Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on March 28, 2011, 11:50:41 PM
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i forget. there was a reason for this making it easier to land 1k bombs on tanks that are fighting other tanks?
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For the same reason why aircraft can see icons for other aircraft. In reality objects are a lot easier to spot than on a computer screen, so HTC added icons so it would not be harder than in real life.
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Think it about this way, last time you were on a commercial jet at 20,000 ft and you looked down at a highway and saw tiny little cars on it. Now climb to 20,000 ft in game and look for them, you'll notice a big difference.
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i forget. there was a reason for this making it easier to land 1k bombs on tanks that are fighting other tanks?
I do not care what GV is below me, i just dive in and drop my bomb on it.
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because it is called Aces High!!
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Hitech did it just to make you mad.
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could be worse?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_0oxQEoRi0
:uhoh
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could be worse?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_0oxQEoRi0
:uhoh
Our technology is not that advanced...
But your right, it could be worse....
(http://i455.photobucket.com/albums/qq278/GenBeef/Dweeb1.png)
(Beefcake's picture)
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Our technology is not that advanced...
(http://www.411mania.com/siteimages/six-million-dollar-man_50641.jpg)
WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY
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beefcake is one of my heroes
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I think most will agree that icon of some sort on gv's are needed (as seen from the air). The debate is more of just how close aircraft should be before those icons light up.
Currently, I think it is too easy for aircraft to find gv's. I think the distance should be shorter as in less than 1000 yards. Force the aircraft to actually scout and hunt, and then set up for a dive bomb. Also, by shortening the icon range the chance of the epitome of "bomb****ness", the pinnacle of travesties in AH, and the worst abuses of arcade game style play are minimized (see pic of B29 above). :D
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In real life GVs were very hard to spot from the air unless they were moving or firing. So how about making GVs' icon visibility range vary in a similar fashion. At rest the icon range would be less than it is now, but after every shot your icon range would jump briefly out a lot further. The icon range would also increase the faster you are moving.
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In real life GVs were very hard to spot from the air unless they were moving or firing. So how about making GVs' icon visibility range vary in a similar fashion. At rest the icon range would be less than it is now, but after every shot your icon range would jump briefly out a lot further. The icon range would also increase the faster you are moving.
That depends on how well they are camouflaged. For example this would be very easy to spot:
(http://www.tensionnot.com/pictures/images/Army/Camouflage-Tank.jpg)
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That depends on how well they are camouflaged. For example this would be very easy to spot:
(http://www.tensionnot.com/pictures/images/Army/Camouflage-Tank.jpg)
Unless of course you were in the middle of a orange-sand desert during a
big- orange sunset :noid
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IMHO the gv icons are just fine for playability. IF there were to be a change I would suggest it be based on aircraft speed. The slower the aircraft is flying the farther away the icon appears. Go zooming by at 300kts and you might not even get an icon. There is much that could be done, but this is still primarily an air combat game and HiTech resources could be better spent on other aspects. :old:
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why not post a wish for the ground vehicle icon viewing distance to be dropped to 1000 yards from the air as the ma default setting? it would require the icon settings for ground vehicles to be separated from aircraft in the game, but that's just a small coding issue that should be fairly easy to accomplish. with the new gv changes being developed it would be a shame to keep the current settings that according to many of the complaints i've seen posted, discourages those who enjoy using ground vehicles because they are easy targets from the air with that big neon sign visible out past 3000 yards. having separate icon settings for ground vehicles in the arena tables could make incorporating ground vehicles into special events setups a bit more palatable for admins and players.
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A wirbl can reach out and touch you with laser like accuracy out to 1.5k and you want to reduce icon range to ... what? After you're already dead?
Fail.
No double standards for GVs.
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A wirbl can reach out and touch you with laser like accuracy out to 1.5k and you want to reduce icon range to ... what? After you're already dead?
Fail.
No double standards for GVs.
Can't say I disagree here.
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A wirbl can reach out and touch you with laser like accuracy out to 1.5k and you want to reduce icon range to ... what? After you're already dead?
Fail.
No double standards for GVs.
this.
I'd be ok with reducing the icon range to 1000yds, just as long as its the same for gvs seeing aircraft icons. and turn on killshooter. :devil
anyone know what the numbers are for gvs vs aircraft? personally ive always been griefed more by wirbles ruining a dogfight than by jabos ruining a gv fight ...
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A wirbl can reach out and touch you with laser like accuracy out to 1.5k and you want to reduce icon range to ... what? After you're already dead?
Fail.
