Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: dirtdart on December 14, 2010, 02:59:14 PM
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Drop a layer of clouds to 1k or so. Would prevent bomb****s from spoiling the fight between the V-bases. Thoughts?
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Or Pork ords.
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Right.... so i want to have a nice GV fight in a part of the map designed to promote GV fighting so I need to fly an airplane over every XX minutes to drop the ords at two different bases so myself and 15 other GVers can have a real knuckle biter of a knife fight.
Yeah.... gonna need you to come in on Saturday.... yeah
My favorite map for the GV fight is the one where the TT is in the middle surrounded by high mountains. When a fight starts there it sure can get fun.
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It doesnt matter where you tank at... somebody will take 30 min to climb the mountains just to drop bombs.
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Tank Town..... never heard of it.
Why would we want to stop.... the reason we have tanks is to give us something to bomb.
It is a flight Sim after all.
Cavalry
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I think there should be puffy ack in Tank Town with lethality set to about 4 ( instant death in offline play )
It won't bother anything that's under 3k.
Kills anything above it.
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I think there should be puffy ack in Tank Town with lethality set to about 4 ( instant death in offline play )
It won't bother anything that's under 3k.
Kills anything above it.
cool fly in at 2k carpet bomb, next idea? no matter what you do someone and i mean SOMEONE will find a way to wreck your fun, but to him it's his fun, it's a neverending battle, accept it and play the game
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+1
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-2
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<------- bombs GVs.
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Drop a layer of clouds to 1k or so. Would prevent bombers from spoiling the fight between the V-bases. Thoughts?
I think fighters and jabos should be able to climb without losing any speed whatsoever... like the GV guys get to do when they
move off a road and go cross-country without any subsequent loss in speed.
I think fighters and jabos should be able to pick up "supplies" in the air, which somehow magically repair/replace
every single part on their aircraft which sustained damage.
I think certain parts of the air should be considered "concrete" for fighters and jabos so that they can loiter there
in the middle of an air to air fight. If they sustain damage, be it minor or major, they can just hit .ef and
miraculously reappear in the tower, resulting in a "successful landing" and denying the enemy a legitimate "kill".
I think there should be a "dOmE oF dEnIaL" 2K around every airfield and aircraft which repels any caliber round fired from a ground
vehicle at any airfield or aircraft.
I think any aircraft which is vulching should be able to hover over the field for two hours , receiving a full gun/cannon/ord loadout
immediately whenever a friendly C47 flies over it..or within 200 yards. The C47 would drop several crates of ammunition
which would be instantaneously loaded and armed.
I think aircraft should be able to magically "spawn" an entire sector or two away from a friendly airfield so they don't have
to waste precious time flying to or perhaps returning to a fight.
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Gving is all about spawn camping.
There is no ambush. There is no maneuvering.
Someone bombs to break the camp, or kills the vh's to break the camp.
Get over the :cry.
wrongway
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<------- bombs GVs.
LOL
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I think fighters and jabos should be able to climb without losing any speed whatsoever...
I think aircraft should be able to magically "spawn" an entire sector or two away from a friendly airfield so they don't have to waste precious time flying to or perhaps returning to a fight.
Helpful. You have never complained when bombed, eh....
You know I think I am going to start a thread called the most worthless responses to a thread ever. Or, better yet, the guys who know everything. Perhaps, Sarcasm...the lowest form of wit.
I seem to think that:
1. The airfields or at least one V-base on tank island should be uncapturable. It sucks when guys get on at 2AM and sweep the island.
2. There should be a part of the map of low strategic interest (like tank island) where people who want to GV should be able to fight without padding the scores of some self aggrandizing clown who wants to up their attack rating.
--Crusader
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Ah, nearly forgot. Yes we know you can tank in other arenas. Yes, this is a flight sim that has tanks. Acknowledged all. A plane can avoid GVs. GVs cannot avoid planes. Real...sure. Balanced in our cartoon world for some of the players who would appreciate a nice GV pure fight...no.
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We were getting bombed at V135 spawn from A126. Everyone would complain about the A20s but not a soul would come with me to pork the ords at A126. So get bombed and shut up about it or get off your dead butt and go kill ords at the offending air base. It is as simple as that.
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I agree with the OP that this is often an issue (there's some moral support for you).
There is also no question that the game can be tweaked to allow for GV-centric play, without taking away from the rest of the game. If we can come up with an elegant proposal to facilitate GV-centric play for the minority who want it, without hurting everyone else, I was going to post a Wishlist thread.
Some discussion related to this question occured in this thread: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,302241.60.html
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moin
in my opinion we have many ways to stop gv bombing, we dont need diverent places were the gvs can fight each other, we still have nice battel places.
if i start a tank, i first wil start a jabo for taking out the ords and better the bomber hangars, that helps alot.
but if we going to get the mobile 8,8 flack some day the gvs should be realy save and gv bombing will not happens often again.
maybe this would be the best inovation to stop the gv bombing discusion.
cu christian
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We were getting bombed at V135 spawn from A126. Everyone would complain about the A20s but not a soul would come with me to pork the ords at A126. So get bombed and shut up about it or get off your dead butt and go kill ords at the offending air base. It is as simple as that.
Yeah right. Lets face it that wont happen. I drop ords often but they will pop and I am not ditching a tank to go save five other guys. What you describe is a consequence of selfish behavior. Since this will always be the case answer why not have a place where GVs can fight it out. Why would this be any skin off YOUR back?
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This is probably the same few people that cried, screamed, and wailed in the Red Storm scenario because planes dared fly near them....
Give it up. You want to play without anybody around, try offline. You can stalk the parked drones all you want without pesky .... you know... PLAYERS.... getting in the way!
In the real world armored vehicles cannot operate without some air superiority...
In this game, as previously stated, 99% of all "GVing" is spawn camping. The other 1% is trying to break out of a spawn camp. (or perhaps driving TO a camped spawn). The whining and crying about "WAAAAH! There's a plane around!! BAN THEM!" is really sad. No matter how open or closed TT is, it's NOT the presence or absence of planes that will kill it.
Truth be told I much prefer the combined TT/FT with airfields and v-fields all in the center. You can find A2G, G2A, A2A, G2G action, whatever you like. It's inclusive (rather than exclusive). Besides, 99% of the time I'm over TT in a plane I'm looking for other planes and seeing only high contacts looking for me.
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Yet again a post gets radiation poisoning. If you read my post all I am suggesting is a cloud layer to deter bombing. If all you seek is a good plane fight how does this affect you?
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If all you seek is total isolation, play offline.
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Another clever and insightful comment.
There are a few players in here who would like a nice isolated gv fight. Since I know this is not going to happen I suggest a layer of clouds as a deterrent to the probability of bomb guys success. Most of the responses to this post have been mordant in nature. I sincerely don't see the issue. How would this simple suggestion effect the game as to illict some of the above posts. Especially since most who gv hate being bombed while in a nice gv on gv fight. Take last night. New panthers rolling in the middle of tt not porking bases just looking for a fight. They start slugging it out with shermans. All was cool until that lone a20 showed up and broke a very fun and technical gv fight.
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Krusty apparently has some sort of psychological issue with this concept - hence his over-the-top response. It is also clear that he hasn't bothered to read my contributions to this thread. If he had, he would have noticed the caveat "allow for GV-centric play, without taking away from the rest of the game".
Krusty; this is not necessarily a zero-sum situation here, where improving things for one group will necessarily ruin things for another. For example, note TT on Trinity. Relatively hard for AC to get to, so only a few a**holes make the effort. If we always had a similar place available, and if we added a game mechanism to publicise it (like the blinking indicator idea), then we would be good. No harm to you in that, right? And no need for your extreme posts (I could call them "whine responses" if I wanted to be obnoxious, but I won't).
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Relatively hard for AC to get to, so only a few a**holes make the effort.
I did read your biased and over-the-top posts as much as you read mine. The problem is you failed to get my point. I got yours. You're taking your ball and going home because you don't like to play with others.
See your quote there, for example. EVERYBODY that defies you by FLYING (omg!) around a GV fight is a swear word.
Yeah... sure.. THAT's a fair and balanced perspective (not!)
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???
You're taking your ball and going home because you don't like to play with others.
I never said this, or even implied it.
EVERYBODY that defies you by FLYING (omg!) around a GV fight is a swear word
I never said this either. I was referring only to people who fly over the 20K mountains surrounding Trinity TT, with the deliberate intent of pissing people off.
Apparently your case is so weak that you feel the need to create straw men, which you can then demolish.
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<----- loves killing GV's with the P-47D-25!
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<----- loves killing GV's with the P-47D-25!
And man, do it all day when they are base grabbing, spawn camping, etc... :rock
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Yes, Oakranger, we all know about your weaknesses... :)
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I like killing the one's that set up on top of a hill just sheeling the field when no one is there.
I do think the three gv bases at TT on the island map would work if uncapturable. I never saw a reason to capture those bases.
I'm no GV'er by any form of the word, but I see no reason why they can't have their sandbox too. Would serve to keep them from hitting usable air bases.
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Some of the best whines and explosions on 200 come from guys camping in gv's who get bombed. Why would we want to end that?
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Drop a layer of clouds to 1k or so. Would prevent bombers from spoiling the fight between the V-bases. Thoughts?
I fully support this idea.
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Snotrkt mentioned to me the other day that they should take ENEMY gv icons off. Wouldn't that settle most problems? :bolt:
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Yes, Oakranger, we all know about your weaknesses... :)
Oh, I disagree. There are many times I do this while cons in the air present. This gives me a more difficult task of dodging HOtards, pickers and uberdweebs that think I am a easy kill.
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Hmm...Ever heard the whines when you bring a Wirb/Osty under a low alt furball. Kind of the same thing isn't it?
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And if yould only see 1K above your head you probably would be less effective. And no, it is not the same argument.
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My point was that the furballers want pure air/air combat, then complain when you bring a wirb/osty into the mix.
You want pure ground/ground combat, then complain when they bring bombs into the mix.
I am trying to turn it around on the furballers, not you. I agree with you, not just pissing in your thread.
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maybe you should put a tanks only arena in the wishlist, the only tank only fights i ever see are spawn campers and ones trying to get away from the spawn campers, or tanks rolling onto a Airfield in that case i''ll up something to kill it period, if someones camping our spawn and not allowing anyone to spawn in i'll up a plane and kill him, plain and simple, he just wants to sit there spawn camping and land his 40 kills like its some great feat, good sit there eggs are on the way :aok
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I still say that if we go for a localized "sandbox" type solution, then it is basically win-win for everybody. The game gets a limited, localized GV-centric area for the "furball-style-GV" minority, and the rest of the MA is the same. No need to rant about a different style of game play ruining yours. But instead, some people take the following approach:
1) Recall the most annoying instances of the alternative play style, whether GV or AC.
2) Assume that all posters are practitioners of these annoying play styles.
3) Rant accordingly, using the word "whine" a lot.
4) (This is bad).
The challenge then is how to achieve the localized solution. As discussed in another thread, maybe all that is needed is a Trinity-type TT for all maps, and a "someone is there" indicator to attract the GVers.
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<rant> If all the GVers go off to their isolated part of the map all they are doing is detracting from the game as a whole. Some days I log on and think to myself "I'm going to get in an F4u and practice anti shipping." I will even say to myself "I'm going to up an IL-2 and go anti tank." People are paying $15.00 a month to play in an arena that supports combined opperations, and may want to bomb tanks. If all the tanks are off playing with them selves (pun intended.) an entire aspect of the game has gone away. What is wrong with the DA? Why don't you go to tank town? Thats right an A20 took the time to climb up there and drop all eight of its bombs. If that is your argument, all I can say is "SOFT" If you are in the MA with combined operations, someone will bomb you, its a part of the game. Keep whining like this and don't be surprised if you see a dedicated Tank Busting Squad.
</rant>
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TBA :rock
Tank
Busters
Alliance
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TBA :rock
Tank
Busters
Alliance
ill join :D lets get 10 lancs filled with 1000 lb bombs and get them. CHARGE!!!
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phatzo,
OK, there is some logic in your post. You oppose a dedicated GV space because you are worried that you will not have any GVs to bomb, right? You probably have nothing to worry about. Most players will still GV in the main arena, because they do it in the context of the strat game, or because they are looking for easy-mode kills. Right now, TT is there, but empty, as it usually is. I have never yet found anyone in the Trinity TT, and have spawned there at least once a night. Thus, I go away disappointed and do something else with my spare time. My fear is that even if we had a TT on every map, nobody would use it. (That's why, in addition to TT, we need some sort of flashing indicator to attract GVers to it).
