Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: seano on April 10, 2010, 11:52:07 PM
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ok, so ive read that the capping is a result of aces high not growing. i was ready to cancel due to lack of interest on my part in the main arena and lack of new maps. ww1 saved me. but anyways,
so here goes my idea: instead of capping the number of people in an arena, how about capping the number of planes a base can support in the air? lets say a small base can support 20 aircraft, 30 for a medium base, 40 for a large base. this way you will force a country to spread the fights. we all know its really annoying to not be able to get in the "big arena". what was evident was that more players liked having the caps removed by looking at the numbers.
by capping the number of planes a base can support, missions will need to be planned different. town killers up from 1 base, fighters from another. this kind of change will allow squad nights to not be interupted, will allow everyone to be in the arena with the big numbers, will limit the hordes in 1 small area. the maps are large enough to support this, the are too big to have a cap of 200. hopefully skuzzy will read this idea as i have not read this anywhere else.
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Wish list better place for it, Hitech responds in there sometimes.
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ok, so ive read that the capping is a result of aces high not growing. i was ready to cancel due to lack of interest on my part in the main arena and lack of new maps. ww1 saved me. but anyways,
so here goes my idea: instead of capping the number of people in an arena, how about capping the number of planes a base can support in the air? lets say a small base can support 20 aircraft, 30 for a medium base, 40 for a large base. this way you will force a country to spread the fights. we all know its really annoying to not be able to get in the "big arena". what was evident was that more players liked having the caps removed by looking at the numbers.
by capping the number of planes a base can support, missions will need to be planned different. town killers up from 1 base, fighters from another. this kind of change will allow squad nights to not be interupted, will allow everyone to be in the arena with the big numbers, will limit the hordes in 1 small area. the maps are large enough to support this, the are too big to have a cap of 200. hopefully skuzzy will read this idea as i have not read this anywhere else.
Hordes are ALWAYS in one small area, thats why we call em hordes. Your idea is nice and all. It almost follows the area ENY idea ppl had. Can you imagine the whines of "WHY IS THAT NEWB FLYING IN MY ZONE/BASE".
I dont and never will understand the idea of having arena caps. Im not trying to beat a dead horse here, but the way it was set up, gave players a consistent choice where they wanted to play. Who really cares that the #s were LWO- 420/500 and LWB was 23/250. That alone proves that everyone loves to play in one big arena. Having LWB made the "milkers" happy so they can be uncontested when they wanted to play their game, but also gave some a choice that if some came to LWB and wanted some easy kills on milkers, they can switch and shoot em down.
For some reason, when arena caps are in place, one arena is mobbed by one country with another country lacking. Now you have the country with no #s being swarmed by the other 2 and the remaining fronts empty. Now the only choice is either your in the horde, or fighting the horde OR switch fronts or countries and try to pick fights by loitering at empty feilds only to come up empty handed.
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I never thought the day would come, today I cancelled my account for good after 5 years of subscription. This game just wasn't the same since the caps were set in place all those years ago.
If I were HiTech, I would have left arenas free of caps and let my paying customers choose which arena they would like to use. If you like large action, go into Orange as most people would gravitate towards it, being first on the list. If you like small action, go into Blue, everyone's happy.
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I dont and never will understand the idea of having arena caps. Im not trying to beat a dead horse here, but the way it was set up, gave players a consistent choice where they wanted to play. Who really cares that the #s were LWO- 420/500 and LWB was 23/250. That alone proves that everyone loves to play in one big arena. Having LWB made the "milkers" happy so they can be uncontested when they wanted to play their game, but also gave some a choice that if some came to LWB and wanted some easy kills on milkers, they can switch and shoot em down.
+1
If I were HiTech, I would have left arenas free of caps and let my paying customers choose which arena they would like to use. If you like large action, go into Orange as most people would gravitate towards it, being first on the list. If you like small action, go into Blue, everyone's happy.
+1
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Skuzzy already said that HTC turned caps on due to business in another thread about a week ago
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not quite, the LW arena was originally split due to losing business, understandable as new players could easily be discouraged by flying in a single arena with 800 others. gameplay was effected because there were just too many players for one map. caps were then introduced to balance the numbers between the 2 LWAs. this is the bit I have a problem with, I just dont see how balancing the numbers between arenas adds anything. there are plenty of downsides to it, for no gain that I can see. no one has suggested that the caps were turned back on recently because HT was losing business. however, I'd guess that turning the caps back on will have an impact on business as it will annoy large numbers of players.
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not quite, the LW arena was originally split due to losing business, understandable as new players could easily be discouraged by flying in a single arena with 800 others. gameplay was effected because there were just too many players for one map. caps were then introduced to balance the numbers between the 2 LWAs. this is the bit I have a problem with, I just dont see how balancing the numbers between arenas adds anything. there are plenty of downsides to it, for no gain that I can see. no one has suggested that the caps were turned back on recently because HT was losing business. however, I'd guess that turning the caps back on will have an impact on business as it will annoy large numbers of players.
i shoulda added recently...
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havent seen anything to suggest caps were turned back on recently because of losing business ...
edit: just from my observations I'd guess overall numbers playing in LW have fallen since the caps were reintroduced. hopefully HTC are tracking the numbers and will consequently switch the caps off again when they see how it effects numbers and gameplay. quite apart from the fact that 95% of players dont want them.
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The underlying cause of the arena split is to remove the caustic environment the large single arena created. Too many players in one arena creates an unhealthy environment.
The arena caps were enabled again, as the arena numbers were approaching the healthy environment limits. No matter what you think, we have numbers proving a large arena will not allow HTC to continue to grow.
We have remained open for suggestions to solve the problem. A large fixed arena size is not an option.
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I dont think anyone is suggesting one large LWA like titanic tuesdays, just 2 LW arenas with fixed caps set at whatever level the terrain can support.
apart from the last few weeks, has this ever been tried before?
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Multiple small cap arenas? How is that going to be any different than a dynamic cap? If the arena you want in is capped, why would you be happy than if it was static instead of dynamic?
By the way, I have no input as to what system is used. I am just asking questions and trying to answer using quotes from HiTech and Pyro.
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Multiple small cap arenas? How is that going to be any different than a dynamic cap? If the arena you want in is capped, why would you be happy than if it was static instead of dynamic?
By the way, I have no input as to what system is used. I am just asking questions and trying to answer using quotes from HiTech and Pyro.
is it time to go for another LW arena yet? same dynamics? the only reason one is more populated than another is the favorable map... maybe a better map rotation then?
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not small caps, cap fixed at whatever is the max for that map. the really big maps maybe 600-800?, small maps like pizza 400-500? overcrowding is partially a function of the terrain design, number of bases overall, number of bases on each front etc.
I think quite a few players have suggested a big map rotation in LWA (since historically this is where players look for numbers) and a small map rotation in LWB, seems like quite a good idea :aok
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We have remained open for suggestions to solve the problem. A large fixed arena size is not an option.
I don't think that you could ever get away from the dynamic arena balancing notion for all the reasons that Dale and Doug gave ... it's all dollars and cents and most of us understand that ... some don't really give a crap whether you guys make (more) money ... it's all about them and their needs.
I have suggested a couple of times to add another dimension to the arena balancing ...
If an arena is capped - Arena "O" ... still allow entry into arena "O" but only to the two lowest populated countries until their numbers match the highest populated country. If they enter the arena through this avenue, they cannot change countries for 1 hour (basically resetting their country changing switch time).
OR
(this is basically what happens today) if the other arena "B" hits its threshold number that causes arena "O's" cap to automatically increase.
This notion would/could appease those who want into a capped arena and are willing to fly for countries that are less populated.
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not small caps, cap fixed at whatever is the max for that map. the really big maps maybe 600-800?, small maps like pizza 400-500? overcrowding is partially a function of the terrain design, number of bases overall, number of bases on each front etc.
I think quite a few players have suggested a big map rotation in LWA (since historically this is where players look for numbers) and a small map rotation in LWB, seems like quite a good idea :aok
If I remember right your Euro time right? One arena is fine for that time because the numbers aren't so big. When the US starts coming in the first arena hits its cap of 400-500 and then the next 200 people complain about not being able to get into the "capped" arena AND complain about the lack of fights due to low numbers in the arena that is available. Starting the dynamic caps at the time they do brings up the totals in the two fairly evenly. Is it perfect, nope. There will always be someone complaining.
With the numbers available to HTC they KNOW that a single arena will hurt their business. Why people insist on trying to convince them to go that route anyway is just stupid. It's like trying to tell a cop not to give you a speeding ticket because you were in a hurry to get home to watch your favorite TV show.... it just ain't going to work.
People on there own are just to dumb to handle a cap on their own so it must be forced on them... herd mentality. The only way to do away with the caps is to change human nature... good luck with that.
