Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: LTARGlok on March 27, 2008, 07:11:42 AM
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you should read about the horrific way that they have abused this unfortunate former employee, Debbie Shank, that is now brain damaged and totally disabled.
Shame on you WalMart. I will never, ever again shop at one of your stores, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. Your behavior here is MONSTROUS and absolutely INHUMAN!
See this story for the full gruesome details:
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/03/26/kaye.walmart.update.cnn
:uhoh :uhoh
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Her contract stipulated that if she collected damages on a lawsuit, the company had the right to recoup whatever they spent on her health expenses stemming from the accident in question.
Not nice, not generous, but there was no lying here either. It was in plain language, and knowing this, her lawyer should have pressed for more money from the lawsuit to cover those expenses. The judgement may well have taken this into account, and compensated her accordingly. Unfortunate woman, careless lawyer... In fact, I bet about a thousand other lawyers would gladly take on her original firm in a malpractice case to pull the fees back out of them.
If you expect any corporation to disregard their own rules, or act human, as you say, then you're being too optimistic. Their main purpose on this earth is to make money, and they fulfill that purpose very efficiently.
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It's a fairly common practice for insurers to recoup money paid out from any subsequent settlements. The "professionals" involved in her litigation, including whoever presided over the case should be held fully accountable assuming the plaintiffs were not made aware of this exposure.
They may have trouble should they choose to pursue them. It's hard to find an attorney who will engage another lawyer in a legal malpractice suit unless they are able to find one with an ax to grind.
Shame on CNN for exploiting this family's plight without any attempt to clarify the real issue.
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ltar.. you probly want to leave the country/state too then cause..
If you collect from the government disability and then get a settlement you have to pay back the money they gave you.
lazs
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They may have trouble should they choose to pursue them. It's hard to find an attorney who will engage another lawyer in a legal malpractice suit unless they are able to find one with an ax to grind.
You sure about that, Thruster? Legal malpractice is emerging as a pretty dominant field of practice right now. There's never a shortage of plaintiff's attorneys out there, and certainly never a shortage of plaintiff's attorneys who have little to no discretion in the cases they take on... Seems like a case like this, especially after the exposure, should cause the biggest turds to come right out of the woodwork.
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure.
Lawyers like low hanging fruit. These people have little money to spend on retainers and I seriously doubt there are but a handful nationwide who will give this case two seconds before passing it to a "colleague".
There's also the issue of karma. It's a small community and I submit that most attorneys would be cautious about shedding light on indiscretions they're probably guilty of themselves.
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I saw a Penn and Teller epp. recently that opened up my whole outlook on walmart. I didn't know that they were the US's LARGEST non-gov employer. Being the biggest statistically means you are going to have more problems than everyone else. When you have 6000+ stores you are typically going to have some bad ones and some employment issues. I can't get the video from here but I just wanted to throw those 3 cents in before this becomes a wallyworld bashing thread.
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure.
Lawyers like low hanging fruit. These people have little money to spend on retainers and I seriously doubt there are but a handful nationwide who will give this case two seconds before passing it to a "colleague".
There's also the issue of karma. It's a small community and I submit that most attorneys would be cautious about shedding light on indiscretions they're probably guilty of themselves.
Yes, they do like low hanging fruit--the good ones who work for reputable firms do, anyway. Within this community, which is numbering close to 2 million now (with more in lawschool now than ever before), there are also plenty who are desperately working court-appointed work just to make ends meet.
Your point about karma is valid, if only it were applied to any other profession. My experience, which is now getting to be pretty extensive, is that there is more hypocritical self-righteous scum in this field than any other. Maybe when I'm actually done lawschool this attitude will change, but somehow I doubt it.
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Shame on you WalMart. I will never, ever again shop at one of your stores, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. Your behavior here is MONSTROUS and absolutely INHUMAN!
You will probably cut down on your shopping expenses then.
You are more than likely spending money at Wal Mart owned businesses and not even know it.
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Neubob,
we're getting way off topic here so I'll be brief.
Recent graduates having a hard time keeping body and soul together don't take contingencies on cases that will undoubtedly wear on for years. Furthermore, a large "reputable" firm (sorry for the contradiction) is probably the only hope they have. They would have the potential pro-bono budget and the horsepower to get the case the attention it would require. And of course the PR angle would be something only a well funded firm would be able to properly exploit.
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Are you an attorney yourself, Thruster?
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It's not an unusual situation by any stretch of the imagination. The same thing happened to me. I was injured in an on the job collision that cost me my job due to disability. I sued and won a settlement. The city placed a lien on the settlement so that they could recoup all of the costs of care including the surgeries. They got their cut before I saw a dime. Funny thing was that the cost of treatment was supposed to be paid by state OSHA funds IIRC, not the city.
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Shame on CNN. I believe they set it up to tell the mother that her son had died on camera just to film the reaction.
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"Are you an attorney yourself, Thruster?"
O.K.
Last post off topic.
I had to read the forum rules again just to be sure but because of rules 4,7, & 15 I'll let that one slide.
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There are a lot of instances of money being recouped by corporations/states ect. when settlements come in. I also know that quite a few states will take back all the state aid/welfare that you have been paid if say you win the lottery. I have no love at all for Wal Mart however they did what is fairly common. Her lawyer is the one that should be shot.
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you should read about the horrific way that they have abused this unfortunate former employee, Debbie Shank, that is now brain damaged and totally disabled.
Shame on you WalMart. I will never, ever again shop at one of your stores, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. Your behavior here is MONSTROUS and absolutely INHUMAN!
See this story for the full gruesome details:
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/03/26/kaye.walmart.update.cnn
:uhoh :uhoh
kneejerk, uninformed reaction. Had the OP actually known this was common, acceptyed practice, this would have been a nice troll.
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i was involved in an accident while working for a company that shall remain nameless :rolleyes:involving a third party, my insurance company whent after the third party as soon as they found out i was going to ! my lawyer and i droped our suit because "had i drawn income from the third party the insurance company would have gotten it all", and rightly so after all i am still alive and able to walk because of them and i also recieved a settlement from them, they wish to recoup there expences as well, and it was a whole lot cheaper for me to let there lawyers and investigators fight, than to pay my lawyer for all this, then have to pay them back as well.
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The usual practice would be for Walmart to subrogate against the trucking company for its out of pocket medical expenses and the woman to sue for pain and suffering as well as future care costs in separate actions.
I suppose that if she signed away her rights to recover when she entered the medical plan she is out of luck, as the court found.
It does save Walmart the expense of filing against the trucking company.
shamus
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Don't get me started on either corporate or legal ethics... :frown: Sad state of affairs.
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My wife has worked for wally world for nearly 15 years. She has worked at about 3 different stores. Walmart has a well deserved rep for how they treat employees. Here's a couple of things about Walmart.
When my wife first started at Walmart in the early 90s she had to sign a morality statement. They eventually got sued.
Walmart for years had a habit of paying male employees more than women. They got sued. My wife got a $1.50 raise. Some female employees got much more. Some got promoted.
Forcing employees to work off the clock. They are currently being sued for that one in PA.
Walmart way of handling overtime is to not pay it. They work employees over early in the week then make them take time off later in the week. And if they end up with over time they get wrote up. If their area of responsibilty isn't right they get wrote up no matter that they were pulled to go to cash registers, work another department.
They like to work employees 38 hours or less so they are classed as part time.
Heres a couple of recent happenings from where she works now.
A female worker with brain problem(operable tumor) had made some mistakes so they fired her. Not surprising. They knew she was having problems due to her illness but fired her anyway. Coincedentally 2 weeks before her scheduled operation.
My wife just got a pay raise to $14 an hour. Now she is worried that they will fire her because they can get two bodies (at $7 an hour) for what they are paying her. She's not being paranoid, she just knows how it goes.
There are plenty of good things about Walmart such as they employ a lot of lower educated women.
There are a lot more things she's told me over the years, but I'm a guy I just nod my head most of the time.
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My personal opinion, Wal-mart is the ultimate example of why some employees want to be part of labor unions.
If you have ever heard people say, "why do we need unions in America anymore?", all they have to do is look at the Wal-Mart corporation.
An interesting show about Wal-Mart, and how it is not good for America.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/ (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/)
Yes PBS is biased, but most of what they tell you (in this video) is fact, and public record.
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Oh I forgot about Walmarts efforts to fight Unions. Thats a whole page in itself!
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Oh I forgot about Walmarts efforts to fight Unions. Thats a whole page in itself!
what's wrong with that? Unions don't fleece the employers, they fleece us, the paying customer.
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what's wrong with that? Unions don't fleece the employers, they fleece us, the paying customer.
Is that your version of a "vibrax" or "pixie"?
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Oh I forgot about Walmarts efforts to fight Unions. Thats a whole page in itself!
Unions: a means to overpay an employee for what their actual value is, then force the union shop to raise prices on their goods and services.
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Yup one of walmarts worse reputations is the fact that they will not let the unions come in. I commend them for that as unions don't care about the parent company just the union jobs (and not the jobs at the company....the actual jobs AT the union)
The cost of paying someone more to work less is passed right on to a consumer. Yes just like ANY company there some bad stories but there are some good ones as well.
Walmart generally pays over minimum wage. Most "unskilled" employess start at $8/hour. While that ain't much that's better than $5.15.
A family of 4 usually saves close to a grand a year getting cheap goods at walmart. They create jobs and savings for poor communities.
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unions in and of themselves are not a bad thing, but the customer pays for what the worker does not, I.E. it is much like insurance, that you will be paid a fair amount and we will charge you for that insurance then we will make "walmart" pay you more, so you will be able to afford to pay us! the problem with "Walmart is that they do no production or manufacturing, so there whole survival is based on low cost too the customer if you put added expence into there bottom line, they cannot compete as they do! and so they cannot employ the people to work at the stores that they own hence unemployment, but at least not at third world rates! i am not saying it is a good thing, it just is what it is!! if you dont like there practices , don't work there, if you can afford to shop elsewhere, do so!! i like to buy some things at walmart but i do not do all my shoping there, becuase sometimes it isn't just about the money saved, but the quality of the product i am buying! and as always it is just my opinion!
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unions in and of themselves are not a bad thing, but the customer pays for what the worker does not, I.E. it is much like insurance, that you will be paid a fair amount and we will charge you for that insurance then we will make "walmart" pay you more, so you will be able to afford to pay us! the problem with "Walmart is that they do no production or manufacturing, so there whole survival is based on low cost too the customer if you put added expence into there bottom line, they cannot compete as they do! and so they cannot employ the people to work at the stores that they own hence unemployment, but at least not at third world rates! i am not saying it is a good thing, it just is what it is!! if you dont like there practices , don't work there, if you can afford to shop elsewhere, do so!! i like to buy some things at walmart but i do not do all my shoping there, becuase sometimes it isn't just about the money saved, but the quality of the product i am buying! and as always it is just my opinion!
good post. for many things the wife and I shop at target. Cleaner stores, better products. But, if I need a bag of bird seed or a cheap something walmart is right up the road.
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unions in and of themselves are not a bad thing, [/glow]
I disagree, of course. Unons artificially inflate wages and the increased costs are passed on to the consumer. The union workers are consumers themselves. Unions are bad... period. Unions wrecked the US auto industry.
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It's a shame that the unions in the USA had such a bad start.
They have forever been tainted by their original mob involvement both in the public eye and in the way they operate. I know it's never going to happen because they have too much to lose, but it would do the American Union Movement a great deal of good to wipe the slat clean, and start anew, loosing most of the current management in the process. A union is not there to serve it's own interests and it's purpose is not to operate as a profit making business.It is there to protect the rights of it's members only.
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Didn't even read the story so this is not in relation to it. Sam Walton would be disgraced to see what the suits n ties have done to his once respectable store.
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Unions love to hand out the workers hard-earned money on political candidates....who do not look out for the workers best interests.
Like Gun, we wind up at Target a lot. The local Super WalMart is closer, but we like avoiding the slummy feel of WallyWorld at times.
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kneejerk, uninformed reaction. Had the OP actually known this was common, acceptyed practice, this would have been a nice troll.
The fact that something is legal to do, does not necessarily make it the MORAL or RIGHT thing to do.
