Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Lusche on May 07, 2009, 05:59:28 PM
-
All those "discussions" about quality both of the game as well of the players made me look up the distribution of K/D in fighter mode in LW arenas.
Granted, K/d doesn't tell much about the actual fighter quality of a player, but when looking as the arena as a whole, it's a interesting statistical parameter. And while you can't say from K/D if a player with 8.0 is "better" than another with 3.0, it seems to be a common consensus that a player that can't get a K/D of 1 isn't really "good" and that one constantly below 0.5 does more or less "suck"
But how many "suck" that way? How many do reach the 1.0 breakeven point at all?
I sampled two tours, the last full tour (111) as well as one from the "glorious past" 7 years ago, tour 24.
Tour 111.
I found that
- only ~37% of all players managed to get a K/D better than 0.5
- only ~22% of all players reached 1.0 or better
- only 9% ended up with a K/D of 2.0 or better
- the 50% threshold was at about 0.3
Tour 24
If the general skill level at that time had really been much better back then (with more WWII aviation enthusiasts and much less "XBox/Quake gamers" as it's been frequently called), I would had expected a different, somewhat more balanced distribution. Of course, there would still had been a small number of players at the top getting high K/D's, but I would had expected a little bit more even numbers at the lower and medium ranks.
I found that
- about 37% of all players had a K/D better 0.5
- about 19% got 1.0 or better
- about 6% reached K/D 2.0 or better
- the 50% threshold was at about 0.27
We can see, the 50% threshold is slightly higher today and the minority of players getting K/D 2.0 or better (and thus spanking the huge majority of our virtual pilots) isn't as small as it used to be (increased by a whopping 50%). Of course, the significance of these numbers is highly debatable ;)
(http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/9825/tour24.jpg)
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8917/tour111.jpg)
Feel free to draw your own or none conclusions at all :)
-
Interesting, very very interesting. From those numbers, it would appear, that the glorious past was pretty similar to the sucky (according to certain people) today.
I wonder if the folks who were the top of the food chain 7 years ago were fondly remembering glorious days gone by? Is the truth perhaps more along the lines that the folks at the top of the food chain now simply have a "rose colored" view of the exciting days when they were coming up the ranks?
-
Woo Hoo Graphs. you haven't used one in your post for a little while.
Maybe we need a Wednesday graph
-
Would the change in the hit bubble have anything to do with that? I have no clue what I'm talking about so everyone is free to go ahead and tell me so :lol.
-
Interesting, very very interesting. From those numbers, it would appear, that the glorious past was pretty similar to the sucky (according to certain people) today.
Yes and no. You surely can't derive any conclusions about gameplay quality from those numbers. They don't show if anybody got his kills or deaths by vulching,ganging, B'nZ or by noble 1v1 turnfighting.
But I often read on 200 about how nowadays the majority of players are only unskilled "ADD squeakers". But it seems to be not worse than 7 years ago...
-
yeah but how many people were subscribed 7 years ago? I would think totals subscriptions have doubled since then.
BTW, good topic :aok
-
Lusche,
Did you total the different arena's for tour 111 or just look at late war only?
Interesting topic, thanks for the graph.
-
Lusche,
Did you total the different arena's for tour 111 or just look at late war only?
Interesting topic, thanks for the graph.
Only late war, because that's the equivalent to the old Main Arena. Also EW & MW have only about 1% respectively 6% of all current "main arena" kills.
-
Do MW and EW differ at all? I could imagine EW being different, however I'd imagine that MW is largely similar?
-
however I'd imagine that MW is largely similar?
MW 111:
K/D 0.5 and better ~29%
K/D 1.0 and better ~17%
K/D 2.0 and better ~9%
50% threshold is well below 0.1
But it's a very small arena, good chance that numbers may vary substantially over several tours.
-
Lushe, I think we would also have to take into consideration the plane set during Tour 24 and Tour 111. I wasn't around during Tour 24 so this is where some of the "old timers" could step in and offer their opinions. I would also suggest that updates to plane modeling may also be a factor.
Any other thoughts on this?
Obie
-
Lushe, I think we would also have to take into consideration the plane set during Tour 24 and Tour 111. I wasn't around during Tour 24 so this is where some of the "old timers" could step in and offer their opinions. I would also suggest that updates to plane modeling may also be a factor.
Any other thoughts on this?
Obie
Hmmm... I wonder how the plane modeling could have any impact? I mean the planes are the same for everyone in any given tour?
-
Hmmm... I wonder how the plane modeling could have any impact? I mean the planes are the same for everyone in any given tour?
Yes that is true. But I was thinking of the k/d ratio improving or declining based upon what planes were available. Look at it this way, If everyone is armed with knives, there will be a certain level of deaths. Now arm those people with AK 47s. Wouldn't the k/d ratio go up because of better tools to work with? Or am I over-thinking this?
I'm thinking along the lines of ENY. There are many pilots who don't fly uber planes, they prefer the challenge. So wouldn't that effect the k/d ratio? More planes to work with now than seven (7) years ago.
Obie
-
Would the change in the hit bubble have anything to do with that? I have no clue what I'm talking about so everyone is free to go ahead and tell me so :lol.
Since there has never been a hit "bubble" in Aces High, I would say that it has neither changed nor had any effect.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
:aok
wrongway
-
Yes that is true. But I was thinking of the k/d ratio improving or declining based upon what planes were available. Look at it this way, If everyone is armed with knives, there will be a certain level of deaths. Now arm those people with AK 47s. Wouldn't the k/d ratio go up because of better tools to work with? Or am I over-thinking this?
You may be over-thinking. ;)
Players engage and shoot each other down in AH. Whether they fly Spit V or Spit XVI - in the end one of them is dead. And each period of AH had their specific "uber planes"
-
You may be over-thinking. ;)
Players engage and shoot each other down in AH. Whether they fly Spit V or Spit XVI - in the end one of them is dead. And each period of AH had their specific "uber planes"
But my question is still this; Was the playing field the same for everyone in Tour 24 or did the availability of new planes over the years possibly change the playing field for the new and less experienced players in Tour 111?
Here's another example from my experience: When I started (thinking back a few years now), I think I flew mainly Jugs and Ponies. Now I fly mainly the Spit 9. My k/d ratio was barely over 1.0% when I started. Probably more like .75%. Now, even though flying a "non-uber" plane, it's (usually) around 2.5%. So what changed?
This could be put to rest if we could see the break down of the plane kills in Tour 24 in comparison to now.
I'm going to have a beer and think this over a bit more. (I'm sure the wife will be thrilled to hear this one.) :)
<S> Lushe
Obie
-
Here's another example from my experience: When I started (thinking back a few years now), I think I flew mainly Jugs and Ponies. Now I fly mainly the Spit 9. My k/d ratio was barely over 1.0% when I started. Probably more like .75%. Now, even though flying a "non-uber" plane, it's (usually) around 2.5%. So what changed?