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All you guys that are asking for fixed caps on arenas, for whatever reason, will be the first people back onto this forum the instant you can't get into the arena that you want screaming that it sucks.
So say Orange has a small map and it's capped at 400 at 7 pm EST and all your "buddies" or squad are in Orange ... it will most likely stay capped for the remainder of the night ... and you try to log in at 7:10 pm EST ... now what ?
Lots of this ... :cry
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not small caps, cap fixed at whatever is the max for that map. the really big maps maybe 600-800?, small maps like pizza 400-500? overcrowding is partially a function of the terrain design, number of bases overall, number of bases on each front etc.
I think quite a few players have suggested a big map rotation in LWA (since historically this is where players look for numbers) and a small map rotation in LWB, seems like quite a good idea :aok
That does not solve the unhealthy arena environment. If you think it does, please elaborate.
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I wish I had any solution.
But most unfortunately I have not.
I was able to (grudingly) accept the arena caps for a long time, because I was often able to fly very late at night, during US prime times which is something like 2-5 am here.
However I currently can not play at those unhealthy times anymore, being largely stuck on my "primetime", early-late evening.
And while two 400 player arenas may be better for both gameplay and HTC business than a 800 player single one, having two arenas at 150(closed)+80(open) players instead of one 230 player arena sucks for me.
It was a really bad moment for my (and purely subjective) gameplay experience, when the caps were enabled again recently. And being a solo flyier, I do even have the advantage on not having any squaddies in the closed arena that I absolutely have to join.
I would hate to quit, but at the moment I have trouble to find any fun in logging in at 7-9pm and seeing ~300 players online, but the only arena available to me has like 20-80 players.
Yes, I may be a spoiled brat ("back in 19XX we never had more than 80 players at all"). But it is defenitely not that kind of multi-player experience I had when joining AH.
But letting caps kick in at a later time would create much bigger imbalance between the two LW arenas, and the "enable caps at 400 then kick everybody for enforcing a quick balance between the arenas" would absolutely produce a storm on this BBS.
In other words: I'm just out of luck. :frown:
The only minor "fix" for me right now is to log in before 7PM to at least secure me a spot in the "bigger" arena. But even that ain't really fun when you see all battles literally "drying out" for ever sinking player numbers in LWO. And it's not very fair but selfish too.
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One arena is fine for that time because the numbers aren't so big. etc.
why do people keep talking about one arena? sure theres a few players that want just one TT syle LWA, but im sure most want 2 arenas like we have now, just without all the problems caused by caps. pls reread my post :)
That does not solve the unhealthy arena environment. If you think it does, please elaborate.
as far as I can work out the unhealthy environment is/was caused by too many players on one map. for a given map there will be a critical mass for a decent fight at the low number end, and at the other end a number where overcrowding causes gameplay issues. an appropriate hard upper cap for each map eliminates the unhealthy environment.
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I said one arena because that is what it turns into. You have 2 arenas, as arena "A" fills to cap of 400, you basically have only one arena as most people will populate that arena, then arena "B" begins to fill. At this time you still only have one arena because the other is capped and closed, most likely for the night with only small changes as people log out and new go in..
So having 2 or 3 arenas with a 400 cap will still make only one arena because people always work to get into "the arena" which ever it is. With the dynamic caps it starts to force people into the other arenas at lower numbers making the game playable in two arenas, not one.
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why do people keep talking about one arena? sure theres a few players that want just one TT syle LWA, but im sure most want 2 arenas like we have now, just without all the problems caused by caps. pls reread my post :)
as far as I can work out the unhealthy environment is/was caused by too many players on one map. for a given map there will be a critical mass for a decent fight at the low number end, and at the other end a number where overcrowding causes gameplay issues. an appropriate hard upper cap for each map eliminates the unhealthy environment.
As Lusche pointed out, there is a minimum level at what time an arena is not fun to play in either. No matter what hard upper limit you pick, there will be a time period where the minimum level is not met. Dynamic caps does not eliminate that, but it does help to minimize the length of time the arena is below the lower level.
Set the upper limit to 450 for a static cap and as soon as it is reached, the complaints will start rolling in as now players are forced into an arena with 10 or 15 players for a longer period of time. Raising the cap exacerbates the problem. Lowering the cap would reduce the problem but create another one.
There will always be a cap. There has to be. The goal is to find a way to populate more than one arena at a time while keeping both (or more) fun to play in.
Please keep in mind, I cannot effect change. I am not privvy to those discussions. I am just soliciting for ideas we might not have thought of or tried.
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Skuzzy by unhealthy do you mean lag issues or hording? If its hording then how about one large arena with a setting that sets a limit for planes that can up from fields in an hour or half hour.
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There just aren't enough players to support a healthy environment outside of US prime time. I was sick to death playing in Orange, with a huge map and only 100-150 players populating it.
Also, Skuzzy, would you be able to post AH2's subscription growth since day one to community? I would love to take a look at the numbers just out of interest.
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I would hate to quit, but at the moment I have trouble to find any fun in logging in at 7-9pm and seeing ~300 players online, but the only arena available to me has like 20-80 players.
currently, isn't the cap not in effect until a certain time?.. I figure, if the caps were in place 24 hrs a day, you wouldnt end up with a seriously over-cap arena when the caps magically kick in..
so instead of 200 in orange and 20 in blue, 110 in each..
then it would make orange less attractive, and people truly hopefully finally treat both arenas equally, instead of always piling into orange because they can, when the cap's not in effect..
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currently, isn't the cap not in effect until a certain time?.. I figure, if the caps were in place 24 hrs a day, you wouldnt end up with a seriously over-cap arena when the caps magically kick in..
so instead of 200 in orange and 20 in blue, 110 in each..
Which basically would not change anything for us euro players.
From my viewpoint, the numbers are about this: 10am-2pm something like 80-100 players total, most of them in LWO.
From 2PM the numbers are slowly rising up to about 200 players in the early evening. Then, caps kick in at 7pm.
The battles in LWO are slowly dying for lack of new players entering the arena, and many of the remaining just sitting in tower to reserve their spot.
Making the caps kick in earlier wouldn't change anything in player distribution, unless you set caps minimum as low as 40 players.
Right now, the caps are kicking in at a time of fastest growth, wich makes sense.
It's just that I live in the wrong timezone for that. Would I be an American player, I would have little to none trouble with them (As I mentioned above, I played at typical US times for a long time). But being in the Euro timezone, it makes all the difference.
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eesh quite difficult to discuss the effects of having no dynamic caps at all and just using hard caps when everyone still has the dynamic cap mindset.
imagine the biggest map we have in LWO. the hard cap would be whatever the map can support without overcrouding becoming an issue. recently ive seen 600-700 in LWO with no major problems, so say 750 hard cap. now have a small map in LWB, one that can handle say 450.
from what ive seen the last few weeks, most people (90%?) like to fly in a busy arena (LWO). regardless of what those 90% think is "a decent fight" or what most would consider the critical mass for fun in an arena there are another 10% of players who are still happier to fly in LWB for whatever reason. they choose to fly in an arena with numbers so low that 90% wouldnt bother. it seems to me that these 10% are the ones that would have been put off by the original single 850 cap LWA.
of course there will still be a point where players are forced into LWB, when LWO is full at 750 players. there will be at least another 80ish players in LWB (our 10%) so the cap only effects peoples choice when there are 830+ players online. ie primetime.
thing is, this is predictable, we know when LWO is likely to be full or almost full, which is alot easier to deal with than the dynamic caps. a common cap whine is "but I want to fly with my squaddies in LWO!" the usual answer is "well get them to come to LWB!" nice idea but the dynamic caps make it impossible to work that way. you get them to come to LWB, then another squaddie logs in and because the caps have changed he cant get into LWB...
the difference between hard caps and dynamic caps is that the hard cap only effects players' choice at predictable times of the week/day where its downsides are reduced and can even be planned for, whereas the dynamic cap effects players choices almost constantly.
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Skuzzy, the best, and possibly most whine-preventing fix I see is to not only make more maps, but to switch them as more and more or less and less people are in an arena. If there is an arena with very few people in it, switch the map to ndisles or a new map that can be made. If there are lots of people in an arena and the horde is building up, switch the map to a large one with multiple fronts.
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Skuzzy, the best, and possibly most whine-preventing fix I see is to not only make more maps, but to switch them as more and more or less and less people are in an arena.
This will result more whines, MANY more, not less.
Maps would be switched several times a day, which would fully remove any kind of "strategic" gameplay.
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Skuzzy by unhealthy do you mean lag issues or hording? If its hording then how about one large arena with a setting that sets a limit for planes that can up from fields in an hour or half hour.
