Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Bark0 on March 23, 2009, 04:04:27 PM
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Just the Other day i was flying around in a P-51 and came to where the fight was over A10. I was at about 7K or so and Saw and F4F flying about 3K below me. So I dive down and Lock On his six. He goes into a turn and Knowing I can Fallow I Keep my sight on him. He takes me into the Sky where I see his Oil is out. "Great" I think to myself "Easier to kill" but then I stop and think a second. "This Man has fought in battle, and Probably has won Despite the Damaged plane" I am 400 out and climbing. The question rings out inside my head. Should I or Shouldn't I?
I Wave my wings and pull off to the left. As I check the map..the Damaged plane I once thought I could kill was heading Home.
About 5 minutes later I get into a good dogfight with Another P-51. We Scissors around for quite a bit and Then Collide. I loose my oil and Half my right wing. I level off..knowing I have So skill to Fight like this I turn back to base. Amazingly the P-51 i was just fighting took no Damage. As I turn back to my base. the P-51 Dives down from my 12...HOes me..and I end up in the tower.
:huh
I'm ok with People who are Score freaks...getting tens of thousands of perks every tour but people could at least fight with Honor.
When People bail out of their Plane I usually see Another friendly plane dive down and kill the Chute. I myself Will just fly By the chute and keep going. When People Shoot a Chute (Hey It rhymes :) ) It reminds me of a book I once read. A man Bailed out of His P-40 and as he floats down to the Ground A Japanese Zero Dives down and attempts to kill the Chute. He takes many passes but fails to kill the chute. The Japanese pilot returns to base. The Wing commander Chews him out saying it is "Dis-honorable to kill a man who has fought Valiantly" The Pilot Bravely Retorts " Dead Pilots Don't fly another day".
The 2 pilots (the one that bailed and the one that was chewed out) Later on in the book both fight and the Japanese zero pilot Bails out and floats to the ground as his plane plummets to the Ground on fire. the P-40 Pilot zooms past the Chute and they both Wave to each-other.
I just hope this teaches someone something on honor while fighting. I don't say you HAVE to do this...I am Just saying It's my style on fighting. And I would like to see this A bit more too.
:salute
1st lt. Barko Edwards
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I would have waxed the Wildcat. If I was also that P-51 you were fighting, I would have finished the job and waxed you as well. If you were in a parachute, I would have waxed you as well and then laugh at the thread you made about 'honor' in a game.
Oh, the Japanese didn't think it was 'dishonorable' to shoot someone in a parachute. They found it to be more dishonorable to bail out. So that story is bunk.
ack-ack
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Honor in here is a tough nut to define. If you have an honor code and enjoy playing that way. Your going to find that it takes more honor to stay honorable then it takes to be honorable in here.
Very few in AH respect any kind of honor code.
<S>
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Back IN AW it was considered to be very disrespectful to kill someone in their chute. It was the worst thing to do if you really hated the guy. I still hold that belief and have shot very few of them out in the open.
On Snailman's advice many months ago, I shoot every chute in town range...but thats a different reason all together.
In the MA I don't usually not shoot damaged planes unless I seen them fighting for their survival and making enough kills to get away. If I caused the damage they are dead 1 vs 1 or 2.
In the DA I hardly ever go after them unless i know who it is. Spacy, RC....well any Temp or picker i spot trying to run but mostly guys like them. :aok
We all play the game different. Some learned at different times and some at different ages.
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Your story exists only in a fantasy realm, as do your expectations.
asw
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BarkO don't mind ack-ack...his Zoloft prescription usually runs out towards the end of the month :rofl
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I would have killed the wildcat. Unless I was friendly with the pony pilot I would have killed him too, although I wouldnj't have given him a shot opportunity by HO'ing him. I've gotten kills in a pony with half a wing.
I do not shoot chutes, ever.
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Bark0 meet Ack-Ack :rofl
Ok, simple question? Unless you're hoping to camp the map room with your pistol, who hangs in a chute long enuff to get killed anyway?
And one further observation concerning Real War: War is War. It's not some surreal 18th century game where pompous aristocrats dress up in silly uniforms and ride around on horses waving swords, all the while talking about "Honor" in warfare. War is killing and being killed. It should be avoided until absolutely unavoidable, then prosecuted with total ruthlessness once it starts. Accepting this reality would prevent many wars from happening, while shortening the ones that do. :salute
<End of Rant>
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Very few in AH respect any kind of honor code.
Respect is sparse where anonymity is prevalent.
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Why not shoot a chute? The guy is already down. He is also not a real live pilot.
Furthermore, what do you do while in a chute? Give check sixes and battle updates via a radio that you shouldn't have without a plane attached to it.
Anyone hanging around more than a few seconds in a chute is up to no good. Some even have landed and then vulched planes on the runway. I was operating a field gun against a horde once and one of these little buggers ran up to me and killed me. Fill them full of lead. :devil
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I upped a heavy Typhoon to hit a GV at a flashing base.
Myself and another (no names) guy in an Il2(Ithink) are heading towards the same Gv.
He's a little ahead of me and takes a shot and gets the guy smoking.
I tell him on range that I'll leave the guy for him to finish off, since he hit him 1st.
A little common courtesy.
He makes another pass and kills the guy.
Well, the Gv ups again, and I turn towards it to drop my ord.
This to be un-named dweeb jumps in and says he can't wait all day for me to kill this Gv. ( I was within the Gvs icon range)
Of course he goes in and smokes him, and AGAIN I say ok, go finish him off. ( He thanked me again)
The GV pops up again and guess what happened.
Go ahead guess.
Yup, This dweeb wouldn't let me get to the Gv and I wind up landing with full ord, and he lands 3 kills.
Such is the mind set of this game.
I gotta believe this guy was also wearing his " I'd walk over you to see The Who" T-shirt.
Its the "me" generation.
Gotta love em.
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I never fire at chutes, either in the plane or in a gv. But...once he lands on the ground and pulls out his .45....he's open game. :devil
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Usally if it is a 3 counry war I will clear the one person who is getting ganged and let him run home.
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Honor went out the window in 1915.
When I kill a damaged plane it does three things.
1- It gives someone on my team a kill
2- It gives someone on my team an assist
3- It gives the damaged planes' pilot a death ( I know, I know, points mean nothing....)
Shoot chutes because if he bails successfully he gets half his points. (Yeah, yeah, the points thing again....) he gets 40% of them even if he's captured.
Kill them.
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I fly how i want, i die with honor.
:salute :rock
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Shoot chutes because if he bails successfully he gets half his points. (Yeah, yeah, the points thing again....) he gets 40% of them even if he's captured.
Kill them.
Why do you care how many points he gets?
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Kill the planes, kill the chutes, kill them all... :aok
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Kill the planes, kill the chutes, kill them all...
^ U say this
Your Signature says thisThe Nicest Guy In Aces High
:huh :confused: :uhoh :lol
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kill them all, let Allah sort them out! :P
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I won't ram someone with a perfectly good plane...unless they are going for troops....does that count?
S
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It's a riot to hear some of you guys say that there is no honor in the game. That is truly the most outlandish statement I've ever heard. Many people who are on these boards have to begin with, some of them, do not. I tend to fight with honor in every situation possible, so there is absolutly no way you can call me out on anything.
Most of my shots that I take are on the enemy's six, so that it shows that I won fair and square. And with my expectations, that's what kills me when killing other people.
Most people don't have the same view as I have, and I get pizzed when someone dosn't fight the way I think that they should have fought. I hate poeple who HO, it's a useless, dumb tatic that gets you no were, if you miss. It just shows me that you have no skill, and it's going to be an easy kill.
I had a run in with a 190A-5 in my 190D the other day. We were just about Co-alt and I just cam out of a loop for another go around on another con below him. I look at him and decide to go after him. He sees me coming, so I pull a little to the right, to avoid the HO. Of course, he HOes, and takes off my elevator in the first pass. I loop and he loops with me. Now I'm really pizzed, this guy knows what he is doing, and he HOes me? :huh
So we come out of the loop and he HOes me again, great. So I fly him around for a wile and some one finally comes in and kills him and I tell him, good job HOing me.
He tells me that I don't HO unless I have to. He had to HO me in that situation? :huh
Just makes me wonder.
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It's a riot to hear some of you guys say that there is no honor in the game. That is truly the most outlandish statement I've ever heard. Many people who are on these boards have to begin with, some of them, do not. I tend to fight with honor in every situation possible, so there is absolutly no way you can call me out on anything.
Most of my shots that I take are on the enemy's six, so that it shows that I won fair and square. And with my expectations, that's what kills me when killing other people.
Most people don't have the same view as I have, and I get pizzed when someone dosn't fight the way I think that they should have fought. I hate poeple who HO, it's a useless, dumb tatic that gets you no were, if you miss. It just shows me that you have no skill, and it's going to be an easy kill.
I had a run in with a 190A-5 in my 190D the other day. We were just about Co-alt and I just cam out of a loop for another go around on another con below him. I look at him and decide to go after him. He sees me coming, so I pull a little to the right, to avoid the HO. Of course, he HOes, and takes off my elevator in the first pass. I loop and he loops with me. Now I'm really pizzed, this guy knows what he is doing, and he HOes me? :huh
So we come out of the loop and he HOes me again, great. So I fly him around for a wile and some one finally comes in and kills him and I tell him, good job HOing me.
He tells me that I don't HO unless I have to. He had to HO me in that situation? :huh
Just makes me wonder.
