Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Penguin on June 06, 2011, 07:18:56 AM
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Our old Honda Accord has nearly gotten my mom hurt on the highways a few times now, and the plan is to buy a sedan with AWD. We know next to nothing about cars, and would like to get some opinions on pitfalls to avoid when shopping around. Our current pick is an Audi A4, but perhaps you guys know something we don't.
-Penguin
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Audi is a great car.
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The more expensive the car the more expensive the repairs. I also noticed expensive cars break more often because they have more widgets and de-value more quickly. The best AWD cars for the money, considering all categories, is a Subaru Outback in my opinion. Use this car as your base line for research when comparing reviews. Do lots of it and let me know if I'm wrong.
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The best AWD cars for the money, considering all categories, is a Subaru Outback in my opinion. Use this car as your base line for research when comparing reviews.
+1
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.......and Oil Changes can last up to 18500 miles.........
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.......and Oil Changes can last up to 18500 miles.........
Oil changes for Audi is every 10k miles.
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Our old Honda Accord has nearly gotten my mom hurt on the highways a few times now, and the plan is to buy a sedan with AWD. We know next to nothing about cars, and would like to get some opinions on pitfalls to avoid when shopping around. Our current pick is an Audi A4, but perhaps you guys know something we don't.
-Penguin
IF you're in the usa, avoid audi at all cost. they suck here. they have non-stop problems, as could be attested to by the most recent customer of mine, whom i recommended he not buy his a6 quattro. it's a 2001 with only 101k on it.......and he's spent nearly 6k on it in the last 5 months. he's not the only one.
if you want a decent, reliable good awd car, go with a subaru. feel free to pm me with any questions. :aok
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say no to audi :bolt:
suby's are fine :old:
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Yep Subaru is good especially considering the dirt cheap gasoline prices you have there.
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I might be a bit bias, but you can always look for a good used Jaguar X-Type.
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7117/212kk.jpg) (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/212kk.jpg/)
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We need this car to be cheap to operate during the other three seasons. The only reason we need AWD is my mom keeps losing traction on the icy surface of I-95.
-Penguin
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Our old Honda Accord has nearly gotten my mom hurt on the highways a few times now, and the plan is to buy a sedan with AWD. We know next to nothing about cars, and would like to get some opinions on pitfalls to avoid when shopping around. Our current pick is an Audi A4, but perhaps you guys know something we don't.
-Penguin
AWD is a huge drain on MPG, we're talking huge compared to 2WD. Also tire wear, not hideous, but again _huge_ in comparison to a 2WD accord where you can rotate the tries a few times and be good as new for another year or so.
How would the AWD make her driving safer and avoid the hazards she has faced before?
From experience, they're not safer on the road than my 2WD civics or accords have been, short of snow/ice and even then you're gonna be going slow (see my next point). They accelerate faster because they usually have larger powerplants, but in terms of safety that's only one good in trade for a number of bads. An old sayign with 4x4s that is also true with AWDs, is that they sure can get going, but they're not as easy to get to stop. This is multiplied in bad weather... sure the AWD and 4x4s don't need chains to get going 30-35 down a road covered with an inch of ice/slush underneath 5 inches of snow... they will however need just as much room/time/space to stop/slow down as a 2WD (and this is why I use chains on my AWD in bad weather sometimes even if I don't have to, acceleration never a problem, slowing down and braking though if the road hasn't been plowed in a while...). And if you didn't buy new tires before the winter, be it rain or snow or ice, it can be worse than a 2WD with fresh tires. Again, they are heavier and they wear down tires faster, so they do not stop under any condition better than a 2WD vehicle on any given sunday IMHO.
I'm in the process of inheriting my mother's '94 CRV w/ AWD, she just picked up a '11 CRV w/ 2WD. It actualy handles on the road a lot better than the old one (handles fine offroad too, but doesn't have the AWD traction or stiffer suspention of the older CRV).
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This isn't my opinion, I'm quoting my mom:
"The AWD drivetrain improves traction by powering more wheels"
Is this the case, or is she just pulling this out of her butt?
-Penguin
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We need this car to be cheap to operate during the other three seasons. The only reason we need AWD is my mom keeps losing traction on the icy surface of I-95.
-Penguin
Honda AWD is not cheaper than Honda 2WD systems, but it is cheaper than Suburu AWD systems. Again though, I can't express to you how useless AWD is going to be if she can't keep up with replacing the tires almost twice as often as she has been on her accord.
AWD will definetley be noticable though in helping her keep traction while accelerating though on intermitent patches of ice/snow... but not while braking though, that is a most definitie, AWD/4x4 will help her go on ice/snow but not stop.
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do a Subuaru if your lookin for a cheap reliable car. i know a few people who have them, and theyre good cars. Audis are good, but as mentioned theyre a PITA to keep running. my friend has an audi TT, then engine mounts rotted away (its an 01) and his exhaust broke, yes i said broke, right after the cat. deep pockets to keep em running..,
ive seen some posts about oil changes..and i pray your joking. who cares what the manufacturer "recomends", if they say 10k, stick to 3k. if they say 40k..stick to 3k. anyone look at oil thats been in for 5k as opposed to 3k? hows about 10k.... I'm sure CAP has, some dirty stuff. and it gets circulated through your engine.....This isn't my opinion, I'm quoting my mom:
"The AWD drivetrain improves traction by powering more wheels"
Is this the case, or is she just pulling this out of her butt?
-Penguin
its the theory, but in all likely hood, i doubt it to be true. CAP can explain more, but heres my reasoning. as opposed to 2 wheels pulling you you have all 4. if you need to stop i na hurry, you have power to all 4 wheels, reduces your braking power, increases your stopping distance. If your on snow (or better yet ice...) you have power to all 4 wheels. you slip and your gonna have your hands full. it isnt like a RWD where you do as needed to the throttle and steering wheel. you have your front wheels pulling you, which control your steering.
AWD is good in its own domain, as is FWD, or RWD, but all have theyre flaws.
thinking about traction.... itll be a little more money, but get reasonably good set of summer tires and a reasonably good set of winter tires.
Honda AWD is not cheaper than Honda 2WD systems, but it is cheaper than Suburu AWD systems. Again though, I can't express to you how useless AWD is going to be if she can't keep up with replacing the tires almost twice as often as she has been on her accord.
AWD will definetley be noticable though in helping her keep traction while accelerating though on intermitent patches of ice/snow... but not while braking though, that is a most definitie, AWD/4x4 will help her go on ice/snow but not stop.
+1 bold.
:salute good luck!
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Let's recap:
Audi is going to break the bank with repairs
AWD will eat tyres for breakfast, and needs regular replacements
AWD helps you start, but makes stopping more difficult
-Penguin
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Let's recap:
Audi is going to break the bank with repairs
AWD will eat tyres for breakfast, and needs regular replacements
AWD helps you start, but makes stopping more difficult
-Penguin
youve eben paying attention. :rock
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You guys are helping a lot! I'll be sure to show this my mom and dad before they make that $40,000+ decision.
-Penguin
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Let's recap:
Audi is going to break the bank with repairs (I have no personal experience so I can't argue, but they do seem to take a lot of maintenance IMHO (either agressively investing in it preventively or having to pay for it as things arise down the line))
AWD will eat tyres for breakfast, and needs regular replacements (only because she had/has an Accord, very tire-wear friendly vehicles - IE: with proper rotations/maintenance she can get 3-4 years per set of 4 tires, easy. going to AWD she'll get 2 if she's lucky, it's just gonna be really noticable is all I'm saying. and because traction is her thing, worn out tires would be a turn-off.)
AWD helps you start, but makes stopping more difficult (I wouldn't say more difficult, lets just say equal (which can be a surprise to people, unfortunatley sometimes at a most dangerous moment). It could be a nightmare if you can't afford new tires until spring. And also AWD/4x4 packages are just inheritantley heavier/more-mass than 2WD systems in the same exact car: IE: a brake test on an unplowed road, AWD-car is going 40mph and weights 4,700 pounds, 2WD car is going 40mph and weighs 4,450 pounds, which one will stop in the shortest amount of distance?)
-Penguin
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Here's the thing with All-Wheel-Drive and Four-Wheel-Drive vehicles. While they will help you to maintain traction during adverse conditions (snow, offroading, etc) they really do little to help with ice. The reason why is real simple - ICE IS SLICK!
AWD refers to how many wheels have the ability to transfer power from the engine to the pavement. On the Accord for example, it's Front-Wheel-Drive - meaning only the front wheels can drive the car. The two wheels in the rear simply free-spin and are not even connected to the engine. Rear-Wheel-Drive cars are similar, except in those cases it's the front wheels that don't contribute. All-Wheel-Drive cars can use any (or all) of the wheels to transfer power from the engine to the road.
AWD helps with traction during acceleration because it can evenly distribute the power among all four wheels... reducing the amount of wheel slippage. It can also transfer the power that would normally go to a wheel that has no traction to a wheel that does have traction. This is very good news if you need quick, stable acceleration - or if you need to navigate through extreme conditions (once again, such as deep snow or offroading conditions).
What AWD does *NOT* help with is sliding. Most accidents on icy roads are due to cornering or slowing down - NOT accelerating. When there is no power being transferred to the wheels, then AWD makes no difference whatsoever. Instead one must rely on other technologies such as stability control, Anti-lock brakes, and advanced tire technologies (such as used in specific snow/ice tires). Sometimes advances in these technologies go hand-in-hand with cars that have AWD (Such as the Audi) but this has little to do with the actual AWD itself. Another thing people almost never mention is driving experience and driver's education. Personally I believe that a driver who knows how to handle a vehicle under adverse conditions will be MUCH more effective than any of these advanced technologies.
It is a common misconception that AWD/4WD vehicles are safer and handle better on snowy/icy roads. This is simply NOT TRUE! If anything else it often installs a false sense of security in the driver which can lead them to push the envelope too much and actually increase the risk of an accident. If your parents are considering an AWD vehicle based SOLELY on the presence of snow/ice on an interstate for a few months out of the year then they are most likely going to be sorely disappointed.
And as previously mentioned, AWD vehicles get less fuel economy than their Two-Wheel-Drive counterparts. Especially with the price of gas these days this can lead to them being significantly more expensive to operate. If money is an issue then perhaps your parents should consider purchasing a good set of snow/ice tires to use in the Winter months instead of purchasing a whole new car.
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I might be a bit bias, but you can always look for a good used Jaguar X-Type.
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7117/212kk.jpg)
(http://img689.imageshack.us/i/212kk.jpg/)
very expensive to repair/maintain....and it WILL need repairs
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AWD is a huge drain on MPG, we're talking huge compared to 2WD. Also tire wear, not hideous, but again _huge_ in comparison to a 2WD accord where you can rotate the tries a few times and be good as new for another year or so.
How would the AWD make her driving safer and avoid the hazards she has faced before?
From experience, they're not safer on the road than my 2WD civics or accords have been, short of snow/ice and even then you're gonna be going slow (see my next point). They accelerate faster because they usually have larger powerplants, but in terms of safety that's only one good in trade for a number of bads. An old sayign with 4x4s that is also true with AWDs, is that they sure can get going, but they're not as easy to get to stop. This is multiplied in bad weather... sure the AWD and 4x4s don't need chains to get going 30-35 down a road covered with an inch of ice/slush underneath 5 inches of snow... they will however need just as much room/time/space to stop/slow down as a 2WD (and this is why I use chains on my AWD in bad weather sometimes even if I don't have to, acceleration never a problem, slowing down and braking though if the road hasn't been plowed in a while...). And if you didn't buy new tires before the winter, be it rain or snow or ice, it can be worse than a 2WD with fresh tires. Again, they are heavier and they wear down tires faster, so they do not stop under any condition better than a 2WD vehicle on any given sunday IMHO.
I'm in the process of inheriting my mother's '94 CRV w/ AWD, she just picked up a '11 CRV w/ 2WD. It actualy handles on the road a lot better than the old one (handles fine offroad too, but doesn't have the AWD traction or stiffer suspention of the older CRV).
actually, awd carsd are a bit better.
customer of mine has a wrx putting as little over 500hp to the tires. he LOVES driving that in the rain, and light snow. says it goes exactly where he points it, even when he's on the throttle.
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Let's recap:
Audi is going to break the bank with repairs
AWD will eat tyres for breakfast, and needs regular replacements
AWD helps you start, but makes stopping more difficult
-Penguin
kept properly rotated, aligned and assuming normal driving habits awd won't hurt your tires that bad. the pitfall is that on some models, you cannot replace only 1 or 2 at a time...some models, you have to do 4 or none.
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Here's the thing with All-Wheel-Drive and Four-Wheel-Drive vehicles. While they will help you to maintain traction during adverse conditions (snow, offroading, etc) they really do little to help with ice. The reason why is real simple - ICE IS SLICK!
AWD refers to how many wheels have the ability to transfer power from the engine to the pavement. On the Accord for example, it's Front-Wheel-Drive - meaning only the front wheels can drive the car. The two wheels in the rear simply free-spin and are not even connected to the engine. Rear-Wheel-Drive cars are similar, except in those cases it's the front wheels that don't contribute. All-Wheel-Drive cars can use any (or all) of the wheels to transfer power from the engine to the road.
AWD helps with traction during acceleration because it can evenly distribute the power among all four wheels... reducing the amount of wheel slippage. It can also transfer the power that would normally go to a wheel that has no traction to a wheel that does have traction. This is very good news if you need quick, stable acceleration - or if you need to navigate through extreme conditions (once again, such as deep snow or offroading conditions).
What AWD does *NOT* help with is sliding. Most accidents on icy roads are due to cornering or slowing down - NOT accelerating. When there is no power being transferred to the wheels, then AWD makes no difference whatsoever. Instead one must rely on other technologies such as stability control, Anti-lock brakes, and advanced tire technologies (such as used in specific snow/ice tires). Sometimes advances in these technologies go hand-in-hand with cars that have AWD (Such as the Audi) but this has little to do with the actual AWD itself. Another thing people almost never mention is driving experience and driver's education. Personally I believe that a driver who knows how to handle a vehicle under adverse conditions will be MUCH more effective than any of these advanced technologies.
It is a common misconception that AWD/4WD vehicles are safer and handle better on snowy/icy roads. This is simply NOT TRUE! If anything else it often installs a false sense of security in the driver which can lead them to push the envelope too much and actually increase the risk of an accident. If your parents are considering an AWD vehicle based SOLELY on the presence of snow/ice on an interstate for a few months out of the year then they are most likely going to be sorely disappointed.
And as previously mentioned, AWD vehicles get less fuel economy than their Two-Wheel-Drive counterparts. Especially with the price of gas these days this can lead to them being significantly more expensive to operate. If money is an issue then perhaps your parents should consider purchasing a good set of snow/ice tires to use in the Winter months instead of purchasing a whole new car.
i think you already know this.....but there is NOTHING streetable that will drive on just ice. even the blizzak tires depend on that thin coating of water sitting atop the ice. :aok
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I'm sorry but we get 6 months a year in icy/snowy conditions down here and I drive 1000km a week in all weathers so I think I can speak from experience.
The safety comparison in extreme slick conditions:
First - get m+s rated tires for winter. This makes a HUGE difference in traction and safety in all cars. Cheapest life insurance you can get. Conti winter contact etc.
(http://i2.squidoocdn.com/resize/squidoo_images/-1/lens13544911_1284930001Continental_Wintercontact)
Second, ranking in snow goes like this worst to best:
RWD
FWD
AWD
AWD is simply superior because it can give you acceleration to take you out of harms way in interstates etc when you're about to be swiped by a semi for example. Or when you need passing performance on the road. The AWD makes the car run much more stable in ice grooves etc. giving a serious boost to drive comfort in long winter hauls. The myth about awd stopping worse is just that, a myth. If anything awd may fool the driver into thinking it's not so slippery and then surprise when braking - but an awd stops just as well as equally weighted 2wd car.
Older awd cars had major stability problems because the awd requires differentials in all axles and this can cause trouble when sliding (you're actually supposed to accelerate to get the wheels turning if they lock up, a feat unimaginable by a panicing woman) but modern traction control takes care of that. Most advanced traction controls can actually apply power to the wheels instead of just stupidly braking.
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Ford Fusion AWD or Taurus AWD
Then again... I am bias.
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actually, awd carsd are a bit better.
customer of mine has a wrx putting as little over 500hp to the tires. he LOVES driving that in the rain, and light snow. says it goes exactly where he points it, even when he's on the throttle.
True, awd will even be able to pull out of some slides if driven properly. But, and this is huge, the driver needs to be able to fight the desire to mash on the brakes or crank the wheel and instead, apply some light throttle so the tires can correct the vehicle. Most people just can't do it!