Your skill. :)
-
Look at it this way, If everyone is armed with knives, there will be a certain level of deaths. Now arm those people with AK 47s. Wouldn't the k/d ratio go up because of better tools to work with?
No, if anything it would go down.
-
One explanation could be that the skill levels of the players back then were all more closely matched. If ther was much less separation of skill levels, the average K/D would come down, or closer to 1.0... just a thought.
-
In which tour did AH2 come out?
-
One explanation could be that the skill levels of the players back then were all more closely matched. If ther was much less separation of skill levels, the average K/D would come down, or closer to 1.0... just a thought.
I agree. Think of it this way - when the game was newer, a greater number of players had the same level of experience which results in a player base closer in overall skill level. As the game goes on and veterans remain and build skills, new players are now introduced to a game with a greater number of 'top guns' than the previous generation had to battle when they started out. On the downside, vets may detect a degradation in game quality from days gone by which could just be due to the game being larger and the talent pool diluted from when they started. Add to that their years of experience and you may find some guys who no longer find things as challenging as they once did.
Its kinda like pro sports with expansion teams, longer seasons and expanded rosters compared to ballplayers of old.
-
Interesting, Lusche. exactly what I had suspected from just looking at a few dozen raw numbers.
It does appear to confirm my suspicion that some folks here have an absurd notion of what constitutes "average".
Thanks for crunching the numbers!
-
I think I'm not exaggerating too much If I dare to say:
The average guys main function is to provide kills for the small, but dominating minority of above-average players.
And that's why the war game in AH is important for the game (and probably HTC's business): It gives all those majority "standard" players the opportunity to have fun and to get a feeling of success. A player may "suck" in aerial combat, but his constant efforts for his team (be it his squad only or his chesspiece country) may still help to secure victory in a battle. Not many players are masochistic enough to enjoy being shot down again and again without "achieving" anything.Those few that declare that the sole source of fun and satisfaction should come from pure dogfighting alone are usually the definitely above-average ones ;)
-
I agree. Think of it this way - when the game was newer, a greater number of players had the same level of experience which results in a player base closer in overall skill level. As the game goes on and veterans remain and build skills, new players are now introduced to a game with a greater number of 'top guns' than the previous generation had to battle when they started out.
Right. So the median k/d should go down significantly. Since it hasn't, that indicates that the new players are at least as good if not better than those of 6 years ago - they're getting comparable scores against tougher opponents.
On the downside, vets may detect a degradation in game quality from days gone by which could just be due to the game being larger and the talent pool diluted from when they started. Add to that their years of experience and you may find some guys who no longer find things as challenging as they once did.
They degradation they're seeing is only relative their own improvement. If "average" equals "about like me," then of course when you improve to where you're in the top 5%, 95% of pilots are going to be below average by your standard. But it's only your yardstick that's changed.
If you're on an invisible elevator going up, it would be easy to conclude that the rest of the world is going down, at least if you don't bother to think about it very hard.
Its kinda like pro sports with expansion teams, longer seasons and expanded rosters compared to ballplayers of old.
It's nothing whatsoever like that. Pro sports recruits are an elite pre-selected through an exacting system of farm, collegiate, and high school teams. If you were taking in the known top 1% and now you're getting the top 1% and the next 1%, the quality drops. AH2 has no such preselection; its intake always has been and always will be a random cross-section of the population screened only by interest in the subject matter and having been reached by advertising - which will have an insignificant effect on skill level.
Of course, none of this says anything about whether the quality of play has degraded.
-
I think I'm not exaggerating too much If I dare to say:
The average guys main function is to provide kills for the small, but dominating majority of above-average players.
I assume you meant to say "dominating minority," but yes, exactly. And what you see so much of here is that minority whining and griping that the peasants are forgetting their place.
And that's why the war game in AH is important for the game (and probably HTC's business): It gives all those majority "standard" players the opportunity to have fun and to get a feeling of success. A player may "suck" in aerial combat, but his constant efforts for his team (be it his squad only or his chesspiece country) may still help to secure victory in a battle. Not many players are masochistic enough to enjoy being shot down again and again without "achieving" anything.Those few that declare that the sole source of fun and satisfaction should come from pure dogfighting alone are usually the definitely above-average ones ;)
What? You mean they expect to have FUN?!?!? :O That's just spoiled kids today expecting "instant gratification". They're not allowed to have fun until they've trained for five years to get as good as Steve and m00t. If we let them have fun, they'll have no motivation to improve!
-
I assume you meant to say "dominating minority,"
oooops... yes of course
-
Right. So the median k/d should go down significantly. Since it hasn't, that indicates that the new players are at least as good if not better than those of 6 years ago - they're getting comparable scores against tougher opponents.
no no no and no. The veteran players who have stuck around now have higher K/d than they used to because there are a lot more easy targets around. Back when there was more parity, the players had a harder time excelling.
-
I think I'm not exaggerating too much If I dare to say:
The average guys main function is to provide kills for the small, but dominating minority of above-average players.
And that's why the war game in AH is important for the game (and probably HTC's business): It gives all those majority "standard" players the opportunity to have fun and to get a feeling of success. A player may "suck" in aerial combat, but his constant efforts for his team (be it his squad only or his chesspiece country) may still help to secure victory in a battle. Not many players are masochistic enough to enjoy being shot down again and again without "achieving" anything.Those few that declare that the sole source of fun and satisfaction should come from pure dogfighting alone are usually the definitely above-average ones ;)
This is precisely what I believe.
+1 :aok :salute
-
I assume you meant to say "dominating minority," but yes, exactly. And what you see so much of here is that minority whining and griping that the peasants are forgetting their place.
You know, this parallels the larger society...
The low used to resent their betters...and ape their manners, dress, and morals, and otherwise do everything they could to join them.
Now the common preach being common as the highest virtue obtainable...in R/L and in-game.
-
Those few that declare that the sole source of fun and satisfaction should come from pure dogfighting alone are usually the definitely above-average ones ;)
Point of technicallity...
What may come off as "the sole source of fun and satisfaction should come from pure dogfighting" is likely not always the case, but more frustration from the number of players who are simply unwilling to engage in any kind of fight that is not ridiculously lopsided in their favor...which by the way isn't really a fight as far as I'm concerned. The difference between now and then is that the population has polarized a bit. There are sects of majority players that are more than happy to set and achive objectives with the least amount of resistance (read fighting) as possible. Which is ok I guess, but then we have to listen to them pat themselves on the back for achiving what amounts to nothing while risking nothing. What "those few" want is probably somewhere in the middle. A little bit of effort to achive some individual skills, and some willingness to mix it up once in awhile instead of running from a co-alt dot before it even gets into icon range just because they don't have a horde there to back them up.