I am not clear on this either. Exactly what is "Unhealthy" about so many people in one arena?. Especially if its the choice of the guy and the other 400 people that joined that arena. To me, its just as unhealthy as the guy being forced to join the "other" arena and being ganged and swarmed by guys with the #s or flying to some target with about 100 other guys.
People fly the 2 arenas for various reasons.1) ENY 2) Map sux in one arena (my biggest one) 3) squaddies are in that arena 4) they wanna milkrun 5) they wanna kill the milkrunners and 6) just cuz they want too. Now Caps are in place and elliminate choices we have. There wasnt one peep of whine that there were too many players in one arena when caps were off so why does this make the gaming enviroment unhealthy?
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eesh quite difficult to discuss the effects of having no dynamic caps at all and just using hard caps when everyone still has the dynamic cap mindset.
imagine the biggest map we have in LWO. the hard cap would be whatever the map can support without overcrouding becoming an issue. recently ive seen 600-700 in LWO with no major problems, so say 750 hard cap. now have a small map in LWB, one that can handle say 450.
from what ive seen the last few weeks, most people (90%?) like to fly in a busy arena (LWO). regardless of what those 90% think is "a decent fight" or what most would consider the critical mass for fun in an arena there are another 10% of players who are still happier to fly in LWB for whatever reason. they choose to fly in an arena with numbers so low that 90% wouldnt bother. it seems to me that these 10% are the ones that would have been put off by the original single 850 cap LWA.
of course there will still be a point where players are forced into LWB, when LWO is full at 750 players. there will be at least another 80ish players in LWB (our 10%) so the cap only effects peoples choice when there are 830+ players online. ie primetime.
thing is, this is predictable, we know when LWO is likely to be full or almost full, which is alot easier to deal with than the dynamic caps. a common cap whine is "but I want to fly with my squaddies in LWO!" the usual answer is "well get them to come to LWB!" nice idea but the dynamic caps make it impossible to work that way. you get them to come to LWB, then another squaddie logs in and because the caps have changed he cant get into LWB...
the difference between hard caps and dynamic caps is that the hard cap only effects players' choice at predictable times of the week/day where its downsides are reduced and can even be planned for, whereas the dynamic cap effects players choices almost constantly.
The reason we keep talking about the dynamic cap is because at this point it is our reality.
TT is the only time you'll see a cap over 500 in an arena. HTC has said "This number is above 50 and below 500. We can argue where that number is exactly, but it is irrelevant because we have more people playing aces high at the same time then the upper bounds of this number."... Skuzzy quoted it HERE (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,286937.msg3637472.html#msg3637472) ... which means that 500 is the upper limit. HT...using the numbers available to him for subscriptions and cancellations and population... which I'm sure he will NEVER release to the public..... knows that when the arena population runs over those numbers for any lenght of time he looses business.
So with subscriptions over that 500 number we need 2 arenas. Due to "herd mentality" people herd together where other people are so they will NEVER and they have proved this be able to maintain and even cap between the 2 arenas we MUST have.
So we must....
have a cap between 50-500 to maintain a healthy growth in the company.
have two Main arenas due to the number of subscriptions (which HTC hopes continues to grow)
have an automated way to populate both arenas so that 500 people are not having fun in a locked arena while the other 100 or so are NOT in the open one.
Now, Lusche pointed out how fight disappear as the people that are logged in are just holding a spot. I don't know if that's true, but maybe it's something HTC can look at. If it's the case, booting those in active might make the cap more responsive as the population turns over from Euro to US prime times.
I understand the need for the dynamic caps, and being in early US prime time I don't often run into an issue as the second arena has a pretty good population to make it fun for me, but I've read these boards a long time and havn't seen any other idea that isn't full of MORE holes than the one we use now. Maybe Hitech's answer HERE (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,286946.msg3639211.html#msg3639211) will work, but personally I think he'll hear more screams from those in the middle of missions or furballs that will have to be kicked when the arena is switched.
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indeed on a large map 500 may well be the optimum number the map can support. there will also be maximum and minimum numbers that still provide a reasonable experience for everyone which will have quite a wide range. beyond those numbers the gameplay drops off considerably. 750 may be too many for even the biggest map we have, but its a rough guess. the cap would have to be set per map.
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Skuzzy by unhealthy do you mean lag issues or hording? If its hording then how about one large arena with a setting that sets a limit for planes that can up from fields in an hour or half hour.
Unhealthy as in the social interaction, or lack thereof. Once so many people are in the arena, the ability to interact becomes hampered. The degradation in social interaction leads directly to players not subscribing as they perceive the community as unfriendly. This was observed for some time before HiTech bit the bullet and started testing different ways to get multiple arenas populated. The result yeilding the least amount of issues is what we have today. It is not perfect. Yet, once in place we started growing again and it was not a subtle change in growth it could almost be decribed as explosive.
This has all been explained by HiTech and Pyro both.
There just aren't enough players to support a healthy environment outside of US prime time. I was sick to death playing in Orange, with a huge map and only 100-150 players populating it.
Also, Skuzzy, would you be able to post AH2's subscription growth since day one to community? I would love to take a look at the numbers just out of interest.
While HiTech would be the only one to be able to answer that question, I feel pretty comfortable saying that is not going to happen.
eesh quite difficult to discuss the effects of having no dynamic caps at all and just using hard caps when everyone still has the dynamic cap mindset.
imagine the biggest map we have in LWO. the hard cap would be whatever the map can support without overcrouding becoming an issue. recently ive seen 600-700 in LWO with no major problems, so say 750 hard cap. now have a small map in LWB, one that can handle say 450.
from what ive seen the last few weeks, most people (90%?) like to fly in a busy arena (LWO). regardless of what those 90% think is "a decent fight" or what most would consider the critical mass for fun in an arena there are another 10% of players who are still happier to fly in LWB for whatever reason. they choose to fly in an arena with numbers so low that 90% wouldnt bother. it seems to me that these 10% are the ones that would have been put off by the original single 850 cap LWA.
of course there will still be a point where players are forced into LWB, when LWO is full at 750 players. there will be at least another 80ish players in LWB (our 10%) so the cap only effects peoples choice when there are 830+ players online. ie primetime.
thing is, this is predictable, we know when LWO is likely to be full or almost full, which is alot easier to deal with than the dynamic caps. a common cap whine is "but I want to fly with my squaddies in LWO!" the usual answer is "well get them to come to LWB!" nice idea but the dynamic caps make it impossible to work that way. you get them to come to LWB, then another squaddie logs in and because the caps have changed he cant get into LWB...
the difference between hard caps and dynamic caps is that the hard cap only effects players' choice at predictable times of the week/day where its downsides are reduced and can even be planned for, whereas the dynamic cap effects players choices almost constantly.
I will say it one more time. This cannot work. All you do is create one big arena and the second arena ends up being mostly unpopulated and subscription growth dies. You creat a situation where getting a fully functional second arena going does not happen until all the critical growth is over. Thereby, the second arena just withers away, and so does our growth.
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There are times when the minimum is 100 on both arenas. Maybe set a higher minimum Cap?
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indeed on a large map 500 may well be the optimum number the map can support. there will also be maximum and minimum numbers that still provide a reasonable experience for everyone which will have quite a wide range. beyond those numbers the gameplay drops off considerably. 750 may be too many for even the biggest map we have, but its a rough guess. the cap would have to be set per map.
Map size has nothing to do with it. Hitech ...using the numbers available to him... saw that anything over the 500 mark starts an unhealthy balance in the arena and leads to people UN-subscribing. See as unsubscribing is BAD to his pocket he had to come up with a way to populate 2 arenas at the same time... dynamic caps.
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Unhealthy as in the social interaction, or lack thereof. Once so many people are in the arena, the ability to interact becomes hampered. The degradation in social interaction leads directly to players not subscribing as they perceive the community as unfriendly. This was observed for some time before HiTech bit the bullet and started testing different ways to get multiple arenas populated. The result yeilding the least amount of issues is what we have today. It is not perfect. Yet, once in place we started growing again and it was not a subtle change in growth it could almost be decribed as explosive.
Skuzzy,
I had great social interaction with the comunity before the orginal MA was split up, even when there was 700-800 people on. But what do I know, it's not like I played the game almost every day I could back then...
Here's a thought, you might want to think about changing the first radio channel (/) to country instead of help when the game is first run. The amount of two week newbs I see communicating to each other using the help channel, completely oblivious to the other channels in the radio box is mind blowing. It even took me a couple of weeks to realise that I needed to press (shift+/ or is it ctrl+/) to comunicate with countrymen back when I first started playing.
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One of the early changes, as HiTech came to grips with the fact a single large arena was killing us, was to change around the radio channels in the hopes new players might actually subscribe. Whether or not it was actually subscription drop off, or players quitting faster than new ones would sign-up, or attrition due to players not staying as long, or all the above, we had stopped growing.