Case in point, we were traveling through the hills of PA last year around christmas, on a downhill with a left turn below, the logging truck in front of us started sliding on the hard packed snow covered street. I hit the brakes lightly and they just slid, the truck ended up sliding sideways into the ditch up against the rock wall but I was able to hit the gas, get the truck corrected and get around the corner ok.
The trucker waved us on as he knew there was nothing we could do to help, but my sister in the passenger seat, who's Ranger I was driving said that she never would have thought to hit the gas and probably would have ended up sliding in behind or into the truck.
Older awd cars had major stability problems because the awd requires differentials in all axles and this can cause trouble when sliding (you're actually supposed to accelerate to get the wheels turning if they lock up, a feat unimaginable by a panicing woman) but modern traction control takes care of that. Most advanced traction controls can actually apply power to the wheels instead of just stupidly braking.
This.
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True, awd will even be able to pull out of some slides if driven properly. But, and this is huge, the driver needs to be able to fight the desire to mash on the brakes or crank the wheel and instead, apply some light throttle so the tires can correct the vehicle. Most people just can't do it!
Case in point, we were traveling through the hills of PA last year around christmas, on a downhill with a left turn below, the logging truck in front of us started sliding on the hard packed snow covered street. I hit the brakes lightly and they just slid, the truck ended up sliding sideways into the ditch up against the rock wall but I was able to hit the gas, get the truck corrected and get around the corner ok.
The trucker waved us on as he knew there was nothing we could do to help, but my sister in the passenger seat, who's Ranger I was driving said that she never would have thought to hit the gas and probably would have ended up sliding in behind or into the truck.
This.
why i love RWD.
but i have FWD.. :cry
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IF you're in the usa, avoid audi at all cost. they suck here. they have non-stop problems, as could be attested to by the most recent customer of mine, whom i recommended he not buy his a6 quattro. it's a 2001 with only 101k on it.......and he's spent nearly 6k on it in the last 5 months. he's not the only one.
if you want a decent, reliable good awd car, go with a subaru. feel free to pm me with any questions. :aok
You do realize they don;t make the same car 10 years latter nor does it come out of the factory with only 101K miles on it right. Your one customer does not represent the universe.
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You do realize they don;t make the same car 10 years latter nor does it come out of the factory with only 101K miles on it right. Your one customer does not represent the universe.
got a buddy whose had issue after issue with his audi....
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why i love RWD.
but i have FWD.. :cry
Actually in that situation you'd be better off with FWD, you can apply a little acceleration to front wheels to break the deadlock after braking / sliding. With RWD if your front wheels deadlock you're pretty much a passenger at that point. Most you can do is turn your steering to the direction you hope to move and wait if the wheels start turning again and start steering you.
It requires a bit of practise but you can steer a fwd car only with throttle, keeping the steering wheel in one position. Or even apply left foot brake (hard on accelerator, left foot on brake to force back end into a slide in a corner like rally cars do) If you wish to play that is.
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got a buddy whose had issue after issue with his audi....
I can verify that too. Certain tiptronic transmissions (at least in the past) failed regularly with 3 years interval or 120 000km. A healthy 10 000 bucks to replace and dealer won't pay for it if you manage to get it past guarantee periods.
I was looking for an Audi when I was shopping for an AWD but a visit at the audi enthusiast forum made me back up softly...
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Actually in that situation you'd be better off with FWD, you can apply a little acceleration to front wheels to break the deadlock after braking / sliding. With RWD if your front wheels deadlock you're pretty much a passenger at that point. Most you can do is turn your steering to the direction you hope to move and wait if the wheels start turning again and start steering you.
It requires a bit of practise but you can steer a fwd car only with throttle, keeping the steering wheel in one position. Or even apply left foot brake (hard on accelerator, left foot on brake to force back end into a slide in a corner like rally cars do) If you wish to play that is.
i dont wanna to have to learn to do it when the time arises... ive played around in RWD's at parking lots for ghits and shigles. my car is sure footed, dont get me wrong...but id feel safer in a RWD..
preference.
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2 x 4
4 x 4
AWD
Traction Control
Which of the above can replace skill behind the wheel?
You may get going a bit better, but if the road is slick or icy, none of them will make a vehicle stop any easier. The easiest thing to do is to adjust one's driving to the road conditions.
A good set of tires never hurt anyone, though :devil
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/100_1704-1.jpg)
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2 x 4
4 x 4
AWD
Traction Control
Which of the above can replace skill behind the wheel?
You may get going a bit better, but if the road is slick or icy, none of them will make a vehicle stop any easier. The easiest thing to do is to adjust one's driving to the road conditions.
A good set of tires never hurt anyone, though :devil
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/100_1704-1.jpg)
get Nitto MudGrapplers.... look cooler and get you were you didnt know you could go...
:noid
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2 x 4
4 x 4
AWD
Traction Control
Which of the above can replace skill behind the wheel?
You may get going a bit better, but if the road is slick or icy, none of them will make a vehicle stop any easier. The easiest thing to do is to adjust one's driving to the road conditions.
A good set of tires never hurt anyone, though :devil
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/100_1704-1.jpg)
This is what I got:
(http://www.saitco.com/jeep/images/commander/snow.jpg)
Mercedes Benz engine and transmission (V6 diesel), built on MB factory in Austria.
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This is what I got:
(http://www.saitco.com/jeep/images/commander/snow.jpg)
Mercedes Benz engine and transmission (V6 diesel), built on MB factory in Austria.
jealous...would love a diesel.
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get Nitto MudGrapplers.... look cooler and get you were you didnt know you could go...
:noid
I've "gotten" further than lots of guys on the trail with stock tires. It's 80% skill, 20% equipment. I still do not have a lift, yet.
I prefer my tread life to last more than a year and the tires to not sing to me.
Especially at $250/tire.
Mud tires are good for one thing. Mud. Useless for the other 300 days/year.
The bottom line is that NOTHING will replace driver skill. Augment it or enhance it, perhaps but never replace it.
If one can't drive in inclement weather, all of the gadgets in the world wont help. In fact, it makes them more dangerous by giving them false confidence that they are "safer" on a vehicle equipped with such options.
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I prefer my tread life to last more than a year and the tires to not sing to me.
Especially at $250/tire.
Mud tires are good for one thing. Mud. Useless for the other 300 days/year.
The bottom line is that NOTHING will replace driver skill. Augment it or enhance it, perhaps but never replace it.
If one can't drive in inclement weather, all of the gadgets in the world wont help. In fact, it makes them more dangerous by giving them false confidence that they are "safer" on a vehicle equipped with such options. especially with females, and brainwashed new drivers.
+1
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This isn't my opinion, I'm quoting my mom:
"The AWD drivetrain improves traction by powering more wheels"
Is this the case, or is she just pulling this out of her butt?
-Penguin
4WD on slick icy roads is more dangerous. AWD systems in the newer vehicles are computer controlled to limit power to a wheel that is slipping.
In deep offroad ice and snow then 4WD is your friend.
As for tire wear.... regular rotation of your tires will get the most mileage. This is for any vehicle.... 2WD or 4WD. I use my second trip meter to track rotation mileage. Every 4000 miles I get them rotated. I drive a 2500 HD Diesel with larger tires and get great miles from my tires.
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4WD on slick icy roads is more dangerous. AWD systems in the newer vehicles are computer controlled to limit power to a wheel that is slipping.
In deep offroad ice and snow then 4WD is your friend.
As for tire wear.... regular rotation of your tires will get the most mileage. This is for any vehicle.... 2WD or 4WD. I use my second trip meter to track rotation mileage. Every 4000 miles I get them rotated. I drive a 2500 HD Diesel with larger tires and get great miles from my tires.
tire compound my friend.
if you geta performance tire (BFGoodrich GeForce Sport) its going to be significantly softer then an average tire. i dont know what you have on your 2500 for shoes, but being a truck, im guessing its a harder compound...unless you have all terrains or mud tires.
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Our old Honda Accord has nearly gotten my mom hurt on the highways a few times now, and the plan is to buy a sedan with AWD. We know next to nothing about cars, and would like to get some opinions on pitfalls to avoid when shopping around. Our current pick is an Audi A4, but perhaps you guys know something we don't.
-Penguin
I don't like Audi`s cause every 5th Car is not a Audi here
Congrats its very Safe fast and good Quality....
Audi DONT Cheap oil ore cheap parts
Have always a Wrinkle-free ride
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tire compound my friend.
if you geta performance tire (BFGoodrich GeForce Sport) its going to be significantly softer then an average tire. i dont know what you have on your 2500 for shoes, but being a truck, im guessing its a harder compound...unless you have all terrains or mud tires.
I had a PT Cruiser GT model (basically a SRT4 with a cruiser shell on it)
It came with Z rated tires on it. Soft as hell. Stuck to the road like it was on rails. As long as it was dry :noid
Put a hint of water on the road and they were useless. Tread life was for crap, also. They were summer tires so I had them on from May to September. I had them scrubbed down to nothing in a matter of two seasons.
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I had a PT Cruiser GT model (basically a SRT4 with a cruiser shell on it)
It came with Z rated tires on it. Soft as hell. Stuck to the road like it was on rails. As long as it was dry :noid
Put a hint of water on the road and they were useless. Tread life was for crap, also. They were summer tires so I had them on from May to September. I had them scrubbed down to nothing in a matter of two seasons.
i got the BFGoodrish GeForce sports, think its a w rating (heard theres like no difference bewtween W,X,Y and Z rating), stick to the road like, as you say, its on rails. wet or dry. hair pins at 45...while the roads are damp. lucky no one came round that corner :lol
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tire compound my friend.
if you geta performance tire (BFGoodrich GeForce Sport) its going to be significantly softer then an average tire. i dont know what you have on your 2500 for shoes, but being a truck, im guessing its a harder compound...unless you have all terrains or mud tires.
In all cases... rotation will make them last much longer......
my tires....
Toyo Open Country 37 13.5 R22 LT
http://www.tiresdirect.net/TOYO_Open_Country_MT_37X13_50R_P2106C176.cfm (http://www.tiresdirect.net/TOYO_Open_Country_MT_37X13_50R_P2106C176.cfm)
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actually, awd carsd are a bit better.
customer of mine has a wrx putting as little over 500hp to the tires. he LOVES driving that in the rain, and light snow. says it goes exactly where he points it, even when he's on the throttle.
It's difficult for me to convey my intended angle on AWD here properly. Closest is to Tigger's post, it's always more about the driver than the vehicle or its capabilities, AWD is a great tool to have in a driver's bag of tricks for hazardous road conditions, but it is not an end-all to it and comes with it's own quirks that a driver should be educated/trained on to use safely. In Penguin's case I too am wondering if making the huge AWD purchase will leave them disapointed since maybe a set of good winter tires on the accord might make his mom just as happy...
That said, my mother has an AWD CRV that we love and trade for taking to our family cabin in the winter because of the AWD. Would I opt for taking any other 2WD vehicle we have over it in the winter? No. The thing is a blast!... but you have to learn/be-trained in how to use it best/safely in the hazerdous snow/ice conditions. Primary thing being to go slower than sorry. The AWD makes it too easy to get going on a road surface that will throw you off the side of a curve or nose-first into a wall/tree if you're not careful.
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You guys know a great deal about automobiles, keep going, this is great!
-Penguin
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kept properly rotated, aligned and assuming normal driving habits awd won't hurt your tires that bad. the pitfall is that on some models, you cannot replace only 1 or 2 at a time...some models, you have to do 4 or none.
Yup, with us doing the best we can with roation and maintanance of our tires, we still have to replace all 4 at the same time after a little more than two years about give or take a couple months.
Hot topic today, ain't it?
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In all cases... rotation will make them last much longer......
my tires....
Toyo Open Country 37 13.5 R22 LT
http://www.tiresdirect.net/TOYO_Open_Country_MT_37X13_50R_P2106C176.cfm (http://www.tiresdirect.net/TOYO_Open_Country_MT_37X13_50R_P2106C176.cfm)
interesting. what kind of rims?
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American Racing Forged Series 22 x 12
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q96/Shuff_photos/Mmytruck.jpg)
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q96/Shuff_photos/045.jpg)
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I'm sorry but we get 6 months a year in icy/snowy conditions down here and I drive 1000km a week in all weathers so I think I can speak from experience.
The safety comparison in extreme slick conditions:
First - get m+s rated tires for winter. This makes a HUGE difference in traction and safety in all cars. Cheapest life insurance you can get. Conti winter contact etc.
(http://i2.squidoocdn.com/resize/squidoo_images/-1/lens13544911_1284930001Continental_Wintercontact)
Second, ranking in snow goes like this worst to best:
RWD
FWD
AWD
AWD is simply superior because it can give you acceleration to take you out of harms way in interstates etc when you're about to be swiped by a semi for example. Or when you need passing performance on the road. The AWD makes the car run much more stable in ice grooves etc. giving a serious boost to drive comfort in long winter hauls. The myth about awd stopping worse is just that, a myth. If anything awd may fool the driver into thinking it's not so slippery and then surprise when braking - but an awd stops just as well as equally weighted 2wd car.
Older awd cars had major stability problems because the awd requires differentials in all axles and this can cause trouble when sliding (you're actually supposed to accelerate to get the wheels turning if they lock up, a feat unimaginable by a panicing woman) but modern traction control takes care of that. Most advanced traction controls can actually apply power to the wheels instead of just stupidly braking.
Can not agree with you any more.
Funny story two winters ago (funny because the only casualties were a 4-foot tall pine sapling and a scuff to the bumper), my parents were vacationing at the cabin and my mom ran to town in my dad's truck (RWD) for groceries. Before she left she unfortunatley removed the four sacks of weathered concrete we had in the back over the tires, not knowing any better (she was born, raised, and learned to drive in New Jersey, so derned if I know what she was thinking). On her way back a blizzard rolled in and she suddenly drove the truck off the road on a bend and into a snow bank and pine sapling, so there was no damage but it was stuck. Neighbor happened by shortly and kept her warm with her car while calling us to let us know and she got winched out about an hour later (afterwards, the tow truck driver helped her load some rocks into the back over the tires, lol). She understands now to load it up with rocks or any other deadweight in the back if it's going to be icy/snowing while driving the truck.
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American Racing Forged Series 22 x 12
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q96/Shuff_photos/Mmytruck.jpg)
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q96/Shuff_photos/045.jpg)
very nice setup.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1697071021157&set=a.1402408574780.2055567.1069311485&type=1&theater
my brothers truck.
picture isnt on my computer, and im not taking the time to comb through his pictures unless you cant view it. otherwise it would be a photobucket.
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haha Glad she was not hurt. A lesson learned. :)
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American Racing Forged Series 22 x 12
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q96/Shuff_photos/Mmytruck.jpg)
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q96/Shuff_photos/045.jpg)
I would just love to have THAT MUCH tread on ice/snow. I'm jealous.
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haha Glad she was not hurt. A lesson learned. :)
She didn't even have to get cold waiting for the truck to winch her out thanks to another neighbor heading from town and back home before the storm really hit... so the whole episode is just endless fodder for us to prod her and her NJ-bred extreme-weather-handling birthright with.
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very nice setup.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1697071021157&set=a.1402408574780.2055567.1069311485&type=1&theater
my brothers truck.
picture isnt on my computer, and im not taking the time to comb through his pictures unless you cant view it. otherwise it would be a photobucket.
It's ok... facebook is useless for the public. Only works for those who use it. :)
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KMC XD Hoss Serious rims (18 X 12) wrapped in Nitto MudGrapplers 35X18X12.5.
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KMC XD Hoss Serious rims (18 X 12) wrapped in Nitto MudGrapplers 35X18X12.5.
Ahhh nitto s are good. I had some on this truck but a street type. The sidewalls were so short you needed a kidney belt to ride very far. lol
I had the company that makes my shocks setup the front ones 40% stiffer to keep from a multishock setup. Then in the back I have airbags for leveling when pulling heavy.
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sounds nice. how much hauling you do with her?
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Best snow car I ever drove was a chrysler K car wagon with 185/80 r13 michelins.
It would drive until snow piled up in front of it so...I would back up and go around the drift and continue up the unplowed road.
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I'd have to dig up the details on them, but I splooged for my mother's birthday about 5 years ago for some really nice premium all-purpose Michelins on the AWD CRV I was just talking about (this was less than two-months after she went off the road into the snow bank in the truck, so I was going for a road safety theme). Worst tires ever (and you're talking to a guy that buys the cheapest made in korea tires for my old daily drivers), by manufacturer defect in the rubber formula. They were fine for that winter and first 6 weeks, but had to get them _all_ replaced 6 months later as they had gone bald... Worst part was it was their defect and I had to pay for it, after two years fighting with them I gave up and can only pitch my sob story and try to steer as much buisness away from them that I can.
