Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Threeup on July 27, 2011, 11:37:10 PM
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At the risk of banging a much worn out drum, here goes.
This is a great game. I find more now for the people you fight with and against rather than the score, K/D, hit percentage or kills landed. You catch up with people and have a laugh. You fight sometimes the same people and know after about two or three turns their style and if you are in for a whooping or not and how humiliating that whopping is going to be. Then you can either have a mutual <S> or a barrage of abuse over 200 that ends in a mutual <S> - or at the most a grudging respect. It’s all good times except........
I just can’t get next to why F3 is allowed in the DA, for the life of me. I haunt the DA probably as much as the MA for the most part. No crime in that. It’s my $15.00 ($14.08 my money today by the way) and if I want to fly a Spit XVI in the DA (or the MA for that matter) and you don’t like it - well - you don't like it - end of story. There are some good people in the DA. Great place for merging and gunnery practice... and a laugh.
But there seems to be a group of people that refuse to fly in the MA and some are quite honest about using outside view exclusively. Not only that they are very quick to talk their game up based on that. The game is never a level playing field – alt energy - plane differences – skill differences – attitude make that so. It’s not “New Sports Day” where everyone gets a prize.
But at least one glaring inconsistency can be removed to at least get to a point where it is worthwhile and can really hone your game.
As I said, it’s been raised before and it probably will again. I don’t want to change the world, just a small portion of it.
Cheers.
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I agree that F3 should be eliminated in the DA. I don't get why it's even available there.
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if I want to fly a Spit XVI in the DA (or the MA for that matter) and you don’t like it - well - you don't like it - end of story.
well people that use f3 in the DA do so because they want to... you don't have to use it is the same principle, the DA is a place for furballing, practicing and.. well dueling! beeing f3 allowed overthere won't mean you will have to use it... i don't use it but i know its there and i know people use it. I guess the DA has the F3 for new users and such like practicing, getting used to the game etc.
Sum: the f3 is there, there are people that use it already, you don't have to use it. (if you want a fair duel ask for the film :D )
I just wish DA had an area like tank town island: furballing, tanking, air support... (not beeing bombers available :D)
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Tell you what threeup,
Get rid of the spit16, and we have a deal on getting rid of f3 :aok
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Without being completely obvious, the Spit XVI is a plane within the plane set within the game and, ENY and World War 2 eras aside, is available in both the MA and DA. If it was not authentic it wouldn’t be in the game, would it? If HTC destroyed the file for the Spit XVI, I would fly a Spit VIII and if that was destroyed a Spit IX and so on. But I don’t believe that will happen. If it does life will go on.
And trying to divert the discussion onto something else isn’t really achieving much. If you want to get into a slanging match, look elsewhere.
I bought up a difference in the mode of available vision between probably the two most frequented arenas in this game and asked aloud why it was so and what purpose it served by having outside view enabled in the DA and expressed an opinion. That’s it.
If it’s for training or familiarity purposes isn’t it just delaying the day when you have to look through a cartoon birdcage and fire “over the nose” hoping that your judgement is correct? It’s not like the stall limiter where it assists you to a point where you have to “take off the training wheels” to be competitive.
Having outside view enabled in the DA is, in my opinion, redundant. That’s my view. It doesn’t mean I’m going to quit going to the DA or the game or anything really. I merely wanted to gauge opinion.
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i'm sure with the new custom maps there will be some regular arenas that become a haven for people who want to dogfight fairly.
The scrubs in the lake can play with themselves.
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Without being completely obvious, the Spit XVI is a plane within the plane set within the game and, ENY and World War 2 eras aside, is available in both the MA and DA. If it was not authentic it wouldn’t be in the game, would it? If HTC destroyed the file for the Spit XVI, I would fly a Spit VIII and if that was destroyed a Spit IX and so on. But I don’t believe that will happen. If it does life will go on.
The ME262 is a jet within the World War 2 era plane set that i believe saw more action than the spit16. It is NOT in the DA because it is commonly stated that if it was put in the DA then the lake would become nothing more than a jet-filled furball.
If you were to take a tally of the most flown aircraft in the DA, i'd bet a couple perkies that you'd come up with the spit16 by a HUGE margin.We've both seen how bad that place becomes a spit16 horde.
The lake in the most part is nothing but spit16 territory.
So, in all technicality, the spit16 should be banned along the same lines that the ME262 is banned.
And trying to divert the discussion onto something else isn’t really achieving much. If you want to get into a slanging match, look elsewhere.
Not really, Your asking to take away something i like, so im asking You to take away something you like as well.
I'll admit it, i like f3 mode sometimes. i use it whenever i feel like flying a plane who's cocpit i absolutely hate. (p47D11,p40B,ki-84)
Whenever i get out of a furball, i'll put her on autopilot then go into F3 mode to take a quick look at the aircraft to make sure i dont have any gaping holes in important places.
and sometimes i just cruise along in f3 mode to admire the plane (which i do alot in the G-2) People worry too much about making this game more competitive and less fun. No one forces YOU to fly in f3 mode, so if you don't like it then simply fly in the cockpit.
But like i said, Your asking to get rid of something i like (F3 mode).
so im asking to get rid of something you like (spit16).
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so it stays clear. im not trolling and not against spit16, im just saying that some people use the f3 sigth in the duel arena, well its ok, if you don't like that just go to the MAs or to some custom arenas
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The ME262 is a jet within the World War 2 era plane set that i believe saw more action than the spit16.
Wow where did you come up with that one? You realize the RV16 is just a spit IX with a E type wing and a 266 motor as opposed to the IXe with a 66 motor.
I'm sure there's a bunch of RCAF pilots rolling in their graves after hearing that one.
:salute
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Not really, Your asking to take away something i like, so im asking You to take away something you like as well.
I'll admit it, i like f3 mode sometimes. i use it whenever i feel like flying a plane who's cocpit i absolutely hate. (p47D11,p40B,ki-84)
Whenever i get out of a furball, i'll put her on autopilot then go into F3 mode to take a quick look at the aircraft to make sure i dont have any gaping holes in important places.
and sometimes i just cruise along in f3 mode to admire the plane (which i do alot in the G-2) People worry too much about making this game more competitive and less fun. No one forces YOU to fly in f3 mode, so if you don't like it then simply fly in the cockpit.
But like i said, Your asking to get rid of something i like (F3 mode).
so im asking to get rid of something you like (spit16).
maybe you should play HAWX for the 360 then...
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oh snap
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I don't use padlock, but i know some people do. :)
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Wow where did you come up with that one? You realize the RV16 is just a spit IX with a E type wing and a 266 motor as opposed to the IXe with a 66 motor.
I'm sure there's a bunch of RCAF pilots rolling in their graves after hearing that one.
:salute
i have done little to no research on the spit 16 in the war.
I just remember a time when alot of people were saying on the forums that the spit16 didn't deserve to be in the game because it supposedly didn't get any AvA kills because it arrived too late in the war to do so.
Me262's scored multiple confirmed kills.
from Wikipedia (its 3:01, im too tired to do hardcore research at this hour) The ME262 had 509 confirmed allied kills.
After a quick search of "spitfire XVI kills of world war 2" i have found no evidence that the XVI variant ever scored an AvA kill. (but its most likely due to me being too tired to search thourghly )
So unless the XVI has more than 509 confirmed kills, than the ME262 has seen more combat than it.
So far the only thing ive been able to find the XVI was used for was ground attack http://www.aviationmuseum.com.au/aircraft/spitfiremkxvi.cfm
But i dont know how credible that website is, since that type of spitfire does not look like an XVI, even tho they call it one.
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<Smacks Tyrannis> Enough with the Spit 16 rants. It's the same exact bird ans the Spit LFIXe. Only difference being the engine is American made Packard Merlin 266 vs a Rolls Royce made Merlin 66. Switch the engines of a 9 to a 16 and it becomes a 9. Switch the 16 engine to a 9 and it becomes a 16. We've discussed the kills they got over and over again. As most were flying with 2 TAF they were supporting the ground troops. And frankly the opposition in the air just wasn't there. but they had many kills and many squadrons flew them.
As you clearly know little about the 16, it's best to step back a bit and learn first before you make foolish statements regarding the Spitfire XVI.
If you are serious about learning, then I suggest you research 602 Squadron RAF and what they did with their 16s. And I'd research 403 Squadron RCAF to see what they did with thier 16s. That's just a starting point for you.
If that's too much work, then quit worrying about them and shoot em down.
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Thx Guppy,
I was too lazy to look up any references but I should have said 403rd. Although I'm sure those that want to learn would have taken a clue from my RCAF reference.
One story about a certain plane and all of a sudden people start staing facts that arent true. I agree with ya Guppy,just shoot them down,hmmmm maybe use a brewster....... :devil
:salute
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The ME262 is a jet within the World War 2 era plane set that i believe saw more action than the spit16.
Where do you come up with this stuff?! :rofl :rofl :rofl
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:noid i tot they took out the f3 mode already... up till today i still dunno how these fellas can shoot in f3 mode esp ghi in his il2...is it really easier ?? i only use the f3 mode in MA for buffs...
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<Smacks Tyrannis> Enough with the Spit 16 rants. It's the same exact bird ans the Spit LFIXe. Only difference being the engine is American made Packard Merlin 266 vs a Rolls Royce made Merlin 66. Switch the engines of a 9 to a 16 and it becomes a 9. Switch the 16 engine to a 9 and it becomes a 16. We've discussed the kills they got over and over again. As most were flying with 2 TAF they were supporting the ground troops. And frankly the opposition in the air just wasn't there. but they had many kills and many squadrons flew them.
As you clearly know little about the 16, it's best to step back a bit and learn first before you make foolish statements regarding the Spitfire XVI.
If you are serious about learning, then I suggest you research 602 Squadron RAF and what they did with their 16s. And I'd research 403 Squadron RCAF to see what they did with thier 16s. That's just a starting point for you.
If that's too much work, then quit worrying about them and shoot em down.
I thought besides the engine, the wings are different too....
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I thought besides the engine, the wings are different too....
Nope. Came off the same production lines. Last time we went through this I posted photos of two Spits one a 9 and one a 16 and they were back to back serial numbers. E wing was standard on the 9 and 16 at the time the 16 showed up in 44.
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Nope. Came off the same production lines. Last time we went through this I posted photos of two Spits one a 9 and one a 16 and they were back to back serial numbers. E wing was standard on the 9 and 16 at the time the 16 showed up in 44.
Googled...
In game, the XVI has clipped wing tips, the IX doesn't, so in game, they do have different wings.
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Googled...
In game, the XVI has clipped wing tips, the IX doesn't, so in game, they do have different wings.
Taking off or adding the wing tips was about a 15 minute task. We have a Spitfire FIX in game from 1942-43 with full span wings. The IX was in production longer then that and the majority of Spitfire IX production were Spitfire LFIX with Merlin 66. Many also had clipped wings in 44-45 as they were doing the same job down low as the Spitfire LFXVI with the Merlin 266. The reality in AH based on performance is that our Spitfire LFXVI is really a Spitfire LFIXe, but since they're the same, it really doesn't matter :)
We've been through this all before and with pictures too! :)
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I guess the DA has the F3 for new users and such like practicing, getting used to the game etc.
thats what the TA is for ...
DA should have the same view settings as MAs, and F5 shouldnt be available in either for anything.
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<Smacks Tyrannis> Enough with the Spit 16 rants. It's the same exact bird ans the Spit LFIXe. Only difference being the engine is American made Packard Merlin 266 vs a Rolls Royce made Merlin 66. Switch the engines of a 9 to a 16 and it becomes a 9. Switch the 16 engine to a 9 and it becomes a 16. We've discussed the kills they got over and over again. As most were flying with 2 TAF they were supporting the ground troops. And frankly the opposition in the air just wasn't there. but they had many kills and many squadrons flew them.
As you clearly know little about the 16, it's best to step back a bit and learn first before you make foolish statements regarding the Spitfire XVI.
If you are serious about learning, then I suggest you research 602 Squadron RAF and what they did with their 16s. And I'd research 403 Squadron RCAF to see what they did with thier 16s. That's just a starting point for you.
If that's too much work, then quit worrying about them and shoot em down.
<smacks back> nothing you have said has proved me wrong in what i said about the spit16 in the DA.
The ME262 was banned from fears that it would become nothing but a jet furball lake, the spit16 is the top plane used in the DA by a HUGE margin.
We've all seen the hordes of spit16's in that lake. So in all fairness the spit16 should be banned along the same lines as the me262 is: Because its the top flown plane by a LARGE margin.
and dont give me the "learn to fight the 16.." crap. when your in a mustang and you get swarmed by a horde of 10k spit16s there is little you can do to fight them off by yourself.
And it ruins the diversity of he lake when you up to fight nothing but the spit 16 over and over and over.
Like i said, He's asking to ban something i like, so im asking to ban something he likes :bhead
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So shoot em down. Or grab one yourself and shoot em down.
OK so you ban 16s. There will be another horde to take their place.
And lets be clear, I was responding to your 5 minute google search on Me-262 kills vs Spit 16 kills. You were trying to imply that the 16 wasn't a combat bird which is an absolutely ridiculous claim.
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I am not pro or con Spit 16. I notice Spit16s fall to the ground in a flaming mass of shards just as any plane. Fun to fly. Fun to shoot down.
If you are in a plane against a Spit16 and feel there is inequality...well what are you doing in a position that put you in such a favorable position to be shot down by one? :eek:
Every plane is like a chess piece. Maybe try not to fly against one that puts you in an inevitable negative advantage and outcome.
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So shoot em down. Or grab one yourself and shoot em down.
OK so you ban 16s. There will be another horde to take their place.
