Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Major Biggles on August 08, 2011, 07:20:49 PM
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It is absolutely crazy right now...
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Stay safe Biggles. Prayers for you and your family in these rough times
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On the BBC news I saw pictures of the people in Tottenham looting. Sadly they were of a particular group of people, therefore I cannot continue to comment without looking racist. Bloody stereotypical looters though!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP-td3C55Yc
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Cheers mate. I'm actually out of London atm, thank God, but one major riot is less than a mile from my house, and moving towards it. Very worrying...
All over london shops have been looted then burned, and apparently the violence is spreading to cities further north. Bonkers...
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On the BBC news I saw pictures of the people in Tottenham looting. Sadly they were of a particular group of people, therefore I cannot continue to comment without looking racist. Bloody stereotypical looters though!
quite...
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I dont watch the news...what the hell they rioting for?
stay safe :pray
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I dont watch the news...what the hell they rioting for?
stay safe :pray
According to the newspaper i read this morning, it started out as a peaceful protest against the slaying of a young man by london police. I don't know the full story of incident, but apparently it has spiraled into full blown looting, vandalising and rioting. How they think they're honoring the memory of the dead man by causing destruction and mayhem for so many other innocent people is beyond me.
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I dont watch the news...what the hell they rioting for?
stay safe :pray
Well it all kicked off a few days ago after a protest went sour over the police shooting of some guy. Dunno why there was a protest because the guy shot a policeman before he was killed. Since then it's rapidly escalated and there is violence and looting all over London. It is now NOTHING to do with that original protest, it's just kids off the council estates out to destroy things and loot, purely criminal behaviour. The police just can't cope with the sheer number...
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there is an old saying..."never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"
sounds like a perfect example
Well it all kicked off a few days ago after a protest went sour over the police shooting of some guy. Dunno why there was a protest because the guy shot a policeman before he was killed. Since then it's rapidly escalated and there is violence and looting all over London. It is now NOTHING to do with that original protest, it's just kids off the council estates out to destroy things and loot, purely criminal behaviour. The police just can't cope with the sheer number...
I pray you and your family do not get caught up in this.
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According to the newspaper i read this morning, it started out as a peaceful protest against the slaying of a young man by london police. I don't know the full story of incident, but apparently it has spiraled into full blown looting, vandalising and rioting. How they think they're honoring the memory of the dead man by causing destruction and mayhem for so many other innocent people is beyond me.
Left wing BS. The police went out to arrest this guy with a warrant, found him in a taxi, the guy shot at the police officer (not fatally), so the police returned fire and killed him. That somehow has spaked all of this, but to be honest, it's rubbish. These kids all just saw violence getting out of control on TV with police unable to stop it, and so decided it was safe to go out and loot. Entire streets are burning as we speak...
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there is an old saying..."never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"
sounds like a perfect example
I pray you and your family do not get caught up in this.
Thanks mate :aok
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scary stuff Biggles. Wish you and your family the best :pray
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Coming to a theater near you... :noid
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Coming to a theater near you... :noid
:noid
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biggles stay safe...keep a shotgun handy at all times. and a knife. and a pistol. and some high-grade explosive. just in case ;) hope ya make it through fine.
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biggles stay safe...keep a shotgun handy at all times. and a knife. and a pistol. and some high-grade explosive. just in case ;) hope ya make it through fine.
It's the UK...
must... refrain... from... political statement.
:bolt:
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And my teacher was stunned today when I said humanity makes me sad. This is just another reason.
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its england...who cares
stay safe biggles
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um, the English perhaps?
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its england...who cares
stay safe biggles
Because it is already happening in your back yard, though not on the scale as in England.
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Left wing BS. The police went out to arrest this guy with a warrant, found him in a taxi, the guy shot at the police officer (not fatally), so the police returned fire and killed him. That somehow has spaked all of this, but to be honest, it's rubbish. These kids all just saw violence getting out of control on TV with police unable to stop it, and so decided it was safe to go out and loot. Entire streets are burning as we speak...
Sounds like LA in 1992. I think looters ought to be dealt some pain on sight. Too bad the British cant defend themselves like the Korean grocers in LA, I'd give anything to see some old time skirmish lines with Enfields or Martini-Henry rifles in front of s store. :D
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Left wing BS. The police went out to arrest this guy with a warrant, found him in a taxi, the guy shot at the police officer (not fatally), so the police returned fire and killed him. That somehow has spaked all of this, but to be honest, it's rubbish. These kids all just saw violence getting out of control on TV with police unable to stop it, and so decided it was safe to go out and loot. Entire streets are burning as we speak...
I seem to recall if a officer is shot at he has every right to kill the shooter. This entire thing is bs
Edit: Unless there are different rules, but it should still apply. I have no idea's what the rules are for that in the UK
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Yea, but america was born with the rioting in our blood.
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It is absolutely crazy right now...
i just saw this....that it's gotten this bad that is. i truly hope all of our uk members are safe.
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And my teacher was stunned today when I said humanity makes me sad. This is just another reason.
although i generally like to think mankind is good.....one thing i keep coming back to.........
if we are the best that the big guy upstairs could come up with.........well.....we're not....that is why i know there is other life in the universe.
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although i generally like to think mankind is good.....one thing i keep coming back to.........
if we are the best that the big guy upstairs could come up with.........well.....we're not....that is why i know there is other life in the universe.