Edit: I think they had less than 8k miles on them... I'd have to dig up my old file on it at home later to get the nity grity on them.
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Ford Fusion AWD or Taurus AWD
Then again... I am bias.
THE town where my shop is is supposed to be getting 6 of the supercharged tauruses, and 6 non.....but i think the officer i was speaking with did say they're all gonna be awd.
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True, awd will even be able to pull out of some slides if driven properly. But, and this is huge, the driver needs to be able to fight the desire to mash on the brakes or crank the wheel and instead, apply some light throttle so the tires can correct the vehicle. Most people just can't do it!
Case in point, we were traveling through the hills of PA last year around christmas, on a downhill with a left turn below, the logging truck in front of us started sliding on the hard packed snow covered street. I hit the brakes lightly and they just slid, the truck ended up sliding sideways into the ditch up against the rock wall but I was able to hit the gas, get the truck corrected and get around the corner ok.
The trucker waved us on as he knew there was nothing we could do to help, but my sister in the passenger seat, who's Ranger I was driving said that she never would have thought to hit the gas and probably would have ended up sliding in behind or into the truck.
This.
funny you say that....cause i'm a cocky bastage. many many cars out there(nearly all of em actually) can outperform my dakota in pretty much every way. yet, i find myself able to outperform nearly anyone in nearly any car. why? because they don't have a friggin clue how to actually USE their car. :devil
the way you mentioned driving out of a slide......i was doing that back in the 80's when i had my lifted chevy 4x4. had to do it a couple times with my jeep this past winter.
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You do realize they don;t make the same car 10 years latter nor does it come out of the factory with only 101K miles on it right. Your one customer does not represent the universe.
true, but when i talk with other audi owners, and hear the very same thing, over the years....that does.
so, that's a nearly 30 year run of hearing/seeing/fixing things on these POS's that shouldn't be bad at that point.
you should realize by now, i don't say stuff like that due to only my opinion, but rather i say stuff like that due to my experiences. :aok
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2 x 4
4 x 4
AWD
Traction Control
Which of the above can replace skill behind the wheel?
You may get going a bit better, but if the road is slick or icy, none of them will make a vehicle stop any easier. The easiest thing to do is to adjust one's driving to the road conditions.
A good set of tires never hurt anyone, though :devil
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/100_1704-1.jpg)
none of the above. i like the idea of awd, but to be honest, they're all crutches, and generally driven by non-drivers.
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i'm gonna toss a reminder out here. someone up the page a bit mentioned awd being more dangerous on ice.
do you all realize that you cannot drive a roadworthy car on just ice?
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THE town where my shop is is supposed to be getting 6 of the supercharged tauruses, and 6 non.....but i think the officer i was speaking with did say they're all gonna be awd.
Supercharged??? Don't you mean twin turbo SHOs?
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Supercharged??? Don't you mean twin turbo SHOs?
Shwing! Wonder what that's gonna get per gallon ontop of the AWD package... :devil
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Shwing! Wonder what that's gonna get per gallon ontop of the AWD package... :devil
Eco-Boost engines get very good MPG.
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Cap? Are you a one man racing club?
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Yup, with us doing the best we can with roation and maintanance of our tires, we still have to replace all 4 at the same time after a little more than two years about give or take a couple months.
Hot topic today, ain't it?
uh huh.
some of the AWD cars, you don't have to do all 4 at once though. i think the honda pilot is one of htose, although i'm not sure.
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comes with it's own quirks that a driver should be educated/trained on to use safely. I
sorry to hack your post up.......but the lack of the above sentence, is in all actuality the cause of at least 90% of the so-called accidents on our roadways.
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Can not agree with you any more.
Funny story two winters ago (funny because the only casualties were a 4-foot tall pine sapling and a scuff to the bumper), my parents were vacationing at the cabin and my mom ran to town in my dad's truck (RWD) for groceries. Before she left she unfortunatley removed the four sacks of weathered concrete we had in the back over the tires, not knowing any better (she was born, raised, and learned to drive in New Jersey, so derned if I know what she was thinking). On her way back a blizzard rolled in and she suddenly drove the truck off the road on a bend and into a snow bank and pine sapling, so there was no damage but it was stuck. Neighbor happened by shortly and kept her warm with her car while calling us to let us know and she got winched out about an hour later (afterwards, the tow truck driver helped her load some rocks into the back over the tires, lol). She understands now to load it up with rocks or any other deadweight in the back if it's going to be icy/snowing while driving the truck.
we can go years without a major snowstorm here, so it is possible that she never experienced bad snow. glad she wasn't hurt.
i learned to drive on a 67 mustang, and a 71 ford station wagon. used to take both of them to empty parking lots, doing donuts, and generally being a stupid kid(cause i'm invincible and all) throwing those cars around.
the funny thing is, that it got to a point where i actually couldn't get a good fun spin from either of them, as i was correcting without realizing i was. used to do the same with an old boss's ford superduty tow truck, and once or twice with his UD rollback. rollbacks are funny when you do that....friggin sloooooowwwwwwwww motion.
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bbs burp
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bbs burp again
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Supercharged??? Don't you mean twin turbo SHOs?
yea.......that's what i meant.........i got shelby on the brain. :devil
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Cap? Are you a one man racing club?
not really. i just still drive most of my stuff hard. hell....i even beat the poop outta my prism when i drive that.
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uh huh.
some of the AWD cars, you don't have to do all 4 at once though. i think the honda pilot is one of htose, although i'm not sure.
If you try to maximise the life you get from a set of four tires you have to rotate them regularly on the AWD CRVs you get over two years outa them, but the end result being time to replace all 4 tires at the same time. Too late in the day for me trying to figure this math out, but we figured we were going through about 2 tires every single year without rotation (AWD sends most the power most of the time to just two wheels, but it would also start breaking in the back ones so when it was their turn up front they'd only last a year at best), but with rotation and evenly wearing down all 4 you get over 2.5 years.
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If you try to maximise the life you get from a set of four tires you have to rotate them regularly on the AWD CRVs you get over two years outa them, but the end result being time to replace all 4 tires at the same time. Too late in the day for me trying to figure this math out, but we figured we were going through about 2 tires every single year without rotation (AWD sends most the power most of the time to just two wheels, but it would also start breaking in the back ones so when it was their turn up front they'd only last a year at best), but with rotation and evenly wearing down all 4 you get over 2.5 years.
if it helps you any........presuming oil changes every 3,000 miles.....rotate your tires every second oil change, or 6,000 miles. i've been doing it that way for years on customers cars, and it seems to work very very well for them. :aok
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if it helps you any........presuming oil changes every 3,000 miles.....rotate your tires every second oil change, or 6,000 miles. i've been doing it that way for years on customers cars, and it seems to work very very well for them. :aok
i would do that..except i dont have the money to bring it to a shop and have them switched around...theyre directional. hard to put the left rear on the right front, and visa verse without a mounting machine :cry
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i would do that..except i dont have the money to bring it to a shop and have them switched around...theyre directional. hard to put the left rear on the right front, and visa verse without a mounting machine :cry
forget crossing them, even for non-directionals. just move em straight from one end to the other. :aok
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Yep...cross rotating is way overrated and begat's far more pulls after a simple rotation than just swapping back to front.
Sadly, many newer rear drive cars have different size tires front and rear so you end up with tire noise before they are worn down no matter how often you align the car.
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i'm gonna toss a reminder out here. someone up the page a bit mentioned awd being more dangerous on ice.
do you all realize that you cannot drive a roadworthy car on just ice?
Dude that's a load of crap. How are people driving on ice roads daily (read: roads made on frozen lakes or sea)? Sure it's a bit slippery but with winter tires you get enough grip. Forget about summer tires though. I drive above the arctic circle regularly and roads there are frozen 100% solid. I'm making 60mph top speeds on them, sometimes even faster.
An AWD is superior in every way on winter conditions. Of course it won't make you corner any better (you'd have to be a retard to speed in a bend at winter anyway) but the sheer acceleration on ice/snow is what it's all about. When I was driving my rwd e-mercedes passing trucks was like this:
Turn on turning signal. Push gas moderately. See traction control flash while passing outside the drive track (usually snowy, mounds of ice). No acceleration basically, any more push on the gas results in wheel spin @ 50mph - too much push on the gas can actually lead to slowing down because ASR will really kick in. Not possible to accelerate much at all while turning steering even slightly, will attempt to slide despite ASR/ESP due to tires sliding sideways on tire grooves in ice. Takes an eternity to pass an 18-wheeler. Especially if oncoming traffic appears through the pitch dark DAY and powder snow the 18-wheeler pulls up.
With the Jeep it's like this:
Turn on turning signal. Smash the accelerator. Get almost summer level acceleration with a couple traction control light flashes, control limits on the engine power to stop the little wheel spin but the car still accelerates good. Pass confidently and rigorously. I can tell you that a 500 mile trip on pure snow/ice surface is about 80% more relaxing with AWD compared to the RWD.
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Traction control on a Jeep?
Sounds like sex after you've double-wrapped it... :noid
Where is the fun in that?
I firmly believe that to drive in inclement weather/hazardous road conditions, one must have a separate endorsement on one's license. Just like a CDL or motorcycle.
Same for trailering. Most average folks haven't the faintest clue how to drive a vehicle with a wagon attached.
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Dude that's a load of crap. How are people driving on ice roads daily (read: roads made on frozen lakes or sea)? Sure it's a bit slippery but with winter tires you get enough grip. Forget about summer tires though. I drive above the arctic circle regularly and roads there are frozen 100% solid. I'm making 60mph top speeds on them, sometimes even faster.
An AWD is superior in every way on winter conditions. Of course it won't make you corner any better (you'd have to be a retard to speed in a bend at winter anyway) but the sheer acceleration on ice/snow is what it's all about. When I was driving my rwd e-mercedes passing trucks was like this:
Turn on turning signal. Push gas moderately. See traction control flash while passing outside the drive track (usually snowy, mounds of ice). No acceleration basically, any more push on the gas results in wheel spin @ 50mph - too much push on the gas can actually lead to slowing down because ASR will really kick in. Not possible to accelerate much at all while turning steering even slightly, will attempt to slide despite ASR/ESP due to tires sliding sideways on tire grooves in ice. Takes an eternity to pass an 18-wheeler. Especially if oncoming traffic appears through the pitch dark DAY and powder snow the 18-wheeler pulls up.
With the Jeep it's like this:
Turn on turning signal. Smash the accelerator. Get almost summer level acceleration with a couple traction control light flashes, control limits on the engine power to stop the little wheel spin but the car still accelerates good. Pass confidently and rigorously. I can tell you that a 500 mile trip on pure snow/ice surface is about 80% more relaxing with AWD compared to the RWD.
how? the tires grab onto that very thin layer of water that's on the ice...
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how? the tires grab onto that very thin layer of water that's on the ice...
Not true. Water on ice makes the surface as slippery as it gets. You're confusing winter tires with ice skates, the blade of an ice skate melts micro portion of ice and slides smoothly on the melted water :)
If winter tires would do that the car would slide like it was on skates. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_skating
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Not true. Water on ice makes the surface as slippery as it gets. You're confusing winter tires with ice skates, the blade of an ice skate melts micro portion of ice and slides smoothly on the melted water :)
If winter tires would do that the car would slide like it was on skates. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_skating
ok...i may be partially wrong.....
The tread compound of Bridgestone Blizzak winter tires is more pliable than traditional tires, and remains flexible in cold temperatures. When water freezes to ice, tiny irregularities form on the surface. If the tread compound is rigid, the tire will tend to slide across these irregularities. Flexible tread compounds incorporated into Blizzak winter tires “dig into” jagged surfaces, providing drivers better control of their vehicle.
now, go try to drive your car on a hockey rink, and come back here, telling us how that went. :devil
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ok...i may be partially wrong.....
The tread compound of Bridgestone Blizzak winter tires is more pliable than traditional tires, and remains flexible in cold temperatures. When water freezes to ice, tiny irregularities form on the surface. If the tread compound is rigid, the tire will tend to slide across these irregularities. Flexible tread compounds incorporated into Blizzak winter tires “dig into” jagged surfaces, providing drivers better control of their vehicle.
now, go try to drive your car on a hockey rink, and come back here, telling us how that went. :devil
I've done that plenty of times. But here in finland we use studded winter tires ;)
It's true that studless tires lose almost all traction on smooth ice surface. Smooth ice alone is not that bad yet but if there's a bit of melted water on top it's slide time. That's why studded tires are so popular down here - and they have to side effect of roughing the ice for studless drivers, too. But boy do they eat up asphalt.
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I've done that plenty of times. But here in finland we use studded winter tires ;)
It's true that studless tires lose almost all traction on smooth ice surface. That's why studded tires are so popular down here - and they have to side effect of roughing the ice for studless drivers, too. But boy do they eat up asphalt.
They make great sparks when pulling a hole-shot, too :aok
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Traction control on a Jeep?
With 376 foot pounds of torque at 1700rpm that thing comes handy.
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Mitsubishi Lancer Evo.
Last time I checked they're available with up to 400HP.
Heres a video of jeremy clarkson racing the top end Lamborghini in one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ees2aZcDUn8
James May racing a bobsled in one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKgaXwO8Ao
And Jeremy again racing the British army's new toys in one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5rRY2ICT4k&playnext=1&list=PL4C3E254B9AA47D94
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Cape mentioned tire compound and is correct.
Tire compound is king when it comes to ice driving.
I drove a 280zx turbo home from work on a day that freezing rain froze on the ground to the point that people were sliding down hills sideways after they tried to turn around but my car, which is known for being the worst possible ice car, drove easily with amazing traction.
I had put some barely dot legal race tires from a SCCA improved touring 240z on it just to see how the wheels looked and the super soft compound of the nearly completely bald tires gripped amazingly.
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I've done that plenty of times. But here in finland we use studded winter tires ;)
It's true that studless tires lose almost all traction on smooth ice surface. Smooth ice alone is not that bad yet but if there's a bit of melted water on top it's slide time. That's why studded tires are so popular down here - and they have to side effect of roughing the ice for studless drivers, too. But boy do they eat up asphalt.
i wish we were still allowed studded tires here in nj. they're only allowed a couple months of the year......
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Cape mentioned tire compound and is correct.
Tire compound is king when it comes to ice driving.
I drove a 280zx turbo home from work on a day that freezing rain froze on the ground to the point that people were sliding down hills sideways after they tried to turn around but my car, which is known for being the worst possible ice car, drove easily with amazing traction.
I had put some barely dot legal race tires from a SCCA improved touring 240z on it just to see how the wheels looked and the super soft compound of the nearly completely bald tires gripped amazingly.
funny you say that.......when i still had my 12 second mustang, it sucked in the snow.......except on the bfgoodrich drag radials. in snow, and rain, those things made that car a whole new animal.
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Cape mentioned tire compound and is correct.
Tire compound is king when it comes to ice driving.
I drove a 280zx turbo home from work on a day that freezing rain froze on the ground to the point that people were sliding down hills sideways after they tried to turn around but my car, which is known for being the worst possible ice car, drove easily with amazing traction.
I had put some barely dot legal race tires from a SCCA improved touring 240z on it just to see how the wheels looked and the super soft compound of the nearly completely bald tires gripped amazingly.
You show me a compound that grips ice and I'll mow the lawn in my wife's best sunday dress.
The only tires that grip on actual ice are Studded ones or a set with chains.
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i wish we were still allowed studded tires here in nj. they're only allowed a couple months of the year......
Same here. Every November it's tire change time and then again around april. Most people have 2 sets of wheels and tires. I'm still driving on my m+s because they were already so worn out that I couldn't use them another winter anyway. The Jeep eats rubber quite a lot.
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You show me a compound that grips ice and I'll mow the lawn in my wife's best sunday dress.
The only tires that grip on actual ice are Studded ones or a set with chains.
those blizzaks i mentioned.........a local firestone rep took a couple cars.....one rwd, one fwd about 6 or 7 years ago....and drove them both on hockey rinks. easily. :aok
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With 376 foot pounds of torque at 1700rpm that thing comes handy.
For the masses, I guess it fits perfectly
Retarded engine timing for retarded drivers... :noid
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sounds nice. how much hauling you do with her?
22' goose and a 28' goose both floats and a 24' goose lowboy for the 4WDs and tractor. I've had pipe, plate, cones, reactors.... you name it, on the trailers. lol
It sits to high for the 32' Holiday Rambler so that is pulled with a ford 2500 that sits stock.