None of the subtle changes worked. Once HiTech settled on the dynamic cap, growth came back. We will never go back to a permanent large format static arena. It is imperative we occupy more than one arena with a healthy number of players in both, in order to continue to grow. How that is accomplished is the challenge.
Do you guys think we sit around here all day long trying to figure out ways to piss you off? If we could have sustained growth with static arena sizes, then that is what we would be doing. It was proven, beyond any doubt, there is no way to sustain growth with static arena sizes.
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The only idea that I have seen that might be viable is to enable players to enter "capped" arenas based on ENY and country numbers.
Example.
Orange
Bish: 180
Rook: 140
Knit: 120
Blue
Bish: 60
Rook: 100
Knit: 120
In the above example a Bish could could not get into Orange but a Rook or Knit could. Bish could get into Blue but a Rook or a Knit could not.
By allowing to enter an arena based on the country you are on if it balances out the numbers, regardless of the cap, is one way to promote a nice even spread of players.
It also allows you to join any arena at any time. You just might have to change countries in order to do so.
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The only idea that I have seen that might be viable is to enable players to enter "capped" arenas based on ENY and country numbers.
Example.
Orange
Bish: 180
Rook: 140
Knit: 120
Blue
Bish: 60
Rook: 100
Knit: 120
In the above example a Bish could could not get into Orange but a Rook or Knit could. Bish could get into Blue but a Rook or a Knit could not.
By allowing to enter an arena based on the country you are on if it balances out the numbers, regardless of the cap, is one way to promote a nice even spread of players.
It also allows you to join any arena at any time. You just might have to change countries in order to do so.
+1000 on this concept. I also think this will help the community bind together if they get a chance to fly with people they normaly wouldnt fly with ( no more chess piece super hero generals..yayy). Would you eliminate the option to swap countries though when you do get into that arena?
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Then you give power to big squads for all they have to do is switch sides to mess up the balance.
It still does not address the issue of how to get multiple arenas up to a level where both are fun to be in.
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It still does not address the issue of how to get multiple arenas up to a level where both are fun to be in.
More and more I'm favoring the hard kick concept. At a set time each day (when population usually is around 400 or so), there is a 15-10-5 min warning message, then everybody gets kicked and both arenas get a 200 players cap. Both arenas fill up very quickly with those 400 players just booted from LWO.
Yes I know it won't happen...
I'm just getting more and more frustrated with living in the wrong timezone, when in the evening I can only enter a 50-100 player arena with a large map when actually 250 players are online. An it's a huge difference in gameplay experience.
Yes, I am aware, I'm starting to sound like a broken record. :(
Skuzzy, could we please at least have it that way, that LWB has always a small map?
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Like everything else about the service and game, it is always a work in progress Lusche. I know Hitech is thinking about it everyday. I think this is one are where we all feel there has to be a better way to do it. We just have not found it yet. We are a tenacious lot, so hopefully something will give.
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That does not solve the unhealthy arena environment. If you think it does, please elaborate.
Is there somewhere to find out what "unhealthy arena environment" means. I've searched and found nothing. I really don't understand what this means. Is this a technical problem caused by big numbers a problem for the network and server environment? I'm trying to follow but just don't understand what this means. I once asked Hi Tech directly if haveing 1000 people playing in an arena was to much for the servers and network and he said no, that the game could support that number with no problems.
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Uh, I thought I defined it here (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,287168.msg3641145.html#msg3641145).
Yes, the game is designed to support 1,000 players in any given arena and the servers can support much, much more.
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Unhealthy as in the social interaction, or lack thereof. Once so many people are in the arena, the ability to interact becomes hampered. The degradation in social interaction leads directly to players not subscribing as they perceive the community as unfriendly. This was observed for some time before HiTech bit the bullet and started testing different ways to get multiple arenas populated. The result yeilding the least amount of issues is what we have today. It is not perfect. Yet, once in place we started growing again and it was not a subtle change in growth it could almost be decribed as explosive.
This has all been explained by HiTech and Pyro both.
While HiTech would be the only one to be able to answer that question, I feel pretty comfortable saying that is not going to happen.
I will say it one more time. This cannot work. All you do is create one big arena and the second arena ends up being mostly unpopulated and subscription growth dies. You creat a situation where getting a fully functional second arena going does not happen until all the critical growth is over. Thereby, the second arena just withers away, and so does our growth.
I’m guessing growth or the lack there of had more to do with the economy of the time then social interaction of large numbers in an arena. I’m just venturing a guess, but has there been a decline in the overall populations over the last two years.
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Then you give power to big squads for all they have to do is switch sides to mess up the balance.
It still does not address the issue of how to get multiple arenas up to a level where both are fun to be in.
It is my experience that most big squads tend to be very chess piece loyal.
Maybe I am confused by what you are saying here.
Are you saying they would switch to the low #'d side and then once in change back to the side w/ #'s? (if that is their particular chess piece?)
With my idea (or whomever came up with it originally) when you change sides to enter the arena w/ the low numbers the 1-hour to switch timer is activated. (you just changed sides) That would prevent what you just said from occurring.
It really is a decent idea the more I think about it. It would require some Coading or changing for the Lobby but it WOULD give players the ability to join the arena to help balance out the numbers.
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One of the early changes, as HiTech came to grips with the fact a single large arena was killing us, was to change around the radio channels in the hopes new players might actually subscribe. Whether or not it was actually subscription drop off, or players quitting faster than new ones would sign-up, or attrition due to players not staying as long, or all the above, we had stopped growing.
None of the subtle changes worked. Once HiTech settled on the dynamic cap, growth came back. We will never go back to a permanent large format static arena. It is imperative we occupy more than one arena with a healthy number of players in both, in order to continue to grow. How that is accomplished is the challenge.
Do you guys think we sit around here all day long trying to figure out ways to piss you off? If we could have sustained growth with static arena sizes, then that is what we would be doing. It was proven, beyond any doubt, there is no way to sustain growth with static arena sizes.
Wasn't it Hitech that said at the convention that this game is all about pissing people off? :devil
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It is my experience that most big squads tend to be very chess piece loyal.
Maybe I am confused by what you are saying here.
Are you saying they would switch to the low #'d side and then once in change back to the side w/ #'s? (if that is their particular chess piece?)
With my idea (or whomever came up with it originally) when you change sides to enter the arena w/ the low numbers the 1-hour to switch timer is activated. (you just changed sides) That would prevent what you just said from occurring.
It really is a decent idea the more I think about it. It would require some Coading or changing for the Lobby but it WOULD give players the ability to join the arena to help balance out the numbers.
I love the idea Lute. What was overlooked is the fact that you join a country..now squaddies that come in later potentially will be on different countries. We would have to enable them to fly together which would mean they would have to switch anyway.
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I’m guessing growth or the lack there of had more to do with the economy of the time then social interaction of large numbers in an arena. I’m just venturing a guess, but has there been a decline in the overall populations over the last two years.
Nope. Take 700 of your closest friends and pile them into an area where they can barely move, then try and talk to the guy on the other side of the crowd. Eventually, you get tired of trying to get above the noise level and you give up. Before you do give up, you get angry and just start yelling obscenities into the crowd. Others follow suit. The domino effect goes into full swing and you have a group of people who are just pissed off.
This is what it was like for any new user who tried to come into the game when we had one large arena.
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Nope. Take 700 of your closest friends and pile them into an area where they can barely move, then try and talk to the guy on the other side of the crowd. Eventually, you get tired of trying to get above the noise level and you give up. Before you do give up, you get angry and just start yelling obscenities into the crowd. Others follow suit. The domino effect goes into full swing and you have a group of people who are just pissed off.
This is what it was like for any new user who tried to come into the game when we had one large arena.
I don't buy it. I've never experienced that in an AH arena and I'm a long time player of AH. I also never experienced that in AW where I played for two years prior to switching to AH. I remember the good old days of AH before CAPS, side balancing attempt and the rest. I do know that I did take a break from AH for three to four months this past year, do to the economy, I was out of work and $15.00 a month went towards food and medical bills.
I know form my squad that we lost 5 people, they were long time players and the economy did them in. They also stated to a man, that they didn't like the attempt at side balancing. They felt that it was only a matter of time before AH was changed to a method that prevented Squad play
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You do not buy it because you are a long time player and that is exactly why you never saw what we saw.
The problem was new players never subscribing.
Look, this is not something we "guessed" at. It is absolutely quantifiable. Just because you chose not to believe it does not make it any less of a fact. This is actually one of the biggest problems with the dynamic caps. People insist we do not know what we are talking about, or we must be lieing about it.
Yes, that is what we do. We try our best to find ways to piss off players we depend on for a living. That makes so much more sense than anything else said.