I agree, I believe in other life outside our planet, but I don't give it much thought. Its nothing serious to be worried about anyway, if they are so highly technological they will come to us
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This has nothing to do with whatever political statement it started out as initially. The rioters are all criminals taking advantage of the situation; they should be shot.
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This has nothing to do with whatever political statement it started out as initially. The rioters are all criminals taking advantage of the situation; they should be shot.
i've always thought that about rioters. there is no excuse for it. and not the rubber bullets either.
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Label the rioters as terrorist, then send in the army. See just how quickly it stops. :devil
Stay safe.
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its teh zombie apocalypse :noid
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:headscratch:
Agreed, coming to a theater near you. I hope not but riots are slowly showing up across Europe. Tensions are high. The combined GDP of the world is around $60 trillion yet the combined debts of the world is $160 trillion. Cannot be paid, and this does not include pensions, medicare, etc. About every 50-70 years there is a debt reset. Bretton Woods in '44 was the last wholesale change.
I am pretty concerned but...
Boo
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It's spreading round the whole country, it's pretty insane how far they have taken things now. I'm glad I have lots of weapons. If they start rioting in my town I will be patroling the yard with my compound bow and a broadsword and I'm not even joking. I agree with Grizz, I think they should be shot.
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France is resisting, UK is resiting, so tell me my fellow American WHY ARE WE NOT?
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Must not get to Detroit or other neighboring city's much. It kills me that we have troops ordered to all
these other country's dictating (or keep the peace) how things should go, when we should be watching our own back yard.
Coogan
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Pull down public housing and take away welfare and i bet they would have more to do like get a job! less rioting then.
I am sure i saw TRICKY from the old 9 giap in a few clip over there.
forkit
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The world gets more and more crazy as the planets falls into alignment... Just saying. :noid
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this has nothing to do with the shooting, or politics, or race, or budget cuts, or the economy. its just packs of feral kids. dont believe all the "its just a few bad apples" stuff either, this complete disregard for the law and society, and lack of respect for others is endemic.
should have deployed water cannon and rubber bullets starting Sunday evening. if this was happening in Belfast it would have been stomped on in about an hour.
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this has nothing to do with the shooting, or politics, or race, or budget cuts, or the economy. its just packs of feral kids. dont believe all the "its just a few bad apples" stuff either, this complete disregard for the law and society, and lack of respect for others is endemic.
should have deployed water cannon and rubber bullets starting Sunday evening. if this was happening in Belfast it would have been stomped on in about an hour.
:aok
Oh and cobia, this isn't a zombie apocalypse, it is Rise of the Planet of the Apes. Live...
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Well it all kicked off a few days ago after a protest went sour over the police shooting of some guy. Dunno why there was a protest because the guy shot a policeman before he was killed. Since then it's rapidly escalated and there is violence and looting all over London. It is now NOTHING to do with that original protest, it's just kids off the council estates out to destroy things and loot, purely criminal behaviour. The police just can't cope with the sheer number...
For the sake of most of the Americans, perhaps you'd like to define what a "council esatate" is..? No agenda intended, I just doubt many of 'em know it.
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And my teacher was stunned today when I said humanity makes me sad. This is just another reason.
I guess I don't understand your impulse to make this into a general statement about humanity. It's kind of like defining a vehicle by a failure mode.
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For the sake of most of the Americans, perhaps you'd like to define what a "council esatate" is..? No agenda intended, I just doubt many of 'em know it.
council estate = projects iirc.
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The rioters are criminals taking advantage of the situation.
yep pretty much
but just to stir the pot...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/07/police-attack-london-burns
The fatal shooting of Mark Duggan, which sparked the Tottenham riots took a dramatic twist with the revelation that there may not have been any exchange of fire during his arrest.
Initial reports from the Independent police complaints commission were that during an apparent exchange of fire police officers from C019 fired two shots which killed Duggan. The suggestion was that officers could have come under fire from the minicab carrying Duggan on Thursday night.
Much of this assumption came from the fact that a bullet had lodged in a police radio worn by an officer at the scene – raising speculation he might have been fired at from the vehicle. A non police issue handgun was also recovered at the scene where Duggan was shot dead in Ferry Road.
But the Guardian understands that initial ballistics tests on the bullet lodged in the officer's radio show that it was a police issued bullet – and had not therefore been fired by Duggan or anyone else in the area.
The revelation comes as one community leader suggested that the handgun recovered was found in a sock and therefore not ready for use.
It is likely to fuel anger on the streets of Tottenham and elsewhere in London as it provides evidence that officers were not under attack at the time they opened fire on Duggan.
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It's spreading round the whole country, it's pretty insane how far they have taken things now. I'm glad I have lots of weapons. If they start rioting in my town I will be patroling the yard with my compound bow and a broadsword and I'm not even joking. I agree with Grizz, I think they should be shot.
I'll second that. I'm glad to see you're managing despite the "legislative" hurdles there. I've got a nice L1A1 I'd lend you, since many in your country are familiar, but sadly, it'd never make it across the border. Always my fave, that black plastic British adaptation of the big Belgian...
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council estate = projects iirc.
There isnt really an american term for it. It is essentially a large area of free housing provided by the government for the poorest people. Unfortunately many become hotbeds of crime. They are not neighbourhoods of their own like american projects. Sometimes you will find a really nasty estate just round the corner from a very nice shopping high street.
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:headscratch:
Agreed, coming to a theater near you. I hope not but riots are slowly showing up across Europe. Tensions are high. The combined GDP of the world is around $60 trillion yet the combined debts of the world is $160 trillion. Cannot be paid, and this does not include pensions, medicare, etc. About every 50-70 years there is a debt reset. Bretton Woods in '44 was the last wholesale change.
