all the sets seem to feature Axis aircraft on one side vs Allied on the other. It's got various type missions, fighters escorting bombers, etc.
The problems I see at the moment with the Staged Missions:
1. There can be 10+ minutes between missions. I think it should be like the old America's Army where another round starts very quickly after a round ends. There was always a scramble for slots. As it is, you sit around waiting 10+ minutes for the next fight to start. That's not going to be attractive to very many folks.
2. There aren't too many different mission setups in the rotation. There seem to be quite a few available for download but not that many running in the online rotation. More missions featuring different planesets would be a good thing.
3. This arena has the opposite problem of the old Yogi Berra saw: "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." The Mission Arena problem is "Nobody goes there because nobody goes there." If we could set up some Friday Fight Nights or something of a sort it might grow into a pretty fine arena for those who like fighter combat.
4. I see no need for there to be a "mission ends" segment. It's not the flying home and landing part of the game that generates excitement. It's the Fight. So, again like America's Army, the mission should just end when one side is totally eliminated. Last man standing. Fire up another mission and let's rumble!
5. After a mission ends there could be a brief score awarding screen. Scores would stick with a player so you could earn "rank" or something that would act as an incentive for those that need that.
Just my 02. If there's something I don't know or understand about this arena, please educate me.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: caldera on May 11, 2017, 10:42:11 PM
You make a lot of assumptions based on what YOU like to do i the game.
Creating "another" Dueling/fast action arena will do nothing but draw a few players away from an already dwindling number of players in the Main arena. Newbies may try a da/fast action arena, but the sharks will quickly chase them away. Will they run to the main arena? I doubt it. 2 weeks of having their butts handed to them over and over will do nothing but see them look for a new game.
I'll jump on the assumption wagon here and go out on a limb. I'd bet that less than 25% of the player base right now likes/wants furballs. I think less than half of the players will actually fight for ANY reason. What ever type of game play they like/want, fighting for it is very low down on the list. Grab bases..... most are horde or NOE, why? Because they dont have to fight. Bombing milk runs..... 30K, why? they dont want to have to fight.... see bomb and bail. GV spawn camps. The only time you see guys NOT spawn camping is when some of the "elite" GVers break a spawn camp..... so they can camp the spawn.
Numbers are down because todays players dont want to leave their comfort zones. They dont want to take the time..... and all those deaths to learn other aspects of the game. So they are stuck doing to the 2 or 3 things they can do with out fighting and soon get bored. There is nothing wrong with the game, the price isn't something that is too much to bare, there are a lot of options available to many types of game play. The only issue is the players them selves. Pushing players to step outside of their box and try and learn.... and taking the lumps is all that is needed.
But how do you show them that there is so much more to the game outside that box?
To go even further, people are too afraid to lose.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: nrshida on May 12, 2017, 12:47:33 AM
The DA Lake side of the map is a total disaster....
In the very brief period I got to fly AHIII (one afternoon) I was unable to take off from any of the furbal bases.
Once there was quite an active and friendly community in what you would call 'off hours' in AHII. We used to call it the 'Breakfast Club'. The point in the day when it would end would be marked by the number of Tempests showing up and those who were there to pick. Before then there was lots of 1 on 1s, 2 on 2s, small furbals, players wanting to improve their ACM. Many Breakfast Club players didn't have the machinery to get to AHIII. Including me. Assuming the numbers came back and the arena settings would change, your suggestion would deny this from returning. Why would this be positive?
I watched the daily decline of the Furbal lake which began in what you would call 'off hours' and grew outwards. My read is that as the numbers reduced, eventually a tipping point was reached. Very few people take the initiative to join an empty arena. In my daytime the numbers in the MA also dropped noticeably to under 12 players for many hours. These hours expanded to fill the bulk of my day in fact. I believe Lusche recorded similar experiences. Numbers similarly reducing and growing outwards - as they did at the furbal lake - would likely mark the begining of the end for AH. Declines like this aren't linear.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Purzel on May 12, 2017, 08:39:28 AM
7 pages by my count, I think Purzel the op is getting a lot more than he bargained for, lol,
For sure :rofl
But thanks for all the insight. As said before and in the thread quite a few times, the numbers are a lot lower than say 7 or so years ago. With varying reasons depending on the viewpoint...
I'll check back eventually to see how things develop.
Thanks again!
Purzel
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Hungry on May 12, 2017, 10:21:03 AM
But thanks for all the insight. As said before and in the thread quite a few times, the numbers are a lot lower than say 7 or so years ago. With varying reasons depending on the viewpoint...
I'll check back eventually to see how things develop.
Thanks again!
Purzel
Great job guys :bhead
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 12, 2017, 10:31:25 AM
did you read the part where he said he flys at euro time zones, gave it a try and was wondering if the numbers were this low normally.
lieing to people isn't going to get them to stay.
I dont pretend to know whats in the hearts and minds, my point was some of this stuff has been beat to death over and over by players who come across as knowing whats best for everybody
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: bustr on May 12, 2017, 11:23:09 AM
Fugi,
That is the single biggest complaint about that time window for the MA. Single digit numbers on each side.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 12, 2017, 11:37:30 AM
You make a lot of assumptions based on what YOU like to do i the game.
Creating "another" Dueling/fast action arena will do nothing but draw a few players away from an already dwindling number of players in the Main arena. Newbies may try a da/fast action arena, but the sharks will quickly chase them away. Will they run to the main arena? I doubt it. 2 weeks of having their butts handed to them over and over will do nothing but see them look for a new game.
I'll jump on the assumption wagon here and go out on a limb. I'd bet that less than 25% of the player base right now likes/wants furballs. I think less than half of the players will actually fight for ANY reason. What ever type of game play they like/want, fighting for it is very low down on the list. Grab bases..... most are horde or NOE, why? Because they dont have to fight. Bombing milk runs..... 30K, why? they dont want to have to fight.... see bomb and bail. GV spawn camps. The only time you see guys NOT spawn camping is when some of the "elite" GVers break a spawn camp..... so they can camp the spawn.
Numbers are down because todays players dont want to leave their comfort zones. They dont want to take the time..... and all those deaths to learn other aspects of the game. So they are stuck doing to the 2 or 3 things they can do with out fighting and soon get bored. There is nothing wrong with the game, the price isn't something that is too much to bare, there are a lot of options available to many types of game play. The only issue is the players them selves. Pushing players to step outside of their box and try and learn.... and taking the lumps is all that is needed.
But how do you show them that there is so much more to the game outside that box?
1. What I like to do in the game is fly around and shoot people.
2. I like to have a lot of red guys in a small vicinity to shoot at. That means there is action and intensity.
3. Define how 2 weeks of flying for 30 minutes only to die quickly when they find a con, is better, than if a player flies for 2-5 minutes and dies quickly, but can respawn into the fight over and over again and have the opportunity to find more people to fight with quickly? While still having an Open MA for all the players who like the MA.
4. Again, I don't think you actually read what I posted, because I made a clear argument against the pathetic "shark" theory you and Bustr have. Noobs already expect they will die over and over again. The point I am making is that, if you are learning the game, would you rather fly for 25 minutes to a base, only to die quickly by a higher 190D? OOORRR would you rather be able to go to another arena where you can respawn over and over again into the action with human players? This way you might actually get to shoot the guns one time. Not waste 20 minutes flying in a huge sector, not even knowing what is going on. I think this theory of "sharks eating the bait" is very wrong and makes little sense.
5. I disagree, I bet over 75% of the players want strong big furball fights. What you don't understand is that fighter players who want action have already left, leaving the people in the game who dont care or need other humans to be playing. Strategy land base players dont need other players. SO designing the gameplay to suit players who don't need players is illogical, and thats why #s are down. No one wants to fly an entire sector and a half to a base with 1 fighter in the sky, newbs wont even know what to do. Smaller maps and more condensed shorter base distances would bring back fights and action. A lot more people would re-subscribe than quit. You are pandering to the players that don't need players, and when that's all that is left after everyone leaves, you are afraid to make the changes back to the map, because you think the Land grab players will leave and then no one will play. I disagree with that assessment. More players will join than quit. Look at the #s when the Buzzsaw map comes on. That clearly represents that since fighter action is so hard to achieve there (far away bases and weird alt bases), and there is no small fighter bowl map to populate for quick action, people leave the entire game and forget about it. Its just not exciting. Why are you so against making the game more exciting again? Why are you so against making the fights more fun again by making a few simple changes to the map, and making bases closer? Its very illogical.
6. Your last paragraph explains why the MA has turned into what it has. I need you to think psychologically about why players are flying so timidly. TIME. Time is your big answer. IF you are new player, who realizes that it takes 20 minutes to climb up to a suitable alt, so you dont get picked, and you have to fly that long to a base, don't you think you are going fly pretty timidly and not want to die quickly? Think about it. Even if you arent a new player, you have to judge your time so you can make the run a success. New players don't want to take this much time only to die quickly to players in the MA. It is so much more frustrating for new players to get into this game, because they fly all the way to a base and get ganged by a couple of spit16s and LA7s. That is what is truely making players fly so timidly. An easy fix is to make bases closer, and/or add a FFA bowl so that players can actually find people to shoot and mess around with in a shorter period of time. You think pushing players outside of their box is going to change gamplay. The problem is, the only way to do that is to design maps that push people into bigger and shorter fights, that's the only way. If you don't want to create a simple fighter bowl or make changes that condense gameplay action. Players arent psychologically going to change the way they play if there is no reason for them to do so.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: LocoMoto on May 12, 2017, 03:48:38 PM
You guys are slowly eating eachother alive hahaha :bolt:
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 12, 2017, 06:35:06 PM
1. What I like to do in the game is fly around and shoot people.
It is relatively unimportant what you "like". You are not the majority by any means.
Quote
2. I like to have a lot of red guys in a small vicinity to shoot at. That means there is action and intensity.
See above.
Quote
3. Define how 2 weeks of flying for 30 minutes only to die quickly when they find a con, is better, than if a player flies for 2-5 minutes and dies quickly, but can respawn into the fight over and over again and have the opportunity to find more people to fight with quickly? While still having an Open MA for all the players who like the MA.
Again, fighting in a fighter isn't what EVERYONE wants. A new guy could also try GVin, buffs, supply runs (jeeps are fun), wirbles and other G2A activities, joining a mission or horde. None of which you will find in your "fast action" arena. Tell me, whats fun about flying 2 minutes to get shot down over and over again? Thats not going to draw people in, but have them hit that frustration level and quit sooner.
Quote
4. Again, I don't think you actually read what I posted, because I made a clear argument against the pathetic "shark" theory you and Bustr have. Noobs already expect they will die over and over again. The point I am making is that, if you are learning the game, would you rather fly for 25 minutes to a base, only to die quickly by a higher 190D? OOORRR would you rather be able to go to another arena where you can respawn over and over again into the action with human players? This way you might actually get to shoot the guns one time. Not waste 20 minutes flying in a huge sector, not even knowing what is going on. I think this theory of "sharks eating the bait" is very wrong and makes little sense.
I was very sure I was at least average if not a bit better when I got here from AW. I was very much mistaken. The shark ate me alive over and over again. The only thing that gave me half a chance was if I took 15-20 minutes to climb and use speed to try and pick those sharks while they were feeding. 2-3 minutes to fight, even if you get 20 more fights and hour is still going to teach a new guy how to die in one turn.
You see the "shark" today, they are the guys that do nothing but hover over a fight and pick guys who are in the middle of a fight. When you get them in a position to fight they just run away.
Quote
5. I disagree, I bet over 75% of the players want strong big furball fights. What you don't understand is that fighter players who want action have already left, leaving the people in the game who dont care or need other humans to be playing. Strategy land base players dont need other players. SO designing the gameplay to suit players who don't need players is illogical, and thats why #s are down. No one wants to fly an entire sector and a half to a base with 1 fighter in the sky, newbs wont even know what to do. Smaller maps and more condensed shorter base distances would bring back fights and action. A lot more people would re-subscribe than quit. You are pandering to the players that don't need players, and when that's all that is left after everyone leaves, you are afraid to make the changes back to the map, because you think the Land grab players will leave and then no one will play. I disagree with that assessment. More players will join than quit. Look at the #s when the Buzzsaw map comes on. That clearly represents that since fighter action is so hard to achieve there (far away bases and weird alt bases), and there is no small fighter bowl map to populate for quick action, people leave the entire game and forget about it. Its just not exciting. Why are you so against making the game more exciting again? Why are you so against making the fights more fun again by making a few simple changes to the map, and making bases closer? Its very illogical.
If they have already left how can there be 75% of players that still want to fight? Its a moot point as we will never see the numbers even if they did run a poll.
The game and maps are not geared toward any type of play, but allow ALL types of play. I agree some maps seem to have more action, but that is due to the shortness of the fronts. Mindanao, the small island map and uterus, all old maps have very short front lines and so leave very few places to hide. Bowl map does the same due to its islands setup. I have posted many suggestions of what I think could be done with game mechanics to "turn" game play into more interactive game than what the players have morphed this into.
Quote
6. Your last paragraph explains why the MA has turned into what it has. I need you to think psychologically about why players are flying so timidly. TIME. Time is your big answer. IF you are new player, who realizes that it takes 20 minutes to climb up to a suitable alt, so you dont get picked, and you have to fly that long to a base, don't you think you are going fly pretty timidly and not want to die quickly? Think about it. Even if you arent a new player, you have to judge your time so you can make the run a success. New players don't want to take this much time only to die quickly to players in the MA. It is so much more frustrating for new players to get into this game, because they fly all the way to a base and get ganged by a couple of spit16s and LA7s. That is what is truely making players fly so timidly. An easy fix is to make bases closer, and/or add a FFA bowl so that players can actually find people to shoot and mess around with in a shorter period of time. You think pushing players outside of their box is going to change gamplay. The problem is, the only way to do that is to design maps that push people into bigger and shorter fights, that's the only way. If you don't want to create a simple fighter bowl or make changes that condense gameplay action. Players arent psychologically going to change the way they play if there is no reason for them to do so.
I dont think "time" is an issue. It is a WWII game, not modern war. Things take time. Buffs dont fly across the map in 2 minutes it takes hours. Fighters take time to get speed and alt, GVs to find good ambush spots and the patience to wait for their prey to roll into the line of fire.
This game was never setup as "instant action", and personally I hope it never goes that way. That is what makes it such a great game and why it has lasted as long as it has. It isn't geared toward any one type of fight/action. There are many options so that a wide range of game players can find something they like.
I dont thing there is anything wrong with the game, we just need more numbers. With more numbers will bring more fights/action. They need new blood. Those of us who are left here are the core/old school players. We have already badgered everyone we know over the years to try this game. HTC has to get the word out about the game and what is available. We the players have to help these new guys find and learn how to play those aspects of the game that interest THEM, not what interests us.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: nrshida on May 13, 2017, 01:22:57 AM
I dont pretend to know whats in the hearts and minds, my point was some of this stuff has been beat to death over and over by players who come across as knowing whats best for everybody
Course. A lot of people are very passionate about the game and the forum tends to promote ideological duels-to-the-death. One going on here look.