When that arena becomes nothing more than shooting at&getting shot down by spit16 hordes, then its become a problem.
i choose not to fly the spit, took those training wheels off along time ago.
And the lake is about diversity, not the same plane over and over,upping sortie after sortie to be pounced on by the same cloud of 20+ spit16s is ridiculous, a feeling shared by many in there.
And no, other than the spit dweebs, the place isent very bad. Only other plane problem in that arena is the pick/HO&run tempy pilots. but other than them no other plane gets horded. Banning the spit16 would be the best thing for the DA.
And quiet frankly Guppy, ive never seen you in the DA. or at least at the lake, so are YOU really qualified enough to pass judgement down on a subject concerning the lake, if you never fly in it?
And lets be clear, I was responding to your 5 minute google search on Me-262 kills vs Spit 16 kills. You were trying to imply that the 16 wasn't a combat bird which is an absolutely ridiculous claim.
Not Originally, originally i was saying the me262 saw more combat action than the spit16. (a claim i am yet to be proven wrong on).
This was challenged, and upon doing a quick search, i could find no records of the spitfire XVI making any air to air kills. all i could find is that 1 website claiming it was used in ground attack.
Frankly Guppy, the spitXVI does not interest me enough for me to prompt further research into it other than my "5 min googling" at 3 a.m in the morning.
And no, I never claimed it wasent a combat bird. I claimed OTHERS had said it wasent a combat bird. Thrash's old spitXVI thread comes to mind when i say this.
So maybe you should reread what i say before you start making accusations.
oh, and btw i use yahoo. ;)
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Not Originally, originally i was saying the me262 saw more combat action than the spit16. (a claim i am yet to be proven wrong on).
This was challenged, and upon doing a quick search, i could find no records of the spitfire XVI making any air to air kills. all i could find is that 1 website claiming it was used in ground attack.
Frankly Guppy, the spitXVI does not interest me enough for me to prompt further research into it other than my "5 min googling" at 3 a.m in the morning.
And no, I never claimed it wasent a combat bird. I claimed OTHERS had said it wasent a combat bird. Thrash's old spitXVI thread comes to mind when i say this.
So maybe you should reread what i say before you start making accusations.
oh, and btw i use yahoo. ;)
Just so I'm understanding this correctly, you're saying that you made a statement off the top of your head w/out the research or facts at your disposal. Then someone comes along who has done as much if not more Spitfire research than just about anyone here, you challenge his command of the facts then say you can't be bothered to actually sit down and see who's right?
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i have done little to no research on the spit 16 in the war.
I just remember a time when alot of people were saying on the forums that the spit16 didn't deserve to be in the game because it supposedly didn't get any AvA kills because it arrived too late in the war to do so.
Me262's scored multiple confirmed kills.
from Wikipedia (its 3:01, im too tired to do hardcore research at this hour) The ME262 had 509 confirmed allied kills.
After a quick search of "spitfire XVI kills of world war 2" i have found no evidence that the XVI variant ever scored an AvA kill. (but its most likely due to me being too tired to search thourghly )
So unless the XVI has more than 509 confirmed kills, than the ME262 has seen more combat than it.
So far the only thing ive been able to find the XVI was used for was ground attack http://www.aviationmuseum.com.au/aircraft/spitfiremkxvi.cfm
But i dont know how credible that website is, since that type of spitfire does not look like an XVI, even tho they call it one.
I call your straw man and raise you one false dilemma... :rolleyes:
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Just so I'm understanding this correctly, you're saying that you made a statement off the top of your head w/out the research or facts at your disposal. Then someone comes along who has done as much if not more Spitfire research than just about anyone here, (http://you challenge his command of the facts then say you can't be bothered to actually sit down and see who's right)?
I simply do not care who's right and who's wrong because whether im right or he's right it still doesn't change the fact i originally presented, the spit16 should be banned from the DA.
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the spit16 should be banned from the DA.
Why? Instead of using the Spit16s in large numbers, they will something else like Tempests or Fw190s.
As for debating Corky on the Spitfire, you're going to lose big time.
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it still doesn't change the fact i originally presented, the spit16 should be banned from the DA.
for reference, this is the 'fact' originally presented to prove the spit16 should be banned from the DA :rolleyes:
The ME262...is NOT in the DA because it is commonly stated that if it was put in the DA then the lake would become nothing more than a jet-filled furball.
If you were to take a tally of the most flown aircraft in the DA, i'd bet a couple perkies that you'd come up with the spit16 by a HUGE margin.We've both seen how bad that place becomes a spit16 horde.
The lake in the most part is nothing but spit16 territory.
So, in all technicality, the spit16 should be banned along the same lines that the ME262 is banned.
a watertight argument if i ever saw one
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Just so I'm understanding this correctly, you're saying that you made a statement off the top of your head w/out the research or facts at your disposal. Then someone comes along who has done as much if not more Spitfire research than just about anyone here, you challenge his command of the facts then say you can't be bothered to actually sit down and see who's right?
Yawns... Haven't we been through this a bunch with other threads with this guy? Soulyss, It's a lost cause trying to reason with this one with facts!
All the Best...
Jay
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I went to the DA once and this is all I saw...................
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb298/jlmcgowan/John%20at%20Renassaince%20Fair/9138.jpg)
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i went to WW1 and this is what i saw
(http://www.mimaggie.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Baby-A1.jpg)
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The DA is just another training arena. Let them have whatever they want to try to learn in.
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I simply do not care who's right and who's wrong because whether im right or he's right it still doesn't change the fact i originally presented, the spit16 should be banned from the DA.
No...
Why should the DA be any different than the MA where spit16's are all over?
Additionally, if your 51 is getting ganged, you are not flying it like you should be against the Spit, change your tactics. I would also say that a gang of Hurri I's would kill you too, is that a reason to ban them?
YMMV
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No...
Why should the DA be any different than the MA where spit16's are all over?
Additionally, if your 51 is getting ganged, you are not flying it like you should be against the Spit, change your tactics. I would also say that a gang of Hurri I's would kill you too, is that a reason to ban them?
YMMV
the differences between the MA and DA are noticeable enough to where i don't need to point them out.
And please inform me what is the proper tactic to fighting a gang of spit16s that have a 5k alt advantage on you? this is usually what it becomes.
no, hurr1's lack the speed to keep up with most late war rides. that is not a proper simile.
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And please inform me what is the proper tactic to fighting a gang of spit16s that have a 5k alt advantage on you? this is usually what it becomes.
Kill them all was generally the tactic I preferred. Your tactics may vary.
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Tyrannis, you're forgetting that many will go for the path of least resistance. If the Spit16 is removed, they will fly the next similar plane or something faster which needs 25miles to turn around (ie 190s). Would you rather have a 'gang of C-Hogs or Tempests with 5k advantage on you'?
Be happy, at least the Spit16s will fight.
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Kill them all was generally the tactic I preferred. Your tactics may vary.
But but but that might take some time, energy, learning and practice! I want them gone right now! :)
So here's the secret Tyrannis, since it appears you are a 51 driver. Climb higher, keep your speed up, and BnZ em to death. Since Furball lake is a free for all, seems to me taking away a turn fighting bird like the Spit XVI would be counter to what Furball lake is all about.
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And please inform me what is the proper tactic to fighting a gang of spit16s that have a 5k alt advantage on you? this is usually what it becomes.
Climb 5K higher than them (duh).
no, hurr1's lack the speed to keep up with most late war rides. that is not a proper simile.
Yes... Not recently, but I have plenty of kills in a Hurri I, against late war rides too... It use to be one of my favorite base defense planes... It's SO funny to watch a Spit XVI try to TNB me... (here, have some .303's, lots of them) :x
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Kill them all was generally the tactic I preferred. Your tactics may vary.
1 plane vs 10 spit16s is an almost-unwinniable situation. get on 1 of there 6's, you get 5 more on yours.
Tyrannis, you're forgetting that many will go for the path of least resistance. If the Spit16 is removed, they will fly the next similar plane or something faster which needs 25miles to turn around (ie 190s). Would you rather have a 'gang of C-Hogs or Tempests with 5k advantage on you'?
Be happy, at least the Spit16s will fight.
The 190 has one glaring weakness tho (its turn radius). The C-hogs as well.
If the spit16 was removed, the next plane i see to be horded would most likely be the tempest. But all temp pilots do is HO&run, even tho thats annoying, it is easily solvable by simply dodging the HO.
The spit16 can outturn almost anything flown, climb with almost everything flown, and can outrun almost everything flown.
but still, my main point stand. the ME262 was banned because of its dreaded popularity. the spit16 has the lake popularity by a LARGE margin. so ether ban the spit16 like the 262 is, or give us the 262.
But but but that might take some time, energy, learning and practice! I want them gone right now! :)
So here's the secret Tyrannis, since it appears you are a 51 driver. Climb higher, keep your speed up, and BnZ em to death. Since Furball lake is a free for all, seems to me taking away a turn fighting bird like the Spit XVI would be counter to what Furball lake is all about.
No guppy, i was just using the pony as an example plane. but anyways,
So, your tactic to counter the alt-monkey spit16 dweebs, would be for me to become an alt-monkey myself? and adopt the tactics of tempy pilots by climbing high & doing nothing but BnZ'ing?
If everyone did that, then the spit16 pilots would just climb higher, then the non-spit dweebs would attempt to climb higher than them. until the lake is nothing but a mess in the clouds.
like i said before Guppy, how much do YOU fly in there? i dont remember ever seeing you in there. so are YOU really the best person to give advice on how to fight in an arena you never seem to fly in? :headscratch:
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I simply do not care who's right and who's wrong because whether I'm right or he's right it still doesn't change the fact i originally presented, the spit16 should be banned from the DA.
Or you should learn to fight outside your comfort zone.....or get out of the game, since i guess you cant hack it in there.
Had to edit after I saw your bit about turn radius. The chog will turn and well when handled correctly, and from your lack of knowledge in several key a/c in this game its no surprise your shot down as much as you are.
You need to change a/c and tactics in a/c you think you know cause its not workin real well for you.
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I spend my time flying down low in a P38G hoping to get folks to come down. I like fighting Spits including 16s. I don't see the problem.
You seem frustrated that you are being ganged by higher Spit 16s. Well your options are simple. Get above them, or accept the fact that by flying lower you are going to get jumped and have at it. I was told loud and clear in the DA at Furball Lake that anything goes. If you want a 1 v 1 use one of the other fields.
In the end you have a choice in this. You change the way you fly, you change where you fly, or you don't fly. What you continue to look for is someone else to solve your problem. So while you demand others change to fit your style, you show no willingness to take action on your own.
HTC is supposed to change the game, remove a favorite plane because you don't like how guys flying it treat you?
I understand that by flying a P38G down low against higher birds, the odds of my 'living' are slim. But the fights sure are fun!
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I spend my time flying down low in a P38G hoping to get folks to come down. I like fighting Spits including 16s. I don't see the problem.
You seem frustrated that you are being ganged by higher Spit 16s. Well your options are simple. Get above them, or accept the fact that by flying lower you are going to get jumped and have at it. I was told loud and clear in the DA at Furball Lake that anything goes. If you want a 1 v 1 use one of the other fields.
In the end you have a choice in this. You change the way you fly, you change where you fly, or you don't fly. What you continue to look for is someone else to solve your problem. So while you demand others change to fit your style, you show no willingness to take action on your own.
HTC is supposed to change the game, remove a favorite plane because you don't like how guys flying it treat you?
I understand that by flying a P38G down low against higher birds, the odds of my 'living' are slim. But the fights sure are fun!
No, When the lake tends to become nothing more than a cloud of 1 plane, then there is a problem.I am not the only one in the lake that shares this view.
But still, as ive been saying. the ME262 was banned because it would become too popular in the lake. the spit16 is VERY popular in the lake.
So ether ban the spit16, for the same reasons the me262 is banned, or give us the me262, because that whole "too popular" doesn't seem to matter to every aircraft.
and Vudu... maybe you should learn to fight the ME262 in the DA outside your comfort zone...so unban the me262, or get out of the game, if you "Cant hack it".
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We've all seen the hordes of spit16's in that lake. So in all fairness the spit16 should be banned along the same lines as the me262 is: Because its the top flown plane by a LARGE margin.
This is the worst logic I have ever heard. Why would you ban a plane that your customers obviously love to fly?
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No, When the lake tends to become nothing more than a cloud of 1 plane, then there is a problem.I am not the only one in the lake that shares this view.
But still, as ive been saying. the ME262 was banned because it would become too popular in the lake. the spit16 is VERY popular in the lake.
So ether ban the spit16, for the same reasons the me262 is banned, or give us the me262, because that whole "too popular" doesn't seem to matter to every aircraft.
and Vudu... maybe you should learn to fight the ME262 in the DA outside your comfort zone...so unban the me262, or get out of the game, if you "Cant hack it".
So your counter to the Spit 16 would be the 262 which would be an E fighter that needs alt to work with. Seems to me a Tempest, Mustang, C Hog or any number of other birds could solve your problem.
I sure don't care if what you are really after is the 262. I've long been of the unperk em all, let em fly what that want crowd. But using the 16 as your excuse is just silly.
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1 plane vs 10 spit16s is an almost-unwinniable situation. get on 1 of there 6's, you get 5 more on yours.
Either learn to deal with it, or do something else. Asking that HTC prevent those players from flying how they'd like is silly.
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This is the worst logic I have ever heard. Why would you ban a plane that your customers obviously love to fly?
Is it? the ME 262 is a beloved plane to fly, you out of all people should know this grizz, yet its banned from the DA is it not?
So your counter to the Spit 16 would be the 262 which would be an E fighter that needs alt to work with. Seems to me a Tempest, Mustang, C Hog or any number of other birds could solve your problem.