I know the full facts of this case, so don't be so smug and condescending towards me. I also know that the family had a lot of expenses that Walmart's insurance didn't cover, so that is why they already have spent some of the money. Walmart is demanding all of the settlement amount. Did you not see how profoundly this woman is disabled from her brain injuries? The family will then have NOTHING to see to her care needs. In fact, paying back the full amount will basically now bankrupt them and leave them in poverty. Do you think that is the right outcome to happen to someone that is severely injured in a car accident?
Who do you think will then pay to take care of this woman for the rest of her life??? Probably the US Taxpayer, unless you also support euthanazing the severely disabled. Do you not think that there is a cost here to our society?
Tell me, are you a Christian? Do you think that Jesus would approve of WalMart's lawsuit, and consider it to be according to God's law? Or are you some kind of secular progressive, who believes that as long as something is allowed by law, it is thus OK to do?
This husband and wife already lost their older son to the Iraq war. No one forced Walmart to pursue this lawsuit against this family. They could CHOOSE to take a hit here. But since the almighty DOLLAR has become more important to people than showing HUMANITY to one another, that is all they care about.
I'm sorrow, but Walmart's behavior here in this case is absolutely DESPICABLE.
I've generally avoided shopping there in recent years already. Now, I will never, ever set foot in a WalMart again.
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ltar.. you probly want to leave the country/state too then cause..
If you collect from the government disability and then get a settlement you have to pay back the money they gave you.
lazs
Well, who the heck do you think now is going to support this woman? They had a number of other expenses that the WalMart insurance did not cover. So they have already spent some of the settlement. Giving it all back to WalMart now is thus going to bankrupt them and leave them in poverty.
I hope you don't mind your tax dollars going to pay for her long term care.
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what's wrong with that? Unions don't fleece the employers, they fleece us, the paying customer.
It is illegal to prevent your employees from organizing. That is a legal right that they have under the law.
Interesting to see that you hate unions so much, that you don't want laws protecting the rights of employees to organize to be enforced.
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Didn't even read the story so this is not in relation to it. Sam Walton would be disgraced to see what the suits n ties have done to his once respectable store.
You need to read this story. This family already lost their older son to the war in Iraq. The wife is now severely brain damaged and disabled. WarlMart's lawsuit will basically put the family into poverty, and leave the family with NOTHING to see to her care for the rest of her life.
Sam Walton is not the person that the executives at WalMart need to fear. I am confident that Satan will prepare special torments and tortures in Hell for them, appropriate for their sins.
(http://www.apuritansmind.com/images/MiscImages/hell2.jpg)
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Poor Poor Jesus...
The Romans nail some poor guy to a cross and 20 centuries later he's still wandering around the world, being forced to decide whether or not to endorse law suits.
If you love him so much, give him a rest, eh?
Or nice Troll, not sure which yet.
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All righty then... anyway, Target is not much better in my opinion (as an alternate to Walmart that is)...French owned company who refuses to allow USMC toys for tots programs to operate there each Christmas and refuses to allow discounts/donations to any veteran/active military programs. Can't recall the incident that brought this to my attention, made the papers after 9/11 for awhile though.
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Oh boy, someone pulled out the JC card.
A topic discussion is all fun and games til someone claims Jesus is on their side.
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The fact that something is legal to do, does not necessarily make it the MORAL or RIGHT thing to do.
I know the full facts of this case, so don't be so smug and condescending towards me.
I'm afraid that, due to your illogical and childish position, smug and condescending is all that I'm left with. Unless, that is, you prefer unabashed derision. I could muster that.
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"Walmart way of handling overtime is to not pay it. They work employees over early in the week then make them take time off later in the week. And if they end up with over time they get wrote up. If their area of responsibilty isn't right they get wrote up no matter that they were pulled to go to cash registers, work another department.
They like to work employees 38 hours or less so they are classed as part time."
thats just normal business practice, every business i have been involved with did it, i think it's taught to all MBAs.
I have always worked on commission so i was "requested" to work 50-60 hours and commission work does not pay overtime.
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Unions wrecked the US auto industry.
So, you don't think the fact that US auto makers decided to make over half of their cars in Mexico, Canada, Korea, etc, had quite a bit to do with that?
You probably think NAFTA was a GREAT idea too. :rolleyes:
Just like all things in life, (including corporate America) there are good and bad examples. A person feeling that "all unions are bad" is the same as someone saying that all "corporations are bad.". Siteing examples like Enron, Wal-mart, or DOW chemical.
A few bad apples does not necessarily spoil the whole bunch. That goes for both sides of the fence.
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Name the good ones :)
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Why?
Apparently you think there are none. If that is true then trying to convince you of anything else is a waste of time.
Believing all Unions are "bad" is akin to believing all people that live in Compton are thieves. If that is the way you are, then your mind is too restricted to believe anything else.
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I disagree, of course. Unons artificially inflate wages and the increased costs are passed on to the consumer. The union workers are consumers themselves. Unions are bad... period. Unions wrecked the US auto industry.
Horrible designs wrecked the U.S. auto industry.
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I am curious as to what or which sins the executives at Walmart committed?
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Apparently they sinned by not showing preferential treatment to a former employee. Of course every other individual that finds themselves in a similar predicament should comply with their obligations but not these people. Every other claimant that has made recompense to an employer for interim costs should understand and castigate the company for not morphing into a charity to accommodate these people. If not, they must be sinners.
Jesus was famous for advising us to not honor our obligations. Any "christian" will tell you one should always be true to one's commitments as long as it's convenient.
Wal-Mart has an obligation not only to it's injured employees. Current employees, insurer's, creditors, and customers all have a stake in a company's operations. Caprice is rarely a productive methodology for resolving financial issues. They stepped up and put out a couple of hundred grand for an incident they had no part in. All they asked was that they be allowed to recover those funds. It happens EVERY day. It's common and accepted practice. And it's necessary. Can you imagine the legal tempest when everybody who actually followed the rules suddenly decides their situation warranted a "christian" resolution?
The bad guys here are the CNN, the attorneys and the judiciary. ALL of them. They owed these people a higher degree of diligence than they delivered. They all got paid for their efforts, well paid I'm sure, for their part in this family's drama. From what I can surmise they all exploited this situation and left these people swinging in the wind. And yes, we will all participate in the fallout to some degree.
Of course the assumption is that the family did not push for a short settlement against the advice of their representation. That remains to be seen. Although it wouldn't surprise me if they did.
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If Jesus promoted non-profit then the Roman Catholic Church is in biiiig trouble!
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I think this just took a wrong turn in Tulsa.
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Oh boy, someone pulled out the JC card.
A topic discussion is all fun and games til someone claims Jesus is on their side.
So are you saying here that morality is not something that should ever play any role in how people view the world and act???
Should corporations never have any sort of moral conscience in how they behave?? Should they only be governed by the law and their bottom line, and never the human cost that is involved in their decisions??
I don't see what has happened to this family as being a very "fun" subject that should be made light of.
Consider this: How would you personally feel yourself if you were the husband in this family? Your son returns dead from the war in Iraq, your dear wife's brain is all but gone, and now WalMart insists that you must now face financial ruin on top of all of that??
There is something known as human compassion. People should feel UPSET over what has been done to this family. They did absolutely nothing to deserve such a cruel and mean fate.
Their dead soldier son cannot be brought back, and the damage that this horrible accident did cannot be undone either. But WalMart could choose to drop their lawsuit to collect this money. Or at the very least, they could offer them a compromise, and only take back the money from the settlement that is left, instead of making them destitute.
But no, much like Shylock, WalMart insists on getting every last ounce of their full pound of flesh, and making this tragic family bleed dollars, as well as blood.
The other winners here are indeed the lawyers for both sides. For they will also get all the money that they have coming to them for this long legal battle.
This is a sad commentary on our nation, that rich corporations and lawyers thrive and prosper, while the common man ends up getting the short end of the stick.
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I am curious as to what or which sins the executives at Walmart committed?
Greed would be the only original sin that would come into play here.
However, the Vatican just officially added several new social sins a couple of weeks ago, after a very long study on the subject of Sin by the head of Sin and Penance at the Vatican. This was in the news a lot earlier this month, so hopefully you heard about it in the press.
Among these new official sins are causing social injustice, and also causing poverty. Certainly this case is unjust, and will clearly cause the family to become poor. So yes, I can definitely say that WalMart's lawsuit here was sinful according to the teachings of Christ.
Excessive wealth is now also officially considered a sin. WalMart is clearly wealthy enough to be able to afford to show some compassion here, and make an exception in this specific case. Fortunately there are many good rich people in the world that give a lot to charity.
I myself am a volunteer with the American Red Cross for one day a week, helping disabled people who are still trying to live on their own. So I have some personal experience with how much disabled people struggle to get by and need our compassion and help. Last December I also donated several hundred dollars to buy warm new blankets and sleeping bags to local families with children that are now homeless. This past winter has been unusually severe, and our local family shelter ran out of supplies, due to a much higher than normal demand. Fortunately there was a huge outpouring from our local community that took care of the shortage. This happened after a homeless single father with 3 daughters living in a motor home was profiled by local TV news.
Each and every one of us are all sinners. The only difference between us is the nature and degree of our sin, and our willingness to atone for them. At least I make some feeble attempts to atone for mine, and occasionally be the sort of person that Jesus would want us all to ideally be. However, I am certainly not superior to anyone else here. For we are all God's children.
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"WalMart is clearly wealthy enough to be able to afford to show some compassion here, and make an exception in this specific case."
That may well be true. What you don't seem to get is the probability that they are legally bound not to.
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Whilst I am not unsympathetic for their plight,their lawyer should have taken this into consideration when he negotiated the settlement. WalMart may indeed be legally bound to enforce their actions. If they did not a precedent would be set that could conceivably bankrupt the company.
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And who are you to judge how much wealth is excessive? Walmart set out on a mission and they're achieving it. With brutal efficiency, in fact. You want to get on them for something? Get on them for building ugly buildings. Other than that, I think they've done a pretty effective job at beating the competition--whose buildings are often just as ugly.
I suppose the laws of jesus and the world of survival of the fittest just aren't meant to be compatible.
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So, you don't think the fact that US auto makers decided to make over half of their cars in Mexico, Canada, Korea, etc, had quite a bit to do with that?
No. Not at all. The Auto Union Workers were DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for killing American car industry. And our car industry won't revive itself until they fire ALL of the union workers, cut all benefits indefinitely, and then reform their corporations.
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I am gonna continue to shop at walmart cause I like the cheap stuff for the most part. If they don't have the good stuff I go somewhere else but...
I will buy mobil one oil there for $21 a 5 quart instead of $35 at the napa store. I will buy name brand stuff there or non name brand that I don't care about.. that doesn't have to last.
Walmart saves the average lower middle class person about $2000 a year... you want to put a $2000 a year tax on poor people by getting rid of walmart?
lazs
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So, you don't think the fact that US auto makers decided to make over half of their cars in Mexico, Canada, Korea, etc, had quite a bit to do with that?
Are you really that foolish? The factories moved because the unions had artificially driven wages up beyond the natural scope of related job descriptions. Without these inflated wages, there would have been no reason for the automakers to spend the money to move their factories. Unbelievable how obtuse your post was.
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Hmmmmmmmmm......I didn`t realize Wally world sold autos.
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In Tulsa, WalMarts are a source of comedy relief.
5 guys sittin in the Sportin Goods dept with rods in their hands askin "Hey I think yer gettin a bite..." some customers get it...some move on fast.
Slingin Friesbees from the Toy dept towards any other dept is fun.
Grabbin ahold of a dept post microphone and annoucning that the birds overhead are Sparrows and NOT Bats and the lil girl will be okay is fun.
"Those without Shopping Cart licsense are subject to moving violations. Please report to the Auto dept for more information."
It goes on and on.... Don't knock Tulsa until you've been to a WarMart in Texas.
:P
Mac
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Correct Steve, they moved the manufacturing of their cars to foreign companies for cheaper labor. (greed)
Why? All they were concerned about was doing it "cheaper". They forgot that quality, and the fact that Americans like to buy American cars that are actually made by Americans, is one of the main things that the American car buyer is looking for.
Now for "obtuse" statements....... This little jewel is the best example on this thread
Unions are bad... period. Unions wrecked the US auto industry.
My statement, which you called "obtuse" is not a blanket statement, and is true.
Your statement is a knee-jerk, blanket statement, full of emotion and lacking truth. Not even the auto industry would agree with it.