I am pretty concerned but...
Boo
i'm not sure if i should go here or not.......ALL of this rioting cannot possibly be over one person....i really wonder if it could have something to do with people losing their free stuff, considering the current situations........
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Sounds like something is really wrong and people were just looking for an excuse to explode. Anyone bothering trying to figure out why, or are all the Brits BZ labeling people? People don't riot for no reason (although, they will use any stupid excuse to do so). No one has ever rioted because they just were too happy :old:
And no, I am not saying that what they do is right. Only saying that something led to this and unless fixed, it will happen again and again and again.
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i'm not sure if i should go here or not.......ALL of this rioting cannot possibly be over one person....i really wonder if it could have something to do with people losing their free stuff, considering the current situations........
It's all a big misunderstanding. These aren't rioting criminals, they're athletes in training for the London 2012 Olympics. The mobs carrying Molotov cocktails and setting objects on fire? Why they're just trying out for the position of the ceremonial torch bearer. The guys throwing brick and using poles to break store windows? They're training for the discus and javelin competitions. The struggles between police and citizens are all in preparation for Greco-roman wrestling and gladiator combat.
Sarcasm over. Not trying to make lite of this dire situation. It's unfortunate that so many young people are lashing out against any form of authority that attempts to keep us civilized. They have no respect for personal wellbeing, possessions, or sacrifice. it's a crying shame this is how they behave when so many men and women have given up their lives in the past and present for the sake of all, including this guilty bunch.
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See Rules #6, #14
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Anyone bothering trying to figure out why ..?
its pretty obvious really - way too much carrot, nowhere near enough stick.
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While I feel for what is happening there, the forum posting rules still apply folks. Regardless of the country of origin, discussion of politics is not allowed on this board.
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See Rule #4
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Sounds like something is really wrong and people were just looking for an excuse to explode. Anyone bothering trying to figure out why, or are all the Brits BZ labeling people? People don't riot for no reason (although, they will use any stupid excuse to do so). No one has ever rioted because they just were too happy :old:
And no, I am not saying that what they do is right. Only saying that something led to this and unless fixed, it will happen again and again and again.
What if the "cause" was the lack of a countervailing and credible threat? Would you still support implementation of the solution?
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Sounds like something is really wrong and people were just looking for an excuse to explode. Anyone bothering trying to figure out why, or are all the Brits BZ labeling people? People don't riot for no reason (although, they will use any stupid excuse to do so). No one has ever rioted because they just were too happy :old:
And no, I am not saying that what they do is right. Only saying that something led to this and unless fixed, it will happen again and again and again.
I'll try to respond again without getting Rule'd...I couldn't care less about politics, was just trying to answer the queries about a possible cause for this unrest! :rolleyes:
"There is nothing more dangerous than to build a society with a large segment of people in that society who feel that they have no stake in it; who feel that that have nothing to lose. People who have stake in their society, protect that society, but when they don't have it, they unconsciously want to destroy it."
— Martin Luther King Jr.
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I'll try to respond again without getting Rule'd...I couldn't care less about politics, was just trying to answer the queries about a possible cause for this unrest! :rolleyes:
"There is nothing more dangerous than to build a society with a large segment of people in that society who feel that they have no stake in it; who feel that that have nothing to lose. People who have stake in their society, protect that society, but when they don't have it, they unconsciously want to destroy it."
— Martin Luther King Jr.
What he said :old:
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What if the "cause" was the lack of a countervailing and credible threat? Would you still support implementation of the solution?
there really is no justifiable cause to riot like this. none that we've seen so far. i feel bad for our members living in that area.
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What if the "cause" was the lack of a countervailing and credible threat? Would you still support implementation of the solution?
I am not sure I understand what you wrote. I did not mention any causes or solutions
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there really is no justifiable cause to riot like this. none that we've seen so far. i feel bad for our members living in that area.
And here lies the problem with everything. You have not seen it so it does not exist. Like, film or it did not happen lol. You would have be there for a few decades in order to see it and understand it (what ever it is)
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there really is no justifiable cause to riot like this. none that we've seen so far. i feel bad for our members living in that area.
If it happened, there was a cause - unless you believe in a universe free of causality. I don't think it was a good or justifiable cause - indeed, I posit that it's mor eor less because the people involved feel they'll suffer no consequences.
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If it happened, there was a cause - unless you believe in a universe free of causality. I don't think it was a good or justifiable cause - indeed, I posit that it's mor eor less because the people involved feel they'll suffer no consequences.
I don;t think you have any clue as to what the cause is. Is the reaction justified? No, but it is what happens when people are pushed to that point. Take the LA riots as an example. How many people making over 100K per year do you think were involved in those, given that as you said the reason is that they know they will suffer no consequences?
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If it happened, there was a cause - unless you believe in a universe free of causality. I don't think it was a good or justifiable cause - indeed, I posit that it's mor eor less because the people involved feel they'll suffer no consequences.
i didn't say there's no cause. i said there's no justifiable cause.
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this has nothing to do with race,
Really? So there's not one predominant race that is rioting? The pictures I've seen make it quite clear that it is about race.
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are 'poor people' a race now?
i've seen white, brown and black people smashing and stealing
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Really? So there's not one predominant race that is rioting? The pictures I've seen make it quite clear that it is about race.