I sure don't care if what you are really after is the 262. I've long been of the unperk em all, let em fly what that want crowd. But using the 16 as your excuse is just silly.
no guppy, your still missing the point.
I dont want the me262 in the DA. but from what i know, the ME262 is banned from the DA because of its dreaded popularity.
the spit16 has the popularity of the lake by a HUGE margin.
So going by all rights, the spit16 should be banned for the same reason the me262 is banned.
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1 plane vs 10 spit16s is an almost-unwinniable situation. get on 1 of there 6's, you get 5 more on yours.
Ah man dude if only you would have engaged those 10 bad guys and they weren't Spit16s, you would have pwned them all.
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I guess the DA has the F3 for new users and such like practicing, getting used to the game etc.
What is the TA for again?
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Ive never had an issue with any 262s SA saves you with those cats. I flew in there the other day just checkin my j/s and I saw 1 D9, 1 spit16, 2 p51s, a 202, I was flyin a hurri1 and I saw a Brew. and I think one hog of some type wasn't a C though.
So Ill check in this evening for a 16 Horde. Horde that's a heck of a Buzzword in here, bet those 17 drivers over Berlin wanted HTC to step in and get rid of those hordes of LW fighters for em.
grow up a bit sir everyone has their day yours just happend to be a while back.
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Is it? the ME 262 is a beloved plane to fly, you out of all people should know this grizz, yet its banned from the DA is it not?
no guppy, your still missing the point.
I dont want the me262 in the DA. but from what i know, the ME262 is banned from the DA because of its dreaded popularity.
the spit16 has the popularity of the lake by a HUGE margin.
So going by all rights, the spit16 should be banned for the same reason the me262 is banned.
So you'd ban a furball airplane from furball lake because it gets under your skin because too many people fly it in your opinion. Still sounds like you want the game changed to make it easier for you.
So you lose all the 16s and they move into Spit VIIIs. Would that be better?
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So you'd ban a furball airplane from furball lake because it gets under your skin because too many people fly it in your opinion. Still sounds like you want the game changed to make it easier for you.
So you lose all the 16s and they move into Spit VIIIs. Would that be better?
Spit VIII is more uber anyway :P
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Spit VIII is more uber anyway :P
I prefer it to the XVI.
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VIII and XVI are the same performance specs, for all intents and purposes.
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Is it? the ME 262 is a beloved plane to fly, you out of all people should know this grizz, yet its banned from the DA is it not?
no guppy, your still missing the point.
I dont want the me262 in the DA. but from what i know, the ME262 is banned from the DA because of its dreaded popularity.
the spit16 has the popularity of the lake by a HUGE margin.
So going by all rights, the spit16 should be banned for the same reason the me262 is banned.
The 262 is banned because it is a detriment to a furball with everyone flying perkless jets around. It's just too polarizing, either be in a jet or be killed by a jet, thus turning it into Jet Lake.
There's nothing detrimental at all about a spit16. In fact, they are quite easy to kill. It's just another propeller airplane flown by the unskilled masses.
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I dont want the me262 in the DA. but from what i know, the ME262 is banned from the DA because of its dreaded popularity.
the spit16 has the popularity of the lake by a HUGE margin.
I'd be willing to speculate comfortably that there is a teensy bit more reason than its 'dreaded popularity'. One possible factor might be the ~80-100mph speed difference between it and the fastest prop planes. If the jet driver has a bit of basic competence and has a ton of patience, it practically can't be touched by anything else. Yes, yes, the spixteen has a lot of great qualities, but nothing that is as easily exploitable as that speed difference alone.
Sorry, Tyrannis, but it's not even a close comparison.
Wiley.
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"Ah man dude if only you would have engaged those 10 bad guys and they weren't Spit16s,
you would have pwned them all. "
lol. bullseye :)
Wish HTC would add this.
(http://www.strijdbewijs.nl/birds/spitfire/secret/NG28.jpg)
Would really give the whiner a coronary.
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The spit16 can outturn almost anything flown, climb with almost everything flown, and can outrun almost everything flown.
If you are available tonight or tomorrow after 8:30pm est, I'll show you how to defeat a Spit16 that is higher than you. In fact, you'll find that defeating higher Spit16s is actually easier than many co-alt Spit16s. Against someone that knows what they are doing it is a different story but then again, it wouldn't matter what airframe the experienced guy is in.
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I fly F3 when I fight 3up...thats how I get most of his kills lmao <S> 3up :banana:
fudmukkr.
I fly F3 when I'm cruising to the FB to look around and maybe a few screen shots on the way..I fly F1 when fighting..can't see where the pipper is when in F3 mode...
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You guys are missing the point here. Tyrannis is just throwing a temper tantrum because some one suggested that F3 be removed from the DA. I think he said if I can't have my F3 then you can't have the spit16.
He's just stomping his feet because some body might miss with the only way he can fly. Your building one heck of a reputation around here Tyrannis! LOL
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Pfft... 'on topic' is no fun, Fugi.
As to the F3 thing, other than for bombers I really don't understand why it's even in the game. It adds nothing to the game other than the ability to gun from ridiculous angles, and see aircraft from impossible angles. While it's somewhat of an advantage, is it possible that its impact on the game might be a tad overblown, kind of like spiez?
Wiley.
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You guys are missing the point here. Tyrannis is just throwing a temper tantrum because some one suggested that F3 be removed from the DA. I think he said if I can't have my F3 then you can't have the spit16.
He's just stomping his feet because some body might miss with the only way he can fly. Your building one heck of a reputation around here Tyrannis! LOL
Aw fugitive, i wish i had enough time to sit around on my backside all day and do nothing but fly a cartoon plane around.
maybe then i'd have an ego as big as yours! :O
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Make a compromise.
Leave F3 enabled in the DA.
Disable weapons when in F3 mode.
Coogan
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Aw fugitive, i wish i had enough time to sit around on my backside all day and do nothing but fly a cartoon plane around.
maybe then i'd have an ego as big as yours! :O
Watch it :old: I see cartoons in your future :old:
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See Rule #6
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Aw fugitive, i wish i had enough time to sit around on my backside all day and do nothing but fly a cartoon plane around.
maybe then i'd have an ego as big as yours! :O
To me, Fugi just summed up the situation very well. :aok
As for the Spit16, I really enjoy flying the 9 and 16. They are pure dogfighters and are a joy to fly down low and slow. Tyrannis, please stop complaining about them because some do like flying them. My main ride is the 51 and I've fought down low and slow in it many times. I'll admit it's nice to get the kill in that situation, but in all honesty, the Spits are so much smoother and are so much more fit for the down low angles fight. The scope of a P51 angles fight is relatively limited as compared to a Spit16, and that's why I do like to fly it once in a while.
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Let's break this down
1 plane vs 10 spit16s is an almost-unwinniable situation.
Nope, not if you are higher and faster?
get on 1 of there 6's, you get 5 more on yours.
You need better SA then.
The 190 has one glaring weakness tho (its turn radius). The C-hogs as well.
My hog will out turn your blessed 51 at all but the highest speeds. Wanna DA? In case not, look here http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=p51d&p2=f4u1c (http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=p51d&p2=f4u1c)
The spit16 can outturn almost anything flown, climb with almost everything flown, and can outrun almost everything flown.
Nope, several turn better (Spit V, brewster, zeke), climb at least as well (Most 109's), and several can outrun a 16 depending on initial E state (any Hog, and your 51, plus more).
but still, my main point stand. the ME262 was banned because of its dreaded popularity.
No again, it was banned because it causes an imbalance in the arena.
the spit16 has the lake popularity by a LARGE margin.
And they are frequently easy kills, IF you use correct tactics.
So, your tactic to counter the alt-monkey spit16 dweebs, would be for me to become an alt-monkey myself?
Uh, yup. You do want to win right? It's dumb to try to turn fight a zeke in a 190 right, I see no difference If you can't beat them, join them.
If everyone did that, then the spit16 pilots would just climb higher, then the non-spit dweebs would attempt to climb higher than them. until the lake is nothing but a mess in the clouds.
Which would (A) work to your advantage as a dweeb 51 pilot and (B) so?
Now grab a tissue, wipe your nose, and learn how to fly and fight...
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F3 is right up there with using icons and spit 16's... :bolt:
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Scca, I see what you're getting at, but I think you exaggerated just a tad. :eek:
10v1 are ,imo ,almost an unwinnable situation unless flying something with excessive speed. And also, no amount of SA will keep people in a 6v1 from getting on your 6 at some point.
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Scca, I see what you're getting at, but I think you exaggerated just a tad. :eek:
10v1 are ,imo ,almost an unwinnable situation unless flying something with excessive speed. And also, no amount of SA will keep people in a 6v1 from getting on your 6 at some point.
Maybe a little bit, but you know as well as I, there are a few in the MA who avoid contact like the plague. They usually fly 51's and only engage on their terms (from an advantage always) and run like a girl when anything even close to equal or greater E is within icon range.
You have only two choices when outnumbered and are equal E, engage and get a few before they get you, or run...
Of course there is a third option, make a friend and even the odds a bit...
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Nope, not if you are higher and faster?
Yes because its SO EASY to judge the altitude and speed of enemy planes flying clear across the other side of the lake :rolleyes:
You need better SA then.
Yes because having 5 of best turning planes in the game on your 6 is just so easy to deal with, right? :rolleyes:
My hog will out turn your blessed 51 at all but the highest speeds. Wanna DA? In case not, look here http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=p51d&p2=f4u1c (http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=p51d&p2=f4u1c)
The Hog still has disadvantages against other planes that would prevent it from being horded for its OP'edness the way the spitXVI is, the p51 is NOT the only plane flown in there. therefore everything in this quote is invalid.
Nope, several turn better (Spit V, brewster, zeke), climb at least as well (Most 109's), and several can outrun a 16 depending on initial E state (any Hog, and your 51, plus more).
The spit V, Brewster, and Zeke all have a speed disadvantage allowing you to extend away from them so you dont get dragged into there style of fighting. Most 109s ive seen in the lake get chewed up by spit16s.(except my F4)
And ive never been able to outrun a spit16 in a pony, even with WEP on. so to that statement i give you a: :headscratch:
No again, it was banned because it causes an imbalance in the arena.
Well genius what type of imbalance would that be? Overflown. :rolleyes: The lake would become nothing but a jet furball. therefore its banned from the DA. the lake mostly becomes a giant spit16 furball at high numbers, therefore It should be banned for imbalance as well.
And they are frequently easy kills, IF you use correct tactics.
yes, BnZ, Pick them like a temp tard. so fun :rolleyes:
Uh, yup. You do want to win right? It's dumb to try to turn fight a zeke in a 190 right, I see no difference If you can't beat them, join them.
That a very stupid similie, not even worth spending the time to disect it.
Now grab a tissue, wipe your nose, and learn how to fly and fight...
No, i guess i should just stop discussing the subject with shrubs who spend maybe a day in the DA a month then feel they know whats best for the arena :rolleyes:
Half the people who have commented on the subject ive never even seen in there.
MA'ers passing judgement down on a DA situation without being a regular to the lake is like me trying to pass judgement down on whats best for FSO when ive never flown in FSO before :rolleyes:
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So the DA's F3 view should go the way of the Dodo.
How did this thread become a whine about the Spixteen? It's a plane. It's destroyable. If you have issues with killing it, maybe you need more practice against it.
And subscribing in 2010 with a current post count of 2401 isn't practice. Put those fingers and keyboard to game use, or read more on each plane's performance. You need some insight into a plane to take it down. :old:
Kill F3 mode. 2 weeks. :aok
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And ive never been able to outrun a spit16 in a pony, even with WEP on. so to that statement i give you a: :headscratch:
Clearly, you are doing something wrong then http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=p51d&p2=spit16 (http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=p51d&p2=spit16) :rock
I wish you luck, I can only speak facts so long before I realize it's time to bow out. :bhead
BTW, the DA is for dueling, furball lake is for people who want the fight, but don't want it to count. Oh, enjoy 5th grade, I remember it to be fun.
I'm :bolt:
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Clearly, you are doing something wrong then http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=p51d&p2=spit16 (http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=p51d&p2=spit16) :rock
I wish you luck, I can only speak facts so long before I realize it's time to bow out. :bhead
BTW, the DA is for dueling, furball lake is for people who want the fight, but don't want it to count. Oh, enjoy 5th grade, I remember it to be fun.
I'm :bolt:
You can show me a bunch of charts all you want scca, but when i have spit16's outrunning my pony what does your charts prove? that the spit16 cant do that?
guess what buddy, they do :rolleyes:
Going by the charts to judge what a plane is capable of is like going by someones score to determine how good they are at the game :rolleyes:
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*edit*
never mind it's just not worth it.
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You can show me a bunch of charts all you want scca, but when i have spit16's outrunning my pony what does your charts prove? that the spit16 cant do that?
You're either trolling or really quite bad at this game. I'd like to believe it's the former, but I fear it's probably the latter.
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You can show me a bunch of charts all you want scca, but when i have spit16's outrunning my pony what does your charts prove? that the spit16 cant do that?
guess what buddy, they do :rolleyes:
...So what you're saying is, you're flying your P51 (which is capable of greater speed than the spixteen) slower than the Spits can fly, and getting angry when they catch you?
Wow.
Wiley.
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You can show me a bunch of charts all you want scca, but when i have spit16's outrunning my pony what does your charts prove? that the spit16 cant do that?
guess what buddy, they do :rolleyes:
Going by the charts to judge what a plane is capable of is like going by someones score to determine how good they are at the game :rolleyes:
Omg, lol. :rofl
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You can show me a bunch of charts all you want scca, because proof isn't enough because I am not going to listen to reason or the facts?