However to make an editorial comment, if the above is your concern, it doesn't make much sense to, in the same post, advise GVers to "go the the DA" or "go to TT", as that is producing the situation which you want to avoid (removing them from the MA). It also doesn't make much sense to threaten them with "a dedicated tank busting squad" unless they STFU, since doing this will produce additional complaints (which you term "whines"), which is the opposite of what you claim to want. So I will assume that these illogical elements of your post are merely indications of your gameplay fears (i.e. background noise).
BTW, where in Australia is "gold coast"?
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Deacon
The reason I brought up TT and the DA is because thats where you can get a GV on GV fight with little to no interuption, but GVers dont seem to want to use it, instead they want accomodations made in the main to make it easier for them to fight unmolested by aircraft. This, to me, seems to go against the grain of the game.
The tank busting squad wasn't a threat but more of an observation judging on the reactions of others in the game, its human nature and the nature of the game for others to want to piss you off.
(http://www.gold-coast.net/images/australia.gif)
(http://blog.hotelclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/surfers-paradise-gold-coast-australia.jpg)
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You know what people like in gv's? SHORT DRIVESSSSSSSS
Make every map have 1 or 2 gv hotspots such as V85-V88.....V135.....you get the poooint
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phatzo:
Gold Coast is a nice-looking area. How far to the Great Barrier Reef? (My wife and I used to dive in the Caribbean).
BTW, to repeat, I don't want to screw up the MA; I just want a space where one can do GV-vs.-GV "furball" style fighting without AC, from time to time. I think this can be accomplished without screwing up the MA because most people don't want "furball" style GV play, but instead want "win the war" style GV play. Thus most will stay in the normal MA space. If my assumptions are correct, everyone will then be happy.
Belial:
When I construct my Wishlist idea, it will probably involve suggestions on (a) how the dedicated space might be constructed, and (b) how to publicize the presence of players in it. Your "short drives" suggestion could go in (a).
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Tank Town..... never heard of it.
Why would we want to stop.... the reason we have tanks is to give us something to bomb.
It is a flight Sim after all.
Cavalry
High fidelity flight simulation is the heart of Aces High but it doesn't end there. A war rages on the ground and at sea. Engage enemy armor in tank combat. Protect your fleet as a gunner or make a torpedo run in a PT boat. Lead an assault in an amphibious vehicle. With over 100 warbirds, vehicles, and boats available, you have access to a vast virtual arsenal.
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Leada sweetie ault in an amphibious vehicle.
lol at the language filter, it doesn't like donkeys.
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I've got an MA terrain submitted for approval to HTC at the moment. It has a tank town area with three bases surrounded by a ring of 13k mountains and permanent low cloud over the V bases. Each tank town V base can only be reached from the other two and from one other V base outside the ring of mountains which is deep inside that country's territory. This external V base can be spawned to from one of the country's uncapturable fields. So worst case scenario to get your tank town V base back is to capture two V bases and usually it would be only one and this can be one by GVs only.
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I've got an MA terrain submitted for approval to HTC at the moment. It has a tank town area with three bases surrounded by a ring of 13k mountains and permanent low cloud over the V bases. Each tank town V base can only be reached from the other two and from one other V base outside the ring of mountains which is deep inside that country's territory. This external V base can be spawned to from one of the country's uncapturable fields. So worst case scenario to get your tank town V base back is to capture two V bases and usually it would be only one and this can be one by GVs only.
Sounds really neat... but I'm afraid it may end up like the similar TT area on trinity. Players are not really used anymore to spawn into an area without intending to either attack or defend a base.
I have an idea for a GV friendly MA map without TT, but working with the TE.... :uhoh
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Oh, I disagree. There are many times I do this while cons in the air present. This gives me a more difficult task of dodging HOtards, pickers and uberdweebs that think I am a easy kill.
:rofl :rofl Think? :rofl :rofl You wont make it 2 turns past the merge with an average pilot... never mind above average. Stick to what you know... bomb and run.
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Or Pork ords.
:aok
:lol
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To reinforce my point, because some seem to misunderstand...
Just like there are sections of open water where AC can fight until they are blue in the face, there could be a similar spot on the map. On the two of the "tank island" maps, simply put a low cloud over say 10 miles, maybe 15. Enough to shelter the guys who want to GV from the score guys. Lets face it. The only reason why guys go out of there way to bomb GVs who are really out in the open fighting other GVs is to be mean or to promote their score. Neither are conducive to enhancing the gameplay for anyone but themselves. Sure, this is generation I and Y. I get that and some of the responses reinforce this. I imply nothing about giving GVs and advantage in base capture. I take nothing away from guys killing spawn campers and base porkers.
No one has answered the question, why would this small area of low clouds ruin the gameplay for them?
--Crusader
I've got an MA terrain submitted for approval to HTC at the moment...this can be one by GVs only.
Your contributions to the game are insightful and exceptional. Your posts are helpful and not belittling. It is unfortunate that so few with your experience contribute in a polite manner on the BBs to promote and not discourage discussion. <S>
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Once again kill the ords at the base the bomb tards are using to bomb your tank from. One P-51D with just two 500 lbs bombs can take out all 4 ords at a larger base and fly home. Yes they can resupply it. So go back and kill the ords again. If they are driving M3s with supplies they ain't bombing you. Remember that most people are too lazy to go kill ords so they don't get bombed. So what make you think the other side is not too lazy to resupply their base.
Take it from a guy who porks and resupplies a lot. I don't have much help porking bases or resupplying one. As for the low clouds over some GV spawn areas. I don't see a problem with that. It is not like the tankers have an over abundance of good GV spawn points to start with. We really only have two good map with about one good spawn each. Every thing else has such a long drive to get to GV you need a DOT log book to track miles and driving time. As for low clouds, it worked for the Germans at the Battle of the Bulge.
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:rofl :rofl Think? :rofl :rofl You wont make it 2 turns past the merge with an average pilot... never mind above average. Stick to what you know... bomb and run.
hummm...and how the hell would a tool head like you would know this?
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+1 Greebo
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Sounds really neat... but I'm afraid it may end up like the similar TT area on trinity. Players are not really used anymore to spawn into an area without intending to either attack or defend a base.
I have an idea for a GV friendly MA map without TT, but working with the TE.... :uhoh
I'm not exactly clear on the geometry, but there does need to be something at the spawn point to attack. If this terrain consists of a series of V-bases within driving distance of each other (as on Ozkansas TT island, but without the airfields), then it will work. That's because the first guy in can start attacking the other bases. They will blink, attracting more GV players. Etc. The additional players will have to be in GVs because the terrain is (should be) designed to deter AC.
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The tank town bases on my map are in a triangular arrangement about 6 miles apart from each other. Each base has three spawn points into the centre of tank town, the centre one of these puts you about 4 miles from the enemy bases. I can't remember what the base flashing radius for GVs is, isn't it 5 miles? If anyone wants to try my terrain out, you can download it here: CraterMA.zip (http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots3/CraterMA.zip) Just put the unzipped files in your ahiiterr folder and it should appear in the available terrains list when you open AH. Note the tank town base cloud cover takes about 45 minutes to fully generate after the terrain is started.
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The tank town bases on my map are in a triangular arrangement about 6 miles apart from each other. Each base has three spawn points into the centre of tank town, the centre one of these puts you about 4 miles from the enemy bases. I can't remember what the base flashing radius for GVs is, isn't it 5 miles? If anyone wants to try my terrain out, you can download it here: CraterMA.zip (http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots3/CraterMA.zip) Just put the unzipped files in your ahiiterr folder and it should appear in the available terrains list when you open AH. Note the tank town base cloud cover takes about 45 minutes to fully generate after the terrain is started.
The base warning range for GV is 3 miles, on your terrain the bases will not flash if someone spawns to TT.
On the other hand, if they would do, I'm afraid the player response would just be to up on that base "under attack" and waiting for the enemy to arrive. After all, if you would spawn to TT, your base could get captured meanwhile.
Ands another thing. One "trick" that could work getting people to tank town is to give those 3 bases the lowest field numbers. That way everybody will start in a TT base tower. If you look at the distribution of fights on the various maps, it really works that way.
That being said, I really hope we will see your terrain in the MA soon! :rock
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I suppose I could compress tank town enough to get the bases flashing immediately someone spawns. There wouldn't be a lot of room to fight though and there wouldn't be as much reaction time to prevent captures. As it is one of the bases will start flashing as an enemy GV reaches that base's own furthest spawn point.
I also noticed how some maps always generate the same A1-A2 fights because of field numbering layout. On some maps it can sometimes be a waste of time logging into the country that doesn't have A1 or A2. Tends to make the maps get a bit stale IMO.
For that reason on my map I made A1-A3 the three uncapturable fields next to the strat cities. Players will always log in to one of those fields irrespective of the position of the frontlines and would normally have to switch fields to get to a fight. Ought to make for more variation in gameplay.
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I suppose I could compress tank town enough to get the bases flashing immediately someone spawns. There wouldn't be a lot of room to fight though and there wouldn't be as much reaction time to prevent captures.
I would leave it the way it is. Right now there is plenty of room to maneuver, and as I said before I fear flashing bases alone wouldn't improve play, as then the most probable reaction would be just to sit on the base.
I also noticed how some maps always generate the same A1-A2 fights because of field numbering layout. On some maps it can sometimes be a waste of time logging into the country that doesn't have A1 or A2. Tends to make the maps get a bit stale IMO.
For that reason on my map I made A1-A3 the three uncapturable fields next to the strat cities. Players will always log in to one of those fields irrespective of the position of the frontlines and would normally have to switch fields to get to a fight. Ought to make for more variation in gameplay.
Makes sense :)
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I very strongly suggest that we use a geometry guaranteeing that a base will flash. That will bring in the players. Lack of players is the current problem with Trinity TT, as you can't tell if someone is in there. In the worst case, even if someone merely "sits on the base", it generates an interesting fight. However, in Ozkansas, once people are in there, they typically go offensive and leave the bases, which is the ideal we are striving for.
One way to do this, Greebo, is perhaps to put 3 Vbases in the center, identically spaced to what we have in Ozkansas TT. (In other words, leave out the center town). The first player in will be able to generate attention by starting to capture one of these Vbases, which will cause them to flash. Radiating out from this Vbase there should be a series of additional Vbases from each country, spaced as in the Ozkansas TT. Leave out the Air bases, ring with mountains, and make the whole thing relatively distant from any air bases outside the mountains. The Ozkansas layout gives plenty of "room to fight", and is quite interesting to play in. I don't think it loses anything by leaving out the center town. It's main problem is that it's too easy to fly AC to.
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As an example of the need for "flashing" behavior, I was in TT last night. I went in there because a base was flashing, and there were no AC indicated. Enemy GVs were attacking the base. Leaving the base to another player, I spawned at the spawn point, past which the attackers had to drive, and was able to get fights. These fights attracted other players (by sound I assume), and we had a decent GV environment for an hour or 2, until some idiot brought in a B25H.
Note that it was the base flashing which started the whole process.
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Hi Greebo,
I just downloaded your "craterma" map; interesting and attractive. Some comments on the GV "TT" area:
1) On my system (old ATI graphics), I can't see the TT water; it looks like normal flat terrain.
2) Make the center island round, so movement isn't so channelized. This also leaves room for some small mountains.
3) Put at least one mountain on the center island, to allow the option of climbing it in order to see better. This works well on the Ozkansas TT, where the mountains add an interesting tactical element, without totally dominating things.
4) It takes too long to get to the opposing vehicle bases from the center island spawn points, meaning that a single intial player can't present a credible threat to them in the time allowed. I think we want a single player to be able to do this, in order to motivate other players to enter TT in GVs to defend. Otherwise, the single player sits there by him/herself. So, either move the 3 Vbases closer to the center island, or add a 4th captureable Vbase on the center island. To compensate for cases where players capture all 3 or 4 Vbases during off-hours, I think we need to put the recapture spawn points (coming in from outside TT) closer to the Vbases to facilitate recapture. Long drives are not enjoyable, and if long enough, make it impossible for a single player to capture/recapture a Vbase. I think the current Ozkansas TT has the ideal spacing.
5) Are you sure the mountains are high enough? You said 13k? What about 30k? Antisocial types will bring in bombers from time to time, and we want them to suffer as much as possible.
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Hi Deacon,
Thank you for the feedback.
Your point about the rivers not showing up on systems with old style graphics is not something I had considered. I'll have to redesign tank town and other parts of the map simply because of that as it would be a definite reason for rejection for HTC. Shame really, because I quite liked the idea of GVs having to cross the rivers.