Thing is that most of the guys doing the complaining are more than willing to help individuals learn. Quite frankly the attitude from the other side toward those willing to help has been doing nothing but inflaming things.
-
Great thread, thanks for the research Lusche. Enjoying the feedback.... :rock
-
The low used to resent their betters...and ape their manners, dress, and morals, and otherwise do everything they could to join them.
Did I miss something, or didn't we have a revolution to get rid of all that nonsense?
IIRC what happened was we grew up and realized that believing you're too good to work for a living, being the product of generations of inbreeding, and having ancestors who owned tin suits and pointy sticks doesn't actually make you "better".
-
Oh thought we might make it through 2 pages without the horde being brought up.
Nice research Lusche intresting :salute
-
Did I miss something, or didn't we have a revolution to get rid of all that nonsense?
IIRC what happened was we grew up and realized that believing you're too good to work for a living, being the product of generations of inbreeding, and having ancestors who owned tin suits and pointy sticks doesn't actually make you "better".
I was thinking more of the ideal of lady and gentleman we used to have, not inbred title holders. It isn't a matter of pedigree, although the bit about falling apples and trees is still statistically sound.
EDIT: For instance, the "thinking you are too good to work for a living" thing, that is a good example of what I mean. To clarify, I don't care whether you work or live off a trust fund or live off roots and berries in the woods, but the idea that one is entitled to someone else's money has permeated the common man.
FURTHER EDIT: The guys who owned the weapons, armor, and most importantly, skills and balls to use them, well, they WERE better than their fellow-man. But over many many generations, apples can roll quite far from the original tree indeed. :devil
-
no no no and no. The veteran players who have stuck around now have higher K/d than they used to because there are a lot more easy targets around. Back when there was more parity, the players had a harder time excelling.
Right. No one actually improved their skills while playing this game for 5 years, the 500 million people in the developed world who've never played it all got stupider.
Some guy named Occam called, he wants to speak to you. :rolleyes:
-
I don't think any conclusions can be drawn with the limited information available, to attempt to do so would be rife with conjecture and hyperbole.
-
I tend to agree with Del there.
Interesting to ponder though.
IMO the skill has DROPPED. You take any 2-weeker and stick him in a spit16 and he can STILL get multiple kills with no skill and repeat the process.
In tour 24 you didn't have this crutch. To do the same in any other spit would be the Spit5 or Spit9, both of which are slow as hell compared to the 40mph-faster Spit16.
In Tour 24 newbies might be able to run, or might be able to turn, but now? Now they can outrun and outturn almost anything they encounter (oh, and let's not forget outclimb, out accelerate, oh yeah and outroll!).
So, if we get this new, super, wonderful, crutch of a plane that catapults any loser into "ace" status, but the averages remain the same, I posit that average skill has DROPPED, but with newer easy-mode additions to the planeset, this inflates the numbers higher than they'd be if folks were pushed back in time into Tour 24.
Oh, and Wrongway: They may not have had a "bubble" per se, but it's what folks called it. The hit detection was fubar through all of AH1. 1.2k definite kills were the NORM. You weren't safe until you passed 1.5k in front of somebody. Keep in mind historic combat ranges were often 250 or LESS. Some spit aces liked to get in under 150 yards. 300 yards was considered "out of range"... So yeah we had a "hit bubble" in all but name, so folks used the term.
EDIT: That's more food for thought there!! If the numbers are eerily similar, but the skill required to get in and land hits on a plane has grown exponentially with the new bullet/hit detection models, that would imply skill has RISEN!! See how fun this is? So maybe the hit detection and the spit/UFO flight model cancel each other out? Heh heh heh, the options are endless.
-
Right. No one actually improved their skills while playing this game for 5 years, the 500 million people in the developed world who've never played it all got stupider.
Some guy named Occam called, he wants to speak to you. :rolleyes:
Poor comprehension got you down? The word "vets" means long time players who have acquired game skill.
Parity was around because back then everyone had started about the same time so had similar skill sets. Geez... read, comprehend, then respond.
-
....
Tour 111.
I found that
- only ~37% of all players managed to get a K/D better than 0.5
- only ~22% of all players reached 1.0 or better
- only 9% ended up with a K/D of 2.0 or better
- the 50% threshold was at about 0.3
Tour 24
...
I found that
- about 37% of all players had a K/D better 0.5
- about 19% got 1.0 or better
- about 6% reached K/D 2.0 or better
- the 50% threshold was at about 0.27
..
(http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/9825/tour24.jpg)
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8917/tour111.jpg)
Feel free to draw your own or none conclusions at all :)
hi Lusche,
very intresting! when i started the ~<<~Loose Deuce~>>~ Squadron in December 08, i though after being in a squadron over 7 years with totaly mixed skills (from noob to aces all in one sqn) i wanted to start a sqn with equal pilot skills. So i wrote down a rule of member to be recruited should have a KD of 2 or more.
As you graph shows, i ran into the problem, only 9% are above those limits, 95% of these players were already organised in other squadrons. So i lower the entry level down to a KD of 1.0 to find pilots willing to join.
A couple of good Guys joined the LD, over the last 5 Month. In this time they all improve their KD ratio rapidly, sometimes they raised up from 1.5 to 4-5. A "lone wulf" needs a year to gain from 1.5 to 5, being in a squadron have a big influence on each pilots learning curve (if you only wants to learn the ropes and have enough patiance)
It simply shows, when an above average Pilot flys together with a group of also skilled Pilots, and when those Groups flys together, the unique SA can be added to an overal squadron SA. The death rate goes down, so KD wents up.
I think this has also an impact onto the overall stats. Just a thought, to have an overall SA it need years to reach that. So i think its also a development of the players of the game, some were able to cross the 2.0 line, but it needs lot of time to get there constantly.
btw. great work Lusche! (i love stat numbers too :) )
<S>
dhyran
-
Lower k/d can also be caused by fighting more...
higher k/d from running more...
-
Right. No one actually improved their skills while playing this game for 5 years, the 500 million people in the developed world who've never played it all got stupider.
Some guy named Occam called, he wants to speak to you. :rolleyes:
Ever heard of turnover? In 2001, people had been playing flight sims for years. The entire population of the game consisted of people who loved WW2 planes, and <gasp> FIGHTING. The average age of the population was easily in the 40s.
The game today? The average player has probably been playing for less than a year, and could give two ****s about the history of the planes. If I had to guess, I'd say the average age might be in the mid to late 20s, but that might be overly optimistic.
The good players left.