That is such BS :rofl. When there were riots in Greece a few months back I guess it was the "Retired" race and then later the "Taxi Driver" race causing them. Open your minds a bit and don;t think that everything looks like the US. I can assure you, there have not been any black people rioting in Greece, China, Poland, India etc. :rofl
People riot for the same reasons no matter what race, color, or location. Now, if you do push a certain group more than others, you may end up seeing the same people rioting over and over and then decide that somehow it is in their DNA :lol
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That is such BS :rofl. When there were riots in Greece a few months back I guess it was the "Retired" race and then later the "Taxi Driver" race causing them. Open your minds a bit and don;t think that everything looks like the US. I can assure you, there have not been any black people rioting in Greece, China, Poland, India etc. :rofl
People riot for the same reasons no matter what race, color, or location. Now, if you do push a certain group more than others, you may end up seeing the same people rioting over and over and then decide that somehow it is in their DNA :lol
I'm talking about the riots in England ... not sure what Greece has to do with it. or China, or Poland or India. The pictures of rioters in England have mostly been of one race. Whether you think my mind is open or not doesnt matter either. The facts are what they are. It's not my doing and I'm not voicing any personal opinions about who is responsible.
Edit: I've been told from people there that some of the muslim community is involved as well. Could be heresay. Of course, I wouldn't be surprised to see that uniquely Brit class of rioters involved, the "anarchists"
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It's spreading round the whole country, it's pretty insane how far they have taken things now. I'm glad I have lots of weapons. If they start rioting in my town I will be patroling the yard with my compound bow and a broadsword and I'm not even joking. I agree with Grizz, I think they should be shot.
I'm sorry, I couldn't take anyone seriously unless they were wielding a MINIMUM of a .243 caliber.
Bow and sword....LMAO!!!! (Envisions skit of Monty Python)
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Come back and fight!
:rofl
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Come back and fight!
:rofl
Exactly! :rofl
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I'm talking about the riots in England ... not sure what Greece has to do with it. or China, or Poland or India. The pictures of rioters in England have mostly been of one race. Whether you think my mind is open or not doesnt matter either. The facts are what they are. It's not my doing and I'm not voicing any personal opinions about who is responsible.
Edit: I've been told from people there that some of the muslim community is involved as well. Could be heresay.
You're missing the point, race is not the common factor, it's economic situation. The fact that economic situation and race are correlated is a issue thats cause dates back hundreds of years.
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I don;t think you have any clue as to what the cause is. Is the reaction justified? No, but it is what happens when people are pushed to that point. Take the LA riots as an example. How many people making over 100K per year do you think were involved in those, given that as you said the reason is that they know they will suffer no consequences?
Ah, yes, but someone with a solid income does stand to lose. Go back to that quote from MLK. The truly dangerous person in society is the one with nothing to take. You seem to think someone is doing the pushing. Really? Or is it that part of maturation is an evoluiton of action from random to purposeful?
I see little here that points ot any deeper cause than those two factors combined - unless you think council estates are somehow oppressive. Doubtless they're unpleasant places to live but then, you get what you pay for.
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You're missing the point, race is not the common factor, it's economic situation. The fact that economic situation and race are correlated is a issue thats cause dates back hundreds of years.
I didn't miss any points. I have opinions why the black community here in the US has more than its share of problems which has nothing to do with race, really ( pandering black leadership and social programs which created dependency), but I don't know much about the black community in GB. I just know what the pictures show.
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I just know what the pictures show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDR1hqKSHUI
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"There is nothing more dangerous than to build a society with a large segment of people in that society who feel that they have no stake in it; who feel that that have nothing to lose. People who have stake in their society, protect that society, but when they don't have it, they unconsciously want to destroy it."
— Martin Luther King Jr.
Looks to me the only noble cause they are reflecting is they want to steal. http://video.foxnews.com/v/1100354840001/out-of-control-rioters-captured-on-cell-phone-video
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDR1hqKSHUI
:rofl I know not ment to be funny but the guy saying "man they need back up" gets me. A bit of a understatement
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Being a Londoner I can tell you conclusively that this is about poor kids wanting a free pair of Nike trainers and some new bling... These kids have grown up on estates where there is no discipline, no punishment, no father figures. The have no concern for anyone but themselves, because they have never been taught to.
Yes it's a sad situation, and there are social factors that have lead to this, but that is NO excuse. It is pure criminality just because these 14 year old kids think they can get away with it. I'm eagerly waiting for the army to be called in, and see some of these little butterers shot. Hopefully then, finally, they will realise that looting and burning peoples homes down is going to get you in SEVERE trouble. I'd like to see some of the community out in force together tonight to dish out some beatings of their own, and show these little thugs that we won't stand idly by and we aren't scared of them in their hoods and scarves...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDR1hqKSHUI
Sorry Coombs, I live so far out in the woods that cellular internet is all I get so I won't view the vid. 60mps in less than two weeks, though!
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Looks to me the only noble cause they are reflecting is they want to steal. http://video.foxnews.com/v/1100354840001/out-of-control-rioters-captured-on-cell-phone-video
That guys phone and this thread are racist, if it doesn't stop, I'm leaving.
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Rioters should be shot. Period.
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Being a Londoner I can tell you conclusively that this is about poor kids wanting a free pair of Nike trainers and some new bling...
Some of them are still getting free shoes
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/AZC4guy/stripped.jpg)
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Well supposedly there will be 15,000 police available in London tonight compared to 5,000 last night so hopefully the scumbags will take note and pack it in, if they don't then hopefully they will get a few sore heads.
