Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: bcadoo on August 06, 2008, 12:09:39 AM
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http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gpkdpV0pGSS_ozv30DC1F1QkVd5wD92CHCNG5
"Texas executes Mexican-born killer
HUNTSVILLE, Texas (AP) — Texas has executed Mexican-born condemned prisoner Jose Medellin for the rape and murder of two teenage girls 15 years ago.
The state carried out the execution late Tuesday night after the U.S. Supreme Court rejected his request for a reprieve in a split vote.
The 33-year-old Medellin had claimed he was denied treaty-guaranteed help from the Mexican consulate when he was arrested.
Texas authorities say he never invoked his consular rights until four years after he was arrested. By then, he had been convicted and condemned for participating in the attack on 16-year-old Elizabeth Pena and 14-year-old Jennifer Ertman."
Texas has not forgotten that it was once a nation and that we don't need the world court to tell us how to treat rapists and murderers.
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The World Court?
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I still remember when that crime was committed.
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Hope they finish the rest of his fellow rapist murdering Buddy's off too!
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The World Court?
Yeah...that's what they call it.
"Mexico opposes the death penalty and has used the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations to try to block the executions of Mr. Medellín and 50 other Mexicans in the United States. Moments after the execution, Mexico sent a formal diplomatic protest to Washington.
Twice in the last five years, the International Court of Justice, at the Hague, has said hearings should be held to determine if the 51 trials were fair.
Worried about fallout for Americans abroad, the State Department, the attorney general and the White House all urged Texas to delay the execution. "
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The World Court?
World Court, aye.
It's another one of those situations where the emerging World Government wants to take away the sovereignty of the USA. :furious
Nothing to worry about.
For now. :uhoh
Regards,
Sun
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080803/us_nm/usa_mexico_execution_dc
Texas set to defy World Court with execution
DALLAS (Reuters) - Texas is set to defy the World Court and anger Mexico on Tuesday by executing a Mexican national who was not informed of his right to consular services after his arrest.
Texas, by far America's most active death penalty state, condemned Jose Medellin for the 1993 rape and murder of 16-year-old Elizabeth Pena in Houston. Another girl was killed in the vicious gang-related assault but Medellin was convicted only of Pena's murder.
The World Court last month ordered the U.S. government to "take all measures necessary" to halt the upcoming execution of five Mexicans until it makes a final judgment in a dispute over suspects' rights.
Medellin is the first of those scheduled to be put to death and the only one so far with a 2008 execution date, according to the Death Penalty Information Center.
Alison Castle, a spokeswoman for Republican Gov. Rick Perry, said the state's Board of Pardons and Paroles was considering the case and the governor would most likely make his decision based on its recommendation on Tuesday.
She emphasized the brutal nature of the crime.
"It's very important for the citizens of Texas to remember that Jose Medellin ... brutally and viciously gang raped, stomped, kicked, slashed, strangled and murdered two teenage girls in Houston," Castle said.
"The World Court has no jurisdiction here in Texas. We're concerned about following Texas law and that's what we're doing."......
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"The World Court has no jurisdiction here in Texas. We're concerned about following Texas law and that's what we're doing."......
That is as it should be.
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Way to go.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080803/us_nm/usa_mexico_execution_dc
"The World Court has no jurisdiction here in Texas. We're concerned about following Texas law and that's what we're doing."......
President George W. Bush directed Texas to comply with a World Court ruling in 2004 mandating review of the cases of Medellin and other Mexicans in U.S. prisons awaiting execution. The U.S. Supreme Court said in March Bush's action had exceeded his authority.
Interesting that the President wanted to have the world courts decision reviewed. Strange for a former Texas Governor.
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Interesting that the President wanted to have the world courts decision reviewed. Strange for a former Texas Governor.
Don't forget his father was pushing the New World Order when he was President.
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Don't forget his father was pushing the New World Order when he was President.
Forgot the Skull & Bones connection.
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Forgot the Skull & Bones connection.
Also the Bilderbergs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Group).