Then, he comes on the message boards and starts a thread about someone accusing him of HOing and was it really a HO or not.....
Say No to ch200.
(voluntarily, of course. Your results may vary)
wrongway
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I tend to fight with honor in every situation possible, so there is absolutly no way you can call me out on anything.
Most of my shots that I take are on the enemy's six, so that it shows that I won fair and square. And with my expectations, that's what kills me when killing other people.
Ever vulch anyone?
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I dont call it honor since this is just a video game, me personally wont HO unless someone gives me a good reason to, I pick people but I wont shoot at someone who has like 2 guys already on him and I will normally ask someone if they need help with a con before I engage. Calling it honor is alittle silly maybe respect I dont know :salute
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This is what it comes down to for me.
I'm 48 years old, sitting at a computer, pretending to be a cartoon fighter pilot. When words like honor get thrown around here, I kinda want to giggle as I look around and don't see myself as a 'knight of the air', but some past his prime guy sitting in his chair in his computer room. Nothing real noble about it :)
If you want to shoot my chute, go for it, although I don't recall ever bailing out of my 38G as 'riding it in" seems a much quicker way to get back to the tower and a new cartoon pilot and P38G. If blasting my half a wing 38 is what gives you a thrill, then feel free. I get a new one everytime and I have yet to die :aok
I understand what you are saying, but maybe I'd word it differently. Maybe you are recognizing it wouldn't be a fair fight and not much of an accomplishment to shoot down a half a wing F4F. Maybe you are just letting the guy see if he can get it down OK.
Playing fair, being a good sport about the game, and keeping it in perspective seems the most important things to me. My life won't change one bit based on whether CorkyJr has a good or bad night in his cartoon 38G. I just can't take any of it that serious in AH :)
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Why do you care how many points he gets?
Because pointmongering fosters bad habits like vulching, ganging and picking. I am prepared to believe that there are some people out there who revel in the immersion of floating to the ground in a parachute. I also believe that there aren't many of these, and that the vast majority of chute people are trying to preserve their scores. So I hold it almost a sacred duty to shoot them, if doing so doesn't take me away from a real fight.
- oldman
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Yea i once saw somebosy walk in hsi chute all the way out of the dar ring so he could bail.
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We're fighting 12 year olds half the time. Honor? My rosy red arse :rofl
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Honor doesn't come into the equation for me. I get my joy out of killing the other cartoon persona's in game.
Of course, I work towards being a good sport about it, but honor? who needs it ;)
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:salute
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I can see letting someone go home after a good fight. On the other hand, when I'm in a good fight, going home is not really on my mind. I just slug it out until I can't fly my plane anymore, and in a good fight, the other guy is usually doing the same. I'm not gonna stop just because my oil is it, leaking fuel, flap gone, aileron gone, etc. It's only because I place less emphasis on returning home.
It comes down to how you want to play the game. Feel free to pretend your in a real war with real lives and mix in honor if that is your cup of tea. Lots of people define in game honor as different things. Your just not going to get everyone to fly to the exact same "code," as that code varies largely on previous game experience and how you go about playing the game. For example, a guy only interested in pvp combat might view things such as vulching, spawn camping, HOing as dishonorable forms of gameplay. On the flip side, playing from a stategy end of things vulching and spawn camping are a form of denying the enemy an area. Not even going to get into age groups.
As for shooting chutes....ya, I do it. I don't really see any issue with it as I don't see the pixel as a real person. If you land in your chute....do you then walk back to an airbase? If you see a plane coming towards you, you can .ef in chute. This will deny the chute killer and saves you from having to walk back to your base. Besides, the chute guy is an armed combatant :) Also of note, chutes can also be factors in a fight, communicating with their team....something that WW2 pilots couldn't do.
Now, if I was a real WWII fighter pilot I can say that I wouldn't do such a thing. Then again, many terrible things happen in real war, even comitted by otherwise good people.
Fortunately this is a video game. Everyone can just relax and have fun.
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Back IN AW it was considered to be very disrespectful to kill someone in their chute. It was the worst thing to do if you really hated the guy. I still hold that belief and have shot very few of them out in the open.
On Snailman's advice many months ago, I shoot every chute in town range...but thats a different reason all together.
In the MA I don't usually not shoot damaged planes unless I seen them fighting for their survival and making enough kills to get away. If I caused the damage they are dead 1 vs 1 or 2.
In the DA I hardly ever go after them unless i know who it is. Spacy, RC....well any Temp or picker i spot trying to run but mostly guys like them. :aok
We all play the game different. Some learned at different times and some at different ages.
I started AW in 1990-1 and played right through to the end. I can't
remember any huge fuss about chute shooting. Of course I also can't
seem to recall the hundreds of DOS players that have claimed to have
flown then either.
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Usally if it is a 3 counry war I will clear the one person who is getting ganged and let him run home.
I did that once. One enemy in the mix with three others. Two were behind, and I dove down and knocked the wing off of one of his pursuers. The second broke off, and I followed him around.
Not four seconds later *ping ping ping BANG* and my plane is ripped apart . . .
Yep, you guessed it -- the guy I just cleared shot me down. :lol :cry :lol
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I started AW in 1990-1 and played right through to the end. I can't
remember any huge fuss about chute shooting. Of course I also can't
seem to recall the hundreds of DOS players that have claimed to have
flown then either.
From my days in AW, chute shooting was a part of the game and you were usually doing the other guy a favor by shooting at it. Until AW3 came along, if you bailed out in your chute you had to float all the way down. It was very common (more so than hearing the limp wrists whine about it) to see players asking and pleading to have their chute shot so they don't have to spend 30 minutes or longer floating down to the ground.
ack-ack
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Like most, I like to shoot them in the back. That's the honourable way to do it. HO'ing is dishonourable because the enemy can see you. :devil
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....pretending to be a cartoon fighter pilot.
I AM a cartoon fighter pilot. Just wanted to share that... Dissappearing back into the background pooof....
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This is a video game. There is no such thing as "honor".
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I could sit here for an hour talking about honor, but the fact remains: you do not die when your virtual character does in a game. You can ALWAYS have another chance, and therefore there is no life impacting reason to consider wheather or not the way you fly and/or the way you are being flown against is honorable.
HO me all you want, I'll always get another chance to avoid it.
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This is a video game. There is no such thing as "honor".
spoken like a true 15 year old!
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Its the "me" generation.
You do realize the "me generation" are in their sixties today, don't you?
I don't associate most of the things that started this thread with honor. I figure you can look at this as pure game play, or you can look at it as a gamey combat sim.
In the latter case, there IS no honor, at least on this subject; there is living and dying. Honor gets your best friend killed tomorrow by the guy you didn't kill today. So to the extent you're trying to simulate combat at any level, no mercy is the order of the day.
(I don't buy most of that stuff about not shooting enemy chutes in a real war, either. Of course we hate the other side for doing it to us, but we hate them for killing us "fairly" too. And if you're a fighter pilot, one of your primary goals is to kill enemy aircrew. That's the reason they gave you all that training and flew you 5,000 miles to the combat theater and gave you that expensive airplane. If you don't want to be a ruthless killer, don't volunteer to fly fighters. Sparing prisoners who can't hurt you any more is one thing, but a guy that's going to be right back in it tomorrow killing your countrymen if you let him go? F#%* that noise, machine gun him 'til he stops doing the boogaloo. And for that matter, is an enemy combatant who bailed out any more deserving of mercy than the 200,000 civilians your comrades in Bomber Command are going to incinerate tonight? War is legalized murder, it's an awful, ugly thing - so don't start any wars.)
To the extent we look at it is just a game, getting "killed" is the normal result of losing the fight. Honor doesn't require that you let the other guy get away. If he put up a good fight, give him a . I like to try to bring badly damaged planes home, but if an enemy finds me and kills me first, hey, that's the game. And unlike some of the other things people here complain about - HOing, gangbangs, hordes, etc. - killing a damaged plane doesn't get in the way of good fights.
There are things many of us frown on because they're wastes of time, like killing chutes, some that are cheesy, like jumping in a fight that's already 3-1 or more, and some that are rude, like jumping in and stealing a kill from a guy who's been working hard to get the other guy into a vulnerable state and position. But any of those go out the window if there's a need for it - I'll kill a chute that might defend a map room, and jump in no matter how many people have done what if the bandit is just about to drop troops or sink a CV, and I'd expect anyone else to do the same. But I don't see how "honor" comes in to any of that, at most it's good manners or good sportsmanship, which are good things, but not really the same as honor.
The one really dishonorable thing I hear about in this game is switching sides just to sabotage the side you're switching to - not necessarily all spying (although I think that's bad sportsmanship too), but definitely things like hijacking a CV to a place where your old teammates can sink it easily, or manning a shore battery so no one else can get in it to shoot the CV your old buds have stationed 2000 yards off your current side's port. If you feel like switching sides, that's fine, but play for the team you're on and don't cheat. And no software hacks, warp-on-demand setups, or other technical cheating, either. That's a matter of honor.
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Honor doesn't come into the equation for me. I get my joy out of killing the other cartoon persona's in game.
Of course, I work towards being a good sport about it, but honor? who needs it ;)
Well put...
Respect for others and the people flying around you, is something I think would be considered 'honorable'.
I'll usually finish them if their oil is hit, or half their wing gone. I see what you mean, but you cannot expect others to fly like you or how you want them to...
:salute
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spoken like a true 15 year old!