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For the masses, I guess it fits perfectly
Retarded engine timing for retarded drivers... :noid
Uhh you might want to read up on turbodiesels a little rofl.
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On the new multicammed engines the computer phases the cams for smooth idle and adjusts as needed for performance... be it gas mileage or hp.
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On the new multicammed engines the computer phases the cams for smooth idle and adjusts as needed for performance... be it gas mileage or hp.
and the computer will also close the throttle when it deems necessary.
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Uhh you might want to read up on turbodiesels a little rofl.
I wasn't referring to your vehicle, specifically.
My father has been the service manager at an International dealer for ~30 years. I was raised in a Diesel shop :rock
I meant the run-of-the-mill/average Joe vehicles around here. Remember, Diesel's haven't enjoyed the popularity in the States that they have elsewhere.
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I wasn't referring to your vehicle, specifically.
My father has been the service manager at an International dealer for ~30 years. I was raised in a Diesel shop :rock
I meant the run-of-the-mill/average Joe vehicles around here. Remember, Diesel's haven't enjoyed the popularity in the States that they have elsewhere.
I don't consider traction control a bad thing or limiting, far from it. It's a comfort feature - you don't have to constantly think about throttle, just apply it. 8 hours on the wheel, on ice is tough enough without extra hassle.
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I don't consider traction control a bad thing or limiting, far from it. It's a comfort feature - you don't have to constantly think about throttle, just apply it. 8 hours on the wheel, on ice is tough enough without extra hassle.
It's nice to have if you already know how to drive in bad weather.
It is a dangerous crutch for those with no clue. Again, I will cite a false sense of security it gives about road conditions to the inexperienced.
Being able to "go" better on snow/ice, does NOT go hand-in-hand with being able to "stop" in the same conditions.
As long as they stay away from me, while I'm on the road I don't care.
I made plenty of cash last winter winching those pistonheads out of ditches :aok
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22' goose and a 28' goose both floats and a 24' goose lowboy for the 4WDs and tractor. I've had pipe, plate, cones, reactors.... you name it, on the trailers. lol
It sits to high for the 32' Holiday Rambler so that is pulled with a ford 2500 that sits stock.
Diesel power. gotta love it. not a Chevy fan, or GMC fan, nor their Duramax engines, but a diesel is a diesel.
It's nice to have if you already know how to drive in bad weather.
It is a dangerous crutch for those with no clue. Again, I will cite a false sense of security it gives about road conditions to the inexperienced.
Being able to "go" better on snow/ice, does NOT go hand-in-hand with being able to "stop" in the same conditions.
As long as they stay away from me, while I'm on the road I don't care.
I made plenty of cash last winter winching those pistonheads out of ditches :aok
+1. TCS are great...if you can drive it. same with AWD. I would much rather have a rear-wheel drive with weight over my axle and a good set of snow tires then an all wheel drive on ice or snow.
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the inherrent problem with these safety features....such as traction control, abs, auto stop, lane holding, sleep alerting, etc, is that people are not using them as they were intended.
these features are being used as crutches. people are braking later(especially girls), they're getting in their cars when they're too tired, and depending on the car to steer them straight, they're driving in conditions that they shouldn't be out in, and in none of these situations are the safety features intended to replace your own driving skill or knowledge. these things are meant to be there, and in theory, never need to be used....but they are there if you have an "oops" moment.
with these things, a lot of people aren't taking the time to teach their kids the basic skills that they should have when they drive. when you see a kid driving a honda accord, and he or she takes a turn pretty much the same way a 53 foot tractor/trailer would take it.....there's something wrong there.
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Diesel power. gotta love it. not a Chevy fan, or GMC fan, nor their Duramax engines, but a diesel is a diesel.
+1. TCS are great...if you can drive it. same with AWD. I would much rather have a rear-wheel drive with weight over my axle and a good set of snow tires then an all wheel drive on ice or snow.
nah....diesels aren't all equal anymore. the 7.3 in the fords used to be a VERY nice, and dependable engine. not since ford effed with it.
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nah....diesels aren't all equal anymore. the 7.3 in the fords used to be a VERY nice, and dependable engine. not since ford effed with it.
+1
dad has 2000 F250 with a 7.3 in it. Im a Cummins nut, but his 7.3 will haul with the best of them equal torque. got a shop near me, one of the mechanics was workin on a 7.3 with 1,000,000 miles. Injector pump was still factory and had not an issue with it. of course, everything else was replaced..but when i see a Cummins or a Duramax do that I'll be amazed.
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the inherrent problem with these safety features....such as traction control, abs, auto stop, lane holding, sleep alerting, etc, is that people are not using them as they were intended.
these features are being used as crutches. people are braking later(especially girls), they're getting in their cars when they're too tired, and depending on the car to steer them straight, they're driving in conditions that they shouldn't be out in, and in none of these situations are the safety features intended to replace your own driving skill or knowledge. these things are meant to be there, and in theory, never need to be used....but they are there if you have an "oops" moment.
with these things, a lot of people aren't taking the time to teach their kids the basic skills that they should have when they drive. when you see a kid driving a honda accord, and he or she takes a turn pretty much the same way a 53 foot tractor/trailer would take it.....there's something wrong there.
What really cracks me up is the cars that park themselves. :rofl
If you can't parallel park, you shouldn't have passed you driver's test. You should also not own a car in the city, or not such a big one at the very least.
Same goes for the truck drivers. I have at least one delivery driver per week come in here and say "You want me to back this into where?!?!"
If you can't back your wagon up to a loading dock with 2' clearance on either side, you don't belong driving it.
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All I can say is, public transportation FTW!
-Penguin
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What really cracks me up is the cars that park themselves. :rofl
If you can't parallel park, you shouldn't have passed you driver's test. You should also not own a car in the city, or not such a big one at the very least.
Same goes for the truck drivers. I have at least one delivery driver per week come in here and say "You want me to back this into where?!?!"
If you can't back your wagon up to a loading dock with 2' clearance on either side, you don't belong driving it.
i forgot about the self parking, and you're right.
i did tires on a customers bmw x5 i think it was....the suv thing. backing out of the bay, sounded like i was being attacked by tie fighters. different tones from different directions as i got near the door....... :rofl
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the inherrent problem with these safety features....such as traction control, abs, auto stop, lane holding, sleep alerting, etc, is that people are not using them as they were intended.
these features are being used as crutches. people are braking later(especially girls), they're getting in their cars when they're too tired, and depending on the car to steer them straight, they're driving in conditions that they shouldn't be out in, and in none of these situations are the safety features intended to replace your own driving skill or knowledge. these things are meant to be there, and in theory, never need to be used....but they are there if you have an "oops" moment.
with these things, a lot of people aren't taking the time to teach their kids the basic skills that they should have when they drive. when you see a kid driving a honda accord, and he or she takes a turn pretty much the same way a 53 foot tractor/trailer would take it.....there's something wrong there.
OK CAP, how do you know all this? I mean, given that you don;t know a lot of stuff in your field (like tires griping water, gas being a naturally cold liquid, etc), how did you gain knowledge about how people are driving their cars? Forgive me but when you make stupid statements like that, followed by "people are braking later(especially girls)", I have to ask. Where did you learn all this? Have you ran a lot of breaking reaction tests between girls and men in these new cars? I understand you are scared of what you don't understand (computers and anything new it appears). Why not just spend some time to figure out how they work? Just because something does not need a screw driver, it does not mean it is evil :rofl
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OK CAP, how do you know all this? I mean, given that you don;t know a lot of stuff in your field (like tires griping water, gas being a naturally cold liquid, etc), how did you gain knowledge about how people are driving their cars? Forgive me but when you make stupid statements like that, followed by "people are braking later(especially girls)", I have to ask. Where did you learn all this? Have you ran a lot of breaking reaction tests between girls and men in these new cars? I understand you are scared of what you don't understand (computers and anything new it appears). Why not just spend some time to figure out how they work? Just because something does not need a screw driver, it does not mean it is evil :rofl
I'll be caps ankle humper... proven fact that woman are in more accidents. I drive with my female friends and im scared for my life...i drive with my male friends im comfortable. I have a police scanner at my house (on the fire department) when theres a car accident mosty every single one has a female operator, and is a newer car that has all these fancy things in em. it isnt assumption, its common sense....
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All I can say is, public transportation FTW!
-Penguin
in areas like center city philly.....walk or ride a bicycle. cars are hard as hell in that city. it's actually faster to walk sometimes. parking is pure hell.
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I'll be caps ankle humper... proven fact that woman are in more accidents. I drive with my female friends and im scared for my life...i drive with my male friends im comfortable. I have a police scanner at my house (on the fire department) when theres a car accident mosty every single one has a female operator, and is a newer car that has all these fancy things in em. it isnt assumption, its common sense....
From my research, I've gathered that it's not exactly the case the women are always more likely to be in an accident:
From ages 16-24, males are much more likely to be involved in a crash
From ages 25-35, the risk is the same
From ages 35+, women are somewhat more likely to be in a crash (this is per-mile)
However, men are three times more likely to die when they crash.
-Penguin
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From my research, I've gathered that it's not exactly the case the women are always more likely to be in an accident:
From ages 16-24, males are much more likely to be involved in a crash
From ages 25-35, the risk is the same
From ages 35+, women are somewhat more likely to be in a crash (this is per-mile)
However, men are three times more likely to die when they crash.
-Penguin
people are going to say "its because you dontwear your seatbelt!"...ive been in 3 accidents (as a passenger, not a driver) and all three would have been a little more negative if i had a seat belt on. im not saying their bad, and you probably should wear them...but i dont. have a friend who was driving with his girlfriend. seatbelt is what killed her. he hit a tree (he was going to fast for the turn), he tried to undo her seatbelt... cops even said she would have lived if she didnt have her seat belt on.
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Ok, and think of all the people who die with their seatbelts off. Think of all those people who fly through windshields and have to get their faces peeled off the pavement. Think of all those people. The seatbelt greatly reduced fatalities among those in accidents, along with tempered glass and crumple zones.
-Penguin
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OK CAP, how do you know all this? I mean, given that you don;t know a lot of stuff in your field (like tires griping water, gas being a naturally cold liquid, etc), how did you gain knowledge about how people are driving their cars? Forgive me but when you make stupid statements like that, followed by "people are braking later(especially girls)", I have to ask. Where did you learn all this? Have you ran a lot of breaking reaction tests between girls and men in these new cars? I understand you are scared of what you don't understand (computers and anything new it appears). Why not just spend some time to figure out how they work? Just because something does not need a screw driver, it does not mean it is evil :rofl
guess what? from customers again. and from simply observing how people drive.
when your customers daughter has their car towed in, and the first words out of her mouth were "the abs didn't work"......whelp....that says a lot. why? because the abs shouldn't HAVE to work. it's not there to work. it's there for emergencies.
i'm kinda confused how you think i don't understand computers, seeing as i diagnose them every day at work.
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However, men are three times more likely to die when they crash.
We even crash better than women! :neener:
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Ok, and think of all the people who die with their seatbelts off. Think of all those people who fly through windshields and have to get their faces peeled off the pavement. Think of all those people. The seatbelt greatly reduced fatalities among those in accidents, along with tempered glass and crumple zones.
-Penguin
a 50/50 chance of surviving a fatal accident is not a "great reduction" in fatalities. i know of 4 accidents in my area that were fatal. in 3 of them i know seatbelts were involved, the 4th im not sure of. thats a 75% chance there that seatbelts didnt do their job as theyre hyped up to be... one of them was a car making a uturn (didnt check both sides) and got hit by another car ~50mph, another one was a head on in a 55 mph zone (110, not much saving you....), my friends girlfriend as mentioned was a third, and a teacher at my school rolled his "smart" car and killed himself. I would say he wqas wearing a seatbelt though.
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guess what? from customers again. and from simply observing how people drive.
when your customers daughter has their car towed in, and the first words out of her mouth were "the abs didn't work"......whelp....that says a lot. why? because the abs shouldn't HAVE to work. it's not there to work. it's there for emergencies.
i'm kinda confused how you think i don't understand computers, seeing as i diagnose them every day at work.
:rofl wait, that is how you determined women are slow to the breaks? That scenario you just described must happen a lot eh? And they all have the same excuse :rofl Did she also say the breaks were slow? :rofl I call BS.
Second, the ABS is there not for emergencies, but to work all the time in order to avoid emergencies. I guess another thing in your field you don't understand. A lot of "big" men make the mistake to think they can do a better job at stopping a car but they forget that they have no idea what the tires are on when they hit the breaks nor do they know the exact condition of their tires. Even knowing all that, they have no clue how much pressure on the breaks it too much simply because emergencies don;t happen that often (not to mention that your reflexes take over) . The ABS takes care of all that for you so you don;t have to pump your breaks. It is the difference between "thinking" you know and you can do a better job and actually doing the job in that situation. I am sure you think you can do a better job.
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a 50/50 chance of surviving a fatal accident is not a "great reduction" in fatalities. i know of 4 accidents in my area that were fatal. in 3 of them i know seatbelts were involved, the 4th im not sure of. thats a 75% chance there that seatbelts didnt do their job as theyre hyped up to be... one of them was a car making a uturn (didnt check both sides) and got hit by another car ~50mph, another one was a head on in a 55 mph zone (110, not much saving you....), my friends girlfriend as mentioned was a third, and a teacher at my school rolled his "smart" car and killed himself. I would say he wqas wearing a seatbelt though.
Looks like all men drivers :lol
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I'll be caps ankle humper... proven fact that woman are in more accidents. I drive with my female friends and im scared for my life...i drive with my male friends im comfortable. I have a police scanner at my house (on the fire department) when theres a car accident mosty every single one has a female operator, and is a newer car that has all these fancy things in em. it isnt assumption, its common sense....
i see this when there's accidents out in front of the shop too.
most are girls or women. the one that shocked me the most though, was the guy that cut inside a tractor/trailer making the wide right turn. i really expected to see a female make that mistake, as most of them don't seem to realize that big trucks do that.....but this was an old guy in a 4x4 dakota. he hit the landing gear on the trailer. had he been in anything small, he'd have been fubar.
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:rofl wait, that is how you determined women are slow to the breaks? That scenario you just described must happen a lot eh? And they all have the same excuse :rofl Did she also say the breaks were slow? :rofl I call BS.
Second, the ABS is there not for emergencies, but to work all the time in order to avoid emergencies. I guess another thing in your field you don't understand. A lot of "big" men make the mistake to think they can do a better job at stopping a car but they forget that they have no idea what the tires are on when they hit the breaks nor do they know the exact condition of their tires. Even knowing all that, they have no clue how much pressure on the breaks it too much simply because emergencies don;t happen that often (not to mention that your reflexes take over) . The ABS takes care of all that for you so you don;t have to pump your breaks. It is the difference between "thinking" you know and you can do a better job and actually doing the job in that situation. I am sure you think you can do a better job.
had to jam my brakes on from 70 -0 in 200 foot going down a hill....no ABS. been driving for 11 months. its computers and other assists dumbing us down. ok, im a new driver, what expierence do i have? nothing to compared to you im sure. how many 18 year olds do you know would know to hit the brakes, let off a little, hit em again rinse and repeat?
i see this when there's accidents out in front of the shop too.
most are girls or women. the one that shocked me the most though, was the guy that cut inside a tractor/trailer making the wide right turn. i really expected to see a female make that mistake, as most of them don't seem to realize that big trucks do that.....but this was an old guy in a 4x4 dakota. he hit the landing gear on the trailer. had he been in anything small, he'd have been fubar.
almost had that happen to a neighborin towns fire truck :lol its a funky position where the station is, but there isnt enough room in their "parking lot" for the fire trucks to turn around out front. need to shut down the road for a minute or two to do so... the things you see.
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:rofl wait, that is how you determined women are slow to the breaks? That scenario you just described must happen a lot eh? And they all have the same excuse :rofl Did she also say the breaks were slow? :rofl I call BS.