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One of the positives of living in Texas. Stay out of Austin and you'll love it. (Austin crime is awful, you can get like 20 years for poisoning a tree, but only 10 for murdering someone :rolleyes: )
<<<Proud Texan. :rock :rock
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One of the positives of living in Texas. Stay out of Austin and you'll love it.
Austin is a great place to visit. A lot of Texas history there and lots to see.
You just have to weave your way through the yups posing as hipsters much as in a lot of cities, but it`s well worth the effort.
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One of the positives of living in Texas. Stay out of Austin and you'll love it. (Austin crime is awful, you can get like 20 years for poisoning a tree, but only 10 for murdering someone :rolleyes: )
<<<Proud Texan. :rock :rock
Typical college town.
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I wonder if this will make it more difficult to extradite criminals from Mexico back to the US?
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I wonder if this will make it more difficult to extradite criminals from Mexico back to the US?
One of their people murdered a Border Patrol agent not too long ago and the Mexican government let him go about a month ago. It doesn't matter what the Mexican government thinks, they're not going to respect our laws regardless.
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To bad it took 15 years. Look up Judge Roy Bean :D
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World Court, aye.
It's another one of those situations where the emerging World Government wants to take away the sovereignty of the USA. :furious
Y'know 'cause it's not like the US has ever tried to interfere with the justice system of other nations in the past or anything. :rolleyes:
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Whats Ron Whites joke about the death penalty in Texas, people are trying to banish it Texas is putting in an expressway :D
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Whats Ron Whites joke about the death penalty in Texas, people are trying to banish it Texas is putting in an expressway :D
“Other states are trying to abolish the death penalty. My states’ puttin’ in an express lane.”
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http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gpkdpV0pGSS_ozv30DC1F1QkVd5wD92CHCNG5
"Texas executes Mexican-born killer
HUNTSVILLE, Texas (AP) — Texas has executed Mexican-born condemned prisoner Jose Medellin for the rape and murder of two teenage girls 15 years ago.
What a waste of taxpayers $$ feeding and providing shelter for a criminal 15 years waiting on death row when are many good souls homeless starving to death daily.
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What a waste of taxpayers $$ feeding and providing shelter for a criminal 15 years waiting on death row when are many good souls homeless starving to death daily.
Agreed!! They should have injected the guy allllong time ago.
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The average time for an inmate to be executed, once assigned to death row, in Texas, is 10.2 years. I think the longest time an inmate was on death row was 24 years. It is disgusting. Should not be more than 10 days.
Just a tidbit. Texas, California, and Florida (not necessarily in that order) lead the states with the most number of inmates on death row. Texas leads in the number of executions.
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At least Texas and Florida carry out their executions. Death row inmates in California are more likely to die from old age than they are lethal injection.
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The average time for an inmate to be executed, once assigned to death row, in Texas, is 10.2 years. I think the longest time an inmate was on death row was 24 years. It is disgusting. Should not be more than 10 days.
Just a tidbit. Texas, California, and Florida (not necessarily in that order) lead the states with the most number of inmates on death row. Texas leads in the number of executions.
Ten days max seems fare enough. If it was I think the crime rate may drop and the prisons wouldn’t be full.
<--- Gold member :O
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Over 100 innocent men have been cleared from death row in the past 30 years. Almost none without private assistance. 10 days could be tragic.
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SHARP SALUTE TEXAS!!! From your neighbor to the North East. :salute
(http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/1597/usa2cn0.gif)
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Ten days max seems fare enough. If it was I think the crime rate may drop and the prisons wouldn’t be full.
<--- Gold member :O
I don't think the death penalty is much of a deterrant for these types of individuals there going to do what they do knowing full well what may be waiting for them. Other country's process them a lot quicker & guess what? idiots still keep murdering people. That aside it still is the most certain way they will never commit a crime again.
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Over 100 innocent men have been cleared from death row in the past 30 years. Almost none without private assistance. 10 days could be tragic.
When it is very clear that the scum did the murder, 10 -14 days is enough.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again:
Thou shall not kill.
I've lost a lot of faith in organized religion but that is one thing I will always agree on. The death penalty makes us no better then the criminals. It doesn't bring closure, it isn't 100% fool proof that we won't kill an innocent person, and the practice sickens me.