I'd just interject that the game exists within a changing background culture. Western society has and is moving towards a more ego-centric, instant (rather than defered) gratification-based model of behaviour and expectations. This has certainly accelerated over the last twenty years. People become increasingly 'isolated' in real interaction but conversely richer in insulated interaction. People seem to expect to get their $15's-worth of I'm-Tom-Cruise per month.
WWII is still a popuar era of interest culturally in both film and games and there are more potential players available than ever before. I think it is not insignificant that you don't see squeekers anymore. Must consider why they've gone elsewhere.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Threeup on May 13, 2017, 01:27:14 AM
Course. A lot of people are very passionate about the game and the forum tends to promote ideological duels-to-the-death. One going on here look.
I'd just interject that the game exists within a changing background culture. Western society has and is moving towards a more ego-centric, instant (rather than defered) gratification-based model of behaviour and expectations. This has certainly accelerated over the last twenty years. People become increasingly 'isolated' in real interaction but conversely richer in insulated interaction. People seem to expect to get their $15's-worth of I'm-Tom-Cruise per month.
WWII is still a popuar era of interest culturally in both film and games and there are more potential players available than ever before. I think it is not insignificant that you don't see squeekers anymore. Must consider why they've gone elsewhere.
QFT
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: NatCigg on May 13, 2017, 10:23:22 AM
Again, fighting in a fighter isn't what EVERYONE wants. A new guy could also try GVin, buffs, supply runs (jeeps are fun), wirbles and other G2A activities, joining a mission or horde. None of which you will find in your "fast action" arena. Tell me, whats fun about flying 2 minutes to get shot down over and over again? Thats not going to draw people in, but have them hit that frustration level and quit sooner.
I dont think "time" is an issue. It is a WWII game, not modern war. Things take time. Buffs dont fly across the map in 2 minutes it takes hours. Fighters take time to get speed and alt, GVs to find good ambush spots and the patience to wait for their prey to roll into the line of fire.
This game was never setup as "instant action", and personally I hope it never goes that way. That is what makes it such a great game and why it has lasted as long as it has. It isn't geared toward any one type of fight/action. There are many options so that a wide range of game players can find something they like.
I dont thing there is anything wrong with the game, we just need more numbers. With more numbers will bring more fights/action. They need new blood. Those of us who are left here are the core/old school players. We have already badgered everyone we know over the years to try this game. HTC has to get the word out about the game and what is available. We the players have to help these new guys find and learn how to play those aspects of the game that interest THEM, not what interests us.
in the one on one arena i went spit 9 vs. blade. oh man, he shot me down every sortie. maybe 15 in a row over a span of 20 minutes or so. i was exhausted but click ready over and over i wanted to beat him. the session ended when overriding sense of being worn out and the fight itself wearing out. he was better than me. there was nothing more to do and we both felt spent on the situation. he salutes me and we both log off. in the ma i would still be climbing by bombers planning a route, surveying the war, and watching the dangerous skies.
yes, the simulated war is what drives the game. always has. the sooner fighter jocks start posting missions and join the fight, the sooner this game becomes fun again. :old:
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 13, 2017, 11:40:06 AM
in the one on one arena i went spit 9 vs. blade. oh man, he shot me down every sortie. maybe 15 in a row over a span of 20 minutes or so. i was exhausted but click ready over and over i wanted to beat him. the session ended when overriding sense of being worn out and the fight itself wearing out. he was better than me. there was nothing more to do and we both felt spent on the situation. he salutes me and we both log off. in the ma i would still be climbing by bombers planning a route, surveying the war, and watching the dangerous skies.
yes, the simulated war is what drives the game. always has. the sooner fighter jocks start posting missions and join the fight, the sooner this game becomes fun again. :old:
Yes but you have been here a long time. You know what to expect. You know your limitations. Most importantly you know the options available.
A newbie comes in and goes to that arena . Gets his butt handed to him time after time. "IF" he thinks that is all there is to the game, I'd bet he is done and we never see him again. I'd hope that the guys in there kicking butt are giving out advice and trying to help these guys get better, and let them know there are more options.
In the MA, I'll fly anything. I'll haul bombs and help out when there is a battle going on, but that is where we have fallen down in game play. As a Rook we rarely see any missions, but when we do,and for the most part, ALL missions turn into hordes, knits and Bish as well. Mission planners seem to think they need 4 guys on every hanger to make sure it goes down, then 10 guys to take out ack and vulch, and another half dozen buffs to dive bomb the town and vehicles. There is little skill or tactics involved any more. That leads to boredom, doing the same old mission over and over again.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 13, 2017, 12:43:22 PM
It is relatively unimportant what you "like". You are not the majority by any means.
See above.
Again, fighting in a fighter isn't what EVERYONE wants. A new guy could also try GVin, buffs, supply runs (jeeps are fun), wirbles and other G2A activities, joining a mission or horde. None of which you will find in your "fast action" arena. Tell me, whats fun about flying 2 minutes to get shot down over and over again? Thats not going to draw people in, but have them hit that frustration level and quit sooner.
I was very sure I was at least average if not a bit better when I got here from AW. I was very much mistaken. The shark ate me alive over and over again. The only thing that gave me half a chance was if I took 15-20 minutes to climb and use speed to try and pick those sharks while they were feeding. 2-3 minutes to fight, even if you get 20 more fights and hour is still going to teach a new guy how to die in one turn.
You see the "shark" today, they are the guys that do nothing but hover over a fight and pick guys who are in the middle of a fight. When you get them in a position to fight they just run away.
If they have already left how can there be 75% of players that still want to fight? Its a moot point as we will never see the numbers even if they did run a poll.
The game and maps are not geared toward any type of play, but allow ALL types of play. I agree some maps seem to have more action, but that is due to the shortness of the fronts. Mindanao, the small island map and uterus, all old maps have very short front lines and so leave very few places to hide. Bowl map does the same due to its islands setup. I have posted many suggestions of what I think could be done with game mechanics to "turn" game play into more interactive game than what the players have morphed this into.
I dont think "time" is an issue. It is a WWII game, not modern war. Things take time. Buffs dont fly across the map in 2 minutes it takes hours. Fighters take time to get speed and alt, GVs to find good ambush spots and the patience to wait for their prey to roll into the line of fire.
This game was never setup as "instant action", and personally I hope it never goes that way. That is what makes it such a great game and why it has lasted as long as it has. It isn't geared toward any one type of fight/action. There are many options so that a wide range of game players can find something they like.
I dont thing there is anything wrong with the game, we just need more numbers. With more numbers will bring more fights/action. They need new blood. Those of us who are left here are the core/old school players. We have already badgered everyone we know over the years to try this game. HTC has to get the word out about the game and what is available. We the players have to help these new guys find and learn how to play those aspects of the game that interest THEM, not what interests us.
Players like me are the majority fugitive. For some reason you simply just cannot connect the dots on why all the fighter squads left, or only play in the FSO. Why would fighter squads only play in FSO if that's nothing but fighter planes and bombers? Why have #s dropped when fighter action around the map is hard to find?
If people don't care about quick intensity fight, why have the #s dropped? Why have quick action games become so much more popular. There are sharks in WT and Il-2, didn't see those #s teetering. I want to keep the MA, the MA is a great concept. But AH is missing an arena for people who just want to tango in a short period of time, with no score.
I hate to say it but Nrshida's perception is correct, but my ideas don't even change the game one bit. An arena FFA bowl would only add extra fun for these types of players. It could possibly being in so many more players who enjoy combat and AH flight model.
You are really missing so much of what I say Fugitive. You want to pander to the weak minority and that's why the #s have dropped. How can you expect to expect the #s to increase when you want strategy, hide in threes, type of players who don't want other players around. You are pandering to people who don't want combat action, or anyone to see them, how are those playing styles going to increase the #s overall? They aren't, because only a few people have the patients for that. No fights and action around the maps leads to decreasing #s. It's that simple. That's why I suggest shorter base distances on smaller maps. It would fix game play without even changing any thing to the game.
You don't think there is anything wrong with the MA but that we just need more #s. How is that possible when the #s have been dropping do to lack of combat action? How do you get more #s back by pandering to the strategy "hide in the trees" players? Then you say the MA has been dying do to timid players ganging and picking, but don't understand why those situations become possible. Plus it's much more frustrating for a new player to spend 20 minutes climbing to a fight only to die quickly. You are very wrong on your assessment about an FFA bowl. The MA encourages timidness while there is no other map that encourages fighter ACM and fighter combat quickly. These players don't have anywhere to learn how to fight with other players, besides the Training arena, but that's more 1 on 1, and many new players don't have time for setting all of that up or knowing what to do, and asking players in the MA is a feat. They want to jump into the action and go all out. If you create a faster bowl FFA arena. These players would learn and understand combat a little better, and youd see more people fighting in the MA again, rather than running and extending at 20K because they don't know what to do.
Time is an issue Fugitive, especially when you spend 30 minutes and can't find a single red guy to shoot at. You spend 30 minutes to climb and then get ganged. You need to realise how this effects players so many people just don't have the time anymore to chase small dars In a big MA. I truely think you need to change your perspective because I simply don't think you truely undertsand what is bringing the #s to a stand.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 13, 2017, 01:39:46 PM
Players like you MAY have been the majority, but that was years ago.
FSO numbers are good because they use tactics and strategies instead of running horde missions.
We had an FFA arena in the old days, it was called the dueling arena with a nice big lake in the center of three bases. No it didnt air spawn you but all bases were at 5k and in minutes you were at speed and closing in on the "fight" at the center of the lake. But we all know what happened to that. Too many griefers turned it into a waste land and now its gone. I guess the theory of a quick action arena failed that time, why would it work now?
Im not pandering to any type of player. Im just saying that HTC MUST have all the option of different styles of game play available, other wise they are just cutting their throats. An all "fighter" game would never survive. A game with fighters, buffs, ships, vehicles, strat, base capture, ground 2 air has been rolling along over a dozen years.
Moving bases, do you know what is involved in that? Have you been following Bustr's journey? To move bases of the maps we have would mean rebuilding them from scratch. If you have been following Bustr map building you'd know that it takes months to do one map.
I think the numbers have been dropping due to boredom. The lack of fights is a by-product of the low numbers. Double the numbers and we would have twice the fights we have now. More people, more action. Pretty simple.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Zoney on May 13, 2017, 02:54:39 PM
Players like me are the majority fugitive. For some reason you simply just cannot connect the dots on why all the fighter squads left, or only play in the FSO. Why would fighter squads only play in FSO if that's nothing but fighter planes and bombers? Why have #s dropped when fighter action around the map is hard to find?
If people don't care about quick intensity fight, why have the #s dropped? Why have quick action games become so much more popular. There are sharks in WT and Il-2, didn't see those #s teetering. I want to keep the MA, the MA is a great concept. But AH is missing an arena for people who just want to tango in a short period of time, with no score.
I hate to say it but Nrshida's perception is correct, but my ideas don't even change the game one bit. An arena FFA bowl would only add extra fun for these types of players. It could possibly being in so many more players who enjoy combat and AH flight model.
You are really missing so much of what I say Fugitive. You want to pander to the weak minority and that's why the #s have dropped. How can you expect to expect the #s to increase when you want strategy, hide in threes, type of players who don't want other players around. You are pandering to people who don't want combat action, or anyone to see them, how are those playing styles going to increase the #s overall? They aren't, because only a few people have the patients for that. No fights and action around the maps leads to decreasing #s. It's that simple. That's why I suggest shorter base distances on smaller maps. It would fix game play without even changing any thing to the game.
You don't think there is anything wrong with the MA but that we just need more #s. How is that possible when the #s have been dropping do to lack of combat action? How do you get more #s back by pandering to the strategy "hide in the trees" players? Then you say the MA has been dying do to timid players ganging and picking, but don't understand why those situations become possible. Plus it's much more frustrating for a new player to spend 20 minutes climbing to a fight only to die quickly. You are very wrong on your assessment about an FFA bowl. The MA encourages timidness while there is no other map that encourages fighter ACM and fighter combat quickly. These players don't have anywhere to learn how to fight with other players, besides the Training arena, but that's more 1 on 1, and many new players don't have time for setting all of that up or knowing what to do, and asking players in the MA is a feat. They want to jump into the action and go all out. If you create a faster bowl FFA arena. These players would learn and understand combat a little better, and youd see more people fighting in the MA again, rather than running and extending at 20K because they don't know what to do.
Time is an issue Fugitive, especially when you spend 30 minutes and can't find a single red guy to shoot at. You spend 30 minutes to climb and then get ganged. You need to realise how this effects players so many people just don't have the time anymore to chase small dars In a big MA. I truely think you need to change your perspective because I simply don't think you truely undertsand what is bringing the #s to a stand.
Give me a break already Violator. Players like you are NOT the majority or the majority of players would do nothing but furball, that is clearly not the case. There already are things in place where those that just want to furball can easily do so but you aren't doing that, you just want to change how other players want to play. You are guessing and expressing your opinions, and that's just fine, but you do not really know why the numbers dropped. Nor do I believe that you know what it would take to get the numbers back up, you have an opinion and again, that's fine but is just that, an opinion. And by no means is yours the majority opinion just because you say it is so.
As an example, I have been playing a long time here. I like the long sorties. I like the hunt. I have a great time every time I play and it is different every time. I see a lot of action all over. Is every sortie dream perfect, no. That's the beauty of it, you've got to be ready to change your plans, improvise, be flexible. The inability or unwillingness for you to do so is what's making you so miserable.
When I'm flying I see a lot of guys doing what I'm doing. I see a lot of guys having a good time GV'ing. I see a lot of buffs that are fun to intercept. And I see a lot of guys finding a bunch of fights.
Finally, my opinion is it is you that needs to change, not the game, not how players play. This is not those other games. This is this game. This game has a thousand different ways to play it.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: guncrasher on May 13, 2017, 03:02:03 PM
fso is a couple of horde fighter missions looking for 1 or 2 hordes of bombers missions while avoiding the horde of enemy fighters.
sorry fugitive that's how simple fso is. lots of fun though.
semp
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 13, 2017, 03:39:08 PM
Players like you MAY have been the majority, but that was years ago.
FSO numbers are good because they use tactics and strategies instead of running horde missions.
We had an FFA arena in the old days, it was called the dueling arena with a nice big lake in the center of three bases. No it didnt air spawn you but all bases were at 5k and in minutes you were at speed and closing in on the "fight" at the center of the lake. But we all know what happened to that. Too many griefers turned it into a waste land and now its gone. I guess the theory of a quick action arena failed that time, why would it work now?
Im not pandering to any type of player. Im just saying that HTC MUST have all the option of different styles of game play available, other wise they are just cutting their throats. An all "fighter" game would never survive. A game with fighters, buffs, ships, vehicles, strat, base capture, ground 2 air has been rolling along over a dozen years.
Moving bases, do you know what is involved in that? Have you been following Bustr's journey? To move bases of the maps we have would mean rebuilding them from scratch. If you have been following Bustr map building you'd know that it takes months to do one map.
I think the numbers have been dropping due to boredom. The lack of fights is a by-product of the low numbers. Double the numbers and we would have twice the fights we have now. More people, more action. Pretty simple.
I've already explained why the DA did not work, it is not a FFA, it's team based which causes problems. Again, as I explained to bustr, you are stuck in an illusion that because the DA lake failed, people don't want fast action fighting, but the real reason it failed is because it's a terrible layout that doesn't work.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: nrshida on May 13, 2017, 03:55:35 PM
Why don't you make some YouTube videos Zoney. I like to see what other people like to do in AH.