Around 500 arrested so far, 100 charged and they are being charged for committing offences in a riot so they are going to Crown Court where sentences will be tougher. On the radio tonight they said that a surprising number had jobs, not all the underpriveleged, unemployed and socially deprived that the excuse makers would have us believe. Police have loads of cctv and pictures, a lot of them will be caught, quite a few have already been caught from twitter and facebook rantings.
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I'm talking about the riots in England ... not sure what Greece has to do with it. or China, or Poland or India. The pictures of rioters in England have mostly been of one race. Whether you think my mind is open or not doesnt matter either. The facts are what they are. It's not my doing and I'm not voicing any personal opinions about who is responsible.
Edit: I've been told from people there that some of the muslim community is involved as well. Could be heresay. Of course, I wouldn't be surprised to see that uniquely Brit class of rioters involved, the "anarchists"
Yes, the facts are what they are. And the facts are that riots are not caused by a certain race (that is why the examples of the other countries). But, don;t let any facts stop you. Use your own :lol
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Ah, yes, but someone with a solid income does stand to lose.
What is he going to lose if as you stated he knows he will get away with it? I am confused.
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Rioters should be shot. Period.
Yes, that will fix it for sure :lol There will be no more violence if the government comes out shooting. That has worked through out history :rofl
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Sorry Coombs, I live so far out in the woods that cellular internet is all I get so I won't view the vid. 60mps in less than two weeks, though!
It's a pretty hairy vid of 10 coppers suddenly getting rushed by 100 yobs...
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I feel bad for the coppers. They know they are being filmed and all they have to do is bang some kid on the head to hard and the Govt. will hang them to appease the masses. 111 hurt already, some of them bad from the thrown objects.
My :pray for the Police over there trying to save lives and property from these knuckleheads.
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Yes, the facts are what they are. And the facts are that riots are not caused by a certain race (that is why the examples of the other countries). But, don;t let any facts stop you. Use your own :lol
Easy there, fantasy boy. I didn't say any race was causing anything. All I said was, all the pictures(from early parts of riot) I've seen show predominantly one race, and thus it has to be about race.. at least one of the factors. Now, the fact that it is race related doesn't mean that the source isn't socioeconomic, but to deny that the rioters were initially predominantly black is just plain disingenuous for the sake of PC
That's the only fact I stated. You are making assumptions without information.
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Yes, that will fix it for sure :lol There will be no more violence if the government comes out shooting. That has worked through out history :rofl
It will stop those who are rioting from rioting because you can't riot very well after you have been shot.
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What is he going to lose if as you stated he knows he will get away with it? I am confused.
I stated that about the rioters - see Biggles post. These people are dependent, lawless, and completely adrift. You attempt to state that someone who is not will receive equal treatment. Now I'm confused.
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Sorry Coombs, I live so far out in the woods that cellular internet is all I get so I won't view the vid. 60mps in less than two weeks, though!
:aok no worries
what i was intending the vid to illustrate is that a lot of the rioters are white
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Easy there, fantasy boy. I didn't say any race was causing anything. All I said was, all the pictures(from early parts of riot) I've seen show predominantly one race, and thus it has to be about race.. at least one of the factors. Now, the fact that it is race related doesn't mean that the source isn't socioeconomic, but to deny that the rioters were initially predominantly black is just plain disingenuous for the sake of PC
That's the only fact I stated. You are making assumptions without information.
I apologize. I now understand that you did not say it was any race causing anything. You just said that it has to be about race or at list you made sure you pointed out it was one specific race and that it is race related. How uninformed of me.
Do I need to bold your text or will you be able to find the above in your quote on your own? And btw, the few pictures you have seen could or could not represent all the rioters. You make the choice to assume that they do, but you really don;t know. If the pictures only had white people in them, would say it was race related?
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Yes, that will fix it for sure :lol There will be no more violence if the government comes out shooting. That has worked through out history :rofl
Law and order does tend to work pretty well. You make it out like this is Ptersburg and Czarist troops are mowing down starving indigents. Ded, this isn't Selma. I don't understand your attempt to imply just cause on this.
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If the pictures only had white people in them, would say it was race related?
I'd say it was related to a culture that finds it more attractive to smash things than produce them - and seems to live gratis in a council estate. But that's just a fact-based read... The race issue will just reflect the overall demographics of that culture.
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Speaking of justifying it, check out this report from NBC:
"Think about this: To cope with the violence, London’s Mayor Boris Johnson interrupted his family vacation in North America.
Prime Minister David Cameron returned from his vacation in a (shared) ten thousand pounds a week villa in Italy where he was reportedly taking tennis lessons with a coach flown out from Britain.
Home Secretary Theresa May cut short her vacation in Switzerland.
Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg returned from his vacation in France.
I was wondering as I watched, from a safe distance, a mob of young men, running, looting and throwing bottles, when the last time was that one of them had a vacation. Probably never. I thought, this is their vacation. It’s a break from their routine of hanging around street-corners. It’s fun, for them. They were laughing as police chased them."
Haaaaw, haaaaw, haaaw. NBC... supposes it's because these "young men" have never been "on holiday"... I thought living in the council estates bone idle was sort of one long holiday or, I suppose many working people in Britain have likewise never been "on holiday" yet, for some reason, still don't choose to smash windows for a new ipod and pair of trainers. My guess as to why they were laughing: they know the "bobbies" are so toothless that they won't fire a shot. You can't shoot the little darlings... it simply isn't done in civilized society. Yet how civil is civilized society for the last 3 nights?