My thinking in channeling the player's into a narrow area of play on tank town was simply to make it easier for players to find one another. I tried to avoid big hills because it takes so long to climb up them. I'll rethink it all though in light of your comments and also have a look at Ozkansas for inspiration.
When I get time I'll draw up some diagrams of possible tank town layouts and post them for you and everyone else to look at before committing anything to the terrain editor. The spacing of the central fields and spawn points are going to have to be precisely laid out for this to do what you want and be fair to all three countries. I might add three more outer fields in the crater. These would have spawns near to the inner fields but there won't be any spawns from the inner to the outer fields. I might make the outer fields higher up as well to make them a real pain to reach.
I vaguely recall that HTC don't like stupidly high mountains on MA maps. Also I think it would look a bit silly and I have put a lot of effort into making the terrain look as natural as possible. I think the low cloud over the TT bases would be more of a deterrent to tanktown griefers anyway.
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Greebo is it possible to put low clouds in without killing fps on less capable systems?
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The low clouds idea seems to be a good answer. TT spawns and the bases could be moved closer together also.
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It's only six clouds per V base, the bottoms of the clouds are about 1k above the ground. I've seen bigger low alt cloud formations in MA terrains before now so it shouldn't be a problem.
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or just up a wirble next time and when I get too close, if you can shoot, knock me outa the sky. One GV'er does it almost every time I bomb**** him more than once. :old: :banana: I like it 'cause it's a challenge to kill his wirble without getting towered myself. Don't get mad, get even. :cheers:
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Guys, are you sure clouds will work?
1) Unless they are thick, you can see the GV icons down through through them, especially since you can change the color and size of the icons.
2) Even if you can mask GV icons, the IL-2s and B25Hs can fly around at low altitude.
I think we need a different/additional mechanism than/to clouds. The best one is making it very time-consuming for someone to get to TT in a bomber, meaning very high mountains and distant airbases.
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after all this are you going to make it safer to keep the GV's away from Airfields, i dont want them shooting our planes as they take off, it will wreck the flying aspect of the game for people who just want to fly and not be hassled by those peskie Wirbles and Osti's and Armor who just want to shoot my plane up, sense Tanks don't want to be targeted by planes then please keep them away from the airfields......... thank you..... that is all :salute
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after all this are you going to make it safer to keep the GV's away from Airfields, i dont want them shooting our planes as they take off, it will wreck the flying aspect of the game for people who just want to fly and not be hassled by those peskie Wirbles and Osti's and Armor who just want to shoot my plane up, sense Tanks don't want to be targeted by planes then please keep them away from the airfields......... thank you..... that is all :salute
Please read the entire thread.
Guys, are you sure clouds will work?
1) Unless they are thick, you can see the GV icons down through through them, especially since you can change the color and size of the icons.
2) Even if you can mask GV icons, the IL-2s and B25Hs can fly around at low altitude.
I think we need a different/additional mechanism than/to clouds. The best one is making it very time-consuming for someone to get to TT in a bomber, meaning very high mountains and distant airbases.
I hope so, 25Hs and IL-2 will get crushed by fighters looking for easy kills over the middle of a TT. I just wanted to create a singular place where it was inherently difficult to bomb GVs without creating entirely new maps. If the map editor just placed a blob of clouds over TT, that might be enough to deter guys there.
DISCLAIMER: THIS THREAD IS ASKING FOR LOW CLOUDS ON A SINGLE PLACE ON THE MAP. NOT THE ENTIRE MAP. NOT ALL SPAWN POINTS. NOT ALL VBASES. JUST TT.
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GV Dueling arena! just like the fighter arena, but no lake and lots of obstacles. :aok :banana:
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I very strongly suggest that we use a geometry guaranteeing that a base will flash. That will bring in the players. Lack of players is the current problem with Trinity TT, as you can't tell if someone is in there. In the worst case, even if someone merely "sits on the base", it generates an interesting fight. However, in Ozkansas, once people are in there, they typically go offensive and leave the bases, which is the ideal we are striving for.
One way to do this, Greebo, is perhaps to put 3 Vbases in the center, identically spaced to what we have in Ozkansas TT. (In other words, leave out the center town). The first player in will be able to generate attention by starting to capture one of these Vbases, which will cause them to flash. Radiating out from this Vbase there should be a series of additional Vbases from each country, spaced as in the Ozkansas TT. Leave out the Air bases, ring with mountains, and make the whole thing relatively distant from any air bases outside the mountains. The Ozkansas layout gives plenty of "room to fight", and is quite interesting to play in. I don't think it loses anything by leaving out the center town. It's main problem is that it's too easy to fly AC to.
With more obstacles. :aok
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I did some offline testing on Ozkansas and CraterMA. It takes 4.5 minutes to get an Il-2 with NS-37s to the centre of TT from the nearest airbase on Ozkansas and 15 minutes on CraterMA. A heavy jabo would probably do it a bit quicker in both cases. I think the time delay per sortie would put a lot of people off, particularly those intent on amassing points. Those who are doing it just to annoy other players would still do so, but maybe less often. Also darbars would often make it fairly obvious that there was someone climbing over the crater rim. It takes 10 minutes or so to get over the rim heavily laden. I can see "anti-griefer" sorties being flown in fast climbing interceptors to combat this.
I've had a look at the Ozkansas TT layout and laid it out in the upper diagram below. The dotted circles represent the enemy player flash radius of 3 miles from the centre of the base. The base numbers are not accurate and are simply for reference.
The advantages of this layout are that as TDeacon pointed out, anyone spawning will almost immediately make one of the other bases flash (the nearer of the two bases if you are in range of both). The other advantage is it makes spawn camping difficult. A camper would have to knock out all the base defences and camp the hangar. He'd be vulnerable to attack from adjacent bases and eventually from base guns respawning. The main drawback is that a GV horde could take the whole of tank town fairly quickly.
My suggestion in the lower diagram is to have the same inner layout but make the outer fields harder to take. The outer fields each have three spawn points for the field inboard of them. These spawn points are within both the outer and the inner fields' warning radius. The effect of this is to make it harder to take a field outboard of yours than inboard of yours.
Imagine you were trying to take V4 from V1. You have to travel about 5 miles if you go through the spawn area or more to go around it. Once past the spawns you have to worry about enemies spawning behind you as well as ahead. If you camp one of the spawns the enemy can spawn at one of the other two. If you and two friends camp all three that's three more GVs needed for a field capture than before. Also the enemy will be warned you may be camping because their base will be flashing.
Taking V1 from V4 is much easier. You have just under 3 miles to go and will be warned if anyone is camping the spawns. Even a triple camp can be broken from the V base fairly easily.
Also I'd probably make the trend of the land slope down into the middle of tank town to give the outboard fields another advantage.
(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots3/Ozkansastanktownlayout.jpg)
(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots3/CraterMAnewtanktownlayout.jpg)
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Greebo:
That looks promising.
However, since it is still possible that an off-hours horde could capture all of them, let's be sure that the "outer" bases can be reached easily by spawning from a home country base outside of TT. That way, if someone captures the entire TT (as the Rooks did to Ozkansas), then a single player can spawn from outside to within 3 miles of the "outer" base; knock out the acks, then come back in an M3 before the acks respawn. If someone chooses to defend in this case, then that's ok, as you still have GV combat. The problem with the all-Rook Ozkansas was that once they screwed things up by capturing the entire island, it required a major non-GV effort by the other countries to get back on the island.
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dirtdart; it is not good design practice to rely on "...hope..." and "...that might...". :)
I hope so, 25Hs and IL-2 will get crushed by fighters looking for easy kills over the middle of a TT. I just wanted to create a singular place where it was inherently difficult to bomb GVs without creating entirely new maps. If the map editor just placed a blob of clouds over TT, that might be enough to deter guys there.
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That's the intention TDeacon, in fact I'll probably put the SP into the crater well above the outer field on the lower slopes of the crater wall.
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would it be easier to just have a GV only arena,(experimental) and see if it becomes popular or how it affects MA gameplay or if it would have the same numbers as the ww1 arena with very few people playing in there, i understand what some people want but it just sounds silly to be in the MA GV'n and not want any aircraft to bother you, its like playing in a bubble and everyone can see you but cant get in, lower cloud level ? that might work but would'nt stop people who know how to bomb, when a spawn is camped i'm going to do my best to free that spawn up so our country can use it,weither its in TT or not, why let some spawncamper just sit there racking up kills , is that a GV battle?
GV's have no problems with rolling onto an AF's and blasting planes away, hiding in the hangers waiting for planes to spawn in, whats the difference? how can we stop this? see.... it works both ways some GV's don't want to be bombed in TT and some Aircraft don't want to be killed while lifting off at AF's ....only solution GV only arena, just like when aircraft want to fight just aircraft they go to the DA ( i know bad example) to fight.. tankers can to, that's always a option
now what i posted is not directed at anyone and hope no one takes offense
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Why not have the TT at 30,000 feet?
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I see your point Zoom, but seperate arenas never work. Everyone goes to the arena where everyone is. There's still plenty of spawn points to the airfields and vehicle fields outside the crater on my map so anti-tank aircraft will still have a role. I'm not stopping aircraft reaching TT either, just making it more difficult. I've also got a few airfields with no GV spawn points into them, to give some sort of role to the C-47 again.
I've gone out of my way to make life difficult for spawn campers in this TT design too.
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I see your point Zoom, but seperate arenas never work. Everyone goes to the arena where everyone is. There's still plenty of spawn points to the airfields and vehicle fields outside the crater on my map so anti-tank aircraft will still have a role. I'm not stopping aircraft reaching TT either, just making it more difficult. I've also got a few airfields with no GV spawn points into them, to give some sort of role to the C-47 again.
I've gone out of my way to make life difficult for spawn campers in this TT design too.
thank you for understanding what i was trying to say :salute
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would it be easier to just have a GV only arena
They'll still whine. It's what the GV clowns do best; besides spawn camping, I mean. :devil
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I very strongly suggest that we use a geometry guaranteeing that a base will flash. That will bring in the players. Lack of players is the current problem with Trinity TT, as you can't tell if someone is in there. In the worst case, even if someone merely "sits on the base", it generates an interesting fight. However, in Ozkansas, once people are in there, they typically go offensive and leave the bases, which is the ideal we are striving for.
One way to do this, Greebo, is perhaps to put 3 Vbases in the center, identically spaced to what we have in Ozkansas TT. (In other words, leave out the center town). The first player in will be able to generate attention by starting to capture one of these Vbases, which will cause them to flash. Radiating out from this Vbase there should be a series of additional Vbases from each country, spaced as in the Ozkansas TT. Leave out the Air bases, ring with mountains, and make the whole thing relatively distant from any air bases outside the mountains. The Ozkansas layout gives plenty of "room to fight", and is quite interesting to play in. I don't think it loses anything by leaving out the center town. It's main problem is that it's too easy to fly AC to.
Myself and 4-5 other Rooks spent 3+ hours attacking V186 (during which time it never stopped flashing) the other night in Trinity...3-4 guys were steadily defending (REALLY need better odds than than to take a Vbase sans airplanes) but during all that time, we only got maybe 1 guy from Rooks to poke his nose in there, and he quickly left for some other place. I'm not sure what more a GV'er needs than what is available at Trinity TT
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Myself and 4-5 other Rooks spent 3+ hours attacking V186 (during which time it never stopped flashing) the other night in Trinity...3-4 guys were steadily defending (REALLY need better odds than than to take a Vbase sans airplanes) but during all that time, we only got maybe 1 guy from Rooks to poke his nose in there, and he quickly left for some other place. I'm not sure what more a GV'er needs than what is available at Trinity TT
I would be happy with those numbers. I spent about an hour attacking as a Knight the other accessable Bishop Trinity TT base, and it was usually just me against 2 or 3 defenders. I suppose I could have switched to Bishops and joined your battle.
Even so, an idiot fellow Knight named "Handsolo" showed up in a B25-H, and killed off one of the TT battles we were having at V27). It's kind of ironic the contempt that players like "Oddball-CAF" pretend to have for GV spawn camping, since their bombing of GVs is equally one-sided. Doesn't take much skill, does it Oddball-CAF? :devil
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I think the one thing that HTC could do to improve the tank game is to remove icons from enemy tanks.. Make the bomb****s actually have to bomb the tank and not that bright red icon they are looking for..
Tanks usually look for cover in the trees. This is not possible with a bright red icon saying look here I am come bomb me.. Tanks can still be seen without the enemy icon. They just have to look harder for them...