You are loosely correct in that if the American auto industry only paid the American auto worker the same as say a Korean auto worker, they would find it much easier to compete. But please tell me how an American auto worker is going to support a family in America on $20.00 a day (or less)?
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Are you really that foolish? The factories moved because the unions had artificially driven wages up beyond the natural scope of related job descriptions. Without these inflated wages, there would have been no reason for the automakers to spend the money to move their factories. Unbelievable how obtuse your post was.
It’s the same reason Call Centers, Factories, Engineers and programmers moved overseas,
I Myself am looking forward to Having Mexican truck drives Start driving in this country, I think it would greatly reduce the cost of transporting goods. Maybe then produce will come down in price.
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Correct Steve, they moved the manufacturing of their cars to foreign companies for cheaper labor. (greed)
Why? All they were concerned about was doing it "cheaper". They forgot that quality, and the fact that Americans like to buy American cars that are actually made by Americans, is one of the main things that the American car buyer is looking for.
Now for "obtuse" statements....... This little jewel is the best example on this thread
My statement, which you called "obtuse" is not a blanket statement, and is true.
Your statement is a knee-jerk, blanket statement, full of emotion and lacking truth. Not even the auto industry would agree with it.
You are loosely correct in that if the American auto industry only paid the American auto worker the same as say a Korean auto worker, they would find it much easier to compete. But please tell me how an American auto worker is going to support a family in America on $20.00 a day (or less)?
First off, Greed has made everything great in this world. You're foolish to think otherwise.
Next, the Auto Workers Union did screw themselves. They inflated the value of their wages to many times what their work was actually worth. This caused the American car makers to lower the quality of their cars to compete with the Foreign imports.
If (big if there), the American Auto Manufacturers were to throw the union agreements in the trash can and start anew, they'd be able to produce BETTER QUALITY CARS FOR LESS. And that's before you even begin to consider any tariffs put on foreign cars. That lower cost would lead to better research, better development, MORE PROFIT IN AMERICAN HANDS.
But of course, asking a Liberal to understand economics is much like asking a monkey to understand long division. You can put it in their face as much as you want, the monkey brain just won't get moving fast enough.
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Laser you're 100% correct with your statement about reducing the wages allows for greater investment in a higher quality product.
The only sticking point is how long can the average American worker support his family on a reduced wage? I guess if the factories had brought in scores of illegal immigrants to do the work everything would have been OK?
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Correct Steve, they moved the manufacturing of their cars to foreign companies for cheaper labor. (greed)
Why? All they were concerned about was doing it "cheaper". They forgot that quality, and the fact that Americans like to buy American cars that are actually made by Americans, is one of the main things that the American car buyer is looking for.
Now for "obtuse" statements....... This little jewel is the best example on this thread
My statement, which you called "obtuse" is not a blanket statement, and is true.
Your statement is a knee-jerk, blanket statement, full of emotion and lacking truth. Not even the auto industry would agree with it.
You are loosely correct in that if the American auto industry only paid the American auto worker the same as say a Korean auto worker, they would find it much easier to compete. But please tell me how an American auto worker is going to support a family in America on $20.00 a day (or less)?
You are grossly misinformed if you think companies relocate entire facilities simply as a matter of greed. With the unions driving up wages, US auto companies would not be able to compete... forget greed. Stay with your little fantasy though, it probably gives you a nice warm fuzzy feeling inside to blame someone other than the unions.
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Dammmm just go to KMart and screw this thread.
Mac
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I guess if the factories had brought in scores of illegal immigrants to do the work everything would have been OK?
Nice try but bZzzzzzzzzt!.. The factory workers need to be paid what a factory worker is worth. If they want to make more money, they should try things like... oh I dunno.... getting an education.
It sounds nice to sympathize with the supposed plight of the factory worker but the fact is that most of them made choices in their lives to become factory workers. They shouldn't get artificially inflated wages. These wages drive up the very prices of their products until they are no longer competitive, then these very same over paid laborers are soon out of jobs..... sound familiar?
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:rofl mac
We don't have WalMarts here in Oz, but we do get Crazy Clarks, and The Warehouse.
Usually cheap and nasty stuff, but you occasionally find a good deal there.
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Unions: a means to overpay an employee for what their actual value is, then force the union shop to raise prices on their goods and services.
I agree with some of your stance on unions but the fact is that whether its Walmart or some other meglo conglomerate management does not treat employees fair. Look at most of our major corporations. CEO's making a hundred million dollars flying private jets(at company expense), taking no interest loans, and getting sweetheart deals. And the guy on the bottom is responsible for high prices because he wants a 50 cent raise?
I have never been part of a union but I have seen how the worker is treated by corporate America. Business is the heart of America but there needs to be a balance.
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So if a company cuts costs, so that they remain profitable and available to their customers...that's greed?
Oh that's rich.
Glock, you really need to be careful about throwing all those rocks around in your glass house.
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I agree with some of your stance on unions but the fact is that whether its Walmart or some other meglo conglomerate management does not treat employees fair. Look at most of our major corporations. CEO's making a hundred million dollars flying private jets(at company expense), taking no interest loans, and getting sweetheart deals. And the guy on the bottom is responsible for high prices because he wants a 50 cent raise?
I have never been part of a union but I have seen how the worker is treated by corporate America. Business is the heart of America but there needs to be a balance.
50 cents is undercutting it. Union chashiers in California get paid $20+ dollars an hour to scan groceries.
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I agree with some of your stance on unions but the fact is that whether its Walmart or some other meglo conglomerate management does not treat employees fair. Look at most of our major corporations. CEO's making a hundred million dollars flying private jets(at company expense), taking no interest loans, and getting sweetheart deals. And the guy on the bottom is responsible for high prices because he wants a 50 cent raise?
I have never been part of a union but I have seen how the worker is treated by corporate America. Business is the heart of America but there needs to be a balance.
When I read your post, I immediately think of the airline employees of American Airlines. They took large cuts in pay to help the airline get by. When the profits started coming, who dove in first? The CEOs and management. Just appalling. That to me is an example of a decent union always getting the screws put to them.
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First off, Greed has made everything great in this world. You're foolish to think otherwise.
Well, I was raised to believe that the way you archive things is just as important as whether or not you succeed in achieving them. Apparently you were not. Sorry to hear that.
I will never be a rich man, there are several reasons, but having a clear conscience is one of them.
But of course, asking a Liberal to understand economics is much like asking a monkey to understand long division.
Again is that a pixie or spoon? :)
For the record, I am old school democrat (Zell Miller type), or what some call a "Conservative Democrat". The way the democratic party was before the "liberal" movement. I am a NRA member, Pro-life, believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. I Believe in responsible use of our resources (logging, fishing, motorized recreation, etc), I have a large collection of assault weapons, A 130hp 2 stroke snowmachine, and a RAM 4x4 with a Hemi. ;) I believe there should be prayer in schools, and when I say the pledge, I use the word "God".
Now with all of that said, I also believe that the American worker has the right to organize and negotiate a contract with it's employer.
So, If you think I am a liberal because I believe in the golden rule, Then I am proud to be one (in your book). :aok
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Golden rule = He who has the Gold makes the rules?
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Le Paul, I almost mentioned the Airlines. CEOs making a hundred million a year and they had the nerve to go to congress for a bail out.
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When I read your post, I immediately think of the airline employees of American Airlines. They took large cuts in pay to help the airline get by. When the profits started coming, who dove in first? The CEOs and management. Just appalling. That to me is an example of a decent union always getting the screws put to them.
A fine example, and proof that not all unions "are bad". Just like not all corporations are bad.
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Sorry, Sled, based on your beleifs, you are Conservative Republican!
Course that also depends on your view on taxation.
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Nope, because I am a strong Union Man.
I would rather be Old school Democrat. ;)
There are also to many other agendas that the republicans have that I can not agree with.
BTW, I was against the Iraq war, I felt we should have stayed focused on Osama in Afghanistan. Unfortunately I feel that history is going to prove me right. However, now that we have started the mess, I do feel we need to finish it.
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Oh boy, someone pulled out the JC card.
A topic discussion is all fun and games til someone claims Jesus is on their side.
No less a wrong than trying to somehow spin this against Unions...which had nothing to do with this poor woman, according to the CNN file.
The 470,000$ spread out over ALL Wal-mart sales' worldwide would amount to what? A half-cent price increase on every product? Would that be too much to pay? Especially since Wally would simply write off the loss on their taxes?
Have we as a community become so base, so shallow of character, that we would not even pay that much to help the family of a fallen Hero, someone who went and gave the ultimate sacrifice, so that we could sit here in front of a keyboard and type all these reasons' why we should kill all the Muslims? Why this is such a great country?
This thread is a great shame.
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I agree with some of your stance on unions but the fact is that whether its Walmart or some other meglo conglomerate management does not treat employees fair. Look at most of our major corporations. CEO's making a hundred million dollars flying private jets(at company expense), taking no interest loans, and getting sweetheart deals. And the guy on the bottom is responsible for high prices because he wants a 50 cent raise?
I have never been part of a union but I have seen how the worker is treated by corporate America. Business is the heart of America but there needs to be a balance.
Listen, I know this is going to be hard to understand with a liberal mindset, but just try.
You yourself would not pay more than something is worth. So why should a company pay more to an employee than what the employee is worth, at expense to itself.
It feels all good and righteous to demand a raise in the minimum wage, but it does not serve ANYONE, including the EMPLOYEES to demand such. First and foremost, the costs of the raise are passed on to the customers, namely those making very little to begin with. Basically, you are making those that earn minimum wage have to spend more to buy things. So a $1 raise per hour sounds nice, but not if they are spending THOUSANDS more per year to subsist.
Not only that, but the corporations are going to lay off the substandard employees they can't afford. So not only will the employees not be able to buy as much, but 1/4 of them won't have jobs to begin with.
Congratudiddlyinglations. Your minimum wage hike has not only made each dollar the minimum wage earner worth less, but 25% of them aren't earning any money at all.
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I decide where to shop/eat/drink/spend money almost entirely based upon how these places support our local soldiers.
Our local Wally World is a tremendous supporter of our troops ~ the school PTA's which the soldiers children attend, the USO, who attends all of the deployment/redeployment manifests, the Army Community Services programs, individual units, the Enlisted Spouses Club and Officers Wives Club, Santa's Workshop, our military family member Scholarship Fund... all of which have a direct impact on our Soldiers. Their contributions have been exceedingly generous.
Over the years I've been involved in most of the local volunteer organizations here on post. I have YET to see Target or KMart contribute one single thing to our troops. I'll continue to shop at Wally.
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America needs more women like TxMom.
Behind every American fighting man is a woman fighting harder.
*tips hat*
Thank ya TxMom.
Mac
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I decide where to shop/eat/drink/spend money almost entirely based upon how these places support our local soldiers.
Our local Wally World is a tremendous supporter of our troops ~ the school PTA's which the soldiers children attend, the USO, who attends all of the deployment/redeployment manifests, the Army Community Services programs, individual units, the Enlisted Spouses Club and Officers Wives Club, Santa's Workshop, our military family member Scholarship Fund... all of which have a direct impact on our Soldiers. Their contributions have been exceedingly generous.
Over the years I've been involved in most of the local volunteer organizations here on post. I have YET to see Target or KMart contribute one single thing to our troops. I'll continue to shop at Wally.
True, TxMom. But Wal-Mart isn't the only business that has Military support programs. However, When someone really needs' help badly, when all they have to do is relent, they are the ones' actually turning the thumbscrews' tighter. On someone who was a somewhat long-term employee, no less.
Legal or no, their actions' are deplorable.
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I will only purcas eItems from Wal Mart that were made in the USA. Pretty much curtails my shopping there. Goes for Target too.
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I disagree, of course. Unons artificially inflate wages and the increased costs are passed on to the consumer. The union workers are consumers themselves. Unions are bad... period. Unions wrecked the US auto industry.
The Commercial Food Workers Union has NO BEARING on salary for an employee. I know, I was in it. They are how a "Union" should be. Don't knock ALL Unions. Just because the UAW is a POS, doesn't mean they all are.
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The Commercial Food Workers Union has NO BEARING on salary for an employee. I know, I was in it. They are how a "Union" should be. Don't knock ALL Unions. The because the UAW is a POS, doesn't mean they all are.