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See Rule #4
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:aok no worries
what i was intending the vid to illustrate is that a lot of the rioters are white
ahh. Thanks. I'm willing to take your word for it. :aok
When I think of London riots, I think of anarchists. Are they too taking this opportunity to raise mayhem?
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Sorry Coombs, I live so far out in the woods that cellular internet is all I get so I won't view the vid. 60mps in less than two weeks, though!
Hope to see ya back soon Steve.
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Law and order does tend to work pretty well. You make it out like this is Ptersburg and Czarist troops are mowing down starving indigents. Ded, this isn't Selma. I don't understand your attempt to imply just cause on this.
Nah, All I asked was if someone is looking in to finding the real reasons why it is happening. Fix that and law and order is restored. Don;t fix it and it will happen again. Justified or not, it will happen. Shooting at them or not, it will happen. Don't forget that your reason for this was that they know they could get away with it and that is what I was responding to. I just think it may be a little dipper than that. No one ever rioted because he was too happy and could not take it any more.
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I apologize.
Accepted.
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Accepted.
That would have been clever if you did not get #4 first :rofl
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http://www.rr.com/news/gallerylondonriots#rr%2F48239326%2F48065758%2F
found some interesting pics about all this on the homepage of my internet. looks bad over there
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I just think it may be a little dipper than that. No one ever rioted because he was too happy and could not take it any more.
That's all true, Ded - or at least I agree. I'm just thinking that part of the issue, and it goes back to my first question to you, may require a bit of "discipline". Kids are kind of random, and they often seek to find thier limits. Often, I think modern society fails to push back. Part of THAT is doubtless rooted in the fact that we sort of assume the parents within the family will impose the healthy structure and limits. What do we do when that breaks down?
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See Rules #4, #5 (you are pushing it)
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See Rules #4, #5 (you are pushing it)
I love you, man.
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Nah, All I asked was if someone is looking in to finding the real reasons why it is happening. Fix that and law and order is restored. Don;t fix it and it will happen again. Justified or not, it will happen. Shooting at them or not, it will happen. Don't forget that your reason for this was that they know they could get away with it and that is what I was responding to. I just think it may be a little dipper than that. No one ever rioted because he was too happy and could not take it any more.
Like someone already mentioned, it is purely oppertunism mixed with hordes of people who have no stake in society and nothing to lose by commiting crimes.
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I love you, man.
I was gonna say, he's in a mighty generous mood today. :D
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so far the police have killed two people with very little reason,i have nothing else to say
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so far the police have killed to people with very little reason,i have nothing else to say
thats a shame, we really need the opinions of someone who doesnt know the difference between to and two.
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That's all true, Ded - or at least I agree. I'm just thinking that part of the issue, and it goes back to my first question to you, may require a bit of "discipline". Kids are kind of random, and they often seek to find thier limits. Often, I think modern society fails to push back. Part of THAT is doubtless rooted in the fact that we sort of assume the parents within the family will impose the healthy structure and limits. What do we do when that breaks down?
Agreed. Just a few comments. I don;t know if it has anything to do with kids and discipline. If it does, then it is a hole different conversation on how and why they got to were they are. I don;t think they were born that way.
As far as what we do once it breaks down, I think at that point we are screwed. You cant easily fix everything that breaks. The idea is to not let it get there. But I think society does push back. I did not riot as a kid and I don;t think my kids are going to either. One has to be put in the right environment to trigger all that. Eliminating the environment should be the solution. Once people get to the point of rioting no one wins.
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thats a shame, we really need the opinions of someone who doesnt know the difference between to and two.
But we do need the opinions of someone that does not know the difference between "thats" and that's" or "doesnt" and doesn't.
SMRT SMRT SMRT Duh!!!!
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I'd be interested to review some of the laws that directly or indirectly impact the core of these youths. As an example, the past riots in France are portrayed as either random response to police brutality or Islamic fanaticism. In reviewing France's immigration laws there are other concerns that likely drive real frustration with Islamic youth that spill over easily, and sadly become recruiting grounds for the fanatics.
I expect that this plays a part of the discussion in England. No finger pointing but bad laws drive bad behaviour. I see this almost daily.
Boo
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I know the difference, I just remove redundant punctuation and capitalisation for informal use :)
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I apologize. I now understand that you did not say it was any race causing anything. You just said that it has to be about race or at list you made sure you pointed out it was one specific race and that it is race related. How uninformed of me.
Do I need to bold your text or will you be able to find the above in your quote on your own? And btw, the few pictures you have seen could or could not represent all the rioters. You make the choice to assume that they do, but you really don;t know. If the pictures only had white people in them, would say it was race related?
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/katharinebirbalsingh/100099830/these-riots-were-about-race-why-ignore-the-fact/ (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/katharinebirbalsingh/100099830/these-riots-were-about-race-why-ignore-the-fact/)
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I know the difference, I just remove redundant punctuation and capitalisation for informal use :)
:neener:
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katherine, like you steve, is wrong. theres also basic factual errors in that article, disappointing for a broadsheet.
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katherine, like you steve, is wrong. theres also basic factual errors in that article, disappointing for a broadsheet.
I'm not wrong. I haven't given an opinion.
Educate me and give the factual errors in the article.