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I'm against death penalty.
(flame away)
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It doesn't bring closure,
One of the women, a best friend of one of the deceased victims that named her own daughter after the victim, vehemently disagrees with you on this point.
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I'm against death penalty.
(flame away)
You are entitled to your opinion. The one thing the death penalty does do is solve the problem of repeat offenders.
It sickens me to have had to support this monster for the last 15 years. I think higher of my tax dollars.
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One of the women, a best friend of one of the deceased victims that named her own daughter after the victim, vehemently disagrees with you on this point.
I know 2 people who have lost loved ones. One of them went to watch the executions of the guilty. He still has nightmares and regrets pushing to have the execution go through. The second followed the advice not to attend but has also become a firm opponent of the death penalty.
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You are entitled to your opinion. The one thing the death penalty does do is solve the problem of repeat offenders.
It sickens me to have had to support this monster for the last 15 years. I think higher of my tax dollars.
You know after all the legal battles and appeals it costs more to execute then imprison for life right Skuzzy? If it is the cost issue you should re examine your position.
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The appeals do not stop when they are sentenced to life either. That cost does not go away.
My position is just fine.
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I'm against death penalty.
(flame away)
One of these days I'm going to post a picture of myself at a Gun Control Rally with a pro-Life sign in one hand, one in the other announcing my support for allowing Gay and Lesbian marriage, while wearing a giant "I love FDR!" button just to watch the board Conservatives spaz out.
:D
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The one thing the death penalty does do is solve the problem of repeat offenders.
Wouldn't imprisonment for life with no parole do the same?
I think higher of my tax dollars.
It's very hard for me to put price on human life.
As for the costs of imprisonment, they should work and pay for 'boarding'. The rest should go into the victims fund.
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One of these days I'm going to post a picture of myself at a Gun Control Rally with a pro-Life sign in one hand, one in the other announcing my support for allowing Gay and Lesbian marriage, while wearing a giant "I love FDR!" button just to watch the board Conservatives spaz out.
:D
So you're saying that you're not a republican or a moderate dem...
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I'm just plain moderate and think BOTH Parties need to be beat upside the head with the Constitution.
The Conservatives are just more fun to bait. They get so nasty. :D
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Wouldn't imprisonment for life with no parole do the same?
Not at all. No parole simply means the inmate does not get a parole hearing. It does not prevent them from filing appeal after appeal to the courts.
It's very hard for me to put price on human life.
As for the costs of imprisonment, they should work and pay for 'boarding'. The rest should go into the victims fund.
I have no trouble at all placing a price on some. This particular monster? I would toss in $5 to help cover the $85.00 for the drugs used in the lethal injection. I bet that hat could be filled pretty quickly.
EDIT: It is easy for me. You see, once this monster did what he did to those two girls, he ceased being a human being. I would not hesitate to put down a rabid dog and I consider a rabid dog more human than this guy.
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Not at all. No parole simply means the inmate does not get a parole hearing. It does not prevent them from filing appeal after appeal to the courts.
I have no trouble at all placing a price on some. This particular monster? I would toss in $5 to help cover the $85.00 for the drugs used in the lethal injection. I bet that hat could be filled pretty quickly.
EDIT: It is easy for me. You see, once this monster did what he did to those two girls, he ceased being a human being. I would not hesitate to put down a rabid dog and I consider a rabid dog more human than this guy.
I got $5 for the hat. Remember, in Texas, we're putting in an express lane!!
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The appeals do not stop when they are sentenced to life either. That cost does not go away.
My position is just fine.
The cost of appeals and court time in a death penalty case are exponentially higher than a life without parole case.
There's no going back when someone is dead. I need to go dig up the old thread about this. Some people told me they really didn't care if a few innocents were killed along the way. I was shocked.
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EDIT: You see, once this monster did what he did to those two girls, he ceased being a human being. I would not hesitate to put down a rabid dog and I consider a rabid dog more human than this guy.
I see your point. I was thinking more of what death penalty does to image and perception of authority and the whole legal (justice) system as such.