1+ or is that 2?
just getting used to that phrase
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I have the attitude that the enemy wouldn't pass up a wounded bird so neither will I,
If I have a good 1 vs 1 and the pilot shows some skill (both a rarity in the MA i know) and the enemy is hurt but flyable, I'll let him go, if he took parts off me or took opportunistic shots ill kill them all the same,
Joker nearly bounced me yesterday in a p51, as i was typing, He got good left wing hits and the left wing tank fuel, I was like :furious that P51 is gonna get it the cheeky bugger.
I engaged WEP and made two nice evades to get CO e, he couldn't quite rope me as the spit 14's zoom climb makes the P51 look like a fat bath tub, He never gave me an easy shot and did me the justice of trying to turn back in and re-merge a couple of times, I eventually had him on the deck running for his life when I popped out some rounds as he went 800-1000 out. He had a fuel leak and my last ditch shot attempt before he got out of range clipped half of his right wing. He was surprised I hit him from that distance but flying straight and level with no jinking is asking for it. He learn't something max shooting range for 50cal / 20mm is 1000 (IMO) and I learn't that Joker can keep his cool :D I was expecting the contrary ;)
Now we were in the middle of nowhere after a 5 minute fight I could have chased him all over the map until his fuel ran out and finished him but he gave me a good fight. :salute
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It was very common (more so than hearing the limp wrists whine about it) to see players asking and pleading to have their chute shot so they don't have to spend 30 minutes or longer floating down to the ground.
Lol yep. I remember players requesting the chute to be shot because they accidently bailed high.
I fly With Honor, How About You?
Me? I fly with a joystick, throttle, and pedals :)
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Well as for me, I leave the chutes / damaged aircraft alone (when I still used to fly). There's no real sport in killing them, let alone skill needed. I remember a day in the MA where I escorted a crippled B-17 back to his country (somehow he got the picture and didn't fire at me), asking friendlies to stay away.
Personally, I think such things are much more rewarding than killing them. You might even get a 'thanks' out if it sometimes.
But ofcourse these are guidelines, not rules :)
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I know the chutes are good for target practise but my aim never seems to get better so I leave them alone and save ammo for the next plane.
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This is a video game. There is no such thing as "honor".
Well if not "honor" maybe a little "class"?
On one hand the game IS a game, and should be fun. Like Ack-Ack said we use to shoot chutes all the time, because it was fun, and in some cases you where doing the guy a favor saving him the "float time" ( in AW if you opened your chute right away you took forever to get to the ground and there was no way out, unlike in AH where you can just end flight right away and get the same result.). Remember, this is a game so on the other hand all that crap about killing the enemy so he doesn't kill you later is just that, crap.
Honor, or class I think is more about game play, it has nothing to do with holding your head up, or making your Daddy proud, its a game.
IN THE GAME honor and class is
- not going for the HO,
- letting an enemy limp home after a good fight,
- not vulching,
- not spawn camping,
- not taking out the FH just to bust up a good fight,
- not taking out the VH just to bust up a good fight,
- not complaining about furballs,
- not complaining about land grabbers,
- not switching sides just to sit in a shore battery so your squad can bring in the CV close,
- not switching sides to report on what the other team is doing,
- using more than 8 people to run an NOE mission,
- using more than 20 people on an above dar mission,
....and the list could go on and on. Believe it or not most of these things were NOT a problem years ago. There was a lot more respect, and yes dare I say it Honor back then.
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4 pages.
1 troll.
Awesome.
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This is what it comes down to for me.
I'm 48 years old, sitting at a computer, pretending to be a cartoon fighter pilot. When words like honor get thrown around here, I kinda want to giggle as I look around and don't see myself as a 'knight of the air', but some past his prime guy sitting in his chair in his computer room. Nothing real noble about it :)
If you want to shoot my chute, go for it, although I don't recall ever bailing out of my 38G as 'riding it in" seems a much quicker way to get back to the tower and a new cartoon pilot and P38G. If blasting my half a wing 38 is what gives you a thrill, then feel free. I get a new one everytime and I have yet to die :aok
I understand what you are saying, but maybe I'd word it differently. Maybe you are recognizing it wouldn't be a fair fight and not much of an accomplishment to shoot down a half a wing F4F. Maybe you are just letting the guy see if he can get it down OK.
Playing fair, being a good sport about the game, and keeping it in perspective seems the most important things to me. My life won't change one bit based on whether CorkyJr has a good or bad night in his cartoon 38G. I just can't take any of it that serious in AH :)
:aok :salute
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Well if not "honor" maybe a little "class"?
I think "class" is a less loaded and more fitting term for this stuff than "honor". Honor is sacred. In past times, men often killed each other over matters of honor. We don't do that today, but IMO any man worth his salt should be willing to fight (with words if not with fists) to defend his honor.
Would anyone want to start a fight over issues like these? I certainly hope not. The remedy for poor sportsmanship, like bad manners, is to behave properly and let your example and that of the poor sport speak for themselves. Talking about it here on a discussion board is also fair game. But I wouldn't impugn anyone's honor over simple matters of game play.
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I think "class" is a less loaded and more fitting term for this stuff than "honor". Honor is sacred. In past times, men often killed each other over matters of honor. We don't do that today, but IMO any man worth his salt should be willing to fight (with words if not with fists) to defend his honor.
Would anyone want to start a fight over issues like these? I certainly hope not. The remedy for poor sportsmanship, like bad manners, is to behave properly and let your example and that of the poor sport speak for themselves. Talking about it here on a discussion board is also fair game. But I wouldn't impugn anyone's honor over simple matters of game play.
Best post on this thread. :aok
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It's too cold to go outside and aggravate my neighbors (too cold to walk 2 miles to the nearest neighbor) so here's something to ponder..or not. The last time I looked, this compilation of zeros and 1's in the truest sense is nothing more than a GAME.
The object of this game is to defeat the opponent via deft movements of a "piece of plastic equipped with various and sundry electronic/mechanical devices, all the while sitting in front of a CRT/LCD...but of course y'all know that, right??
So, given the above, in this GAME that has no rules ,other that those in the TA, does one get the idea of HONOR and or FAIR GAME PLAY!?!? Oh wait, I just answered my own question.."figment of your imagination"seems to apply.
Bottom line(s)for this type of GAME: "kill or be killed/do unto others before they do unto you"...it's a GAME!!! without ANY rules, and until HT decides to invoke a penalty for "shooting a chute", vulching, etc, etc, PLAY to have fun and best the other guy/gal in the process.
it's a game, it's a game, ,it's a game, it's a game, it's a bloody game, people!!
For those that take this GAME seriously...step away from your machine and get back to reality. :rolleyes:
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http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/honor
honor definition | Dictionary.com
hon⋅or
–noun
1. honesty, fairness, or integrity in one's beliefs and actions:
Honor exists. It's a state of mind. A way of life that you not only take with you when you meet your family, work on your job or even play in this video game. If you have none then of course you would not believe it could exist within some people.
It's just a game and shooting a chute does not make you any less honorable and neither does killing a wounded cartoon airplane but how you play and interact within this community does show a part of your personality. You either have it or you don't How you perceive it is another story.
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I played this game to have fun and get AWAY from real life. I also did alot of stuff in this game that I would NEVER think of doing in real life. Just because you shoot a cartoon "chute" doesn't mean you don't have any HONOR. I fly a little in RL and I would never think of doing a gear-up landing just for "the fun of it" like I did in this game. I'm pretty sure that if I was an actual fighter pilot I wouldn't shoot a real guy in a chute but since this is just a dang game....What the hell? Personally I can't recall ever shooting a cartoon pilot in a chute but so what if I did? What effect does it have on ANYTHING other than pissing off another gamer?
Btw...I have 18 years (and counting) of military experience behind me and I do think along the way I have learned a little bit about true HONOR.
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OK, just an example, hockey game. Two guys square off and the fist start flying one guy gets the shirt pulled over his head. There is no rule saying the other guy must stop punching the guy who can't see, but guys with honor in the game will stop punching and call the linesmen in. I saw this happen in two different games in the last week or so. These guys are "enforcers" it's their job to pummel the other guys, but they stop when it's unfair.
The same can be said about this game. We can go by dentins idea and be totally classless and barbarian about it, orrr we could have a bit of class/honor and NOT go out of our way to ruin the fun of the game. Honor and class is made up of unwritten rules.
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I just hope this teaches someone something on honor while fighting.
Another way of saying this is: "I have a self imposed belief system that has these particular character traits, how about you?"
Is any belief better than any other belief?
Who is to judge?
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Again...shooting a guy in a "chute" ISN'T REAL LIFE!
The hockey fight thing is very real even though it is classified as a "game". Would those same two guys feel the need to stop for "honor" when playing NHL 09 on Xbox? NO. It isn't real and that is part of the fun in getting online and being a video game bully. Sometimes it's fun to go against the grain and pretend you are something you are not.
Getting shot in a cartoon game doesn't hurt anything....A punch to the head does.
Too many guys bring RL into this game and I personally think it's sad.
I would also bet my left giblet that there are alot of guys on here that you think have "honor" and in real life they are cowardly fools.
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Honor exists. It's a state of mind. A way of life that you not only take with you when you meet your family, work on your job or even play in this video game. If you have none then of course you would not believe it could exist within some people.
It's just a game and shooting a chute does not make you any less honorable and neither does killing a wounded cartoon airplane but how you play and interact within this community does show a part of your personality. You either have it or you don't How you perceive it is another story.