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http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/katharinebirbalsingh/100099830/these-riots-were-about-race-why-ignore-the-fact/ (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/katharinebirbalsingh/100099830/these-riots-were-about-race-why-ignore-the-fact/)
You are still on this? I have no clue what you are trying to say. I am sure some people think it was and some think it wasn't. I was only talking about what you posted/thought.
I am also sure that if the kid was white, then it would not have been about race. Whats the difference? Who cares what a reporter or blogger has to say? We all project our bias and views and so do they.
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I personally support any resisting if the cause is good, like in France previously. If its just thugs and lowlives getting a chance to loot then no. I don't know what my opinions are yet because i do not yet know the reason for rioting.
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See Rule #4
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I'm not wrong. I haven't given an opinion.
Educate me and give the factual errors in the article.
she describes the shooting in some detail, the evidence for which only the IPCC have access to at this moment. shes guessing but presents it as fact. [next sentence sent by pm to avoid rule violation.]
thing is, biggles, bat and myself seem to roughly agree what the problem is here and we all live in daily contact with these feral kids. rather than trying to make it what you want it to be about, maybe listen to those who are closest to it ...
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she describes the shooting in some detail, the evidence for which only the IPCC have access to at this moment. shes guessing but presents it as fact. [next sentence sent by pm to avoid rule violation.]
thing is, biggles, bat and myself seem to roughly agree what the problem is here and we all live in daily contact with these feral kids. rather than trying to make it what you want it to be about, maybe listen to those who are closest to it ...
Ahh, so you don't know if her statement is wrong or not.
I have been listening to sources close to it. Biggles and Bat haven't said much about this woman's claims. Others I spoken to, and other blogs I've read support my observation. I'm interested in hearing other views, but it seems like you and those who differ aren't. Look at what you said about Katherine.. She goes on to admit she doesn't know exactly what happened to Duggan, yet you claim she is wrong. Huh?
Answer this honestly: If Mr. Duggan was white, would there be rioting?
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London is safe because guns are outlawed.
Yay!
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bad news...hope all you poms are keeping safe....got any new TV's going cheap hahahah....but seriously
From what I have been seeing this is just crazy...the answer to where all this came from is very blurred...the initial problem had cause...but this continuation is just baffling....these youngsters aren't rioting because of the intial cause anymore...they are doing because hey...we can....there really is no rhyme or reason to it...why has it spread so far??? this is just an unruly bunch taking advantage of a situation.....I'm sure we will see in reports and interviews that the majority have absolutely no idea why they were doing it....and when I say no idea I'm meaning that there will be so many reasons and all perverted from the initial issue.....
The political undertones of this problem are far to over the heads of the many that are now joining the mobs just to destroy and steal.
that is just my feelings from the reports I see...but as I say....my source of information does have the tendency to hype things up at times.....
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answer this honestly: most of the rioters I saw at the Woodstock festival in '99 were white. so that must have been a race riot?
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answer this honestly: most of the rioters I saw at the Woodstock festival in '99 were white. so that must have been a race riot?
I guess you won't answer the question.
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you first :P
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you first :P
Heheh Honestly, I dind't know there were riots at Woodstock.... dang hippies.
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answer this honestly: most of the rioters I saw at the Woodstock festival in '99 were white. so that must have been a race riot?
race ri·ot
Noun: A public outbreak of violence due to racial antagonism
No. a race riot is a riot sparked by a racial action. Woodstock was just a bunch of angry crackers. 8)
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To be honest, who gives a flying 'F' if a convicted drug dealer was fatally shot by armed police. He was found with an illegal firearm, and probably killed because he pulled it out of his jeans and pointed it at the police.
The violence now has nothing to do with this though. It's just kids who want some free stuff and want to seem like hard men. The just want to show to the world that they don't care about the police. They think they'll get away with it but they won't. Lock them all in cages and hose them down for 24 hours as punishment, lets see how 'hard' they are after that.
What we as a nation need to do now is show these thugs that we will not put up with this despicable behaviour and that they WILL be punished. Was really good to see local communities out on the streets today cleaning up together and sticking around in the evening to prtoect shops and homes. Restores hope in the human condition...
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What is Flamewarriors?
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London is safe because guns are outlawed.
Yay!
Two sides to such a touchy statement. Yes, citizens could form an armed militia to protect themselves and their property. However, I dare you to ask any police officer or firefighter that got shot working in South Central during the Rodney King riots if they think guns would make the situation in London any safer or better. As many law abiding citizens that would have access to them, so would the anarchists and rioters.
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And steve, this isn't about race. Granted it's mainly black kids, but that's because they happen to be among the poorest with the worst family lives. Most probably never knew their dad or he's in prison or something. Elsewhere in the country the rioters are mainly white. It's a poverty thing, they have all grown up on these nasty violent estates surrounded by drugs and criminal activity. The only real solution is to entirely rethink how we house these people. Putting them all in an area together just breeds gang violence and trouble.
It is the poverty that has bred this awful culture. I hate to say it, but a lot of it is imported from american rap music, that a lot of these young guys see as inspiration. Sad times...
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are 'poor people' a race now?
i've seen white, brown and black people smashing and stealing
I don't believe so. I don't think 'poor people' are a race, but are all part of their own community and stick together. Kinda' like us here on the BBS.
Color don't matter when everyone's on the same level. 'broke'
Coogan
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London is safe because guns are outlawed.
Yay!
I wasn't going there but it's true. I just figured it would draw the Skuzzy baton...
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See Rule #4
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To be honest, who gives a flying 'F' if a convicted drug dealer was fatally shot by armed police. He was found with an illegal firearm, and probably killed because he pulled it out of his jeans and pointed it at the police.