Second, the ABS is there not for emergencies, but to work all the time in order to avoid emergencies. I guess another thing in your field you don't understand. A lot of "big" men make the mistake to think they can do a better job at stopping a car but they forget that they have no idea what the tires are on when they hit the breaks nor do they know the exact condition of their tires. Even knowing all that, they have no clue how much pressure on the breaks it too much simply because emergencies don;t happen that often (not to mention that your reflexes take over) . The ABS takes care of all that for you so you don;t have to pump your breaks. It is the difference between "thinking" you know and you can do a better job and actually doing the job in that situation. I am sure you think you can do a better job.
first off....it's "brakes" not "breaks". secondly.......abs is not supposed to function all the time, and in fact will allow the brakes to lock up if pushed too far.
yes, i understand them very well...about as well as i understand evap systems, or better. :aok
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had to jam my brakes on from 70 -0 in 200 foot going down a hill....no ABS. been driving for 11 months. its computers and other assists dumbing us down. ok, im a new driver, what expierence do i have? nothing to compared to you im sure. how many 18 year olds do you know would know to hit the brakes, let off a little, hit em again rinse and repeat?
almost had that happen to a neighborin towns fire truck :lol its a funky position where the station is, but there isnt enough room in their "parking lot" for the fire trucks to turn around out front. need to shut down the road for a minute or two to do so... the things you see.
to answer your first question....those with common sense, and their parents, or someone took the time to teach them properly.
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to answer your first question....those with common sense, and their parents, or someone took the time to teach them properly.
how many teens have common sense, or parents with the balls to do so? at least where i live...not many.
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first off....it's "brakes" not "breaks". secondly.......abs is not supposed to function all the time, and in fact will allow the brakes to lock up if pushed too far.
yes, i understand them very well...about as well as i understand evap systems, or better. :aok
:rofl Good, I am glad you know how to at list spell brakes. Now please enlighten us on why women can't drive. I am sure there are a couple of them in here that would love to know. You never know, the life you save maybe mine :rofl
BTW, the ABS system is on and functioning at all times. I am sure you will agree if you think about it. You will probably say you were partially wrong?
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how many teens have common sense, or parents with the balls to do so? at least where i live...not many.
Where I live, most of them. It is not the ABS that stopped them from learning. It is who ever was teaching them. If you are as young as you say you are, keep in mind that your universe maybe only a subset of a bigger one. Just because something is true on your street . . . . you get the idea. I also don;t think it takes any balls to teach someone how to drive so not sure what you mean by that. As far as common sense goes, again, it is not the ABS that removed it.
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Where I live, most of them. It is not the ABS that stopped them from learning. It is who ever was teaching them. If you are as young as you say you are, keep in mind that your universe maybe only a subset of a bigger one. Just because something is true on your street . . . . you get the idea. I also don;t think it takes any balls to teach someone how to drive so not sure what you mean by that. As far as common sense goes, again, it is not the ABS that removed it.
why i said "at least where i live"...
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how many teens have common sense, or parents with the balls to do so? at least where i live...not many.
i know i had 0 common sense when i was a teen. but my grand pop made me drive the mustang, and the station wagon in the worst of the crap that we had.
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:rofl Good, I am glad you know how to at list spell brakes. Now please enlighten us on why women can't drive. I am sure there are a couple of them in here that would love to know. You never know, the life you save maybe mine :rofl
BTW, the ABS system is on and functioning at all times. I am sure you will agree if you think about it. You will probably say you were partially wrong?
no...the abs system is on all the time, and "watching", but doing nothing else. and no i won't, because i'm not. :devil
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no...the abs system is on all the time, and "watching", but doing nothing else. and no i won't, because i'm not. :devil
abs is not supposed to function all the time, and in fact will allow the brakes to lock up if pushed too far.
Sounds like it is on and functioning eh? Watching is part of its function. Maybe you view abs as the action taken on the breaks but that is partially wrong :neener:.
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Sounds like it is on and functioning eh? Watching is part of its function. Maybe you view abs as the action taken on the breaks but that is partially wrong :neener:.
as a matter of fact, it is not functioning. it is sitting, and waiting. if it's functioning, you've pushed your car too far.
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I learned to drive in a pasture with a 3 speed on the column dry and muddy.
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I learned to drive in a pasture with a 3 speed on the column dry and muddy.
i had 2 chevy pickups with column shifters. they both kept jamming between second and third. i ripped them out, and put floor shifters in them.
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as a matter of fact, it is not functioning. it is sitting, and waiting. if it's functioning, you've pushed your car too far.
:rofl You just moved to totally wrong :old: Its main function is sit, watch and wait :neener:
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:rofl You just moved to totally wrong :old: Its main function is sit, watch and wait :neener:
you slowly move to the side CAP is on..you go from "always on" to "sit, and watch"... :headscratch:
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:rofl You just moved to totally wrong :old: Its main function is sit, watch and wait :neener:
i got a question for ya.
are you beetl1 from over at fw? :devil
abs's main function is to dig you out of deep kaka once you've dug yourself into it.
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Our old Honda Accord has nearly gotten my mom hurt on the highways a few times now, and the plan is to buy a sedan with AWD. We know next to nothing about cars, and would like to get some opinions on pitfalls to avoid when shopping around. Our current pick is an Audi A4, but perhaps you guys know something we don't.
-Penguin
So, you figured out death, immortality, infinity, yet you can't figure out something as simple as to which car to buy?
You know, internet can be great resource if you actually bother to do some reading instead of posting a whole lot of nothing.
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This place is full of people who know a great deal about automobiles, and asking them provided me with a great source of information.
-Penguin
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i had 2 chevy pickups with column shifters. they both kept jamming between second and third. i ripped them out, and put floor shifters in them.
LOL, I grew up driving 3 on the tree Chevy pickups and seldom, if ever, jammed up the linkage between second and third gear. I suggest you never get into drag racing a manual transmission CAP1. ;)
Penguin, have you considered a Chevy Volt? Your planet would appreciate the effort.
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This place is full of........
-Penguin
fixed
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LOL, I grew up driving 3 on the tree Chevy pickups and seldom, if ever, jammed up the linkage between second and third gear. I suggest you never get into drag racing a manual transmission CAP1. ;)
Penguin, have you considered a Chevy Volt? Your planet would appreciate the effort.
It's not me buying the car, and my mom has range anxiety.
-Penguin
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LOL, I grew up driving 3 on the tree Chevy pickups and seldom, if ever, jammed up the linkage between second and third gear. I suggest you never get into drag racing a manual transmission CAP1. ;)
Penguin, have you considered a Chevy Volt? Your planet would appreciate the effort.
funny you make that last statement. i used to run a 12 second 5 speed mustang, deadly consistent. :devil
one of those trucks had 100k and change. the other had nearly 300k on it when i got it.
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The biggest problem with Traction Control systems is that while they can adjust performance for what's happening RIGHT NOW, they have no way of predicting what's going to happen in the future. There have been times when I'll get momentum going up a hill and even while moving forward one tire might break loose and I am faced with the choice of letting it 'slip' on the snow/ice and maintain my momentum - or to let up off of the gas to make it stop slipping but risk losing momentum in the process.
I'll give an example... the corner of the parking lot at a shop I used to work for had a slight downhill angle to it. We had a few inches of snow and I was driving a poorly maintained Nissan X-Terra around that corner to get to the back of the building. In the process, gravity did its thing and pulled the truck with its bald tires down the hill. As I would start going and finally get a little bit of forward momentum the traction control would kick in and I would slide right back down again. I went to hit the button to turn off the TC but it wouldn't turn off (of all things the TC button was broken!)
Needless to say, after about 20 minutes I managed to work it out of there but if the TC hadn't kicked in I feel confident that I could have maintained some forward momentum - even if it meant letting the tire slip some, and pulled out of there much quicker.
Now I understand that modern systems work even much better than that (especially those with AWD) and in all honesty it's amazing how far they've come with it all but I firmly believe that all of the technological advances in the world couldn't prevent as many accidents as driver training could. Auto manufacturers have conditioned people to believe that if they don't have AWD and Traction Control and Anti-Lock brakes and Radar Systems and Automatic Wipers and Daytime Running Lights and Air Bags and (Gasp! Dare I even mention this) Seat Belts then YOU'RE GONNA DIE!!! That's just not true. What cracks me up is that they implement all of these safety devices in order to reduce accidents (and fatalities) HOWEVER then they install other devices that increases those risks! Things such as GPS, DVD Players, touchscreens, etc! If safety truly was the #1 concern for consumers then they wouldn't care about such things. It's all pretty messed up if you ask me!
I mean really... It wasn't long ago that Rear Wheel Drive was the norm and people managed to get around just fine in the snow and the ice. They did it by using common sense, by driving slowly and cautiously and by driving only when absolutely necessary. These days people want technology that will enable them to cruise down a highway at eighty miles-per-hour in fourteen inches of snow and three inches of ice while straightening their hair, talking to their BFF, eating a bowl of yogurt, programming the GPS, and fiddling with the DVD player so the kids in the backseat can watch Shrek... while driving to the supermarket to load up on milk and bread so they can survive BLIZZPOCALYPSE '2011, only to strike a yellow pole and gouge the heck out of the side of the car in the McDonalds drive-thru on the way home! :bhead
I'm not saying safety features are bad. Really they're not. What scares me is the 'dumbing down' of people. I'm afraid that technology is replacing common sense and that can't be good for any society. Yes AWD vehicles are more stable during acceleration in extreme conditions but for someone to make a statement that you MUST get an AWD car because of having to drive in the snow every once in awhile... well that's real similar to saying that non-AWD vehicles aren't safe and can't be safely operating during adverse weather conditions. This simply isn't true. Personally, I'd rather trust my life to an experienced driver who is better educated in how to handle adverse conditions in a car with no safety features than to someone who has a "slam it and forget it" attitude when it comes to the gas pedal and the brakes in a car with the most modern safety features in the world!
Yeah I know I'm exaggerating a bit to get the point across (and to be funny) but seriously.. anyone who wants to spend $40,000 on a new car so that they feel more stable while driving in the snowy/icy slush on the highway a few times out of the year doesn't really care about safety. Penguin, not to say bad things about your mother but I suspect her *REAL* reason for wanting to spend $40,000 on a new car is because she wants to spend $40,000 on a new car! It's really that simple! People often need to justify spending large sums of money, and feeling safer in the ice and snow is her justification for it all.
From a common sense standpoint it would make more sense to make her keep the Accord and to get her a good set of snow tires this fall - It would definitely be cheaper! Yet something tells me that your mother won't truly be happy until she has a shiny new Audi in the driveway... and if it's financially feasible for your family then by all means GO FOR IT!
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This place is full of people who know a great deal about automobiles, and asking them provided me with a great source of information.
-Penguin
Going quickly through this thread I came to the conclusion that using it as a 'car buying guide' would be very unintelligent thing to do. But then, I'm not a philosopher.
Cuique suum.
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Going quickly through this thread I came to the conclusion that using it as a 'car buying guide' would be very unintelligent thing to do. But then, I'm not a philosopher.
Cuique suum.
You are absolutely correct, but then again I wouldn't recommend that anyone use a "car buying guide" as a car buying guide either. Professional review and publications such as Consumer Reports and the like are often just as biased (if not more) than your peers are when it comes to that sort of thing! What it really all comes down to is using common sense to sort through all of the information and picking out what you feel is accurate and going on that.
You've seen those BING commercials about information overload? One of the negative side effects of the internet. Sometimes it becomes difficult what to believe, especially if you're lacking common sense!
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funny you make that last statement. i used to run a 12 second 5 speed mustang, deadly consistent. :devil
one of those trucks had 100k and change. the other had nearly 300k on it when i got it.
We had to use our trucks for work pal- we didn't have time for frivolous pursuits like drag racing. We couldn't afford to break nothing.
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I would say she wants the $40,000 AWD car so so she can do 70mph down a slushy, snowy, icy highway. :devil
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It's not me buying the car, and my mom has range anxiety.
-Penguin
That's funny because often the same sorts of people who would rejects an electric car for just that reason are the same people who often flirt with the gas gauge on E and have likely run out of gas a time or two!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuEdU_lrtZk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuEdU_lrtZk) :lol
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I would say she wants the $40,000 AWD car so so she can do 70mph down a slushy, snowy, icy highway. :devil
I would say she wants the Audi because it comes with a built in child booster seat, but that would be mean. So I won't say that. But I WILL say it's impossible to jam the linkage on a 3 on the tree shifter between second and third. It's a straight throw.
Cap1, are you really a drag racer or are you messing with me? And why were you drag racing Chevy work trucks? That's crazy.
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I would say she wants the Audi because it comes with a built in child booster seat, but that would be mean. So I won't say that. But I WILL say it's impossible to jam the linkage on a 3 on the tree shifter between second and third. It's a straight throw.
Cap1, are you really a drag racer or are you messing with me? And why were you drag racing Chevy work trucks? That's crazy.
totally serious. this was my mustang. street car, driven every day, as pictured, regardless of the weather. i miss that car a lot.
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/ippie1.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/89GTA.jpg)
shop car. this car was a 9.90 car, detuned slightly, to keep her in the low to mid 10's. this first pic, was an "oops" moment. maybe abs or traction control might've helped me, eh? that light was a .499 on a .500 tree. :devil
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/HPIM8974.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/HPIM8975.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/HPIM8973.jpg)
i've not been to the track in a few years though, as money and time do not seem to present themselves both at the same time. i didn't drag race those trucks, unless it was a quick stop light challenge on the street. i did run my grand parents 6 cylinder maverick one weekend though.
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I've been using a set of Nokian WR G2 tires last winter. Much better on snow than generic M/S or all-seasons, and still good on dry or wet roads. Worth considering if you don't need dedicated snow/ice tires.
(http://www.nokiantires.com/files/nokiantires/2008/wrg2_car_lg.jpg)
http://www.nokiantyres.com/tyre?id=10360796&group=1.01&name=Nokian+WR+G2 (http://www.nokiantyres.com/tyre?id=10360796&group=1.01&name=Nokian+WR+G2)
I suppose those scandinavians know a thing or two about making winter tires.
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Wow...that totally sucks CAP1. I know what it's like to have to give up something you love too. The SPCA has been granted a court injunction forbidding me from raising fluffy pygmy rabbits, so I guess squeak squeak squeak means no no no to their legal eagles, eh?
Anyway I'm out of this thread. I'm going to go out and grease the linkage in my 53 Chevy truck powered by a 235 straight six with a dual Fenton exhaust setup, and pray my linkage doesn't jam up when I'm double clutching between second and third.
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I would say she wants the $40,000 AWD car so so she can do 70mph down a slushy, snowy, icy highway. :devil
Yes, that's exactly what she plans on doing. No joke.
-Penguin
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Yes, that's exactly what she plans on doing. No joke.
-Penguin
Then get the SHO...
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See Rules #2, #4
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Our old Honda Accord has nearly gotten my mom hurt on the highways a few times now, and the plan is to buy a sedan with AWD. We know next to nothing about cars, and would like to get some opinions on pitfalls to avoid when shopping around. Our current pick is an Audi A4, but perhaps you guys know something we don't.
-Penguin
Get lease plan if you're gonna get German luxo-iron like Audi.
Go BUY Lexus/Acura/Infiniti if you're gonna keep the car in the long term. Word on the streets is that they both have good long term reliability.
If you want Lexus fit & finish quality with a 10-year warranty... check out new/used Hyundai Genesis sedan.
Also, you don't have to get AWD unless you live climate diverse areas or you want high performance.
If you're seriously looking for an AWD in the luxury segment check out the Super Handling-AWD system found in Acura :rock
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJZxVefta68
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAPqyXGoV3o&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzQKjQR9u0A
Also, when it comes to stuff that matters most such as ergonomics, electricals & electronics: Japanese >>>>>>> German
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i have a 02 chrysler concorde,yes....GASP an american made car :confused: I rack up 125 miles a day on this ol girl I change the oil religiously every 5,000 miles and use syntech oil ,she just turned 210,000 with no major problems,I would suggest a frontwheel drive car with good tires and cautious driving,you do not need to buy a 35,000 dollar audi. a 20,000 dollar american car will do just as well and the parts wont kill you,oh and I live in michigan so I see all kinds of driving buy good tires and keep em properly inflated and rotated,good luck
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i have a 02 chrysler concorde,yes....GASP an american made car :confused: I rack up 125 miles a day on this ol girl I change the oil religiously every 5,000 miles and use syntech oil ,she just turned 210,000 with no major problems,I would suggest a frontwheel drive car with good tires and cautious driving,you do not need to buy a 35,000 dollar audi. a 20,000 dollar american car will do just as well and the parts wont kill you,oh and I live in michigan so I see all kinds of driving buy good tires and keep em properly inflated and rotated,good luck
I got a '00 Mazda Protege, thing is a monster in the snow. It's a Jap, but with the Pirelli Winter Carving snow tires (not studded, though studdable) I can push through wet snow up to my frame without a thought. FWD, no ABS. gets me from point a to point B just damn dandy. and quicker then needed :lol
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Oh and for the record. The best damn car I had for the snow... A '78 Tbird, studded snows and a tote of sand in the trunk... it went through everything.
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Get lease plan if you're gonna get German luxo-iron like Audi.