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Well, I fully support the death penalty, the guy has had many chances in life to correct what he's done, he didn't.
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The cost of appeals and court time in a death penalty case are exponentially higher than a life without parole case.<snip>
Sorry, but the guy doing life in prison is going to continue appeals until the court finally says stop. Quite frankly we need more judges to put an end to the never ending appeal process anyway. It has been far too abused. Give then a 3 strike rule. That will end that merry-go-round.
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Sorry, but the guy doing life in prison is going to continue appeals until the court finally says stop. Quite frankly we need more judges to put an end to the never ending appeal process anyway. It has been far too abused. Give then a 3 strike rule. That will end that merry-go-round.
But it is still much less costly than the process to put someone to death. I'm mearly discrediting your notion that your tax dollars are better spent without the death penalty, being that is what you mentioned as a reason for it.
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You have not discredited anything.
Take two inmates. One is kept alove for 60 years in prison on my nickle. The other is put to death 8 months after his conviction. Which one costs me more? The shortest length of time for an inmate to be on death row in Texas is around 8 months. Meanwhile, my taxes are feeding and clothing the lifer. Also paying for more prison space to be built when the prisons run out of space.
You see, you can twist things around any old way you like. I prefer my taxes going to support inmates who might actually be able to get back into society.
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actually I've seen some where were it shows it is cheaper to keep them alive than put to death, I thought it was cheaper to kill them but it's not. I'll keep looking, it was the appeals for the death penalty inmates that drives the cost way up.
either way, i say keep on executing them. I listened to an interview a guy had with this guy and he showed no remorse or ever said he was sorry for what happened. The group even bragged about it that night at one of their brother or cousins.
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Wonderful thing about statistics. They can be made to prove whatever you want. Limit the number of appeals to three and what happens to the statistics?
Now, putting costs aside, putting down a rabid dog is still better than letting it run loose, even in a cage where it has a daily chance of getting free and killing someone.
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actually I've seen some where were it shows it is cheaper to keep them alive than put to death, I thought it was cheaper to kill them but it's not. I'll keep looking, it was the appeals for the death penalty inmates that drives the cost way up.
either way, i say keep on executing them. I listened to an interview a guy had with this guy and he showed no remorse or ever said he was sorry for what happened. The group even bragged about it that night at one of their brother or cousins.
It is more expensive to execute an inmate then it is to keep him for life. That is based off the GIANT assumption that the inmate is allowed to appeal for 20 to 30 years. That is 20 to 30 years of teams of Lawyers (who aren't known for being thrifty) on BOTH sides of the case ripping up million dollar bills like they were napkins.
It would not even be close to true if the appeals were only allowed to proceed until 1 year from conviction (upon which the killer will be executed, exactly).
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telling you what i read, it was more than i had ever seen saying the opposite. and again I'm all for stringing them up from a tree, not letting them sit in a cell.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again:
Thou shall not kill.
I've lost a lot of faith in organized religion but that is one thing I will always agree on. The death penalty makes us no better then the criminals. It doesn't bring closure, it isn't 100% fool proof that we won't kill an innocent person, and the practice sickens me.
Actually the correct quote is: 'Thou shall not commit murder'
If you read the Bible there are plenty of times that God said "Kill 'em......kill 'em all!"
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Wonderful thing about statistics. They can be made to prove whatever you want. Limit the number of appeals to three and what happens to the statistics?
Now, putting costs aside, putting down a rabid dog is still better than letting it run loose, even in a cage where it has a daily chance of getting free and killing someone.
So you'd be happy with the chances of an innocent being put to death by limiting the appeals process? Heaven help you if your wrongly accused.
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Actually the correct quote is: 'Thou shall not commit murder'
If you read the Bible there are plenty of times that God said "Kill 'em......kill 'em all!"
The Jesus I was taught to believe in as a child never once said "kill em all". People telling me things like what you are saying really made me take a good long look at what I believe.
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Being accused and being found guilty of a crime are very different. Those put on death row are typically not done via circumstantial evidence.
With DNA testing today, it is much easier to be sure of finding and prosecuting the criminal who actually did commit the crime. Forensics have improved greatly in the last 5 years.