Man, I need to see a shrink..or else something is in the water, because I agree. Not all Unions are bad. When I was in high school, I worked for a grocery store chain that had a Union. They had no bearing in how much money they paid us. They just made sure we were not over worked, treated unfairly and fired for no reason. We had a better "quality of life" (work wise) where we worked under the Union than the employees that worked at another chain that did not have a Union (Publix).
However, not all Unions are like this. The UAW is a prime example. I have the feeling if Wal-mart were to have a Union it would get out of hand like the UAW is. Mostly because Wal-mart is a cash cow and anything associated with Wal-mart is going to make money. Greed is a powerful thing. I think a Union would kill off Wal-mart in a matter of years. Then again, maybe that is not such a bad thing. At least the mom and pop places will have a fighting chance again.
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some disturbing things in this thread.. not the least of which is macs continued Texas envy.
ltardglock believes that wealth is a sin. that is fine. not true but fine.. he can believe what he wants but... I get the hint that when he says that we should help (his particular charity) he means that the money to do it should be forced from us at the point of a gun.. in other words.. socialism. that offends me. I give to who I want. I don't give to who he wants.
sled votes for a party who is against everything in the world he believes in and who is actively trying to destroy everything he believes in and/or ban it. But... the protect the unions a little better than the party who is in moral sinc with him so... it works out for him? No vouchers is the democrats "protecting" the worthless union aholes. detroit failing is democrats protecting the union. stupid and broke and everything a gray area.. that is what he votes for.. and if they take his guns and snowmobiles and money... well.. it's still worth it to be able to raise the union fist in solidarity.
lazs
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I figure Sam Walton would be cutting a bunch of big wigs loose in his company if he was still alive.
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The 470,000$ spread out over ALL Wal-mart sales' worldwide would amount to what? A half-cent price increase on every product? Would that be too much to pay? Especially since Wally would simply write off the loss on their taxes?
This would be fine if it were in a nice isolated bubble. What about the next time someone gets hurt, and the next time, and the next time? Is Walmart supposed to eat the costs every time? Where do you draw the line? Since this incident is not isolated, it does not make good business sense for Walmart to eat, for its own sake and for their employees' sake. Exposure of this case to the unwashed, uninformed masses may cause enough PR pressure to necessitate what you are advocating, but this would only serve to mollify the mob and would open Walmart to repeat examples.... a pandora's box of sorts.
Is Walmart self insured? If not, failure to recoup thier losses would, and still could regardless, result in the insurance premiums of other employees going up to cover the loss. It's how insurance works.
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Is Walmart self insured? If not, failure to recoup thier losses would, and still could regardless, result in the insurance premiums of other employees going up to cover the loss. It's how insurance works.
Good question, Steve. I don't personally know; I've never worked there. Almost all the jobs' I've worked at before what I'm doing now went through something like Gem care, or Blue cross, and we just payed a premium. However, there are so many things' that drive those premiums' up, such as accidents' or injuries' that happen to someone else that is covered by your provider, who isn't even in your particular companies' plan, that can drive up premiums. This is true of any kind of insurance, but it is the most noticable in the medical field, because of the great number of claims made there. I would think that Maybe Wal-mart would benefit from self-insurance, so that premiums' could stay somewhat stable; However, with as many people as they employ, I don't really think it would make much difference.
I would point out, however, if there had been no litigation on the woman's part, that Wal-mart would have had to eaten it anyway, for with no lawsuit, no recouping clause goes into effect. To me, it's just some beancounter being oppurtunistic.
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My past posts have explained how negatively I view Wally Mart.. I haven't been in one of their stores in 7 years, I view their practices of "setting prices" to their suppliers as a gross manifestation of capitalism. I view a company that is contributing to probably 1/4 of our trade deficit as a negative for the country, if only because we are so easily swayed by a couple of pennies in savings. The lead toys are always cheaper, right?
In this case, I feel Wally Mart should have backed off, if only to show they have some sort of humanity at the helm. I agree with the practice of recouping loss in some cases, by companies, as the individual that is involved in the injury should not gain a financial windfall for their issues, at least not at the expense of the company, or the company's healthplan.
In this case, however, the woman involved has been relegated to a nursing home, and the money Walmart is suing back from her was the only money that she had. Money that should be used for her to survive in some sort of stability for her natural life. She is now brain damaged and will require care for the rest of her life. Walmart's actions in this respect are dispicable. The bottom line should be tempered by morality. Theirs is not. This woman is so severely injured that she forgets her son was killed in Iraq the week after her accident. She has to be continually re-told her son is gone... OVER AND OVER, for the rest of her life, each time she will hear it for the first time.
This action only serves to strengthen my opinion of their company. I will not shop in any store associated with them, ever.
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sled votes for a party who is against everything in the world he believes in and who is actively trying to destroy everything he believes in and/or ban it. But... the protect the unions a little better than the party who is in moral sinc with him so... it works out for him? No vouchers is the democrats "protecting" the worthless union aholes. detroit failing is democrats protecting the union. stupid and broke and everything a gray area.. that is what he votes for.. and if they take his guns and snowmobiles and money... well.. it's still worth it to be able to raise the union fist in solidarity.
lazs
Where did I say who or what I vote for lazs? You have been making wrong assumptions throughout this thread, no surprise you are continuing.
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She doesn't have to be retold where her son is over and over. Only a sadist like yourself would do that.
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In this case, however, the woman involved has been relegated to a nursing home, and the money Walmart is suing back from her was the only money that she had. Money that should be used for her to survive in some sort of stability for her natural life.
so tell me, exactly how is her life going to change now that she doesn't have that money?
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She doesn't have to be retold where her son is over and over. Only a sadist like yourself would do that.
I believe the reason MORAY stated that, was to reinforce a point-that she is going to be totally dependent on nursing care, for the rest of her life. If her brain damage is that bad, she won't recover, and has pretty much lost the ability to care for herself in modern society. It is also currently beyond the ability of the family to care for her, so they are forced to turn to professional(read, paid) help.
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"WalMart is clearly wealthy enough to be able to afford to show some compassion here, and make an exception in this specific case."
That may well be true. What you don't seem to get is the probability that they are legally bound not to.
What you don't seem to get is that I am discussing morality here, and not any legal issues.
I have followed the case in the press in detail. The case actually went all the way to an appeal to the US Supreme Court. And they refused to hear it, allowing the lower court's ruling in favor of WalMart to stand.
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Walmart saves the average lower middle class person about $2000 a year... you want to put a $2000 a year tax on poor people by getting rid of walmart?
lazs
Do you really believe that there are no competitive alternatives to shopping at WalMart??
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so tell me, exactly how is her life going to change now that she doesn't have that money?
...I think that money is for incurred medical expenses' up-to-date. So that now, the family owes' almost half a million dollars' that it never had in the first place. They now owe for all their medical bills that the insurance would normally have paid.
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some disturbing things in this thread.. not the least of which is macs continued Texas envy.
lazs
lazs just isn't getting the attention that he wants or needs so badly.
Son you know nothing of the rivalry between Texas and Oklahoma... so keep yer nose buried in Kalifornia while the Older Folk talk.
Thank you kid.
Mac
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It’s the same reason Call Centers, Factories, Engineers and programmers moved overseas,
I Myself am looking forward to Having Mexican truck drives Start driving in this country, I think it would greatly reduce the cost of transporting goods. Maybe then produce will come down in price.
And so all of the wages of truck drivers will then go to Mexican citizens, and most of that money will then end up in the Mexican economy, instead of the US economy. This will be a most wonderful development.
Are you blind as to how dramatic the US trade deficit already is? The deficit for just this past January alone is over $58 BILLION dollars.
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Dammmm just go to KMart and screw this thread.
Mac
Isn't KMart nearly bankrupt? All the ones near me have closed.
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I decide where to shop/eat/drink/spend money almost entirely based upon how these places support our local soldiers.
Our local Wally World is a tremendous supporter of our troops ...
And you think that financially ruining a family that has already lost a son in the war in Iraq is somehow supporting our troops?
I wonder: Just how would that dead American serviceman feel about the way that WalMart is treating his mother and father??
Very strange logic you are using here indeed!!
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some disturbing things in this thread.. not the least of which is macs continued Texas envy.
ltardglock believes that wealth is a sin. that is fine. not true but fine.. he can believe what he wants but...
I am most sorry Laz, but this is not what I believe, but what Christians believe.
"I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Matthew 19:24.
Do you not believe that the Lord Jesus Christ spoke true words here??
I get the hint that when he says that we should help (his particular charity) he means that the money to do it should be forced from us at the point of a gun.. in other words.. socialism. that offends me. I give to who I want. I don't give to who he wants.
That has got to be one of the most ridiculous and outlandish distortions that I have ever seen posted in an online forum. I was merely trying to explain and illustrate how I attempt to put my beliefs into practice in order to be a good Christian. I think that everyone else here clearly understood that. For you to attempt here to twist what I said and pervert it into claiming that I made some sort of plea for people to somehow support the American Red Cross is totally disingenuous and deceitful on your part.
You are to be ashamed of yourself.
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I view their practices of "setting prices" to their suppliers as a gross manifestation of capitalism.
That is exACTLY how Toyota has run its business for decades, during which time our over-paid union auto workers have slowly strangled their own industry. If the job you're doing can be done by an unskilled, illiterate Mexican, odds are it will eventually BE done by an unskilled,illiterate Mexican :frown:
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I believe the reason MORAY stated that, was to reinforce a point-that she is going to be totally dependent on nursing care, for the rest of her life. If her brain damage is that bad, she won't recover, and has pretty much lost the ability to care for herself in modern society. It is also currently beyond the ability of the family to care for her, so they are forced to turn to professional(read, paid) help.
There are a lot of programs now to try to help disabled people stay out of managed care facilities ( that is the more up to date term to use ). And that is because it actually costs a lot more to maintain someone in such a facility. Studies have also shown that people are often happiest if they are still able to live in their own home or apartment.
As I mentioned before, I volunteer one day a week in helping disabled folks who are living on their own. The main funds for the service that the team that I am on provides comes from Medicare. While they provide most of the money, the non-profit I volunteer with manages the program here locally. ( I will not mention their name again, since some here have some kind of crazy idea that I am trying somehow to promote them. It is actually a pretty well known aid program that most likely many of you have heard of. ) And they also raise private donations to help pay for the program too. Some of the people have family that stop by and help them. Virtually all are monitored by social workers. A few have a live-in helper, and even that works out to being less expensive than taking them into a managed care home.
I even know one couple that ended up having to divorce, just like the couple in this case with WalMart, in order to be able to collect decent benefits.
If this woman ends up in managed care, it will take a lot of money to care for her needs. And all of us taxpayers will then be paying for it.
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That is exACTLY how Toyota has run its business for decades, during which time our over-paid union auto workers have slowly strangled their own industry. If the job you're doing can be done by an unskilled, illiterate Mexican, odds are it will eventually BE done by an unskilled,illiterate Mexican :frown:
Well, Toyota has a total of 13 factories now in the USA. Fewer and fewer Toyota and Lexus cars sold here are now being built in Japan.
They only have 3 factories in Canada, and only 1 in Mexico. And those are for the most part for supporting sales in those countries.
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If this woman ends up in managed care, it will take a lot of money to care for her needs. And all of us taxpayers will then be paying for it.
True enough, Glok, and it won't matter how much money she has/had, because the facility will get it all before the first year is out---and they will go back several years to make sure money isn't being shielded in the account of a relative
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True enough, Glok, and it won't matter how much money she has/had, because the facility will get it all before the first year is out---and they will go back several years to make sure money isn't being shielded in the account of a relative
Don't you have to meet certain circumstances' to qualify for most of these programs? And isn't space limited?
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And you think that financially ruining a family that has already lost a son in the war in Iraq is somehow supporting our troops? I wonder: Just how would that dead American serviceman feel about the way that WalMart is treating his mother and father??
Very strange logic you are using here indeed!!
Actually, no, the specific reasons in my initial post (which you conveniently omitted from your quote of me above) are the ways that I have seen them demonstrate (not just state, but actually ACT on it) the support of our troops.
Our local Wally World is a tremendous supporter of our troops ~ the school PTA's which the soldiers children attend, the USO, who attends all of the deployment/redeployment manifests, the Army Community Services programs, individual units, the Enlisted Spouses Club and Officers Wives Club, Santa's Workshop, our military family member Scholarship Fund... all of which have a direct impact on our Soldiers. Their contributions have been exceedingly generous.