Going by the charts to judge what a plane is capable of is like saying I don't know how to play this game because we all know I know everything :rolleyes:
Fixed
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i choose not to fly the spit, took those training wheels off along time ago.
While I admire your determination not to fly a spit... please do consider putting training wheels on whatever it is you *do* fly. :aok
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While I admire your determination not to fly a spit... please do consider putting training wheels on whatever it is you *do* fly. :aok
But he flys the next most easy mode plane, the 51 and :cry :cry when he can't out run a slower plane. :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Sorry, i'm done here.. <S> Cryannis, enjoy your pablum...
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Threeup , Threeup, Threeup....what did you do.........
oh it wasn't you hahaha....
As somebody has suggested no guns in F3 mode...this would work fine as those who want to keep it are just admiring their plane and looking for some photo shots so they say....(why you can't use the film viewer is beyond me...you can get much better angles...)
I'm with you get rid of F3 mode in DA if it is for training and posing purposes...what's wrong with the training arena?
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So you'd ban a furball airplane from furball lake because it gets under your skin because too many people fly it in your opinion. Still sounds like you want the game changed to make it easier for you.
So you lose all the 16s and they move into Spit VIIIs. Would that be better?
I think he stated that he wants it banned because it out turns everything he is in.
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See Rule #4
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And ive never been able to outrun a spit16 in a pony, even with WEP on. so to that statement i give you a: :headscratch:
I've outrun many a Spit XVI in the Mossie VI, and it is 10mph slower than the P-51D.
I did run a P-51D down the other night in my slower Mossie VI, but he kept weaving back and forth so he couldn't pull away.
Was that you? :P
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I've outrun many a Spit XVI in the Mossie VI, and it is 10mph slower than the P-51D.
I did run a P-51D down the other night in my slower Mossie VI, but he kept weaving back and forth so he couldn't pull away.
Was that you? :P
no. I only fly the pony whenever the squad does patrols now. ive been mostly flying the G-2 for perkies.
last night was a rough night. had 3 succesful me262 kills, 2 sorties scoring 3 kills each. third one i had 1 kill and was lucky enough to make it back to base.
sadly tho, on my 4th run i had my vertical stab shot off by a p47 who wasent even facing in my general direction at the time.
175perks down the drain for a reason that still makes me go: :headscratch:
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Why would anyone worry about out-running anything? You should be glad you can't out-run them. If they can't catch you, you cannot kill them :old:
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But next time i got a spit16 barreling down on me, i'll make sure to PM him and tell him his spit isent capable of doing that. because the "charts" say so :x
Imagine this, if you will.
A Ferrari sits at a stop light. Behind him, an old beat-up Ford pickup truck comes barreling down the road at 60mph. The light turns green as the truck arrives, and it blazes on through without ever stopping. Sure, the Ferrari can accelerate to 60mph in mere seconds, but at this point the Ford is already hundreds of feet ahead before the Ferrari can match and exceed its speed. Ultimately, the Ferrari will pass the Ford, but it's not an instant thing - even if he is going significantly faster.
See where I'm going here?
If you're flying level in a P-51, and a Spit XVI dives down on you, he's going to be a lot faster than you. Your plane's top speed might be greater, but at that moment your speed relative to his is lower. It's going to take time to match his speed by trying to dive away, and then it's going to take more time still for you to pull away once you exceed his speed. During all of that, you're vulnerable.
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Now you're attacking the Brewster? The Wmaker signal is up. :uhoh You seem to through out baseless claims, then just throw out more when the previous ones are shot down. :headscratch: No matter how many times you say something, it doesn't make it right, especially when almost every fact pertaining to the issue(s) at hand point against you.
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I went to the DA once and this is all I saw...................
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb298/jlmcgowan/John%20at%20Renassaince%20Fair/9138.jpg)
Is that LARP?
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because the "charts" say so
Can't really vouch for your DA time, but your other "charts" do say a lot about you. :aok
I think it's time to, well, be a tad blunt here and...
(http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr355/swatpeace/stfunoob.jpg)
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Imagine this, if you will.
A Ferrari sits at a stop light. Behind him, an old beat-up Ford pickup truck comes barreling down the road at 60mph. The light turns green as the truck arrives, and it blazes on through without ever stopping. Sure, the Ferrari can accelerate to 60mph in mere seconds, but at this point the Ford is already hundreds of feet ahead before the Ferrari can match and exceed its speed. Ultimately, the Ferrari will pass the Ford, but it's not an instant thing - even if he is going significantly faster.
See where I'm going here?
If you're flying level in a P-51, and a Spit XVI dives down on you, he's going to be a lot faster than you. Your plane's top speed might be greater, but at that moment your speed relative to his is lower. It's going to take time to match his speed by trying to dive away, and then it's going to take more time still for you to pull away once you exceed his speed. During all of that, you're vulnerable.
Don't confuse him with the facts, they are beyond him.
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Aw fugitive, i wish i had enough time to sit around on my backside all day and do nothing but fly a cartoon plane around.
maybe then i'd have an ego as big as yours! :O
LOL!!! You have soooooo much to learn little man.
First off, had you checked (I know you don't like doing research) you would see that I run about 20 hours a month average playing the game. I probably spend more time on the message boards than I do flying, but that's because I work for a living and bought myself of of those fancy smart phones that I can use on those short "down times" I get with my job.
Second as we are talking about your skill, or lack there of, I can't figure out how MY ego is worked into this. You seem to have confused my stating facts with with some type of bragging. If you reread my post you'll see I don't mention my flying or skill at all. I was just trying to get everyone back on topic. I'm sorry if it seemed like I was talking a shot at you, but with posts like...
"But like i said, Your asking to get rid of something i like (F3 mode).
so im asking to get rid of something you like (spit16)."
you come off sounding a bit childish.
F3 should be removed because it gives a player an unfair advantage (much the same reason the IL2 lost the F3 mode in the MA's). The dueling arena is an arena setup for duels, competition. The fights should be based on player skill, not gamy advantages. NOT because the OP doesn't like it.
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:huh
I fly the 109F4 and 109G-2
And you are having trouble with Spitfires? :huh
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LOL!!! You have soooooo much to learn little man.
First off, had you checked (I know you don't like doing research) you would see that I run about 20 hours a month average playing the game. I probably spend more time on the message boards than I do flying, but that's because I work for a living and bought myself of of those fancy smart phones that I can use on those short "down times" I get with my job.
i may play on average an Hour a day. maybe even rarer than that. the girlfriend hates me on it, but anyways.
I too most likely spend more time on the message boards than flying. but thats because i have a job as-well, And could afford one of those fancy "computers" with their "etardnet" connection. so i never have to click out of the bbs :D
Second as we are talking about your skill, or lack there of, I can't figure out how MY ego is worked into this. You seem to have confused my stating facts with with some type of bragging. If you reread my post you'll see I don't mention my flying or skill at all. I was just trying to get everyone back on topic. I'm sorry if it seemed like I was talking a shot at you, but with posts like...
:huh lets look at the original post...
You guys are missing the point here. Tyrannis is just throwing a temper tantrum because some one suggested that F3 be removed from the DA. I think he said if I can't have my F3 then you can't have the spit16.
He's just stomping his feet because some body might miss with the only way he can fly. Your building one heck of a reputation around here Tyrannis! LOL
You not only took "shots" at me in your original post, but continue to do so. i Never claimed to be the top ace pilot of the game, but i do good enough with the mere mouse+keyboard i have.
And you say you dont have an ego, yet you state everything youve said as "facts" instead of mere opinion? :huh
I agree i still have alot to learn, but theres nothing useful to learn from observing you ;)
and on the F3 mode talk, no one forces YOU to fly in f3 mode. you tell me to adapt to spit16 pilots, why dont you all take your own advice and adapt to f3 pilots?
:)
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And you are having trouble with Spitfires? :huh
I know I'll probably be lynched for this, but equal pilots the Spit16/9 will beat those two 109s pretty handily. The K4 is much different, but that's irrelevant to my point. An anecdotal example was awhile ago when I was dueling Krupnski. He was mopping the floor with me the whole night, but eventually we ended up in Spit vs 109 duels and I had little trouble winning those. Bottom line is that in-game the Spit9/16 is superior to the 109 variants mentioned.
To Tyrannis: The reason people don't want F3 is that it gives you an unfair advantage. I've had many fights where the guy is coming up under my nose and using F3 would have helped me see where he is and be able to react accordingly. The Spit16, on the other hand, does not give that same kind of advantage. It has a lot of strengths, but it also has weaknesses that can be exploited to your advantage, such as it's light armor, poor deceleration, and top speed. On the other hand, using F3 in situations such as the one I mentioned has no downside, and is impossible to exploit. That is why it should be removed.
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And you are having trouble with Spitfires? :huh
1-2? no.
8-9 uh, yah :bhead
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I understand your point TonyJoey, but what I noticed when I was playing was that most Spit XVI pilots in the DA just aren't that good.
A decent stick with rudimentary knowledge of the 109F-4 should be able to easily outmaneuver a spray and pray hotard in a Spit.
Before the Uber Spit dweeeb masses befall me, let me make clear that there ARE SOME good Spit pilots.
Just not many... :lol :salute
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As a post script to this I asked HTC the same question and received an answer almost immediately offering the opinion that the use of F3 (outside view) in the DA was primarily intended for newer, more inexperienced players to familiarize themselves with virtual flying. There is little to be gained from complaining about something unless you ask the provider.
Two things strike me. That makes sense. If you are new you probably need help to gain confidence until you get used to cockpit views. The emphasis would probably be on new. Yes - new, inexperienced players. The second is it’s amazing that you can e-mail the company and get a turnaround answer within a few hours. Anyone that bemoans the game should keep that in mind.
That’s a good outcome – asked and answered.
Tyrannis – I read your words and whilst always trying to thing the best of people I have to ask the question.
1) Are you an idiot?
2) Are you 12 years old?
3) Are you a 12 year old idiot?
4) Are you an idiot with an IQ of 12?
You not only go off on a tangent which didn’t even address the original post, but you dismiss the opinions and facts of people that have more knowledge of WW2 aircraft than most of us have if it were all added up. Some of the authors of posts surely deserve the benefit of the doubt being that they know their stuff. Stop typing and start reading.
Don’t come back at me either. In pure testosterone terms you’ve always declined a 1v1 – not that it would prove anything, but I always hoped it would shut you up for a while. And I would rather drink bleach than hear about how good you are – again.
And if your girlfriend doesn’t like you playing Aces High – in your case – just remove her valve and deflate her and put her back in the box she came in. you can always pump her back up after you’ve finished.
As Roy always said to Dale – Happy Trails
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And if your girlfriend doesn’t like you playing Aces High – in your case – just remove her valve and deflate her and put her back in the box she came in. you can always pump her back up after you’ve finished.
OH
MY
GOD
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And if your girlfriend doesn’t like you playing Aces High – in your case – just remove her valve and deflate her and put her back in the box she came in. you can always pump her back up after you’ve finished.
:rofl
Cleaning the ol' monitor now...
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Don’t come back at me either. In pure testosterone terms you’ve always declined a 1v1 – not that it would prove anything, but I always hoped it would shut you up for a while. And I would rather drink bleach than hear about how good you are – again.
And if your girlfriend doesn’t like you playing Aces High – in your case – just remove her valve and deflate her and put her back in the box she came in. you can always pump her back up after you’ve finished.
As Roy always said to Dale – Happy Trails
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
on ya 3up!!! almost fell outa my chair laughing...
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Tyrannis
1) Are you an idiot?
2) Are you 12 years old?
3) Are you a 12 year old idiot?
4) Are you an idiot with an IQ of 12?
From my observations, I can say with confidence that Tyrannis can accurately answer 'yes' to all of the above.
In regards to the rest of your post Threeup -- :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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See Rule #4
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i may play on average an Hour a day. maybe even rarer than that. the girlfriend hates me on it, but anyways.
I too most likely spend more time on the message boards than flying. but thats because i have a job as-well, And could afford one of those fancy "computers" with their "etardnet" connection. so i never have to click out of the bbs :D
:huh lets look at the original post...
You not only took "shots" at me in your original post, but continue to do so. i Never claimed to be the top ace pilot of the game, but i do good enough with the mere mouse+keyboard i have.
And you say you dont have an ego, yet you state everything youve said as "facts" instead of mere opinion? :huh
I agree i still have alot to learn, but theres nothing useful to learn from observing you ;)
and on the F3 mode talk, no one forces YOU to fly in f3 mode. you tell me to adapt to spit16 pilots, why dont you all take your own advice and adapt to f3 pilots?
:)
oh I'm sorry, so your NOT mad that someone suggested to get rid of F3 mode. You would have no problem with the remove correct?
If you could possibly be honest with yourself for a minute then yes you are throwing a temper tantrum and like all little kids who might have one of their toys taken away stomp there little feet. So yes I was dealing in facts.
If that is NOT what you were saying in your post maybe you should rethink your posts BEFORE you post them. As it is your sounding like a 12 year old.... of wait...
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As far as I'm concerned F3 mode in the DA is for those who never could get past this:
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6286/sgx1941counterattacks.jpg)
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this is getting brutal now. i think we should all stop seriously.
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this is getting brutal now. i think we should all stop seriously.
...because you can't fix stupid?
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this is getting brutal now. i think we should all stop seriously.
Shh.. quiet down, grab some snacks.. I'm enjoying the hell out of this!
...because you can't fix stupid?
:rofl :rofl
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Threeup, you have never challenged me to a 1v1, so dont come up here puffing your chest out saying ive backed down from a challenge youve never made. what i DO remember tho, is shooting you down twice in the furball lake.
then no, i decline and you can go on the forums and brag about it if you like, but i never 1v1 duel someone willingly whos going to take the EZ way into it by flying a spit. i hate those planes and therefore will not engage them unless forced to.
if you want a 1v1, pick a better plane. ive 1v1 you enough to prove that i can shoot you down and i have the pics/films to prove it.