:aok agreed
I believe real life has a tendency to bleed itself into a game like it or not such as this. If you act like an arse in real life you more than likely act like an arse in the game. If you live youre life with repect for others and not bashing someone when they are down, then you will probably more times than not play the game with a little honor and respect for others. If not maybe its time to take a long look in the mirror and ask youreself "am i really that much of a putz in real life" you may not like the answer.
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:aok agreed
I believe real life has a tendency to bleed itself into a game like it or not such as this. If you act like an arse in real life you more than likely act like an arse in the game. If you live youre life with repect for others and not bashing someone when they are down, then you will probably more times than not play the game with a little honor and respect for others. If not maybe its time to take a long look in the mirror and ask youreself "am i really that much of a putz in real life" you may not like the answer.
Excelllent post sir :aok :salute
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I find a chute a needless tax on my frail pc. It must die. People need to remember they can just tower and alls good. No need to float.
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Id Like to beleive that I'm very honorable in REAL Life. Than again this isnt real life is it?
tghe other day i was being vulched about 8 times just trying to get off the runway did I get mad ? No it became a game inside a game. i wanted to see how far up i could get without being downed.I had fun with it ! It doesnt meqan that i will do the same (Idont ) In fact I dont ho or vulch and Im not good enough to do any thing else i try to respect others and when i get shot i get back in and try again.
Hammer has a web site that said if you ditch ,the best thing to do is wait untill uyou see trees easily then open your chute it keeps me from being killed ! try it ! If you see me speak well for i will give you an easy kill
:aok
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If I bail ya better shoot me,....becouse if ya don't,I'll sprint over to your runway, and pop you in the mellon w/ my .45. :O
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Selective "honor" for the win. Although I'd rather just use the word respect.
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OK, just an example, hockey game. Two guys square off and the fist start flying one guy gets the shirt pulled over his head. There is no rule saying the other guy must stop punching the guy who can't see, but guys with honor in the game will stop punching and call the linesmen in. I saw this happen in two different games in the last week or so. These guys are "enforcers" it's their job to pummel the other guys, but they stop when it's unfair.
The same can be said about this game. We can go by dentins idea and be totally classless and barbarian about it, orrr we could have a bit of class/honor and NOT go out of our way to ruin the fun of the game. Honor and class is made up of unwritten rules.
Hey bud..I've refrained from insulting in my last post, your perception that my idea is totally classless and barbarian
is insulting. :mad: Get real, look around, what I described is the way the GAME is presently conducted...and rest assured it WILL NOT change, simply because there are NO rules for this type of GAME and the mindset of the current/future players...and my friend, "you can take that to the bank"
As far as comparing THIS GAME to a fight in a Hockey game...there is no comparison! In all probability, the reason the "puncher" stopped delivering blows was NOT because of "honor" but more on the lines of not wanting to get tossed into the slammer/getting sued OR receiving a substantial fine...IMNSHO!
So, you go ahead and play the way YOU see fit, and we(realists) will PLAY our way! :t
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OK, just an example, hockey game. Two guys square off and the fist start flying one guy gets the shirt pulled over his head. There is no rule say.ing the other guy must stop punching the guy who can't see, but guys with honor in the game will stop punching and call the linesmen in
This is hysterical. It's also BS. linesmen do not allow themselves to be dictated to as to when they intervene. A player does not influence when they step in. If a player becomes distinctly disadvantaged, then they step in. Player calling a linesman in... rofl. Now, a player may stop punching a guy he has shirted and clinch, causing the linemen to jump in but he's not gonna "call" anyone.
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I'm pretty sure that if I was an actual fighter pilot I wouldn't shoot a real guy in a chute
I'm always puzzled by this attitude. In real life, isn't killing the enemy your objective in combat? I understand not shooting noncombatants, medics, and prisoners, I'm not saying there's no morality in war - but unless he's going to drop behind your lines and be captured a bailed-out pilot is none of those things, he's still a very dangerous (just not immediately dangerous) combatant and an extremely valuable asset of the enemy.
No one would say that if an enemy soldier runs out of ammo in a firefight you should give him a chance to find more and reload before killing him. So why would anyone wait for an enemy ighter pilot to re-plane before killing him?
I'm sure I'd feel bad about killing a helpless pilot in a chute, but I'd feel bad about lots of things you have to do in war.
(I realize that this isn't really related to behavior in the game, but I would assume the attitudes and habits of RL fighter pilots are a legitimate subject for discussion in this forum.)
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Hey bud..I've refrained from insulting in my last post, your perception that my idea is is insulting. :mad: Get real, look around, what I described is the way the GAME is presently conducted...and rest assured it WILL NOT change, simply because there are NO rules for this type of GAME and the mindset of the current/future players...and my friend, "you can take that to the bank"
As far as comparing THIS GAME to a fight in a Hockey game...there is no comparison! In all probability, the reason the "puncher" stopped delivering blows was NOT because of "honor" but more on the lines of not wanting to get tossed into the slammer/getting sued OR receiving a substantial fine...IMNSHO!
So, you go ahead and play the way YOU see fit, and we(realists) will PLAY our way! :t
The game HAS changed, it use to have honor, and class. Todays players act like they are the dregs of the earth, its sometimes embarrassing to see their interaction on the boards and radio. I hope that it will change AGAIN and go back to the way t was. Pointing out how it was I hope to show others....like you... who seem to believe that the slum we play in now is the "be all and end all" of game play, isn't the only way to go, it can get better.
This is hysterical. It's also BS. linesmen do not allow themselves to be dictated to as to when they intervene. A player does not influence when they step in. If a player becomes distinctly disadvantaged, then they step in. Player calling a linesman in... rofl. Now, a player may stop punching a guy he has shirted and clinch, causing the linemen to jump in but he's not gonna "call" anyone.
Sorry Steve, In a recent Bruins game Thornton got into a fight with Orr. At one point during the fight Orr's jersey gets pulled up over his head. Now I don't know what Thornton was thinking, nor the linesmen, but Thornton does clearly gesture to them to come in. You can check it out HERE (http://bruins.nhl.tv/team/launch.htm?hlg=20082009,2,980&fr=false) at about a minute 30 in.
The point is even in a situation where a "barbaric act" ...called by some... we see an act of honor and class. It's just a game/job, yet some people still show class and honor. Why can't that happen in our game? My thoughts are most of today's players are kids, young adults and haven't been taught any class or honor. In an internet game why should they? They can hide behind their internet connections and not face any consequences for their actions. They can act like an bellybutton because nobody can call them on it.
However, if the community calls them on it would they learn? I think so, most of these guys aren't stupid, just uneducated . Example.... In the old days at AWIII everyone who was "cool" had a kill macro. After you made a kill you ran your macro, it was kinda like a lion roaring to let everyone know he had made a kill. Most of them where funny and creative. However, AH was much too classy for any of the frivolity :P well any rate it was frowned on. The community came down on ANYONE who ran one and they learned very quickly not to do it.
Whats needed is the community to stand up and say we aren't going to take this crap any more and train those that step outside the line. I'm not saying to stop all trash talking, but at a point it does cross a line and the community in stead of egging on the combatants should work to defuse the situation. Big squads CO should man up and create fights on their squad nights in stead of slinking around in the bush looking for undefended bases to grab quick and run. Players should learn NOT to fly directly into the face of an enemy. Learn to attack with a plan, and string together a couple of maneuvers.
This game use to be so much more fun and challenging that it is today, and it could be again.
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The game HAS changed, it use to have honor, and class. Todays players act like they are the dregs of the earth, its sometimes embarrassing to see their interaction on the boards and radio. I hope that it will change AGAIN and go back to the way t was.
It won't change until there are "hard coded rules" with consequences for infractions! You don't need to "point out" anything to me, I've been on this earth long enough to realize "what is" and what used to be/could be...but I digress. This game "is what it is" and is determined by the "majority" of players...or as you said "dregs of the earth"
Are you familiar with the term "management by momentum" ? Seems to apply with this game, ie, the vast majority of players subscribe to the simple rules I put forth in my original post...and until there are rules (not to be confused with "fair play/honor') the GAME will continue as you see it today..there is NOTHING you can do to decrease that momentum...other than express your opinion, as I have mine.
Pointing out how it was I hope to show others....like you... who seem to believe that the slum we play in now is the "be all and end all" of game play, isn't the only way to go, it can get better.
See above....
As much as I'd like to continue this thread, reality beckons... :cool: :salute
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Ever vulch anyone?
I vulch when it's nessesary. You know that I am in a squad that likes to base capture, and I think at the time, I was tring to take a base.
Now, like in the last two tours, I haven't vulched.
Oh, and BTW, talk to HiTech, see what he thinks about vulching. :aok
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The game HAS changed, it use to have honor, and class. .
In Gretzky's book, he talks about getting in a fight and having his bell rung. The other guy stops punching and actually holds him up. Heheheh.
I got in a fight once and had a guy say "I'm done." as I got him to the ice. I stopped, but once you are on the ice the linesmen pounce so it only saved him a whallop or two.
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Todays players act like they are the dregs of the earth,
If you think anyone in AH2 acts like the dregs of the earth, I can only conclude that you are fortunate enough not to have much interaction with the dregs of the earth.
My thoughts are most of today's players are kids, young adults and haven't been taught any class or honor.
You do know that your great-great-great-great-grandparents said the exact same thing about your great-great-great-grandparents' generation, don't you?
In an internet game why should they? They can hide behind their internet connections and not face any consequences for their actions. They can act like an bellybutton because nobody can call them on it.
That is a problem, but I don't think it's a generational thing. I've seen boards where the average age was over 50 but they had the same problem.