No double standards for GVs.
just like everything else krusty, it would end up being an "acceptable risk" and it should be a two way street...as it stands now, gv's are more vulnerable to lanc stukas than necessary and making an adjustable change for the sake of gameplay should be acceptable to those who choose to attack ground vehicles from the air.
you're too fast to judge without considering both sides of the coin...right now aircraft have it way too easy and it spoils what little ground war there is.
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at least lancstukas are usually operating within RL parameters (even if the limits arent modelled and the usage is ahistorical) unlike flaks which fire continuously without reloading ...
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IMO the GVs tend to ruin the air war!
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Gyrene, I have considered both sides.
I have also considered the GV players major propensity to whine like newborn babes with smacked buttocks if a plane so much as fires a round in the same sector as they did.
Fact of the matter is GVs can't operate with enemy planes overhead. Fact of the matter is most GV players in this game are so caught up in spawn camping and methods of gameplay so far outside historical context that it's laughable, that they don't want their kill streaks interrupted with a bomb. A bomb that was rightfully dropped and rightfully killed them. I've been on both sides of it, but there is a very vocal minority of GV players that scream shout and yell about aircraft around them and it is a detriment to the community to hear the false arguments that GVs are somehow special and worthy of protective sheilds or gamey protection from any air threat.
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come on krusty, even you have to admit, having a bright red neon sign over your tank visible by an airplane 3k out while your sitting in a stand of trees is just as gamey as camping a spawn. dive bombing runs occur within the 1000 yard envelope now, lowering the icon visibility from the air would not do anything to change that...it could even out the stakes a bit.
personally i don't do much gv'ing so my only stake in it is wanting the ability for special events admins to be able to manipulate the gv icons separately from aircraft...which in turn might make the use of gv's in special events more palatable.
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A wirbl can reach out and touch you with laser like accuracy out to 1.5k and you want to reduce icon range to ... what? After you're already dead?
Fail.
No double standards for GVs.
Just like in real life, when anti-air elements gave up their position only when they fired, you mean?
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i forget. there was a reason for this making it easier to land 1k bombs on tanks that are fighting other tanks?
Probably the same reason flaks can see icons of airplanes
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well here is the thing if you view the total war simulation as an ecosystem.
the tanks are the bottom of the food chain.
the il2's and b25hs and fighter bombers hunt the tanks.
the fighters kill the jabos.
if I am in an IL2 I can waste 5-6 tanks with ease with just cannons rounds. its too easy. I don't even have to try to look for the tanks I have a big red flag to kill them that the tanks on the ground dont have. and with the titanium trees and 20ft high random small hills I am the only one with an unobstructed line of sight to the target. all tanks in the sim now have at best a snapshot before their target gets behind a titanium bush or a hill.
field acks and manned acks and guns don't have icons. remove enemy gv icons entirely is what I am asking for.
this will give the bottom of the food chain a longer life span of 5 minutes instead of 3 minutes when the sky is filled with jabos. as for flaks? trains dont have icons. don't fly so low if your worried about random ground fire just like the real wartime pilots.
now I am asking for no gv icons from planes. I am well aware HTC will read into this and determine what it is I actually want and not what I am asking for.
What I believe I actually want is a more sustainable food supply for jabos above a ground war. I want more of a challenge of the hunt when flying my new love the il2. its to easy to find the tanks atm. stupid easy. especially compared to the current target aquisition difficulty whiel sitting in a tank. and if the jabos have to actually hunt for the tanks it means they will be sitting fat dumb and happy with eyes on the ground longer for all you fighter pukes dropping in on their unsuspecting heads.
its an ecosystem. the bottom of the food chain needs some balance of camoflage and hiding so it does not get removed entirely from the field of battle by one guy (me) in an il2 in 5 minutes
and remember this request for no gv icons from planes comes from the guy in the il2 who slaughters 5-6 tanks a sortie with ease.
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Armored columns were always pounded when the enemy had control of the air. Don't want your GV bombed call in Air support. :airplane:
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i forget. there was a reason for this making it easier to land 1k bombs on tanks that are fighting other tanks?
So you can see them better to hit with rockets. :D
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Here's an idea Citabria : If you're having such an easy time killing
GV's in your IL-2, why don't you just man up and master the PB-1
rockets on the 190-F8 instead?
Instead of hampering all the old farts who can't see in the first place
and removing icons, why not just make the game more challenging for
yourself?
Simply food for thought.