-
Stats are great fun ! Like Del said there just isn't enough info to really draw any conclusion here, but they are fun anyway :D
I think numbers/population really has a big play in this. In the old days 100 players in the arena wouldn't be far off. Using Lusche's numbers 20% would be in the upper end of the K/D, giving them a 1 in 80 shot of finding fresh meat. In todays numbers 400 is more likely, giving the upper end of guys a 1 to 320 shot of finding fresh meat. Maybe this is why it "looks" like the skill level has dropped so bad. Percentage wise there isn't any real difference of new or less skilled players, but the population explosion just increases the chance of running into one of them.
-
Well Lushe, I've finished off a few beers and had a good nights sleep. The wife even ignored me for a bit as I was trying to explain the dynamics of the k/d ratio.:D
I've read what the other's have posted and I agree that we could discuss this subject for a long while. But I think that everyone posting here has a valid point that skills are declining or increasing based upon the change in the "fighting" community.
I think Krusty pretty much described what I was originally trying to discuss. I'm now more curious to see what planes were available in Tour 24. Anyone here remember that far back?
Obie
-
Lower k/d can also be caused by fighting more...
higher k/d from running more...
+1
-
The same crap that burns me out on AH is the same crap that burned me out on Warbirds 10 years ago. Hording, ganging, lack of aircraft variety, etc.
No doubt K/D means very little about skill, but what is true is that if we are close in skill level, a much larger proportion of us should have a K/D near 1, running away included. The vast majority of virtual pilots are as unskilled today as they were years ago. ;)
-
Lower k/d can also be caused by fighting more...
higher k/d from running more...
This is true...I have always looked at my hit percentage as a more accurate read of how I am doing. It does not reflect everything involved, but it does show how well I am doing at getting guns on target.
-
no no no and no. The veteran players who have stuck around now have higher K/d than they used to because there are a lot more easy targets around. Back when there was more parity, the players had a harder time excelling.
This is the ONLY statement that has ANY validity in this thread up to Page 3.
Crash Orange, you've yet to make a valid point in any of your "replies/arguments". Instead of typing, listen to those who have been around here a while (not lurking for two years and creating an account) and know what they are talking about. Steve, Del, Scotch and Krusty make the most sense out of anyone posting in this thread.
The numbers ARE manipulated A LOT more than they were even attempted in Tour 24. I started in Tour 27 and there was rarely gangbanging. You had a true desire to "Reset maps". Rarely you had "NOE's to nowhere with more than 5 participants." Today's "Swarm mentality" has no skill involved, merely "substituting Quality with Quantity" and foisting it off as "Quality".
This game is also filled with a lot more liars, which is the saddest factor of today's game. Player Integrity is non-existent for most, with the exception of about 10% of the Arena. Exaggerations are more abundant than Vultching, all in the name of saving face on 200 or in here. If you look into other thread's right now, you'll find known liars and anything said by them, should be discarded like spent toilet paper.
You could take the Top 50 from Tour 24 and they would smoke the Top 50 of the present. I would even say that the "Tour 24" folks would have more than 1/2 of them being able to land. People like Drex, Leviathn, Ripsnort, Deudel (still the best I've ever seen in a 109), Morpheus, Tarmac, AHGOD, JRCrow, Anton, Vati66, Eastwood, Gremlin, Hblair (still the best I've ever seen in a 38), Mathman (still the best I've ever seen in a Hellcat) and many others are in a league of their own. More than 75% playing the game today never encountered these guys and would be in the tower fast.
-
Tour 64: 0.77 (first full month)
Tour 111: 16.80 (current tour)
Tour 108: 40.50 (best K/D)
-
Interesting, very very interesting. From those numbers, it would appear, that the glorious past was pretty similar to the sucky (according to certain people) today.
I wonder if the folks who were the top of the food chain 7 years ago were fondly remembering glorious days gone by? Is the truth perhaps more along the lines that the folks at the top of the food chain now simply have a "rose colored" view of the exciting days when they were coming up the ranks?
Stats don't reflect the game climate 7 years ago, believe me.
-
Lower k/d can also be caused by fighting more...
higher k/d from running more...
Great point and very true :aok
-
Many of the same folks that played back then continue to play now. Many of those came from other games and had been flying for years prior to AH. The number of people in an arena didn't establish the K/D. The pilots did. Larger arenas with more folks up meant more fights.
Smaller arenas with smaller groups up actually caused the demise of another dogfight game. For those who only want a 1v1 fight maybe you can ask HTC to set up a 1v1 arena (like the old 8 player arena) and you can pay a monthly fee to go do that. Have fun.
What amazes me the most is the number of people who have been flying of 2 years or more that show up in the TA for some training. They then get an eye opener and a new look at how they can fly better.
Unlike Sonny Bono, his wife didn't absorb his knowledge of government by osmosis. If folks think they can then expect a less than 1.0 kill ratio.
Ren
-
Found this topic. Thought I would comment. I haven't been in the game in a couple years. But I can vouch for back in the early days. You had to really fight for your kills. When there were just a few people online. The fights were hard and intense. And you didn't have people scrambling to pick off your kills.
When AH went completely mainstream. The influx was insane. And the targets were around in hordes. It was like picking off fish in a barrel. Sorry to borrow that phrase.
-
Get ready for a flurry of necro-bump pics before the thread is locked. :banana:
-
Found this topic. Thought I would comment. I haven't been in the game in a couple years. But I can vouch for back in the early days. You had to really fight for your kills. When there were just a few people online. The fights were hard and intense. And you didn't have people scrambling to pick off your kills.
When AH went completely mainstream. The influx was insane. And the targets were around in hordes. It was like picking off fish in a barrel. Sorry to borrow that phrase.
Chris!!! QUAH!!!!! :rock HTC can make an exception for this. How have you been Chris?
-
Doing good man. Dusting off my old stick and will hopefully be back to flying soon :) How have you been?
-
Way to bump an old thread!
All the old stats became useless as soon as AH2 came out and AH1 was replaced.
Sure pilots back then could fly a spit or a chog, and they can now.
The difference was that anybody within 1.2k in front of you was "easy kill" range back in AH1. There may not have been a defacto hit bubble, but it sure acted like one. 50cal and hispano rounds regularly (and almost every time) ranged out to 1.2k for instant kills. Try that in AH2 and you'll be RTB sans ammo.
Other arguments may be valid as well (such as more targets for more skilled pilots, whatever) but the kills were easier to get in AH1, and much harder in AH2. IMO that alone changes things.
-
Heh I have been flying these thing forever it seems and my K/D has always sucked because I am not "careful" most of my deaths come from being "picked" while engaging some other target (I think this is true of most of the masses). Judging someone's skill in the game by their stats can be VERY misleading, one bad night can bring a good K/D ratio down into the mudd.