Over the years I've been involved in most of the local volunteer organizations here on post. I have YET to see Target or KMart contribute one single thing to our troops.
Does it improve the poor circumstances for this one particular lady? No
Is it common practice for them? Not in my community. And in return for their unwavering support of our troops here in my community, I will continue to shop there.
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What you don't seem to get is that I am discussing morality here.
Yes, you have incorrectly berated Walmart as being immoral.
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In I-Tard-Glok's world, all business should be run based on his narrow sense of morality.
So tell me, Mr Values, how much money have you donated to this lady whose cause you are championing?
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She doesn't have to be retold where her son is over and over. Only a sadist like yourself would do that.
No, sir. If you read about the woman, ( I know, it's a stretch for you to actually do any background before you bash me) her brain damage actually is so bad that she doesn't retain much that is told to her. Her memory prior to the accident is apparently almost perfect. Therefore, she constantly is asking to talk to her son, or to get a message through the DoD to him about her, and is constantly had to be told that he is in fact DEAD. Just about every single day she has to deal with being told her son has died in Iraq, and to deal with it as if it were the first time she heard it. She then promptly forgets it and then asks about her son... that she needs to get a message to him.
Please, you may not like me, for all I care, but flame me when you actually know what the #$#% you are talking about.
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In I-Tard-Glok's world, all business should be run based on his narrow sense of morality.
So tell me, Mr Values, how much money have you donated to this lady whose cause you are championing?
Don't worry. We'll all get to donate now that Wally World isn't. It's called managed hell...err, care.
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That is exACTLY how Toyota has run its business for decades, during which time our over-paid union auto workers have slowly strangled their own industry. If the job you're doing can be done by an unskilled, illiterate Mexican, odds are it will eventually BE done by an unskilled,illiterate Mexican :frown:
Please, feel free to show me where Toyota sets the prices of any part of their supply chain. You are grossly wrong in your assertion. Walmart is the first and only company to EVER reverse the normal supply and demand structure of capitalism.
Normally, demand drives prices, with supply determining said price. Wally World has become so large, they TELL companies what they will be buying from them and what price, and usually it is way below the price at which demand has fixed it. So, therefore, smaller suppliers are forced to deal with Wally World on Wally's terms, and not the terms set forth in a free market economy.
Do the research, it will spin your head.
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Yes, you have incorrectly berated Walmart as being immoral.
Please, feel free to show him why he is wrong.
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Please, feel free to show him why he is wrong.
It is self evident to anyone with a modicum of business acumen. Based on your statement, you do not fall in this category.
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In I-Tard-Glok's world, all business should be run based on his narrow sense of morality.
So tell me, Mr Values, how much money have you donated to this lady whose cause you are championing?
Anyone got any kind of idea if Medicaid, or Medicare, will pay the $470,000 that these people will now owe, due to the Wal-mart lawsuit? I ask that, being as that sum was from Medical expenses incurred from the accident.
I think they pick up the tab. However, her future treatment or care will be at whatever level Medicare sets it at.
Please, feel free to show me where Toyota sets the prices of any part of their supply chain. You are grossly wrong in your assertion. Walmart is the first and only company to EVER reverse the normal supply and demand structure of capitalism.
Normally, demand drives prices, with supply determining said price. Wally World has become so large, they TELL companies what they will be buying from them and what price, and usually it is way below the price at which demand has fixed it. So, therefore, smaller suppliers are forced to deal with Wally World on Wally's terms, and not the terms set forth in a free market economy.
Do the research, it will spin your head.
I found this, it's an interesting little read...http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html?page=0%2C0 (http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html?page=0%2C0)
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Damm was hoping that soon lazs or rpm would post and divert this thread to a librul handout, gun control, Bush is the Devil or something about Nazis.
Crap... well the night is still young...
*popcorn anyone?*
Mac
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Mac you're just text pollution. :uhoh
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I found this, it's an interesting little read...http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html?page=0%2C0 (http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html?page=0%2C0)
So Wally World is the Retail Mafia?
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I really find the vast majority of people in the O'Club to be extraordinarily narrow-minded and thoughtlessly bigoted... but this is a topic that I am actually interested in, so I'll dive into the skunk pool.
Lepaul, Laser, any other posters who are in favor of laissez-faire capitalism, do you truly believe that the 1880s were as good as it ever got for the United States? Answer that honestly, even if it means you have to go read a few books. If so, you are in luck, because we've been headed back that way since the late 70s, and it looks like the pendulum isn't getting set to swing the other way... ever. Laser, I have a feeling I would *really* like to sit and have a beer and just shoot the toejam about this kind of thing, even though I disagree vehemently with most of your positions.
I do want to pose a question for you though. Lets say we get to the point that capitalism is SUPPOSED to get to. One guy has all the money, and power... and everyone else has nothing. Do you just hope you are that guy, or what? Or do you favor womanly government intervention to keep the economy inefficient? Sorry, I was channelling Lazs there :).
By the way... unions are a direct result of the 1880-1900 period. If you are looking for their raison d'etre... read up on your US History.
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Where is Theodore Roosevelt when you need him?
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sled.. if I got you wrong then I apologize.. I just read this and thought that meant that... if you were a democrat then you would vote for democrats..
"For the record, I am old school democrat (Zell Miller type), or what some call a "Conservative Democrat". The way the democratic party was before the "liberal" movement. I am a NRA member, Pro-life, believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. I Believe in responsible use of our resources (logging, fishing, motorized recreation, etc), I have a large collection of assault weapons, A 130hp 2 stroke snowmachine, and a RAM 4x4 with a Hemi. Wink I believe there should be prayer in schools, and when I say the pledge, I use the word "God".
Now with all of that said, I also believe that the American worker has the right to organize and negotiate a contract with it's employer."
If that is not what you are (a democrat).. if you are only saying that IF the democrats were like they used to be that you would vote for em.. then I have misjudged you. What you have described tho is a republican.. there is no such democrat today soo.. you are either a republican who can't admit it or..living in the past. Democrats were also against equal rights in the past. I doubt most new democrats want to claim that legacy.
lazs
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Walmart saves the average lower middle class person about $2000 a year... you want to put a $2000 a year tax on poor people by getting rid of walmart?
lazs
Of course I do! Along with unionizing the snot out of them. And extending the price increases to all of you. Oh, the horror, the horror! End of the world sort of stuff. We will have to pay more for our fluffy wuffies!!!
I was raised during the autumn hey day of unions. Poor America. It was so wretched here from 1957 to 1967.
What strikes me as odd is how happily many on the boards are thrilled to be plundered by guys in suits and ties. Don't you feel squeamish holding their hands in public?
Anyone have the stat on what portion of stuff bought by American's is needless? Read it recently someplace.
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awmac... touchy touchy.. not my fault you have Texas envy.. you claim I don't know enough about the Texas okie rivalry but.. I do know this much.. the Texans here aren't playing is what I see.. they pretty much ignore you. While you.. are obsessed.. every thread. You seem to be the only one playing.
ltardglock... I don't know what jesus christ said.. I wasn't there. I do not believe that it is difficult for a rich man to be a good person or to get into heaven. any more than it is for a bigoted, narrow minded fundamentalist to get into heaven or even not be terminally obnoxious to be around.
I said that it is none of my business who you give to or how much.. just as it is none of yours who I do... I get nervous when you start saying "WE NEED TO.." on anything.. you are not a "we". You are not allowed to tell me what I need to do or who I give my money to.
As for Walmart and how much poor people save.. I noticed you didn't dispute that.. getting rid of walmart would be a $2000 a year tax on the poor.. You asked if I didn't think there was alternatives.... I don't.
Union? prices up to pay salaries higher than the worth of the product... Mom and Pop? low wages.. high prices and a general tendency to treat everyone like crap.. they won't even smile at customers until a walmart shows up in the neighborhood..
In our town the local stores were crap with high prices and low wages and an arrogant attitude.. when walmart came.. the raised their wages and lowered their prices to compete.. they even say "hi" and smile now.
So where are these "alternatives to walmart"? that you tout?
lazs
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well hap.. then maybe you were around in the 60's when the unions destroyed the auto industry? All those high wages and what? did it make it so the guy working at the gas station could afford a new chevy or....
did he buy that new Toyopet or datsun?
I shop at walmart.. we have a new one and it is pretty nice. clean and friendly. lots of folks who didn't have jobs now do. What is the problem?
lazs
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well hap.. then maybe you were around in the 60's when the unions destroyed the auto industry?
Lazs, what dog do you have in this hunt to turn a blind eye to where the money accrues? Are you in the grip of a theory or what?
So you believe unions destroyed Detroit?
Well, if you say it, that must make it so.
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hap.. I am not sure what you are saying. It is none of my business where the money goes. For the most part...
I lived in Fremont where there was Ford and Gm plants.. I knew plenty of folks who worked there.. they were overpaid druggies like you would not believe. they got way too much money for way too little skill level. The parking lot looked like it was covered in diamonds and riches from the freeway until you got close and seen it was just broken bottles and used syringes causing the glitter. I made a fortune off those worthless union guys and wouldn't buy a new car for decades. Did you ever see the level of craftsmanship in those cars back then?
I got no problem with unions.. they are welcome. I would rather just hire mediators and used interest based negotiation but.. to each his own.
lazs
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Please, feel free to show me where Toyota sets the prices of any part of their supply chain. You are grossly wrong in your assertion. Walmart is the first and only company to EVER reverse the normal supply and demand structure of capitalism.
Normally, demand drives prices, with supply determining said price. Wally World has become so large, they TELL companies what they will be buying from them and what price, and usually it is way below the price at which demand has fixed it. So, therefore, smaller suppliers are forced to deal with Wally World on Wally's terms, and not the terms set forth in a free market economy.
Do the research, it will spin your head.
What they DO (at least what they did in Japan, cant speak to how they work it over here, other than it seems any foreign auto plant is always in a non-union state like Tennessee, Mississippi or Alabama) is find a contractor that makes some aspect of a vehicle (differentials, etc), get put enough demand on that contractor to get him to commit to doing ONLY Toyota work,(i.e. re-tooling plant) or losing it all---At that point he HAS no other customers, and he then becomes Toyota's b***h. If said contractor doesn't jump through every hoop, Toyota (OR Nissan, any of the others) can effectively end their company's existence--brutal world out there.
http://www.h-net.org/~business/bhcweb/publications/BEHprint/v019/p0163-p0171.pdf
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I lived in Fremont where there was Ford and Gm plants.. I knew plenty of folks who worked there.. they were overpaid druggies like you would not believe. they got way too much money for way too little skill level.
This is getting to the crux of a matter. Without taking care or pride of one's life, union or no union doesn't matter a whit.
Changing the cast of characters, much could and should be said about mismanagement.
As it is now, it seems folks are into the "selling" racket. Doesn't matter what. Oh! The goose that laid the golden egg is a good example. Folks selling the goose back and forth. All being to impatient too wait for the eggs. Pity the guy who gets the goose last when it's worn out and not laying anymore.
The alternative, which I favor, is to scan about and see what we need. Make that ourselves. Pay those in the loop what they need to frame a decent life.
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hap.. sounds good until....
You tell us how you would do that. How do you do any of the things you think should happen?
Nope.. you let things take the natural capitalistic course. Sure.. the management and ceo's are worthless and bloated but.. that is changing believe it or not.. more and more stockholders are squeaking and asking for results.. if they get results.. then it matters not what the salary...
It also matters not how much the worker "needs" if all he does is run an air powered screwdriver and put in the same 5 capscrews all day long. he ain't worth much.
I will buy from walmart. they have some crap I won't buy and don't need. kids clothes that are outgrown in 6 months and made by cheap labor in china? why not?
Do I feel bad about the conditions those people are working under? nope. not really.. they aren't.. they want the work.. the alternative is starving.. they don't like the work? don't do it. Don't like starving? How bout they have about 6 less kids to feed?
lazs
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Do I feel bad about the conditions those people are working under? nope. not really.. they aren't.. they want the work.. the alternative is starving.. they don't like the work? don't do it. Don't like starving? How bout they have about 6 less kids to feed?
lazs
Par for the course, Lazs. Full of pre-conceived ideology and racial bias.
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Par for the course, Lazs. Full of pre-conceived ideology and racial bias.