However, if the community calls them on it would they learn? I think so, most of these guys aren't stupid, just uneducated.
Agree with you there. But you have to do it politely (even though they aren't being polite) or you'll only alienate them. And some of the things you'd like people to be called on are not ones on which a consensus exists that they are bad.
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I vulch when it's nessesary. You know that I am in a squad that likes to base capture, and I think at the time, I was tring to take a base.
Now, like in the last two tours, I haven't vulched.
Oh, and BTW, talk to HiTech, see what he thinks about vulching. :aok
You simply can't call vulching "fighting with honor" irrespective of what Dale thinks about it. No you weren't trying to take a base... you were alone at the base and vulched through the ack. You even apologized, admitting it was a crappy thing to do. It's not that big of a deal, but it shows that you are not above reproach.
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So is it the general consensus that having 'virtual honor' in a game where the main objective is to kill the other guy is kind of silly?
ack-ack
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To quote the Great Gurney Halleck: "Honor is for cattle, and loveplay!"
The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in. He must reflect what is projected upon him. And he must have a strong sense of the sardonic. This is what uncouples him from belief in his own pretensions. The sardonic is all that permits him to move within himself. Without this quality, even occasional greatness will destroy a man.
from Collected Sayings of Muad'Dib by the Princess Irulan
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I honor the fight. I make cold merges and avoid the HO. I usually don't stop my attack until an enemy plane is down and I do shoot at chutes if there isn't anything else to do. I also don't gang people and will usually mock the 5 or 6 chasing one red plane.
Except Spitfires. They are the dweebiest of the dweeby and anything goes against them. :devil
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Why don't you guys go try pissing up a rope? Honor is what each person feels it is. Every pilot who does something you don't agree with is going to have a perfectly good (at least in their mind) reason for doing it.
HOing? If you're in my sights, I'm pulling the trigger. I don't care which way your plane is facing.
Ramming? I don't mean to. I was banking on you blowing up before I got to the space you were occupying.
Shooting a chute? Never. That guy is impotent and not able to do anything his friendlies aren't already doing -- checking sixes, etc. And if he wants to walk around in the wilderness looking for something to shoot, he probably craps in a coffee can and wipes his butt with pine cones.
Vulching? By all means, if you're trying to establish a cap and take the base. Don't let them get off the ground.
Bombing the FHs or VHs? Sure. But not to break up the fight. It's to gain the advantage and take ground. This is a war game, and winning the map is the end game. For those of you who whine about the break-up of a furball by some "bomb****", stow it! If you want to play Aaron Burr all night long, go to the DA. The idea in the MA is to win the map!
Kill Stealing? I Try to never do it, and I apologize if I pop a plane someone has saddled. Since I primarily fly Spitfire MkVIIIs, nothing pisses me off more than getting something saddled just to have a 38 or 51 or 190 swoop in and blow them up right in front of me. Same goes for the idiots that fly right into my line of fire. And passing the guy on my six and me to get the guy I'm chasing is the epitome of love muffin!
Checking Sixes? If I see it, I'm calling it.
Shooting a wounded plane? If it's CLEARLY moving out of the fight, not worth my time. Any doubt, then I'm all over it. I've been killed and seen too many kills by smoking, broken, even burning planes to cut them a break.
Mullets? I guess it all depends on how stunted your sense of style is.
I guess it simply to comes down to wanting to be respected as a pilot. And I try to earn that in the way I fly and fight. But you can never make everyone happy.
I've tried to layout the way I look at different situations in the game. And I'm not saying that they are right or wrong. If you agree, I appreciate that. If you disagree, I respect your right to disagree.
I play this game with an historical interest. My squad has a relationship with our real life WWII namesakes and our goal is to live up to their legacy and principles. All I would ask is that you honor the people who lived or died in the machines we now play in cartoon versions of -- by playing with a little dignity.
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Bombing the FHs or VHs? Sure. But not to break up the fight. It's to gain the advantage and take ground. This is a war game, and winning the map is the end game. For those of you who whine about the break-up of a furball by some "bomb****", stow it! If you want to play Aaron Burr all night long, go to the DA. The idea in the MA is to win the map!
Actually it's an Air Combat game. Taking bases is just a sideshow to get combat going. Playing for reset and the reset alone leads to bad gameplay in general.
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Bombing the FHs or VHs? Sure. But not to break up the fight. It's to gain the advantage and take ground. This is a war game, and winning the map is the end game. For those of you who whine about the break-up of a furball by some "bomb****", stow it! If you want to play Aaron Burr all night long, go to the DA. The idea in the MA is to win the map!
********
I play this game with an historical interest. My squad has a relationship with our real life WWII namesakes and our goal is to live up to their legacy and principles. All I would ask is that you honor the people who lived or died in the machines we now play in cartoon versions of -- by playing with a little dignity.
Thanks for reminding me why I stay out of the MAs. Also, how in the world can you square your historical interest with you view of the MA?
- oldman
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You simply can't call vulching "fighting with honor" irrespective of what Dale thinks about it. No you weren't trying to take a base... you were alone at the base and vulched through the ack. You even apologized, admitting it was a crappy thing to do. It's not that big of a deal, but it shows that you are not above reproach.
I heard at the time when I did it, they said that the ack was down and it was all clear to vulch. Yes, I helped them take down the ack then died after it, I came back after being AFK for a couple and still heard that the ack was down. I went down to to find most of the ack was up that I killed, and was already in, and that's why I apologized. I don't vulch with the ack up, and that was the only ever time I have done that. It just so happend to be you at the time.
That's why I said, I try and be honorable in every situation, sometimes, there is just no possible way to do it the honorable way.
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Back IN AW it was considered to be very disrespectful to kill someone in their chute. It was the worst thing to do if you really hated the guy. I still hold that belief and have shot very few of them out in the open.
On Snailman's advice many months ago, I shoot every chute in town range...but thats a different reason all together.
In the MA I don't usually not shoot damaged planes unless I seen them fighting for their survival and making enough kills to get away. If I caused the damage they are dead 1 vs 1 or 2.
In the DA I hardly ever go after them unless i know who it is. Spacy, RC....well any Temp or picker i spot trying to run but mostly guys like them. :aok
We all play the game different. Some learned at different times and some at different ages.
Well said Tool, well said.
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Actually it's an Air Combat game. Taking bases is just a sideshow to get combat going. Playing for reset and the reset alone leads to bad gameplay in general.
That's certainly what it began as back in late 99. Today capturing territory and winning the war are just as dominant in the game as air combat, if not more so.
In truth....based on what I see in the arenas, the air component of this game is almost as much about supporting the taking of territory and winning the war as it is about ACM and air versus air.
AcesHigh has evolved into a larger battlefield game, no matter what the A2A purists would like to believe.
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It's a game,ammo is free, pull the trigger and let it rip. :devil
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Just the Other day i was flying around in a P-51 and came to where the fight was over A10. I was at about 7K or so and Saw and F4F flying about 3K below me. So I dive down and Lock On his six. He goes into a turn and Knowing I can Fallow I Keep my sight on him. He takes me into the Sky where I see his Oil is out. "Great" I think to myself "Easier to kill" but then I stop and think a second. "This Man has fought in battle, and Probably has won Despite the Damaged plane" I am 400 out and climbing. The question rings out inside my head. Should I or Shouldn't I?
I Wave my wings and pull off to the left. As I check the map..the Damaged plane I once thought I could kill was heading Home.
About 5 minutes later I get into a good dogfight with Another P-51. We Scissors around for quite a bit and Then Collide. I loose my oil and Half my right wing. I level off..knowing I have So skill to Fight like this I turn back to base. Amazingly the P-51 i was just fighting took no Damage. As I turn back to my base. the P-51 Dives down from my 12...HOes me..and I end up in the tower.
:huh
I'm ok with People who are Score freaks...getting tens of thousands of perks every tour but people could at least fight with Honor.
When People bail out of their Plane I usually see Another friendly plane dive down and kill the Chute. I myself Will just fly By the chute and keep going. When People Shoot a Chute (Hey It rhymes :) ) It reminds me of a book I once read. A man Bailed out of His P-40 and as he floats down to the Ground A Japanese Zero Dives down and attempts to kill the Chute. He takes many passes but fails to kill the chute. The Japanese pilot returns to base. The Wing commander Chews him out saying it is "Dis-honorable to kill a man who has fought Valiantly" The Pilot Bravely Retorts " Dead Pilots Don't fly another day".
The 2 pilots (the one that bailed and the one that was chewed out) Later on in the book both fight and the Japanese zero pilot Bails out and floats to the ground as his plane plummets to the Ground on fire. the P-40 Pilot zooms past the Chute and they both Wave to each-other.
I just hope this teaches someone something on honor while fighting. I don't say you HAVE to do this...I am Just saying It's my style on fighting. And I would like to see this A bit more too.
:salute
1st lt. Barko Edwards
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I flew with Honor for about 3 weeks but she complained constantly so I dumper her for Fifi..............
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I flew with Honor for about 3 weeks but she complained constantly so I dumper her for Fifi..............
and you've never looked back :) This is a very touching story about a man and his sheeps :D (ya I know you don't put an "s" on sheep in the plural, but it just sounds funny, so I went ahead and took the liberty). Always good to have have a Silat sighting
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That's certainly what it began as back in late 99. Today capturing territory and winning the war are just as dominant in the game as air combat, if not more so.
In truth....based on what I see in the arenas, the air component of this game is almost as much about supporting the taking of territory and winning the war as it is about ACM and air versus air.