I flew with ALL the guys Mash spoke of and got kills on them (not as many they got on me but hey....). I still lose some planes due to stick cal on take off cause I don't use EZ mode takeoff (there are alot of variables in computer gaming that have nothing to do with real flying skills)
All in All I fall into the massive middle and have no problems with it and never have, like everyone I can get frustrated from time to time and make silly statements I wish I hadn't but then I have never seen anyone who posts here not do the same.
-
Lower k/d can also be caused by fighting more...
higher k/d from running more...
:salute Words of wisdom :aok
-
Thing is that most of the guys doing the complaining are more than willing to help individuals learn. Quite frankly the attitude from the other side toward those willing to help has been doing nothing but inflaming things.
I complain more then most, but this is very true I actually helped a 1Blauv out in the DA and he started beating up on some WoT :rofl :rofl :aok :salute
-
Doing good man. Dusting off my old stick and will hopefully be back to flying soon :) How have you been?
Been doing good, let me know when you get in the Arenas. WMLute corralled me and I joined his squad.
-
I complain more then most, but this is very true I actually helped a 1Blauv out in the DA and he started beating up on some WoT :rofl :rofl :aok :salute
You do realize he's been playing about 7 years longer than you right?
-
You do realize he's been playing about 7 years longer than you right?
I think he was "fooled" and didn't realize it.
-
Everyone seems to miss the simple concept for every kill there has to be a death, and how it effects the distribution.
The only thing that can really shift that curve much is the number of crashes with out awarding kills. I would think the perk system and the name in lights both gave more of an incentive to land, and hence why the k/d's are better in tour 111 then 24. The curves do not really show quality of players but how = the players are and the desire to land.
-
Everyone seems to miss the simple concept for every kill there has to be a death, and how it effects the distribution.
I don't think everyone misses the point. I've argued for it in on multiple occasions, and others have too.
However, the general intuition is that if 100 players all had individual K/D scores of 1 after a year of arena combat, it would indicate much more equal skill levels than if among 100 players 5 had K/D scores above 2, 20 had K/D scores above 1, and the rest had K/D scores <1.
Edit: I've got to think about this some more.
-
An idea for the high k/d'ers : Adding eny to a value per k/d :
Kazaa - you may fly only c47s next tour :x
I fly eny15+ planes 80-90% of the time, but sometimes get bored by not beeing able to stay with my squad by endurance, or performance.
-
In Tour 24 newbies might be able to run, or might be able to turn, but now? Now they can outrun and outturn almost anything they encounter (oh, and let's not forget outclimb, out accelerate, oh yeah and outroll!).
They had the La 7 or the N1K2.
ack-ack
-
An idea for the high k/d'ers : Adding eny to a value per k/d :
Kazaa - you may fly only c47s next tour :x
I fly eny15+ planes 80-90% of the time, but sometimes get bored by not beeing able to stay with my squad by endurance, or performance.
Do the opposite, make killing a high K/Der worth far more perkies. Double with every level of K/D above 1/1 so shooting down a 20/1 cherry picker mulitplies your perkies by 20 for that kill.
-
I think HT is saying...furballing is fun...but landing those kills after furballing is important, much like what the real life WWII pilots faced, and is far more challenging than simply furballing 'til you die.
-
Nah, he's saying it's environmental. Players are given an incentive to land kills, so they land kills.
We're all just dogs in here, and HT is Pavlov.
-
Nah, he's saying it's environmental. Players are given an incentive to land kills, so they land kills.
We're all just dogs in here, and HT is Pavlov.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
-
Every time I took off my intention was to get as many kills and re-arm. Rinse repeat... And then land 30-45 kill sorties :p Back when the D-9 was God and the spit hordes were everywhere...
-
Woo Hoo Graphs. you haven't used one in your post for a little while.
Maybe we need a Wednesday graph
This was the gem in this thread!~ :rofl
-
Do the opposite, make killing a high K/Der worth far more perkies. Double with every level of K/D above 1/1 so shooting down a 20/1 cherry picker mulitplies your perkies by 20 for that kill.
I think killing higher ranked pilots should be worht more perkies, maybe even quite a bit more.
Yes I understand rank does not equal skill, but as a general rule, people ranked high in fighters die less than those ranked lower, regardless of skill level. Thus, the rarer pelt is more valuable.
-
Im pure pwnage, EOS ;)
lol it makes me feel good that 50% of players cant get above 1 to 1, because that means have no right to bich at having under 2 to 1 :)
:airplane: :banana:
-
I have been trying to figure out why my K/D ratio gets worse as I get more skilled in the game. It was quite frustrating really..but then I got to really thinking about how I'm playing and realized that the vast majority of these fighter deaths (those where you die over and over and over) are where I'm upping at a very heavy capped field trying to defend that base. The results vary in that sometimes we hold the base and sometimes we loose it..but one consistent aspect of that play style is that I am dieing a LOT more than I have to.
So, I could go back to how I played initially...and play more safe and get my K/D up to where its not so dreadful. Or I can continue to try to be a good little Knight and fight the hoards taking our bases. I guess it just comes down to how you want to roll.
It is frustrating to die a lot, but its also pretty fun to get insta action when you take off..dodging crap coming at you from every direction-and be a thorn to the BishRook plans of annihilation of the Knight home lands.
So....IMO its hard to take K/D ratio very seriously as it totally depends on how you play and what your goals are. If your goal is to have a good K/D then you take steps to make that happen. If your goal is to grab land and hang onto that land you have..then your K/D will suffer for it.
-
Would be nice to have a hot/high ranked (fighter mode) Icon labeled in some way... ;)
-
Very nice
Tour 64: 0.77 (first full month)
Tour 111: 16.80 (current tour)
Tour 108: 40.50 (best K/D)
-
I think killing higher ranked pilots should be worht more perkies, maybe even quite a bit more.
Yes I understand rank does not equal skill, but as a general rule, people ranked high in fighters die less than those ranked lower, regardless of skill level. Thus, the rarer pelt is more valuable.
An interesting idea and certainly valid on the surface; however, consider the unintended consequences. Most of us have already experienced someone who gets po'd at getting shot down and comes back with a go-fast just to find the guy that killed him. Now, imagine 30-40 (100?) guys in an arena hearing Baron Von X is at A23 in a P38 and see how many people converge there for the "pelt" and points. Is it sporting for the Baron to have a price on his head? Think it wouldn't happen? How many people will do whatever it takes to kill a 262? :D
-
Moot point as most of the "highest ranked" fly around with a posse anyways to set up easy kills, so they can make the front page every month. :rofl
Might actually keep their name outta the lights if they have to fight to keep it. Who knows?