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While I lean towards Citabrias thoughts on this, I am still on the fence. Here is a thread of interest from the wishlist that is close to the subject matter:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,309652.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,309652.0.html)
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A wirbl can reach out and touch you with laser like accuracy out to 1.5k and you want to reduce icon range to ... what? After you're already dead?
Fail.
No double standards for GVs.
The "double standard" is already in place. We're only changing the range in which aircraft can see exactly what the GV is.
I guess that will make low-n-slow players (think IL-2/A20 easy mode aircraft) think twice about hangin' around. Better keep moving and make attack runs count. *Gasp*, people might have to hesitate a wee bit and scout the area prior to just swoopin' in and getting the kill.
I cant remember the last time I've been shot down by a Wirby or Osty unless I was diving straight at them. Not saying it does not happen, but staying fast and keeping your AoA away from the almighty Wirby is key.
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Armor on the ground in a wooded terrain is hard to see with 1940s technology. (eye balls) While aircraft can be heard and seen from the ground very easy. Tanks in real life are no treat to an air plane because it is near impossible to hit a moving aircraft with a main gun.
Anyone with an armor MOS (Military occupational Skill) who has looked through the main gun sight knows what I mean. No icons on the tanks are fine by me and more realistic. However if you don't want bombed take the time to go pork the ords at the offending airfield. It is the first thing I do before going to a GV spawn with a good ground fight underway.
We have some some very good changes coming our way for the Ground Ponders in this game such as new optics for the main gun.
Who knows what other up dates we are going to see from HTC. HTC staff took the time to look over World of Tanks game play and armor in order to bring the finer points to Aces High. Thanks HTC.
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The Wirbl THIS tour alone has over 17000 kills. That's more than the La7. That's more than the spit16. That's second only to the P-51 when compared to aircraft.
Pretending it's not effective so you can coddle the whiney GV players isn't the answer.
P.S. R105 the human eye is infinitely better at seeing than this game can display on a pixellated LCD. It's not accurate to say the human eye is worse than this game. It is in fact better in many ways, and they have all been discussed, proven with math and with actual experience from real-world pilots. 20/20 vision would have no problems seeing a giant 20-to-40ton tank sitting in a field. In this game we have a much harder time.
EDIT: Funny thing.. you can look up the stats, you know? The vast majority of those 17000+ kills are all planes. Naturally this thing isn't so effective against tanks. However, if you check the kills, this tour alone it has died more from combined P-47 action than from lancasters. It's died infinitely more from other GVs than it has from even IL2s or A20Gs... GVs are the vast majority of Wirb killers, and yet they keep asking for more and more unjustified concessions against planes.
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Seriously I think they are visible because this is a flight game with GVs.
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The icons are kind of superfluous. I can spot GVs from a distance long before the icon shows up, and can recognize what the model is, right around the time the icon shows up.
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fester, no icons for gv's in the main arenas would not fly (pardon the pun)...maybe a decent compromise would be somewhere between 1.5k and 2k??
Armored columns were always pounded when the enemy had control of the air. Don't want your GV bombed call in Air support. :airplane:
that is a bad example...running a column of gv's on an open road in ah is risking getting flipped from the drone trucks traveling 80mph...a lone tank in a stand of trees sitting still could not be seen easily, even if it was firing the main gun...especially from 12000 feet.
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The Wirbl THIS tour alone has over 17000 kills. That's more than the La7. That's more than the spit16. That's second only to the P-51 when compared to aircraft.
Pretending it's not effective so you can coddle the whiney GV players isn't the answer.
First, this suggestion is not so one can "coddle" the gv players. It will force aircraft to behave more like they want to stay alive, they will have to stay fast, keep a bit more alt, and not turn so tight so near enemy fire. Not a big deal for aircraft.
No one is going to dispute that the wirby is the best AA in the game. There is a reason it sits on top of the stats (vs the Osty and M16). Don't forget that there are far less to pick from and the wirby is the knee jerk reaction to combat aircraft from the ground. You are comparing apples to oranges. So your point is "FAIL". If you HO a wirby you are going to lose, remember that. Are you going to try and say the wirby is *that* good just because it sits on top of the stats and therefore an idea to shorten the icon distance for aircraft to ground is bunk? You'll have to come up with far better reasons than that to convince me and many others. ;)
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You can kill a Wirble easily if you just take the time to climb up to 6K or so and dive bomb it. Piece of cake.
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You can kill a Wirble easily if you just take the time to climb up to 6K or so and dive bomb it. Piece of cake.
Are you suggesting to actually work for it?