I want a limit to appeals to prevent the abuse of the appelate system that is occurring now. Right now attorneys can without information with the sole purpose of being able to put forth an appeal if the current appeal fails. You give them a hard limit and watch how fast all that information is disclosed.
We can play this game all day long. The 'what if' is boundless.
What if I tripped going out to my car and cracked open my skull?
What if someone loses control of their car and crashes into my house killing my Wife and I?
What if the murderer gets off on a technicality and murders me?
ad infinitum
Would you be happy if we let the murderer go and he slaughtered your family? Life w/o parole is meaningless in a judicial system where you have seemingly endless opportunities to appeal the court decision.
EDIT: Let me make this simple for you. I repsect your right to your opinion, but there is nothing you can say which will change my mind about the death penalty. For me it is simple. When the time comes that a human being ceases to act and/or reasonable a human being then it is time to remove that from society permanently. Death is the best permanent solution I can come up with for those that fit in that category.
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Well it's fun to see you'd like to get into it. I guess I will start looking for my links to support my opinoins.
Also I like how you assume I want to see these people free. I have never stated such. Here's one reason I oppose the penalty:
I don't believe in the afterlife. When you die, your dead. Knowing that I'd much rather have someone rot in a jail cell than slowly rot in a coffin.
Another being that it is a final decision. No whoops, sorry we killed you even though you didn't do anything wrong afterall. Some lucky dude got let off death row recently after being proven innocent, I need to find the story but I'm pretty sure they were close to offing him.
So now that the its cheaper to kill him argument was sunk we've moved to a limit a man's chances when the decision is final argument. Awesome.
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Glad you saw the light on the cost thing.
You want to keep them alive. I don't. Pretty much sums up the entire things doesn't it? I do not see that changing. So why bother with it?
So what is the next bait?
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I would toss in $5 to help cover the $85.00 for the drugs used in the lethal injection. I bet that hat could be filled pretty quickly.
I got 5 spot for the cause also.
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I myself love hearing a murderer got what was coming to him. :aok
If it was up to me we'd still be frying them in the E-chair.
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Glad you saw the light on the cost thing.
You want to keep them alive. I don't. Pretty much sums up the entire things doesn't it? I do not see that changing. So why bother with it?
So what is the next bait?
Wow, you really think I'm baiting and not just trying to argue the point?
Also I don't see how I "saw the light on the cost thing". As of right now it is more expensive to kill a man than put him in jail for 75 years. I've refuted your 3 appeals argument with the point that with the death penalty is too serious too not allow appeals. Leaving us at disagreement, not baiting each other. C'mon Skuzzy, don't just get all defensive about it. I haven't once attempted to troll or de-rail the discussion.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again:
Thou shall not kill.
I've lost a lot of faith in organized religion but that is one thing I will always agree on. The death penalty makes us no better then the criminals. It doesn't bring closure, it isn't 100% fool proof that we won't kill an innocent person, and the practice sickens me.
Agreed !
All the religions are against murder, doesn't matter if was done by a sick mind pshyco or a government execution.
As long as we don't know where we come from and where we go after death, i think it's better to follow the instructions given by GOD . I spent few months last year watching my mother dieing slowly after long cancer,few surgeries and chemotherapy, and reading this ,i'm thinking the natural death is way more painful than instant death by lethal injection. Most of us chatting here are going to end in way more painful death than this monster criminal. Executions after wasting $$ 15 years on him, just make him another service , to leave quick and easy without long suffering.
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Being accused and being found guilty of a crime are very different. Those put on death row are typically not done via circumstantial evidence.
With DNA testing today, it is much easier to be sure of finding and prosecuting the criminal who actually did commit the crime. Forensics have improved greatly in the last 5 years.
I want a limit to appeals to prevent the abuse of the appelate system that is occurring now. Right now attorneys can without information with the sole purpose of being able to put forth an appeal if the current appeal fails. You give them a hard limit and watch how fast all that information is disclosed.
We can play this game all day long. The 'what if' is boundless.