It is becoming very clear to me there are people who are not going to believe what we say, no matter what. There is nothing more I can add to this thread. Believe what you want. I am over beating my head against the wall in trying to have a healthy and honest discussion about it.
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What about offering some sort of carrot when the arena caps kick in? A message in the text buffer, or pop up screen (that could be set like the .join command) that would occur when the caps kick and would offer some sort of reward like perk points to people who would switch and help populate the second arena? Once the 2nd/smaller arena reached a certain parity with the larger arena the reward would stop, the caps would keep people from switching back immediately.
I actually started this reply with another idea but quickly decided that it would be too easily exploited, wouldn't work and dismissed it. I may decide the same thing about this one if you give me another five minutes. :)
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It is becoming very clear to me there are people who are not going to believe what we say, no matter what. There is nothing more I can add to this thread. Believe what you want. I am over beating my head against the wall in trying to have a healthy and honest discussion about it.
while that may be true in a few cases, the rest of us are just trying to get our heads round what is a rather complex problem. since we dont have access to the data HTC does, we have to make a few guesses and assumptions (total arena numbers over time, join rates etc) from our own experience to try to work out a different way of doing things. the dynamic caps solve one problem, but add a bunch more so its worth looking at :)
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Given your analogy, (700 closest friends in a area) I’m just stating I never experienced the social decay that you describe. I have experienced times when our whole squad had to leave an arena because some of our members were locked out by the caps. That interrupted the fun. I don’t mind being outnumbered. I know that is part of combat.
I think that the changes to allow players to change sides to help balance out the numbers does not work. I ‘d like to see one large arena for game play in prime time USA.
I’m guessing your attempt at sarcasm :
Yes, that is what we do. We try our best to find ways to piss off players we depend on for a living. That makes so much more sense than anything else said.
is misguided.
You are right we don’t know what the decision making process is that HiTech Creations uses. We don’t see the subscription numbers and we have no access to exit polls taken when a two week member leaves and gives their reason for not subscribing. I can only guess they must all say that the number of players in the arena was to high. That when they decided to play a massive multiplayer online game. They had no idea that there woule be so many other players and all those other players prevented them from enjoying the game. I also can only guess that after the caps were installed and two week members left the game they gave reasons other then to many players in an arena. Oh, that’s right, when members leave the game, HiTech Creations doesn’t ask why someone is closing their account. Perhaps a signon poll should be taken :
X Do you want a large LW arena with no cap
X Do you want the arena balancing as is
X Do you want 3 LW arenas two with side balancing and one with no CAP
Be interesting to see the results of that poll.
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N/M.
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Nope. Take 700 of your closest friends and pile them into an area where they can barely move, then try and talk to the guy on the other side of the crowd. Eventually, you get tired of trying to get above the noise level and you give up. Before you do give up, you get angry and just start yelling obscenities into the crowd. Others follow suit. The domino effect goes into full swing and you have a group of people who are just pissed off.
This is what it was like for any new user who tried to come into the game when we had one large arena.
make the area bigger skuzz :aok Here's an idea... set up THREE LW MAs. One XL map rotation, One Lg to Med map rotation, and one small map rotation. Add equivalent caps to each arena that you would think is perfect for the arena, then sit back and watch. or if this idea doesnt work then just add the third arena and leave the map rotations the same. I also think that it'd be easier to get the MAs to get players in equal amounts compared to each other by allowing map voting. and map voting would also take out the recent map until 2 or 3 rotations happened so as to stop the constant playing of the same map.
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I have been around for about 3 years. I have quit several times due to only one reason. I will join a squad, then I log in and cant play with them due to arena being full. In my old squad from a couple of weeks ago, there were 5 players and we would be split among two arenas due to cap. I could understand squads having 20+ players, but 5 of us? I was about ready to quit again, then the ww1 arena came in and there was no arena caps. that was the most fun I have had for a while, then they're back again and now its time again to battle the arena cap to join your squad.
So now I started to wonder if its worth the hassle to play. keep in mind I spent about 2k in computer, joystick, itrak, etc, just to play this game. I dont use my computer for anything else, except to play this game and pogo. I have to work swing now so I can only play untill 1pm pst or after 10 pm pst. I have not even bother to log in the mornings, due to last year when I worked swing I always had a choice between an arena with 200 or so, or another with about 60 players. I love furballing and not much going on with about 60 to 100 players in one arena. nothing better in his game than having 15 to 20 guys battle each other, I dont even care about the kills as long as I get to shoot at somebody :banana:.
So I'll probably be gone again soon dont think the arena cap is gonna change and it's not worth the frustration to keep logging on/off to join the arena you want.
semp
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make the area bigger skuzz :aok Here's an idea... set up THREE LW MAs. One XL map rotation, One Lg to Med map rotation, and one small map rotation. Add equivalent caps to each arena that you would think is perfect for the arena, then sit back and watch. or if this idea doesnt work then just add the third arena and leave the map rotations the same. I also think that it'd be easier to get the MAs to get players in equal amounts compared to each other by allowing map voting. and map voting would also take out the recent map until 2 or 3 rotations happened so as to stop the constant playing of the same map.
just look at guncrasher and travelers posts and you'll get your answer. It doesn't matter that HTC needs to do this to keep the game going, both of these guys couldn't care less, it's all about "them". THEY need to fly with their squad, THEY need to fly in a certain arena, THEY don't believe anything HTC has to say, it's all about THEM !
If HTC opened 3 arenas with a cap of 500 (because that is the top end of population for a healthy arena), arena "A" would fill first, and never drop below the cap until very late night night US, early morning Euro. As long as there was 500 people logged on they would be in "A". over flow would be in "B" and milkers in "C" :D Arena "B" would only come close to filling Prime time US on Saturday night. Other than that it would be low numbers and all of those people complaining about NOT being able to get into the "A" arena where there is more people to shoot at.
Thats why there is the dynamic cap system. If 600 people are logged in 300 are in one arena and 300 are in the other. That give them 2 arenas with enough numbers to make it fun for everyone instead of one with 500 and the other to split 100 between 3 countries.
Its a necessary evil, and until another plan can be put together that would work better, it's what we are stuck with.
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while that may be true in a few cases, the rest of us are just trying to get our heads round what is a rather complex problem. since we dont have access to the data HTC does, we have to make a few guesses and assumptions (total arena numbers over time, join rates etc) from our own experience to try to work out a different way of doing things. the dynamic caps solve one problem, but add a bunch more so its worth looking at :)
The problem here is that just about any solution is going to demand some sort of sacrafice from the players. The process of finding a solution which is the less evil to what we have going on now is no easy task.
IRL, my job demands someone with a real troubleshooting gene and this topic has been gnawing at me for days now outiside the game. The fact that its such a challenging task erks me even more and the fact that AH is on my mind when Im not playing has made me wanting to blow my brains out :furious. jk.
I think the community has some real good ideas in mind. I think to come up with any resolution, a few small ideas can be implemented to form the big picture. ( I really like Lute's idea of evening the country sides if they want to join an arena). Perhaps this can be part of a solution and maybe work in how squads can stay together and so on.
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. If 600 people are logged in 300 are in one arena and 300 are in the other. That give them 2 arenas with enough numbers to make it fun for everyone instead of one with 500 and the other to split 100 between 3 countries.
While you are basically right why the caps do have to be dynamic and not static, the last sentence makes me chuckle a bit. Because that's exactly the situation I face every evening because of the arena caps. ;)
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Perhaps a signon poll should be taken :
Be interesting to see the results of that poll.
There's just one problem with polls: Players tend to give answers without thinking of the consequences. You can see this quite a lot on this BBS, when people bring some favourite gameplay ideas again and again that would not really work well or even damage the game if implemented. Or you can see them vote for airplanes that when put into the game almost nobody flies. Or voting "yes, we want" on a WWI arena, then leaving it after a week. ;)
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While you are basically right why the caps do have to be dynamic and not static, the last sentence makes me chuckle a bit. Because that's exactly the situation I face every evening because of the arena caps. ;)
I agree Lusche, you guys across the pond are screwed. Like I said before, if the Atlantic was a couple of time zones bigger it would work out ok. I don't know what the solution is, nor does HTC, but I'll bet they think on it often. Wouldn't you want to cure the biggest "customer complaint" (caps) as soon as possible? The rest would be smooth sailing after that ..... well maybe not with some of the people we have playing these daYS :P
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Wouldn't you want to cure the biggest "customer complaint" (caps) as soon as possible?