How dare you... :furious
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I personally like just creeping up to 1.5K and then opening up with all guns on the 25H. Usually takes 2-3 kills on alert flak drivers before damage forces rtb. Bombing is so easy it just feels cheap :P
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Duck, duck, GOOSE :devil
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They could fix a lot of the whining about GVs by allowing some fire to penetrate foliage. It would allow the mobile AA platforms to attack with some concealment.
In a game loaded with aircraft, any armored vehicle in the open is dead meat, regardless of icons. Funny that AH mimics reality.
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it would mimic reality more if ground units were calling in air strikes and spotting concealed tanks for the jabos instead of the aircraft spotting concealed tanks in the treelines and calling out their position to tanks?
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it would mimic reality more if ground units were calling in air strikes and spotting concealed tanks for the jabos instead of the aircraft spotting concealed tanks in the treelines and calling out their position to tanks?
FAC?
come on krusty, even you have to admit, having a bright red neon sign over your tank visible by an airplane 3k out while your sitting in a stand of trees is just as gamey as camping a spawn. dive bombing runs occur within the 1000 yard envelope now, lowering the icon visibility from the air would not do anything to change that...it could even out the stakes a bit.
What game are you flying in where GV icons are visible at 3k? Feet maybe?
RE: LancStukas.
Icons don't matter when you're carpet bombing.
wrongway
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it would mimic reality more if ground units were calling in air strikes and spotting concealed tanks for the jabos instead of the aircraft spotting concealed tanks in the treelines and calling out their position to tanks?
It is more difficult to spot tanks parked under trees, it is added to the fact you often don't get icons on GVs under trees.
If they allowed the GVs to fire through foliage, it would help balance things.
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Just thinking off the cuff here, but if the tank is actually concealed, I'm assuming there's no icon, just like it is with the planes, right? Is perhaps the easier solution to make it so the thing on the trees that allows concealment could be made a bit higher than it is, but invisible, so the icon won't show if they're close to foliage? Or if that was made taller, would we then have invisible plane eating barriers above the trees?
Seems to me if it's obscured, there should be no icon, if it's out in the open and/or moving, icon.
Wiley.
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Is perhaps the easier solution to make it so the thing on the trees that allows concealment could be made a bit higher than it is, but invisible, so the icon won't show if they're close to foliage?
That would help, this way, if the woods aren't as dense they can still obtain concealment. Right now, they need to be parked under the tree to obtain that concealment.
Seems to me if it's obscured, there should be no icon, if it's out in the open and/or moving, icon.
Agreed.
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tanks and flaks are food for jabos and bombers.
jabos are food for fighters and flaks
flaks and tanks are food for tanks
the circle of life in total war simulated combat in a nutshell.
your weakest link in the food chain is the ground units.
make the attack aircraft who are also feeding on ground units with the tanks work harder to eliminate the ground units.
with total elimination of all ground units by aircraft the ground war ends and the vehicles stop respawning to fight the other vehicles. a few will up flaks which will be picked off by tanks closing on the base but many up a fighter out of revenge for ruining the ground fight.
HTC is going through all this trouble and time to make tanks more fun to play.
yet when 1-2 guys in an il2 or jabo/bomber with bombs can literally wipe out 8-10 guys in vehicles on the ground with ease what happens to the guys on the ground who are also battling tanks?
they leave the ground fight they were trying to enjoy and bring in fighters.
meanwhile the ground fight stagnates because there is nothing to shoot at on one side.
just think of me as an environmentalist seeking to preserve the total war ecosystem
you want to add depth to the gv fight let them hide without icons from circling vultures above.
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What game are you flying in where GV icons are visible at 3k? Feet maybe?
RE: LancStukas.
Icons don't matter when you're carpet bombing.
wrongway
check it yourself...the distance from inside the cockpit is in yards so no, it's not 3k feet unless there is some majic switch that kicks in and converts to feet when spotting a gv from the air.
there is a distinct difference between carpet bombing and dive bombing...stuka is a dive bomber...lancaster isn't...when a lancaster dive bombs, it is then labeled "lancstuka"...and you know the gamey maneuver is made easier with the gv icon range.
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it would mimic reality more if ground units were calling in air strikes and spotting concealed tanks for the jabos instead of the aircraft spotting concealed tanks in the treelines and calling out their position to tanks?