:lol what a clown
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I'm curious Steve - what do you do for a living?
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Of course I do! Along with unionizing the snot out of them. And extending the price increases to all of you. Oh, the horror, the horror! End of the world sort of stuff. We will have to pay more for our fluffy wuffies!!!
I was raised during the autumn hey day of unions. Poor America. It was so wretched here from 1957 to 1967.
What strikes me as odd is how happily many on the boards are thrilled to be plundered by guys in suits and ties. Don't you feel squeamish holding their hands in public?
Anyone have the stat on what portion of stuff bought by American's is needless? Read it recently someplace.
I’m going to ignore the emotional hyperbole in the first (majority) part of your post. The part that I want you to explain is the “plundered by suits” bit. It has a nice ring to it but in the context of your post seems to have a null content. Are you referring to the union “suits” or the employer “suits”?
The other thing I want you to expand on is the lament about the “useless stuff” “stat”. Who is to decide what is useless and whether or not anyone else’s should be buying it? Are you going to deign to tell folks what they should do with their money? Are you suggesting that you will decide what people really need to buy and then restrict them to it? Who will determine the other person’s real “need”?
This is getting to the crux of a matter. Without taking care or pride of one's life, union or no union doesn't matter a whit.
Changing the cast of characters, much could and should be said about mismanagement.
As it is now, it seems folks are into the "selling" racket. Doesn't matter what. Oh! The goose that laid the golden egg is a good example. Folks selling the goose back and forth. All being to impatient too wait for the eggs. Pity the guy who gets the goose last when it's worn out and not laying anymore.
The alternative, which I favor, is to scan about and see what we need. Make that ourselves. Pay those in the loop what they need to frame a decent life.
Here is another bit of whimsy on your part.
“Changing the cast of characters, much could and should be said about mismanagement”
OK! Now how would the union take it if the company wanted to change “the cast of characters” working for them? Which characters should be changed, management or labor? What is the basis for changing them? Should it be based on their time spent at work, or their time away from work as well? Who decides?
I believe that selling is the basis for a free enterprise market place. Companies make things that people want to spend their money on. Are you suggesting that this is not the case?
I think you really need to expand on your “alternative” here. Who decides “what we need”? Who decides what those “in the loop” need “to frame a decent life” and how are you going to mandate this? Are you suggesting a benevolent government regulate all of that? Perhaps something like “equal distribution of wealth”?
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So Wally World is the Retail Mafia?
When you read all the way through that link's story (10 pages) It appears' that way. It was a long read, but pretty informative. And I don't think that Fastcompany.com leans' left or right, either, but I could be wrong. I'll throw it up their one more time, so that you don't have to go back 2 pages in this thread, if you need to dig it out and quote something.
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html?page=0%2C0 (http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html?page=0%2C0)
It offers' some insight as to their business practices' that most never see.
BTW, you guys' do realize that while during the '50's and '60's Unions' made up roughly 22% of the workforce, that it has shrunken to less than 8% today?
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Well, big business does own a fair amount more of the government than the unions do.
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I'm curious Steve - what do you do for a living?
I own a couple of small, humble businesses, I flip property when the market is right, and I am a neophyte investor in the market.
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Well, big business does own a fair amount more of the government than the unions do.
Typical Big Business owners:
(http://www.gsd.k12.ms.us/retirees04.jpg)
Bastiges.
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Typical Big Business owners:
(http://www.gsd.k12.ms.us/retirees04.jpg)
Bastiges.
Looks like thats a picture of some retired school teachers to me.
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Looks like thats a picture of some retired school teachers to me.
Looks like it to me too. Wonder what their retirement funds are invested in?
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Big difference between a schoolteacher who owns 2 shares of MegaCorp (TM) via her 401k, and the CEO of MegaCorp who 'earns' 40 million a year when the company is losing money hand over fist. One is 'big business'... the other is not.
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Big difference between a schoolteacher who owns 2 shares of MegaCorp (TM) via her 401k, and the CEO of MegaCorp who 'earns' 40 million a year when the company is losing money hand over fist. One is 'big business'... the other is not.
To add, potentially losing the retirement 401k of the people in the picture in the process. Good point, Urchin.
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CEOs are responsible to shareholders.
as of Jan, 2006 the SEC requires executives to tell shareholders about stock options and retirement packages, an declare a value of perks.
Shareholders vote to elect CEOs ans Board members.
When secret pension bennies for the CEO came out for Delta, the workforce revolted and the CEO was forced to resign.
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my dad refers to the sams and walmart as the evil empire and he refuses to shop with them because they refuse to pay for damage to damaged car parts mainly headlight becasuse of wind and shoping carts they were blowing out of the holders and they refused unlike everyone else who accepted it but most places clead out the shoping carts a few times a day
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I own a couple of small, humble businesses, I flip property when the market is right, and I am a neophyte investor in the market.
I thought you were in Law Enforcement?
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my dad refers to the sams and walmart as the evil empire and he refuses to shop with them because they refuse to pay for damage to damaged car parts mainly headlight becasuse of wind and shoping carts they were blowing out of the holders and they refused unlike everyone else who accepted it but most places clead out the shoping carts a few times a day
Snowey, most (if not all) stores refuse to accept liability for damage to cars in their parking lots. I wouldn't single out Walmart and call them an evil empire just for that.
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Snowey, most (if not all) stores refuse to accept liability for damage to cars in their parking lots. I wouldn't single out Walmart and call them an evil empire just for that.
For most folks its enough that they are non-union
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Wall Mart is the largest employer in over 20 states ,paying average 7.50$/hour ( 2 gal of gas), no beneffits ,with huge distribution centers ,its own transportation network, is like a metastatic cancer ,draining last blood from a collapsing economy and middle class, outsourcing jobs in Asia ; brings poverty and unemployment here.
This administration is about to destroy in 8 years a great country built in 500 years;war in Iraq, encouraging illegal immigration ,oustourcing everything :manufacturing, military contracts from taxpayers money , i seen on CNN the printing contract for American Passport was given to a Dutch company wich is going to make them Thailand.
But anyway, it's maybe too late to change something, in many economic prognosis the collapse of the stock market and $ it's a matter of months not years.
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This administration is about to destroy in 8 years a great country built in 500 years
Who voted them into office? :rolleyes:
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Wall Mart is the largest employer in over 20 states ,paying average 7.50$/hour ( 2 gal of gas), no beneffits ,with huge distribution centers ,its own transportation network, is like a metastatic cancer ,draining last blood from a collapsing economy and middle class, outsourcing jobs in Asia ; brings poverty and unemployment here.
This administration is about to destroy in 8 years a great country built in 500 years;war in Iraq, encouraging illegal immigration ,oustourcing everything :manufacturing, military contracts from taxpayers money , i seen on CNN the printing contract for American Passport was given to a Dutch company wich is going to make them Thailand.
But anyway, it's maybe too late to change something, in many economic prognosis the collapse of the stock market and $ it's a matter of months not years.
As has been stated before, if you have no skills other than dragging Chinese-made clothes across a scanner or perhaps stocking shelves, why SHOULD you make more than $7.50 an hour? The only reason some places pay minimum wage is that they can't figure out how to pay you any LESS
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As has been stated before, if you have no skills other than dragging Chinese-made clothes across a scanner or perhaps stocking shelves, why SHOULD you make more than $7.50 an hour? The only reason some places pay minimum wage is that they can't figure out how to pay you any LESS
But in order to use that reasoning, Bj, you have to go case-by-case to see if that is the only skillls' those employees' are capable of. There are many that can do more, only don't have the oppurtunity to because of either economic climate, availability of occupations suiting their job skill levels' and potential, or other things. It's kinda unfair to say that, for example, an Oilfield welder who was put out of work due to increasing drilling overseas/Use of imported oil, that can't get a job in the local oil-patch here, had to turn to a wal-mart job because there wasn't anything available for him in his chosen trade. It's not always the workers' fault they can't find something better.
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moray.. as usual.. you tow the party line. I have no idea what I said that set you off but I notice that you did not deny that it was true.
Now we get to the crux.. how much is stocking the shelves worth? greeting people who come in? chasing shopping carts? the mom and pop stores you guys see as alternatives pay a lot less.. the government thinks that the lowest skilled jobs are worth less per hour than walmart pays.
The walmart haters here are being dishonest.. it all boils down to the fact that walmart is thumbing their nose at the unions that the posters love so much.. and.. people flock to the stores and lots of people who had worse jobs before now have a decent job.
lazs
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It's kinda unfair to say that, for example, an Oilfield welder who was put out of work due to increasing drilling overseas/Use of imported oil, that can't get a job in the local oil-patch here, had to turn to a wal-mart job because there wasn't anything available for him in his chosen trade. It's not always the workers' fault they can't find something better.
so Walmart should pay him more money because he used to be an oil welder?
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moray.. as usual.. you tow the party line. I have no idea what I said that set you off but I notice that you did not deny that it was true.
Now we get to the crux.. how much is stocking the shelves worth? greeting people who come in? chasing shopping carts? the mom and pop stores you guys see as alternatives pay a lot less.. the government thinks that the lowest skilled jobs are worth less per hour than walmart pays.
The walmart haters here are being dishonest.. it all boils down to the fact that walmart is thumbing their nose at the unions that the posters love so much.. and.. people flock to the stores and lots of people who had worse jobs before now have a decent job.
lazs
Tow the party line...lol. You don't even know my affiliation, and I'm not democrat. Another assumption you make without merit, simpleton.
I have no fight in this for unions. Join one, don't join one.... it's your choice. Organized labor can hurt workers just as much as it can help. I don't like Walmart because it flies in the face of capitalism. That, and by itself, it is the single largest contributor to our trade deficit. As a single company it is most responsible for the rise of chinese power in the past 25 years. Whole cities in China of 400,000 have sprung up to support factories which supply one company.... WALMART(Frontline, Aug2004). In so many ways it is bad for us... yet people don't see it that way.
Yeah lazs... that new walmart gave prolly 300 people a job. But, when it came to town it took out 20-30 other businesses in your town, which means more than likely, that is a net loss in jobs. The question then is, is it worth it? Getting your cheap towels from China? In the end, I suspect not. We'll all end up working for Walmart... everyone else will be put out of business.
I am completely for THIS country. Outsourcing favors only one part of the equation... the end price. All of the profits move outside of the country of purchase. Add to that, our manufacturing base is abysmal at this point. Should we need to revamp for any major war... forget about it. We're outproduced by at least a dozen other countries now.
It's a simple question of worth... and I don't feel that Walmart is worth it.
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I am most sorry Laz, but this is not what I believe, but what Christians believe.
"I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Matthew 19:24.
Do you not believe that the Lord Jesus Christ spoke true words here??
Whoever composed that quote was a manipulative fool, and you've clearly dodged evolution by quoting it. Plenty of your fellow Christians seem not to be hung up on the supposed evil of wealth. Perhaps it just suits your own ego to believe that a man with money is automatically worse than a man without it.
You should really at least attempt to think for yourself at some point. It's been all the rage since the 16th century.
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I don't like Walmart because it flies in the face of capitalism.
Walmart is the definition of capitalism.
It is the end result of capitalism, much as Rockefeller's Standard Oil was. Much like Carnegie Steel was.
It is the end result of the gaining of power through capitalistic means. It is what Marx saw in the industrial revolution that led him to the idea of throwing the baby with the bathwater and throw away capitalism altogether.
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moray... can you link me to a place that tells about how many people lost jobs because of walmart? All I see is the place growing and the wages got higher in the mom and pop stores.
What have I said that you don't agree with? I see people buying affordable goods there. I see poor people living better than they would if they had to spend more on the same goods... often.. they end up buying things they don't need but.. they are poor for a reason aren't they?
I am still trying to figure out what all the walmart haters are so upset about and all I can see is the fact that they don't like walmart winning out over the unions.
lazs
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Wally World opened a Super Center in the small town about 10 miles from us here on the lake.
Population in this little town is about 1300 to 1400.
The draw to this little town was not the town itself, but the increasing of the surrounding area commuters to the Big D. Now it has drawn even more commuters in. A new housing project has been approved and annexed for a 1300+ housing project. That will just be the start.
It sucks from a personal standpoint. A quiet, low key area being transformed and not for the better.