What if I tripped going out to my car and cracked open my skull?
What if someone loses control of their car and crashes into my house killing my Wife and I?
What if the murderer gets off on a technicality and murders me?
ad infinitum
Would you be happy if we let the murderer go and he slaughtered your family? Life w/o parole is meaningless in a judicial system where you have seemingly endless opportunities to appeal the court decision.
EDIT: Let me make this simple for you. I repsect your right to your opinion, but there is nothing you can say which will change my mind about the death penalty. For me it is simple. When the time comes that a human being ceases to act and/or reasonable a human being then it is time to remove that from society permanently. Death is the best permanent solution I can come up with for those that fit in that category.
"Hell, I like you, you can come over to my house and'...
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So you'd be happy with the chances of an innocent being put to death by limiting the appeals process? Heaven help you if your wrongly accused.
If that logic stands, then you would need to free ALL CONVICTS. God forbid you accidentally imprisoning an innocent man!
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A bullet or a rope is still the cheapest. Hell, I'd do most of em myself for free. Just doin' my part for the good tax payers of America. :aok
P.S. The father of any female that is raped and/or murdered should get first dibs.
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If that logic stands, then you would need to free ALL CONVICTS. God forbid you accidentally imprisoning an innocent man!
I don't see how you got that out of what I said.
Innocent North Carolina Man Exonerated After 14 Years On Death Row (5/2/2008)
Levon "Bo" Jones Fifth Innocent Death Row Inmate Freed In Past 11 Months And 129th Since 1973
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: (212) 549-2582 or 2666; media@aclu.org
KENANSVILLE, NC – An innocent man who spent 14 years on North Carolina's death row after being wrongfully convicted for a 1987 murder will be released from prison today. Jones has been represented by American Civil Liberties Union Capital Punishment Project lawyers Cassandra Stubbs and Brian Stull, along with North Carolina attorney Ernest "Buddy" Connor.
Levon "Bo" Jones, an African-American man who has always maintained his innocence, was sentenced to death in 1993 for the murder of Leamon Grady, a white man. Jones is the fifth innocent death row inmate to be exonerated in the United States in the past 11 months, and the third innocent North Carolina death row inmate to be granted release in the past six months. He is the 129th death row exoneree since 1973.
"We never had any doubt about Bo Jones' innocence," said Connor. "We knew when we started the case that there were serious holes in the evidence. After we began seriously investigating the case, it completely unraveled."
A federal judge ordered Jones off death row in 2006 and overturned his conviction, declaring that the defense provided by Jones' initial defense attorneys was so poor that they missed critical evidence pointing to his innocence. After keeping him imprisoned in anticipation of a retrial, the Duplin County, N.C. District Attorney announced Thursday that the state was dropping all charges and Jones would be released.
The sole witness accusing Jones of the murder, Lovely Lorden, admitted in an affidavit filed last month that she "was certain that Bo did not have anything to do with Mr. Grady's murder" and that she did not know what happened the night Grady was murdered. A new trial had been set to begin May 12.
Jones' exoneration and release comes two weeks after a U.S. Supreme Court ruling in Baze v. Rees upholding the three drug lethal injection method of capital punishment used in Kentucky. Other states have begun to lift a de facto national moratorium on the use of the death penalty.
"This case highlights the serious and rampant flaws inherent in the death penalty," Stubbs said. "A system that can't protect the innocent from conviction shouldn't gamble with life and death. This case – and those of the many other innocent exonerees – should give states pause about lifting moratoriums after the Baze decision."
Stull said there is a direct link between Jones' 14 years on death row and the quality of his first trial counsel.
"This case points out the problems with capital counsel in many parts of the country," he said. "Bo Jones's first trial lawyer never bothered to get the many conflicting statements of Lovely Lorden, let alone do the kind of investigation necessary in a first degree murder case. We will never know if Lorden would have admitted the truth earlier had the case been investigated and had she been adequately cross-examined."
Jones was represented in post-conviction by the North Carolina Center for Death Penalty Litigation, which persuaded the federal court to grant him a new trial.