Good part about the internet – once it’s there it’s there forever. Someone is having memory lapses or they had better get a fire extinguisher as their pants are well and truly burning.
Brutal? Hardly! Heat, kitchen etc.
Tyrannis, why not quit now when you’re well and truly behind.
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Let him go, the entertainment value has been priceless.
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But there seems to be a group of people that refuse to fly in the MA
It's too much of a challenge for them is why.......the fact of them flying in F2 and not being able to look behind so easy. Then when they get killed first sortie they leave the arena and go back to the DA.
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Let him go, the entertainment value has been priceless.
But Phatz, you know one of the best parts about game fishing is dragging it onto the deck. Then you take the hook out and let it go. It’s that sense of accomplishment – a job well done.
You’re right though – this one didn’t need any bait at all and has hardly put up a struggle. Bit of thrashing around and the odd yelp, but that’s about it. And you’re a pretty senior Prawn as well – I had better listen up.
So little Tyrannis, fly free. You truly are the better Aces High pilot, tactician, historian and, what the hey, the better man. You’ve certainly blinded me with your knowledge, wit and opinion. I’m a little humbled really. I’m going to get my comfort blanket out now and suck my thumb in the corner re-living and regretting every minute where I dared to question you.
And if there are any chores around the place that need doing (car washed, girlfriend pumped back up, ego stroked) count on me. Can you also send me any films of you in action (on Aces high, not with the girlfriend!)? I would be obliged. I aspire to be little Tyrranis, like in Jurassic Park 2.
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look what i found i singapore
(http://www.professionalnut.com/uploads/8/0/6/6/806601/8206834.jpg?545)
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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But Phatz, you know one of the best parts about game fishing is dragging it onto the deck. Then you take the hook out and let it go. It’s that sense of accomplishment – a job well done.
You’re right though – this one didn’t need any bait at all and has hardly put up a struggle. Bit of thrashing around and the odd yelp, but that’s about it. And you’re a pretty senior Prawn as well – I had better listen up.
So little Tyrannis, fly free. You truly are the better Aces High pilot, tactician, historian and, what the hey, the better man. You’ve certainly blinded me with your knowledge, wit and opinion. I’m a little humbled really. I’m going to get my comfort blanket out now and suck my thumb in the corner re-living and regretting every minute where I dared to question you.
And if there are any chores around the place that need doing (car washed, girlfriend pumped back up, ego stroked) count on me. Can you also send me any films of you in action (on Aces high, not with the girlfriend!)? I would be obliged. I aspire to be little Tyrranis, like in Jurassic Park 2.
You're on a roll in this thread. :aok
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I do not fly in the DA for one reason and one reason only, F-3 mode. In the MA you know if you fly under an enemy plan at a certain angle he will have no shot on you. (like a real plane) However in the DA this all goes out the window because of F-3. You end up with someone in a perk ride they can't afford in the MA spaying the sky with cannon like a garden hose in F-3 mode.
They make fantastic deflection shots that can't be made from the cockpit. They are The Red Barron Erick Hartmann and Chuck Yeager all rolled onto one in the DA but you rarely see them in the MA. Flying in F-3mode teaches you nothing. If all you want to do is shoot down stuff then buy yourself a Microsoft game and shoot down drones all day. As for the DA they can have it.
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8 pages of nothing.
Tyrannis, "It is better to keep mouth closed and be thought a fool, than speak and remove all doubt".
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This has got to be the silliest thread I have seen in a long time... I need more popcorn.
(http://isert.net/gif/popcorn.gif)
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I simply wish that HTC would TRY different settings over a month or bi-monthly trial period, heck even over a weekly period --just to see if it works and how things are received--
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Way way way back I used F3, when I was learning. It was very useful, for a beginner-learning-to-fight stage. I don't deny it makes things way easier than F2 mode, but you have to remember not everybody flies like you do. Some folks are just starting out. Some folks are stuck in arcade mode. Some folks avoid learning (see the EWA milk runners and fight avoiders, for example).
I think F3 has a place for learning, and sometimes just for fun. I don't know if it's worth having in the DA or not, but consider that you also go to the DA to learn how to fight, since you can't shoot an enemy down in the TA. Beginners are going to want to practice there, and they start with F3.
Maybe it's moot now. Maybe with private rooms you won't need them in the DA anymore. They'll have a room of their own with no fuel burn, no ammo limit, and F3 enabled. They'll go there and leave the DA to serious folk.
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surely having F3 enabled just teaches you ... how to fight with F3 enabled? :headscratch:
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surely having F3 enabled just teaches you ... how to fight with F3 enabled? :headscratch:
I was loathe to say this as it seemed self-evident but, in this case, it seems absolutely necessary...
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I simply wish that HTC would TRY different settings over a month or bi-monthly trial period, heck even over a weekly period --just to see if it works and how things are received--
More interesting would be a temporary second DA that has the same settings as the MA... See if it draws new users, pulls users from the F3 enabled DA, or gets little use at all.
I believe that there is a subset of AH subscribers who spend their time in the DA. That is what they enjoy. I believe that HTC keeps the current settings in the DA because they have some paying customers who enjoy playing that way.
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surely having F3 enabled just teaches you ... how to fight with F3 enabled? :headscratch:
That same thing could be said of learning to fly with F2 as well, no?
Think of it only as a boost in SA. You can see more so it allows you to react more. You see a plane under your wing at low 9 oclock, so you can now react, bank into him, dodge his attack, turn behind him, whatever...
You can pull a lot of lead on targets, to help learn how much is "just right" (to the point you see hits land), you can adjust dive angles for NOE targets or for GVs...
It's generaly like flying with no cockpit, but better (because the camera is behind the plane, you can see cons above and below you that would be out of your FOV from the pilot's head point of view).
So you do learn things. Look at me now. I'm not TOTALLY helpless. It's like the LCG. Nice to learn with, but only sad if you can't get past it (like a 20-year-old with training wheels on his bike still).
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Goodness gracious!!!! This was an azz-whipping of Tyrannis proportions. Being an X-DAer and someone who knows the 12 permanent F3 DA fixtures, Tyrannis, I offer you this advice:
1. Seek out ADog31st - he is the uber- self proclaimed F3 51 gawd in the DA and champions the pickers
2. Seek out Spacey - he is the uber - self proclaimed 16 gawd in defending against attacks doled out by ADog31st
3. Try really hard to have a farting contest with yourself because you have a much better chance of winning that than to continue the quest to become MR. SATs...F3 is a crutch used by newbs or people that do not have the inclination to learn a damn thing. Arguing to keep such a useless tool in this game makes you look clownish...you don't want to be a clown do you? Take Del up on his offer and retire your big red nose.
V/r
Changeup
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I'd just like to see F3 view disabled in the main arena since we have icons for all vehicles there.
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Is now the appropriate time to post up an "Epic Facepalm" photo?
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Goodness gracious!!!! This was an azz-whipping of Tyrannis proportions. Being an X-DAer and someone who knows the 12 permanent F3 DA fixtures, Tyrannis, I offer you this advice:
1. Seek out ADog31st - he is the uber- self proclaimed F3 51 gawd in the DA and champions the pickers
2. Seek out Spacey - he is the uber - self proclaimed 16 gawd in defending against attacks doled out by ADog31st
3. Try really hard to have a farting contest with yourself because you have a much better chance of winning that than to continue the quest to become MR. SATs...F3 is a crutch used by newbs or people that do not have the inclination to learn a damn thing. Arguing to keep such a useless tool in this game makes you look clownish...you don't want to be a clown do you? Take Del up on his offer and retire your big red nose.
V/r
Changeup
(http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Uploads/Graphics/000-1003203004-mutley-27112.jpg)
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I believe that there is a subset of AH subscribers who spend their time in the DA. That is what they enjoy. I believe that HTC keeps the current settings in the DA because they have some paying customers who enjoy playing that way.
In that case, I would like to get some power ups in mid air that fix my plane and give it extra speed when I press the turbo button. I am paying and I would enjoy that. I also think a lot of others would too.
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In that case, I would like to get some power ups in mid air that fix my plane and give it extra speed when I press the turbo button. I am paying and I would enjoy that. I also think a lot of others would too.
You know, I am sure you had your tongue firmly planted in your cheek there, but if it brought in a broader subscriber base for HTC without affecting the current arenas, I wouldn't mind if HTC introduced more arcadey things to the DA. Let the arcade players financially support the real game, I wouldn't play the arcadey stuff, but there are people who would.
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In that case, I would like to get some power ups in mid air that fix my plane
You mean like tank repair in the MAs? :D
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You mean like tank repair in the MAs? :D
Fair is fair :old:
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You know, I am sure you had your tongue firmly planted in your cheek there, but if it brought in a broader subscriber base for HTC without affecting the current arenas, I wouldn't mind if HTC introduced more arcadey things to the DA. Let the arcade players financially support the real game, I wouldn't play the arcadey stuff, but there are people who would.
You may be on to something, here...
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Iwanna be able to fix all my aircraft damage and refuel and rearm just by flying through a hanger. That would be so incredibly awesome. Ya got a guy on your 6 he knows your doomed, fuel leaking, oil leaking, pw, parts missing................he follows your smoking wreck through the hanger and as you come out, voile', turn around and kill him!
If that is too easy, make em fly through inverted.
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Big NO to arcade mode.
Just, "no"....
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Can we have a power up that makes the laws of physics a laughable principle? Point, shoot, dead. Leading a target is hard you know. OH! and it would give you warp speed. Don't forget about teleportation so if that pesky enemy gets on your tail you can vanish and be on THIER 6.
OO also we should have a sheep gun, for obvious sheep loving reasons. :aok
(http://posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/daveedelstein/D0kaGEEvFlMVN6podbSkkFXc2EP0n6y0Hu378TjVL4fbOlZQlREsVwRASnx3/sheep_gun.jpg)
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Why do I envision the sheep's battle cry to be something along the lines of 'NEVER AGAIN!!!'...
I don't think that you'd get that much retention if you introduced an arcade arena. Generally speaking, people that want that level of play would get bored with the map selection and would probably figure the gameplay 'lacks variety' unless they had a LOT of additional stuff to keep them occupied. The people who'd be attracted to that are the kind of people who play HAWX and its ilk. I seriously doubt they'd be willing to pay a subscription for that kind of gameplay.
Wiley.
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Where did Tyrannis go?
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Iwanna be able to fix all my aircraft damage and refuel and rearm just by flying through a hanger. That would be so incredibly awesome. Ya got a guy on your 6 he knows your doomed, fuel leaking, oil leaking, pw, parts missing................he follows your smoking wreck through the hanger and as you come out, voile', turn around and kill him!
If that is too easy, make em fly through inverted.
You are gonna need quite a tall hanger Zoney, like 30k feet high. Cause you are hardly ever that near to the ground :bolt:
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Iwanna be able to fix all my aircraft damage and refuel and rearm just by flying through a hanger. That would be so incredibly awesome. Ya got a guy on your 6 he knows your doomed, fuel leaking, oil leaking, pw, parts missing................he follows your smoking wreck through the hanger and as you come out, voile', turn around and kill him!
If that is too easy, make em fly through inverted.
lol yes instant re-arms and repairs for those who can make through the VH at 300+ mph
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Why do I envision the sheep's battle cry to be something along the lines of 'NEVER AGAIN!!!'...
Wiley.
Because you weren't doing it correctly :)
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If people only fly the DA and exclusive use F3.... What you are really asking for is to have HTC take a pay cut.
2 DA's, one with, one without would be the only viable solution.
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Because you weren't doing it correctly :)
lol
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If people only fly the DA and exclusive use F3.... What you are really asking for is to have HTC take a pay cut.
Not true. You really have no knowledge of that. Maybe HT took a pay cut when he introduced F3 mode in there. Maybe more people would come back with F3 off. Just speculating, but so are you.
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If people only fly the DA and exclusive use F3.... What you are really asking for is to have HTC take a pay cut.
2 DA's, one with, one without would be the only viable solution.
Nope there's one more, leave it like it is, because the DA doesn't count for anything....
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Not true. You really have no knowledge of that. Maybe HT took a pay cut when he introduced F3 mode in there. Maybe more people would come back with F3 off. Just speculating, but so are you.
Excellent re-direct counselor. The jury is directed to disregard LLogans testimony regarding HiTechs pay cut...please continue.
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Excellent re-direct counselor. The jury is directed to disregard LLogans testimony regarding HiTechs pay cut...please continue.
:rofl
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You are gonna need quite a tall hanger Zoney, like 30k feet high. Cause you are hardly ever that near to the ground :bolt:
Man, thats just mean. Meanie.
Funny though :salute
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"Ah man dude if only you would have engaged those 10 bad guys and they weren't Spit16s,
you would have pwned them all.
(http://www.strijdbewijs.nl/birds/spitfire/secret/NG28.jpg)
Bruv, and Midway? ;)
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(http://www.strijdbewijs.nl/birds/spitfire/secret/NG28.jpg)
Bruv, and Midway? ;)
LOL and imagining them as they walk out to board their aircraft:
M - So can I fly left seat this time, can I can I can I huh ?
B - No.
M - But you said maybe I could when I asked before.
B - That's just because I wanted to meet your mother.
M- But I introduced you to her last week so can I can I can I huh ?
B - No.
M - Bbbbuttt whyyyyy notttttttt ? (half crying blubbery snot running voice)
B - I met your mother.