Keep the icon on friendly tanks. Just remove it from the enemy tanks.. Make it the same as what a tank on the ground sees..
I think this would also improve the easy base capture problem everyone is complaining about.. :salute
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In real life tanks were hard to spot from the air if they stayed still and didn't fire. What if each tank's icon range changed depending on what it was doing? So if you are stationary and not firing you would have a short icon range. Every time you fire the main gun, the range would increase for a second or two and when you are moving the range would also increase.
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I think the one thing that HTC could do to improve the tank game is to remove icons from enemy tanks.. Make the bombers actually have to bomb the tank and not that bright red icon they are looking for..
Tanks usually look for cover in the trees. This is not possible with a bright red icon saying look here I am come bomb me.. Tanks can still be seen without the enemy icon. They just have to look harder for them...
Keep the icon on friendly tanks. Just remove it from the enemy tanks.. Make it the same as what a tank on the ground sees..
I think this would also improve the easy base capture problem everyone is complaining about.. :salute
I think the enemy GV icon can not be seeing until you are 1.5k and closing.
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In real life tanks were hard to spot from the air if they stayed still and didn't fire. What if each tank's icon range changed depending on what it was doing? So if you are stationary and not firing you would have a short icon range. Every time you fire the main gun, the range would increase for a second or two and when you are moving the range would also increase.
:aok +1
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I think the enemy GV icon can not be seeing until you are 1.5k and closing.
I think you are correct Oak. It would be nice to make it just a little harder for you to spot those tanks .. :salute
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If we removed icons from stationary GVs, it might be kind of hard to defend air bases from them. Someone could hide a troop-carrying M3 in a clump of trees near a base, and it would be indetectable.
Just to be clear, I am ***strongly*** in favor of preserving TT for GV-only combat, but I do not want to screw up the rest of the MA. GVs are fun, but it is primarily an AC game (except in TT).
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I don't play much anymore due to real life, but I remember most of the fun I had in GV's was working with team mates to fend off the air attack as well as the ground attack. A few weeks ago I managed to get some play time in and an old friend in the game talked me into bombing GV's at TT. I managed to kill a GV or two, and died a couple of times also. But, WOW, what a blast!! I had such a good time that I can't believe you would deprive some one of that aspect of the game. After all------ IT IS A GAME!
Lambo
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Hey deacon, I agree that hope is not going to be there, there will always be a guy who wants to kill GVs and will end up going to where the GVs are. The is indisputable. The issue becomes, how to provide places in the MA where folks can GV with a greater probability of survival without creating new maps. If the cloud layer were low in some of these isolated places, the vehicle icons would not be visible from the air. For IL-2s and 25Hs to have shots, they would be low angle at best, and competing with the trees.
I do agree that future maps should take into account a small reserved space of limited strategic value in the interest of providing a place where guys can do some GVing. Someone said earlier about putting TT at 30K. Well, if HTC realism is a good as I think it is, what HP would tanks make at that alt? How much farther could a Tiger fire? So, I am sort of against that notion, if it was serious.
<S>
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lambo31:
Nobody is being deprived of anything. If you would read the thread (...), you would see that we are primarily concerned about Tank Town (which is a localized area on some maps intended for GV-to-GV combat. The maining 95% of the map area would support the normal game play.
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Dirtdart,
The 30k TT idea, although presented tongue-in-cheek, is actually a good one. With respect to "realism" consequences of 30k tank combat, I doubt that the GV game would be affected, unless HTC models the differing gravitational and atmospheric pressure aspects of 30k combat.
BTW, your cloud idea sounded good to me initially. However, after further thought, I became concerned that the only way it would work would be to make the clouds very low, and doing that would eliminate the vertical aspect of the GV game (i.e. climbing hills & mountains to improve line of sight). Eliminating the vertical element greatly reduces the interest level for me; kind of like an air combat game where all maneuvers must be made in the horizontal. Without the vertical element, the GV game is basically reduced to driving through clumps of trees waiting to be ambushed. Finally, as I mentioned above, AC can do plenty of damage to GVs while attacking horizontally, although they make themselves a bit more vulnerable by doing so.
But one good aspect of your thread is that it motivated Greebo to modify his TT, and I guess the cloud idea can be given a test drive in that map as well. So we shall see.
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lambo31:
Nobody is being deprived of anything. If you would read the thread (...), you would see that we are primarily concerned about Tank Town (which is a localized area on some maps intended for GV-to-GV combat. The maining 95% of the map area would support the normal types of game play.
I understood from the beginning. My post still stands.
Lambo
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I understood from the beginning. My post still stands.
Lambo
With respect to your stating that you had a "good time" bombing GVs in TT, that may be so, but I doubt the GV guys thought so. You could have bombed GVs anywhere else on the map, where the "win-the-war" activities were going on, but instead you chose TT. Look at it this way; someone who cheats in a poker game probably has a good time, right?
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yes I could have went any place on the map. But, when you go fishing yo go where you know the fish are :).
You guys should take note that the easiest way to keep the kids from fussing over a toy is to get rid of the toy.
Lambo
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Gving is all about spawn camping.
There is no ambush. There is no maneuvering.
Someone bombs to break the camp, or kills the vh's to break the camp.
Get over the :cry.
wrongway
[/quote
I like :). On top of that I have tried to find where a gv
during the war was able to shot dn a aircraft obviously talking
about pnzrs etc.
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Lambo31,
Well your overall presentation seems to boil down to a statement that GVers in TT should sacrifice their interests to yours. To sweeten the deal, you make it clear that you could care less about others' desired styles of play. Hey, convincing argument...
Anyway, it's good that you posted this, since it makes clear to the parties concerned that coercive measures are necessary.
yes I could have went any place on the map. But, when you go fishing yo go where you know the fish are :).
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I know responding to this sort of mindless post is a waste of time, due to the motivations of the poster. However, I am feeling argumentative today.
So, I will point out that AWwrgwy's statement is not always true; for example look at Ozkansas TT island, which has no spawn points. In any case, the gist of these conversations is discussion of TTs (tank towns), where any GV spawn camping should be broken up with GVs. You can do whatever you want on the remaining 95% of the map.
Gving is all about spawn camping.
There is no ambush. There is no maneuvering.
Someone bombs to break the camp, or kills the vh's to break the camp.
Get over the :cry.
wrongway
[/quote
I like :). On top of that I have tried to find where a gv
during the war was able to shot dn a aircraft obviously talking
about pnzrs etc.
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You can say the same about a lot of aspects of the game. The guys that like to fly to HQ dump their load and bail for the next trip hate being shot down by fighters, it ruins their fun. As a fight dweeb I hate getting HOed by every ding dong looking for a quick kill, it ruins my fun of having a good fight.
I think it was Hitech that said at one of the cons "the only thing people want to do in the game is to piss the other guy off" well it's working pretty well in TT.
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In any case, the gist of these conversations is discussion of TTs (tank towns), where any GV spawn camping should be broken up with GVs. You can do whatever you want on the remaining 95% of the map.
i would really like to know how GV's are going to break up there camped spawn? are you going to get enough people to "spawn" in at the same time and hopefully one will get started and be able to move before the campers incoming rounds kill you?, maybe if it's just one person camping the spawn, but i always see multiple people all scattered around the spawn point waiting for people to spawn in or do you spawn in from the next closest spawn, most likely will be from a AF or VB which will be a long drive, and very few are going to take that much time to drive there on a chance they will kill the multiple Campers, up a jabo and problems solved and now the GV's can spawn in, your country GV's thanks you for it, the other country cries about it , it's just part of the game.
when you hear them coming or your spotted get the GV moving, Ive dodged lots of eggs and incoming cannon rounds, weave in and out of the trees use whatever cover or obstacles you have around you, (bridges,buildings,ect) your survival chances are way greater than just sitting there
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I would be happy with those numbers. I spent about an hour attacking as a Knight the other accessable Bishop Trinity TT base, and it was usually just me against 2 or 3 defenders. I suppose I could have switched to Bishops and joined your battle.
Even so, an idiot fellow Knight named "Handsolo" showed up in a B25-H, and killed off one of the TT battles we were having at V27). It's kind of ironic the contempt that players like "Oddball-CAF" pretend to have for GV spawn camping, since their bombing of GVs is equally one-sided. Doesn't take much skill, does it Oddball-CAF? :devil
So one, single B-25 ruinied a gv battle? Really? :cry
wrongway
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You can say the same about a lot of aspects of the game. The guys that like to fly to HQ dump their load and bail for the next trip hate being shot down by fighters, it ruins their fun. As a fight dweeb I hate getting HOed by every ding dong looking for a quick kill, it ruins my fun of having a good fight.
I think it was Hitech that said at one of the cons "the only thing people want to do in the game is to piss the other guy off" well it's working pretty well in TT.
Well said Fugitive. +1
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No changes needed. After all I need a way to kill the tiger that just killed me before landing my 9 kills. :x :old: :neener:
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No changes needed. After all I need a way to kill the tiger that just killed me before landing my 9 kills. :x :old: :neener:
:lol
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So one, single B-25 ruinied a gv battle? Really? :cry
wrongway
It was a 2-person battle. Plane kills off opponent and then hovers over spawn point; what do you think opponent will do? (...) Your post is not constructive; why do you bother??
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i would really like to know how GV's are going to break up there camped spawn? are you going to get enough people to "spawn" in at the same time and hopefully one will get started and be able to move before the campers incoming rounds kill you?, maybe if it's just one person camping the spawn, but i always see multiple people all scattered around the spawn point waiting for people to spawn in or do you spawn in from the next closest spawn, most likely will be from a AF or VB which will be a long drive, and very few are going to take that much time to drive there on a chance they will kill the multiple Campers, up a jabo and problems solved and now the GV's can spawn in, your country GV's thanks you for it, the other country cries about it , it's just part of the game.
when you hear them coming or your spotted get the GV moving, Ive dodged lots of eggs and incoming cannon rounds, weave in and out of the trees use whatever cover or obstacles you have around you, (bridges,buildings,ect) your survival chances are way greater than just sitting there
We are talking only about TT here. (Again, read the thread before you post). That kind of spawn camping doesn't generally happen in TTs, or at least not in my experience. For example, the TT on Ozkansas doesn't even have spawn points (...). The Trinity TT has multiple spawn points per side, with multiple spawn positions for each point, so spawn camping doesn't work well. Now on the remaining 95% of the map, you have a point, and use of AC to break up spawn camping may be justified.
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Lambo31,
Well your overall presentation seems to boil down to a statement that GVers in TT should sacrifice their interests to yours. To sweeten the deal, you make it clear that you could care less about others' desired styles of play. Hey, convincing argument...
Anyway, it's good that you posted this, since it makes clear to the parties concerned that coercive measures are necessary.
I know responding to this sort of mindless post is a waste of time, due to the motivations of the poster.
:aok
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There must be either:
1. A lack of general literacy.
2. A lack of general respect for other players.
3. Oh wait, it is indeed the BBs.
I really am having a hard time why people persist in posting that this will have consequences across the entire map. I simple, low layer of clouds.
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unles sthe clouds are on the deck and thick enough to stop any reconnaissance, My Hog D will still kill accurately. :airplane:
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unles sthe clouds are on the deck and thick enough to stop any reconnaissance, My Hog D will still kill accurately. :airplane:
the only time I have seen fog like that was on the pizza map a few months back. There was a layer of clouds over that was a thousand feet thick if they were and inch. Made flying/fighting pretty interesting. The main thing was my FPS went through the ceiling just processing white, but then when I emerged from the clouds, the dropped to next to nothing.
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or just put v bases on top of like 40k mnts. Prob solved
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or just put v bases on top of like 40k mnts. Prob solved
I agree; but someone would have to make the map.
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Greebo,
In case you are still following this thread, I have a question for you. Is it possible for a map maker to put a small airbase in TT configured to support only Spit 16 and no ordinance. The point would be that if bombers do get in, all you have to do is up a local Spit 16 and shoot them down. Nothing else could operate from the air base.
Possible?
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Greebo,
In case you are still following this thread, I have a question for you. Is it possible for a map maker to put a small airbase in TT configured to support only Spit 16 and no ordinance. The point would be that if bombers do get in, all you have to do is up a local Spit 16 and shoot them down. Nothing else could operate from the air base.
Possible?
What if I don't wanna fly a spit 16?
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Bombing TT and double spawns will always happen unfortunately. Even with the cloud layer or 40k base some newb will find a way. Not to mention some of the biggest bomb tards are also some of the biggest campers. You break there camp with a tank they bomb you and camp again. Those are the guys that don't care about the fight. They pay there 15 a month to get easy kills and then get there names in lights like it was a challenge to accomplish what they did.