-
Would be nice to have a hot/high ranked (fighter mode) Icon labeled in some way... ;)
I initially dismissed this idea as yet another way for Lazerr to proclaim is 'awsomeness' as he does every chance he gets on these BBs :P, but in thinking about it more, this is a REALLY bad idea. This might make it harder for good pilots to get in fight because many of lesser score would avoid them, and the noobs would be even more mercilessly picked on, driving them out of the game even faster than they already are.
I suggest a better solution might be to have Level-up arenas. Noobs all start in the Noob arena. Once you demonstated you're in the upper percentile of Noobs you are allowed to enter the MODERATE arena, after that the EXPERT arena. Of course once you level up, no going back to the less skilled arena unless your score tanks in the next up Arena. This way the experts don't have to waste their time, and run their scores up, chasing after running noobs, and Noobs don't have to get discoraged that they are not having any success which leads to them quitting the game before they have developed the skill-set to be competitive. Then Titanic Tuesday could be the one night when everyone flies together. I think the K/D distribution the Lusche posted is so left shifted because of the talent disparity in the MA.
I also think this would help retain a lot of new pilots and help grow the business.
-
Yes Im good, your horrible. Get over it. This is an online game im gloating about, NOT ANY TALENT OF ANY SUBSTANCE, IN REAL LIFE. You should work on keeping your plane airborn before you worry anything about icons. ;)
-
Not a bad idea
I initially dismissed this idea as yet another way for Lazerr to proclaim is 'awsomeness' as he does every chance he gets on these BBs :P, but in thinking about it more, this is a REALLY bad idea. This might make it harder for good pilots to get in fight because many of lesser score would avoid them, and the noobs would be even more mercilessly picked on, driving them out of the game even faster than they already are.
I suggest a better solution might be to have Level-up arenas. Noobs all start in the Noob arena. Once you demonstated you're in the upper percentile of Noobs you are allowed to enter the MODERATE arena, after that the EXPERT arena. Of course once you level up, no going back to the less skilled arena unless your score tanks in the next up Arena. This way the experts don't have to waste their time, and run their scores up, chasing after running noobs, and Noobs don't have to get discoraged that they are not having any success which leads to them quitting the game before they have developed the skill-set to be competitive. Then Titanic Tuesday could be the one night when everyone flies together. I think the K/D distribution the Lusche posted is so left shifted because of the talent disparity in the MA.
I also think this would help retain a lot of new pilots and help grow the business.
-
Now, imagine 30-40 (100?) guys in an arena hearing Baron Von X is at A23 in a P38 and see how many people converge there for the "pelt" and points. Is it sporting for the Baron to have a price on his head? Think it wouldn't happen? How many people will do whatever it takes to kill a 262? :D
That's been done ... it was fun.
-
done in AW wasnt it? some sort of bounty system...lets do it.
-
will a bounty make the target more timid?
-
I have selfish reasons for it....I say place it on the top 20-25 fighter scores (im up there) so that they draw a crowd (fight comes to me) and are forced to fight off the perk hungry. So in the end...I have to do less work to find red planes to shoot down.
-
will a bounty make the target more timid?
Dunno... but we did it in AW and it was fun. Just put a perk bonus for a kill on these guys. If they suffer no additional penalty for dying, not sure how they would be more timid.
-
Would be nice to have a hot/high ranked (fighter mode) Icon labeled in some way... ;)
KOTH
-
done in AW wasnt it? some sort of bounty system...lets do it.
It was a private set up thing, not offiicially done and in the end it ended up being a joke. At first it was pretty cool but it generated into people putting bounties up just to grief others and it also became a popularity contest. It got to the point that those that had the bounty on them were the ones that weren't known for their skill but rather how popular they were in chat.
ack-ack
-
will a bounty make the target more timid?
They tended to be the timid players already.
ack-ack
-
Seems I recall guy putting bounties on themselves back then
-
it generated into people putting bounties up just to grief others and it also became a popularity contest. It got to the point that those that had the bounty on them were the ones that weren't known for their skill but rather how popular they were in chat.
ack-ack
Hmm I don't remember that. I had the second highest bounty on me(at least the way I remember it) and don't remember being particularly popular in chat. I'm not advocating for the same thing here, anyway. I'm just suggesting that people who are ranked higher, in the applicable category, should yield more perk/score point to those who shoot them down... with no additional penalty to the person shot down. I don't see a down side.
-
Hmm I don't remember that. I had the second highest bounty on me(at least the way I remember it) and don't remember being particularly popular in chat. I'm not advocating for the same thing here, anyway. I'm just suggesting that people who are ranked higher, in the applicable category, should yield more perk/score point to those who shoot them down... with no additional penalty to the person shot down. I don't see a down side.
i dont see a problem unless it is crazy bonus.. If you start giving out some crap like 5x the perks for killing someone in the top 20, it will probably get ridiculous. "oh i just got killed by xxxxxxxx at a123, come kill him! get perks!!@! !!@!@!@!!!"
but a slight modifier like the perk bonus that already exists, might be alright.. If I were any good at math, I would present a formula :)
-
You do realize he's been playing about 7 years longer than you right?
You realize some people dont actually learn ACM from just MA play.......btw Im still waiting for you to tell Shawk I wanna 1v1. Kinda want to 1v1 Karaya too hes been playing longer but I might come out on top. Time playing doesnt actually make you better unless you practice good technique all the time
-
JunkyII, I agree with you. Time does not make a player better. Just because someone has been playing for 8-10 years, doesn't make him/her a great pilot. He/She may just be someone who's bee playing the game for that long and still sucks.
LOL, Use me for an example. Ive been playing for over a year and still get my bellybutton handed to me out there in fighters. It's fun though, so I'll keep trying.
Bombers, well that's another story. :aok
Coogan
-
I am one of a small minority of long time players (10 years now omg) who does not get my kicks from an above average K/d ratio from typically timid BnZ flying.
However I do not prefer the purist dogfighter play style of 200mph outnumbered on the deck, kill 3-4 and get shot down and die rinse repeat as a challenge either.
There is another thrill that I think many indulge in at the beginning of each tour... it is a practice that was once recorded long ago in warbirds known as streaking... which would be recorded as the number of kills before dying... the way actual aces in ww2 were forced to keep track of their success because... well after they died they didn't come back.
Some get pretty high streaks going at the beginning of a new tour. I've topped 170 on occasion before dying but never broken 200. Ive even survived a few tours without dying at all... but the challenge of the streak... that unreachable magic number of kills remains.
After all the challenge is the thing. and the holy grail number of kills is naturally 352.
no one has broken 200 to my knowledge. And if they have only they would know anyway once they get shot down and start again any evidence of the feat is gone.
now mind you this is not mainstream nor should it be. to survive an entire tour landing or ditching every sortie without dying bailing or being captured is the parameters of the challenge. And due to the nature of Aces high accounting system you only can do this once per tour. no streak accounting system is in place.