Go BUY Lexus/Acura/Infiniti if you're gonna keep the car in the long term. Word on the streets is that they both have good long term reliability.
If you want Lexus fit & finish quality with a 10-year warranty... check out new/used Hyundai Genesis sedan.
Also, you don't have to get AWD unless you live climate diverse areas or you want high performance.
If you're seriously looking for an AWD in the luxury segment check out the Super Handling-AWD system found in Acura :rock
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJZxVefta68
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAPqyXGoV3o&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzQKjQR9u0A
Also, when it comes to stuff that matters most such as ergonomics, electricals & electronics: Japanese >>>>>>> German
My Milan did fine at 60mph on snow this winter in Michigan. (http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/292/d/7/d7350787dc19217050392a4cd6a6d7a3-d30u3qx.gif)
If you're a crappy driver, AWD won't make you any better.
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My Milan did fine at 60mph on snow this winter in Michigan. (http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/292/d/7/d7350787dc19217050392a4cd6a6d7a3-d30u3qx.gif)
Yea well a 00 rt dakota sucks... and nothing makes it any better.... cept for a lot of sun. :D
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How much for the maverick?
I'm either going to do a 600hp turbo six maverick or amc spirit.
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Yea well a 00 rt dakota sucks... and nothing makes it any better.... cept for a lot of sun. :D
:cheers:
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How much for the maverick?
I'm either going to do a 600hp turbo six maverick or amc spirit.
Bahhh pinto wagon would be more interesting.
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Bahhh pinto wagon would be more interesting.
Buddy in HS has one with the straight 6. Wood paneling to boot. "Shaggin Wagon". :rock
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Buddy in HS has one with the straight 6. Wood paneling to boot. "Shaggin Wagon". :rock
Uh...Pintos didn't have a six. Just a four.
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Uh...Pintos didn't have a six. Just a four.
Even better on MPG, the straight 4. :rock
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Buddy in HS has one with the straight 6. Wood paneling to boot. "Shaggin Wagon". :rock
i never saw a straight 6 pinto. i've seen them with 4 cylinders, and v-6's though.....
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Uh...Pintos didn't have a six. Just a four.
incorrect snappy.
2.8L v-6. :aok
here in the us, you had 2 choices....the 2.3L ohc, or the 2.8L pushrod v-6.
oh yea...and regarding your other post......i've been driving clutch cars since i was 16. i think i know how to shift. not sure yet, but i think i know how to do it. and yes, double clutching too. and shifting without using the clutch. :bhead :bhead
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do you guys get different Audi cars in the USA cos in Europe they are ultra reliable and dead cheap to fix. My mate had a A3 that needed a new head gasket . parts cost him less than $30 to buy and it cost $150 in labour .
The Audi A6 has been consistently seen as a very reliable by the motor trade in Europe . It's been my belief that AWD provides better control in wet and snow conditions due to the LSD packs (especially in Audi cars) helping to reduce spinning .
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yup, all their VW/Audis (except the R8 iirc) are built in US or Mexico, and the quality is dreadful apparently ...
and as for the OP, just buy a set of winter tyres :aok
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a 50/50 chance of surviving a fatal accident is not a "great reduction" in fatalities. i know of 4 accidents in my area that were fatal. in 3 of them i know seatbelts were involved, the 4th im not sure of. thats a 75% chance there that seatbelts didnt do their job as theyre hyped up to be... one of them was a car making a uturn (didnt check both sides) and got hit by another car ~50mph, another one was a head on in a 55 mph zone (110, not much saving you....), my friends girlfriend as mentioned was a third, and a teacher at my school rolled his "smart" car and killed himself. I would say he wqas wearing a seatbelt though.
from this post its undeniable that 100% of all males who like flight sims cant do stats ;)
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incorrect snappy.
2.8L v-6. :aok
here in the us, you had 2 choices....the 2.3L ohc, or the 2.8L pushrod v-6.
oh yea...and regarding your other post......i've been driving clutch cars since i was 16. i think i know how to shift. not sure yet, but i think i know how to do it. and yes, double clutching too. and shifting without using the clutch. :bhead :bhead
Called him this AM, he in fact DID have the V-6. Still accelerated like a house standing on the side of the road.
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yup, all their VW/Audis (except the R8 iirc) are built in US or Mexico, and the quality is dreadful apparently ...
and as for the OP, just buy a set of winter tyres :aok
oh dear . Well if you guys drove a real Audi made by Germans you'd notice a HUGE difference . Mind you it was the yanks that killed the Delorean asking for the softer ride and CAT added. The European version was a beast with an extra 100 bhp and a much better lotus setup suspension
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It's been my belief that AWD provides better control in wet and snow conditions due to the LSD
You don't need hallucinogenics to believe it, it's true.
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Called him this AM, he in fact DID have the V-6. Still accelerated like a house standing on the side of the road.
yea....i remember my grand pops.......0 to 60 in the time it took to eat lunch. :devil
my sarcasm was aimed at the guy saying that pintos only came with 4 cylinders. :devil
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i got a question for ya.
are you beetl1 from over at fw? :devil
abs's main function is to dig you out of deep kaka once you've dug yourself into it.
Haha, no, but you know you screwed up on that one. You just wont admit it. :lol
I also have two daughters that will be getting out there in a few years, so I was really interested to know why they cannot do some things. It would make it easier to explain it to them if I had an experts opinion (you know, like you). But I guess you are walking away quietly from that one :aok
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Penguin ... have your Mom check out the Toyota Rav 4.
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Haha, no, but you know you screwed up on that one. You just wont admit it. :lol
I also have two daughters that will be getting out there in a few years, so I was really interested to know why they cannot do some things. It would make it easier to explain it to them if I had an experts opinion (you know, like you). But I guess you are walking away quietly from that one :aok
to be honest, if you take the time to teach them.....they'll be more capable than about 90% of the other drivers out there. i don't have anytrhing against women drivers. i simply say what i see. and i forgot to mention that i saw that when i worked for a company that did township and state police towing. most accidtents i towed were women......but nearly ALL of the DUI's i towed were men.
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yea....i remember my grand pops.......0 to 60 in the time it took to eat lunch. :devil
my sarcasm was aimed at the guy saying that pintos only came with 4 cylinders. :devil
Although ...5.0 will drop in easy.
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Uh...Pintos didn't have a six. Just a four.
My dad told me of the 'Pinto Fireball', there were bumper stickers that said:
I live for today, I drive a Pinto
or
Ford. Pinto. Fireball.
He would try to discourage tailgaters as much as he could, because he that he wasn't in a car, he was in a bomb on wheels.
-Penguin
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I believe only the wagons with the small bubble windows on the back had the V-6.
Those have to be valuable now.
My dad told me of the 'Pinto Fireball', there were bumper stickers that said:
I live for today, I drive a Pinto
or
Ford. Pinto. Fireball.
He would try to discourage tailgaters as much as he could, because he that he wasn't in a car, he was in a bomb on wheels.
-Penguin
Some came with firestone 500s as well.
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I believe only the wagons with the small bubble windows on the back had the V-6.
Those have to be valuable now.
Some came with firestone 500s as well.
no. ours was a regular station wagon.
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See Rule #6
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See Rule #6
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See Rule #6
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They could switch over to the "Gremlin" ... now that was a car.
Heck nooooo.... now AMC Pacer all the way for the win!
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They could switch over to the "Gremlin" ... now that was a car.
there's a guy around here that brings a gremlin "x" out every summer. wanna get embarrassed? find one, and go race against it. :devil
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Why are you discussing Pinto's?
True, should we move on to the Vega again? :uhoh
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I believe only the wagons with the small bubble windows on the back had the V-6.
Those have to be valuable now.
Some came with firestone 500s as well.
I was working at Ford during those times. The 3 door hatch came with an optional V6. The same V6 that powered the Mustang II. That was around 1975'ish.
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Well since this topic has obviously rolled way off topic, I thought I'd just let Penguin know that the Audi A4 is the #1 choice among gay men. Not that there is anything wrong with that....just saying. You can google it and verify this fact. :ahand
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I was working at Ford during those times. The 3 door hatch came with an optional V6. The same V6 that powered the Mustang II. That was around 1975'ish.
if i'm not mistaken, the mustang of that era was pretty much a pinto in disguise?
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Pretty much.
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Pretty much.
that's what i thought. that, and a friend running around in a 283 vega sedan delivery, was what made me want to put a 302 in our wagon. i think it'd have been a fun car too.
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that's what i thought. that, and a friend running around in a 283 vega sedan delivery, was what made me want to put a 302 in our wagon. i think it'd have been a fun car too.
I rode in a 1972 Vega that a guy dropped a smallblock 350 into. It required alot of cutting, and if memory servers me correct, he had a blower on it too. :D
We ran it up and down 1A in Ft. Lauderdale around roughly 1976.
Looked like this except yellow.
(http://img1.classistatic.com/cps/po/110221/239r1/2820j7m_26.jpeg)
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there's a guy around here that brings a gremlin "x" out every summer. wanna get embarrassed? find one, and go race against it. :devil
One of my best friends in High School had one ... can you say "Sleeper".
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I guess you're calling my mom gay, then? :headscratch: If that means that she's into guys, then I wouldn't exist if she weren't. :ahand
-Penguin
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I rode in a 1972 Vega that a guy dropped a smallblock 350 into. It required alot of cutting, and if memory servers me correct, he had a blower on it too. :D
We ran it up and down 1A in Ft. Lauderdale around roughly 1976.
Looked like this except yellow.
(http://img1.classistatic.com/cps/po/110221/239r1/2820j7m_26.jpeg)
i like that. :aok
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i like that. :aok
Yeah, not bad for a CHEVY. :D
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I guess you're calling my mom gay, then? :headscratch: If that means that she's into guys, then I wouldn't exist if she weren't. :ahand
-Penguin
Oh, apologies. I thought YOU were buying the car, thus the peer choice suggestion. :D
That said, Audi ranks down the list on reliability factor list. Now, if you plan to own and sell this car in a reasonable time (say under 100k and less than 10 years) I'd say go for it if you want to shell out that sort of money for a status symbol. Otherwise, I'd go with either a Japanese car or a Ford if you want reliability. :)
I'd buy a BMW over a ford, Japanese car and Audi if I was going to buy German iron (And I have, but sold my '01 330ci when my kids got too big for the backseat!)
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Fords are reliable? Wow. No, the plan is to drive this car for as long as the transmission and powertrain work.
-Penguin
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Fords are reliable? Wow. No, the plan is to drive this car for as long as the transmission and powertrain work.
-Penguin
They are these days.
Not when your mother was creating you though...:D
Then why not BMW? The reliability factor is better than Audi.
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Aren't BMW's like $60,000 a pop?
-Penguin
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In a study by J.D. Power and Associates that is based on consumer feedback after three years of ownership, and dealing with specific models as opposed to an overall automaker, the results were as follows:
-Sub-Compact Car: Honda Fit
-Compact Car: Toyota Prius
-Compact Sporty Car: Mazda Miata
-Midsize Sporty Car: Ford Mustang
-Midsize Car: Ford Fusion
-Large Car: Buick Lucerne
-Compact Premium Sporty Car: Mercedes-Benz CLK
-Entry Premium Car: Lincoln MKZ
-Midsize Premium Car: Acura RL
-Large Premium Car: Cadillac DTS
-Compact Multi Purpose Vehicle: Scion xB
-Compact Crossover/SUV: Honda CR-V
-Entry Premium Crossover/SUV: BMW X3
-Midsize Crossover/SUV: Toyota 4Runner
-Large Crossover/SUV: Chevrolet Tahoe
-Large Pickup: Toyota Tundra
-Midsize Pickup: Toyota Tacoma
-Midsize Van: Toyota Sienna
-Midsize Premium Crossover/SUV: Lexus RX 350
-Large Premium Crossover/SUV: Lincoln Navigator
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Aren't BMW's like $60,000 a pop?
-Penguin
The Audi A4 is roughly equivelent to the BMW 330 (or 335)
I've not bought a new one since 2001, but I paid $34,000 back then, for a pretty high-end 330ci Coupe. I would venture to guess a new 330 is up to around $40k these days, same price as a new Audi A4.
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Aren't BMW's like $60,000 a pop?
-Penguin
you know it takes less time to Google it than to ask that question right?
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I thought it was pretty random and entertaining before in this thread talking about the Pinto, but I nearly choked on the mentioning of the Mustang II. :rofl :aok
Vegas were/are sweet little cars, love seeing the few still around at some shows.
I had a friend in high school that bought a beat-up '65 Falcon as a project car that he drove to and from school everyday, and even beat up and coated in grey primer that car was always my favorite on the student lot.
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I know absolutely nothing about the car market.
-Penguin
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The Audi A4 is roughly equivelent to the BMW 330 (or 335)
I've not bought a new one since 2001, but I paid $34,000 back then, for a pretty high-end 330ci Coupe. I would venture to guess a new 330 is up to around $40k these days, same price as a new Audi A4.
if you offered me a bmw, or the equivalent audi.........i'd take the beemer hands down. :aok
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you know it takes less time to Google it than to ask that question right?
it just took me longer to google it than it did to type it out. :neener:
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I thought it was pretty random and entertaining before in this thread talking about the Pinto, but I nearly choked on the mentioning of the Mustang II. :rofl :aok
Vegas were/are sweet little cars, love seeing the few still around at some shows.
I had a friend in high school that bought a beat-up '65 Falcon as a project car that he drove to and from school everyday, and even beat up and coated in grey primer that car was always my favorite on the student lot.
way back when, we had put a 351c into a 65 falcon. talk about shoe honing an engine in........
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what she needs is a Land Rover Short wheel base series II (pre 1975) with galvanised chaise and front winch ; possibly with the 24V power ring and PTO shaft . the 2.5 diesel will give her great torque and the over drive gears will let her get up to 80mph no problem . Slight defects will be the split window (draftee) and general lack of creature comforts (no radio, no carpets , no door cards, crappy heater , not much adjustments on seats and sliding windows[and i don't mean winding ones either]) . On the plus side dead cheap for repair and spares (new door will set you back all of $15) . Plus great off road .
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if you offered me a bmw, or the equivalent audi.........i'd take the beemer hands down. :aok
Best, most reliable car I ever owned. I had it 6 years and 95,000 miles. No problems.
That said, I had a friend that owned an Audi A4 (2002 year) that had nothing but problems and ended up trading it in on....{Drum roll...} a BMW 2 years later. :D
(Waves to Beet1e) :neener:
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what she needs is a Land Rover Short wheel base series II (pre 1975) with galvanised chaise and front winch ; possibly with the 24V power ring and PTO shaft . the 2.5 diesel will give her great torque and the over drive gears will let her get up to 80mph no problem . Slight defects will be the split window (draftee) and general lack of creature comforts (no radio, no carpets , no door cards, crappy heater , not much adjustments on seats and sliding windows[and i don't mean winding ones either]) . On the plus side dead cheap for repair and spares (new door will set you back all of $15) . Plus great off road .
a land rover is the only way she could do worse than an audi.
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:headscratch: you thought I was being serious?
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:headscratch: you thought I was being serious?
it was a good chance for me to toss more sarcasm out there. plus, if you like audis.....who knows if you're serious about land rovers or not,. :devil
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Caps i think you poor saps in the US are being done over by Audi . As I said earlier in Europe they have excellent build quality and reliability . BTW what's wrong with Land Rovers (the older ones new ones suck) they are great farmers vehicles .
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Caps i think you poor saps in the US are being done over by Audi . As I said earlier in Europe they have excellent build quality and reliability . BTW what's wrong with Land Rovers (the older ones new ones suck) they are great farmers vehicles .
i have talked to other people over there, who say the same things. that's part of why i told you in the other forum that it pisses me off that we don't get the same stuff here that you guys get there. thanks EPA
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I was working at Ford during those times. The 3 door hatch came with an optional V6. The same V6 that powered the Mustang II. That was around 1975'ish.
Yes,the 3 door and wagons had them though it was a rare option,I think on a heavy day it was 1 in 8 or 10 engines going down the line.
You'd know 1 at the "rolls" test though,they'd make nice sounds from the tires on the polished concrete floors. :aok
Now to go way of topic,I had a 2.6 V6 ford capri,73 last year before the dog 2.8 came out.
I've been considering an AWD vehicle lately myself,I can justify the decision by stating that I live up in Canukville and I cant afford the insurance on the dogsled anymore! And besides I think I might even need a licence for the dogsled the way things are going......... :devil
:salute
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VAG manufacture in NA because its cheaper. import duties, tax breaks and other incentives mean the product gets to market at lower cost if its manufactured locally. VW/Audi lose a degree of control over the production process, but they make more profit that way, and theres more jobs for americans.
honda seem to have cracked it in europe - UK produced hondas are just as good as the domestic hondas afaik, VAG dont seem to have got it right in the US. hondas do seem to have a good rep in the US, presumably they are manufactured in NA rather than all imports?