We had two Wallys in the area before this. One about 15 miles, the other around 20. Was fine for me when I needed them Oh so necessary Wally World items. :)
Now instead of everything being laid back and a country atmosphere, it`s rush , push, shove etc. You can spot the Dallasites a mile away in your rearview as they scramble for position in the great highway race.
Insane would be a good word. The concrete pounders are ruining the place. They move from the city to be in the country................then the first thing they do is try to change the country to the big city. It sucks.
Now since Wally`s three ring circus has come to town, the side acts are following. In the last few months Wal-Mart Supercenter, AutoZone, McDonald's, O'Reilly Auto Parts, NAPA Auto Parts, Taco Mayo, Video Giant, all have built and located here with several more to come.
The Mom and Pop family small businesses are gone with the exception of Willy`s Westaurant.
Can`t touch that. :)
The personal friendly touch places are gone that made it so nice to live in this area.
Crime has went BOOM.
The town wasn`t ready for it. It is unfriggenbelievable to get in a total traffic jam in a town with 130+ population.
Only good thing that`s came from it from a personal standpoint is that it put the idiots that run Brookshires here on their knees.
Like I said...it sucks personaly.
Is Wally World in the know businesswise? You betcha they are.
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The town wasn`t ready for it. It is unfriggenbelievable to get in a total traffic jam in a town with 130+ population.
If the locals didn't want it, why did the locals issue a building permit?
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Holden,
Don't forget the wally world thugs that go out into the surrounding area and force people to go in the store and buy things. It's just terrible. :O
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so Walmart should pay him more money because he used to be an oil welder?
No. Because in this case (and it's someone I know) He had a wife and a baby daughter to support. If Wal-mart were to pay more, they would be getting the money back eventually anyway, because those $7.50 an hour workers, if they are to get a raise to anywhere from 10-15$ an hour, can now also be customers (read: consumer base.)
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No. Because in this case (and it's someone I know) He had a wife and a baby daughter to support.
To each according to his need... This is a good business model?
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To each according to his need... This is a good business model?
Now, the second part of the story.
He's not a personal friend of mine, rather, the husband of one of my wife's friends. So anyway, we had them over for a BBQ, and were sitting down talking about things' after dinner. No matter how many attempts' to keep the conversation on the cheery side, eventually all the financial woes come out- Having trouble paying rent on their apartment, no real health insurance (Wally-mart threw a clinic for him and his co-workers' on how to get on Medical; that was as far as the company health plan went) He needed to pay the registration on his car, Diapers' were eating them out of house and home, etc. etc. At the time, I was still driving a Vacuum-truck in the oil patch. Since he had a clean record, I helped him get his Class A. He got on with the same outfit I worked for, that was paying $12 dollars an hour in '95, and you worked AT LEAST 60 hours per week( I wound up working 80+ most of the time) so you had quite a bit of overtime. Now, for the finale' to the story. My wife's hubby still talked to some of the people he worked at Wal-mart with. The day he quit (and he gave notice, too) They actually asked him to reconsider. They thought he was bluffing about leaving, up to the day he walked in and handed his blue vest to the manager. They thought he was trying to get a raise; They of course did not want to give in, and decided to call his bluff. He said they offered him some kind of assistant Mgr. spot, at something like $12 an hour. He said he was happy to say no. He just wished he could have bent them over some way...But he's really too nice a guy to do that. He wouldn't just up and not show up and quit when I suggested it.
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My wife's hubby still talked to some of the people he worked at Wal-mart with.
Your wife's hubby ...is... is you?
Now, the second part of the story.
He's not a personal ...a bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with selling cheap chinese crap... They actually asked him to reconsider. They thought ...a bunch of stuff that sounds like he had a bad experience, like the last job I had... He wouldn't just up and not show up and quit when I suggested it.
OK
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You know there are plenty of other employers who also pay minimal wages and also do not provide benefits. Some of them deliberately hire part time help almost exclusively to do that. You ought to look into your friendly neighborhood bank and see what their hiring practices are for an example.
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However, the Vatican just officially added several new social sins a couple of weeks ago, after a very long study on the subject of Sin by the head of Sin and Penance at the Vatican. This was in the news a lot earlier this month, so hopefully you heard about it in the press.
Oooops, Are we all Catholic again? I missed the Memo.
I have to say though, this must be a troll. Good popcorn thread though.
-Sik
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If the locals didn't want it, why did the locals issue a building permit?
I said the town wasn`t ready for it.
Streets, layout, etc. It`s caused a friggen traffic nightmare in a small town.
Also the locals from around here are not in the city limits. They had no say in the matter.
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Your wife's hubby ...is... is you?
OK
DOH! Fingertied. I meant, "Wife's friends' hubby."
And for the second part, how labor in this country is handled, DOES have something to do with selling cheap Chinese made crap, if its' at Wal-Mart.
They lost what they thought was a valuable employee, because they underestimated him. The raise/promotion offer was a dollar short and a day late, anyway.
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In I-Tard-Glok's world, all business should be run based on his narrow sense of morality.
So tell me, Mr Values, how much money have you donated to this lady whose cause you are championing?
I've already documented in this thread things that I have been doing to help the disadvantaged and disabled where I live.
You want to do the same??
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It is self evident to anyone with a modicum of business acumen. Based on your statement, you do not fall in this category.
But morality has nothing at all to do with business.
Do you think that Jesus was in it for the money?
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You're right morality and business are usually mutually exclusive.
Jesus may not have been in it for the money, but most organised religions who trade in his name are.
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:noid
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Damm was hoping that soon lazs or rpm would post and divert this thread to a librul handout, gun control, Bush is the Devil or something about Nazis.
Crap... well the night is still young...
*popcorn anyone?*
Mac
I have already started a new thread about Gun Control.
(http://www.protestwarrior.com/images/misc/guns/guns_11.jpg)
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ltardglock... I don't know what jesus christ said.. I wasn't there.
Then are you saying that you do not believe in the Holy Bible? Do you instead perhaps prefer to quote the Koran? The United States of America was founded on Judeo-Christian values, in case you have not studied American history. Our country would be vastly different, if it was not for the Bible.
Or do you simply believe that morality is irrelevant? If not, then what do you base your concept of morality on? Just whatever you think is convenient to believe?
I get nervous when you start saying "WE NEED TO.." on anything.. you are not a "we". You are not allowed to tell me what I need to do or who I give my money to.
What the heck kind of person are you Laz? I am really getting sick and tired here of you continuing to put words into my mouth that I never said here in this thread. I never said "WE NEED TO" do anything. I never said that you had to give money to anyone. These are complete and total fabrications on your part here.
You do know that lying is considered to be a universally accepted sin, don't you? Even many people who don't believe in the Bible accept that as being true. Then why do you repeatedly engage in it here, and continue to make these false statements about what I have said?
You really are a shameless man. I truly pity you.
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Whoever composed that quote was a manipulative fool, and you've clearly dodged evolution by quoting it. Plenty of your fellow Christians seem not to be hung up on the supposed evil of wealth. Perhaps it just suits your own ego to believe that a man with money is automatically worse than a man without it.
You should really at least attempt to think for yourself at some point. It's been all the rage since the 16th century.
Making money is not the problem. It is being selfish, and not caring about the unfortunate and disadvantaged people in our society, that is immoral.
Bill Gates is doing all kinds of great things with his wealth, for example. He has stated that he plans to give away almost all of his fortune to his charitable foundation, before he dies.
You should try volunteering in your own community, and see how good it makes you feel.
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Damm was hoping that soon lazs or rpm would post and divert this thread to a librul handout, gun control, Bush is the Devil or something about Nazis.
Crap... well the night is still young...
*popcorn anyone?*
Mac
Sorry, Mac. I've been too busy cashing those checks from my waste dump. Gots to have priorities, ya know.
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RPM, you do realise you just made baby Jesus cry, right?
I need some more butter on my popcorn...
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You know there are plenty of other employers who also pay minimal wages and also do not provide benefits. Some of them deliberately hire part time help almost exclusively to do that.
That is very true. I know of a sporting goods store that hires people for 30 hours per week, so they can avoid paying any benefits.
Even some companies that do provide benefits, are now only offering medical insurance to their employee, and not to their family.
Another common tactic is to hire "temporary" help. For you can work them 40 or more hours a week, and again avoid paying them any benefits too.
With all of these practices going on today, the Federal Government is going to have to step in at some point and offer a national medical insurance program.
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RPM, you do realise you just made baby Jesus cry, right?
I need some more butter on my popcorn...
Altho it is distracting and dangerous, I do love cashing checks.
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You're right morality and business are usually mutually exclusive.
Jesus may not have been in it for the money, but most organised religions who trade in his name are.
There are many ministers who preach that Christ wanted us all to be rich. But that the only way to accomplish that, is to tithe 20% of your gross income to their Church. The Church leaders then go off on retreats to the Caribbean or Mediterranean, to do God's work.
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Wow.
This thread has definitely taken a turn for the surreal.
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Oooops, Are we all Catholic again? I missed the Memo.
I have to say though, this must be a troll. Good popcorn thread though.
-Sik
No, I am most definitely not Catholic. That church is far too backwards for me personally.
However, it is still the original Christian church, and needs to be respected for that. I believe that there are many good Catholics. And certainly the concepts of what is sin needed to be updated. So at least some progressives in the church managed to get these changes past.
But I could name so many things where the Catholic church is so much in the wrong today. A similar progressive movement in the church tried to get the rules about allowing condom use changed, since so many Catholics in Africa are all dying of AIDS. However, the church bureaucracy defeated this attempt, despite the fact that it had the potential to help stop the spread of AIDS, and thus save countless human lives.
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Hey Diablo, guess what's on Encore West right now. :aok
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Alright, alright, alright!!!
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I keep getting older, they stay the same age.
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RPM, you do realise you just made baby Jesus cry, right?
I need some more butter on my popcorn...
You clearly do not want to risk making the baby Jesus Angry:
(http://www.ikvader.nl/files/screaming%20baby.bmp)
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He's clearly upset about being told there is no more ammunition.
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I, for one, never saw this thread going this direction. :rolleyes:
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Can someone give me directions to a store that carries maps.
I must have taken a wrong turn somewhere. I was looking for the Wally World thread.
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This is the Wally World thread.
So far we have determined that Wally World is the retail mafia employing methods perfected by two thousand years of religious practice and that baby Jesus get mad if you don't shop there. :)
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ltardgock... no I do not believe in the bible except that it is a divinely inspired book.. written by man. Jesus christ may or may not have existed and may or may not have been the son of god. I have no way of knowing these things. Your smug holier than tho "burn in hell sinners:" attitude makes me just as sick as any muslim "convert or die" diatribe.
Your bragging about your good works is sickening to me. I have helped people all my life and it is none of your business in what way. I never crammed my religious doctrine down their throats while I do it either. Bragging about charity is no charity at all... making other people pay for charity is no charity at all.
Your ranting here gives christians a bad rep.. I can see why the hate for christians exists in some people after listening to your rants.
Your demand that walmart.. and really.. pass the price on to the rest of us.. do what you think is right even tho they have played by the rules is disgusting socialism to me.
It makes no difference how deserving I feel someone is. I can help or not but.. I have no right to tell anyone else that they have to pay.
Your picture of the burning man was childish and offensive and on a par with any "convert or die" crap from any other backwards fundamentalist religion. If heaven is full of people like you then I don't want to go there.
lazs
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However, it is still the original Christian church, and needs to be respected for that.
Wow. (http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/3927727/2/istockphoto_3927727_fishing_hook_and_bobber.jpg)
-Sik
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Wow. (http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/3927727/2/istockphoto_3927727_fishing_hook_and_bobber.jpg)
-Sik
Do you know of one that is older?
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Do you know of one that is older?
Sure.
-Sik
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I'm curious Steve - what do you do for a living?
He was a life guard till some blue kid got him fired :D
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Sure.
Way to back it up.
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Just saw on the news that Wally world has dropped the lawsuit and is pursuing a process to change it's policy on this issue.
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The Power of the O'CLUB!
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Just saw on the news that Wally world has dropped the lawsuit and is pursuing a process to change it's policy on this issue.
Cool! You got a linky?
(EDIT:) Nevermind, found something right here:http://kennmakk.wordpress.com/2008/04/01/wal-mart-caves-to-the-pressure/ (http://kennmakk.wordpress.com/2008/04/01/wal-mart-caves-to-the-pressure/)
Something odd, though-I went to AP's (Associated Press) website, put both 'Debbie Shank' and 'Wal-Mart' into the search bar, and couldn't find anything about this story. WTF? :huh
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http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/01/wal-mart-tells-brain-damaged-woman-keep-the-money/
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The Power of the O'CLUB!