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Bombing TT and double spawns will always happen unfortunately. Even with the cloud layer or 40k base some newb will find a way. Not to mention some of the biggest bomb tards are also some of the biggest campers. You break there camp with a tank they bomb you and camp again. Those are the guys that don't care about the fight. They pay there 15 a month to get easy kills and then get there names in lights like it was a challenge to accomplish what they did.
Where's that American (you're from Georgia?) can-do spirit? Seriously, and in any case, I don't think spawn camping is an issue with TT (and TT is all this thread is about). It's just the AC in TT which are an issue, as they're currently just too capable relative to GVs.
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It is quite easy for a terrain designer to restrict a field to certain plane types, the 163 is restricted to one field per side on all MA terrains for instance. However this is very unlikely to be permitted by HTC for an MA terrain. I know of no way of making ordnance permanently unavailable at a field short of building a custom airfield, which is not allowed for an MA terrain. They would not want airfields in my tank town crater as you'd have to have three to be fair and this would inevitably become a "fighter town", something they also have banned from MA terrain design. I was originally going to have three airfields in there until this edict was passed down.
A good rule of thumb in MA terrain design is; if it's possible and hasn't been done yet, it's not allowed.
BTW, to all those proposing 40k fields. The maximum terrain elevation you can have in any AH terrain is 32,767 feet. That's as high as the terrain editor will go. I can't see 32K fields being allowed for an MA terrain either.
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or just put v bases on top of like 40k mnts. Prob solved
A tiger at that alt would not have the HP to move itself.... I dont think....
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Dirtdart, what's with those negative waves?
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It's called Oxygen, or lack of it. If you cain't breath up there, neither can yer Tank. :old:
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With respect to performance under different atmospheric conditions, I doubt that AH models chemical reactions... With aircraft, there is probably some sort of table containing numerical power ratings for different altitudes. With GVs, they wouldn't even need to do that, although they may anyway just to allow for common code.
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With respect to performance under different atmospheric conditions, I doubt that AH models chemical reactions... With aircraft, there is probably some sort of table containing numerical power ratings for different altitudes. With GVs, they wouldn't even need to do that, although they may anyway just to allow for common code.
Deacon, not being negative. Just making some assumptions. Mainly, GVs are effected by altitude in all respects (range, HP).
I was in TT this AM trying to pick a fight, albeit unsuccessfully. The only other thing I can think of aside from clouds is making on of the three central bases on all TTs uncapturable.
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With respect to performance under different atmospheric conditions, I doubt that AH models chemical reactions... With aircraft, there is probably some sort of table containing numerical power ratings for different altitudes. With GVs, they wouldn't even need to do that, although they may anyway just to allow for common code.
GVs are not influenced by altitude. Until the arena split four years ago, we had a 10k Tank Town on one of the maps. GV's did drive & climb hills just as on sea level. You can also load the TA map to check it, we do have 20k bases there.
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Interesting lusche. I figured they were effected to keep the airplane guys from whining.
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Interesting lusche. I figured they were effected to keep the airplane guys from whining.
well now your going to hear it lol, if the planes are modeled to perform according to there Alt, same should be for Vehicles, you can't take any normal vehicle from sea level to 15,000ft and expect it to perform the same, that goes against all atmospheric theories from a mechanics viewpoint, anyone with any kind of mechanical abilities would know this, i rejet my snowmobiles depending on where im going and how high the average Alt will be for that area, too lean and you'll burn it down, to rich you foul plugs
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Helpful. You have never complained when bombed, eh....
You know I think I am going to start a thread called the most worthless responses to a thread ever. Or, better yet, the guys who know everything. Perhaps, Sarcasm...the lowest form of wit.
I seem to think that:
1. The airfields or at least one V-base on tank island should be uncapturable. It sucks when guys get on at 2AM and sweep the island.
2. There should be a part of the map of low strategic interest (like tank island) where people who want to GV should be able to fight without padding the scores of some self aggrandizing clown who wants to up their attack rating.
--Crusader
Ohh I don;t know. Probably one of the best responses to the don't kill my GV whines. You guys have no problem spoiling our fun by camping the runways do you? But drop a bomb from an attack aircraft and its the end of the world :rofl How about you get some flaks to protect your GVs?
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Ohh I don;t know. Probably one of the best responses to the don't kill my GV whines. You guys have no problem spoiling our fun by camping the runways do you? But drop a bomb from an attack aircraft and its the end of the world :rofl How about you get some flaks to protect your GVs?
Dedalos: You seem to be missing the central point of the thread, which is basically TT-centric. It's not the entire MA that we're concerned about here. Therefore it is theoretically possible to get some additional security from AC in TT (maybe 5% of the MA), but to leave the remaining 95% of the MA alone.
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Dedalos: You seem to be missing the central point of the thread, which is basically TT-centric. It's not the entire MA that we're concerned about here. Therefore it is theoretically possible to get some additional security from AC in TT (maybe 5% of the MA), but to leave the remaining 95% of the MA alone.
How do you know that? As far as you know HT created TT so we may have GVs to bomb. I am just going to throw the response we get from you guys. Don't like it? There are TT fields in the DA :aok
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There is no such thing as a Tank Town or Fighter Town in the MA's. :aok
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Bad attitude waystin2. If that's the case than htc needs to remove gv's and the capture system.....
That way they can go out of business just like the other nonConforming games that might make you shed a tear.
And if there isn't a TT, there dam well should be.
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Dedalos, and like-minded individuals:
Whether HTC in the past supported the concept of TT doesn't really matter. (I honestly don’t know). However it is clear that the existence of TT has been recognized by a significant portion of the community for many years. Exactly what you are allowed (socially) to do in there is what’s at issue here.
So moving forward, myself and some others are trying to get more protection for GVs in TT (only). This particular thread started out with proposing a clouds solution, and the discussion broadened a bit to include vehicle base spacing solutions, etc. Anything proposed by me would apply only to a limited area (such as TT or a separate GV arena), so that current anything-goes gameplay (which you appear to favor, and which even I favor when in certain moods) can continue on remaining 95% of the map.
So given this TT-limited scope of the discussion, it is difficult to understand why anyone would object, unless:
(a) they prefer the easy-mode, skill-less dweeb gameplay which attacking GVs with AC in TT currently is (and are unable to succeed in any other way) or
(b) they are just trying to annoy other players, in compensation for the frustrations experienced in their offline lives, or
(c) they misunderstand the TT-only scope of this thread, due to its (the thread’s) imperfect and wandering focus
Dedalos, in my previous comment, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, and assuming that (c) above applied to you. So once you realized that we are only speaking about TT gameplay, you could presumably see that your concerns are baseless.
Dedalos: You seem to be missing the central point of the thread, which is basically TT-centric. It's not the entire MA that we're concerned about here. Therefore it is theoretically possible to get some additional security from AC in TT (maybe 5% of the MA), but to leave the remaining 95% of the MA alone.
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There is no such thing as a Tank Town or Fighter Town in the MA's. :aok
It has nothing to do with "attitude". The point I think Waystin is trying to make here is this is the stand that HTC has taken in the past, there is no TT, there is no FT, there is just one big sandbox and so there are no special rules for any area of the map.
So no matter how much it pisses you off, bombing of GVs will be allowed and things will not be set up to hinder that other than general game mechanics such as taking out ordinance at near-by bases. The same holds true for FT's. If some Ahole wishes to fly in and take out the fighter hangers he can.
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It has nothing to do with "attitude". The point I think Waystin is trying to make here is this is the stand that HTC has taken in the past, there is no TT, there is no FT, there is just one big sandbox and so there are no special rules for any area of the map.
So no matter how much it pisses you off, bombing of GVs will be allowed and things will not be set up to hinder that other than general game mechanics such as taking out ordinance at near-by bases. The same holds true for FT's. If some Ahole wishes to fly in and take out the fighter hangers he can.
Even if you are correct about HTCs attitude in the past, this doesn't preclude future adjustments to MA terrains, such as those proposed by Greebo. Also, HTC is capable of changing its mind, if it thinks that such a change will improve their business. Let's see where this goes.
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It has nothing to do with "attitude". The point I think Waystin is trying to make here is this is the stand that HTC has taken in the past, there is no TT, there is no FT, there is just one big sandbox and so there are no special rules for any area of the map.
So no matter how much it pisses you off, bombing of GVs will be allowed and things will not be set up to hinder that other than general game mechanics such as taking out ordinance at near-by bases. The same holds true for FT's. If some Ahole wishes to fly in and take out the fighter hangers he can.
OMIGAWD thank you Fugitive. Llogan went off the hook. I love my GV'ing as much or more as any other player. My point is that there is no official tank or fighter town that exists in the main arenas. This is fact. Not being a smartazz here, just stating the truth as I know it.
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Waystin that is true. It would be nice to have a spot where tanks slug it out. That ain't gonna happen so I merely proposed making a spot where the degree of difficulty might not make the juice worth the squeeze. :salute
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Helpful. You have never complained when bombed, eh....
You know I think I am going to start a thread called the most worthless responses to a thread ever. Or, better yet, the guys who know everything. Perhaps, Sarcasm...the lowest form of wit.
I seem to think that:
1. The airfields or at least one V-base on tank island should be uncapturable. It sucks when guys get on at 2AM and sweep the island.
2. There should be a part of the map of low strategic interest (like tank island) where people who want to GV should be able to fight without padding the scores of some self aggrandizing clown who wants to up their attack rating.
--Crusader
ROFLOL DirtDart... he's yanking your chain, pulling on your leg! I'd much rather have my leg pulled and my ankle humped. :D I just can't believe a Vet like you bit that stink-bait that Oddball-CAF threw out. I almost spewed beer on my keyboard.
All the Best...
Jay
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Sounds like what you guys really need is a separate arena for tank battles. That way, you can have your tank-to-tank battles if you want, and that doesn't take tanks out of the full-scale war going on in the main arena.
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they really do have an area if they really wanted to use it they can, organize your people and go there, but, but, it's not the MA, no one will see me land all my camped kills :neener:
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Sounds like what you guys really need is a separate arena for tank battles. That way, you can have your tank-to-tank battles if you want, and that doesn't take tanks out of the full-scale war going on in the main arena.
Another arena won't cut it. It would be like the WW1, 6 dudes, no real action. It would be nice to not get locked out of an arena, or not have to go through the trouble of swapping arenas is all.
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Another arena won't cut it. It would be like the WW1, 6 dudes, no real action. It would be nice to not get locked out of an arena, or not have to go through the trouble of swapping arenas is all.
Yep you are right if that special tank area got the same attention as WWI, without some effort EVERY arena will die, WWI died fast due to lack of effort to improve and expand it and the GVing arena would go the same route. As for a 1k cloud layer wouldn't that be tandamount to ZERO bombing since it takes a certain amount of distance for the bomb to arm (1k I thought)
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Yep you are right if that special tank area got the same attention as WWI, without some effort EVERY arena will die, WWI died fast due to lack of effort to improve and expand it and the GVing arena would go the same route. As for a 1k cloud layer wouldn't that be tandamount to ZERO bombing since it takes a certain amount of distance for the bomb to arm (1k I thought)
It is 1000 feet total. So, it you are at 500 say, going XXX MPH your bomb will travel over 1000 feet before it hits the ground.
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Dedalos, and like-minded individuals:
Whether HTC in the past supported the concept of TT doesn't really matter. (I honestly don’t know). However it is clear that the existence of TT has been recognized by a significant portion of the community for many years. Exactly what you are allowed (socially) to do in there is what’s at issue here.
So moving forward, myself and some others are trying to get more protection for GVs in TT (only). This particular thread started out with proposing a clouds solution, and the discussion broadened a bit to include vehicle base spacing solutions, etc. Anything proposed by me would apply only to a limited area (such as TT or a separate GV arena), so that current anything-goes gameplay (which you appear to favor, and which even I favor when in certain moods) can continue on remaining 95% of the map.
So given this TT-limited scope of the discussion, it is difficult to understand why anyone would object, unless:
(a) they prefer the easy-mode, skill-less dweeb gameplay which attacking GVs with AC in TT currently is (and are unable to succeed in any other way) or
(b) they are just trying to annoy other players, in compensation for the frustrations experienced in their offline lives, or
(c) they misunderstand the TT-only scope of this thread, due to its (the thread’s) imperfect and wandering focus
Dedalos, in my previous comment, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, and assuming that (c) above applied to you. So once you realized that we are only speaking about TT gameplay, you could presumably see that your concerns are baseless.