It is an ad hoc Hardcore streak playstyle that misuses K/d Ratio to track a streak. And that streak is active for the tour only while K/D+1 = K/0+1.
once you hit K/1+1 or even k/0.5+1 the streak ends. until next month. in a way it is almost preferable to a streak counter that begins anew after each death in that you have only one chance per tour to do this. And say what you will this thing is a challenge that takes total situational awareness and an infinite amount of luck.. even a disco will put you out of the streak (always considered an aircraft mechanical malfunction that resulted in death by yours truly). You will be put in situations during the attempt that have very slim chance of survival and the maneuvers you must execute to stay alive are very intense during the streak. because you have something to lose. and you cant get it back till next tour.
so to those that say all the old timers have left...
I disagree.
A few of us are still around... but we might have died.
so we will be back next tour.
-
That sounds like fun Fester. I might just do that this week, see how many I can get. Although I guess it would kinda limit what I do, since I probably won't be taking any risks, at all.
Still sounds fun.
-
I would not recommend it for newer players. Its something that is not possible for the masses to even attempt. And if they did it would only frustrate them. its something that keeps 1 or 2 old timers who have "been there done that" and seek another element to add to the challenge. something so difficult and impossible and downright nerve wracking after the numbers start to build up into the hundreds that you can almost go back in time and get a glimpse of it all and the life or death struggle it actually was. not just of the tactics and the performance of the machines against each other.
i would dare say it is a play style more akin to role playing than anything else.
the difference is...
"I have a spit on the tail of my 109. I'm out of altitude and airspeed and options and i have to do something sensational to survive, but if I don't I will just up a new plane 2 seconds later"
versus...
"I have a spit on the tail of my 109. I'm out of altitude and airspeed and options and i have to do something sensational to survive, but if I don't I will be dead... till next tour."
normally you have nothing to lose...
but this play style is all about having something to lose that you can't get back... until next month.
-
What did you start off with? Somthing that you enjoy to fly the most? I know I can do it, tring to find somthing new all the time :)
-
I think I've tried it every tour since beta in many aircraft. the highest streaks I got were in p38s, p51s, 109s, 190s. Ive found matching the Highest kill tally of the pilot flying the actual aircraft in ww2 make the attempt more in the spirit of things. hence why i fly 109s and 190s when trying to survive a tour and get hundreds of kills. to match a top US ace you would only have to hit 40 in a p38 or 32 in a f6f if i remember right.
fishu's 347 kills/0 deaths in beta tour 1 and warbirds streak system were the inspiration for it i suppose. even though Fishu's actual k/d was around 16/1 from bails and captures no enemy had recorded kills on him. so legit or not.. it and hartman's 352 kills are the numbers to beat.
One variation of it is a single sortie streak. where you rearm to see how many kills you could get in a single sortie.
first time I tried it successfully was in a P-38L back when each kill was announced when the kill happened and a number was next to the kill.
I was attempting to get 40 kills in one sortie... by the 40th kill a lot of enemy players were hunting me and some friendly fighters were lingering around me for easy fixated kills on my attackers. I managed to land it though.
I have always considered myself a survivalist regardless of how hardcore my streak attempt is on any particular tour for two reasons... I hate getting shot down. and I find 5 kills landed is more satisfying than 6 kills but shot down.
"one more" will get you killed every time.
-
I have always considered myself a survivalist regardless of how hardcore my streak attempt is on any particular tour for two reasons... I hate getting shot down. and I find 5 kills landed is more satisfying than 6 kills but shot down.
"one more" will get you killed every time.
Well put. One of the lessons I've learned is not to keep pressing. That is. When to turn away and either go home and land. or search for another target.
Too often I'd see a target and decide THAT was the one thats gonna die. Eventually get the kill but in the meantime gave up any and every advantage I might have had and put myself in a position I couldnt get out of.
Thats what happens when you get greedy or become too target fixated. I've learned if the shot is there. Take it. If it isnt. then dont press it but instead move on or exit the area.
Sometimes your better off passing on some kills in favor of a different target
-
Streaks are challenging, nerve wracking, stressful, and exhilerating all at once. I don't think I'll ever approach Fester's 170. That's simply an amazing feat, both skill and luck wise. Skill aside, my luck would never hold that long. I set a personal requirement that I must stay close to 10 kills per hour so I'm not tempted to go completely timid when I'm on a streak. I've never gotten past 120...I finished a tour with no deaths, discos, captures or bails, but it was a short month since I went on vacation. I only managed 100/1 but it was cool to try to stay alive.
Ya Fes.. a streak counter... cool idea.
-
Would a streak in a 262 count?
-
Streaks are challenging, nerve wracking, stressful, and exhilerating all at once. I don't think I'll ever approach Fester's 170. That's simply an amazing feat, both skill and luck wise. Skill aside, my luck would never hold that long. I set a personal requirement that I must stay close to 10 kills per hour so I'm not tempted to go completely timid when I'm on a streak. I've never gotten past 120...I finished a tour with no deaths, discos, captures or bails, but it was a short month since I went on vacation. I only managed 100/1 but it was cool to try to stay alive.
Ya Fes.. a streak counter... cool idea.
yes, Steve
put it on the wishlist! Its a great feeling flying a streak. It Psycho war! I love it :rock
-
that is my goal from that other thread for this tour...352-0 in a G6.
Hiya Fester. :D
-
Sort of tried it this tour, had never attempted it really before... went 17 for 17 all in a G6, 58 kills no deaths... if I can get my damn stick from spiking so bad I might make an effort to see how many I can get this tour. Definitely a much different challenge, gave me a renewed interest in the game.
-
Streaks should be separated with plane types flied within the streaks.
-
as to what counts and what doesn't, its all the preference of the player attempting it.
the 262 in my opinion Kazaa is a death trap due to its horrendous ability to stand out in a crowd.
A big asset in surviving a large fight is killing rapidly while being inconspicuous. Neither to high that you are an obvious threat easily avoided or to low that you are a prime target. The 262 is ill suited to attempt to streak due to its inability to blend in and the tendancy of its pilot to end up in adverse situations so quickly that they end up on fire with pieces missing from a random aircraft that ignored every other airplane in the fight to dive from 20k to 5k just to shoot down the 262. when all enemies are watching you you are not on the offensive. You are flying defensively trying to survive and close to being dead.
Steve I think you are the current record holder by the standards I streak by. There have been higher streaks that ended in a death before the tour ended by myself and maybe others but I think you are the only one to survive a tour with that many kills and had a k/d ratio intact to prove it. :D
Heya killnu :)
Stang you beat me this tour with 58 (wow in a 109g6?)... I didn't have much time to fly and ended up with only 49 kills in a 109k4 but survived the whole tour at least.