I always thought the biggest complaint is either ENY or collision model :D
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I always thought the biggest complaint is either ENY or collision model :D
maybe it's time for a few more pie charts :neener:
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just look at guncrasher and travelers posts and you'll get your answer. It doesn't matter that HTC needs to do this to keep the game going, both of these guys couldn't care less, it's all about "them". THEY need to fly with their squad, THEY need to fly in a certain arena, THEY don't believe anything HTC has to say, it's all about THEM !
stating my honest opinion as a customer, ht doesnt really ask why we quit, just some general question. but not very specific. I need to fly with my squad, because that's why we have squads, to fly together. and I need to fly in a certain arena because I want to be in the arena with high numbers, best chance of furballing, which is only reason I am in the game. You are right its all about me, I spent a lot of money in hardware to play this game and keep on paying monthly dues. It is in my interest for ht to continue growing, but if the game gets boring to me then I wont play, If I dont play then why keep on paying.
semp
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And therein lies a large part of the problem. Players thinking they need to be in the high count arena to be able to have fun. If you are looking to furball and you head into a strat arena, then it probably would take several hundred players to find a handful who want to furball and not play strat war.
The issue here being, you are looking at the wrong arena to find your fun, but it is not an uncommon problem.
Yesterday, I went into the WW1 arena with only 10 players in it. The difference here is, those 10 players all have the same mindset. They want to furball and do nothing else. It was a blast. I'll take that 10 player arena for furballing over a 500 player arena full of strat players any day of the week.
I'll never understand squads who refuse to fight between themselves either. Seems to me if you want quality fights, you fight against those you know best as friends. One squad, split up between two fields, could furball all night and have a blast. I often think players who are part of a squad and refuse to do that, are just looking for easy kills and not really good fights at all. i.e. It is much easier to cherry pick a 500+ player arena, than actually mix it up with like-minded players.
Then again, it could simply be they do not want to put any effort into getting what they want and expect it to be served up on a silver platter.
Bottomline is this; This game is really all about what you make of it. If you expect everyone around you to play the way you want to play, you are in for disappointment and frustration. One of the big reasons squads exist is to allow a mechanism for like-minded players to get together so you do not have to find others who play the way you like. It allows instant action (in any arena) when you finally put the "I aint playing against my sqaud" mentality away.
The dynamic caps exist because human nature is go to the "big" arena. Afterall, it must be the fun place to be or it would be empty. Some type of system will always be there. You learn to work with it and have fun, or try to fight it and be miserable.
Yes, it does create problems for different time zones. And yes, everyone here is still trying to come up with a way to reduce the issues that exist with the current system, without creating more problems. I am also thinking when we re-introduce the head-to-head arenas, they will serve to reduce some of these issues.
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Yesterday, I went into the WW1 arena with only 10 players in it. The difference here is, those 10 players all have the same mindset. They want to furball and do nothing else. It was a blast. I'll take that 10 player arena for furballing over a 500 player arena full of strat players any day of the week.
The one downside i've seen in WWI already though is the score ho's already, they try to steal kills etc. I'm not always flying in WWI so idk if it happens all the time but i lost 2 kills a few weeks ago due to people jumping a con im already shooting up parts flying off.
Then again, it could simply be they do not want to put any effort into getting what they want and expect it to be served up on a silver platter.
Nailed it, set it, puddied it up, and painted over it :aok
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Took me 4 hours to get into orange today to play with sqadmates. And just now having a awesome tank fight in orange and goot booted and I can't even get back into orange. This is Ridiculous and very Frustrating. Please remove the cap and let us play where we want to play. Thank You
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It will never happen, for reasons HTC has stated. If your squad cared, they'd meet you in Blue.
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It will never happen, for reasons HTC has stated. If your squad cared, they'd meet you in Blue.
This.
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Yeah. Take those damn caps off indoors..! It's rude.
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It will never happen, for reasons HTC has stated. If your squad cared, they'd meet you in Blue.
Well, it did happen for a while, when WWI arenas were added. Didn't anyone else notice? :uhoh
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Well, it did happen for a while, when WWI arenas were added. Didn't anyone else notice? :uhoh
did notice was the most fun I have had in a while. I am working swing shift, I dont even bother to log, last year when i worked swing i had a choice of a closed 200 player arena or a 60 player mostly porker arena. I gave up and played pogo. which is what I do now. triying to think of ways to justify playing sayint to myself the 160 players at 10 pm pst aint too bad. but i remember when there was no caps we had at least 250 players here. oh well, choice is either take it or leave it and play pogo permanently. same reason i quit several times before.
semp
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did notice was the most fun I have had in a while. I am working swing shift, I dont even bother to log, last year when i worked swing i had a choice of a closed 200 player arena or a 60 player mostly porker arena. I gave up and played pogo. which is what I do now. triying to think of ways to justify playing sayint to myself the 160 players at 10 pm pst aint too bad. but i remember when there was no caps we had at least 250 players here. oh well, choice is either take it or leave it and play pogo permanently. same reason i quit several times before.
semp
i gotta say...log on at a different time... I log on around 9am EST and 4-6pm EST. I have a blast
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ok, so ive read that the capping is a result of aces high not growing. i was ready to cancel due to lack of interest on my part in the main arena and lack of new maps. ww1 saved me. but anyways,
so here goes my idea: instead of capping the number of people in an arena, how about capping the number of planes a base can support in the air? lets say a small base can support 20 aircraft, 30 for a medium base, 40 for a large base. this way you will force a country to spread the fights. we all know its really annoying to not be able to get in the "big arena". what was evident was that more players liked having the caps removed by looking at the numbers.
by capping the number of planes a base can support, missions will need to be planned different. town killers up from 1 base, fighters from another. this kind of change will allow squad nights to not be interupted, will allow everyone to be in the arena with the big numbers, will limit the hordes in 1 small area. the maps are large enough to support this, the are too big to have a cap of 200. hopefully skuzzy will read this idea as i have not read this anywhere else.
Says the horder. Interesting.
perdweeb
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321bar I work swing shift that means 2 to 10 PM PST.
Semp
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is it time to go for another LW arena yet? same dynamics? the only reason one is more populated than another is the favorable map... maybe a better map rotation then?
I'm sure the map plays a factor, but what about flying with your squadmates? That's the priority for myself and sometimes it takes hours to even get into the arena there in. Something needs to change.
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is it time to go for another LW arena yet? same dynamics? the only reason one is more populated than another is the favorable map... maybe a better map rotation then?
ive mostly noticed the big crappy maps that nobody like in arange with 201/150 numbers and the cool smaller maps in blue with 61/150 numbers. these aren't exact numbers, don't quote me. ( i know some of you really want to )
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I'm sure the map plays a factor, but what about flying with your squadmates? That's the priority for myself and sometimes it takes hours to even get into the arena there in. Something needs to change.
Maybe your squad needs to change over to blue if flying together is that important.
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... but what about flying with your squadmates? That's the priority for myself and sometimes it takes hours to even get into the arena there in. Something needs to change.
Yep, and the something that needs to change is the attitude of your squad. If it truly is important to fly together, you would all go to an arena where you can fly together.
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Yep, and the something that needs to change is the attitude of your squad. If it truly is important to fly together, you would all go to an arena where you can fly together.
Well I'm speaking for myself and not the squad. I enjoy flying with the people I know and have some conversations. Orange is the better map and the more fun and thats where they fly. If I can't get in there to fly in orange I fly in blue by my lonesome. All I've heard is complaints about the arena cap, does anyone like it and explain why please I want to hear some opinions from the other side of the scope.
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Maybe your squad needs to change over to blue if flying together is that important.
Everyone likes the orange map better right now Fugitive but I guess everyone goes to where the action is and Orange is normally it.
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Maybe your squad needs to change over to blue if flying together is that important.
Hmm :headscratch: If every squad that wanted to fly together ....... :airplane: :airplane: went to the arena with the lowest numbers :headscratch: :airplane: :airplane: :airplane: :airplane: ....wouldn't it soon become the arena that is capped...... :confused:
Nothing ruins a good run with with a group of your buds faster than trying to move them to another arena, after they have assembled in one. I say this because the caps change, if you haven't noticed.
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Everyone likes the orange map better right now Fugitive but I guess everyone goes to where the action is and Orange is normally it.
Thats where everyones thought process stops. WHat if we continued the process a bit farther.
- ok orange is full, use radio to call squad into blue.
- squad finishes up latest NOE horde run :P and switches to blue
- nothing going on so YOUR squad starts a fight.
- after a base or two falling easy some defenders WILL show up to try and slow you down and your having fun again.
Hmm :headscratch: If every squad that wanted to fly together ....... :airplane: :airplane: went to the arena with the lowest numbers :headscratch: :airplane: :airplane: :airplane: :airplane: ....wouldn't it soon become the arena that is capped...... :confused:
Nothing ruins a good run with with a group of your buds faster than trying to move them to another arena, after they have assembled in one. I say this because the caps change, if you haven't noticed.