Larry Lamb, a codefendant of Jones who has also always maintained his innocence, remains behind bars, serving a life sentence. Lamb turned down a plea offer of a six year sentence and was also convicted based on the testimony of Lorden. He plans to ask the newly formed North Carolina Innocence Inquiry Commission to review his case.
And there you have it. An innocent man freed from death row. But wait?! 14 years? Crap, if we followed Skuzzy's advice we'd have killed an innocent man!
From arguments I'm seeing you all could care less I think.
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The original wording of that commandment was "thou shalt not commit murder". Read the rest of the Old Testament and you'll find that as a rule, punishment was swift, sure, and harsh.
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Translations are tricky my friend. Thou shall not kill is and was from my last Bible study (albeit 8 or more years ago) the accepted best translation.
So we come to:
And thats why Jesus came along.
What would Jesus do? Bet you 1,000 bucks it isn't put him to death. :salute
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The original wording of that commandment was "thou shalt not commit murder". Read the rest of the Old Testament and you'll find that as a rule, punishment was swift, sure, and harsh.
I was under the impression that it could also mean "Thou shalt not slaughter men"
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Translations are tricky my friend. Thou shall not kill is and was from my last Bible study (albeit 8 or more years ago) the accepted best translation.
So we come to:
And thats why Jesus came along.
What would Jesus do? Bet you 1,000 bucks it isn't put him to death. :salute
From a Bible study? I'm talking about the original HEBREW writings of the OLD Testament.
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Let us not forget an "an eye for an eye" or for Evenhaim; "עין תחת עין"
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Translations are tricky my friend. Thou shall not kill is and was from my last Bible study (albeit 8 or more years ago) the accepted best translation.
"Thou shall not kill."-Deu 5:17
This is the Hebrew word for "kill" in the passage:"ratsach"
http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Deu&chapter=5&verse=17&version=KJV#17
This is the Strong's Concordance definition of the Hebrew word "ratsach".
1) to murder, slay, kill
a) (Qal) to murder, slay
1) premeditated
2) accidental
3) as avenger
4) slayer (intentional) (participle)
b) (Niphal) to be slain
c) (Piel)
1) to murder, assassinate
2) murderer, assassin (participle)(subst)
d) (Pual) to be killed
http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H07523&t=kjv
If there is any doubt as to what the Bible says regarding capitol punishment see:
Exodus 21:12 "He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death."
Leviticus 24:17 "And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death."
Regards,
Sun
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Translations are tricky my friend. Thou shall not kill is and was from my last Bible study (albeit 8 or more years ago) the accepted best translation.
If your reading the king James version your right how ever it was translated wrong. It has been proved it was translated wrong yet they still wont correct it.
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Translations are tricky my friend. Thou shall not kill is and was from my last Bible study (albeit 8 or more years ago) the accepted best translation.
So we come to:
And thats why Jesus came along.
What would Jesus do? Bet you 1,000 bucks it isn't put him to death. :salute
You would lose the bet:
Numbers 35:30
Whoever kills any person [intentionally], the murderer shall be put to death on the testimony of witnesses; but no one shall be put to death on the testimony of one witness.
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The Jesus I was taught to believe in as a child never once said "kill em all". People telling me things like what you are saying really made me take a good long look at what I believe.
Based on the supposition that Christ/God/The Holy Spirit are all the same being:
Numbers 25:4
And the Lord said to Moses, Take all the leaders or chiefs of the people, and hang them before the Lord in the sun [after killing them], that the fierce anger of the Lord may turn away from Israel.
Numbers 31:17
Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who is not a virgin.
And then there were times he just did the killin' himself:
Leviticus 10:2
And there came forth fire from before the Lord and killed them, and they died before the Lord.
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Yeah, but those were killings by the boss himself or by his direct orders. Don't think he authorized anything else :devil
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I've said it before and I'll say it again:
Thou shall not kill.
I've lost a lot of faith in organized religion but that is one thing I will always agree on. The death penalty makes us no better then the criminals. It doesn't bring closure, it isn't 100% fool proof that we won't kill an innocent person, and the practice sickens me.