Can I get an amen!!! :)
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Can I get an amen!!! :)
"Hallejulah" would be better.
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It's nice to see something positive happen for that family. :) Any corporation is all about checking the block when you get up to that level... nice to see them look at the people instead of the numbers in this instance.
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It's nice to see something positive happen for that family. :) Any corporation is all about checking the block when you get up to that level... nice to see them look at the people instead of the numbers in this instance.
Yes it is. Hopefully, setting some kind of precedent.
I wonder if they will give Airmen Thornton back his job?
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It's nice to see something positive happen for that family. :) Any corporation is all about checking the block when you get up to that level... nice to see them look at the people instead of the numbers in this instance.
I'll ask again. If that woman had repaid the money she owed, how would her life had changed? anyone?
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It's probably of greater benefit to her family, who will be caring for her, than for her. What can put your mind at greater ease than the knowledge that you can provide for your family tomorrow, and tomorrow's tomorrow? Not saying that any portion of the remainder of her life will be wonderful as a result of this, but it does put her family in a better position to care for her.
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It's probably of greater benefit to her family, who will be caring for her, than for her. What can put your mind at greater ease than the knowledge that you can provide for your family tomorrow, and tomorrow's tomorrow? Not saying that any portion of the remainder of her life will be wonderful as a result of this, but it does put her family in a better position to care for her.
she's in a nursing home.
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Steve, you do realise her family has to pay for her care? From what I understand the money they recieved was for to pay for her care for the rest of her life. If I'm missing anything let me know.
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TxMom, RPM and DiabloTX seeing how lazs the spokes person for "we", "they" and "Texans" I'm no longer allowed to play with ya'll.
:cry <--- Baby Jesus
Mac
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Naw, Mac. Lazs is a Kalifornian. You know all the fruits and nuts are on the west coast. You can still play in our backyard. :aok
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Hell RPM I like you, TxMom and Diablo. Hell if Mexico ever attacked Texas I know of thousands of Okies that would help defend Texas without being asked twice, I'm sure ya'll know that also.
But lazs' holiness and ability to speak for "they", "we" and "Texans" kinda thru me for a loop to where I'm nolonger authorized to play, incite or rib a Texan on any manner.
Then it came to mind that Kalifornication has no close States to rival with well other than Mexico.
My question is can a Librul Kalifornician InDUHvidual acually dictate to the States of Texas and to the State of Oklahoma wether they can partake in riveraly between respectable States?
I know Kaliforians are into the tree huggin fish save'n stuff but have you guys and girls seen any Kalifornication attempt to rescue Texas lately? We in Oklahoma has seen nothing.
Now don't get me wrong on this, kinda out on a limb.... do you expecpt that lazs inherent rights allows him to set laws in Texas and ban State to State rivary between Texas and Oklahoma?
Shouldn't be a political member within in the Legislation Branch of office in either Texas or Oklahoma that would make rivary permitted between our States without the outside of Kalifornia becoming involved?
I'd love to do a working dinner with RPM, TXMom and Diablo to ratify and introduce to the House a Clean Course of Rivary for Texas and Oklahoma. Make it official so all the whining tree huggin, snail darter savin Libruls from Kalifornia would just leave us the Hell alone.
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<cough> <cough>
A few of us Texans around Mac.
Anyway...if it will help......................... ....
"Did you hear the one about the Okies throwing sticks of dynamite across the Red River into Texas?"
No, what happened?
The Texans ignited the dynamite and threw them back to the Okies. Two married couples and two pairs of brothers & sisters were injured. (total of 4 people).
............................. and they didn`t even shop at Wally`s. :)
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Thought I should throw this link up.
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/wal-mart-drops-fight-against-woman/20080402064509990001 (http://news.aol.com/story/_a/wal-mart-drops-fight-against-woman/20080402064509990001)
God bless the power of modern media. I hadn't noticed that the original award netted an almost 60% windfall for the attorneys. God bless tort reform.
I'll be watching for the class action suit to follow.
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mac.. spent time in both states and know people from both.. it doesn't change the fact that it is you who are the one with Texas envy tho... you are the one who always brings up the "rivalry".
I know it exists but it is nothing like the constant whining you do. If it were.. the Texans would be starting a lot of it. I think they are content to just know how inferior you guys are without making a big show of it.
lazs
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she's in a nursing home.
And due to the generous hearts of the folks who run that nursing home, and their understanding of the circumstances of this poor family, they are providing their services for free, right?
*Providing for* would naturally include payment to the nursing home that is caring for her daily living.
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WAAAAAA LAZ is mean to me and I dont like it!! help me texans!
LOL
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And due to the generous hearts of the folks who run that nursing home, and their understanding of the circumstances of this poor family, they are providing their services for free, right?
*Providing for* would naturally include payment to the nursing home that is caring for her daily living.
Nice try on twisting this but denied. no, the govt was footing the bill and will continue to do so. So, I ask again, what changed besides that now a Pandora's box has opened for Walmart employees to expect Walmart to pay for other "tragic" circumstances that they have nothign to do with?
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Steve, you do realise her family has to pay for her care? From what I understand the money they recieved was for to pay for her care for the rest of her life. If I'm missing anything let me know.
Yes, you are missing that the patient is not private pay, the govt is picking up the tab.
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By the way, here's some interesting facts about the case, a case many of you argued about in this thread but were almost completely uninformed about since you didn't bother to learn:
Wal-Mart spokesman Marty Hires said
the company isn't sure whether it will actually pursue the lawsuit now that it's been filed;
Winning their case didn't mean they intended to subrogate the funds.
Lawyers familiar with insurance law say such measures are not unusual for health plans that, like Wal-Mart's, are self-financed -- that is,funded by employers and/or employee unions -- to recoup medical expenses.
This means that if Walmart chooses to not recoup its losses, the other employees may very well pay the difference.
The cost to care for her in the future is going to be literally millions.
So, again, what is going to dramatically change is she loses the 400+K, which is what her contract calls for?
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Yeah, I'm missing the part on where the government is picking up the entire tab for her care. I'll go back through & look at that again later to see where I missed that at.
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Yeah, I'm missing the part on where the government is picking up the entire tab for her care. I'll go back through & look at that again later to see where I missed that at.
It's not mentioned in the link from the OP. My point exactly. Your argument is based entirely on one little info piece that fails to mention important facets of the case.
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It's not mentioned in the link from the OP. My point exactly. Your argument is based entirely on one little info piece that fails to mention important facets of the case.
Actually, I think you may have me confused with someone else in the thread. My posts showed that I was going to continue to shop at Wally, regardless. Then I didn't post anything except the "awe, that's nice" post here on this page. What point was I arguing that you're referring to?
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And due to the generous hearts of the folks who run that nursing home, and their understanding of the circumstances of this poor family, they are providing their services for free, right?
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:rofl
A good ole Wally World thread seems to trigger the meltdown endorphins in some.
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Oh, I see. You're just reiterating what you already said a second ago. I thought you were onto something different. Yeah, same answer that I gave just a second ago also:
Yeah, I'm missing the part on where the government is picking up the entire tab for her care. I'll go back through & look at that again later to see where I missed that at.
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She's on SSI now and will be on medicaid when her savings runs out. Is this hard to understand?
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Oh, I see. You're just reiterating what you already said a second ago. I thought you were onto something different. Yeah, same answer that I gave just a second ago also:
Yeah, I'm missing the part on where the government is picking up the entire tab for her care. I'll go back through & look at that again later to see where I missed that at.
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spot on.
my area of practice is specific to entertainment law....but you sir, as Meatloaf would say....took the words right outta' my mouth.
Her contract stipulated that if she collected damages on a lawsuit, the company had the right to recoup whatever they spent on her health expenses stemming from the accident in question.
Not nice, not generous, but there was no lying here either. It was in plain language, and knowing this, her lawyer should have pressed for more money from the lawsuit to cover those expenses. The judgement may well have taken this into account, and compensated her accordingly. Unfortunate woman, careless lawyer... In fact, I bet about a thousand other lawyers would gladly take on her original firm in a malpractice case to pull the fees back out of them.
If you expect any corporation to disregard their own rules, or act human, as you say, then you're being too optimistic. Their main purpose on this earth is to make money, and they fulfill that purpose very efficiently.
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As more and more health plans turn insurance into a loan and kick responsibility over to the government, I would think that cutting out the middleman will become a more popular opinion.
shamus
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Just to play devil's advocate...
I gotta say that WalMart has done far, far more for patients with crap insurance than just about any corporation I can think of. For years the generic drug companies had avoided competition, and priced their stuff for $10-15 less than the very high brand name prices. Wally broke the logjam by pressing for the bulk discounts that led to the $4 prescription program. Unless you've seen it first hand, you can have absolutely NO IDEA how that's been a literal life saver for many, many people.
What torques me off is that the exact same drug that was selling for $110 per month as a prescription can go over the counter and sell for the equivalent of $30-40 per month, still as a branded product. I understand the economics from the drug maker's standpoint, but when I'm talking with an elderly patient on 8 drugs -- or a young patient with genetic high cholesterol and no drug coverage -- those sky-high prices leave real people with choices that are stark, and outcomes generally weren't pretty.
The Bush Medicare drug plan has been a disaster for many people who fell through the cracks. Now that the Government has stepped in, most retirees who HAD drug coverage now have much, much less help..and med costs that are far higher than they were with their good retirement insurance. At the same time, the premiums (and the "donut hole" that makes people essentially start with a new deductable when certain cost thresholds are reached) make the medicare drug plans pretty pricey, even for those who had nothing at all before. Lastly, once the government program showed up, the drug companies backed way off on their compassionate use free med programs...and since technology is shifting the drug sales business away from office samples (and instead relies on TV ads plus bar coded 1 month cards, one to a customer) the medication safety net that I used to provide from my office sample cabinet is gone too.
And all that's to say that for doctors and patients that are paying attention, the low cost programs that WalMart started are major, major public health positives. They've helped my people so much that they're going to have to go really, really far into the dark side before I'll start slamming them.
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Walmart, the number two donator in the world, gave more too charity than anyone else exept Bill and Linda Gates, for the last five years runing, just caved and changed there policy to a case by case basis, O and she gets too keep the money!
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The $4.00 drug plan was a marketing/political wonder, the guy that came up with that is a genius.
I mean defuse the reputation of being a non caring corporation and come up with the finest loss-leader program in recent memory.
When the other retailers saw the results, they fell all over themselves to match it.
It sure was not altruistic though.
shamus
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The $4.00 drug plan was a marketing/political wonder, the guy that came up with that is a genius.
I mean defuse the reputation of being a non caring corporation and come up with the finest loss-leader program in recent memory.
When the other retailers saw the results, they fell all over themselves to match it.
It sure was not altruistic though.
shamus
Altrusitic? Never even considered that might be the motivation. I'm sure that just like their DVD prices, their drug prices have a foundation in cold hard business.
Fact remains though that they were the ones who did it. But don't underestimate the impact! It was more than a loss leader program...it stuck a knife in the heart of traditional pharmacy business model. For the longest time, pharmacies barely kept ahead when they moved branded products. They made a good chunk of their profit margin by padding out the generics, because there was more wiggle room. The market was set up to allow everyone at every step of the generic chain harvest a bit more cash than they could get out of a purely competitive system; Wal Marts purchasing power essentially forced the generic manufacturers to cut that out and price things way closer to the actual cost. And yeah, I honestly think that for many of the meds on that list Wal Mart is pretty close to breaking even. Don't forget that the generic manufacturers don't have to pay one thin dime to develop or market products. All they have to do is basic industrial chemistry with high quality control, in a business that has highly mature and automated techniques.
Even before Walmart's move, some meds were selling in that price range. They were mostly older meds in established, stable fields (like thyroid meds, which went for $8-10 per month brand name). Wal Mart took that those principles and forced the generic manufacturers to apply them to other compounds, and while it helps their own pharmacy business the major thrust was probably a vigorous attack on large pharmacy only chains like CVS, etc.
But I don't care about that. What I care about is that the net effect of WalMarts cutthroat aggressive business model is that common people can afford medications that prevent catastrophic disease.