Don't make me call Gomez on you...... you just returned to the game. :P
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tanks and flaks are food for jabos and bombers.
jabos are food for fighters and flaks
flaks and tanks are food for tanks
the circle of life in total war simulated combat in a nutshell.
your weakest link in the food chain is the ground units.
make the attack aircraft who are also feeding on ground units with the tanks work harder to eliminate the ground units.
with total elimination of all ground units by aircraft the ground war ends and the vehicles stop respawning to fight the other vehicles. a few will up flaks which will be picked off by tanks closing on the base but many up a fighter out of revenge for ruining the ground fight.
HTC is going through all this trouble and time to make tanks more fun to play.
yet when 1-2 guys in an il2 or jabo/bomber with bombs can literally wipe out 8-10 guys in vehicles on the ground with ease what happens to the guys on the ground who are also battling tanks?
they leave the ground fight they were trying to enjoy and bring in fighters.
meanwhile the ground fight stagnates because there is nothing to shoot at on one side.
just think of me as an environmentalist seeking to preserve the total war ecosystem
you want to add depth to the gv fight let them hide without icons from circling vultures above.
Sorry, that makes too much sense and therefore, will not be allowed :noid
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It's not a circle of life. It's not an eco system. Any one of those 3 elements can feed on any of the other three. It's not a hierarchy where the system breaks down if one of the "points on the circle" is lessened.
P.S. Gyrene doesn't quite get it. Vehicle icons are only 1.5k right now as seen from planes. Not 3K.
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P.S. Gyrene doesn't quite get it. Vehicle icons are only 1.5k right now as seen from planes. Not 3K.
hmmm...screenshot posted by machfly shows a friendly at 1.7k...bet it's actually further out than that.
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hmmm...screenshot posted by machfly shows a friendly at 1.7k...bet it's actually further out than that.
Friendly icons show to 6k, enemy GV icons show to 1.5
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How about a trade - no icons for tanks, but 2.0k icons for Flaks?
Funny how whiny Gvers complain about being bombed, yet have no qualms about camping airfields and vulching everything in sight.
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OH SNAP!
How about a trade - no icons for tanks, but 2.0k icons for Flaks?
Funny how whiny Gvers complain about being bombed, yet have no qualms about camping airfields and vulching everything in sight.
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Friendly icons show to 6k, enemy GV icons show to 1.5
Yeah... Somebody's showing he doesn't even know what the discussion's about. He's never bombed or attacked a GV before, or he'd know that.
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Yeah... Somebody's showing he doesn't even know what the discussion's about. He's never bombed or attacked a GV before, or he'd know that.
uh huh...more like never paid enough attention to the distance once the red neon sign popped up...the only time i ever drop a bomb on a gv is when there are friendly gv's around asking for bombs to be dropped on the enemies...and most of the time the enemy tank is in a stand of trees.
if it is 1.5k for enemy tanks then that's 4500 feet...a tank or half track with camouflage paint sitting out on open ground...ok that's very possible...in a stand of trees or a hedge row? no way.
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Just thinking off the cuff here, but if the tank is actually concealed, I'm assuming there's no icon, just like it is with the planes, right? Is perhaps the easier solution to make it so the thing on the trees that allows concealment could be made a bit higher than it is, but invisible, so the icon won't show if they're close to foliage? Or if that was made taller, would we then have invisible plane eating barriers above the trees?
Seems to me if it's obscured, there should be no icon, if it's out in the open and/or moving, icon.
Wiley.
Enemy GV icons are LOS. If there's a gap in the foliage, it shows up.
I sat in an M-3 one night for 20 minutes about 2k from a town, waiting. I was in heavy foliage. To the point I couldn't see anything. Apparently no one could see me either.
wrongway
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just think of me as an environmentalist seeking to preserve the total war ecosystem
you want to add depth to the gv fight let them hide without icons from circling vultures above.
+1000
It's easy enough to spot GVs without the BIG RED ICON winking you in the face, I say get rid of enemy GV icons :aok
JUGgler
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Hmmmmm why can they see an Airplane from 5k out? seems to me that looking up in the sky one would see it approaching or circling, the features been in the game for as long as i remember and all of a sudden it's an issue :headscratch:
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Seeing an airplane against the sky is the same whether you're in a vehicle or in an airplane. Seeing an airplane on the ground has its icon obscured because the icon's underneath it.
Given that GVs are so easy to spot and ID, why give them the billboard treatment unlike what NOE planes get? You can see that hard black dot that stands out from the rest of the terrain from a ways out already, and the only time it'd be unfair for GVs to not have an icon pointing em out would be when you're just wheels up or when you spawn - but then you would know to check from the tower for the GV's position because the base alarm is tripped.