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Holmes,
The civic and accords are built in NA,also I think the CRV is being built in Canada.
:salute
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VAG manufacture in NA because its cheaper. import duties, tax breaks and other incentives mean the product gets to market at lower cost if its manufactured locally. VW/Audi lose a degree of control over the production process, but they make more profit that way, and theres more jobs for americans.
honda seem to have cracked it in europe - UK produced hondas are just as good as the domestic hondas afaik, VAG dont seem to have got it right in the US. hondas do seem to have a good rep in the US, presumably they are manufactured in NA rather than all imports?
normally, i'd buy into that.....but subarus, hondas and toyotas are built here, and they are top quality cars.
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As I said earlier in Europe they have excellent build quality and reliability .
Are you speaking for the diesel powered Volks and Audis?
I get the impression that european market has diesel-friendly mandate and sets high priority on diesel engines while gasoline versions are just an afterthought.
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My bud recorded 20k worth of fuel and mileage and ended up with 35mpg average for his 1.9 tdi jetta.
The larger SUV's are a lot closer to gas engine mpg with the recent Benz G350 suv getting an average from 18 to 20mpg combined.
Frontal area and driver habits can undo even the most effecient engines.
I've seen Prius cars with 27mpg average mpg on the display when I service them.
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all audi's and vw have good build . The Audi S4 is a beast of a car that's well put together and that has a supercharged 3Lt V6 and that gets the same treatment as the diesel quality wise . In general diesels are more expensive to buy than petrols and it's more costly to buy at the pumps , but you get better mileage from it .
I own a 1.9 diesel peugeot 306 ld from 1999 and I pay $425 a year on VED ( thats how much you pay to own and run a vehicle depending on how much CO2 it pumps out and engine size) if it was a petrol it would cost me much more as petrols tend to produce more CO2 and CO . Some cars like the vw with blue diesel engines will cost you less than $100 y ear to own even though it is a 2Lt engine thanks to it's lower emission. that's how it works in the UK not sure about the rest of Europe.
Oh and VED is Vehicle Excise Duty and is not a road tax .
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all audi's and vw have good build . The Audi S4 is a beast of a car that's well put together and that has a supercharged 3Lt V6 and that gets the same treatment as the diesel quality wise . In general diesels are more expensive to buy than petrols and it's more costly to buy at the pumps , but you get better mileage from it .
I own a 1.9 diesel peugeot 306 ld from 1999 and I pay $425 a year on VED ( thats how much you pay to own and run a vehicle depending on how much CO2 it pumps out and engine size) if it was a petrol it would cost me much more as petrols tend to produce more CO2 and CO . Some cars like the vw with blue diesel engines will cost you less than $100 y ear to own even though it is a 2Lt engine thanks to it's lower emission. that's how it works in the UK not sure about the rest of Europe.
Oh and VED is Vehicle Excise Duty and is not a road tax .
so how much do they charge each person over there for each breath they exhale?
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well if you have a classic car (before 1975) you pay zero VED . I don't mind paying it but there again I'm slightly hippy and think more people should ride bicycles or walk. It is a way of trying to get people to use more efficiently cars or convert to bio fuel .
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well if you have a classic car (before 1975) you pay zero VED . I don't mind paying it but there again I'm slightly hippy and think more people should ride bicycles or walk. It is a way of trying to get people to use more efficiently cars or convert to bio fuel .
if that were to happen, they would definitely tax your breathing. after all, you exhale co2....you know...the stuff trees live on.......
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it just took me longer to google it than it did to type it out. :neener:
Heh, I believe you ;)
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well if you have a classic car (before 1975) you pay zero VED . I don't mind paying it but there again I'm slightly hippy and think more people should ride bicycles or walk. It is a way of trying to get people to use more efficiently cars or convert to bio fuel .
Walking and riding a bike there may work fine. Here our commute to work can sometimes be 50 or 100 miles.
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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My wife drives a Chrysler minivan. I drive a small Nissan with great gas mileage. Changed brakes on her minivan, middle of the range brake pads run $50. Middle of the range for the Nissan is $19.99.
I would read consumer reports, don't buy brand new but 15,000-25,000 and consider repairs.
I also have a cousin who runs the biggest ambulance chasing law firm in Utah. No names given. He makes $3 mil plus a year. Owns numerous brand new cars and complains about the cost of repairs. His Jaguar is constantly getting worked on. Not that you are going to buy this car but considering his wealth and his biggest gripe is repairs...
Boo
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That's it. Focus on the extreme exceptions :lol
Nothing extreme about long commutes at all.
It is very common.
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That's it. Focus on the extreme exceptions :lol
In Texas this is by far not extreme.
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Walking and riding a bike there may work fine. Here our commute to work can sometimes be 50 or 100 miles.
If your vehicle gives off under 90mg of CO2 per mile it free on the roads.
I need a car for some of my work . I ride to where I work as a grounds man but I need a car for my window cleaning and bicycle repairs . what is frustrating in the UK is the number on mums driving their kids to school that live less than 2 miles from the school ect.
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If your vehicle gives off under 90mg of CO2 per mile it free on the roads.
I need a car for some of my work . I ride to where I work as a grounds man but I need a car for my window cleaning and bicycle repairs . what is frustrating in the UK is the number on mums driving their kids to school that live less than 2 miles from the school ect.
BUT WHY are they taxing something that is not bad?
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Folks, lets not get into asking questions that will lead to a political discussion.
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Our old Honda Accord has nearly gotten my mom hurt on the highways a few times now, and the plan is to buy a sedan with AWD. We know next to nothing about cars, and would like to get some opinions on pitfalls to avoid when shopping around. Our current pick is an Audi A4, but perhaps you guys know something we don't.
-Penguin
I would point out, Penguy, that we here at Ford adopted a state of the art Haldex AWD system a few years back. It now features in just about every major vehicle line we have. For example, you could get an Edge or Flex in AWD, or a Fusion Sport (with the 3.5L, natch - surprising performance for a Fusion) with AWD, or an MkT, MkX, MkZ, or MkS - all featuring the same excellently seamless Haldex awd system (scaled, of course, per application).
I note we have a Subie advocate here and, yeah, my wife's into 'em, but I note that our initial quality is better. I also note, on the downside, that we do not yet have the Haldex system in our excellent new 2012 Eu-common Focus (it replaces the unloved and krappy old North American Focus) but it MAY be coming.
One advantage we might hold for you: You know me. We've traded enough messages that I feel I can ethically call you someone I know. PM me if you want more info.
So let the flaming of Ford begin - but remember, we're not sucking up in Washington - we're out here making money as the best domestic manufacturer.
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I would point out, Penguy, that we here at Ford adopted a state of the art Haldex AWD system a few years back. It now features in just about every major vehicle line we have. For example, you could get an Edge or Flex in AWD, or a Fusion Sport (with the 3.5L, natch - surprising performance for a Fusion) with AWD, or an MkT, MkX, MkZ, or MkS - all featuring the same excellently seamless Haldex awd system (scaled, of course, per application).
I note we have a Subie advocate here and, yeah, my wife's into 'em, but I note that our initial quality is better. I also note, on the downside, that we do not yet have the Haldex system in our excellent new 2012 Eu-common Focus (it replaces the unloved and krappy old North American Focus) but it MAY be coming.
One advantage we might hold for you: You know me. We've traded enough messages that I feel I can ethically call you someone I know. PM me if you want more info.
So let the flaming of Ford begin - but remember, we're not sucking up in Washington - we're out here making money as the best domestic manufacturer.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. :D
-Penguin
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The squeaky wheel gets the grease. :D
-Penguin
Oh really? That "grease" is a poison pill for GM. They've lost creative control and are already taking debt onto the balance sheet again. We made $2.6B worth of "grease" in Q1. How'd GM do absent duplicitous accounting practices? Check share figures lately? I've got a mole in Crapsler. You don't EVEN want to know their "best practices".
I'm serious here - I'll help you out as a corporate friend. I'd reocmmend you drive one. Go see what we've got and compare it to any of 'em. Then talk to me.
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Folks, lets not get into asking questions that will lead to a political discussion.
sorry.
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So let the flaming of Ford begin - but remember, we're not sucking up in Washington - we're out here making money as the best domestic manufacturer.
I beg to differ. :D
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No matter what you think of Ford, you have to give them credit. They have done what no other American car company could and they did it without any bailout money. Seems to me they are taking care of business.
It also looks like they might be having some fun while they are at it. They have earned the right to be proud of thier accomplishments.
Kudos, and keep it up.
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VED was setup to help pay for the motorways over here in bankrupt blighty . it goes up in stages low carbon $60 a year $130 $240 and much much higher for real gas guzzlers. it does mean other taxes are a little lower.
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VED was setup to help pay for the motorways over here in bankrupt blighty . it goes up in stages low carbon $60 a year $130 $240 and much much higher for real gas guzzlers. it does mean other taxes are a little lower.
i really wish i could type here what i think about co2 taxes, etc....but i realize the skuzzmeister has a hard enough job without us going loopy in here...and i don't want a vacation from here......this place(as scary as it may seem) helps me retain my sanity.
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No matter what you think of Ford, you have to give them credit. They have done what no other American car company could and they did it without any bailout money. Seems to me they are taking care of business.
It also looks like they might be having some fun while they are at it. They have earned the right to be proud of thier accomplishments.
Kudos, and keep it up.
Only because my company wasn't smart enough to promote Alan Mulally, who was a native home grown Boeing Engineer, and one of the brightest, most sincere guys I'd ever met. He left for Ford when Boeing gave McNerny the job. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
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Only because my company wasn't smart enough to promote Alan Mulally, who was a native home grown Boeing Engineer, and one of the brightest, most sincere guys I'd ever met. He left for Ford when Boeing gave McNerny the job. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
i wouldn't doubt that ford gave him a pretty good offer to come over too.
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No matter what you think of Ford, you have to give them credit. They have done what no other American car company could and they did it without any bailout money. Seems to me they are taking care of business.
It also looks like they might be having some fun while they are at it. They have earned the right to be proud of thier accomplishments.
Kudos, and keep it up.
True that
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Oh really? That "grease" is a poison pill for GM. They've lost creative control and are already taking debt onto the balance sheet again. We made $2.6B worth of "grease" in Q1. How'd GM do absent duplicitous accounting practices? Check share figures lately? I've got a mole in Crapsler. You don't EVEN want to know their "best practices".
I'm serious here - I'll help you out as a corporate friend. I'd reocmmend you drive one. Go see what we've got and compare it to any of 'em. Then talk to me.
I meant that the company that advertises well gets many customers, and your recommendation was eloquent.I didn't mean to insult Ford! :eek:
-Penguin
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No matter what you think of Ford, you have to give them credit. They have done what no other American car company could and they did it without any bailout money. Seems to me they are taking care of business.
It also looks like they might be having some fun while they are at it. They have earned the right to be proud of thier accomplishments.
Kudos, and keep it up.
I heard that Mazda has split from Ford,thats a shame I thought they did some good work together. We've been Ford people for years but in the early 90's the depreciation on new models was just too much. The same couldn't be said about toyota and honda,normally I'd get a 2 year old car and let someone else eat the depreciation but when it came to the H&T cars you were better off buying new as a 2 YO car hadn't lost anymore than 15% unless it had outrageous milage on it.
That said I think it's time to revisit to old found on road dead's.I'm looking for an AWD crosover type,any suggestions?
:salute
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i really wish i could type here what i think about co2 taxes, etc....but i realize the skuzzmeister has a hard enough job without us going loopy in here...and i don't want a vacation from here......this place(as scary as it may seem) helps me retain my sanity.
It's not a CO2 tax . CO2 and fuel consumption is just a of regulating the scale it just taxes the car.
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No matter what you think of Ford, you have to give them credit. They have done what no other American car company could and they did it without any bailout money. Seems to me they are taking care of business.
It also looks like they might be having some fun while they are at it. They have earned the right to be proud of thier accomplishments.
Kudos, and keep it up.
Bail out money made public anyway......
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i really wish i could type here what i think about co2 taxes, etc....but i realize the skuzzmeister has a hard enough job without us going loopy in here...and i don't want a vacation from here......this place(as scary as it may seem) helps me retain my sanity.
just out of curiosity...just popped in my mind. how "dirty" would newer vehicles be before all the emission parts in them (right before where the cat hooks up to the down pipe)? it cant be anyworse then the older cars (like 1940's), can it?
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just out of curiosity...just popped in my mind. how "dirty" would newer vehicles be before all the emission parts in them (right before where the cat hooks up to the down pipe)? it cant be anyworse then the older cars (like 1940's), can it?
some wouldn't be very dirty at all anymore.
one of the easy ways to tell, is to count how many catalytic converters are on a vehicle. the more converters, the dirtier the engine runs. 80's fords used to have 4 cats.....2 on each bank. shouldn't have been necessary, but it is what it is.
it's been a loooooong time since i've checked emissions before the cats. not had a need to do so for years.
at the risk of pushing things too far....the entire co2 scare/bs gype is only happening, due to organizations not wanting to lose their entitlements, now that the last hoax has been discovered to be a hoax.
i mean....think about it.....what does co2 do? what lives on co2, and what do those things give us? co2 isn't a bad thing at all, nor is it a pollutant.
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I would point out, Penguy, that we here at Ford adopted a state of the art Haldex AWD system a few years back. It now features in just about every major vehicle line we have. For example, you could get an Edge or Flex in AWD, or a Fusion Sport (with the 3.5L, natch - surprising performance for a Fusion) with AWD, or an MkT, MkX, MkZ, or MkS - all featuring the same excellently seamless Haldex awd system (scaled, of course, per application).
Some pics with few of the different vehicles i rented over past years from Calgary,Alberta and hit the Rockies roads.I prefer 4x4 even in summer time, because sometimes is snowing on high mountain passes, but are not easy to find at rental places especially in weekends. This Ford Flex 4x4 was impressive, handling great on high grades snow covered roads, it's heavy well balanced weight per axles, good traction/ABS.
click to enlarge
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/th_icefieldparkwaynov2010755-3.jpg) (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/icefieldparkwaynov2010755-3.jpg)(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/th_banff13dec2009128-7.jpg) (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/banff13dec2009128-7.jpg)(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/th_icefieldparkwaymay26th2010207-2.jpg) (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/icefieldparkwaymay26th2010207-2.jpg)(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/th_Alberta15dec2009420-2.jpg) (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/Alberta15dec2009420-2.jpg)(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/th_morainelake288-2.jpg) (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/morainelake288-2.jpg)
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some wouldn't be very dirty at all anymore.
one of the easy ways to tell, is to count how many catalytic converters are on a vehicle. the more converters, the dirtier the engine runs. 80's fords used to have 4 cats.....2 on each bank. shouldn't have been necessary, but it is what it is.
it's been a loooooong time since i've checked emissions before the cats. not had a need to do so for years.
at the risk of pushing things too far....the entire co2 scare/bs gype is only happening, due to organizations not wanting to lose their entitlements, now that the last hoax has been discovered to be a hoax.
i mean....think about it.....what does co2 do? what lives on co2, and what do those things give us? co2 isn't a bad thing at all, nor is it a pollutant.
my thoughts exactly. thank you much!
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Trees, grass, flowers ect all need CO2 to live and in return give us O2.
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biggest problem is that not just co2 comes out the back but also carbon monoxide. the amount of co that comes out the back is almost twice as much co2. Add to the fact that the forests that once took care of the co2 are being reduced by a huge area every week we could be in trouble . CATS are very bad for the environment too. where as the stuff that came out the exhaust were quite big particles that were easily filtered by our nasal hair they are now to small and now reach our lungs . hence the large increase in asthma and other chest complaints in cities.
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Trees, grass, flowers ect all need CO2 to live and in return give us O2.
as do plankton, which give us much more than anyone thinks....... :aok
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my thoughts exactly. thank you much!
i put 1 wrong word in there. where i typed "discovered", i should have typed "exposed".