I'd make some myself but I can't figure out that camera view thing that Dolby used to do (http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/facepalm.gif)
Pffftttttttttt.............I'm an idiot and videos required more than being an idiot. I'm lucky just to have oposable thumbs or I'd be lost. The videos would have to be "condensed" or they might prove boring for the majority of players. I hunt buffs, high buffs a lot. That requires me to read and guess what might be coming and when and be there waiting to pounce. I would also be afraid that a video would give away my .engagecloaking device cheat or let everyone know who my shade was that tells me where the bombers are going :devil :salute
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 13, 2017, 04:19:34 PM
Worked fine for me. I almost lived in there for four years :banana: :rofl
This actually proves my point in one way. You lived there for four years because it was a way to find quick fun fighter action. BAM! There are so many other people who are the same way. The reason why no one flies in it anymore is because it's too big and still takes too much time. You are right about it being 0 populated, which is hard to get players in it. But if 2-4 players were to go into the fighter bowl that was only 1 sector total, it would spark the fights much better than the current layout, and you won't have teams to lopside the #s. You can't shoot your teammate and that's a problem becuase it limits the players you can fight agaisnt in 1 sortie and creates gangs. Every other reason I've already mentioned over and over again is why it's lacking in action. I still think the # one reason why the AvA is not getting any traction is that the map just doesn't make sense and the bases are still too far apart. Keep it simple.
All I'm saying is that a non team, FFA sector large bowl, limiting temps and 262s, would work so much better, and bring people who can't find action on the MA, find action here.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: nrshida on May 13, 2017, 04:40:57 PM
The reason why no one flies in it anymore is because it's too big and still takes too much time.
Sorry to differ with you but I thought the size was just about perfect in my timezone (probably a bit small when I got to fly in your peak times). There was often several smaller furbals or 1 on 1s going on. Often had a new player behind a base going over some BFM with him. The duelling fields were too far apart. Eventually we had MickyD's duelling map for that. Airspawns close together. That only allowed duelling though.
You lived there for four years because it was a way to find quick fun fighter action. BAM!
Actually to the contrary. A lot of my 'breakfast club' time was waiting for people to finish 1 on 1s or flying around by myself waiting for friends to show up. I used to fly circles with my wingtip touching the water. For a time it even threw a rooster tail before some update took that away. I simply found the furbal lake to be more ACM-focussed. Big cultural shock for me when I did start to fly MA. I couldn't undertand why people would fly away when co-e or from 1 on 1s. I'd become used to the culture of fighting it out regardless of starting positions or numbers.
The lake made me a proper ACM-head, but I learned to tolerate and appreciate other activities than what I was into.
End of the day you need people to play with. I think tolerance and providing faciltiy for people to do their thing is better than trying to funnel players into this or that activity or behaviour.
Merely my subjective opinion of course.
:salute
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: cav58d on May 13, 2017, 04:47:25 PM
Lack of maps is a real problem. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I am tremendously disappointed that after returning from a ten year break there are not at least 20 maps in rotation. It takes time, I know. Bustr has been working on his map for many months, right? Bustr likely has a full time job and Isn't working on the map 9-5. I don't understand why HTC isn't doing this?
Strats are an issue. They should be extremely difficult to hit and just as hard to supp. Make them high risk, high effort for a high reward. Take away the GV spawns.
Speaking of GV's, they are definitely changing the game and I'm not sure it's for the better. Absolutely no reason to launch a goon when nearly all the fields have a spawn for bum rush of stealth M3's running at full speed to a town that was one pass white flagged by lancs. The MA has become an arcade game, long live FSO.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Vraciu on May 13, 2017, 05:53:53 PM
Lack of maps is a real problem. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I am tremendously disappointed that after returning from a ten year break there are not at least 20 maps in rotation. It takes time, I know. Bustr has been working on his map for many months, right? Bustr likely has a full time job and Isn't working on the map 9-5. I don't understand why HTC isn't doing this?
Strats are an issue. They should be extremely difficult to hit and just as hard to supp. Make them high risk, high effort for a high reward. Take away the GV spawns.
Speaking of GV's, they are definitely changing the game and I'm not sure it's for the better. Absolutely no reason to launch a goon when nearly all the fields have a spawn for bum rush of stealth M3's running at full speed to a town that was one pass white flagged by lancs. The MA has become an arcade game, long live FSO.
Bingo.
Bingo.
Bingo.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 13, 2017, 06:54:44 PM
Sorry to differ with you but I thought the size was just about perfect in my timezone (probably a bit small when I got to fly in your peak times). There was often several smaller furbals or 1 on 1s going on. Often had a new player behind a base going over some BFM with him. The duelling fields were too far apart. Eventually we had MickyD's duelling map for that. Airspawns close together. That only allowed duelling though.
Actually to the contrary. A lot of my 'breakfast club' time was waiting for people to finish 1 on 1s or flying around by myself waiting for friends to show up. I used to fly circles with my wingtip touching the water. For a time it even threw a rooster tail before some update took that away. I simply found the furbal lake to be more ACM-focussed. Big cultural shock for me when I did start to fly MA. I couldn't undertand why people would fly away when co-e or from 1 on 1s. I'd become used to the culture of fighting it out regardless of starting positions or numbers.
The lake made me a proper ACM-head, but I learned to tolerate and appreciate other activities than what I was into.
End of the day you need people to play with. I think tolerance and providing faciltiy for people to do their thing is better than trying to funnel players into this or that activity or behaviour.
Merely my subjective opinion of course.
:salute
The Faster arena would be more ACM oriented because people would actually fight and be able to learn combat much more quickly. It doesn't matter if you die over and over again, its about the time it takes to get to the fight, if there is one. That's the whole point. What you and bustr and Fugitive still can't understand is why people run and gang in the MA. It's because of Time and lack of fight undertsanding. That's the biggest reason. People don't fight becuase they don't know how. They don't have anywhere to learn or just figure out some basics before they get into the MA. There is no place to practice fighting because the DA lake is terrible and doesn't work great as a furball arena. The reasons I've already mentioned is why it's not working. The 5K team based lake is boring and planes always enter with an advantage from their base or get ganged next to their base rolling. It doesn't work. People are running away and flying timidly in the MA because they don't want to die quickly after getting to a base and spending 15-20 minutes just to get there. That's just how the MA is. What you guys don't realise is that I am offering a better solution to fixing the ganging and lack of Fights in the MA, becuase people will have the chance to learn their skills more quickly in a FFA setting and they will utilize those skills to fight better in the MA. You really have to think about this from a new persons point of view. Or at least from a returning players point of view who is craving WW2 airplane action and can't find a real fight on the map. Many sorties can take up 45 minutes to get 3-6 kills.
There has to be away to find quicker fights in AH, if they can't make adjustments to the arenas than make the new maps have a little bit shorter base distance. That's the best way to spark excitment back into AH.
One thing I do agree with you on was the base distance between dueling fields. But the spawns work pretty well now so it's alright.
Lack of maps is a real problem. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I am tremendously disappointed that after returning from a ten year break there are not at least 20 maps in rotation. It takes time, I know. Bustr has been working on his map for many months, right? Bustr likely has a full time job and Isn't working on the map 9-5. I don't understand why HTC isn't doing this?
Strats are an issue. They should be extremely difficult to hit and just as hard to supp. Make them high risk, high effort for a high reward. Take away the GV spawns.
Speaking of GV's, they are definitely changing the game and I'm not sure it's for the better. Absolutely no reason to launch a goon when nearly all the fields have a spawn for bum rush of stealth M3's running at full speed to a town that was one pass white flagged by lancs. The MA has become an arcade game, long live FSO.
I agree with everything here too, good points.
You all think I want to make the game a different way, which is totally false and untrue if you read anything I write. I want to add a better furball area and or make base distance shorter on smaller maps. That's it. Very simple things.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: cav58d on May 13, 2017, 08:37:31 PM
I would love to see a trial run of the following changes:
Increase town and all strat hardness to match that of city strat.
Remove all GV spawns from strats.
Increase vehicle identification range.
Double if not triple ords and radar hardness.
I doubt this will draw in new players, but it will definitely make for better MA gameplay and keep the interest of the current player group.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: morfiend on May 14, 2017, 12:48:23 AM
SO a FFA close quarter setup is going to promote BFM/ACM... :rolleyes:
A bunch of new players who can barely fly and everyone is a valid target and somehow players are going to learn to fight...
I would predict a HO fest at the least and the constant whines would drive even more players away. I could be wrong but doubt that!
I blame the trainers.....errr wait...... :devil
:salute
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: nrshida on May 14, 2017, 01:55:54 AM
What you and bustr and Fugitive still can't understand is why people run and gang in the MA.
Not understanding and not agreeing are two different things. You tend to argue authoritatively instead of logically. For instance in this thread you've already stated 'I understand furballs better than anybody'. How do you know some people don't understand equally - or better? Even if they do does that mean they uniquely know how to increase player numbers?
I myself don't follow your logic at all how the DA or lack of a more streamlined alternative is responsible for all the evils of AH. The DA worked just fine for me and many others in AH2. Largely as a community in itself but also many of the top sticks would drop into the lake, new players, derusting players. Numbers have reduced significantly across the board and the DA was the first to feel it.
The reasons I've already mentioned is why it's not working.
It's unclear even to me how the new DA works in AH3. I made a free account and while I could go to the furbal bases and select a plane I was unable to take off. I'm assuming the arena settings have changed?
Before suggesting an architectural restructuring, perhaps consider a new player's perspective looking at the official webpage. If you go to the homepage and click on game info, arenas you get this:- http://www.hitechcreations.com/gameinfo/gameinfo-arenas Explaining in needless detail how the AH2 arenas were disposed. In fact it's even the old version of that, explaining the coloured splits of the multiple MAs. What's that three years out of date? Four?
People are running away and flying timidly in the MA because they don't want to die quickly after getting to a base and spending 15-20 minutes just to get there.
There's a lot of diversity in beliefs and activities and there should be. You are assuming everyone wants to spend years learning the intricacies of ACM. You must have observed some people play for the challenge / self-development, some for results. To some the game is a serious ego-aligning tool, for others it's just light entertainment. Accomodating everyone would seem to me a more logical way to maximise player numbers.
There has to be away to find quicker fights in AH,
More players? I don't disagree with proposing alternate arenas, even providing a spectrum of these won't fill them though.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: ACE on May 14, 2017, 07:59:24 AM
The funny thing is hitech has made an arena specifically catered towards people who want instant action. IE -Match Play. It's disguised under the name Dueling Arena. I really can't see violaters point here. His direction is like "I know what's best for this game, listen to me" but what he's wanting is already here it's called match play.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 14, 2017, 09:04:19 AM
I've already explained why the DA did not work, it is not a FFA, it's team based which causes problems. Again, as I explained to bustr, you are stuck in an illusion that because the DA lake failed, people don't want fast action fighting, but the real reason it failed is because it's a terrible layout that doesn't work.
So are you looking for duels or furballs?
As nrshida said, the DA is setup as match play and you can have 1v1 2v2 or more flight after flight. The old DA WAS a furball setup and you say that doesnt work, so why set it up again?
If your looking for a MA were you can have fights in piece with out others jumping in, forget it. None of this is going to increase fighting or make better play in the game. The game is what it is due to the way "most" players play it. Years ago the players were more into fighting for a base, think the BOPs, the LTARS, and the 444th Air Mafia. Those days there were lots of fights because that is what the majority of players wanted. Score was unimportant, and it was all about the fight. Today the player mentality is more geared toward the kill count (HOs for the WIN!) quick base grabs to roll the map and win the war.
Late last night there was only about 100 players in the MA. Knits and Bish were fighting over bases on the west side of the map (bish had the numbers and a small ENY). Us poor Rooks had nothing to fight. LilMak and I hit the Bish field on the east side of the lake as our CV was closing in. This made the Bish nervous as all hell and they came across the lake to defend. YAAAAAA!!! a fight. Out numbered 2 to 1 we valiant Rooks pressed on! 10 minutes later the Bish sank the CV and everyone left to continue to fight the Knits.
They used the quickest easiest way to STOP a fight :rolleyes: then went back to grabbing bases from the Knits. The majority of players dont want to fight today. We need more players, hopefully some of those WILL want to fight.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: cav58d on May 14, 2017, 09:39:32 AM
Fugitive, you can't point fingers at anyone for sinking a CV. There was never a point in this game where players have "for the sake of the fight" allowed the ship to sail.
As stated earlier, the problem in our little World War II combat flight simulator, is the go-to vehicle has become the GV. And this is coming from someone who GVs on the regular, check my stats.
In addition to the recommendations I made a couple posts ago I'd like to add one more.
Make GV's manual transmission like they were in 07. Get rid of number 1 pan view, and only allow the tank to be steerable from the drivers seat and possibly the turret.
GV's absolutely have a place in Aces High but there needs to be some challengers for the sake of balance.
Edit: Reduce the amount of troops an M3 can hold to 6. Base capture via GV would now require 2 M3's or a single M3's and 2 jeeps.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: 715 on May 14, 2017, 10:04:14 AM
GVs are not the go to vehicle. On average only about 25% of players "in flight" are in GVs. (On maps that are good for GV action the number can reach 35%; on maps bad for GVs it can fall towards 0%.)
Some people are in GVs because they enjoy it. If you get rid of GVs or make them tiresome to use, those people will just leave. So your approach to increasing the number of players is to get rid of about a quarter of them.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 14, 2017, 10:49:51 AM
Not understanding and not agreeing are two different things. You tend to argue authoritatively instead of logically. For instance in this thread you've already stated 'I understand furballs better than anybody'. How do you know some people don't understand equally - or better? Even if they do does that mean they uniquely know how to increase player numbers?
I myself don't follow your logic at all how the DA or lack of a more streamlined alternative is responsible for all the evils of AH. The DA worked just fine for me and many others in AH2. Largely as a community in itself but also many of the top sticks would drop into the lake, new players, derusting players. Numbers have reduced significantly across the board and the DA was the first to feel it.
Just for an alternative I did suggest recently that the TA be made free:- http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,386932.0.html
It's unclear even to me how the new DA works in AH3. I made a free account and while I could go to the furbal bases and select a plane I was unable to take off. I'm assuming the arena settings have changed?
Before suggesting an architectural restructuring, perhaps consider a new player's perspective looking at the official webpage. If you go to the homepage and click on game info, arenas you get this:- http://www.hitechcreations.com/gameinfo/gameinfo-arenas Explaining in needless detail how the AH2 arenas were disposed. In fact it's even the old version of that, explaining the coloured splits of the multiple MAs. What's that three years out of date? Four?
There's a lot of diversity in beliefs and activities and there should be. You are assuming everyone wants to spend years learning the intricacies of ACM. You must have observed some people play for the challenge / self-development, some for results. To some the game is a serious ego-aligning tool, for others it's just light entertainment. Accomodating everyone would seem to me a more logical way to maximise player numbers.
More players? I don't disagree with proposing alternate arenas, even providing a spectrum of these won't fill them though.