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The icons are kind of superfluous. I can spot GVs from a distance long before the icon shows up, and can recognize what the model is, right around the time the icon shows up.
My thoughts exactly. I think its a good idea. I may feel different afterwards, but I would be okay with disabling all enemy icons like AVA but w/out national plane set restrictions. :uhoh :bolt:
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Hmmmmm why can they see an Airplane from 5k out? seems to me that looking up in the sky one would see it approaching or circling, the features been in the game for as long as i remember and all of a sudden it's an issue :headscratch:
Quite so... More of the GV whining we saw from Red Storm/Krupp Steel, no doubt.
Moot, it's not so easy to spot and ID GVs. They are all square little boxes of pixels with treads. Unless you get in under 500 yards and use max zoom actually making out a profile while flying is nearly impossible.
On top of that you only get icons showing up right as you're in lethal guns range. Further, most times I'm spotting GVs at a spawn point that are attacking my field, I have to circle several times. The icons stay relative to your screen so if you are tilted the icon can dig into the ground. It is also obscured by trees. That means not only do you have to get close, often you have to stay close to figure out how to read that icon.
It's FAR from the sitting duck wounded target you portray it as being.
Also: Keep in mind GV's zoom from the main gun is much stronger magnification than the zoom from a plane's cockpit, last I recall. On top of that, the zoom/view systems are all being redesigned by HTC and your entire point may be moot anyways.
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You know what? My 190A8 is a sitting duck to any other plane in the game. I want my icon removed as well. I don't want people to see me so they have a harder time killing me, regardless of whether I'm flying through a giant enemy horde or not.
It follows your precedent, so it must be valid, right?
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It's not a circle of life. It's not an eco system. Any one of those 3 elements can feed on any of the other three. It's not a hierarchy where the system breaks down if one of the "points on the circle" is lessened.
only bombs and large bore cannons can kill tanks. tanks can not kill fighters and pure fighters carrying only mg and small cannons can not kill tanks. by nature of their mission they are at opposite ends of the food chain.
the hybrids of this are indeed the flaks and jabos. but the hybrids are vulnerable to their natural predators. the pure tanks and fighters.
when I made Ozkansas my theories behind what I posted above were employed in the design of the map. Its objectives were to facilitate situations where all elements of the game would converge for fantastic explosions and layered fights involving all classes of ground vehicles and aircraft.
your saying I have no idea what I am talking about when I say a sustained combined arms virtual war follows the same tendencies of other natural cycles and phenomenon?
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only bombs and large bore cannons can kill tanks. tanks can not kill fighters
i see tanks killing planes, either they point there main gun and shoot or use the MG that's on the main gun to shoot at you, heck i shot down two planes with a jeeps 50Cal, so to say tanks they cant kill them is just not accurate at all
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i see tanks killing planes, either they point there main gun and shoot or use the MG that's on the main gun to shoot at you, heck i shot down two planes with a jeeps 50Cal, so to say tanks they cant kill them is just not accurate at all
True dat bro...
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You know what? My 190A8 is a sitting duck to any other plane in the game. I want my icon removed as well. I don't want people to see me so they have a harder time killing me, regardless of whether I'm flying through a giant enemy horde or not.
It follows your precedent, so it must be valid, right?
This is possibly the silliest and most dishonest comparison in regards to this issue I've seen yet!
Removing enemy gv icons would not take away from the game at all, although it coiuld quite poissibly enhance it for many.
JUGgler
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it's not so easy to spot and ID GVs. They are all square little boxes of pixels with treads.
That's right, that squareness sticks out like a crenelated square zit on a vegetable landscape. Hard black/brown-peppered black dots on an otherwise homogeneous because perfectly repetitive landscape.
Unless you get in under 500 yards and use max zoom actually making out a profile while flying is nearly impossible.
Hyperbole. The only difficulty is that some pieces of brush sometimes have the hard black look of a vehicle. But if you zoom in or fly up to it, it's not hard to ID it as a plant way before 3K distance.
Also: Keep in mind GV's zoom from the main gun is much stronger magnification than the zoom from a plane's cockpit, last I recall. On top of that, the zoom/view systems are all being redesigned by HTC and your entire point may be moot anyways.
What does that have to do with anything? What argument in this thread hinges on tank turrets' zoom relative to planes'?
You know what? My 190A8 is a sitting duck to any other plane in the game. I want my icon removed as well. I don't want people to see me so they have a harder time killing me, regardless of whether I'm flying through a giant enemy horde or not.
It follows your precedent, so it must be valid, right?