AcesHigh has evolved into a larger battlefield game, no matter what the A2A purists would like to believe.
If only the game would evolve with the game-play you might be on to something.
As it is the game is just crowds of sheeple slamming square pegs as hard as they can into round holes, until they wear the corners off.
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Just the Other day i was flying around in a P-51 and came to where the fight was over A10. I was at about 7K or so and Saw and F4F flying about 3K below me. So I dive down and Lock On his six. He goes into a turn and Knowing I can Fallow I Keep my sight on him. He takes me into the Sky where I see his Oil is out. "Great" I think to myself "Easier to kill" but then I stop and think a second. "This Man has fought in battle, and Probably has won Despite the Damaged plane" I am 400 out and climbing. The question rings out inside my head. Should I or Shouldn't I?
I Wave my wings and pull off to the left. As I check the map..the Damaged plane I once thought I could kill was heading Home.
About 5 minutes later I get into a good dogfight with Another P-51. We Scissors around for quite a bit and Then Collide. I loose my oil and Half my right wing. I level off..knowing I have So skill to Fight like this I turn back to base. Amazingly the P-51 i was just fighting took no Damage. As I turn back to my base. the P-51 Dives down from my 12...HOes me..and I end up in the tower.
:huh
I'm ok with People who are Score freaks...getting tens of thousands of perks every tour but people could at least fight with Honor.
When People bail out of their Plane I usually see Another friendly plane dive down and kill the Chute. I myself Will just fly By the chute and keep going. When People Shoot a Chute (Hey It rhymes :) ) It reminds me of a book I once read. A man Bailed out of His P-40 and as he floats down to the Ground A Japanese Zero Dives down and attempts to kill the Chute. He takes many passes but fails to kill the chute. The Japanese pilot returns to base. The Wing commander Chews him out saying it is "Dis-honorable to kill a man who has fought Valiantly" The Pilot Bravely Retorts " Dead Pilots Don't fly another day".
The 2 pilots (the one that bailed and the one that was chewed out) Later on in the book both fight and the Japanese zero pilot Bails out and floats to the ground as his plane plummets to the Ground on fire. the P-40 Pilot zooms past the Chute and they both Wave to each-other.
I just hope this teaches someone something on honor while fighting. I don't say you HAVE to do this...I am Just saying It's my style on fighting. And I would like to see this A bit more too.
:salute
1st lt. Barko Edwards
its a GAME get over it
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I flew with Honor for about 3 weeks but she complained constantly so I dumper her for Fifi..............
:lol
:salute Silat.
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The idea in the MA is to win the map!
Show me where the devs said that. Come one, show me. Go ahead, show me.
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Late arrival in this thread. And IO didnt read all the responses.
Back in Air Warrior for windows (the first version of the game I played) when it was on AOL. There was a certain amount of honor most people used.
during a fight if you suddenly broke off, headed to the deck and toward your own base combined witha call of "Bingo ammo" or "bingo fuel" would more often then not result on the other plane backing off. And giving a "rgr <S> Good fight." And almost as frequently. if the other plane didnt see the message in time and shot you down anyway. they would often apologize for doing so.
Also if you were at an enemy base that you werent trying to capture and saw someone upping. it was pretty standard to let them up and at least leave the base and get some E to work with before you attacked.
Thats somewhat less rare then the pre mentioned. But still rare these days.
There indeed did seem to be a code of honor among those who played
Then as more less then honorable players discovered the game. Or I should say more gamey players joined. That unwritten code started to dwindle.
then you would then only see it in the early morning hours when the numbers were lowest. as the day progressed. and the numbers got larger. The honor evaporated till as is the case now. You rarely see it at all.
Used to be this bothered me. I've since given up. Though I do still occasionally let one go if it was a decent 1 V 1 and it seems to me like the player has a PW or some other obvious damage to the plane. Usually I'll (pull along side if I can)wag my wings to let the other player know Im breaking off intentionally and then I'll peel off with a message of "go home"
As much as I would like to see the return of that unwritten code of honor. I know its probably gone forever. As what many have probably made clear here. Most people just dont care. And if they did once. They dont anymore.
Its a shame really. Its a fun way to play. But not many are interested in that anymore.
Bottom line is you can only control how you play the game. You can only set expectations for yourself.
If you are one of the few that still flies with a code of honor.And can maintain it when seemingly nobody else does I <S> you. because you are a near extinct breed.
Cause for better or worse,most people really dont care anymore.
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I try to fly with a little honor or class , I think I prefer the word class , won't go into what makes the word honor just a little and I mean little too strong for me to apply in here . I don't HO unless way outnumbered or attacking a buff formation , not alot of skill required for that . I think a well planned out and executed vulch is just a frakkin blast did one yesterday with m00t and kappa that had us laughin our heads off . My vulches have nothing to do with score . I kill chutes because I fly neked and the high wind speeds makes my stuff sound like playing cards in bicycle spokes <shudder > I only did that once and I resent those that don't have to consider that angle in their playing style . I think a big problem is smack talk especially when hippocritical . A dewd the other day was raggin someone he and his bud gang banged for hoing . Few minutes before this he had tried to ho me on several passes . Fight starts 1 on 1 me in my fork him in a mk 16 . Roughly co alt . I wear him out when a squaddie of his comes to the fight in a zero . I break off get a lil distance his zero buddy loses interest . I go back in as he kept chasing me . Wear him out again getting ready for a kill shot and his zero buddy shows up again . My SA was not so good this time and attempt to reset gets me kilt after a short chase .This dewd starts talkin smack about how I am nothing but a running stick stir . I find the hipocrisy just a little too much and invite him to 1v1 away from cherry picker lake . he sez sure and starts telling me to hurry up and meet him . I go ahead and augger because his text calls are starting to get a lil shrill . As I am going as fast as I can I ask him What ride he wants to do and what alt he wants to merge . He wont pick one or fuel load just any plane any load but right now . I had to change countries after my augger to get to the right field . I am thinkin this guy gonna up a Zero and who knows what else he gonna try to pull . So I grab a A6m5 25 fuel launch , he is already on the way . So I just say on ALL channel 5k alt for merge and no hoing . I am just getting to 5k get a long vis and he is at 5k alt so I think "maybe I am wrong and he gonna do it right" . As we hit icon range he is in a Zero all right this guy aint tracking . I start my dive to get a lil speed up for the fight . Well he drops maybe 200 feet alt , he dont look real fast to me what is he doing ? I get about 1550 below him lead loop It isn't a 2 turn fight and he is fluttering to the ground w/out a tail . So much for ubber stick its just ubber mouth . I type out LMFAO . His response is "LMFAO right you said 5k merge and then dove all the way to the deck you dweeb" . I respond "again ?" . He is willing . I say "5k alt" again after clarifying 5k is the alt limit . "A6m2 this time" I think to myself . Start heading to his base . This time he is on the deck in a A6m2 lower then the trees . Fight is short and predictable , a lil spiral climb roping and he is heading to the ground with a long stream of burning avgas behind him . Time to lighten up and not be an A-hole , I think . So I type "GF" no response and he is back over at cherrypickstock I guess . Well dewd aint gonna give me a GK or nothing so I talk a lil more smack , pointing out that I aint about much and he wasn't even up to that standard . Was going to suggest he look up some guys who can fight who slum in the DA like batfinkv or Vudak or Spatula or WMLute . Those 4 gents right there are all high quality sticks who got the ability to teach as well . Just to name a few who have helped me out with the learning hairpin in here . Well the fella ran off before I could deliver any of that sage advice . Point is , I seldom if ever believe in absolutes , when it comes to personal behavior . I think if he would of bailed out of his burning paper airplane I woulda even let him go ahead and float on down after the second flight . I think there is little in this game that is a never do or don't do , with one grave exception . NEVER EVER let Silat your sheep !!!!!! Or take a hlbly seriously !!!!
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its a GAME get over it
One worthless post comming right up!
(mines just as worthless as he is, I know :noid)
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its a GAME get over it
There were advantages when it cost per hour to play an online flight sim. Kept the kiddies out.
On another note I ran into, I assume, one of the old guard. After shooting half my wing off he pulled up along side and then peeled off. Of course some Pee 51 dweeb shot me down 15 seconds later. You don't see class like that much anymore.
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I HO everything I see. After the HO, I run for my ack.
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I HO everything I see. After the HO, I run for my ack.
Thats how I left the game, and thats how I plan on returning to the game.
But honestly its a video game.
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Bark0 meet Ack-Ack :rofl
And one further observation concerning Real War: War is War. It's not some surreal 18th century game where pompous aristocrats dress up in silly uniforms and ride around on horses waving swords, all the while talking about "Honor" in warfare. War is killing and being killed. It should be avoided until absolutely unavoidable, then prosecuted with total ruthlessness once it starts. Accepting this reality would prevent many wars from happening, while shortening the ones that do. :salute
<End of Rant>
"It was war. We were defending our country. We had a strict code of honor: you didn't shoot down a cripple and you kept it a fair fight." Captain Wilfrid Reid 'Wop' May, RFC, 13 victories
That's what I fly by...
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"It was war. We were defending our country. We had a strict code of honor: you didn't shoot down a cripple and you kept it a fair fight." Captain Wilfrid Reid 'Wop' May, RFC, 13 victories
That's what I fly by...
Yep, I'm sure his words were in the minds of RAF pilots as they shot down Luftwaffe SAR flying boats and strafed Kriegsmarine boats engaged in SAR operations. Sometimes even with rescued RAF pilots onboard the German SAR craft.