Socially allowed eh? Remember that thing called the doughnut map? Big lake in the middle created for furballing? Remember what was socially allowed there? What happened with that? Pretty match every map that promoted furballing is gone, but god forbid anyone drops a bomb on a GV :lol
It actually makes the game better. You can have a mix of tanks, flaks, attack planes and fighters in the same place. Whats better than that?
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I've updated my MA terrain with the new Ozkansas-style tanktown layout described earlier in this thread. If you want to try it, my terrain can be downloaded from here: CraterMA.zip (http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots3/CraterMA.zip). Just unzip the files into your ahiiterr folder. Any constructive criticism is welcome.
This tanktown does not exclude planes, it just makes it a bit harder to get there. You have about a 12K climb to get over the mountains from the nearest airbase. I don't think HTC would allow an MA terrain that excluded planes from an area completely.
There are permanent low altitude clouds over all the tanktown bases. These should make closing a base by level bombing just about impossible. Dive bombing the V bases is possible but is made a fair bit harder by having to make your approach at a shallower angle. Framerate under the clouds in TT is fine on my PC (stays at 60fps), but I'd be interested to hear if anyone with a low spec PC has problems. There's only four instead of six clouds over each base now but there are a lot more bases. Note the TT clouds take about 12 mins to generate fully after the terrain is started. The three central V bases (V103, 104 and 105) currently have aircraft enabled for offline testing purposes.
I've also spent some time making the terrain look better for players who have to run in low detail graphics mode and used the weather editor to add an erupting volcano NE of A82 (goes off the first time about 13 minutes after the arena starts).
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i swear the more i read this it just makes me want to bomb GV's that much more, i think everyone knows what this thread is about, it's TT... yes we know, where tanks can go fight each other in "epic" battles of clever camping skills or drive off base shut down and wait for someone to get into gun range while your in sniper mode, why not get a bunch of guys together and try the Tank area in the DA arena? or try it in AvA arena with no icons? I'm not trying to be disrespectful but there are other avenues to try if you guys really want to, heck give it a try i might even come tank to, work with one of the Special Event guys get some weekly Tank battles going in the SE arena's, as long as there are tanks and planes in the same Arena someone and i do mean someone will try to bomb GV's .... Murphy's law
this game is just not yet setup for large ground battles,( no towable AT guns, infantry) they seem to be working in that direction now with the addition of the new town and city layouts, the best game for ground warfare is WWII Online they have the ground game down pat, but there flight model is trash/rubberband like and very few planes, if one could combine Hitech's Air game and WWII's Ground game, that would be a intense game, heck they both hail from Texas they need to talk lol
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i swear the more i read this it just makes me want to bomb GV's that much more, i think everyone knows what this thread is about, it's TT... yes we know, where tanks can go fight each other in "epic" battles of clever camping skills or drive off base shut down and wait for someone to get into gun range while your in sniper mode, why not get a bunch of guys together and try the Tank area in the DA arena? or try it in AvA arena with no icons? I'm not trying to be disrespectful but there are other avenues to try if you guys really want to, heck give it a try i might even come tank to, work with one of the Special Event guys get some weekly Tank battles going in the SE arena's, as long as there are tanks and planes in the same Arena someone and i do mean someone will try to bomb GV's .... Murphy's law
this game is just not yet setup for large ground battles,( no towable AT guns, infantry) they seem to be working in that direction now with the addition of the new town and city layouts, the best game for ground warfare is WWII Online they have the ground game down pat, but there flight model is trash/rubberband like and very few planes, if one could combine Hitech's Air game and WWII's Ground game, that would be a intense game, heck they both hail from Texas they need to talk lol
I think you might be missing the point. The point is, even GVrs should have a spot to fight without a higher probability of not being bombed. Not the entire map, just a particular spot.
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I think you might be missing the point. The point is, even GVrs should have a spot to fight without a higher probability of not being bombed. Not the entire map, just a particular spot.
no i understand the point, what your failing to see is that everyone has already said the only way to keep planes away from TT is make TT seperate Arena not Area, because Tanks and Planes in same arena will lead to people bombing GV's at TT which has been pointed out many times,it won't change and people won't change, Geebo knows what he's talking about as far as designing the Maps to the Spec's that HiTech wants, we understand what you want and gave options for Tanking Events, but you just want it your way, forget any other options, well good luck :salute
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Aces High II Training Corps Website
http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/
Aces High Etiquette
by Hammer
“FIGHTER-TOWN” and “TANK-TOWN”: Another topic which gets people heated up. Some maps have a ring of either airfields or vehicle bases, one from each country, in the middle of the map surrounded by high mountains. These bases are referred to as either Fighter-Town (airbases) or Tank-Town (vehicle bases). These bases, like all bases on the map, are capturable and can contribute to the overall count of bases needed to “win” the war. Having said that, it is important to note these bases are not needed to win the war. The debate arises from the question of whether or not it is alright to bomb and/or capture the bases in Fighter-Town or Tank-Town. We could devote pages to the discussion but the bottom line is leave fighter-town for fighters and tank-town for tanks. Don’t bomb / capture / pork / vultch in those locations. You will find your own countrymen helping the enemy kill you.
I actually took the time to read the Aces High Trainers Arena Etiquette Section. They probably need to re write that document bcause it clearly no longer applies to the MA's...
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Sky there are unfortunately a lot of things that should be re written because most of the etiquette I was brow beaten to learn largely does not apply anymore to the xboxers.
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Dirt you know I respect you and all but for the love of all that is good and holy I've been practically BEGGING you GV guys to organize and come to the AVA for at least a roll at it. Id be willing to bet good money that if you and a group of guys decided to set up a day or two a week you'd be left to your own devices on the ground. Talk to the staff over there and see what you can come up with then come have your epic battles. I'll even cheerfully run supplies for a side or see if I can up a tank without getting slaughtered over and over and over.
If you can put something together and I can be of any help it sounds like a win / win to me.
Three of us were in there last night doing the whole tank thing, laughing our rears off, and giving each other a hard time on one. I'll probably drive around in a tank early tonight and see what kind of havoc I can cause.
At least give it a shot and see what you can make out of it. There are lots of interesting terrains that are simply PERFECT for ground battles (trust me I know I've run a jeep over the majority of them).
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Dirt you know I respect you and all but for the love of all that is good and holy I've been practically BEGGING you GV guys to organize and come to the AVA for at least a roll at it. Id be willing to bet good money that if you and a group of guys decided to set up a day or two a week you'd be left to your own devices on the ground. Talk to the staff over there and see what you can come up with then come have your epic battles. I'll even cheerfully run supplies for a side or see if I can up a tank without getting slaughtered over and over and over.
If you can put something together and I can be of any help it sounds like a win / win to me.
Three of us were in there last night doing the whole tank thing, laughing our rears off, and giving each other a hard time on one. I'll probably drive around in a tank early tonight and see what kind of havoc I can cause.
At least give it a shot and see what you can make out of it. There are lots of interesting terrains that are simply PERFECT for ground battles (trust me I know I've run a jeep over the majority of them).
I think a couple years back they used to run something like that in the AvA every Tuesday? Not sure on the day, but I remember jumping on a plane and being asked to get in a GV cause that is what they did that day. So, I did and died a lot lol
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Don't forget that knives cut both ways. If we start with dedicated tank towns, how can there be an argument against dedicated fighter towns? Then, we see the "win the war" folks fussing that everyone is in this town and that town is just messing around and not doing the important stuff to win.
In other words, once you start subdividing, it's only going to make for conflict. It REDUCES the game, it doesn't add to it.
I know that because I've seen it. Back in the day there was a PHENOMENAL map called the "Donut". It had a massive fighter town (the inspiration for the one now in the DA), surrounded by very high mountains. A ring of water, then the rest of the map was a nicely designed string of vehicle bases separated from the air bases, making for vehicle base battles with less air interference. Plenty of airbases around the periphery with carrier battles along the edge.
Trouble was, the layout accidentally pitted each AH faction against the other. Everybody whined about everybody. And in the end, HT pulled the map.
So don't hold your breath, bud. If things went bad when a FIGHTER town was set up in for a primarily air-combat game, how do you think a GV town will do any good whatsoever?
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I think a couple years back they used to run something like that in the AvA every Tuesday? Not sure on the day, but I remember jumping on a plane and being asked to get in a GV cause that is what they did that day. So, I did and died a lot lol
ya I think that was just getting started up before my sabbatical. I also recall pulling plenty of your lead donations out of my posterior :D
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<snip>
And this (combined with the fact that the player base isn't used to a TT concept anymore) is why I personally would like to see a different approach. And once TT bases are being taken, it makes things even worse, no more "GV heaven" and a lot of bad blood between players (exactly what happened with FT bases on donut)
I had a different "CraterMA" setup designed once. The while map was basically the crater, with the crater rim being near the map edge. All airfields were inside the crater, but there was to be a string of Vbases beyond the 15K rim walls, in a circle all around the map. These bases were going to be arranged in pairs just like V135-V136 on Ozkansas
(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/2655/symbolic.jpg)
A few of these bases would have had connections to the land inside the crater, including one uncapturable Vbase near HQ, so that a country has always the option to take it back.
This setup would have a few advantages:
- The paired setup makes for some great battles. No side having the initial home turf advantage greatly encourages players to spawn in.
- It's not "sacred" - bases are still meant to be taken, which is for many players an incentive to start some action in the first place.
- There are plenty of them, so taking a few doesn't matter, and the setup is being so that one side can always fight it's way back
- The use of aircraft is not being made impossible, just being made somewhat difficult. But unlike a central crater terrain, it's beign made more & more difficult the more rim bases a country captures.
I may try to make a quick sketch later tonight...
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I remember the Pizza dealt with this by having the V bases in very narrow canyons - greatly limited the ability for indiscriminate air attacks, and made for some hair raising fighter work if you dropped in there...
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ya I think that was just getting started up before my sabbatical. I also recall pulling plenty of your lead donations out of my posterior :D
That was back when I could see you :neener:
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In other words, once you start subdividing, it's only going to make for conflict. It REDUCES the game, it doesn't add to it.
I completely agree Simaril. I prefer the one big sandbox for all approach.
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BEGGING you GV guys to organize and come to the AVA for at least a roll at it.
I enjoy the AvA, the limitation I have is my window of time to play (personally) does not coincide with scenarios or when there are large player populations. I am not a pure GV guy. I just enjoy GVing to unwind from some AC fighting. Drink a beer, use terrain, etc...
Don't forget that knives cut both ways. If we start with dedicated tank towns, how can there be an argument against dedicated fighter towns? Then, we see the "win the war" folks fussing that everyone is in this town and that town is just messing around and not doing the important stuff to win...So don't hold your breath, bud. If things went bad when a FIGHTER town was set up in for a primarily air-combat game, how do you think a GV town will do any good whatsoever?
Again, I am not asking for any change to a current map layout or a specific GV town. Just a physical barrier that will reduce the probability of a guy with bombs, bombing guys in GVs on main TT, on whichever map. My potential "cheap" solution is a mere layer of clouds, low enough to prevent bombers, but high enough to allow IL-2s and 25Hs if they want. It would not interrupt the fighter fights, if anything it would promote them because the WWs and Osti would not be able to see their mark.
Yesterday myself and another squaddie dropped the ords on the Bish and rook fields, yeah it too about 20 minutes to get there and back. During that 20 minutes, a huge fight evolved and I got into it a bit late when both sides established lines and positions. So yes, a couple of players can selflessly dropped the ords to promote GV fights. But, is someone going to do that every 45 minutes? Most of the time I jump in a tank it is for over an hour anyway.
Bottom line, clouds seemed like an easy fix. TT does not change. The fact that there are air bases does not change, and the center island is not where the strategic fight is based from so it does not alter the entire map. This is often illustrated when the (insert dweeb country here) take the whole island, and it pretty much gets left alone until the map reset.
I completely agree Simaril. I prefer the one big sandbox for all approach.
So do I. This is not a new map or strategic map alteration, just a low cost approach to reducing the dive boming of GVs in a very small portion of the maps, probably 25 mile diameter circle, only on the center island.
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This is not a new map or strategic map alteration, just a low cost approach to reducing the dive boming of GVs in a very small portion of the maps, probably 25 mile diameter circle, only on the center island.
You're not asking for much of a change, but I'm not sure you realize how divisive any accommodation to one faction can be.