Yeah, the 190A8 is a GV.
i see tanks killing planes, either they point there main gun and shoot or use the MG that's on the main gun to shoot at you, heck i shot down two planes with a jeeps 50Cal, so to say tanks they cant kill them is just not accurate at all
With two equally average skilled but trained players, that's not gonna happen. Pintle guns have a big conic hole in coverage above them.
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That's right, that squareness sticks out like a crenelated square zit on a vegetable landscape. Hard black/brown-peppered black dots on an otherwise homogeneous because perfectly repetitive landscape. Hyperbole. The only difficulty is that some pieces of brush sometimes have the hard black look of a vehicle. But if you zoom in or fly up to it, it's not hard to ID it as a plant way before 3K distance.
I am perfectly willing to admit the possibility that I suck, and that my eyesight sucks. Red/green color blind on top of it. However, with that said I would ask you to consider the possibility that you might be above average, or possibly as first went across my mind, 'freakishly above average'?
With the landscape moving by below me, the ground clutter jams up my ability to see GVs more often than not. Once I see them, I can track them ok-ish if I stay close, but to ID one from 3k out is for me personally, to say the least highly optimistic.
Wiley.
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That's right, that squareness sticks out like a crenelated square zit on a vegetable landscape. Hard black/brown-peppered black dots on an otherwise homogeneous because perfectly repetitive landscape. Hyperbole.
I suspect it's depending a lot on graphics card & AH graphic settings how much that "square zit" really stands out. Under most circumstances, I have a very hard time spotting enemy GVs beyond icon range.
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To expand on Greebo's comment, I think the most effective and realistic way to tailor to all things considered would be for the icon range to change based upon different factors. For example:
1. Tank Firing: Icon @ 2.5k for up to 5 seconds after last burst of ammo fired.
2. Tank Moving: Icon @ 1.5k for up to 5 seconds after last movement.
3. Tank Not Moving Nor Firing: Icon @ <500yds.
Exact ranges are up for debate but this would be the best system.
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I'll take some screenshots.
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I believe the motion has more to do with it than the shapes, myself. I don't think a screen shot is an apples to apples comparison.
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To expand on Greebo's comment, I think the most effective and realistic way to tailor to all things considered would be for the icon range to change based upon different factors. For example:
1. Tank Firing: Icon @ 2.5k for up to 5 seconds after last burst of ammo fired.
2. Tank Moving: Icon @ 1.5k for up to 5 seconds after last movement.
3. Tank Not Moving Nor Firing: Icon @ <500yds.
Exact ranges are up for debate but this would be the best system.
if that were at all possible for gv's...good idea.
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You know what? My 190A8 is a sitting duck to any other plane in the game.
You speak the truth. YOU flying a 190A8 is the definition of "sitting duck".
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Quite so... More of the GV whining we saw from Red Storm/Krupp Steel, no doubt.
Moot, it's not so easy to spot and ID GVs. They are all square little boxes of pixels with treads. Unless you get in under 500 yards and use max zoom actually making out a profile while flying is nearly impossible.
On top of that you only get icons showing up right as you're in lethal guns range. Further, most times I'm spotting GVs at a spawn point that are attacking my field, I have to circle several times. The icons stay relative to your screen so if you are tilted the icon can dig into the ground. It is also obscured by trees. That means not only do you have to get close, often you have to stay close to figure out how to read that icon.
It's FAR from the sitting duck wounded target you portray it as being.
Also: Keep in mind GV's zoom from the main gun is much stronger magnification than the zoom from a plane's cockpit, last I recall. On top of that, the zoom/view systems are all being redesigned by HTC and your entire point may be moot anyways.
You can easily see a gv, by itself in a field, from 5K. Among trees, not so well.
Heck, you can bomb them from 18K in a level bomber, if you have one good eye.
If you have some sort of vision issue, and need to zoom in, I wish everyone had it. It would be that much more realistic.
I'm sorry, but tanks were not hit, while under cover. Case in point, Germany 1944. 1,800 tanks moved within 5 Km of the forward lines at the Battle of the Bulge, under total allied air supremacy.
A single tank in this game is a beacon, as it stands.
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To expand on Greebo's comment, I think the most effective and realistic way to tailor to all things considered would be for the icon range to change based upon different factors. For example:
1. Tank Firing: Icon @ 2.5k for up to 5 seconds after last burst of ammo fired.
2. Tank Moving: Icon @ 1.5k for up to 5 seconds after last movement.
3. Tank Not Moving Nor Firing: Icon @ <500yds.
Exact ranges are up for debate but this would be the best system.