I do know furballs better than most. I have experience, kills, score, and I post the #s in the combat Challenge ( a giant furball) to prove it. I understand how this game works and have fought and played with the best in the game who have left because of bordem and lack of action. I know what's wrong, besides the strats issue, and it's Time along with Maps. The player #s will increase when action is easier and quicker to find. It's that simple. So many players have come to check out AH3 from the old days, and nothing has changed, they fly around aimlessly for 25 -30 minutes per one sortie and are lucky to get a few kills without getting ganged by 5. It takes too much time for lack of reward and it's too hard for most who don't take it to the extreme.
Why can't you guys wrap your heads around the failure of the DA lake? Literally no one uses it anymore. That's the problem. You want #s to magically increase by saying you want #s to increase, but then can't understand why the #s have not increased. Where is your logic? Obviously the arena has not been successful because people don't enjoy fighting in the lake. You still have to spend 10 minutes getting to the middle of the DA lake. That's boring. That's not what I am insisting that we do. This lake Does Not Work BECAUSE NO ONE IS IN THERE!! That's a sure reason to say some things need to be adjusted. Lets not forget about the water that caused people to stop playing there, since it was all water with no depth perception. Saying we have one, but no one uses it, so therefore people don't want quick action, is a poor excuse, when so many things can be fixed. It's simply a bad design. Back then people were concerned about learning air combat and could join H2H or the DA to find some quick fights. Now there is no place to besides the TA, where you have to request training. That's not what I am talking about. We need an arena where people don't have to jump through hoops and talk to people to find action. I want a battle royal arena bowl over a cool terrain. It works. You will be damned surprised. There really isn't any harm in creating one either, so I don't understand why you all are so opposed to it.
You say #s have decreased across the board but are affraid to try anything new. Affraid to try something very easy, and something that is very fun for players. But you can't understand why #s have decreased. I'm trying my damnedest to get you to understand why, but you guys cannot connect the dots and provide no solutions besides Cav (which had good points, especially about GVs) . Boring, slow, game play.
The TA is cool for players who want to take the game a little more seriously. It's great for players who want to learn 1v1 action. It's not great for players who want quick action furball fights when they only have 15-20 minutes to play the game. You could make the TA free, but the type of arena that it is, and the lack of trainers in there, don't really provide any action for a player just checking out the arena. Hell, some people don't even know how to use the radio in their first week. A combat bowl arena is the best option and will allow players to find action without having to do much. There are so many better solutions than what we have now. What we have now doesn't work well to hook new players who want to get involved in fighter action. The MA is too slow for new players, and DA Lake is just too big.
The funny thing is hitech has made an arena specifically catered towards people who want instant action. IE -Match Play. It's disguised under the name Dueling Arena. I really can't see violaters point here. His direction is like "I know what's best for this game, listen to me" but what he's wanting is already here it's called match play.
Nope, see you don't get it either. It's amazing how you guys don't see my vision, but then can't comprehend why it's not working and why #s arent increasing.
The DA match play is cool. I'm not taking anything away from that. Here's what you are not getting. It takes at least 2 players to have a DA match. You have to go around and ask people to go to the DA with you. New players don't know anyone, and sure as hell aren't going to ask a random player to go DA with them, becuase they don't even understand the DA in the first place. Secondly, the DA is not filled because a player has to wait until the other players are ready, before the fight can begin. Again, that's awesome when people know what they are doing, it doesn't work for new people. They will go to the DA, see no one there, and leave. No one is going to sit there until enough players join the DA.
A simple FFA fast action bowl arena would attract people much more easily. They can choose their plane. See the action in a sector big map, spawn at 3K, and instantly be apart of the action. The #s would build up much easier here than in the DA. You dont have to ask or wait. More players will join this arena because it's so easy to find action. You will know where the action is on a 1 sector arena. I'm talking something similar to a KOTH arena with a few more bases. Once a few people get in there, the fights will pick up. This concept would work much better than the current Da lake. The reason why the lake is a failure is because of distance and team play that limits players you can fight agaisnt, and causes gangs. The DA map is also just too big for people to understand.
The DA map should also just get rid of the DA lake, and renamed Match Play.
There should be. Separate arena all together that is for furballing. Which is what I am suggesting.
The main page should be
Main Arena Training arena Match play dueling arena FFA fighter bowl
These 4 on the front page would attract #s.
The custom arenas will start to get more populated when smaller maps are created.
My idea would work a hell of a lot better and actually get results. I guarantee it.
As nrshida said, the DA is setup as match play and you can have 1v1 2v2 or more flight after flight. The old DA WAS a furball setup and you say that doesnt work, so why set it up again?
If your looking for a MA were you can have fights in piece with out others jumping in, forget it. None of this is going to increase fighting or make better play in the game. The game is what it is due to the way "most" players play it. Years ago the players were more into fighting for a base, think the BOPs, the LTARS, and the 444th Air Mafia. Those days there were lots of fights because that is what the majority of players wanted. Score was unimportant, and it was all about the fight. Today the player mentality is more geared toward the kill count (HOs for the WIN!) quick base grabs to roll the map and win the war.
Late last night there was only about 100 players in the MA. Knits and Bish were fighting over bases on the west side of the map (bish had the numbers and a small ENY). Us poor Rooks had nothing to fight. LilMak and I hit the Bish field on the east side of the lake as our CV was closing in. This made the Bish nervous as all hell and they came across the lake to defend. YAAAAAA!!! a fight. Out numbered 2 to 1 we valiant Rooks pressed on! 10 minutes later the Bish sank the CV and everyone left to continue to fight the Knits.
They used the quickest easiest way to STOP a fight :rolleyes: then went back to grabbing bases from the Knits. The majority of players dont want to fight today. We need more players, hopefully some of those WILL want to fight.
I am looking for FFA quick drop furball bowl arena action. This would actually work in getting more people interested in fighting and interested in the flight model. It would go along way to promote fighter combat understanding and provide a smaller arena for people to figure out the game. No scoring would go a long way to promote action and not greedy game play. There wouldn't be gang up teams. There wouldn't be base ack and 15K tempest. It would be a great place to figure out the fighters, maybe a place to work on new planes, and just a place to let off some steam.. the majoirity of players do want a fight, but the MA has all types of action, and people take it more seriously. In this arena it would just be based on fighting and action. This is what I'm talking about Fugitive. If you get tired of Bombers constantly taking down the CV or FHs, ruining your fights, then wouldn't you have fun being able to go to arena that only promotes fighter action? I think it would be great. Many people would still play in the MA, and nothing would be takin from it. I'm simply just figuring out a way to make the game overall more fun for more types of players. This will attract an increase players because it would keep them in the game fighting, instead of logging off after the other team kills the fight in the MA.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: cav58d on May 14, 2017, 10:54:48 AM
GVs are not the go to vehicle. On average only about 25% of players "in flight" are in GVs. (On maps that are good for GV action the number can reach 35%; on maps bad for GVs it can fall towards 0%.)
Some people are in GVs because they enjoy it. If you get rid of GVs or make them tiresome to use, those people will just leave. So your approach to increasing the number of players is to get rid of about a quarter of them.
As a GVer I would appreciate the challenge. And let me re-phrase, GV's are the vehicle of choice for base captures. Even when there isn't a vehicle spawn I've seen more base captures via 45 minute M3 drives then flying a goon.
BF110 was such an awesome plane back in 2007, but who needs it anymore when you can just take an M4 rocket tank to town while in stealth mode and with impunity to ack.
Make some changes to the GV's and the game gets better.
Focus efforts on updating things like the SBD and the main arena will further become a ghost town.
<S>
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: NatCigg on May 14, 2017, 11:08:43 AM
the use of the 110 is not an efficient vehicle without, say 5-7 guys. also, the noe raid that fit the 110 perfectly was neutered around the time numbers started dropping. coincidence? :headscratch: fighter jocks complain about lame noe fights...game gets restricted...people leave. :headscratch:
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Lusche on May 14, 2017, 11:18:34 AM
Lack of maps is a real problem. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I am tremendously disappointed that after returning from a ten year break there are not at least 20 maps in rotation. It takes time, I know. Bustr has been working on his map for many months, right? Bustr likely has a full time job and Isn't working on the map 9-5. I don't understand why HTC isn't doing this?
Strats are an issue. They should be extremely difficult to hit and just as hard to supp. Make them high risk, high effort for a high reward. Take away the GV spawns.
Speaking of GV's, they are definitely changing the game and I'm not sure it's for the better. Absolutely no reason to launch a goon when nearly all the fields have a spawn for bum rush of stealth M3's running at full speed to a town that was one pass white flagged by lancs. The MA has become an arcade game, long live FSO.
That sums it up right there.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 14, 2017, 11:47:18 AM
I do know furballs better than most. I have experience, kills, score, and I post the #s in the combat Challenge ( a giant furball) to prove it. I understand how this game works and have fought and played with the best in the game who have left because of bordem and lack of action. I know what's wrong, besides the strats issue, and it's Time along with Maps. The player #s will increase when action is easier and quicker to find. It's that simple. So many players have come to check out AH3 from the old days, and nothing has changed, they fly around aimlessly for 25 -30 minutes per one sortie and are lucky to get a few kills without getting ganged by 5. It takes too much time for lack of reward and it's too hard for most who don't take it to the extreme.
Why can't you guys wrap your heads around the failure of the DA lake? Literally no one uses it anymore. That's the problem. You want #s to magically increase by saying you want #s to increase, but then can't understand why the #s have not increased. Where is your logic? Obviously the arena has not been successful because people don't enjoy fighting in the lake. You still have to spend 10 minutes getting to the middle of the DA lake. That's boring. That's not what I am insisting that we do. This lake Does Not Work BECAUSE NO ONE IS IN THERE!! That's a sure reason to say some things need to be adjusted. Lets not forget about the water that caused people to stop playing there, since it was all water with no depth perception. Saying we have one, but no one uses it, so therefore people don't want quick action, is a poor excuse, when so many things can be fixed. It's simply a bad design. Back then people were concerned about learning air combat and could join H2H or the DA to find some quick fights. Now there is no place to besides the TA, where you have to request training. That's not what I am talking about. We need an arena where people don't have to jump through hoops and talk to people to find action. I want a battle royal arena bowl over a cool terrain. It works. You will be damned surprised. There really isn't any harm in creating one either, so I don't understand why you all are so opposed to it.
You say #s have decreased across the board but are affraid to try anything new. Affraid to try something very easy, and something that is very fun for players. But you can't understand why #s have decreased. I'm trying my damnedest to get you to understand why, but you guys cannot connect the dots and provide no solutions besides Cav (which had good points, especially about GVs) . Boring, slow, game play.
The TA is cool for players who want to take the game a little more seriously. It's great for players who want to learn 1v1 action. It's not great for players who want quick action furball fights when they only have 15-20 minutes to play the game. You could make the TA free, but the type of arena that it is, and the lack of trainers in there, don't really provide any action for a player just checking out the arena. Hell, some people don't even know how to use the radio in their first week. A combat bowl arena is the best option and will allow players to find action without having to do much. There are so many better solutions than what we have now. What we have now doesn't work well to hook new players who want to get involved in fighter action. The MA is too slow for new players, and DA Lake is just too big.
Nope, see you don't get it either. It's amazing how you guys don't see my vision, but then can't comprehend why it's not working and why #s arent increasing.
The DA match play is cool. I'm not taking anything away from that. Here's what you are not getting. It takes at least 2 players to have a DA match. You have to go around and ask people to go to the DA with you. New players don't know anyone, and sure as hell aren't going to ask a random player to go DA with them, becuase they don't even understand the DA in the first place. Secondly, the DA is not filled because a player has to wait until the other players are ready, before the fight can begin. Again, that's awesome when people know what they are doing, it doesn't work for new people. They will go to the DA, see no one there, and leave. No one is going to sit there until enough players join the DA.
A simple FFA fast action bowl arena would attract people much more easily. They can choose their plane. See the action in a sector big map, spawn at 3K, and instantly be apart of the action. The #s would build up much easier here than in the DA. You dont have to ask or wait. More players will join this arena because it's so easy to find action. You will know where the action is on a 1 sector arena. I'm talking something similar to a KOTH arena with a few more bases. Once a few people get in there, the fights will pick up. This concept would work much better than the current Da lake. The reason why the lake is a failure is because of distance and team play that limits players you can fight agaisnt, and causes gangs. The DA map is also just too big for people to understand.
The DA map should also just get rid of the DA lake, and renamed Match Play.
There should be. Separate arena all together that is for furballing. Which is what I am suggesting.
The main page should be
Main Arena Match play dueling arena FFA fighter bowl
These three on the front page would attract #s.
My idea would work a hell of a lot better and actually get results. I guarantee it.
I am looking for FFA quick drop furball bowl arena action. This would actually work in getting more people interested in fighting and interested in the flight model. It would go along way to promote fighter combat understanding and provide a smaller arena for people to figure out the game. No scoring would go a long way to promote action and not greedy game play. There wouldn't be gang up teams. There wouldn't be base ack and 15K tempest. It would be a great place to figure out the fighters, maybe a place to work on new planes, and just a place to let off some steam.. the majoirity of players do want a fight, but the MA has all types of action, and people take it more seriously. In this arena it would just be based on fighting and action. This is what I'm talking about Fugitive. If you get tired of Bombers constantly taking down the CV or FHs, ruining your fights, then wouldn't you have fun being able to go to arena that only promotes fighter action? I think it would be great. Many people would still play in the MA, and nothing would be takin from it. I'm simply just figuring out a way to make the game overall more fun for more types of players. This will attract an increase players because it would keep them in the game fighting, instead of logging off after the other team kills the fight in the MA.
I just checked and to up and run to the center of the lake was less than 2 minutes..... 10 minute, wrong.
I think your miss remembering a lot of stuff. You had fun in fights back then and didn't look at anything else in the game. To you that means EVERYBODY wants only to fight in fighters. Trust me, they dont.
You can test this out right now. You can open a custom arena and publish the heck out of it. BBS post with the times your going to have it open. Jump in the MA and announce that you are opening one in 15 minutes all fighters welcome! like they use to do to load a mission, announce it every minute or so. Open your FFA arena and see who shows. I think you will be very surprised at how few do show.
Building a map for a "new" arena takes time, months easily. Then how are you going to populate it? Players are not going to magically show up and start furballing. The same as with the MA, there has to be an active advertising blast. That is what is so good about Stream. It is a place that many gamers go looking for games to play, all very centralized. AH needs to get their name out there better. They are a niche game hidden in a corner.
HTC needs to print up a bunch of Tshirts. "You too can fly a WARBIRD!" "Ask me about AH!" Printed on the back. They can sell them at cost to players who then wear them to all the Airshows they will visit this summer.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 14, 2017, 11:56:36 AM
I just checked and to up and run to the center of the lake was less than 2 minutes..... 10 minute, wrong.
I think your miss remembering a lot of stuff. You had fun in fights back then and didn't look at anything else in the game. To you that means EVERYBODY wants only to fight in fighters. Trust me, they dont.
You can test this out right now. You can open a custom arena and publish the heck out of it. BBS post with the times your going to have it open. Jump in the MA and announce that you are opening one in 15 minutes all fighters welcome! like they use to do to load a mission, announce it every minute or so. Open your FFA arena and see who shows. I think you will be very surprised at how few do show.