And this is about the silliest thing anyone could say! Like I said above start your own fight in the second arena. Should the second arena fill up and cap out .....like it should.... the same thing happens all over in the other arenas.
Instead of looking at this as a negative, work out ways to flow with it. Learn how to start a fight better. Learn how to spot a fight better and so on. Switching arenas shouldn't be any more trouble to your self/squad than it is to switch to fighting on the other front of the same map! Too many people hold on to this BS that all the "cool kids" fly in Orange.
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And this is about the silliest thing anyone could say!
no it isnt, smileys aside chilli nailed it there.
with fixed caps, your scenario would work fine - LWO is full, call your squaddies into LWB and start a fight.
with dynamic caps, LWO is capped, call your squaddies into LWB. as they leave LWO it goes under the dynamic cap threshold and now LWB is capped and LWO has slots. Now half your squaddies are in LWB, the other half are in the lobby and cant get into LWB. so ... call them into LWO. same thing happens all over again.
we've tried doing what you suggested in the past, and the result was what I described above. end result was we just wasted 30-40mins dicking around logging into one arena or the other and the squad was still split between the 2 arenas just like when we started...
the point is that the dynamic caps make any kind of planning like this impossible.
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I've never seen that cap change that fast, unless your moving large numbers of people, or there is very low numbers in the arenas. Also, if the numbers are that close to bumping the cap, it only takes a couple of tries to get into which ever arena your trying to get into.
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ive mostly noticed the big crappy maps that nobody like in arange with 201/150 numbers and the cool smaller maps in blue with 61/150 numbers. these aren't exact numbers, don't quote me. ( i know some of you really want to )
guess it's all about taste huh? but i've loved alot of LWBlue maps in its rotation along with Orange
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There's life beyond LW arenas you know?...
Never had trouble finding a arena to log into. But I find myself more frequently going all the way from EW, MW to LA to find a air-to-air fight...
Cheers,
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no it isnt, smileys aside chilli nailed it there.
with fixed caps, your scenario would work fine - LWO is full, call your squaddies into LWB and start a fight.
with dynamic caps, LWO is capped, call your squaddies into LWB. as they leave LWO it goes under the dynamic cap threshold and now LWB is capped and LWO has slots. Now half your squaddies are in LWB, the other half are in the lobby and cant get into LWB. so ... call them into LWO. same thing happens all over again.
we've tried doing what you suggested in the past, and the result was what I described above. end result was we just wasted 30-40mins dicking around logging into one arena or the other and the squad was still split between the 2 arenas just like when we started...
the point is that the dynamic caps make any kind of planning like this impossible.
why does EVERYONE have to be together??? cant a few be in one arena, a few in the other???
see then you can dominate both! :)
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guess it's all about taste huh? but i've loved alot of LWBlue maps in its rotation along with Orange
what if u got no taste?!? i base most of my decisions on coin flips....
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Thanks Holmes :salute
A voice of reason, from someone who actually might have friends :D
What you peeps don't get, or are trying to read into this is some sort of uber large squad, trying to dominate a single arena. That is not the case. I belong to a small squad and we all have different schedules. The likelihood that more than a few of us get on at the same time is amazing. I think that it is just awful that arena caps, split even the smallest of groups into different Late War Arenas (PERIOD)
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Grown men don't want to swap from 1 arena to the next and then back to another. Were not kids and shouldn't have to switch arenas from one to another. If we like the orange map and were playing in there you should be able to go in there and have fun instead of it saying 250/200 or whatever. If you want to fly with your squad and chat it up and have a good time you should be able to do so without switching arenas.
Good Points Chilli and Holmes
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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what if u got no taste?!? i base most of my decisions on coin flips....
well you would be the lucky one to get it right eh? :lol
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Thats why there is the dynamic cap system. If 600 people are logged in 300 are in one arena and 300 are in the other. That give them 2 arenas with enough numbers to make it fun for everyone instead of one with 500 and the other to split 100 between 3 countries.
If it were only that way, but if you check the numbers from time to time you are more likely to find it with one arena maxed out at 200 and one with 100 with a cap set at 150.
At least that's what I noticed.
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If it were only that way, but if you check the numbers from time to time you are more likely to find it with one arena maxed out at 200 and one with 100 with a cap set at 150.
At least that's what I noticed.
yup thats pretty much how it would be with 300 people logged in. Now bump that number up to 600 and you get 350 in one and 250 in the other. Fun in both arenas because the numbers are there. If it was a set number instead of dynamic caps you would have 500 in one arena closed out, and 100 people pissed in the other arena.
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ok, so ive read that the capping is a result of aces high not growing. i was ready to cancel due to lack of interest on my part in the main arena and lack of new maps. ww1 saved me. but anyways,
so here goes my idea: instead of capping the number of people in an arena, how about capping the number of planes a base can support in the air? lets say a small base can support 20 aircraft, 30 for a medium base, 40 for a large base. this way you will force a country to spread the fights. we all know its really annoying to not be able to get in the "big arena". what was evident was that more players liked having the caps removed by looking at the numbers.
by capping the number of planes a base can support, missions will need to be planned different. town killers up from 1 base, fighters from another. this kind of change will allow squad nights to not be interupted, will allow everyone to be in the arena with the big numbers, will limit the hordes in 1 small area. the maps are large enough to support this, the are too big to have a cap of 200. hopefully skuzzy will read this idea as i have not read this anywhere else.
What does any of this have to do with why arena caps exist?
HiTech
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What does any of this have to do with why arena caps exist?
HiTech
I don't know but I think he's on to something there. Stop a lot of these noe horde's if only 10 can up from a small field ect.
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What does any of this have to do with why arena caps exist?
I don't know but I think he's on to something there. Stop a lot of these noe horde's if only 10 can up from a small field ect.
Title of the thread should have been "My Horde Cap Idea". ;)
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Title of the thread should have been "My Horde Cap Idea". ;)
:rofl maybe or we've gotten off topic
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:rofl maybe or we've gotten off topic
or onto a better +1 topic? :aok
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What does any of this have to do with why arena caps exist?
HiTech
As far as I know arena caps exist because new players were not becoming subscribers, the MA contained to many players. That when the arena cap system was implemented the new players started signing up in droves and older long time players stopped leaving the game. Or at least that's the word that Skuzzy put out.
If that is the reason, perhaps you could have the two LWA arenas with the current cap system and that would be the only LWA that non subscribers could access, that way they are forced to play in a safe, controlled, fun environment. Just add one more LWA with no cap environment so that the squads could get in and the old timer would have an arena with no caps, None subscribers would not have access to this unsafe, uncontrolled, environment.
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Just add one more LWA with no cap environment so that the squads could get in and the old timer would have an arena with no caps, None subscribers would not have access to this unsafe, uncontrolled, environment.
Are you seriously so clueless as to think people do not see the net effect of this? Or that I would in any way take this seriously?
HiTech
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If that is the reason, perhaps you could have the two LWA arenas with the current cap system and that would be the only LWA that non subscribers could access, that way they are forced to play in a safe, controlled, fun environment. Just add one more LWA with no cap environment so that the squads could get in and the old timer would have an arena with no caps, None subscribers would not have access to this unsafe, uncontrolled, environment.
:huh idk if this is a suck up moment to hitech but wouldnt this lead to NOBODY paying to play?
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Are you seriously so clueless as to think people do not see the net effect of this? Or that I would in any way take this seriously?
HiTech
Why not consider my idea in it’s entirety, it would seem to address both sides of the problem. As stated by Skuzzy the problem is with large arena populations have had a negative impact on the two week trials not signing up to become subscribers. My suggestion would leave you with current capped environments just as is and one LW arena with no caps for those that want an uncapped arena. You limit the non-subscribers to the capped arenas so that they are not exposed to the harsh environment that prevents them from becoming paid members.
Subscribed members would be able to play in any environment as they do now, including the one arena with no caps.
What is the net effect, as I see it , your membership gets to play in the environment that they enjoy playing in. The none paying members are limited to arenas that are part of the caped system until they become paying members. Is that a bad thing? Is that unreasonable? I’ve read over and over in these threads that if someone has an idea to post. So I offered. Your response to my direct suggestion appears to be very hostile. It was offered in good faith. Why so hostile?
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:huh idk if this is a suck up moment to hitech but wouldnt this lead to NOBODY paying to play?
Everyone gets one two free trial then they must either subscribe to be in an online arena. That's exactly how it is now.
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When I was a two-week trial, I spent some time in one of the LW arenas - the caps were active. I found it to full of hordes, pickers and vulchers. If there were no caps, there would have been many many more people in there and that bad taste would have been greatly magnified. If I were limited to a "non-subscriber-only" arena, what would I have found? Noobs with no clue, no experienced players to fight against and ask questions of, an equally bad taste that very likely would have turned me away completely? I went to EW and MW and found a good mix of action and fun. One of the great things I like is that non-paying trial players have full access to everything the game has to offer. I started my subscription when my two weeks were up.