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I don't use padlock, but i know some people do. :)
I know of some that figured a way to use it in the MA especially certain ones that like the to fly the 262
:D
Just saying
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(http://www.strijdbewijs.nl/birds/spitfire/secret/NG28.jpg)
Bruv, and Midway? ;)
(http://rummuser.com/wp-content/uploads/chimposarticle-0-00FC4CDC000004B0-407_468x403-300x258.jpg)
:rofl :rofl
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Despite Tyrannis' persistent complaint about the Spitfire Mark XVI (and I believe he is more complaining about the prison gang squad mentality more than the aircraft), I believe the current vogue at the Furball lake is actually the F4U-4. It does change from time to time. There was a time when the A6M5b was very popular. In the summer you see an awful lot of P-51Ds.
Regarding the F3 issue. HTC has a fair point to assist new players but the danger is that some become dependant on F3 and therefore never leave the DA (although in some cases you should be grateful about that :lol).
I think to change the prevailing behaviour at the furball lake you would need to make a change to the setup, you cannot shift the norm through encouragement or derision.
For instance you could potentially solve two problems simultaneously, allow F3 mode but disable the System Victory messages. Then it encourages players to move into other arenas when they feel confident enough to try and build a run and also give incentive to move away from F3 mode.
The secondary advantage is it might remove or at least reduce the motivation for some of the DA dweebery, i.e. vulching, ganging, mindless HOing and all the rest.
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The ME262 is a jet within the World War 2 era plane set that i believe saw more action than the spit16. It is NOT in the DA because it is commonly stated that if it was put in the DA then the lake would become nothing more than a jet-filled furball.
If you were to take a tally of the most flown aircraft in the DA, i'd bet a couple perkies that you'd come up with the spit16 by a HUGE margin.We've both seen how bad that place becomes a spit16 horde.
The lake in the most part is nothing but spit16 territory.
So, in all technicality, the spit16 should be banned along the same lines that the ME262 is banned.
(http://www.plognark.com/Art/Sketches/Blogsketches/2008/thestupiditburns.jpg)
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Heh - I use this as an avatar.... I love that pic. :noid
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Kill them all was generally the tactic I preferred. Your tactics may vary.
You can fly and fight whereas he cannot and is handicapped by his own lack of skill.
like i said before Guppy, how much do YOU fly in there? i dont remember ever seeing you in there. so are YOU really the best person to give advice on how to fight in an arena you never seem to fly in? :headscratch:
Fighting a Spitfire XVI in the DA is no different than fighting one in the MA, the same tactics used to kill one in the MA apply in the DA as well.
ack-ack
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But still, as ive been saying. the ME262 was banned because it would become too popular in the lake.
The Me 262 was being used by players to grief those in the lake and dueling fields and after it became really bad, the plane was removed. It was not because it was too popular of a ride, please show a post from HiTech or Pyro stating such.
ack-ack
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You can show me a bunch of charts all you want scca, but when i have spit16's outrunning my pony what does your charts prove? that the spit16 cant do that?
It just shows one of two things (or combination of both), 1) You're not as good as you think you are, 2) You misjudged the other bandit's energy state.
guess what buddy, they do :rolleyes:
No, they don't unless the Spitfire had an initial energy advantage at the start.
Going by the charts to judge what a plane is capable of is like going by someones score to determine how good they are at the game :rolleyes:
Those charts are based on real life flight data...
ack-ack
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I have a solution to this furball lake thingy and "us" vs "them". How about this:
Each one of you invite the person you think is a good/great/excellent MA stick. For two full evenings, load the lake up with your favorite MA best stick vs the DA regulars..can you imagine the carnage??? :devil
I'm reasonably certain no one will ask if someone else is the best person to give advice, lmao!! :rofl :rofl
As an example, could you imagine Del, Corkyjr, ACK, Fringe, and Shuffler winging in 38's, Grizz, Kappa, Sunbat, Krupnski and Sunsfan winging in K4's, TonyJoey, Dano, DrBone and Spek winging in 51Delta's? DOH!!! (No one get offended please...these are just the names I came up with quickly!! lol)...it wouldn't even be fair!!! But it would sure quiet down the DAers that think they know the lake...just sayin. In fact...even if the afore mentioned players were capped at 9K it would still be DUMBUGLY....
Changeup
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theres alot of things the brewster does in game it shouldnt do, and the charts say it cant do,
Name one thing in game that the Finnish B-239 shouldn't be able to do and what charts or other data do you have access to that you could show us that back up your claims?
ack-ack
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Tyrannis,
The Me262 most definitely did not see as much action as the Spitfire Mk XVI. Not even close.
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Let me.......
-
....make 3 posts.........
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.....when I could have only made one.
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I have a solution to this furball lake thingy and "us" vs "them". How about this:...
What 'us' vs. 'them' thingy? Sounds more like some kind of personal vendetta against the DA regulars to me. I don't remember the DA regulars showing up on the forum and campaigning to make changes to the MA. I do see a thread like this about four times a year though: 'the Furball lake is full of scumbags, let's burn them all and clean it out'. :rolleyes:
In my humble opinion there is equal if not more amounts of dweebery in the MA, just a different flavour of dweebery.
Do you know how many new players come through the lake? Or how many MA players drop in regularly? The core DA regulars are a tiny minority and many of them don't have hours and hours to fly around the MA looking for the kind of dogfight you get in the DA in ten minutes. Sure there are "idiots" in there, the DA setup is going to draw those types. They are not representative.
About F3 mode, apart from the enhanced defensive SA (which newer players might need), the only advantage I can see is to enhance under the nose tracking shots. Those complaining about this might be better spending their time on improving ACM and SA to ensure they do not end up in that position in the first place! Instead of campaigning to have it removed.
If that really is the core complaint, then 100Coogn already suggested an excellent compromise which no one seemed to notice:-
Make a compromise.
Leave F3 enabled in the DA.
Disable weapons when in F3 mode.
Coogan
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What 'us' vs. 'them' thingy? Sounds more like some kind of personal vendetta against the DA regulars to me. I don't remember the DA regulars showing up on the forum and campaigning to make changes to the MA. I do see a thread like this about four times a year though: 'the Furball lake is full of scumbags, let's burn them all and clean it out'. :rolleyes:
In my humble opinion there is equal if not more amounts of dweebery in the MA, just a different flavour of dweebery.
Do you know how many new players come through the lake? Or how many MA players drop in regularly? The core DA regulars are a tiny minority and many of them don't have hours and hours to fly around the MA looking for the kind of dogfight you get in the DA in ten minutes. Sure there are "idiots" in there, the DA setup is going to draw those types. They are not representative.
About F3 mode, apart from the enhanced defensive SA (which newer players might need), the only advantage I can see is to enhance under the nose tracking shots. Those complaining about this might be better spending their time on improving ACM and SA to ensure they do not end up in that position in the first place! Instead of campaigning to have it removed.
If that really is the core complaint, then 100Coogn already suggested an excellent compromise which no one seemed to notice:-
Shida,
Its quite simple actually. Tyrannis made the statement that someone that flew in the MA wasn't qualified to have an opinion about what goes on in the DA. I beg to differ, strenuously. I lived in the place for a year and I wish I hadn't, not because of the people, but because of the horrible habits you learn from the people. I was warned about it at the time and in fact, AM one of those "new guys" that came through the DA. I can honestly say you are dead wrong about the flight time....the regulars fly in there, fly for HOURS most nights they are on. Furthermore, everytime a thread pops up about F3, they come out of the woodwork to defend it...if you don't believe that, go back and look.
Shida, the under-the-nose tracking shot isn't the only advantage of F3. I won't argue that with you because I think you know better.
The difference in dweebery in the MA is that you can avoid it to get to a more even fight....the lake offers no relief unless you just leave it, which one can obviously do if they choose to. Look, I know there isn't going to be a gang of MA folks running into the DA to wreak havoc on their poor, unsuspecting souls and I know there will be no elimination of F3 in there...I was trying to be funny...I do that alot with little success...I was making a point. I think you got my point.
Changeup
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Let me.......
....make 3 posts.........
.....when I could have only made one.
:rofl :rofl
You forgot the whine you need to make it awesome. :aok
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Pilots are using F3 in the main arena to see GVs they would normally have to roll the airplane 90 degrees to see.
Removing F3 would also severely thin out the lancstuka, b17 stuka, and the b24 stuka.
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Shida,
Its quite simple actually. Tyrannis made the statement that someone that flew in the MA wasn't qualified to have an opinion about what goes on in the DA. I beg to differ, strenuously. I lived in the place for a year and I wish I hadn't, not because of the people, but because of the horrible habits you learn from the people. I was warned about it at the time and in fact, AM one of those "new guys" that came through the DA. I can honestly say you are dead wrong about the flight time....the regulars fly in there, fly for HOURS most nights they are on. Furthermore, everytime a thread pops up about F3, they come out of the woodwork to defend it...if you don't believe that, go back and look.
Shida, the under-the-nose tracking shot isn't the only advantage of F3. I won't argue that with you because I think you know better.
The difference in dweebery in the MA is that you can avoid it to get to a more even fight....the lake offers no relief unless you just leave it, which one can obviously do if they choose to. Look, I know there isn't going to be a gang of MA folks running into the DA to wreak havoc on their poor, unsuspecting souls and I know there will be no elimination of F3 in there...I was trying to be funny...I do that alot with little success...I was making a point. I think you got my point.
Changeup
Well no actually, I'm not sure I did get your point very clearly. Sure you are qualified to comment, but I'm still not clear about the motivation of players to try and alter an arena where they prefer not to fly. :headscratch:
Also perhaps your obviously negative experience of the DA does not generalise to everyone?
I honestly don't have a clear understanding about the F3 advantages, except what I can gather from these constant threads. I really don't care either way myself, but someone has to speak up for the DA when these mostly MA player initiated witch hunts kick off.
If HTC made the decision to allow F3, is it not unfair to suddenly turn it off on those who prefer to use it? Especially if this change is demanded by people that don't even fly there. Do you see why I find that a little weird?
It's a steaming load of Hotspur to continually imply that everyone who flies in the DA is somehow a lower lifeform than the MA crowd. Maybe this is just human nature to part off a group and then deride it, I don't know, but there are some very good sticks in there and some very good people.
Of course there are knob-heads there too, there are knob-heads in the MA as well, and it's obviously going to end up as a mosh pit when it's very busy, look at the setup.
Please don't tar everyone with the same brush. :old:
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Well no actually, I'm not sure I did get your point very clearly. Sure you are qualified to comment, but I'm still not clear about the motivation of players to try and alter an arena where they prefer not to fly. :headscratch:
Also perhaps your obviously negative experience of the DA does not generalise to everyone?
I honestly don't have a clear understanding about the F3 advantages, except what I can gather from these constant threads. I really don't care either way myself, but someone has to speak up for the DA when these mostly MA player initiated witch hunts kick off.
If HTC made the decision to allow F3, is it not unfair to suddenly turn it off on those who prefer to use it? Especially if this change is demanded by people that don't even fly there. Do you see why I find that a little weird?
It's a steaming load of Hotspur to continually imply that everyone who flies in the DA is somehow a lower lifeform than the MA crowd. Maybe this is just human nature to part off a group and then deride it, I don't know, but there are some very good sticks in there and some very good people.
Of course there are knob-heads there too, there are knob-heads in the MA as well, and it's obviously going to end up as a mosh pit when it's very busy, look at the setup.
Please don't tar everyone with the same brush. :old:
From an old timers point of view....
The DA was for dueling period! You either challenged people that were there, or met people you agreed to fight from other arenas. The purpose was to have an area were you could have your fight with out being interrupted by anyone else. Either for "training" or "bragging rights" it was to be a sterile arena.
Then they added the "Furball Lake" area. This was to be for "quick fights". Going with the old theme of the DA most thought, and still do that it should be a sterile strait up even area like the rest of the DA was. All things being equal it's man against man. F3 takes away from that in that it makes things uneven (it's been proven many times the advantages you can get with it).
I think the Furball lake area would have a much bigger following if the "dweebery" was removed. There was one map nick named "Donut map" that had a lake in the middle and when that map was up there were hundreds of people flying in a continual furball at all hours. So much so that the "win the war" types use to cry about the wasted resources of all those fighters doing nothing to help the war effort :D
Will it get changed? I doubt it. HTC will leave it as it is just for the subscribers that prefer to fly in F3 mode, and like to fly perk rides with out earning the perks and so on.
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Well no actually, I'm not sure I did get your point very clearly. Sure you are qualified to comment, but I'm still not clear about the motivation of players to try and alter an arena where they prefer not to fly. :headscratch:
Also perhaps your obviously negative experience of the DA does not generalise to everyone?
I honestly don't have a clear understanding about the F3 advantages, except what I can gather from these constant threads. I really don't care either way myself, but someone has to speak up for the DA when these mostly MA player initiated witch hunts kick off.
If HTC made the decision to allow F3, is it not unfair to suddenly turn it off on those who prefer to use it? Especially if this change is demanded by people that don't even fly there. Do you see why I find that a little weird?
It's a steaming load of Hotspur to continually imply that everyone who flies in the DA is somehow a lower lifeform than the MA crowd. Maybe this is just human nature to part off a group and then deride it, I don't know, but there are some very good sticks in there and some very good people.
Of course there are knob-heads there too, there are knob-heads in the MA as well, and it's obviously going to end up as a mosh pit when it's very busy, look at the setup.
Please don't tar everyone with the same brush. :old:
Lower life form? I never intimated that...some have, but I have not. I can give you a fairly long list of friends I have in that arena, one I hired for our company. No sir...direct that crap elsewhere. My motivation is actually to mitigate yours...I do not believe its a great place for people to start their AH experience at all or as even a pass through.