Building a map for a "new" arena takes time, months easily. Then how are you going to populate it? Players are not going to magically show up and start furballing. The same as with the MA, there has to be an active advertising blast. That is what is so good about Stream. It is a place that many gamers go looking for games to play, all very centralized. AH needs to get their name out there better. They are a niche game hidden in a corner.
HTC needs to print up a bunch of Tshirts. "You too can fly a WARBIRD!" "Ask me about AH!" Printed on the back. They can sell them at cost to players who then wear them to all the Airshows they will visit this summer.
I do agree with you on a marketing strategy don't get me wrong. But the game also needs to be marketed within itself, and keep players in the game, rather than go somewhere else.
To your second part about custom maps. There aren't many that have been built yet. AH2 had so many great small maps. Smog 8 for example. But they are all gone. Maps that are designed for 10-20 players need to be very small. Maybe 2 sectors max.
Also, there was a dueling map that was created where players could spawn into the duel was a great concept. This map was taking off with popularity. Now it is gone. I seriously thing another one can easily be created in about the span of 4 hours. All you really need is 4 bases, 10 random Air spawns, on a little Island. That's it!
The custom maps will maybe gain some popularity once there are better maps that aren't incredibly huge. Thats really the way I see it!
The issue with DA lake is water, teams, gangs, boring fighting scenery, 5K bases, it's just not exciting, and fighting over that much water is weird on the eyes!
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: nrshida on May 14, 2017, 12:07:27 PM
I know what's wrong, besides the strats issue, and it's Time along with Maps. The player #s will increase when action is easier and quicker to find. It's that simple.
It is not that simple. There are multiple factors and variables, some external to the game which you don’t address at all. Some problem domains have no internal solutions.
I'm trying my damnedest to get you to understand why, but you guys cannot connect the dots…
I’m not disputing you are convinced you’re right, that’s apparent. I’m saying you aren’t making a convincing argument or supplying evidence to support your claims. You’re just implying others don’t understand (as well as you do) when people don’t accept your assertions. Perhaps they understand better in fact. Are you able to consider that?
Why can't you guys wrap your heads around the failure of the DA lake? Literally no one uses it anymore.
There are any number of reasonable possibilities why that is now empty. I still don’t understand your assertion that MA players flow directly from initiation, through the DA and into the MA. That is not my experience at all. 10 minutes to the centre of the lake? Are we even discussing the same place?
Nope, see you don't get it either. It's amazing how you guys don't see my vision, … My idea would work a hell of a lot better and actually get results. I guarantee it.
A dogma is an unsupported tenet or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true. That’s all you’re doing at this point Violator.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Lusche on May 14, 2017, 12:14:15 PM
I also think it's a very flawed and incorrect one :neener:
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 14, 2017, 12:15:00 PM
Another thing that would go a very long way in promoting action in AH would be to update the Arena Message every week regarding special events going on. There are some people who don't even know they exist and never go on the forums. It would be great to know all the events and what time they are that week!
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 14, 2017, 12:24:20 PM
I also think it's a very flawed and incorrect one :neener:
Well, the inaction that you guys persist is great and wonderful, is actually causing a decline in growth of #s. Where as my assertions of game play psychology and flight undertsanding of AH maps, would actually make the overall game more enjoyable for more types of players, and could keep them in the game to subscribe and continue learning. Therefore I believe all of your guys arguements are flawed.
Edited for adding "maps"
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Lusche on May 14, 2017, 12:26:53 PM
Well, the inaction that you guys persist is great and wonderful, is actually causing a decline in growth of #s. Where as my assertions of game play psychology and flight undertsanding of AH, would actually make the overall game more enjoyable for more types of players, and could keep them in the game to subscribe and continue learning. Therefore I believe all of your guys arguements are flawed.
:rofl
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: nrshida on May 14, 2017, 01:00:30 PM
yes it was. :old: prior to complaints about finding a fight, there were complaints about full dar bars popping around the map. Tidy generals were unpleased with a war they could not contain or grapple, they summoned the hi-tec to rectify the issue. 25 mile radars overlapped the land and scanned below tree level. in a simple shift of a workday a entire sect of the population was flayed. even the rowdy jocks chuckled at the bold move. (see hitler you tube movie clip.) The shockwaves still resonate in a artificially low radar altitude.
:cry
:salute
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Lusche on May 14, 2017, 01:14:42 PM
The first major hit to the classic AH NOE was the reduction of the radar altitudes, which happened in tour 125-126, June/July 2010. The numbers had already been dropping significantly for a long time at that point.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: NatCigg on May 14, 2017, 01:40:28 PM
:aok
wow seven years ago.
did we factor in the end of the dogfights series on discovery and the aces high tv ad's? :headscratch:
:lol
:salute
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: ACE on May 14, 2017, 04:18:46 PM
Well, the inaction that you guys persist is great and wonderful, is actually causing a decline in growth of #s. Where as my assertions of game play psychology and flight undertsanding of AH maps, would actually make the overall game more enjoyable for more types of players, and could keep them in the game to subscribe and continue learning. Therefore I believe all of your guys arguements are flawed.
Edited for adding "maps"
No. You just think your ideas will work. You don't know anything. You are just making assumptions based on how you and your friends have always played. You claim to have a great understanding of everyThing about this game yet when it comes to laying it out you do a horid job. To dictorial and aggressive.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Lazerr on May 14, 2017, 08:55:36 PM
There were plenty of intense furballs in the MA before.. there is no need for a special arena. Cut the roadkill with resupply and watch what happens.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: flyndung on May 14, 2017, 11:50:34 PM
just my .02 , on why numbers are low , there are people that play this game that rub others wrong real easy and no one wants to play and move on, problem is HTC won't do nothing about them cause that's their main source of income so they cater to them instead of the people that may want to play the game. so number in my humble opinion won't go up unless those people are removed. thats my observation
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 15, 2017, 01:23:40 PM
No. You just think your ideas will work. You don't know anything. You are just making assumptions based on how you and your friends have always played. You claim to have a great understanding of everyThing about this game yet when it comes to laying it out you do a horid job. To dictorial and aggressive.
They will work. I have never seen these types of arenas fail. There's no doubt in my mind that people want a quick to play arena. It is much better for 2 weekers who dont want to fly 30 minutes sorties to find action.
Why are you so against trying it? It's not like it will hurt anything.
All that is failing is people's patients. That is something you guys haven't figured it out yet.
Again, you insist on keeping the game the same, while #s are teetering. If you aren't going to listen to the real pros of the game, and understand why it has slowed, you are going to fall prey to the same inaction slow #s we've seen for the past 4 years. It is time to make some changes.
There were plenty of intense furballs in the MA before.. there is no need for a special arena. Cut the roadkill with resupply and watch what happens.
I also want this to change too because I think its a good point. That being said, the off #s do not create good fights around the map, because it is too big. Therefore, a smaller arena for guys who want action, would work at keeping them in the game and fighting. Id surely like to go to an arena like this. I think the DA lake is too big and boring, and so people just log off instead of looking for a fun area to fight with people.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: SirNuke on May 15, 2017, 01:36:16 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Zoney on May 15, 2017, 02:27:33 PM
If you aren't going to listen to the real pros of the game, and understand why it has slowed, you are going to fall prey to the same inaction slow #s we've seen for the past 4 years.
This is where we have a disconnect. You saying you're "the real pro of the game", does not make it so anymore than you beating the crap out of us daily about how your ideas will work just cause you said so. Your relentless, pompous badgering has absolutely worn me out to the point I'm no longer willing to listen to anything you say. I feel I am not alone.
Good day to you sir.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: TheBug on May 15, 2017, 03:07:40 PM
"..the real pros of the game..."
Hehe, that's rich. :rofl
That boy needs help.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: nrshida on May 15, 2017, 03:24:32 PM
If you aren't going to listen to the real pros of the game...
Ah, an indication of a thinking pattern largely based on confirmation bias. A dangerous path. (http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/detective2.gif)
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Shuffler on May 15, 2017, 03:32:40 PM
Fugitive, you can't point fingers at anyone for sinking a CV. There was never a point in this game where players have "for the sake of the fight" allowed the ship to sail.
As stated earlier, the problem in our little World War II combat flight simulator, is the go-to vehicle has become the GV. And this is coming from someone who GVs on the regular, check my stats.
In addition to the recommendations I made a couple posts ago I'd like to add one more.
Make GV's manual transmission like they were in 07. Get rid of number 1 pan view, and only allow the tank to be steerable from the drivers seat and possibly the turret.
GV's absolutely have a place in Aces High but there needs to be some challengers for the sake of balance.
Edit: Reduce the amount of troops an M3 can hold to 6. Base capture via GV would now require 2 M3's or a single M3's and 2 jeeps.
We have allowed CVS to sail as long as they were not trying to capture. Fighting a CV offshore is the best fights. Mostly low and quick. This can go on for hours if the CV is not trying to capture the base.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 15, 2017, 03:35:43 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: ACE on May 15, 2017, 04:18:59 PM
Pro of the game. I am totally done with this cat. No where near a pro of this game LOL
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: TheBug on May 15, 2017, 04:21:33 PM
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: bustr on May 15, 2017, 04:39:37 PM
Quote
I also want this to change too because I think its a good point. That being said, the off #s do not create good fights around the map, because it is too big. Therefore, a smaller arena for guys who want action, would work at keeping them in the game and fighting. Id surely like to go to an arena like this. I think the DA lake is too big and boring, and so people just log off instead of looking for a fun area to fight with people.
Real simple oh pro of the game, build this map. Then have a personal conversation with Hitech on it's merits while he tests it for inclusion, and giving you a new special arena just because you are a pro, and know what will work, because you are an obvious pro, and know these things. Oh pro of the game....
At this point in your telling anyone who will listen about your superior ability in knowing the game, because you have personally nominated yourself a pro. You nuked your bridges and anything else that you might have used to persuade a terrain to be built to your specifications because you are such a superior kind of AH player and a trusted house hold brand in the game. Because you are such an obvious pro.....at something..... :rolleyes:
Ok everyone, who here doesn't believe Viloator isn't the pro he has nominated himslef to be over the rest of us poor shlubs when it comes to AH3?? Do any of you remember voting or even being approached for an opinion?? Anyone got a copy of the memo at least?? Did Oboe run one of his internet voting thingys without posting the right link again....??
Pro of the game.
Ok, anyone wanna pass the hat for a statue of Violator to be erected next to the map room on the terrain editor town object to commemorate his Pro whatever ism?? It's gonna take at least a truck load of Hitech's bribe to get him to agree to a statue of something or another, wonder what Waffle will want to create it...... :confused:
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 15, 2017, 08:51:32 PM
They will work. I have never seen these types of arenas fail. There's no doubt in my mind that people want a quick to play arena. It is much better for 2 weekers who dont want to fly 30 minutes sorties to find action.
Why are you so against trying it? It's not like it will hurt anything.
All that is failing is people's patients. That is something you guys haven't figured it out yet.
Again, you insist on keeping the game the same, while #s are teetering. If you aren't going to listen to the real pros of the game, and understand why it has slowed, you are going to fall prey to the same inaction slow #s we've seen for the past 4 years. It is time to make some changes.
I also want this to change too because I think its a good point. That being said, the off #s do not create good fights around the map, because it is too big. Therefore, a smaller arena for guys who want action, would work at keeping them in the game and fighting. Id surely like to go to an arena like this. I think the DA lake is too big and boring, and so people just log off instead of looking for a fun area to fight with people.
I dont think anyones is against your ideas per say, we all are just pretty sure they wont work out like you think they will.
Another thing, do you investigate anything you say BEFORE you say it? You said 10 minutes to get to the center of furball lake and its only 2. Also, did you know there are over 50 maps available when you set up a custom arena? How is anyone suppose to believe you know what your talking about when you cant get verifiable facts out strait.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Dace on May 15, 2017, 09:25:57 PM
This is where we have a disconnect. You saying you're "the real pro of the game", does not make it so anymore than you beating the crap out of us daily about how your ideas will work just cause you said so. Your relentless, pompous badgering has absolutely worn me out to the point I'm no longer willing to listen to anything you say. I feel I am not alone.
Good day to you sir.
You are definitely not alone. This dude's been gumming up the boards with his ignorance for years. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: save on May 16, 2017, 05:38:01 AM
Most of the maps are ok, less than a sector to fly and kill each other.
Basetakers use GV's only after a 20k buff killed the town, no fighters anywhere to be seen from the attacking force, best defense seem to A20/Lancstuka them, and resupply with GV's, leaving little to be done in a fighter aicraft.
Get too close to your town and a gazillion of Wirbys disassemble you before you even see their icons.
C47's are as rare as Heinkel 111s at 25k. ****************************************
Changes I would like to implement : small airbases - GV spawns should not go to all airfields. This game-mechanics force some bases to be taken from air - or a looong ride in a GV.
When you shoot with a GV or 88mm/17pounder, smoke that can be clearly seen for 2-3 seconds from 3k, forcing real GV tactics - shoot and scoot.
Radar should not go down when you strafe with aircraft 20mm/mg -4 rocket hits or a bomb should do it, or a load of 30mm+.
The C47 shuld take 2-3X number of grunts of a little GV troop carrier, make it harder for GV'er to use one stealth-GV to take a whole base.
Only divebombers/jabo should be able to dive bomb, Bombers should use the bomb-sight (no F3 bombing).
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: thndregg on May 16, 2017, 07:56:25 AM
I have really tried to come back, but just can't stick to it due to other real world, expensive, and rewarding priorities. Overall, I just don't game much. I haven't put the money into updated hardware/software "gadgetry". I still maintain the subscription because I have always supported HiTech's premise behind the operation of his company and game, and, when the real life situation is right, I'll be back into it- most likely doing my old thing of massive 91st BG-style bombardment. ;)
EGG
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Arlo on May 16, 2017, 08:15:34 AM
Changes I would like to implement : small airbases - GV spawns should not go to all airfields. This game-mechanics force some bases to be taken from air - or a looong ride in a GV.
When you shoot with a GV or 88mm/17pounder, smoke that can be clearly seen for 2-3 seconds from 3k, forcing real GV tactics - shoot and scoot.
Radar should not go down when you strafe with aircraft 20mm/mg -4 rocket hits or a bomb should do it, or a load of 30mm+.
The C47 shuld take 2-3X number of grunts of a little GV troop carrier, make it harder for GV'er to use one stealth-GV to take a whole base.
Only divebombers/jabo should be able to dive bomb, Bombers should use the bomb-sight (no F3 bombing).
Agree. :aok
Also:
Harden ammo bunkers, forcing GV attackers to have air support to protect them from jabos and the jabos to have fighter support, etc., etc. Suicide 190s killing ammo and radar are getting old.
M4 rocket tanks should generate a lot of smoke that can be seen from a long distance.
GV icon range should be the same for enemy and friendly -- just like aircraft. If a wirb is invisible to me, it should be invisible to his team as well.
YMMV
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: cav58d on May 16, 2017, 11:17:07 AM
Harden ammo bunkers, forcing GV attackers to have air support to protect them from jabos and the jabos to have fighter support, etc., etc. Suicide 190s killing ammo and radar are getting old.
M4 rocket tanks should generate a lot of smoke that can be seen from a long distance.
GV icon range should be the same for enemy and friendly -- just like aircraft. If a wirb is invisible to me, it should be invisible to his team as well.