I'm not against this idea. I actually think it's too easy to spot GV's from the air myself, even though I seldom kill GV's or drive GV's.
To tailor GV "detectability" based on different factors, though, wouldn't it be safe to assume it should be easier for a multi-manned bomber to spot/locate GV's than it is would be for a single-pilot fighter?
I hate to see the large bombers used as dive-bombers, but then again, they've got "extra" eyes on board, so I'd think they could locate GV's easier... Heck, in RL, might they not have binoculars, even?
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which statement is more applicable to Aces High?
1
I am an attack plane flyer and I attack ground vehicles. I have no trouble finding ground vehicles but I run out of targets quickly because the ground guys stop playing and go do somthing else so I left too.
or
2
I am an attack plane flyer and I attack ground vehicles. I have trouble spotting them if they are not firing or moving in the open. It seems like the ground war is still going on after I die or rtb. so I upped in a tank to join the ground fight.
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In real life GVs were very hard to spot from the air unless they were moving or firing. So how about making GVs' icon visibility range vary in a similar fashion. At rest the icon range would be less than it is now, but after every shot your icon range would jump briefly out a lot further. The icon range would also increase the faster you are moving.
Not only would they be hard to spot. But often even if they were spotted it was very difficult to determine friend from foe.
60 years later we still occasionally have that problem
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Because GVs only exist in the first place so planes will have something to bomb.
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Because GVs only exist in the first place so planes will have something to bomb.
ya, i guess all the destroyable structures aren't meant to be bombed... :headscratch:
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I hate to see the large bombers used as dive-bombers, but then again, they've got "extra" eyes on board, so I'd think they could locate GV's easier... Heck, in RL, might they not have binoculars, even?
this brings up a whole other issue, lanc-stukas (and now b29s apparently)== lame
seriously, why don't the wings break?
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which statement is more applicable to Aces High?
1
or
2
3
I upped in attack to protect the base but could not see any gvs so I left
4
What are GVs doing in Aces High, they must be there for folks who like to bomb things
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ya, i guess all the destroyable structures aren't meant to be bombed... :headscratch:
I have never seen a 200 complaint or a forum post from a destroyable structure...what would be the point of bombing those?
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In September of 1944 the British flew a lot of air recon missions over Arnhem and managed to totally miss a bunch of German tanks and thousands of SS troops before Operation Marketgarden. In Army combat maneuvers I has seen scout choppers fly right over a 60 tank sitting under trees in broad day light at 200 feet and not see us. To bad real tanks don't have icons lol.
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I have never seen a 200 complaint or a forum post from a destroyable structure...what would be the point of bombing those?
:lol i've never seen a complaint from one either...but i have seen some complaints about strats not being worth the effort, i don't survive strat runs so i don't know if they are or not.
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You can easily see a gv, by itself in a field, from 5K. Among trees, not so well.
Heck, you can bomb them from 18K in a level bomber, if you have one good eye.
If you have some sort of vision issue, and need to zoom in, I wish everyone had it. It would be that much more realistic.
I'm sorry, but tanks were not hit, while under cover. Case in point, Germany 1944. 1,800 tanks moved within 5 Km of the forward lines at the Battle of the Bulge, under total allied air supremacy.
A single tank in this game is a beacon, as it stands.
This has no bearing- do a little research on subjects before using them for fact. Weather plays a crucial role, regardless of who maintains air supremacy, check out what the weather was like prior to, which would be during the Axis movement, and during the battle. The weather was one of the key decision points for Hitler... And your tank numbes are off, at the beginning of the Battle Germany had 600 tanks- far off from your 1,800 figure. Which also contributes to their ability to move undetected.
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Because, as everybody knows, Pilots have better sight than the rest of you mortals. :O
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The other day, i dived from 7k to bombed a GV. The individual that i killed PM me, asking me how i could see him from that high up. From 7-8 k, GVs show up as little black squares, for some other reason. There are times that they stand out well and other times i have to look harder. From being that high, 75% of the time i can tell if it is a jeep, flak, M-8 or tank. Specifically knowing what kind of GV (mostly tank) i really do not know until i get 1.5 k icon.
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Another thing, if you have anti aliasing on you are probably seeing half or less of the "black square" effect.
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Another thing, if you have anti aliasing on you are probably seeing half or less of the "black square" effect.
Is that why i have the black square?
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I dunno, try it and see. From what I've seen with the handful of gfx cards I've run AH on, it probably is.