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When I was a two-week trial, I spent some time in one of the LW arenas - the caps were active. I found it to full of hordes, pickers and vulchers. If there were no caps, there would have been many many more people in there and that bad taste would have been greatly magnified. If I were limited to a "non-subscriber-only" arena, what would I have found? Noobs with no clue, no experienced players to fight against and ask questions of, an equally bad taste that very likely would have turned me away completely? I went to EW and MW and found a good mix of action and fun. One of the great things I like is that non-paying trial players have full access to everything the game has to offer. I started my subscription when my two weeks were up.
I think you would find that there are many players that enjoy flying in the Capped Environment that population would include many long time experienced players.
Besides the place to train is the training arena. What I am suggesting is the arena environment as is would remain as is. That there would only be one additional arena and that would be a LW arena with no caps. That arena with no caps would be unavailable to non subscribing members because as Skuzzy stated, HiTech has found that the large arena population with no caps was the cause of new players not signing up for a subscription.
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I think you would find that there are many players that enjoy flying in the Capped Environment that population would include many long time experienced players.
Besides the place to train is the training arena. What I am suggesting is the arena environment as is would remain as is. That there would only be one additional arena and that would be a LW arena with no caps. That arena with no caps would be unavailable to non subscribing members because as Skuzzy stated, HiTech has found that the large arena population with no caps was the cause of new players not signing up for a subscription.
It also caused a large number of subscribers (read oldtimers) to cancel their subscriptions. Face it, your never going to see a single, uncapped arena ever again, except for TT.
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It also caused a large number of subscribers (read oldtimers) to cancel their subscriptions. Face it, your never going to see a single, uncapped arena ever again, except for TT.
Why can't there be both? The caped arenas as we now have with the dynamic cap and one arena uncaped and let the player community play where they want. The players that want to be in the CAPed environment can play there. I'm not asking for the Caped Arena system to be removed. I'm asking for a return of the MA with no capes.
Why can't the subscribers play in the environment that they want. When I joined AH the MA was uncapped, had the arena been caped I doubt that I would have become a subscriber. I play on a Squad and pay to play on a squad in AH.
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Why can't there be both? The caped arenas as we now have with the dynamic cap and one arena uncaped and let the player community play where they want. The players that want to be in the CAPed environment can play there. I'm not asking for the Caped Arena system to be removed. I'm asking for a return of the MA with no capes.
Why can't the subscribers play in the environment that they want. When I joined AH the MA was uncapped, had the arena been caped I doubt that I would have become a subscriber. I play on a Squad and pay to play on a squad in AH.
The point is, that by human nature, most players would join that uncapped arena, hardly anyone would join the 2 capped arenas, and we'd be back to the same problem that caused the cap to be put on in the first place.
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To put it very bluntly.
Why can't the subscribers play in the environment that they want.
Because you pay me to fly in the environment I provide. And I provide the environment that the greatest number of players want, not what you want.
HiTech
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To put it very bluntly.
Because you pay me to fly in the environment I provide. And I provide the environment that the greatest number of players want, not what you want.
HiTech
I wasn't aware that High Tech Creations has ever asked me which enviornment I want. Did they take a poll?
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I wasn't aware that High Tech Creations has ever asked me which enviornment I want. Did they take a poll?
yes, when you took HTC's two week free trial of AH and then decided to become a paying subscriber.
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The point is, that by human nature, most players would join that uncapped arena, hardly anyone would join the 2 capped arenas, and we'd be back to the same problem that caused the cap to be put on in the first place.
The problem as discribed by Skuzzy was that HiTech discoverd that the two week trial members were not subscribing. That's why in my suggestion I offered that two week subscribers only be allowed in the capped arenas. if the majority of subscribers want the capped environment then they would play in the capped arena, not the uncapped one.
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yes, when you took HTC's two week free trial of AH and then decided to become a paying subscriber.
when I did the two week free trial of AH there were no capped it was just one MA.
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Wow. Can't believe you're still beating this dead horse expecting it to go any further. Sounds like your wish has been heard and dismissed. Time to let it die - unless you enjoy poking bears with sticks.
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i have this baad feeling about this thread... IN maybe?
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Wow. Can't believe you're still beating this dead horse expecting it to go any further. Sounds like your wish has been heard and dismissed. Time to let it die - unless you enjoy poking bears with sticks.
Not poking bears, just responding to comments. Nothing wrong with an exchange of information and ideas. No need for anyone to get upset or hostile.
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Im not sure how many 2 week trials are started on an average day but could it be required to have a 1 time training/information session with a trainer before being allowed in the LW arenas? Until that session is held newbs are only allowed in early and MW arenas? In this session the overall dynamic of the larger LW arenas could be explained?
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Im not sure how many 2 week trials are started on an average day but could it be required to have a 1 time training/information session with a trainer before being allowed in the LW arenas? Until that session is held newbs are only allowed in early and MW arenas?
Again, why? What's so special about LW? Is it because you have some skewed sense of only the elite should be allowed into Late War? If I loved WWII history and felt a connection with a certain Late War bird, found Aces High and went online with the hopes of actually being able to see what it was like to fly said bird...only to find out the game won't let me get into that "special" Late War arena...I'd uninstall the game and look elsewhere.
How long would it take to find and set up time with a trainer? Would his two week trial start only after this training session so he can fly the plane in the arena in which it's available?
Not poking bears, just responding to comments. Nothing wrong with an exchange of information and ideas. No need for anyone to get upset or hostile.
Not being upset or hostile. Just wondering why you keep trying to sell an idea to Hitech when he so eloquently stated his opinion:
Because you pay me to fly in the environment I provide. And I provide the environment that the greatest number of players want, not what you want.
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The problem as discribed by Skuzzy was that HiTech discoverd that the two week trial members were not subscribing. That's why in my suggestion I offered that two week subscribers only be allowed in the capped arenas. if the majority of subscribers want the capped environment then they would play in the capped arena, not the uncapped one.
That was not the problem as we described it. We said we were no longer growing, after change we started growing again. "that the two week trial members were not subscribing" and my statement are not in any way the same.
And people vote with their $ every day in answering that question.
HiTech
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That was not the problem as we described it. We said we were no longer growing, after change we started growing again. "that the two week trial members were not subscribing" and my statement are not in any way the same.
And people vote with their $ every day in answering that question.
HiTech
The degradation in social interaction leads directly to players not subscribing as they perceive the community as unfriendly.
I stand corrected, I assumed the subject was players not subscribing and assumed it was in reference to new players not subscribing after the two week free trial. I did not consider the renewal of a subscription.
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I was just throwing an option out there. I personally never had a problem with any arena when i first started playing. Not sure if i really count though since i played AH1, quit when the new AH2 version came out then have played off and on since. I dont like the cap myself and i dont seem to be in the minority group. Being a business owner myself I can see HTC point of growth. Number of players logged on at a given point in time doesnt change how much money HTC makes from the recurring billing per month. If you are playing less because you are unhappy with the format of the game but stay as a subscriber and new players are also added HTC gets the "growth" they are looking for. If long term players do decide to quit as long as new subscribers outnumber the people leaving in the short term you have growth. Just hope the long time players that are lost due to their frustration doesnt in the long run outnumber the new subscribers that play for a month then lose interest. That will be interesting to see.
To put it very bluntly.
Because you pay me to fly in the environment I provide. And I provide the environment that the greatest number of players want, not what you want.
HiTech
Actually I pay you to play in the environment that is provided by the social dynamic in the game....... The game itself is beyond quirky and the social atmosphere makes dealing with said quirkiness easier. If i didnt have the 200 channel to complain about a tree flipping a 40 ton tank and the majority of people to remind me its a GAME what would I do?
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meh, ignore this.
Beaten horse is beaten. heh
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HI,
My ideas on AH growing are related to the possibility to have good landscapes where to fight
and something that creates conditions between furballing and 1 vs 1 fight.
For example, have target around, as we had before (factories, etc.), created a condition
of the kind i said. I went there to damaged enemy side and hide myself waiting some
enemy pilot :D
It needs more target for few players only also one player at all:
About good landscapes I means nothing that must be necessary super graphically advanced
but something more variety winter, desert, as I suggested in other post. If I must died in a fight
I prefer to do so while I admire something that Dover sea or Colosseum or also little sheep (where u
took them)!
I know that is not a word but lines of code and compromise between costs and benefits.
Or try to use players help like players maps. The help of the rest of the world is a resource
as planes skins show (and we need some new skin! P51b are very awful).
:salute