YMMV
All of this. GV definitely has a role in this game, it just needs some updating.
Only other point I would add is increase start hardness and we have a pretty decent game.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Vraciu on May 16, 2017, 12:01:05 PM
You really haven't been paying attention over the years have you? Might as well have said "Boards are still open I see."
Wiley.
I don't even bother with loco's posts anymore. How can you believe/give any weight to what he says when he won't even give us his in game name.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: nrshida on May 16, 2017, 01:19:28 PM
Things are sometimes said out of frustration and anger. One cannot mentalize or maintain an overview in this state. Let's not gather the pitchforks and torches just yet.
He's right anyway. I am infact an idiot at least 9 times a day, and I have four degrees :rofl
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: lunatic1 on May 16, 2017, 01:29:10 PM
:ahand whaaaa whaaa whaaa boohoo boohoo I can't find a fightg in my perk plane.. solution: try flying to a base to get your fight instead of hangin around your own field where you can dive into your ack...if you only fly planes don't worry about gv's it's nunya-if you only gv don't worry about planes it's nunya....Bowlma and buzzsaw are the only 2 NEW maps in rotation the rest are redesigned from AH2-mostly trees are added the the killable buildings design are more realistic very cool. we started losing players a year before AH3 was in beta even when Alpha..contrary to popular belief WOT WT WOW are not free exacly. yes entry level yes, but you have to pay for higher level equipment. but they still have a lot of players. you watch them on youtube and see that.
Changes I would like to implement : small airbases - GV spawns should not go to all airfields. This game-mechanics force some bases to be taken from air - or a looong ride in a GV.
When you shoot with a GV or 88mm/17pounder, smoke that can be clearly seen for 2-3 seconds from 3k, forcing real GV tactics - shoot and scoot.
Radar should not go down when you strafe with aircraft 20mm/mg -4 rocket hits or a bomb should do it, or a load of 30mm+.
The C47 shuld take 2-3X number of grunts of a little GV troop carrier, make it harder for GV'er to use one stealth-GV to take a whole base.
Only divebombers/jabo should be able to dive bomb, Bombers should use the bomb-sight (no F3 bombing).
man that's some hellofa eyesight there to see gv barrel smoke from 3k Save you don't GV so why do you care? what gv's do
countries lose bases to gv's because they don't investagate why town is flashing or check flashing--knights very bad about that<-- did type that out loud?
leave gv spawns alone--buzzsaw is the only map to have real close spawn to town distance.....
dangit done lost train of thought bye
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: outsider on May 16, 2017, 01:46:37 PM
I agree with nrshida, too many people want to attack other people and their views be them the way they want it or not. Fact is its not changing anything if you prove somebody else wrong. State your desire of game play and if management agrees to look at it or work with it then you've accomplished something, then negotiate the outcome, with management to fine tune the game in the utilitarian manner. Seems like a better way to get changes to the game. the " I know more than you do because im better than you" thing is just a waste of time and frankly unbecoming of your intelligence. Basically If " Hitech" doesn't think its a good idea, or don't want tot do it for whatever reason all your are doing is name calling, yeah Im offended that somebody would state that they in a pro class above all the other players in this game, me included " Livewire" he is a lot better at alot of things than me, most of your are but im also sure you all think you're better than most people in the game also so what are gaining here aim at Hitech to get the game changes that's what will work not calling out an arrogant person you'll be too busy to play if you don't.
Just my two cents worth,
Livewire
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Lazerr on May 16, 2017, 01:56:48 PM
The REAL pros fly with a mouse and drink beer at the same time..
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Oldman731 on May 16, 2017, 01:57:31 PM
Things are sometimes said out of frustration and anger. One cannot mentalize or maintain an overview in this state. Let's not gather the pitchforks and torches just yet.
Wise words.
We're all big fans of this game, and, like big fans of any game, sometimes our emotions get the best of us. Or we hit the "send" button without bothering to go back over what we wrote. Remember that all of us want what's best for the game; driving others away, we can agree, is not best for the game.
- oldman
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Mister Fork on May 16, 2017, 02:12:02 PM
We're all big fans of this game, and, like big fans of any game, sometimes our emotions get the best of us. Or we hit the "send" button without bothering to go back over what we wrote. Remember that all of us want what's best for the game; driving others away, we can agree, is not best for the game.
- oldman
Amen brother.
We need to keep a positive focus on what we want out of the game - providing suggestions and ideas so that they can make the game better, not blow up at one another because opinions vary.
You can see some of that attitude by posting an original idea in the Wishlist that differs greatly from the norm. Flame pants required. :D
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Arlo on May 16, 2017, 03:11:43 PM
Many drive back, however, once they see what all's out there.
(Never let someone else do the driving.)
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: JimmyC on May 16, 2017, 03:13:13 PM
Was this a Prolapse .....??
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Arlo on May 16, 2017, 03:15:24 PM
I saw what you did there (in so many ways). :aok
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: save on May 16, 2017, 06:15:59 PM
Unlike you I spent a good portion of my life in GV's, I also flew during 2 decades in small single-engined aircraft.
I know what a GV can do and not without getting shot and how to stay unseen.
The day HTC implement shooting from a gunner sight I will do GV. Shooting from a 360 deg weapon platform you can do things you simply can't do successfully in a real tank - its not my idea of GV'ing, it's like flying in F3 mode.
Smoke, throwing up dirt, and a bright flash when you shoot with a main gun is a fact of life, not something I made up. Often when we shot, we did not know if we hit the target we shot at with a high velocity gun.
The Firefly was called just that because of its big flash when you shot with it.
You changed position after max 2 shots in an ambush, when other tanks could shoot back at you.
Haze and other weather protected GV's from planes, something I would like to have here.
Capture is done by GV's only in AH3, why not have some bases taken by planes ?
Some of the plane effectiveness I want to remove as well, like radar killing with guns, and the famous Lanc-Stuka, anti vehicle killer, another is : shooting with 20mms and .50 caliber will not stop a medium tank, you are lucky to get it track'ed on one side so crew have to expose themselves repairing it for a brief period.
Buzzaw map is probably the most hated map in AH in it's current state.
<snip> Changes I would like to implement : small airbases - GV spawns should not go to all airfields. This game-mechanics force some bases to be taken from air - or a looong ride in a GV.
When you shoot with a GV or 88mm/17pounder, smoke that can be clearly seen for 2-3 seconds from 3k, forcing real GV tactics - shoot and scoot.
Radar should not go down when you strafe with aircraft 20mm/mg -4 rocket hits or a bomb should do it, or a load of 30mm+.
The C47 shuld take 2-3X number of grunts of a little GV troop carrier, make it harder for GV'er to use one stealth-GV to take a whole base.
Only divebombers/jabo should be able to dive bomb, Bombers should use the bomb-sight (no F3 bombing).
man that's some hellofa eyesight there to see gv barrel smoke from 3k Save you don't GV so why do you care? what gv's do
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Max on May 16, 2017, 06:29:18 PM
So....where are the new commercials?
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: nugetx on May 17, 2017, 02:25:20 AM
Add game on to Steam
and not commercials....... this is not 1990 anymore.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: BowHTR on May 17, 2017, 05:41:34 AM
Things are sometimes said out of frustration and anger. One cannot mentalize or maintain an overview in this state. Let's not gather the pitchforks and torches just yet.
He's right anyway. I am infact an idiot at least 9 times a day, and I have four degrees :rofl
You must be walking dead. I have 98.6 degrees. :cheers:
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Dundee on May 18, 2017, 07:04:53 PM
Harden ammo bunkers, forcing GV attackers to have air support to protect them from jabos and the jabos to have fighter support, etc., etc. Suicide 190s killing ammo and radar are getting old.
M4 rocket tanks should generate a lot of smoke that can be seen from a long distance.
GV icon range should be the same for enemy and friendly -- just like aircraft. If a wirb is invisible to me, it should be invisible to his team as well.
YMMV
Also dump the GV Icons on the map....
Another thing is if the radar is out........the base shouldn't flash at all or only when the aircraft is with in icon range of the base and they can see it's an enemy aircraft
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Hajo on May 18, 2017, 09:40:43 PM
Just to explain a few things about this topic and how society itself has changed the game. First, I left the game two months ago and I don't intend to return. I'm in the process of giving my equipment for the game away. It unfortunately has taken to long to do so due to things happening in real life. Anyway maps etc. being given for reasons for lower numbers.
1) For many years we who participated in Air Warrior flew day, after day, after day over the same map. We kept on coming back to the game every day. The map could have been a white sheet of paper and it wouldn't have mattered. We came to play and fight. It was a miracle that AW went to 3D. It was great.
2) There was more community participation back then as well as great numbers. The Kraits designed a way for you to select the sky in which you wanted to fight. They also made overlays that could change the look of the terrain. The same old map would be used but we had the choice to fly over, Hedgerows in winter, the desert or even the surface of the moon. Also an overlay was made to use to color the bases important targets. Buildings would be highlighted in various ways and colors to make them standout an more identifiable. These things were created by the community. But that did make it enjoyable and after awhile even those changes would become something that we'd see very day. We still came to play in great numbers.
3) We do have community participation in the same areas now in AH. Skins, Maps etc. are being created by members of the community.
4) We also had special events in AW like AH does now. However we had many more people participate in them in Air Warrior and we did so also in Aces High when they were first introduced here. However the players who register for scenarios now are fewer in number. More then a 50% drop. Now getting 80 to register for a scenario is difficult to say the least making it harder to design a successful scenario. Some of us held on to only participate in scenarios. The numbers that register at this time for them have fallen to the point more many of us just gave up and went away.
5) When those of us from AW came to AH initially it was about air combat. Those members that were here before us had no idea what to expect when AW closed. What did happen however was that it stayed basically the same. Aerial Combat was the key. It kept us coming back for over 20 years. I feel the use of GV's has little if any impact on the game.
6) So..we ask ourselves "what has changed?" Basically the answer is society. It is proper for everyone to play the game as they wish. No one should tell someone else how they should play the game. We live in a different time then we did as little as 15 years ago. More technology, small computers in our hands to access everything instantaneously, we expect results NOW! Those of us that are a bit older did quite fine without the new technologies. We didn't have it so we did not miss it. We still have patience and the younger crowd has less. Not their fault that's just how it is.
Most of us back in the day were heavily interested about the Air War during WWII. Hell, we were born shortly after WWII, our fathers fought in that war and many movies produced by Hollywood such as Twelve O'clock High, Flying Leathernecks etc. We grew up watching them along with our parents who just finished fighting that war. Those Movies were very popular. As we have moved in time from that era to now only a few have an interest such as we do about what happened during that war. Not anyone's' fault. This is a history that has repeated itself since day one. Time heals all wounds I guess we could say. So maybe in an indirect way we have 3 different generations participating in the same game. Each generation no doubt has a different point of view on how and why they play the game. My point? Methinks that we have to find a way to merge the 3 generations thinking into a similar point of view about the game. It doesn't have to be strictly this way or else. It just to have a community that is open to others thoughts and ideas on how the game should be played as it is. Not complaning about resupplying, running to ack, making this strat harder etc. The game is fine. To succeed the generations have to tolerate one another and their ideas. The Community is responsible for game play. Everyone has the same tools to play the same game. Not one point of view is right and NO point of view is wrong. Seems to me the community has some decisions to make. Don't blame it on the game, you will just keep failing.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: hgtonyvi on May 18, 2017, 10:18:07 PM
Numbers are down because of the Buzzsaw map....Get rid of that thing
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: nrshida on May 19, 2017, 03:24:56 AM
However the players who register for scenarios now are fewer in number. More then a 50% drop. Now getting 80 to register for a scenario is difficult to say the least making it harder to design a successful scenario. Some of us held on to only participate in scenarios. The numbers that register at this time for them have fallen to the point more many of us just gave up and went away.
Scenario participation basically scaled with overall player numbers. Those sank, and so did scenario numbers. In fact, the relative participation (average pilots in a frame / total # of MA pilots in that month) had risen slightly even.
For example, the last scenario (Hell over the hinterland) may have struggled to get 80 pilots playing per frame. But the Relative Participation was at about 4.9%, which would have been a very good turnout during the peak days of AH (the original DGS scenario had about 4.9% RP as well)
:old:
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: save on May 19, 2017, 05:23:07 AM
One problem, Hajo, is also that the game-play have changed dramatically, specially on one map, where planes are far between.
You fly to a field deserted from plane's, 'welcomed' by least 2 wirbies - he will get you if he don't reveal his position and you fly low enough, his icon will be seen when you are sitting in your chute.
Capture used to be done in C47's. They needed some screen protection from fighters, now one guy in a GV can run into a de-ack'ed white flagged town and get it himself if terrain is dense enough
Often the town have been destroyed by rocket-launchers or from GV's in the town, not from bombers / jabo.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: thndregg on May 19, 2017, 06:24:55 AM
6) So..we ask ourselves "what has changed?" Basically the answer is society. It is proper for everyone to play the game as they wish. No one should tell someone else how they should play the game. We live in a different time then we did as little as 15 years ago. More technology, small computers in our hands to access everything instantaneously, we expect results NOW! Those of us that are a bit older did quite fine without the new technologies. We didn't have it so we did not miss it. We still have patience and the younger crowd has less. Not their fault that's just how it is.
:aok This was the draw for me back in '04 when I subscribed. There were plenty of more mature, more tolerant folks to enjoy the various facets of this game with that required more patience. Loved it immensely. Learned a lot. Win or lose, we still had fun at it.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Mister Fork on May 19, 2017, 09:04:55 AM
If our numbers are down, should we just have smaller maps that make it easier to find fights and easier to win wars just like in AH1?
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on May 19, 2017, 09:34:18 AM
Not for me. Small maps usually have a train of fighters attacking one base and that's not my reason for playing Aces High. I play for the dogfights, not the furballs. If that makes sense, slashing at mach2 thru lower cons doing gunery practice and racking up kills is borring.
Incidentally, I dont enjoy the preset start of the DA either. I lile that 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 meet in the air with random starting condition. I understand others are diffenrent. :cheers:
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: AAIK on May 19, 2017, 10:07:28 AM
See rule #4
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: AAIK on May 19, 2017, 12:22:21 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: AAIK on May 19, 2017, 02:04:27 PM
What do you want me to say? I can't extrapolate the issues behind the player numbers and I can't give any positive words.
I am feeling a little abused here, its not nice being ganged upon.
Player numbers is a big issue because the number of players effects the enjoyment of the game for everyone. - Logistics is used more when fields are downed more often. - More bombers in the air, leading to more interesting encounters. - Furballers are satisfied with the level of intensity. - 1v1s happen more often with more players, so those type of players are satisfied.
How am I supposed to add something constructive to this topic if I can't hold any kind of stance on it?
I am sure there are steps that can be taken to improve player number.
I am afraid of saying anything.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: guncrasher on May 19, 2017, 02:11:04 PM
you guys ever think that the numbers are down because you keep complaining that the numbers are down? if you would only stay off the bb and play the game I am pretty sure the numbers would be up.
semp
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: bustr on May 19, 2017, 02:43:05 PM
you guys ever think that the numbers are down because you keep complaining that the numbers are down? if you would only stay off the bb and play the game I am pretty sure the numbers would be up.
semp
Instant gratification has a brother called angry unhappy complainer.