Just so I'm clear...I'm not witch hunting or even hating on the DA or the people in general. I am relying on my personal experiences with the instruction I received there and my experiences...look, when you're new to this game, any little bit of info helps and that was where I was flying. It took a long time to get from F3 (my convergence was set at 600, that should give you some idea of how effective F3 is on under the nose shots because you just walk those 20mm's right into the plane your firing at) in the DA where I was proficient, to the more realistic aerial gunnery of the MA. Yes, dweebs abound in both arenas...plentifully...but again you ignored the inescapability of the only 3 bases at the lake. So, I choose not to go the lake very often for two reasons:
1. F3 provides an unrealistic set of advantages to lesser pileits...aerial gunnery and SA (the two things that make you dead) and very large percentage of them use it. Just because you don't, doesn't mean they will admit that they do...in fact, most I've flown with dont admit it readily...until one of these threads pops its ugly head.
2. The compressed area of operating your aircraft provides an advantage in quickly outnumbering and overwhelming your Air to Air opponents that makes "practice" a mute point. What good is improving your SA when there's 9 guys on you momentarily? I mean really? Do you just want to see them before they make swiss cheese out of your plane? Hey, my SA in there was terrific...I saw all 9 coming at me, and all 9 firing their forward mounted guns...I think I need to practice my SA some more though because if I get a lot better, I can get out of that situation. That is why I left and generally go back when the numbers are calm, like this morning..I saw you in there as I'm sure you saw me. Now, if you are using SA obtained by utilizing F3, you will feel BLIND if you move to the MA...I know this because that was me...I don't really want any noobs being taught that way...but, I'm not a policy maker here.
Again, I speak from my experiences which frankly weren't horrible BECAUSE of the people I flew with...they just taught me what they knew and most of it was kinda gamey and didn't serve me well when I left to try the MA. IMO, that is NOT the place to start your AH experience...and that is supported by at least one TA trainer who told me NOT to go in there to get better....he was right. He was saying this: If you practice something wrong over and over and over, you just get better at doing it wrong. Having F3 is isn't realistic is it? If you want his name so that you can verify that fact, I will PM it to you...but when someone that takes his personal time to train folks here says that, it has to have some merit. I support that trainer's judgement completely via my personal experience.
If it works for you, I think that's great but you don't have to defend it just because you fly there. Defend it on it merits and if you can think of enough evidence to support it being a good place for newbs to start their AH experience, get better and move into the MA or stay there forever and continue to improve on their skills as they are applicable to how the game tries to mirror RL, so be it. If they can be competitive enough to not get frustrated and angry and quit, I will absolutely agree with you. I just don't believe it can be done OFTEN ENOUGH based on the model there, all things considered.
Changeup
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From an old timers point of view....
The DA was for dueling period! You either challenged people that were there, or met people you agreed to fight from other arenas. The purpose was to have an area were you could have your fight with out being interrupted by anyone else. Either for "training" or "bragging rights" it was to be a sterile arena.
Then they added the "Furball Lake" area. This was to be for "quick fights". Going with the old theme of the DA most thought, and still do that it should be a sterile strait up even area like the rest of the DA was. All things being equal it's man against man. F3 takes away from that in that it makes things uneven (it's been proven many times the advantages you can get with it).
I think the Furball lake area would have a much bigger following if the "dweebery" was removed. There was one map nick named "Donut map" that had a lake in the middle and when that map was up there were hundreds of people flying in a continual furball at all hours. So much so that the "win the war" types use to cry about the wasted resources of all those fighters doing nothing to help the war effort :D
Will it get changed? I doubt it. HTC will leave it as it is just for the subscribers that prefer to fly in F3 mode, and like to fly perk rides with out earning the perks and so on.
Obviously quoted for truth.
Some say nostalgia is a thing of the past.
If those alterations were made, wouldn’t that be something to be enjoyed.
Unfortunately you’re probably correct in that there will always be those who want “instant”. The trick is to get a mid-point between having to wear goggles and do a pre-flight check and adjust fuel mixture and trim in flight and feeding a coin slot with unlimited lives and ammo. Between authenticity and arcade.
There’s always compromise. Let’s all work as a team and do it my way.
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Lower life form? I never intimated that...some have, but I have not. I can give you a fairly long list of friends I have in that arena, one I hired for our company. No sir...direct that crap elsewhere...
I don't believe I explicitly named you nor do I believe there is any dispute between us that it is indeed the prevailing attitude on the forum to continually cast the DA sub community in that light.
I speak up for them because so many of the regulars do not have forum accounts, and this forum is often mistaken for a representative cross section of the AH community as a whole which it certainly is not.
Surely it's for the players themselves to decide by accident or design where the best learning environment is and what their ambitions and goals are within the game. This is the natural order of things.
One thing you cannot dispute, regardless of all the complaints about the furbal lake, it IS popular, with a mixture of exclusive DA players and MA players too. Some are lazy or just don't take the game very seriously and want to play a bit of AirQuake (or simply to grief). Others do want to learn ACM and improve. The difference is easily spotted.
Those that want help generally get it. Some of us are forever encouraging newer players to work on their technique (especially in place of ganging and HOing). We routinely direct raw scrub noobs to the TA, often to have them come back and say there's no one there. I can't count the number of times I've stopped what I was doing to spend an hour with them teaching some BFM.
Perhaps a campaign to beef up the TA with trainers would be more appropriate. I'm on CET and I never see one there in my daytime for example.
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Surely it's for the players themselves to decide by accident or design where the best learning environment is and what their ambitions and goals are within the game. This is the natural order of things.
And this is where our views diverge IF you are talking about new players as you referenced in your post prior to your last. New players have no idea what they need, so how can they decide? It is generally accepted that new people don't read the AH online literature until well into making a decision to stay so i believe we are responsible for giving some voice to folks who don't know enough to make that decision otherwise they are left to their own devices in this game; we all know where that leads more often than not.
Neither the military or successful businesses allow people to decide on their own course of training. I realize this is neither but those models can be used with historical success to point new players in the right direction, then, and only then, can they make an informed decision.
There is no doubt you provide a wealth of experience to the new people you run into in the DA...I have seen it on 200 and watched their replies to you. You really are a fantastic role model and on every single issue, I agree with you except F3...for a newbs future development, it is useless, indeed, it restricts their development should they choose to visit the MA.
:salute
Changeup
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Perhaps a campaign to beef up the TA with trainers would be more appropriate. I'm on CET and I never see one there in my daytime for example.
If nrshida was on I knew it was way late for me to be up. The lake seems to have more class at that time of night with better fights all around. The point you made about the trainers is key, maybe if they went to the lake things would improve. If you teach it they will learn
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Well ironically I am the least qualified to comment on the specific usage of F3, so I ought to withdraw from the discussion on that point. I trust my comments to be equally considerate to the the DA residents and also consider their wishes has at least been heard in some quarters.
:salute ChangeUp
:salute Dodger, long time no see buddy, I hope you are well sir.
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Pilots are using F3 in the main arena to see GVs they would normally have to roll the airplane 90 degrees to see.
Removing F3 would also severely thin out the lancstuka, b17 stuka, and the b24 stuka.
There is the bombsite you know :D
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Hey, try this. Put Tyrannis on your mute list in your profile. Reread the thread, it honestly makes MORE sense....
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In the MA I could possibly live with the IL2 being bananaed by F3 removal if it wasnt for the fact the A-20 still has it, as do other small or medium bombers. The exuse that the IL2 was being used as a fighter to much was total B.S. cause not only wasnt it but it was, and is, helpless against fighters with any skills whatsoever.
Tankers just wanted their way without the horror of actually being killed by the wars #1 air tank killer. Its much harder setting up against tanks now and the plane still wallows like a pig. Even the trim feels different.
About 5,000 K/Ds now compared to about 30,000 LW K/Ds two years ago. I'd bet far more of the kills are now done with its little bombs. We still dont have the PTABs that devestated German armor in the war. Look at these pathetic numbers http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/killsbyp.php?sortby=0&selectTour=LWTour138&pindex=50 and then tell me the IL2 "isnt" dead in Aces High ?
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In the MA I could possibly live with the IL2 being bananaed by F3 removal if it wasnt for the fact the A-20 still has it, as do other small or medium bombers. The exuse that the IL2 was being used as a fighter to much was total B.S. cause not only wasnt it but it was, and is, helpless against fighters with any skills whatsoever.
Tankers just wanted their way without the horror of actually being killed by the wars #1 air tank killer. Its much harder setting up against tanks now and the plane still wallows like a pig. Even the trim feels different.
I disagree, I dont notice any change in handling. Never used F3, so setting up is the same to me.
About 5,000 K/Ds now compared to about 30,000 LW K/Ds two years ago.
I suspect (have not looked it up tho) it's killing fewer gv's because there's fewer gv's driving around. I know I personally find fewer, thats why my IL2 usage is down.
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In the MA I could possibly live with the IL2 being bananaed by F3 removal if it wasnt for the fact the A-20 still has it, as do other small or medium bombers. The exuse that the IL2 was being used as a fighter to much was total B.S. cause not only wasnt it but it was, and is, helpless against fighters with any skills whatsoever.
You obviously know nothing about this topic. Talk to GHI and see how impotent he is with the IL2 as a fighter. Many others are the same way. They will put you 6 feet under with out a worry while you try to hide behind your book of Invented Facts.
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You obviously know nothing about this topic. Talk to GHI and see how impotent he is with the IL2 as a fighter. Many others are the same way. They will put you 6 feet under with out a worry while you try to hide behind your book of Invented Facts.
LOL, this is a funny one. Back when GHI and I were flying the IL2 we would both kill hundreds every month. Mine were mostly armor, his were many airplanes too. Last month he killed two fighters with it. Two years ago I had 350 kills in it , of which 284 were vehicles, and he had over 600, most of which were other planes. EVERY fighter killed by it did something dumb, like HO or was greedily vulching. GHI was the only one who used the plane mostly as a fighter. I saw him hundreds of times defending air strips and towns killing planes flown by dummies who not only didnt know you shouldnt HO an IL2 but also didnt know they should maybe outclimb it, out dive it, outroll it, or out turn it instead. :D
To say the IL2 is a potent air to air fighter is a laugh. Even with F3. But I only flew it for years so what would I know. :lol
I suspect (have not looked it up tho) it's killing fewer gv's because there's fewer gv's driving around. I know I personally find fewer, thats why my IL2 usage is down.
Thats true. You see far fewer spawns to airbases, and only one LW map now. That and almost nobody ever flew thing thing to a GV base. But even when GVs are around Im seeing far fewer IL2s. The plane is just more unpopular now. The A-20 meanwhile, despite far fewer players now and only one map, is killing the same numbers as it did two years ago. Why fly an IL2 when you can fly an A-20 with 8 500 lb bombs WITH F3?
Never used F3, so setting up is the same to me.
Used to hear this all the time even back when we had 20 to 30 with triple digit kils in it. ;)
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LOL, this is a funny one. Back when GHI and I were flying the IL2 we would both kill hundreds every month. Mine were mostly armor, his were many airplanes too. Last month he killed two fighters with it. Two years ago I had 350 kills in it , of which 284 were vehicles, and he had over 600, most of which were other planes. EVERY fighter killed by it did something dumb, like HO or was greedily vulching. GHI was the only one who used the plane mostly as a fighter. I saw him hundreds of times defending air strips and towns killing planes flown by dummies who not only didnt know you shouldnt HO an IL2 but also didnt know they should maybe outclimb it, out dive it, outroll it, or out turn it instead. :D
To say the IL2 is a potent air to air fighter is a laugh. Even with F3. But I only flew it for years so what would I know. :lol
Thats true. You see far fewer spawns to airbases, and only one LW map now. That and almost nobody ever flew thing thing to a GV base. But even when GVs are around Im seeing far fewer IL2s. The plane is just more unpopular now. The A-20 meanwhile, despite far fewer players now and only one map, is killing the same numbers as it did two years ago. Why fly an IL2 when you can fly an A-20 with 8 500 lb bombs WITH F3?
Used to hear this all the time even back when we had 20 to 30 with triple digit kils in it. ;)
I had written a good (or I thought it was) response until my son came over to the keyboard and smacked it so I'm not rewriting it lol.
I think differently because it's the pilot, not the plane most often. As well as the one who makes the most errors loses.
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You obviously know nothing about this topic. Talk to GHI and see how impotent he is with the IL2 as a fighter. Many others are the same way. They will put you 6 feet under with out a worry while you try to hide behind your book of Invented Facts.
Richie isn't one to let facts get in the way of a hyperbole.
ack-ack
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You obviously know nothing about this topic. Talk to GHI and see how impotent he is with the IL2 as a fighter. Many others are the same way. They will put you 6 feet under with out a worry while you try to hide behind your book of Invented Facts.
Hey that book is a good read but doesn't provide much cover to block 37mm rounds from an IL2.
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About 5,000 K/Ds now compared to about 30,000 LW K/Ds two years ago. I'd bet far more of the kills are now done with its little bombs. We still dont have the PTABs that devestated German armor in the war. Look at these pathetic numbers http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/killsbyp.php?sortby=0&selectTour=LWTour138&pindex=50 and then tell me the IL2 "isnt" dead in Aces High ?
I do.
You can't simply compare absolute numbers from 2 years ago to last tour, because total kill numbers for the tour are also much lower now.
If you want to check the statistical impact of a change, you have to look at the numbers just before and after that change, and some times after that because players often take some time to adjust.
You will then see that overall Il-2 usage took indeed a big hit - but it's far from "dead" now, particularly in it's original anti-tank role:
The top airbone killers of the Panzer IV:
(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4058/planevspzl.jpg)
A reduction by 1/3rd, but still #2. Doesn't look dead to me.