Let's face it, any sense of 'honor' went out the window on that cold April spring morning over Flanders when a Frenchman brought along his trusty rifle with him in his plane and started the 'dishonorable' practice of shooting at another plane.
It's also silly to prize 'honor' in a game where the main goal is to kill the other guy, preferrably by shooting him in the back or with a horde of friends. But then, I'm sure you're a shining beacon of honor with your example of honor in the Dueling Arena. Remind me again how you fight with honor in the DA? Oh yea, you and your other 'tardmates flying above the furball in late war rides picking anything that is already engaged and running from a 1v1.
ack-ack
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"It was war. We were defending our country. We had a strict code of honor: you didn't shoot down a cripple and you kept it a fair fight." Captain Wilfrid Reid 'Wop' May, RFC, 13 victories
That's what I fly by...
Was that after the war or during, cause im sure if he was DEFENDING HIS country he would shoot him down crippled or not to save HIS people
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Many times in engagements you might be faced with situations that require you to make a split second decision that will result in life or death for another player or yourself. Sometimes that decision will result in the most freakish event you could possibly imagine and someone will either be laughing at you or with you. I decided a long time ago that no one leaves alive and so I dont have to hear anyone say 'Oh yeah that guy you let get away chased me down with half a wing and killed me.'
If you see an M8 parked on a knoll with his front end raised he is going to try and shoot you. A guy in a parachute has a .45 and if he has the chance he will kill you. If when you land you fly over a spawn point there will be a flak there to kill you. And if half of your wing is shot off and you try to land someone will dive through fifty miles of ack to vultch you.
Live with it in your own way.
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Yep, I'm sure his words were in the minds of RAF pilots as they shot down Luftwaffe SAR flying boats and strafed Kriegsmarine boats engaged in SAR operations. Sometimes even with rescued RAF pilots onboard the German SAR craft.
Let's face it, any sense of 'honor' went out the window on that cold April spring morning over Flanders when a Frenchman brought along his trusty rifle with him in his plane and started the 'dishonorable' practice of shooting at another plane.
It's also silly to prize 'honor' in a game where the main goal is to kill the other guy, preferrably by shooting him in the back or with a horde of friends. But then, I'm sure you're a shining beacon of honor with your example of honor in the Dueling Arena. Remind me again how you fight with honor in the DA? Oh yea, you and your other 'tardmates flying above the furball in late war rides picking anything that is already engaged and running from a 1v1.
ack-ack
"blah blah blah I'm going to belittle you and how you play the video game because I'm superior"
At least that is all I get out of most of your posts anymore. :rolleyes:
There are just as many stories of honorable actions in the skies as their are merciless ones. Same for the battles on the ground.
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There are just as many stories of honorable actions in the skies as their are merciless ones. Same for the battles on the ground.
I swore I wouldn't get back into this fray, BUT this post really beckons. While there are some "honorable stories" and the key word is some, you can bet the Farm on the fact that the honorable stories are infinitesimally small compared to those that are not honorable..ie, there is NOTHING honorable about war. So, to further illustrate: Scenario: Pilot in a FW 190, positioning his aircraft for a "run" on a formation of B17's...he targets the "tail gun and the Ball turret and squeeze the trigger.
Do you actually think the pilot in the 190 thought about the fact that his guns were gonna reduce the airmen in those positions to soup? Same principal apply s to all combat pilots...kill or be killed pure and simple.
Do you think the B17 pilots hesitated dropping their ords because there were people in the factories/cities? Sure they may have had misgivings, but, they did what they were trained to do...Kill or be killed!
Side note: Normally most of AckAck's posts really are somewhat abrasive, however this time he's got it "nailed" (Whew!! that was a really difficult admission) :)
*Opinions are like armpits, occasionally they stink..my above opinion/analogy may stink, but remember this: if you think it does, you own the problem. :cool:
BAck to reality..*POOF*
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I swore I wouldn't get back into this fray, BUT this post really beckons. While there are some "honorable stories" and the key word is some, you can bet the Farm on the fact that the honorable stories are infinitesimally small compared to those that are not honorable..ie, there is NOTHING honorable about war. So, to further illustrate: Scenario: Pilot in a FW 190, positioning his aircraft for a "run" on a formation of B17's...he targets the "tail gun and the Ball turret and squeeze the trigger.
Do you actually think the pilot in the 190 thought about the fact that his guns were gonna reduce the airmen in those positions to soup? Same principal apply s to all combat pilots...kill or be killed pure and simple.
Do you think the B17 pilots hesitated dropping their ords because there were people in the factories/cities? Sure they may have had misgivings, but, they did what they were trained to do...Kill or be killed!
Side note: Normally most of AckAck's posts really are somewhat abrasive, however this time he's got it "nailed" (Whew!! that was a really difficult admission) :)
*Opinions are like armpits, occasionally they stink..my above opinion/analogy may stink, but remember this: if you think it does, you own the problem. :cool:
BAck to reality..*POOF*
We could go back and forth on it. The 190 who found the b17 crippled and flying in the wrong direction? Came alongside and directed them back to the coast.
War is hell. No doubt about it.
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It's also silly to prize 'honor' in a game where the main goal is to kill the other guy, preferrably by shooting him in the back or with a horde of friends. But then, I'm sure you're a shining beacon of honor with your example of honor in the Dueling Arena. Remind me again how you fight with honor in the DA? Oh yea, you and your other 'tardmates flying above the furball in late war rides picking anything that is already engaged and running from a 1v1.
High above the enemy...
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq73/TheKinSlayer_1993/AHII/formation.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m56/alecksismeboo/ahss54.jpg)
Runnin from 1vs1
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m56/alecksismeboo/Splash1.jpg) (flyin my uber rides)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m56/alecksismeboo/ahss29.jpg)
See, we're not afraid to meet this sticky end...
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m56/alecksismeboo/ahss50.jpg)
Sorry for the lack of pictures, I'm at families house in Montana, so I only have what's on my photobucket...
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alot of people I am surprised to see, think there is no Honor here :confused:
I just cant understand that, ya its a game, but don't all games have honor or class?
I am vexed by the lack of understanding, that honor is, something that has a place in every aspect of ones life...
maybe I am just a Barbarian who is alone in this very turned upside down world...
where the rulers....
alright I am gonna stop here......................... ..............
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Ok so last night took off in a typhoon and went and engaged incoming to our base. First one i shot at was a zero that was trying to shoot down a freindly plane and my guns made him burst into flames. He disengaged my freindley and I figured at that point let him go hes going to try and make it back to base. unfortantly he blew apart enroute back i got a kil message.
My next kill was a clean kill off a 109.
At this point at 100 rounds left and knowing im not that good and be nice to land two kills i headed back to my base. Im also not great at landing so i line up runway throttle back drop gears and touchdown but my plane went into the grass a bit.
I did not want to seee you have ditched so throttled on a tarmac and killed engines.
I hit esc key and was just clicking end sortie when BOOM! DOOM#1 blew me away.
I was so disgusted i just logged.
To me if your the enemy and you landed congrats im not going to blow off the tarmac for my own evil giggle.
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I hit esc key and was just clicking end sortie when BOOM! DOOM#1 blew me away.
I was so disgusted i just logged.
To me if your the enemy and you landed congrats im not going to blow off the tarmac for my own evil giggle.
Don't worry too much, especially about DOOM. He's easy to shoot down, he has to vulch for most of his kills.
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the only type of honor I play with is a !!S!! were it is deserved ,and trying my best to check 6 the good guys...I do not ho unless I have to generally. The only reason being is I usually loose those to a terdburgler who is on his 2 week trial :rofl Other than that I will kill anyway I can.By the fastest and most brutal way possible :salute
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We could go back and forth on it. The 190 who found the b17 crippled and flying in the wrong direction? Came alongside and directed them back to the coast.
War is hell. No doubt about it.
Wouldn't be much back and forth. The "Acts of Valor" were notable precisely because they were rare.
For every 109 pilot like Franz Stigler that would escort a cripple to the coast, there were probably hundreds who would have simply followed orders and shot it down.
(http://www.stormbirdsannex.com/images/prints/Stigler_Brown.jpg)
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Wouldn't be much back and forth. The "Acts of Valor" were notable precisely because they were rare.
...there were probably hundreds who would have simply followed orders and shot it down.
Yep and this is the story of one of those cases. The only reasons Johnson made it home was the Butcher Bird was dry of 20mm cannon rounds and it finally ran out of machine gun rounds while trying to shoot down a very crippled Jug.
With the coming of May, escort operations begin. The 78th claims one German fighter and two probables while escorting heavy bombers to Antwerp. In exchange, three of the 78th’s P-47’s fail to make it home. The 56th is doing even worse. After 31 combat missions, they have yet to claim a single enemy fighter against their several losses. Eventually, they score their first victory during a sweep over Rouen on June 12th. On the very next day, Robert Johnson got his first kill, blasting an Fw 190 to pieces. However, on the 26th, the 56th lost five Thunderbolts with four more shot to pieces. All they can claim is two German fighters.
It was on this mission that Johnson’s P-47 is crippled by enemy fire. Refusing to break formation (after being chewed out for doing just that when he gained his first victory) Johnson repeatedly tried to warn his Group of attacking Fw 190’s. For some reason, no one heard his frantic radio calls. Johnson’s fighter was clobbered by German 20mm cannon shells. The engine was hit, the hydraulic system shot out, spraying Johnson with fluid. His canopy was jammed closed and his oxygen system destroyed. The leaking hydraulic fluid and oxygen came in contact with each other and burst into flame inside the cockpit. Fortunately, it was only a flash fire, but Johnson was properly singed, losing his eyebrows and taking on the appearance of a cooked lobster. Having flown without his goggles (they were being repaired), the mist of hydraulic fluid nearly blinded him and caused swelling that threatened to eliminate what limited vision he retained.