If you have a venue for instant communication directly to the management of an entertainment company, people eventually use it to instantly vent any and all perceived affronts to their gratification. It's addictive to have the ability to tell off the sumo botcha who "you know" personally holds your happiness in his hands. And if he won't give you what you want, it's addictive to trash his living room as your consolation prize as long as you don't get Skuzzynated. Mix a whole room full of those and it becomes a daily cathartic battle royal with a life of it's own. The only common thread, personal perception of the game past, current and future feeds the daily frenzy which is always a downward spiral. With a stark periodic exception.
How do you prove this, any event, a new ride release, a new terrain, a large scale positive announcement by Hitech. And for several hours or even a few days, everyone is positive and nice including telling cranks to chill while the majority is enjoying the positive experience.
Positive and negative emotions are both reward mechanisms for the brain. Negativity is easier to generate and just as rewarding as positivity. Negativity is addictive because of that. New customers are looking for positivity to justify their risk of becoming involved in the AH3 experience. They are not yet addicted to the negative under current that prevails in the forums. It's proponents will defensively put lipstick on that pig and call it friendly competition. It's still a negative experience for the uninitiated looking for a new game.
These forums have been like this since I can remember.... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Zener on May 19, 2017, 04:37:51 PM
:aok ... plenty of more mature, more tolerant folks to enjoy the various facets of this game with that required more patience. Loved it immensely. Learned a lot. Win or lose, we still had fun at it.
We certainly did! Glad to see you still around, Egg. Flew with you in the BOPs then again when you started up the 91st (I was Cable back in the day). Those missions were a blast, even when the only thing left of us in the air was small shards of falling metal that used to be a B-24. I know I learned a lot about various things in the game from the radio chatter on those missions I would never have tried out on my own. Fun and educational too.
Well, I can't speak to the numbers, but count me back in the game again as Zener this time though I've forgotten how much I used to know. Lots of things about the game are "different" even though the mechanics are essentially the same.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: thndregg on May 19, 2017, 05:32:47 PM
We certainly did! Glad to see you still around, Egg.
Thanks, my friend. My time in the game has been minuscule for the past year or so. Real life difficulties have finally settled down to a predictable level, so now, maybe I can have a little fun. Once my stick shows up, I'll be in.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Shuffler on May 19, 2017, 06:53:33 PM
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: ALF on May 20, 2017, 01:20:46 PM
I thinks its amazing that AH is still going; Proof that it met a need that so many other games missed. A sim that did't require me spend 50+ hours just to learn how to start the plane, but rewarded learning energy management and ACM. I hope its still here 15 years from now. How many multiplayer games from 15 years ago can you name that still exist... I will always remember the countless hours of enjoyment AH provided me, and hope HTC finds a way to keep making $$$ and keeps the dream alive.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: JimmyD3 on May 20, 2017, 08:13:32 PM
I thinks its amazing that AH is still going; Proof that it met a need that so many other games missed. A sim that did't require me spend 50+ hours just to learn how to start the plane, but rewarded learning energy management and ACM. I hope its still here 15 years from now. How many multiplayer games from 15 years ago can you name that still exist... I will always remember the countless hours of enjoyment AH provided me, and hope HTC finds a way to keep making $$$ and keeps the dream alive.
+1 :rock
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Dundee on May 21, 2017, 04:15:08 PM
Numbers are down because of the Buzzsaw map....Get rid of that thing
Numbers are down because of the game play.... and how things have changed on the ground
GV's were really impacted with the introduction of AHIII 1. With the amount of trees... the roads or clear cuts were taken out of the game. I like to point out there were plenty of roads for tanks and other vehicles to use during WWII why are they missing in the game? 2. The hills that you were able to climb on the old maps in AH II are all but impossible to climb in AHIII, 3. The tank icons on the map which are a _ _ _ _ _ _ dream, and has compromised long range missions in the past, plus the GV Icon is bigger than the single engine aircraft icon. 1 tank sitting in town covers the town up all together, so when your trying to resup a town, or line up a bombing run 1 or two tanks make it all but impossible to find the town. A lot of talk about finding a fight, it sucks when you cant find the town because of overly large tank icons. The whole "Map Icon System" should be trashed, the dots we had in AHII, was a better system, showed an aircraft but not the type. Restricting one element in the game, so another segment is not interrupted, is like stealing from Peter to make sure Paul is happy. If AHIII is just all about the Fur Ball then I think a lot of us are paying for the wrong game, AHII had the right balance,AHIII doesn't have that balance like II had
We'll give it a couple more months to see if things change, if they don't I'm packing it in and moving on to other online games I'm spending time in right now.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Lusche on May 21, 2017, 04:21:55 PM
I thinks its amazing that AH is still going; Proof that it met a need that so many other games missed. A sim that did't require me spend 50+ hours just to learn how to start the plane, but rewarded learning energy management and ACM. I hope its still here 15 years from now. How many multiplayer games from 15 years ago can you name that still exist... I will always remember the countless hours of enjoyment AH provided me, and hope HTC finds a way to keep making $$$ and keeps the dream alive.
This...this says it all. The game is still the best sim IMHO. I haven't seen a commercial in several years, the commercials are what brought me to the game. The name isn't out there like WoT and the 92809234 other games related to it. The commercials would help to bring numbers back, mention FSO, Wed night SS, and player organized events, as well as the main arenas. Tell us how much a commercial runs $$ and i guarantee there would be some players who would donate more than their $15/mo to help out if the $ is the issue. Ive been here since 2002 this community is family even the dirty litttle piggies <3 I love all of you lets keep positive and help any new people so they stay and join the family, retention of players will help in gaining new players
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Dundee on May 21, 2017, 04:56:46 PM
Numbers haven't dropped suddenly, and not just after AH III went live.
Your right.......most have played AH III and are not pleased with they way it turned out. Oh and lets not forget they had to turn off AHII to get the numbers over to III. I'm sure if they turned on II there would be and equal number of players in II
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 21, 2017, 05:23:32 PM
Your right.......most have played AH III and are not pleased with they way it turned out.
You don't understand... numbers have been dropping for years and AH III didn't made it any worse.
Maybe it would also help numbers a little bit if you would be more reluctant with cheat allegation PMs when your LVT off the field gets killed ;)
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: JVboob on May 21, 2017, 08:24:50 PM
Numbers have been falling for years. Ive noticed some flight characteristics have changed but thats about all i have to complain about AHIII oh and the derned tank icons being so big!!
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Arlo on May 21, 2017, 09:30:12 PM
According to this random chart there's really nothing to worry about:
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: thndregg on May 21, 2017, 09:51:02 PM
Well.. I've dabbled in this AH3 thing for a little bit now after being gone so long, and just through casual non-statistical observation, it is a very noticeable change from the days when we would throw some 91st mayhem together, or post a general buff mission and folks would organize both escort and opposition. Those were the days, and it was massive, very massive, white-knuckle fun for all sides.
I'll eventually get used to the new feel of the current smaller player base. Some old names from back in the day are still around, which is reassuring. Maybe we'll make a comeback. ;)
<S> all..
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: cav58d on May 21, 2017, 10:59:12 PM
JVBoob - I'm with you on advertising, but no way in hell am I going to donate money beyond my monthly subscription to front the bill for advertising. No, just no.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on May 22, 2017, 01:10:03 AM
JVBoob - I'm with you on advertising, but no way in hell am I going to donate money beyond my monthly subscription to front the bill for advertising. No, just no.
:headscratch:
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Vraciu on May 22, 2017, 02:29:42 PM
Numbers are down because of the game play.... and how things have changed on the ground
GV's were really impacted with the introduction of AHIII 1. With the amount of trees... the roads or clear cuts were taken out of the game. I like to point out there were plenty of roads for tanks and other vehicles to use during WWII why are they missing in the game? 2. The hills that you were able to climb on the old maps in AH II are all but impossible to climb in AHIII, 3. The tank icons on the map which are a _ _ _ _ _ _ dream, and has compromised long range missions in the past, plus the GV Icon is bigger than the single engine aircraft icon. 1 tank sitting in town covers the town up all together, so when your trying to resup a town, or line up a bombing run 1 or two tanks make it all but impossible to find the town. A lot of talk about finding a fight, it sucks when you cant find the town because of overly large tank icons. The whole "Map Icon System" should be trashed, the dots we had in AHII, was a better system, showed an aircraft but not the type. Restricting one element in the game, so another segment is not interrupted, is like stealing from Peter to make sure Paul is happy. If AHIII is just all about the Fur Ball then I think a lot of us are paying for the wrong game, AHII had the right balance,AHIII doesn't have that balance like II had
We'll give it a couple more months to see if things change, if they don't I'm packing it in and moving on to other online games I'm spending time in right now.
Which doesn't explain the aerial combat situation...
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Vraciu on May 22, 2017, 02:31:29 PM
I am very pleased with the way AH III turned out. And I'll bet there are many others who are also. :banana:
Overall, I am pleased with III. I am still adjusting to some things but it is a definite improvement.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: JVboob on May 22, 2017, 02:58:34 PM
If money isnt the issue, or HTC just wont do it then I throw any $ away. If the reason they cant air a commercial is due to lack of funding Id donate some cash if there were some sort of advertising.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Vraciu on May 22, 2017, 03:05:08 PM
If money isnt the issue, or HTC just wont do it then I throw any $ away. If the reason they cant air a commercial is due to lack of funding Id donate some cash if there were some sort of advertising.
Yeah, I mean, why not?
HTC said some ads would be rolling out soon though, I believe.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: JimmyC on May 22, 2017, 03:25:53 PM
Wow...did he say that...thats what I need to hear. This is soo required.. Oceania time zone is so dead.any spill off from late euro early Merlin the better.. The whole game has changed drastically because of the low numbers..more people in the better...sooner the better. Can you elaborate on what was said?
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: JVboob on May 22, 2017, 03:34:49 PM
Wow...did he say that...thats what I need to hear. This is soo required.. Oceania time zone is so dead.any spill off from late euro early Merlin the better.. The whole game has changed drastically because of the low numbers..more people in the better...sooner the better. Can you elaborate on what was said?
Which doesn't explain the aerial combat situation...
Well the GV's are just a pain in the you know what....they take away from the Fur Ball so they had to introduce things to make it more difficult for GV's to impact the game. Way too many trees for you to get tangled up in. Hills that you were able to climb in AH II but not in AH III becasue we can't have GV's running amuck all over the map interrupting the FUr Ball .... GV's at your Strats.....got to leave the Fur Ball to deal with that... GV's in your town....can't Fur Ball got to deal with these cockroaches with treads... Oh and now the tank rounds are limited as to how far you can see the rounds in flight.... Just another fly in the ointment to hamper the GV's. Look what happened to the Night time, which was cool, in the game it went from 20 minutes to about a Minute and a half.......because folks were afraid to dogfight in the dark.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Vraciu on May 27, 2017, 03:54:45 AM
Well the GV's are just a pain in the you know what....they take away from the Fur Ball so they had to introduce things to make it more difficult for GV's to impact the game. Way too many trees for you to get tangled up in. Hills that you were able to climb in AH II but not in AH III becasue we can't have GV's running amuck all over the map interrupting the FUr Ball .... GV's at your Strats.....got to leave the Fur Ball to deal with that... GV's in your town....can't Fur Ball got to deal with these cockroaches with treads... Oh and now the tank rounds are limited as to how far you can see the rounds in flight.... Just another fly in the ointment to hamper the GV's. Look what happened to the Night time, which was cool, in the game it went from 20 minutes to about a Minute and a half.......because folks were afraid to dogfight in the dark.
But again.............the things that hurt GVs........................as valid as they are....................aren't the same as what's killed the air war. Related in a way but not directly correlated if you refer to my original question based on your observation. <S>
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: madrid311 on May 27, 2017, 10:39:01 AM
wow mr fork, this seems to solve a lot of problems and is really a great example of using common sense.
Smaller squares say 20 miles, or 15-17 mile apart bases on a 6x6 land area map (about the size of Midanoa map) would go a long way in bringing back action and have a little more quick game play, would go a very long way in bringing back some excitement and large fights on all sides of the map.
Sometimes common sense and ain't so common.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Dundee on May 28, 2017, 01:30:21 AM
Smaller squares say 20 miles, or 15-17 mile apart bases on a 6x6 land area map (about the size of Midanoa map) would go a long way in bringing back action and have a little more quick game play, would go a very long way in bringing back some excitement and large fights on all sides of the map.
Sometimes common sense and ain't so common.
The Midanoa map is not a GV map one bit the hills are too steep to go anywhere with a GV.....It might take you a day to go 3 sectors
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Dundee on May 28, 2017, 01:35:05 AM
Overall, I am pleased with III. I am still adjusting to some things but it is a definite improvement.
Well for you Sky Jocks is all good........... and your happy
I'll see how it pans out by the end of the summer.........If things don't change...Asta la Bye bye. I think now a days I'm in War Gaming.Net more than I am here anyway.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 28, 2017, 10:05:42 AM
Well for you Sky Jocks is all good........... and your happy
I'll see how it pans out by the end of the summer.........If things don't change...Asta la Bye bye. I think now a days I'm in War Gaming.Net more than I am here anyway.
I do think the GV guys got a bit shafted in the switch to AH3. I was slowly getting into GVs toward the end of AH2. Took some lesson time with Whiskey, practiced range site pictures. Trying to just get going in them. Was starting to make a bit of progress and was having fun in a new aspect of the game and then AH3 came out.
Trees!!! Those big beautiful new tree sets look great! The swaying in the breeze is beautiful but boy do they kill game play! Yes they are a bit sticky, but the coad will knock you back out if you are patient. If you are being hunted, your screwed. The movement help hide other tanks as long as they move slow. The swaying gives enough "motion" that a moving tank isnt something that jumps out at you. Last, there are just too many of them! There are so few lines of fire that when you do come across one it is just like another spawn camp.
I wish they would cut back the trees 20-30%.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: thndregg on May 29, 2017, 08:00:32 AM
Hope things turn around. Sad to see the dwindling numbers as I've logged in at various times. Still getting used to the updated aspects of the game. Sure do miss the high populous heyday of AH2, and the old hands that I flew with and against. :frown: :cry (Lusche, you come to mind shredding the crap out of my 17's ;) )
Would love to revive the massive bombardment missions that were a focus of intense combat fun.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Lusche on May 30, 2017, 07:41:51 AM
Hope things turn around. Sad to see the dwindling numbers as I've logged in at various times. Still getting used to the updated aspects of the game. Sure do miss the high populous heyday of AH2, and the old hands that I flew with and against. :frown: :cry (Lusche, you come to mind shredding the crap out of my 17's ;) )
Would love to revive the massive bombardment missions that were a focus of intense combat fun.
When high altitude bombing raids even had escorts... that's where the fun really started
:airplane: Buffs, lots of buffs... yummy :banana:... mmm they keep very tight formation, gonna really have to keep focus here :joystick:... wait, what's that small dots above... oh crap, Jugs!!!!! :eek: :uhoh :bolt:
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: oboe on May 30, 2017, 07:56:26 AM
"Big Week" scenario begins this week. Sounds like it could be exactly what you're looking for...
"Big Week" scenario begins this week. Sounds like it could be exactly what you're looking for...