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Never get sloppy pitching to Lusche....he cranks weak-arse analysis out of the yard. He just went yard on ya rookie! Lol
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I do.
You can't simply compare absolute numbers from 2 years ago to last tour, because total kill numbers for the tour are also much lower now.
If you want to check the statistical impact of a change, you have to look at the numbers just before and after that change, and some times after that because players often take some time to adjust.
You will then see that overall Il-2 usage took indeed a big hit - but it's far from "dead" now, particularly in it's original anti-tank role:
The top airbone killers of the Panzer IV:
(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4058/planevspzl.jpg)
A reduction by 1/3rd, but still #2. Doesn't look dead to me.
All true, but norrowly focused. The IV is childs play to kill in a IL2, you dont even need the 37mms to punch thru parts of it. You could probably kill one with 0.50s. You can kill the thing from the side, the rear, the top, the front, and from any angle. Look at these armor thickness numbers. Lol, the thing is made out of aluminum foil.
Rear Turret: 20/0
Rear Upper Hull: 20/9
Rear Lower Hull: 20/10
Turret Top / Bottom: 10/83
Upper Hull Top / Bottom: 12/84
Lower Hull Top / Bottom: 10/90
Gun Mantlet: 35/0
Rear Turret: 30/10
Rear Upper Hull: 20/12
Rear Lower Hull: 20/9
Turret Top / Bottom: 10/83
Upper Hull Top / Bottom: 12/85
Lower Hull Top / Bottom: 10/90
Gun Mantlet: 50/0
The total numbers mean very little to me. I not only see far fewer in the air now but without even counting numbers just look at how many kills individuals are ringing up now. Guys who I remember killing quite a bit in it that are still in the game. http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/killsbyp.php?sortby=0&selectTour=LWTour138&pindex=50 compared to back when the IL2 still had F3 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/killsbyp.php?sortby=0&selectTour=LWTour114&pindex=50 There was much higher individual scoring.
Never get sloppy pitching to Lusche....he cranks weak-arse analysis out of the yard. He just went yard on ya rookie! Lol
Im glad you have a man hero to look up to, every boy should. But I assume campaign 135 was the last tour the IL2 had F3 cause thats the last tour it rang up any decent kills. And also BTW the last tour Lusche ever flew it in, "tho F3 had nothing to do with it Im sure." So in 135 the IL2 had about 13,000 k/d and one month later in 136 it had about 4,300 ? And since you never flew it again Lusche without F3 we can pretty much assume its "dead" to you. :D I suspect by looking at current users its pretty much "dead" to all the score guys.
So while its not totally "dead", except to Lusche, we can pretty much call it gelded. Such is the fate for the most famous tank killing airplane in the war, and such is the hypocrosy of leaving other attack/bombers with bombbays and rear gunners to retain F3.
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All true, but norrowly focused. The IV is childs play to kill in a IL2, you dont even need the 37mms to punch thru parts of it.
Very flawed logic.
The Panzer IV is by far the most used tank in AH, and especially most used when rolling the enemy bases. If generally nobody would up it to kill tanks due to F3 removal, there wouldn't be much Panzer been killed either. Also I do not know how no F3 would have any impact on armor penetration. If F3 makes it more difficult to find tanks and players stop using it because of that, there is no reason why it should impact Panzer IV kills more than other tank kills.
. And also BTW the last tour Lusche ever flew it in, "tho F3 had nothing to do with it Im sure." So in 135 the IL2 had about 13,000 k/d and one month later in 136 it had about 4,300 ? And since you never flew it again Lusche without F3 we can pretty much assume its "dead" to you. :D I suspect by looking at current users its pretty much "dead" to all the score guys.
Nice selective usage of stats again.
(http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/6086/lolzq.jpg)
Cleary evident how this score guy was racking up hundreds of kills in the Il-2 only before suddenly abandoning the plane after F3 was removed. I just wonder if F3 was also gone from tour 128-130, when I also wasn't flying the Il-2 for three months in a row.
So while its not totally "dead", except to Lusche, we can pretty much call it gelded.
It is STILL #2 airborne tank killer. That's a simple fact. You are using the term "dead "in a very creative way. ;)
Edit: As for "they only are used vs panzers":
(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/5395/airbm4.jpg)
Kills by Il-2 went from 8.65% to 7.67%
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Cleary evident how this score guy was racking up hundreds of kills in the Il-2 only before suddenly abandoning the plane after F3 was removed.
I know you never flew it much, tho you scored well when you did. Point is after losing F3 you didnt fly it at all.
Very flawed logic.
The Panzer IV is by far the most used tank in AH, and especially most used when rolling the enemy bases. If generally nobody would up it to kill tanks due to F3 removal, there wouldn't be much Panzer been killed either. Also I do not know how no F3 would have any impact on armor penetration. If F3 makes it more difficult to find tanks and players stop using it because of that, there is no reason why it should impact Panzer IV kills more than other tank kills.
Nothing flawed about it. The IV is so defensless you can fly level to it and kill it. The other tanks, most of all Tigers, T-34s, Panthers, even Sherms, you have to build up Alt while lining up the plane correctly, "all the while keeping a 360% view cause the Stormbird is so helpless against fighters", and then you have to come down at a steep angle and punch thru the top armor of many of the tanks. The NS-37s are only rated at 50mm at 200 yrds. Without the F3 it makes the entire process much more difficult. Since the plane cant roll worth a darn you have to rudder to setup the shot and makes placement far more difficult. The stats all reflect this and since you avoided the plane since it lost F3 how could you even be argueing this. Ive killed thousands of tanks in the thing, maybe my point has some merit "ya think"?
Forget the P-4. Its made out of paper machete. In tour 135 the Stormbird killed 32 Tigers, 346 T-34/85s, 130 T-34/76s, 51 Panthers, 374 Sherman 76s, and 332 Sherman 75s. In 136, minus F3, it killed 8 Tigers, 78 T-34/85s, 41 T-34/76s, 25 Panthers, 127 Sherm 76s, and 154 Sherm 154s.
Is any of this adding up yet ?
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I know you never flew it much, tho you scored well when you did. Point is after losing F3 you didnt fly it at all.
What point? I'm flying the Il-2 on and off for years.What exactly are you trying to say? That I do not fly it anymore because of missing F3? I often have (as shown above) months of not flying it. So what does that prove?
Nothing flawed about it. The IV is so defensless you can fly level to it and kill it. The other tanks, most of all Tigers, T-34s, Panthers, even Sherms, you have to build up Alt while lining up the plane correctly, "all the while keeping a 360% view cause the Stormbird is so helpless against fighters", and then you have to come down at a steep angle and punch thru the top armor of many of the tanks. The NS-37s are only rated at 50mm at 200 yrds. Without the F3 it makes the entire process much more difficult. Since the plane cant roll worth a darn you have to rudder to setup the shot and makes placement far more difficult. The stats all reflect this and since you avoided the plane since it lost F3 how could you even be argueing this. Ive killed thousands of tanks in the thing, maybe my point has some merit "ya think"?
Forget the P-4. Its made out of paper machete. In tour 135 the Stormbird killed 32 Tigers, 346 T-34/85s, 130 T-34/76s, 51 Panthers, 374 Sherman 76s, and 332 Sherman 75s. In 136, minus F3, it killed 8 Tigers, 78 T-34/85s, 41 T-34/76s, 25 Panthers, 127 Sherm 76s, and 154 Sherm 154s.
Is any of this adding up yet ?
You are really getting desperate now. :)
You mad a claim that isn't supported by numbers at all. The overhwelming majority of killed tanks in AH are M4(76) and Panzer IV. With both tanks, the Il-2 usage took a hit, but the plane is still #3 and #2 airborne killer. How much you try to twist and grab straws and continue to use absolute instead of relative numbers (which is, simply put, a major methodological blunder), this is not a "dead" plane in the AT role.
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HURRICANE IID!!!
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What point? I'm flying the Il-2 on and off for years.What exactly are you trying to say? That I do not fly it anymore because of missing F3? I often have (as shown above) months of not flying it. So what does that prove?
We are reading the same graph arent we ? It appears the 3 of the 4 months you didnt fly the IL2 before the F3 ended you didnt fly any of the 3 planes much. Since the F3 ended you went almost 100% Hurri-D, flying it quite a bit. Really it looks to me like you dont want to fly the IL2 anymore, tho I suspect tanks have nothing to do with it. A Hurri-D is far better at avoiding/engaging enemy fighters then a F3-less IL2. And far better at protecting your K/D. :D
With both tanks, the Il-2 usage took a hit, but the plane is still #3 and #2 airborne killer
Yeah but there are only 3 legitimate tank killer aircraft lol You can add the Yak-T except it doesnt really kill any tanks. So you have the B-25H, the IL2, and the Hurri-D. So being #3 or #2 means exactly what ? :huh
You mad a claim that isn't supported by numbers at all. The overhwelming majority of killed tanks in AH are M4(76) and Panzer IV. With both tanks, the Il-2 usage took a hit, but the plane is still #3 and #2 airborne killer.
Say that again slowly to yourself.
I think you got pawned here Lusche. Further argument is pointless.................... .. :salute
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At the risk of banging a much worn out drum, here goes.
This is a great game. I find more now for the people you fight with and against rather than the score, K/D, hit percentage or kills landed. You catch up with people and have a laugh. You fight sometimes the same people and know after about two or three turns their style and if you are in for a whooping or not and how humiliating that whopping is going to be. Then you can either have a mutual <S> or a barrage of abuse over 200 that ends in a mutual <S> - or at the most a grudging respect. It’s all good times except........
I just can’t get next to why F3 is allowed in the DA, for the life of me. I haunt the DA probably as much as the MA for the most part. No crime in that. It’s my $15.00 ($14.08 my money today by the way) and if I want to fly a Spit XVI in the DA (or the MA for that matter) and you don’t like it - well - you don't like it - end of story. There are some good people in the DA. Great place for merging and gunnery practice... and a laugh.
But there seems to be a group of people that refuse to fly in the MA and some are quite honest about using outside view exclusively. Not only that they are very quick to talk their game up based on that. The game is never a level playing field – alt energy - plane differences – skill differences – attitude make that so. It’s not “New Sports Day” where everyone gets a prize.
But at least one glaring inconsistency can be removed to at least get to a point where it is worthwhile and can really hone your game.
As I said, it’s been raised before and it probably will again. I don’t want to change the world, just a small portion of it.
Cheers.
Way to get this BBS motivated.
<S> sir.
Coogan
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And far better at protecting your K/D.
Ok i fly the hurri D a lot and i gotta say that people that up the IL-2 get a far better K/D then i do, and also i see IL-2s up way more often with the b25s and such so i don't think the IL-2 died in any way, just telling you what i see. people use the Il-2 and are skilled with it they even use it as a figther.
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Im glad you have a man hero to look up to, every boy should.
Ahhh, argumentum ad hominem...the argument of the weak minded.
I'm quite certain your attempt at humoring yourself must have gotten in the way of making your point. There really isn't any other explanation. I'm also certain that at this point in the thread, no one can distinguish whether you are arguing to keep F3 for player participation in the IL2 or if you're arguing to keep F3 out of the game because it's easy-mode in the IL2 because the numbers prove both. Please choose a point to make because at this particular junction, the only point I see you making is your head.
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Rich, well what do you make of this?:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/planes.php
IL2 k/d
tour - k/d
138 1.04
137 1.03
136 0.86
135 0.99
134 0.99
133 0.96
132 0.94
131 0.93
130 0.92
129 0.88
128 0.96
127 0.95
126 0.97
Seems to me getting rid of F3 helped. IL2 finally holds it's own, K/D >1
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Rich, well what do you make of this?:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/planes.php
IL2 k/d
tour - k/d
138 1.04
137 1.03
136 0.86
135 0.99
134 0.99
133 0.96
132 0.94
131 0.93
130 0.92
129 0.88
128 0.96
127 0.95
126 0.97
Seems to me getting rid of F3 helped. IL2 finally holds it's own, K/D >1
Well that's all well and good but it's NOT a pie chart! hehehehehehheheheeh
Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
All the Best...
Jay
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Ohh look rich46yo is back. :rofl
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[You] want the facts to fit the preconceptions. When they don't it is easier to ignore the facts than to change the preconceptions. ~ Jessamyn West
Pesky facts create these long posts about... well it's mostly not about the original topic...
F3, glad it left.
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Had a long post done but the forum crashed and Im not going thru it again. Besides the trolls are starting to show up anyways.
The initial dip of .99 to .86, when F3 was lost, anwers your own question anyway. Then the airplane lost 2/3'rds of its players and those left no doubt moderated their use the the IL2. Can anyone really say the plane is more effective without F3 ? But my whole point is why just the IL2 ? Why would only it be stricken from the "attacker" option and not the A-20 and others. To score it now only in the "fighter" category is silly. It was not an air to air fighter. It was a bomber/attacker.
The science and History behind the decision ? "Waaa-Waaa that IL2 is killing my perked tanks", "Waa-Waaa those IL2s are killing my fighters when I HO them on my vulch runs", and "Waa-Waaa those IL2s are killing tanks and ruining my spawn camp in my Tiger".
Rich, well what do you make of this?:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/planes.php
IL2 k/d
tour - k/d
138 1.04
137 1.03
136 0.86
135 0.99
134 0.99
133 0.96
132 0.94
131 0.93
130 0.92
129 0.88
128 0.96
127 0.95
126 0.97
Seems to me getting rid of F3 helped. IL2 finally holds it's own, K/D >1
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Can anyone really say the plane is more effective without F3 ?
it's more effective, since it is killing more than it's dying.. k/d above 1 for the first time in a year.
I guess we might need a definition of effective.