Interesting that you would quote one of the 10 Commandments from the Bible yet ignore the Bible when it comes to dealing with criminals who were very often stoned to death.
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You would lose the bet:
Numbers 35:30
Whoever kills any person [intentionally], the murderer shall be put to death on the testimony of witnesses; but no one shall be put to death on the testimony of one witness.
Maybe he wouldn't
Genesis 9:6 "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man.
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The guy got what was coming to him.... it took way too long. Mexico and the World court can take a hike.
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Maybe he wouldn't
Genesis 9:6 "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man.
Read that verse again......it actually supports the ones from Numbers.
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Read that verse again......it actually supports the ones from Numbers.
Yeah that's what I meant. Whoever means anybody, even executioners.
Anything written in bible can be interpreted different ways. It has also been a while since it was last updated. Christians could make good use of version II, adopted to today's standards. Disambiguate a lil bit and so... :devil
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Yeah that's what I meant. Whoever means anybody, even executioners.
Anything written in bible can be interpreted different ways. It has also been a while since it was last updated. Christians could make good use of version II, adopted to today's standards. Disambiguate a lil bit and so... :devil
That verse you quoted isn't talking about executioners, it's talking about murders. (It's also not talking about killing during battle.) If you kill someone, expect your blood to be shed. That's essentially what that verse is saying.
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It's also not talking about killing during battle.
OK, maybe that's why Jesus fixed it with the sword?
Matthew 26:52 Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword"
I'm not really into bible (and religion) as such, but what I understood when read the bible is that god made man by his own image and to kill the man would equal to disfiguring god's image.
Kinda like when I read second amendment. Says "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed". Means to me every state can have militia and that I can own guns. Some smarties always find deeper and different meaning.
Anyways, how's with those not religious or members of other religions or people with different moral values, does bible still applies? Or can they disagree with it as long as they don't break the law?
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In this case? Rape,kick stomp and then strangle the 2 teenage girls just walking home?Yea.10 days time to think about that needle is more than enough time to let them suck on the state funds.Now I know genetic evidence has come along to prove someone not guilty of a crime but in this case the offenders involved should have ALL gotten the death penalty.As Dirty Harry would say,"No trial,no papers to file." Thats my kinda justice right there.They shoulda "resisted" being arrested and saved us all some trouble.
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OK, maybe that's why Jesus fixed it with the sword?
Matthew 26:52 Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword"
Thats why God over rode Jesus much with the "Thou shalt not kill" with the subtitle 'unless a bunch of scumbags beat 2 teenage girls to death after raping them"
Dennis Leary said it best.Sometimes ya gotta thin the herd.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again:
Thou shall not kill.
I've lost a lot of faith in organized religion but that is one thing I will always agree on. The death penalty makes us no better then the criminals. It doesn't bring closure, it isn't 100% fool proof that we won't kill an innocent person, and the practice sickens me.
Statements like this are why pot is, and should remain, illegal.
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ted bundy will never rape and kill any more young women, he made the mistake of doing it in Florida. In florida, we kill people who do things that.
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I once asked who would come forth and support the criminal if he got a life sentence instead of the death penalty. You could hear the crickets chirping.
I once asked some folks who were trying to get a known criminal released, how many wanted him to move into their NEIGHBORHOOD.... same result.
Some folks want to forgive everyone but want none of the forgiven in their neck of the woods.
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NIMBY
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N ot
I n
M y
B ack
Y ard
Exactly!
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Statements like this are why pot is, and should remain, illegal.
:rofl
DON'T FEED THE TROLL!
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Texas Executes Inmate After High Court Steps Aside
Article Tools Sponsored By
By DAVID STOUT
Published: August 7, 2008
WASHINGTON — An Honduran immigrant convicted of murder was put to death in Texas on Thursday evening after the Supreme Court declined to block the execution, despite his lawyers’ complaints that he should have been told that he could get assistance early on from Honduran diplomats.
The court’s ruling came without dissent and without comment.
The immigrant, Heliberto Chi, 29, was executed in Huntsville, Tex., for shooting to death his former boss during a robbery at a men’s store in Arlington in 2001.
Thats 2. Keep up the good work!