In my experience, AH works best when ALL players of ALL types are drawn into the same areas, each by their own specific play style, so everyone can shoot at everyone without discrimination. When tankers draw in dive bombers, that draws in Osty gunners and killers of Jabos. That draws in fighter vs fighter guys, which gets the bombing people to try higher alt approaches -- and every layer is doing their own thing. Every Mongoose with its own Snake, a giant Rock/paper/scissors conflaguration.
So if your particular Rock is feeling covered by paper, wouldn't it make more sense to come up with a way to attract more scissors, instead of banning paper?
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So if your particular Rock is feeling covered by paper, wouldn't it make more sense to come up with a way to attract more scissors, instead of banning paper?
Making sense can get you screamed at around here. :aok
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You're not asking for much of a change, but I'm not sure you realize how divisive any accommodation to one faction can be.
I guess where our opinions diverge is on the accommodation piece. Most elements enjoy some environmental benefit that can afford them an advantage over other elements. In AC, you can usually climb higher than the other guy if you are patient. You can dive bomb out of the reach of a WW or Osti. A layer of clouds usually sits around 15-17k which can hinder bombing if they are thick enough. Ships can only get so close to the shore. Ships have devastating FLAK which is radar guided and can afford them some protection against AC. In a 3 dimensional fight, where you have aircraft and tanks, the tanks do not stand a chance against aircraft. There is nothing they can do to escape the effects of a one thousand pound bomb. A while back you could park on a knoll and sometimes not receive damage from a near miss, not really the case anymore. So you do have an imbalance. It is very frustrating (not a stinking whine you flamers out there) to have a great 10-15 GV fight going on and then have a lone A 20 come out, break the fight up. We all play this game for our own reasons. I feel there are many in the community who do enjoy GVing occasionally and would appreciate a singular spot on the map where they have a chance against bomb laden AC who require visibility and altitude to conduct an effective attack. :salute
Making sense can get you screamed at around here. :aok
Bah... metaphor.
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In all seriousness Dirt, I enjoy GV'ing more than most of the AH'ers out there. I get bombed, I'll up a fighter and kill them. Or I'll up a Wirbel and go to town. I think what most folks disagree with is the want to disconnect from the rest of the arena, when it's the dynamic of everything land, sea & air that makes the arenas the fun place to be. There are multitudes of options and layers of attacks/defenses to employ that will allow you success in your GV endeavours. Sometimes you get to do the tanking, sometimes you are protecting the tankers. Sometimes you are fighting the guys trying to get the guys protecting the tankers. And round and round she goes... That is where the fun comes in. Not being snarky with you Sir, just saying embrace the chaos of the arenas for the fun that they can be.
:salute
Way
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Everyone can say the same thing about each type of game play as well.
Bombers hate getting shot down, as long as the fighter is smart and patient the buff doesn't stand a chance (which is why they traveled in very large groups).
Dive bombers hate getting picked while they are heavy. If a fighter is smart he catches him while heavy, or at the top of his zoom if he doesn't lawndart. Wirbles and osty's setup so that dive bombers dive in a strait line so it is easier for them to shoot dive bombers.
And then we have the GVs, to avoid getting bombed made you should move around a bit....... Oh ya that spoils the spawmcamp.
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And then we have the GVs, to avoid getting bombed made you should move around a bit....... Oh ya that spoils the spawmcamp.
There are no spawn in TT except the hangers. Also HT made the spawn locations a bit more random.
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Dirt -
I know you're really bought into this.
But I don't think you're considering anything other than your own perspective, and it seems you're not thinking about the game as a whole. In the end, it doesn't matter though - Sorry, but this idea isn't going to go anywhere.
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And you have never spawncamped a hanger? Give me a break. Yes TT spawns are a bit more randomn but most strive to find a hiding spot that covers the spawn areas best. I can understnd why you would hate to have to move from there, but it also is the spot people are going to look to clear first. By tank or bomb it doesn't matter
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I have been playing here for a year now and I have never, ever been bombed in a GV. Thats because I have never upped a GV. The game is Aces High, not GV Warrior. As you can see I am less than sympathetic because of this. Frankly I just do not get the GV gamers who play a flying sim, and then complain about the guys in aircraft interacting with those on the ground.
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I have been playing here for a year now and I have never, ever been bombed in a GV. Thats because I have never upped a GV. The game is Aces High, not GV Warrior. As you can see I am less than sympathetic because of this. Frankly I just do not get the GV gamers who play a flying sim, and then complain about the guys in aircraft interacting with those on the ground.
"In the air, on land, or at sea, the battle rages 24 hours a day..."
Taken from the front page.
I dislike being bombed while in a GV. Usually after it happens I say, "DANG IT! Why didn't I have a guy in a Whirble with me?" :lol
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I just fail to see the significant difference between getting bombed by a jabo and getting shot by another tank.
When I'm in a tank, fighting other tanks, and there are planes overhead I still get killed by a tank the vast majority of the time.
Maybe I'm missing the point. Isn't it, "I drive from the spawn to my 'spot' and get bombed"? What if I drive from the spawn and get shot by a tank? Can't I re-up in another tank and try again?
wrongway
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I just fail to see the significant difference between getting bombed by a jabo and getting shot by another tank.
When I'm in a tank, fighting other tanks, and there are planes overhead I still get killed by a tank the vast majority of the time.
Maybe I'm missing the point. Isn't it, "I drive from the spawn to my 'spot' and get bombed"? What if I drive from the spawn and get shot by a tank? Can't I re-up in another tank and try again?
wrongway
The difference that causes all the :cry is that the tank is 'defenseless' against airplanes, and that's just plain not fair, according to some. Apparently there should be no advantage to putting together a multiple-pronged attack or defense, it should just be so that tanks can only get shot by tanks, and everything's fair.
I think based on that logic, it would also make sense that wirbles and ostwinds shouldn't be able to be killed by tanks, because they're defenseless against them. Planes shouldn't be able to be shot on the runway either by tanks, because they're defenseless at that point. It all amounts to the same thing.
Wiley.
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The difference that causes all the :cry is that the tank is 'defenseless' against airplanes, and that's just plain not fair, according to some. Apparently there should be no advantage to putting together a multiple-pronged attack or defense, it should just be so that tanks can only get shot by tanks, and everything's fair.
I think based on that logic, it would also make sense that wirbles and ostwinds shouldn't be able to be killed by tanks, because they're defenseless against them. Planes shouldn't be able to be shot on the runway either by tanks, because they're defenseless at that point. It all amounts to the same thing.
Wiley.
OK, I guess this idea will die with some of the rest of them. In my mind, twisted as it may be, having a single area where you could GV in some peace seems reasonable. Most seem to interpret this as some game changing epic solution. I do not think it is. Thanks for the input fellahs, I appreciate the sincere, mature responses.
-- Crusader
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OK, I guess this idea will die with some of the rest of them. In my mind, twisted as it may be, having a single area where you could GV in some peace seems reasonable. Most seem to interpret this as some game changing epic solution. I do not think it is. Thanks for the input fellahs, I appreciate the sincere, mature responses.
-- Crusader
I'm trying to help ya come up with other avenues, talk to shegotya she runs the heavy metal sundays, i dont see why they couldnt set up a weekly tankfest to really see if there are enough people wanting tank on tank action, Talk to one of the Special Events arena guys maybe they can come up with time frames that you could use, or the Ava, theres lots of choices besides the MA the last choice is TankCity in the DA, i think theres some kind of DA rule that you dont interfear with other people in certian area's i could be wrong, anyway im just trying to help :salute
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/68zoom/tankcity.jpg)
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Yeah and we need a gv free place to cuz there is nothing worse than getting ready to capture a town and a whirble pops up. Just not fair :D :devil
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I'm trying to help ya come up with other avenues, talk to shegotya she runs the heavy metal sundays, i dont see why they couldnt set up a weekly tankfest to really see if there are enough people wanting tank on tank action, Talk to one of the Special Events arena guys maybe they can come up with time frames that you could use, or the Ava, theres lots of choices besides the MA the last choice is TankCity in the DA, i think theres some kind of DA rule that you dont interfear with other people in certian area's i could be wrong, anyway im just trying to help :salute
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/68zoom/tankcity.jpg)
ya but the problem in those other arenas is the scores don't count when you land those 35 kills :devil
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OK, I guess this idea will die with some of the rest of them. In my mind, twisted as it may be, having a single area where you could GV in some peace seems reasonable. Most seem to interpret this as some game changing epic solution. I do not think it is. Thanks for the input fellahs, I appreciate the sincere, mature responses.
-- Crusader
Dirtdart:
Well, I come back from my holiday break, and see that this thread hasn’t fared very well. There have been a few sincere counter-arguments to your ideas, but most opponents are depressingly disingenuous and illogical. The objections of such opponents clearly derive from their personal gameplay preferences, and their inability to acknowledge personal preferences of others. They keep repeating the same things, and nothing posted in these threads will change their minds. Some of these illogical things include:
1) Tank combat is all spawn camping. (false)
2) When spawn camping occurs, GVers can't handle it. (false)
3) Proposed GV-friendly changes would apply outside of TT and ruin the rest of the MA. (false)
4) Since they don't enjoy GV-only battles, no one else does/should either. (false)
5) Proponents of the GV-friendly ideas in this and similar threads only play GVs, don't care about other types of gameplay, are thus hypocrites, and should therefore be ignored. (false)
6) Etc., etc.
Does that mean that your thread is useless? No it doesn't. You influenced Greebo, and generated useful discussion, which could later be leveraged in a Wishlist thread. Maybe I will try a Wishlist thread on this topic. If I do, its focus will be on enabling an additional gameplay mode, without detracting from existing modes, and why this will benefit HTC and the overall player base.
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Just read Oakranger's thread, and am feeling subdued. I guess that puts these kind of gameplay disagreements in perspetive.
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"the tank is 'defenseless' against airplanes" :huh I regularly get shot with main guns on tanks, when I get careless, got tired of that, learned to dive steeper when possible, & learned to shoot Il's with HE rounds...tat-tat-tat with the turret gun, then pull the trigger when ya get a flash. Shocks heck outa some when ya main gun 'em. :banana: But still I think a GV crater would be a fine solution for those who want it. :aok
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The difference that causes all the :cry is that the tank is 'defenseless' against airplanes, and that's just plain not fair, according to some. Apparently there should be no advantage to putting together a multiple-pronged attack or defense, it should just be so that tanks can only get shot by tanks, and everything's fair.
I think based on that logic, it would also make sense that wirbles and ostwinds shouldn't be able to be killed by tanks, because they're defenseless against them. Planes shouldn't be able to be shot on the runway either by tanks, because they're defenseless at that point. It all amounts to the same thing.
Wiley.
I still do not understand why they haven't at least removed enemy icons from tanks as seen from the air. That alone would even the playing field in my humble opinion.. Then the pilot has to actually hunt instead of looking for that big red icon...
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That would help a bit, but I always ask friendlies to lob a shell in a particular direction of a GV they're having the most trouble with. Once I start diving, unless their in thick trees I always see them before I see the ICON. :airplane:
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I still do not understand why they haven't at least removed enemy icons from tanks as seen from the air. That alone would even the playing field in my humble opinion.. Then the pilot has to actually hunt instead of looking for that big red icon...
Maybe when they add cut turf, exhaust smoke, cordite smoke and previous shell craters dont expire as it is seems the workable compromise.
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I still do not understand why they haven't at least removed enemy icons from tanks as seen from the air. That alone would even the playing field in my humble opinion.. Then the pilot has to actually hunt instead of looking for that big red icon...
the icon only shows within 1.5k anyway, i dont think it would make much diff.
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I still do not understand why they haven't at least removed enemy icons from tanks as seen from the air. That alone would even the playing field in my humble opinion.. Then the pilot has to actually hunt instead of looking for that big red icon...
Icons off.. I LIKE this idea :devil
*flees the angry mob*
:bolt:
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Dirtdart:
Well, I come back from my holiday break, and see that this thread hasn’t fared very well. There have been a few sincere counter-arguments to your ideas, but most opponents are depressingly disingenuous and illogical. The objections of such opponents clearly derive from their personal gameplay preferences, and their inability to acknowledge personal preferences of others. They keep repeating the same things, and nothing posted in these threads will change their minds. Some of these illogical things include:
1) Tank combat is all spawn camping. (false)
2) When spawn camping occurs, GVers can't handle it. (false)
3) Proposed GV-friendly changes would apply outside of TT and ruin the rest of the MA. (false)
4) Since they don't enjoy GV-only battles, no one else does/should either. (false)
5) Proponents of the GV-friendly ideas in this and similar threads only play GVs, don't care about other types of gameplay, are thus hypocrites, and should therefore be ignored. (false)
6) Etc., etc.