-
After all the challenge is the thing. and the holy grail number of kills is naturally 352.
Cit I understand how you choose the number, but how many times was he shot down? You would be counting all bails as shoot downs.
HiTech
-
Cit I understand how you choose the number, but how many times was he shot down? You would be counting all bails as shoot downs.
HiTech
Ja,
I think Otto Kittlel would be the benchmark. (4th all time)
Otto Kittel flew 583 combat missions and recorded 267 victories. Prior to his death, he had not been bested in aerial combat but had been shot down once by flak.
EDIT: He got the ditch too, :) so it was a true 267 victory streak. Another amazing thing about Kittel is that he did not begin his streak until June of 1941! I beleive all his victories came in the Fw190A series fighters.
-
as to what counts and what doesn't, its all the preference of the player attempting it.
the 262 in my opinion Kazaa is a death trap due to its horrendous ability to stand out in a crowd.
A big asset in surviving a large fight is killing rapidly while being inconspicuous. Neither to high that you are an obvious threat easily avoided or to low that you are a prime target. The 262 is ill suited to attempt to streak due to its inability to blend in and the tendancy of its pilot to end up in adverse situations so quickly that they end up on fire with pieces missing from a random aircraft that ignored every other airplane in the fight to dive from 20k to 5k just to shoot down the 262. when all enemies are watching you you are not on the offensive. You are flying defensively trying to survive and close to being dead.
Steve I think you are the current record holder by the standards I streak by. There have been higher streaks that ended in a death before the tour ended by myself and maybe others but I think you are the only one to survive a tour with that many kills and had a k/d ratio intact to prove it. :D
Heya killnu :)
Stang you beat me this tour with 58 (wow in a 109g6?)... I didn't have much time to fly and ended up with only 49 kills in a 109k4 but survived the whole tour at least.
Wise words, very true indeed.
I started flying only 262's one tour, I had 80 for 0 before I tried flying my 262 under a bridge, I found out the funny/hard way that it’s not a good idea.
-
Cit I understand how you choose the number, but how many times was he shot down? You would be counting all bails as shoot downs.
HiTech
If my memory serves me right, he never bailed. He did several forced landings, but only one of them resulted in a "System: You have been captured", all others were "You have ditched" ;)
So his total K/D is 176, but I would have to look up the number of kills before he was captured to determine his "streak".
-
Hartmann ditched 14 times. He always claimed to have never been forced to ditch due to enemy a/c fire.
Edit:...Oooops, And yes Snail...your memory is correct. He never took to the silk.
-
Hitech the reason for this is because i am misusing the in game k/d ratio as a bastardized method of tracking and proving a successful streak.
However all proof is lost even after 1 death, bail or disco due to the fact that the death/bail/disco could have occurred anywhere during the current number of recorded kills. So it is more of a personal challenge every tour for the past 10 years.
I think I have only survived a handful of tours entirely without a Death/bail/disco and they were low scoring tours with around 50-70 kills only.
I have only gotten into the hundreds of kills 2 times. First 152 kills in p51d many years ago and more recently 195 kills in a 109k4 (thought it was 170 but it was 195 lol) both of these ended in deaths however and the solitary proof that was intended to come from the K/d ratio was lost... so attempting this gives no medal for second place. Survive the whole tour with the kills you have or it never happened.
Even if you had 195 kills before dying it only matters to you and a few squaddies who were there.
Bails are counted as a death in the k/d ratio. for the same reason I count disco's as a death from mechanical failure.
The perfect tour scenario for myself would be a K/d of 352 kills and 0 deaths. To acquire that all sorties must end in a landing or ditch.
............................. ...
If your interested in the spirit of this (something extremely difficult that can only be done once per tour which gives the player something significant to lose) I have thought a long time about a recording method.
The emphasis on a one shot deal per tour vs an endless streak counter that resets every death and keeps counting over and over has two important reasons.
1. It gives that 1 virtual life a large psychological roll playing element that can be kept alive or lost for the entire tour.
2. It would be best to at all costs avoid rewarding a live at all costs and avoid fighting mentality for the general population in the MA
thus such a counter should have no impact on scores or ranks. should have no advertisement and actually be difficult for newer players to find and fuss over.
that method would be pretty simple in concept...
"Kills before Death"
it would only track the number of kills at the start of a tour before the pilot was killed or captured or had a disco (I like the mechanical failure death random chance element of including discos as a streak ender hehe) It would allow what you accurately noticed in hartmanns 352 kills to happen... to bail out... (multiple times in fact) and even escape capture (might be a long walk but a die hard streaker would attempt it)
after a player dies, is captured or discos(mechanical failure resulting in death or capture) the Kills before death counter stops counting and is preserved for the players enjoyment and ability to look back and remember fondly their hair raising adventure of surviving to get so many kills and then dying.
I feel the Kill's before Death counter should only count victories against aircraft while in a fighter/attack sortie but stop after a death/bail/disco of any type regardless of if it was in a bomber fighter or attack or vehicle. This reinforces the role playing element and facilitates the ease of losing this one virtual first life of the tour. Everything else your a zombie for. I would say only airborne aircraft count but not sure if that's possible. (the gv guys may cry but the intent of this is to replicate Air combat scoring and adding gv kills and kills from ship/field guns would corrupt it. I am only advocating an air to air streak system at the moment.)
After the streak ends its time to unwind from the stress and psychological torture of trying to survive this horrible virtual war.
"It is time to join your fellow dead men flying zombies and tank whats left of that good old K/d ratio into the ground with a good old low level flying in ack with bombs in rockets dying and furballing spree for the rest of the tour carefree...
Because its enjoyable to be as dead as it is to be alive in this game. and you cant wait till next tour to try it again because this time your gonna really push the envelope. Your gonna keep maximum situational awareness, razor sharp gunnery and hair splitting maneuvers from all the down and dirty carefree practice and fun your gonna have the rest of this tour. But next tour... its on. Gonna chase that carrot thats just out of reach... get that one more kill... gonna survive it this time. You will see."
-
I use to try running those in the D9 and 262. I would have to dig back a few years ago to see what they were.
-
Edit:...Oooops, And yes Snail...your memory is correct. He never took to the silk.
This is a common myth, however he was shot down and forced to bail over by P51's 1944 (over Romania IIRC).
There's a fairly detailed account of this in 'the Blond Knight of Germany'.
-
This is a common myth, however he was shot down and forced to bail over by P51's 1944 (over Romania IIRC).
There's a fairly detailed account of this in 'the Blond Knight of Germany'.
Been along time since I read that last. Will have to look tonight. If so, then Kittlel would be the AcesHigh Streak criteria king.
EDit: Found it...Bailed due to lack of fuel while being chased. Landed 4 miles from base.