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biggest problem is that not just co2 comes out the back but also carbon monoxide. the amount of co that comes out the back is almost twice as much co2. Add to the fact that the forests that once took care of the co2 are being reduced by a huge area every week we could be in trouble . CATS are very bad for the environment too. where as the stuff that came out the exhaust were quite big particles that were easily filtered by our nasal hair they are now to small and now reach our lungs . hence the large increase in asthma and other chest complaints in cities.
carbon monoxide has been reduced to less than half of what it was 30 years ago. it's nearly not there. same with hyudorcarbons. read up on catalytic converters, on how they work. they convert these gases, hence their name. if ya want, i'll go dig out a couple of my basic books, and copy some of the workings into here.
as for the huge amounts of forests being taken down? it doesn't matter how much we clean up cars, or factories. if people are still on this earth breathing, then there will be co2. the solution, is to stop cutting down the forests.....and before you try...there really isn't that much need to take em down. and no, i'm not a tree hugger.
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I agree with you there with the trees . CATS are good in some ways but they also do more damage health wise than older pre cats cars did. Climate change is happening but it's more of a problem with manufacturing more than cars polluting. Thats why VED is not a CO2 tax . Amount of CO2 and engine size has always been how it was set , even before " climate change" came about.
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WOW, it would seem that the real pollutant is Oxygen
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mmm thats not right, car tax was a fixed rate for all cars for ~100yrs up to ~10yrs ago, when there was a lower rate for small engines introduced. the tiered system based on emmissions/engine size came in ~5yrs ago.
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I agree with you there with the trees . CATS are good in some ways but they also do more damage health wise than older pre cats cars did. Climate change is happening but it's more of a problem with manufacturing more than cars polluting. Thats why VED is not a CO2 tax . Amount of CO2 and engine size has always been how it was set , even before " climate change" came about.
YES, climate change is indeed happening. it was happening long before man came into existence, and when the world goes "boom", and man no longer exists, it will continue to happen.
i would say that the manufacture of the catalytic converters is more polluting, than what they do once installed in a car. i remember a day, that it was nearly impossible to stand near the back end of a car as it idled. yet today, that is no problem at all. the majority of what comes out of the tailpipe of todays cars, is co2, and water. there are still the "bad" gases, but they are nearly non-existent, compared to 30 years ago.
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I beg to differ. :D
Shuffler, you got me on that one. I wondered if someone would when I wrote it.
We DO have the Ford PAC. My point, however, was that we weren't saved from bankruptcy by DC. I'll stand on that.
Believe me, I'm not down with much of the PAC lobby effort. It - and its counterparts at the other OEMs, looks a lot like an oligopoly erecting barriers. How many small independent automakers still exist? Uh-huh. Those %$^$%&^$....
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VED was setup to help pay for the motorways over here in bankrupt blighty . it goes up in stages low carbon $60 a year $130 $240 and much much higher for real gas guzzlers. it does mean other taxes are a little lower.
Under some assumption that spending and revenue correlate - one that does not appear to govern, at least here (nor, come to think of it, there).
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No matter what you think of Ford, you have to give them credit. They have done what no other American car company could and they did it without any bailout money. Seems to me they are taking care of business.
It also looks like they might be having some fun while they are at it. They have earned the right to be proud of thier accomplishments.
Kudos, and keep it up.
Yeah. What he said.
I remember the dark days of '03. WE all knew the market had changed structurally and that our stuff was outdated junk. Then Derrick Kuzak came in and addressed us about "emotive, no-excuse cars and trucks". I recall being stunned to hear, in a meeting, a finance VP recognize that, were we to take content out of the then-upcoming Taurus in order to cut costs, we'd end up giving it back on the hood to sell the vehicle. It was then that Irealized that Mulally and Kuzak were starting to have some impact on local thinking within the "layers of bureaucratic clay".
I remember in '06 when my Director asked aloud what it might feel like to work for a successful company.
After Q1, in our directorate all-hands, he said we ought to now know how it feels. Everybody sort of laughed. It's a tough industry these days. We're not totally out of the woods. We're trying to get our commercial paper grading back by paying down the debt and our sig hmi is causing us some software-based recent quality issues - but we're awake. My opinion w/r GM and Crapsler both is that the y will both be bankrupt again within a decade. Neither learned anything.
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See Rule #14
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See Rule #14
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you realize that that money was intended to not only save gm, but to save jobs in the usa? wanna guess where they decided to save jobs with the camaro? and it isn't the usa. that is honestly the only thing that'd stop me from considering a camaro, if i didn't like the mustang better. that's also why if i bought a chevy hotrod, i'd buy the vette.
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Some pics with few of the different vehicles i rented over past years from Calgary,Alberta and hit the Rockies roads.I prefer 4x4 even in summer time, because sometimes is snowing on high mountain passes, but are not easy to find at rental places especially in weekends. This Ford Flex 4x4 was impressive, handling great on high grades snow covered roads, it's heavy well balanced weight per axles, good traction/ABS.
click to enlarge
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/th_icefieldparkwaynov2010755-3.jpg) (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/icefieldparkwaynov2010755-3.jpg)(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/th_banff13dec2009128-7.jpg) (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/banff13dec2009128-7.jpg)(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/th_icefieldparkwaymay26th2010207-2.jpg) (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/icefieldparkwaymay26th2010207-2.jpg)(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/th_Alberta15dec2009420-2.jpg) (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/Alberta15dec2009420-2.jpg)(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/th_morainelake288-2.jpg) (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/morainelake288-2.jpg)
When your interested in a vehicle.... asking someone who rents alot is a pretty good idea. They can tell you from experience what they have noted on each and in what conditions.
Now... I wonder if Ghi drives in F3 mode. :D
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you realize that that money was intended to not only save gm, but to save jobs in the usa? wanna guess where they decided to save jobs with the camaro? and it isn't the usa. that is honestly the only thing that'd stop me from considering a camaro, if i didn't like the mustang better. that's also why if i bought a chevy hotrod, i'd buy the vette.
Yup..... odd it is made in Canada.
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Yup..... odd it is made in Canada.
would you believe i never knew that till a camaro owner.....one whos brother almost got his into pinks all out when they were at englishtown......he told me. i think he said they've been made there since the mid 90's.
i'd have preferred to see gm to bring the camaro back home.
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carbon monoxide has been reduced to less than half of what it was 30 years ago. it's nearly not there. same with hyudorcarbons. read up on catalytic converters, on how they work. they convert these gases, hence their name. if ya want, i'll go dig out a couple of my basic books, and copy some of the workings into here.
as for the huge amounts of forests being taken down? it doesn't matter how much we clean up cars, or factories. if people are still on this earth breathing, then there will be co2. the solution, is to stop cutting down the forests.....and before you try...there really isn't that much need to take em down. and no, i'm not a tree hugger.
Other problems include:acid rain and ocean acidification. You see, when CO2 enters the upper troposphere, it interacts with water vapor to form carbonic acid. This acid comes down and lowers soil pH, making it harder to grow crops. Not only that, but the ocean absorbs large amounts of CO2, and it too has become much more acidic. This increase in acidity means that organisms must expend extra energy to expel the extra hydrogen ions, and this will kill them in droves.
Also, you must contend with the fact that the amount of pollutants rises annually due to population growth. As countries become richer, their people will want to enjoy the finer parts of life, such as cars and mass produced items. The production of these things often involves the burning of fuel, which produces CO2. Our planet's natural capacity to absorb our pollutants is already stretched, and as our populations grow this will put severe strain on our ecosystems.
Earth, a little blue ball of life in the void of space. It's diversity and hospitability are astounding, millions of species, trillions of creatures. Man is but one species, and it has transformed it from a primordial jungle into a gleaming civilization. However, his rise is as tragic as it is illustrious, for Earth suffers as he builds- the rain melts rocks, the oceans become a dead void, and smog as thick soup blankets entire swaths of land. Granted, this might sound like a bunch of mumbo-jumbo that will occur a zillion years from now, but are you willing to say that destroying the planet of your grandchildren and great-grandchildren does not faze you? Earth is not just your home or my home, it is the home of all mankind. Pollution is our greatest test since the atom bomb, and if we fail, man's story will end.
-Penguin
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Other problems include:acid rain and ocean acidification. You see, when CO2 enters the upper troposphere, it interacts with water vapor to form carbonic acid. This acid comes down and lowers soil pH, making it harder to grow crops. Not only that, but the ocean absorbs large amounts of CO2, and it too has become much more acidic. This increase in acidity means that organisms must expend extra energy to expel the extra hydrogen ions, and this will kill them in droves.
Also, you must contend with the fact that the amount of pollutants rises annually due to population growth. As countries become richer, their people will want to enjoy the finer parts of life, such as cars and mass produced items. The production of these things often involves the burning of fuel, which produces CO2. Our planet's natural capacity to absorb our pollutants is already stretched, and as our populations grow this will put severe strain on our ecosystems.
Earth, a little blue ball of life in the void of space. It's diversity and hospitability are astounding, millions of species, trillions of creatures. Man is but one species, and it has transformed it from a primordial jungle into a gleaming civilization. However, his rise is as tragic as it is illustrious, for Earth suffers as he builds- the rain melts rocks, the oceans become a dead void, and smog as thick soup blankets entire swaths of land. Granted, this might sound like a bunch of mumbo-jumbo that will occur a zillion years from now, but are you willing to say that destroying the planet of your grandchildren and great-grandchildren does not faze you? Earth is not just your home or my home, it is the home of all mankind. Pollution is our greatest test since the atom bomb, and if we fail, man's story will end.
-Penguin
But CAP said trees use CO2 for good :confused: Where did you get all this misinformation and what is your agenda?
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But CAP said trees use CO2 for good :confused: Where did you get all this misinformation and what is your agenda?
plankton use it too.
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Other problems include:acid rain and ocean acidification. You see, when CO2 enters the upper troposphere, it interacts with water vapor to form carbonic acid. This acid comes down and lowers soil pH, making it harder to grow crops. Not only that, but the ocean absorbs large amounts of CO2, and it too has become much more acidic. This increase in acidity means that organisms must expend extra energy to expel the extra hydrogen ions, and this will kill them in droves.wasn't it you that said on the other board, that co2 is heavy enough that it doesn't rise, causing problems?
Also, you must contend with the fact that the amount of pollutants rises annually due to population growth. As countries become richer, their people will want to enjoy the finer parts of life, such as cars and mass produced items. The production of these things often involves the burning of fuel, which produces CO2. Our planet's natural capacity to absorb our pollutants is already stretched, and as our populations grow this will put severe strain on our ecosystems.
Earth, a little blue ball of life in the void of space. It's diversity and hospitability are astounding, millions of species, trillions of creatures. Man is but one species, and it has transformed it from a primordial jungle into a gleaming civilization. However, his rise is as tragic as it is illustrious, for Earth suffers as he builds- the rain melts rocks, the oceans become a dead void, and smog as thick soup blankets entire swaths of land. Granted, this might sound like a bunch of mumbo-jumbo that will occur a zillion years from now, but are you willing to say that destroying the planet of your grandchildren and great-grandchildren does not faze you? Earth is not just your home or my home, it is the home of all mankind. Pollution is our greatest test since the atom bomb, and if we fail, man's story will end.
-Penguin
you realize that the earth is going to keep doing what it does, regardless of what we do, right?
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Ok, this is getting very derailed. Do we really need, yet another, thrashing about the environment?
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Ok, this is getting very derailed. Do we really need, yet another, thrashing about the environment?
Danggit Skuzzy.. I've spent the last few minutes compiling an well though out and educated rebuttal of Penguin's passage from a science book and it just occurred to me that it'll just get skuzzified.
That's OK though.. this whole thread has gotten WAY off track! Back to the original discussion guys!
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Danggit Skuzzy.. I've spent the last few minutes compiling an well though out and educated rebuttal of Penguin's passage from a science book and it just occurred to me that it'll just get skuzzified.
That's OK though.. this whole thread has gotten WAY off track! Back to the original discussion guys!
don't they all eventually get off track hetre? :devil
i'd like to read what you got though.........and penguins stuff is nothing more than what the euro/uk fearmong....uumm....news casters, and "scientists" brainwash those poor people with. :noid
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Ok, this is getting very derailed. Do we really need, yet another, thrashing about the environment?
But, I like to hear the explanations of all the experts. Haven't you realized yet that we are all Lawyers, Brain sergeants, Network/Computer experts, WWII everything experts, race car drivers, teachers, experts in world economics, quantum physics . . . . . . should I go on? We (and you) can learn so many things from these discussions :lol
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #5
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See Rule #5
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wow....lotta rule looking going on....... :noid
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See Rule #5
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See Rule #5
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See Rule #2
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See Rule #2
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See Rule #2
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See Rule #2
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See Rule #2
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See Rule #2
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#see rule 12
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Haaaw, haw, haw. I was already in, but with all the wood shampoo occurring, I'm just wondering where the lock is... The thread has strayed like a drunken Kardashian visiting a frat house (after a 4 hour bike ride).
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they all stray eventually. it just seems that one or more of us pissed off the skuzzmeister, 'specially considering it's been ages since i've seen a "rule #2" used.
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they all stray eventually. it just seems that one or more of us pissed off the skuzzmeister, 'specially considering it's been ages since i've seen a "rule #2" used.
Yes, indeed. Hijacking seems to be a frequent occurrence. I'd recommend they get that rule set down to a bare minimum of "never do" type things. Otherwise, it ends up looking a little whimsical in application.
Even so, it's hilarious unless you're on the receiving end of it. Dare I use the word "tetchy"?
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Well I hope the OP got some useful input. In the end it is up to your Mom as to what vehicle she is comfortable with.
There is no be all, end all as far as choice. There are too many variables... from driver to tires to condition of vehicle maintenance wise.
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Well I hope the OP got some useful input. In the end it is up to your Mom as to what vehicle she is comfortable with.
There is no be all, end all as far as choice. There are too many variables... from driver to tires to condition of vehicle maintenance wise.
Indeed. Not only does design execution vary, so does the design objective - and that's true of every attribute.
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they all stray eventually. it just seems that one or more of us pissed off the skuzzmeister, 'specially considering it's been ages since i've seen a "rule #2" used.
I do not get "pissed off". No reason to. Typically, the edits have to do with making an attempt to keep a thread alive by trying to keep it civil. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not.
In my experience, with this board, any thread left alone long enough will degrade to quite unacceptable manifestations of frothy behavior, laced with angst, hatred, and a good dose of frustration tossed in for good measure. At that point there are usually suspensions and/or bannings that have to be dealt with.
Then we have to listen to the banned/suspended yell and scream about what jerks we are, all posted at some other board or urban dictionary, all due to the poster not being able to accept responsibility for their own behavior.
So, no anger involved on my part. Just a cold, calculated attempt to keep things civil.
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I do not get "pissed off". No reason to. Typically, the edits have to do with making an attempt to keep a thread alive by trying to keep it civil. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not.
In my experience, with this board, any thread left alone long enough will degrade to quite unacceptable manifestations of frothy behavior, laced with angst, hatred, and a good dose of frustration tossed in for good measure. At that point there are usually suspensions and/or bannings that have to be dealt with.
Then we have to listen to the banned/suspended yell and scream about what jerks we are, all posted at some other board or urban dictionary, all due to the poster not being able to accept responsibility for their own behavior.
So, no anger involved on my part. Just a cold, calculated attempt to keep things civil.
Well....for all the difference it may or may not make....i don't intentionally try to do that. i think others don't as well, although there are those that try to push limits.
that being said.........i'm glad you manage to keep from being pissed....and often wonder how you manage it.
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Well....for all the difference it may or may not make....i don't intentionally try to do that. Go to the AvA i think others don't as well, although there are those that try to push limits. Go to the AvA
that being said.........i'm glad you manage to keep from being pissed..Go to the AvA..and often wonder how you manage it.
:huh
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:huh
:rofl :aok :neener:
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:rofl ... priceless Ded !!!
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:rofl ... priceless Ded !!!
Been LMAO since I wrote it :rofl
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:rofl :rofl
4 paper towel cleanup, free nose rinse.
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I do not get "pissed off". No reason to. Typically, the edits have to do with making an attempt to keep a thread alive by trying to keep it civil. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not.
In my experience, with this board, any thread left alone long enough will degrade to quite unacceptable manifestations of frothy behavior, laced with angst, hatred, and a good dose of frustration tossed in for good measure. At that point there are usually suspensions and/or bannings that have to be dealt with.
Then we have to listen to the banned/suspended yell and scream about what jerks we are, all posted at some other board or urban dictionary, all due to the poster not being able to accept responsibility for their own behavior.
So, no anger involved on my part. Just a cold, calculated attempt to keep things civil.
:uhoh
-Penguin
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Well....for all the difference it may or may not make....i don't intentionally try to do that. i think others don't as well, although there are those that try to push limits.
that being said.........i'm glad you manage to keep from being pissed....and often wonder how you manage it.
Intentions have got nothing to do with it, you either do or don't/did or didn't.
Skuzzy doesn't ever get mad, he just gets even. :D
:huh
+1 :rofl