Does that mean that your thread is useless? No it doesn't. You influenced Greebo, and generated useful discussion, which could later be leveraged in a Wishlist thread. Maybe I will try a Wishlist thread on this topic. If I do, its focus will be on enabling an additional gameplay mode, without detracting from existing modes, and why this will benefit HTC and the overall player base.
This is what is going to happen, put on your big boy pants and take notes.
Let's say we implement this idea of an area where GVers can tank vs tank without worrying about planes or bombs.
Yes it would be a cool and thoughtfull idea to the minority, BUT here lies the problem. The bombers and fighters are the equalizers in TT.
If you get a squad of 15 tanks and you are able to position yourselfs to have a MASS spawn camping party, then how are you going to kill them? Well there are no ords or bombers available...your TT has now become a camp fest because campers can now camp unmolested by bombers. The camping in TT will boil to a point of insanity and TT will die very quickly.
"Hey want to go to TT?" "No, it is all just campers"
There are always people on to ruin the fun for everyone, with a TT with no Ords avaliable to bomb campers, all you need is ~8 guys working together to spawn camp to shut down TT.
"This will never happen you say?" Yes it will, cause I will be the one to get those 15 guys together :t Why? Because I will make obvious the flaws in your logic not by words but by action.
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This is what is going to happen, put on your big boy pants and take notes.
"This will never happen you say?" Yes it will, cause I will be the one to get those 15 guys together :t Why? Because I will make obvious the flaws in your logic not by words but by action.
Sigh.... there should be a sign that says "You must be this tall (holds hand waist high) to post".
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Sigh.... there should be a sign that says "You must be this tall (holds hand waist high) to post".
Forgetting that he's saying he'd do it, are you seriously contending that it wouldn't happen? In an online game, if it's possible within the game for people to use it to advantage, somebody will do it, period.
I do have a serious question though: Why should anything that should be a live target in the Main arena get special dispensation to not be attacked by something that has the capability to attack it? Why do people want to be in the Main Arena which has GVs, fighters, bombers, and CVs all running around in it fighting among themselves, but feel that only certain portions of the enabled enemy craft should be able to attack them? Why is that reasonable?
Wiley.
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Wiley simply put there is no special anything in the clouds that's already some vehicles in game already enjoy. Dots above the clouds are harder to by those underneath. This is really nothing radical. The tank centric areas are there for the tankers to fight it out. Since there are airfields then yes there will be guys killing gv. I think we also agree that a tank arena would be useless. So if there is a single place on the map of no strategic value where tanks can slug it out why all the concern. Ideally I would like to think that some players have enough character to let tanks in tt slug it out in peace. This is not the case. Since this is not the case increasing the degree of difficulty for the attack score heros was what I felt a viable option. Who honestly cares if tanks are in some part of the ma slugging it out?
Like I said earlier it looks like this among many others will fall on deaf ears. I look forward to playing on greebos new map if it is accepted.
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Wiley simply put there is no special anything in the clouds that's already some vehicles in game already enjoy. Dots above the clouds are harder to by those underneath. This is really nothing radical. The tank centric areas are there for the tankers to fight it out. Since there are airfields then yes there will be guys killing gv. I think we also agree that a tank arena would be useless. So if there is a single place on the map of no strategic value where tanks can slug it out why all the concern. Ideally I would like to think that some players have enough character to let tanks in tt slug it out in peace. This is not the case. Since this is not the case increasing the degree of difficulty for the attack score heros was what I felt a viable option. Who honestly cares if tanks are in some part of the ma slugging it out?
Like I said earlier it looks like this among many others will fall on deaf ears. I look forward to playing on greebos new map if it is accepted.
Maybe you are the one with deaf ears, you did not at any point in your response, make any invalid or valid points at my .02 cents.
Do you or do you not agree with my outlook? How are you going to take of the spawn campers with no air support?
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Wiley simply put there is no special anything in the clouds that's already some vehicles in game already enjoy.
Well, regardless of the mechanic being used, you're still effectively saying 'Protect tanks from aircraft.'
What is the difference between that, and a separate arena? Why is the idea of a separate arena so horrible, is it because then the people in planes will not get to see peoples' name in lights when they .ef their tank sortie? Is it because then it won't affect their main arena tanking score? If the tank is in the Main arena, why shouldn't it be subject to all the hazards the Main arena affords?
Who honestly cares if tanks are in some part of the ma slugging it out?
Personally, I don't give a tinker's dam about GVs. To me, they're the metal box I sit in and wait to die. I also don't care about score and ranking, but I can see this setup radically altering how easy it would be to score in tanks. I don't care about score, but I know a lot of people do and it would make it easier to not die in tanks compared to the past. Additionally, the fact that a designated TT would allow the aforementioned 15 people to camp unfettered pretty much negates it as a decent idea, IMO.
Wiley.
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for gawds sakes make the clouds at 1k, then we can fly under 1k find the tanks go 90 degree vertical and drop the bomb, now do you see where 1k clouds wont work? even if you made the clouds touching the ground someone will still bomb you, there have been very good options given, you want it YOUR way, good luck
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Maybe you are the one with deaf ears, you did not at any point in your response, make any invalid or valid points at my .02 cents.
Do you or do you not agree with my outlook? How are you going to take of the spawn campers with no air support?
There are multiple bases on TT, because we are only talking about TT.
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Why is the idea of a separate arena so horrible?
Wiley.
4 words World War One Arena
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4 words World War One Arena
Too many words. Try a few letters: AvA :old:
ISorry, I just could not resist :neener:
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4 words World War One Arena
Not the same. Completely different gameplay in the WWI arena. If there were a dedicated tanking arena, what would the difference between that and this 'safe zone' in the main arena be?
Wiley.
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try a werb i tryed one there more fun then the tanks and get even more kills :D
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So, last night in orange..... on TT island....
GV guys head to TT to slug it out.... the roster starts populating with names.... Tanks head into the central battle zone of the island....
Then a cloud of B-47Ns, B-38s, and Mossis show up. Bombs abound, GV fighting ceases. Fighters arc through the skies in energetic vengeful combat.
BAH.
I would like to see a guy bomb me if he can't see me or my icon through clouds. I would love to see someone "pull vertical" and bomb me a la' F84??? nuke bomb throw release.... whatever.
The new map, grinder was awesome. Isolated GV bases in the perimeter with high mountains around them to discourage aircraft. Awesome, and well received by all. No complaits as in this thread of giving GVrs a special place and so forth. Clouds still seem like a pretty reasonable solution to me.
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-1
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So, last night in orange..... on TT island....
GV guys head to TT to slug it out.... the roster starts populating with names.... Tanks head into the central battle zone of the island....
Then a cloud of B-47Ns, B-38s, and Mossis show up. Bombs abound, GV fighting ceases. Fighters arc through the skies in energetic vengeful combat.
BAH.
I would like to see a guy bomb me if he can't see me or my icon through clouds. I would love to see someone "pull vertical" and bomb me a la' F84??? nuke bomb throw release.... whatever.
The new map, grinder was awesome. Isolated GV bases in the perimeter with high mountains around them to discourage aircraft. Awesome, and well received by all. No complaits as in this thread of giving GVrs a special place and so forth. Clouds still seem like a pretty reasonable solution to me.
Wanna simulate reality? add something into TT that was common in WWII with respect to the ground war and the aircraft's ability to affect that ground fight... not just clouds, but SOUP.... thick, solid cover extending all the way down to a couple hundred feet and up to a few thousand. Soup so thick even Gen. Patton's chaplain couldn't conjure up a prayer to break it up. Guys would still be able to greif with IL2s and low-level bomb (something that would be much more dangerous because of the low level approach and the danger of splash damage), but it would be harder and vertical dive bombing (easy mode bombing) would be virtually eliminated. Heck, even give us random rainstorms and fog in TT to make it harder for the spawncampers to see.
Make it REAL, man!! :aok
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So, last night in orange..... on TT island....
GV guys head to TT to slug it out.... the roster starts populating with names.... Tanks head into the central battle zone of the island....
Then a cloud of B-47Ns, B-38s, and Mossis show up. Bombs abound, GV fighting ceases. Fighters arc through the skies in energetic vengeful combat.
BAH.
I would like to see a guy bomb me if he can't see me or my icon through clouds. I would love to see someone "pull vertical" and bomb me a la' F84??? nuke bomb throw release.... whatever.
The new map, grinder was awesome. Isolated GV bases in the perimeter with high mountains around them to discourage aircraft. Awesome, and well received by all. No complaits as in this thread of giving GVrs a special place and so forth. Clouds still seem like a pretty reasonable solution to me.
As soon as the bombing started, I left Tank Town. No fun can be had when a select few tards decide to ruin it for everyone else...
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try a werb i tryed one there more fun then the tanks and get even more kills :D
Coodued, your Werb argument does not make any sense.. I hear the same story. Up a werble in tank town if they are bombing. Tank Town is populated with tanks. Up a tank get a bomb dropped on your head. Up a Werb and get shot by another tank. Sounds like a no win situation..
Wirbles do not do well against M4 Sherman's..
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Every time I go bomb****ing, some really good shot pops up in a Whirble or Ossie & my Fun-Time is very limited. To me that's all that's necessary.
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I really don't know why I continue to bash my head against this particular wall. I'm just a masochist I guess.
Talk to the guys on the other side, come over to where I play, and GV your little hearts out. I'm willing to bet that 95% of the regulars will leave you alone so long as you're not messing with the airfields we're flying out of and you won't get bombed. Sometimes we even have events where GV's are needed and drivers with experience and skill on those platforms would be well received.
The egg tossers will have to find something else to do like actually fight a target that shoots back and you guys will be left unmolested for the most part.
Fair warning though. If Grumpy ups a tank start the timer before you die. He's pretty sharp in em.
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And here I thought this thread was dead, cleaned, cooked, served, eaten, trashed, and taken to the dump....
Have the last few pages added anything at all?
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nah, still alive and kicking. I do enjoy AvA, I just have never seen a GV fight in there....
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Have the last few pages added anything at all?"
I kinda liked my idea for overcast, rain and fog in TT...
:shrug:
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Just the same personality stuff.... GVrs are not / are (insert your spin) entitled to a place to duke it out in the MA.
The thing I have found amusing is that some of the contrarians are the same who litter 200 with "bomb****" and "lancstuka" accusations.
I thought it a low impact simple idea.... seems to be 50-50.
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nah, still alive and kicking. I do enjoy AvA, I just have never seen a GV fight in there....
start one
enough people know you and like you to start a ruckus :D
conversely enough people want your pelt on a wall to draw them in as well... win / win
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Hmmm... they certainly are not looking for Dirtdart.... probably his evil twin
Crusader :x
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Just take the ords out of the TT air fields. Wont stop it but will slow it down. They will still have IL2's but most of those guys can be shot with the main gun of a tank.
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I did read your biased and over-the-top posts as much as you read mine. The problem is you failed to get my point. I got yours. You're taking your ball and going home because you don't like to play with others.
See your quote there, for example. EVERYBODY that defies you by FLYING (omg!) around a GV fight is a swear word.
Yeah... sure.. THAT's a fair and balanced perspective (not!)
Bottom like in that scenario is,, you hear happy GV'rs not having to look overhead every 5 minutes and whiny bomb douchlings whine because they have nothing to bomb. So,,,,Krusty,,, why so opposed to it?? bomber rank drop?
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This is what is going to happen, put on your big boy pants and take notes.
Let's say we implement this idea of an area where GVers can tank vs tank without worrying about planes or bombs.
Yes it would be a cool and thoughtfull idea to the minority, BUT here lies the problem. The bombers and fighters are the equalizers in TT.
If you get a squad of 15 tanks and you are able to position yourselfs to have a MASS spawn camping party, then how are you going to kill them? Well there are no ords or bombers available...your TT has now become a camp fest because campers can now camp unmolested by bombers. The camping in TT will boil to a point of insanity and TT will die very quickly.
"Hey want to go to TT?" "No, it is all just campers"
There are always people on to ruin the fun for everyone, with a TT with no Ords avaliable to bomb campers, all you need is ~8 guys working together to spawn camp to shut down TT.
I agree with your statement with only one exception. Campers will only stay if they are getting kills.. If I spawn into a mega camped spawn point, I will only up a couple of times before I say it is not worth it to give away free kills.. Most guys will do the same thing..
Most tank towns have three spawns from each base that are apart enough to stop this practice if I am not mistaken..