Without oxygen, hypoxia began to cloud Johnson’s reasoning. In a panic, he fought to get out of the wrecked P-47. The canopy would not slide back more than a few inches. Jamming his feet against the shot up instrument panel, he pulled with all his considerable strength. No luck, it would not budge. One of the side plexiglass panels had been blown out of the canopy. Johnson tried to squeeze through it, but his parachute snagged. No sense in climbing out unless he brings his chute with him. What to do?
While Johnson was struggling with his situation, the P-47 was rapidly descending. As he lost altitude, the effects of hypoxia were wearing off and the cobwebs began to dissipate. Quite suddenly, it dawned on him that the Thunderbolt was actually flying. Upon this realization, Johnson decided to see how far he could nurse it towards the English channel. He eased off the throttle and the Pratt & Whitney radial stopped its shaking. The big fighter answered its controls with authority. Johnson was elated. Maybe, just maybe, he could make it home.
Then he saw it. Sliding in from his left rear, a fighter closes in. But, whose fighter? Then, he recognized it. A beautiful but deadly Fw-190 with a gleaming yellow nose. Flying just off Johnson's wing, the German pilot scans the shot up P-47. Wondering what is going through the German pilot's mind, Johnson watches as he eases away and swings around in a graceful turn; sliding in behind the Thunderbolt. Knowing full well what’s to come, Johnson grabs the seat adjuster lever and drops the seat full down where he is afforded the full protection of the armor plate behind the seat. Johnson thinks to himself; “let him shoot, this Thunderbolt can’t be hurt anymore than it already is.” The Fw 190 opens up on the flying wreck. Like hail on a tin roof, 7.92 mm rounds pour into the Jug. What, no 20 mm? Thankfully, these have all been expended in some other fight. Johnson sits, hunkered down behind the armor as the German pilot ripsaws the battered Thunderbolt with hundreds of rounds.
Finally, his anger building, Johnson decides that he must do something. Kicking hard right and left rudder, the big fighter yaws right, then left. This scrubs off speed and caught off guard, the German cannot avoid over-running the P-47. Johnson sees him go by, but is unable to see anything through his oil covered windscreen. Shoving his head out through the shattered canopy, Johnson sees the Fw 190 turn gently to the right. Seeing an opportunity, he kicks hard right rudder, skidding the Thunderbolt, Johnson depresses the gun switch button. A stream of tracers heads towards the German fighter. But, it doesn’t falter.
Instead, it continues around in a perfect turn and slides in alongside the perforated P-47 once again. Johnson makes eye contact with the German pilot. He can see the dismay on the German’s face. There is no way that this American fighter can still be flying. It is impossible that it could absorb such a pounding and keep on flying. The Focke Wulf eases out to the right, and slides back into perfect firing position once again. Johnson cowers behind his armor plate as 7.92 mm bullets rain upon the utterly mangled Thunderbolt. Just when Johnson is convinced that it will never stop, he stamps down hard on the rudder pedals again. This time the German expects just such a move and pulls off his throttle. The dappled 190 eases up on Johnson’s wing once again, the German pilot shaking his head in silent amazement. They fly this way for several minutes. Finally, the German waves an informal salute and slides in behind Johnson’s invulnerable fighter for the third time. As before, the Jug is pounded by streams of lead. The Fw 190 swings gently from left to right, spraying the indestructible P-47 with an incessant barrage of machine gun fire. Suddenly, it stops. The Focke Wulf eases alongside again. The German looks over the Thunderbolt. The pilot stares with a look of admiration on his face. Pulling even with Johnson, the 190 wags its wings in salute and peels away in a climbing turn. Having fired his last rounds at the stubborn Jug, the German heads for home, certainly convinced that the mauled fighter will never make home.
Finally free of the Focke Wulf, Johnson suddenly realizes that during the entire attack, he had depressed his mike button. Releasing the button, the accented voice of an Englishman fills his headphones. “Hello, hello, climb if you can, you’re getting very faint”. It was Air-Sea Rescue. They had heard the entire fight, including Johnson cursing his tormentor. Johnson’s spirit soars, and he responds, “I’ll try, but I’m down to less than 1,000 feet”. Shouting with joy, he eases back on the stick. Not only will the Thunderbolt fly, hot damn, She’ll climb! Slowly, Johnson nurses the P-47 up to 8,000 feet. The big fighter hauls herself up, instilling greater confidence in a man who was ready to bail out but a few minutes before. “Blue four, blue four, I have you loud and clear. Steer three-four–five degrees.”
“I can’t do that mayday control, my compass is shot out” answers Johnson.
The calm British voice issues instructions to “turn slightly right”, and continues to provide course corrections until, after 40 minutes Johnson spots the coast of Dover through broken clouds. Directed to an emergency airfield, Johnson circles but cannot spot the sod runway. After checking his fuel, he pushes the mike button;
“Mayday control, this is blue four, I’m ok now. I’m going to fly onto Manston. I’d like to land back at my outfit.”
Johnson continues on to Manston. Contacting the tower, he describes his situation. The last test comes as he moves the landing gear lever to the “down” position. Not only does the gear drop and lock, but by some miracle, the tires have not been hit. Easing onto the grass, Johnson has no flaps and no brakes. The big fighter does not slow and is heading towards a row of RAF Spitfires and Typhoons parked at the end of the runway. In desperation, he stomps on the left rudder pedal. The Thunderbolt ground loops and slides backwards in between two of the British fighters just like it had been parked there.
Slowly, Johnson gathers his wits and removing his parachute, squeezes out of the shattered canopy. Once on the ground he realizes the extent of the damage. Not only to the plane, but to himself. A bullet had nicked his nose. His hands were bleeding from the shrapnel of 20 mm shells that exploded in the cockpit. Two 7.92 mm rounds had hit him in his leg. 21 holes from 20 mm shells are counted in the airframe. He quits counting bullet holes when he reaches 100. It seems as if every square foot of the fighter has a hole in it. Somehow, the P-47 had shrugged off the damage and refused to die. Johnson will recover quickly. The Thunderbolt will not. It was scrapped on the spot, very little could be salvaged that was not damaged.
ack-ack
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Honor in here is a tough nut to define. If you have an honor code and enjoy playing that way. Your going to find that it takes more honor to stay honorable then it takes to be honorable in here.
Very few in AH respect any kind of honor code.
<S>
That is sad , Honor is what what makes each person different .
I worked for the JAPANESE and let me tell you they have honor in everything they do . From documentation right up to there Family .
And you want to know why they own us!!!!!
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the only type of honor I play with is a !!S!! were it is deserved ,and trying my best to check 6 the good guys...
Kudos. :aok
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Wouldn't be much back and forth. The "Acts of Valor" were notable precisely because they were rare.
For every 109 pilot like Franz Stigler that would escort a cripple to the coast, there were probably hundreds who would have simply followed orders and shot it down.
(http://www.stormbirdsannex.com/images/prints/Stigler_Brown.jpg)
He was a true war hero. :rock
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kill the chute if he is not getting back to the tower he is sitrep with the guys still flying around. Another pair of eyes. If he is alone then fly by and wave, it takes awhile longer for him to get in the air that way.
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Yep and this is the story of one of those cases. The only reasons Johnson made it home was the Butcher Bird was dry of 20mm cannon rounds and it finally ran out of machine gun rounds while trying to shoot down a very crippled Jug.
ack-ack
"Slowly, Johnson gathers his wits and removing his parachute, squeezes out of the shattered canopy. Once on the ground he realizes the extent of the damage. Not only to the plane, but to himself. A bullet had nicked his nose. His hands were bleeding from the shrapnel of 20 mm shells that exploded in the cockpit. Two 7.92 mm rounds had hit him in his leg. 21 holes from 20 mm shells are counted in the airframe. He quits counting bullet holes when he reaches 100. It seems as if every square foot of the fighter has a hole in it. Somehow, the P-47 had shrugged off the damage and refused to die. Johnson will recover quickly. The Thunderbolt will not. It was scrapped on the spot, very little could be salvaged that was not damaged."
And not a single blackout. Especially when he was landing.
Wow. Imagine that.
Pilot wounds must have been undermodeled back then ;)
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That is sad , Honor is what what makes each person different .
I worked for the JAPANESE and let me tell you they have honor in everything they do . From documentation right up to there Family .
And you want to know why they own us!!!!!
Own us ? How ? The bloated Japanese economy has been suffering for a decade . Honor in everything ? People born of a Japanese parent and a non Japanese , in Japan , have no chance of ever being a citizen . Rejecting your own is not my idea of honor in everything .
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Wouldn't be much back and forth. The "Acts of Valor" were notable precisely because they were rare.
For every 109 pilot like Franz Stigler that would escort a cripple to the coast, there were probably hundreds who would have simply followed orders and shot it down.
(http://www.stormbirdsannex.com/images/prints/Stigler_Brown.jpg)
I met the artist and the bomber pilot at the reno Air Races about 20 years ago. We were flying sparky (p51d) in the races. The artist told me he got both pilots (axis/allies) to meet and sign the painting. Cool thing thye are now (were?) friends and met every year (mostly) after that.