Scenario means you have to lead or follow orders. That's why I stopped flying them years ago. I'm too weird for for either :banana:
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: oboe on May 30, 2017, 08:59:46 AM
If you made that decision years ago, maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing to revisit it to make sure its still the right choice for you?
Sounds to me like the scenario is offering exactly what you think is fun in AH. You don't have to lead, just be cooperative and dependable (show up on time and fly with the group). Doesn't most everything in life involve some kind of trade-off, after all?
Being a Walk On is easy, and everybody would love to have you join us. Think about it!
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Mister Fork on May 30, 2017, 09:18:40 AM
The challenge and benefits of the scenario's:
a) they're always on weekends b) they're usually in the afternoon c) you're stuck in a particular ride, sometimes just to fill a seat d) you have a WHOLE lotta fun regardless :aok
The challenge and benefits of the AvA:
a) the arena is based on a time-period with historical specific aircraft (similar to all special events) b) it runs 24x7 for an entire week c) it's a whole lotta fun when there are players in there d) we don't have enough regular players to help fill the arena e) AAA lethality is at .25, not 2.0 (which makes raiding a base a whole lotta fun) :x
The way I see it, the AvA is great scenario practice arena or for those who like the historical match-up's and are tired of the MA gameplay. We would sometimes load a scenario setup in the AvA a week prior to the event for all to practice. It's just too bad we don't have a large enough player base to fill it the way we used too... :(
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Lusche on May 30, 2017, 10:13:47 AM
If you made that decision years ago, maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing to revisit it to make sure its still the right choice for you?
There's no cure for A.D.D.
Flying 'in uniform' is still boring as hell to me. As are not being able to follow my own plans or to be AFK almost all of the time unless I'm actually about to shoot at someone. Too bad the AH film viewer doesn't show when AH get's minimized. I think you would be surprised when viewing some of my films :D
Don't get me wrong, I know about the fun of scenarios. I have always recommended scenarios to every new player I came across.
EDIT: I forgot something: I also won't pay 15$ just to play a scenario ;)
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: DubiousKB on May 30, 2017, 10:36:41 AM
Pickup Missions are the best introduction for new players (speaking as a newer player still)... For the reasons Fork posted.
It was an easy way to feel "part of something bigger" without any real investment. Post it and they will come... I too suffer AFK syndrome if you ask any squadmates.. :D
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: JimmyD3 on May 30, 2017, 11:51:52 AM
Pickup Missions are the best introduction for new players (speaking as a newer player still)... For the reasons Fork posted.
It was an easy way to feel "part of something bigger" without any real investment. Post it and they will come... I too suffer AFK syndrome if you ask any squadmates.. :D
I can't tell you the last time I saw a mission posted in AH3. :bhead
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: thndregg on May 30, 2017, 02:19:36 PM
Well, Lusche.. After much consideration, I am working on reviving the 91st. ;) I have one other "old hand" of whom I have designated my X.O.. We're slowly getting back into this thing. Looking forward to bringing the fun fights back. I've put up a couple missions so far since returning.
I have no doubt you'll find me/us and send my bombers plummeting.. :aok :D
Fun stuff!
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Lusche on May 30, 2017, 02:22:40 PM
I can't tell you the last time I saw a mission posted in AH3. :bhead
I use the pickup missions weekly in the melee and FSO for my group. I used several last night. I will say the mission system is pretty buggy compared to previous versions and it does not seem to be a priority fix.
The aerial fight in the melee is all Spixteen, P-47 Silly Edition, Yak and blow jobs. Even then they mostly hide in the AAA or jump in Wirbles when the going gets mildly abrasive.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 31, 2017, 12:25:10 PM
I use the pickup missions weekly in the melee and FSO for my group. I used several last night. I will say the mission system is pretty buggy compared to previous versions and it does not seem to be a priority fix.
The aerial fight in the melee is all Spixteen, P-47 Silly Edition, Yak and blow jobs. Even then they mostly hide in the AAA or jump in Wirbles when the going gets mildly abrasive.
yeah, I really wish more of the late war fighters were perked. Running into 190Ds, yak3s, La7s, Spit16s, K4s (even though most cant aim), and a few others, would make it so most of the community would pick planes that wouldn't be able to run away so easily. It would lower the fight alts, get people to spend more perks, and keep the easy rides to a minimum. I think it might go a ways in making the fights more entertaining.
Just a thought.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: popeye on May 31, 2017, 12:47:27 PM
yeah, I really wish more of the late war fighters were perked. Running into 190Ds, yak3s, La7s, Spit16s, K4s (even though most cant aim), and a few others, would make it so most of the community would pick planes that wouldn't be able to run away so easily.
I'm guessing most of the community has enough perks to buy all the late war rides they want.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: nugetx on June 01, 2017, 11:55:09 AM
yeah, I really wish more of the late war fighters were perked. Running into 190Ds, yak3s, La7s, Spit16s, K4s (even though most cant aim), and a few others, would make it so most of the community would pick planes that wouldn't be able to run away so easily.
I'm guessing most of the community has enough perks to buy all the late war rides they want.
(http://i.imgur.com/SFQvWJ6.jpg)
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: flyndung on June 03, 2017, 02:11:40 PM
most of the people playing these days have 5-10 years worth of perk points stored up
.....and that is why this type of RPS wont work. The sharks with all the perks will eat the newbs alive in their early war birds. Sure we will have some diversity in planes in the game, but at the cost of trying to retain new players.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Rich46yo on June 03, 2017, 09:58:31 PM
Its kind of unusual to see perk planes nowadays. The occasional 262, which os more of a hindrance then a real threat. More of the Tempest, which is actually a real threat. The C-Hog maybe. Of the others I cant remember the last time I saw them.
New players get their pick of 5 eny planes. Most will go right to the P-51D as always. What they dont have is the skill of the 5 to 10 year players. Theres no quick way to accrue that. Even in 5 eny planes most noobs will get whacked by experienced players in 20 to 30 eny airplanes.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: lunatic1 on June 04, 2017, 08:33:24 AM
the very 1st day I played, when I joined this great game- I was a noob big time even had numbers for a call sign, until 2BAD said I could and should change it. the 1st plane I flew in was the P51-D. because it was my favorite plane of all time, I built models of them, you know the plastic one you assemble and paint- actually I only built 3 type of planes, pony D--corsair and the F4 Phantom 2, my favorite jet. back then as a noob, I didn't get picked on, like a new player will now, but by the same token I think a lot of new players will have been playing other flying games and won't get picked on too badly. at least I hope not.
and again -1000 to the rps.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: DaveJ on June 04, 2017, 11:11:58 AM
Well, Lusche.. After much consideration, I am working on reviving the 91st. ;) I have one other "old hand" of whom I have designated my X.O.. We're slowly getting back into this thing. Looking forward to bringing the fun fights back. I've put up a couple missions so far since returning.
I have no doubt you'll find me/us and send my bombers plummeting.. :aok :D
Fun stuff!
Just came back too after a year + absence. This would be glorious. So many great memories of 91st/ThndrEGG missions from AH2 and AH1 days. High buff raids, NOE 110s. Such a blast.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: The Fugitive on June 04, 2017, 12:53:57 PM
Personally I'd like to see more rewards for "combat" type play.
We already have a perk modifier for when a spit 1 kills a F4u-4 as apposed to another spit, bump it up! Add in achievement points as well, maybe a new kill message "announcing" the missmatched kill.
The same for participating in missions.
The same for the defenders, defending a base for 15 minutes while and equal number or greater number of attackers are in the dar circle. Put a dar circle around the strats and do the same there.
Promote combat with perks/achievement points/name in lights.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Rich46yo on June 04, 2017, 03:18:02 PM
Just came back too after a year + absence. This would be glorious. So many great memories of 91st/ThndrEGG missions from AH2 and AH1 days. High buff raids, NOE 110s. Such a blast.
The 91'st was a great squad. Lots of very first class guys. I wish there was some way to resurrect the 484'th HBG or the Blind Bats, both were great to belong to.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: thndregg on June 04, 2017, 04:17:57 PM
Quote
Just came back too after a year + absence. This would be glorious. So many great memories of 91st/ThndrEGG missions from AH2 and AH1 days. High buff raids, NOE 110s. Such a blast.
Quote
The 91'st was a great squad. Lots of very first class guys. I wish there was some way to resurrect the 484'th HBG or the Blind Bats, both were great to belong to.
Thanks, both of you. <S>
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: flyndung on June 05, 2017, 10:10:05 PM
Its kind of unusual to see perk planes nowadays. The occasional 262, which os more of a hindrance then a real threat. More of the Tempest, which is actually a real threat. The C-Hog maybe. Of the others I cant remember the last time I saw them.
New players get their pick of 5 eny planes. Most will go right to the P-51D as always. What they dont have is the skill of the 5 to 10 year players. Theres no quick way to accrue that. Even in 5 eny planes most noobs will get whacked by experienced players in 20 to 30 eny airplanes.
this is also what ENVY doesn't account for, ENVY doesn't know the skill level of the people it just applies the numbers as it see's it
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Dundee on June 11, 2017, 08:46:23 PM
Well two to take the two we lost last week........our numbers are in the toilet
Meh... I'm not losing hope just yet. I just picked up two old friends in my group, and now 91st is up to three. We went on a long run last night, and still got the **** kicked out of us at 25K (thanks, Rooks.. and thanks Bish who came up to help bring us home :D ) But, still that was a LOT of fun..
Things like this need to be promoted and advertised by us, the players by all the ordinary means available to us- especially social media, which wasn't quite so big when I first subscribed in '04.. the various talents that are still in the game who take great screenies, who write up some cool AAR's, who make great films, who foster a fun positive environment. It can come back.. :aok
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: bustr on June 12, 2017, 12:19:27 PM
Anyone ever notice during the month the three Friday nights FSO runs, about two hours before that, the melee arena fills up in relative terms to today's numbers, and everyone plays like it was a decade ago? What keeps those same people from showing up the rest of the week? Or has AH always been a core population that stays constant almost every night with a similar or slightly larger number of floaters that pass through for a few sorties every night?
Steam may well increase the numbers in those two groups if Hitech chooses to go with Steam. Our constant is about 100 with maybe 50-75 floaters, and the three times a month FSO crowd which can make Friday nights in the Melee arena up to 250 for about an hour. 250 is the minimum arena population to get several large furballs or base capture initiatives going at the same time, so a player in one country can bounce back and forth between them to switch up the action and not get bored with rinse and repeat. Today you get stuck with furball or base capture depending on which the core group is doing that night. Or even a lack of doing anything while the other two countries do something.
So once we may have had a core nightly population of about 200 players who were augmented by about 250-300 floaters who passed through staying for varying amounts of time. The floaters were probably more like 1000-1500 who played with a subscribed account 3-6 months and moved on being replaced 1:1 by new players doing the same thing, and not all 1000-1500 passed through the arena during any given week. There was always those who could only play a few times a week during prime time or on weekends.
The Melee arena itself is not broken, it's as much fun as it has been for the last 15 years I've been here when enough players show up at the same place and fight each other. When we had more players you didn't have to work as hard to land kills or just survive because of the size and wide spread skill levels of the groups fighting. With a small core group like today where everyone knows each other and each others abilities. Sometimes it's just a lot of flying and looking versus fighting.
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: DubiousKB on June 13, 2017, 08:29:08 AM
Anyone ever notice during the month the three Friday nights FSO runs, about two hours before that, the melee arena fills up in relative terms to today's numbers, and everyone plays like it was a decade ago? What keeps those same people from showing up the rest of the week? Or has AH always been a core population that stays constant almost every night with a similar or slightly larger number of floaters that pass through for a few sorties every night?
Steam may well increase the numbers in those two groups if Hitech chooses to go with Steam. Our constant is about 100 with maybe 50-75 floaters, and the three times a month FSO crowd which can make Friday nights in the Melee arena up to 250 for about an hour. 250 is the minimum arena population to get several large furballs or base capture initiatives going at the same time, so a player in one country can bounce back and forth between them to switch up the action and not get bored with rinse and repeat. Today you get stuck with furball or base capture depending on which the core group is doing that night. Or even a lack of doing anything while the other two countries do something.
So once we may have had a core nightly population of about 200 players who were augmented by about 250-300 floaters who passed through staying for varying amounts of time. The floaters were probably more like 1000-1500 who played with a subscribed account 3-6 months and moved on being replaced 1:1 by new players doing the same thing, and not all 1000-1500 passed through the arena during any given week. There was always those who could only play a few times a week during prime time or on weekends.
The Melee arena itself is not broken, it's as much fun as it has been for the last 15 years I've been here when enough players show up at the same place and fight each other. When we had more players you didn't have to work as hard to land kills or just survive because of the size and wide spread skill levels of the groups fighting. With a small core group like today where everyone knows each other and each others abilities. Sometimes it's just a lot of flying and looking versus fighting.
It is what you make it eh? Good points... This *newer* player also noticed the great action leading up to FSO.. Sorta hit and miss during other times though. Last Sunday or so was a great 250+ player night also... More players doesn't always equate to better quality play, but it certainly makes things interesting with lots of "action".
Seems the classic "regulars" are just missing the additional "options", that came about with sheer numbers. This game is at it's finest the moment you get "caught" by the guy you didn't even see coming. Makes for white knuckled, sweaty palms type of action, which hooked this wannabe pilot.
I think steam will help with the biggest challenge facing this game, exposure. Joe-consumer doesn't know what he's missing!
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Nightshift82 on June 14, 2017, 06:36:40 PM
I was coming back to AH last week. I was somewhat active a few years ago and I thought I'd give it a try agian.
Everything seems to be fine, but the number of players seems to have seriously dropped, right? I can remember times when there were 500 or so online weekend evenings. Last weekend most I saw was 150 or so. European time zone here.
Did the player base really shrink that much or is there some other reason that I saw so few people online? Just before there were just 50 ppl in the MA, thats just too little...
Thanks for your input!
Purzel
I just downloaded yesterday, after quite a few years off, I thought the same thing...
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: NatCigg on June 14, 2017, 09:25:40 PM
Personally I'd like to see more rewards for "combat" type play.
We already have a perk modifier for when a spit 1 kills a F4u-4 as apposed to another spit, bump it up! Add in achievement points as well, maybe a new kill message "announcing" the missmatched kill.
The same for participating in missions.
The same for the defenders, defending a base for 15 minutes while and equal number or greater number of attackers are in the dar circle. Put a dar circle around the strats and do the same there.
Promote combat with perks/achievement points/name in lights.
best reward i ever saw was when someone joined my missions.
it really is that simple. log, join, play. the soloist fighter jocks feed off the fish, the fish feed off the ball bearing plants, all under the banner of the MMOG.
:salute
Luche for president. :old:
:airplane:
Title: Re: Player numbers down?
Post by: Chilli on June 14, 2017, 10:23:57 PM
Personally I'd like to see more rewards for "combat" type play.
We already have a perk modifier for when a spit 1 kills a F4u-4 as apposed to another spit, bump it up! Add in achievement points as well, maybe a new kill message "announcing" the missmatched kill.
The same for participating in missions.
The same for the defenders, defending a base for 15 minutes while and equal number or greater number of attackers are in the dar circle. Put a dar circle around the strats and do the same there.
Promote combat with perks/achievement points/name in lights.