The violence now has nothing to do with this though. It's just kids who want some free stuff and want to seem like hard men. The just want to show to the world that they don't care about the police. They think they'll get away with it but they won't. Lock them all in cages and hose them down for 24 hours as punishment, lets see how 'hard' they are after that.
What we as a nation need to do now is show these thugs that we will not put up with this despicable behaviour and that they WILL be punished. Was really good to see local communities out on the streets today cleaning up together and sticking around in the evening to prtoect shops and homes. Restores hope in the human condition...
I'm there. :aok It's about enforcement and setting the precedent. East LAnsing did it in the wake of some pretty bad disorder on campus and it worked.
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See Rules #4, #14
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answer this honestly: most of the rioters I saw at the Woodstock festival in '99 were white. so that must have been a race riot?
I think people are most closely associating the mess in London to the similarities of the one in South Central Los Angeles in '92, not a rock concert gone bad in unpstate new york in '99 that - long story short - is one of the leading precedents for why you can now always at the very least bring your own bottled water with you to any public venue that states "no outside food or drink allowed".
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See Rules #4, #14
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See Rule #4
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I just hope this new found "confidence" doesn't spread to the U.S. :( :pray
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It's the same problem here. The benefits or welfare as you lot call it has to stop or atleast be drastically changed. The culture of something for nothing has poisoned these kids.
i don't know about over there....but from what i recall my grand parents telling me, when welfare first started here, one had to work to earn it. one would report to the welfare office, they'd send them out to a work assignment, and they had to come back to the office to prove they were really at work. at the end of the week, they got their check.
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You think that the rioting is bad now, take away their welfare and get back to me. I agree that it needs to be addressed/changed/abolished, but your law abiding populace needs to be armed with something more than bows and arrows/swords first.
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Maybe they're rioting because they want more sugar for their tea?
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i don't know about over there....but from what i recall my grand parents telling me, when welfare first started here, one had to work to earn it. one would report to the welfare office, they'd send them out to a work assignment, and they had to come back to the office to prove they were really at work. at the end of the week, they got their check.
Sadly, no more. I would be very happy to give them benefits if they helped out in the community or did good for the country. They should change it so that to get your money you have to do atleast 12 hours of community service a week.
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Incoming rule #14
I never said anything about their views on gun rights, and you've twisted my words around to make a rather political statement, enjoy your vacation.
You really think more guns would of helped in that situation? And you call yourself a fireman? Go walk into the South Central firehouse here that was rebuilt from the ashes of its predecesor in '92, and share your opinions wile surrounded by the fung-shway arrangement of crash baricades, 12-foot high 2-foot thick brick walls topped with razor wire, and a solid steel with bulletproof-glass rolling garage door. I'm sure they'll also gladly invite you to ride along if they have a spare flak jacket to loan you, as mandated. See, even after the riots, the local gangbangers there have a twisted sence of showing gratitude for saving their buddies life the night before by shooting at the trucks and ambulances as they respond to assist a wounded or dyeing rival the next.
I didn't say just any police officers or firefighters in general, just those who were ordered to go into that hell on earth here in LA County during '92 and got shot doing their job and trying to help people.
Tell me Mr. Firefighter, what is your view and those of all your Texas comrads on mandatory bullet-proof vests and flak jackets ontop of the rest of the equipment you use to fight fires? If you're ever unfortunate enough to have to work somewhere that does, let me know what you think about the prospects of having to do your job in certain hi-risk areas now with an additional 20-40 pounds of bullet protection?
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Sadly, no more. I would be very happy to give them benefits if they helped out in the community or did good for the country. They should change it so that to get your money you have to do atleast 12 hours of community service a week.
same here. there are PLENTY of jobs that welfare recipients could do, in order to earn their checks. without taking away jobs from working people. it would benifit them, and society also, as they would learn a new skill. i wouldn't have any issues at all if it were done that way.
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I never said anything about their views on gun rights, and you've twisted my words around to make a rather political statement, enjoy your vacation.
You really think more guns would of helped in that situation? And you call yourself a fireman? Go walk into the South Central firehouse here that was rebuilt from the ashes of its predecesor in '92, and share your opinions wile surrounded by the fung-shway arrangement of crash baricades, 12-foot high 2-foot thick brick walls topped with razor wire, and a solid steel with bulletproof-glass rolling garage door. I'm sure they'll also gladly invite you to ride along if they have a spare flak jacket to loan you, as mandated. See, even after the riots, the local gangbangers there have a twisted sence of showing gratitude for saving their buddies life the night before by shooting at the trucks and ambulances as they respond to assist a wounded or dyeing rival the next.
I didn't say just any police officers or firefighters in general, just those who were ordered to go into that hell on earth here in LA County during '92 and got shot doing their job and trying to help people.
Tell me Mr. Firefighter, what is your view and those of all your Texas comrads on mandatory bullet-proof vests and flak jackets ontop of the rest of the equipment you use to fight fires? If you're ever unfortunate enough to have to work somewhere that does, let me know what you think about the prospects of having to do your job in certain hi-risk areas now with an additional 20-40 pounds of bullet protection?
it's a crying shame that they have to fear for their lives as they attempt to save others lives, and property.
that said, there are easy...albeit painful.....but easy solutions to that problem. said solution would constitute political suicide for those that approved it though.
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I never said anything about their views on gun rights, and you've twisted my words around to make a rather political statement, enjoy your vacation.
You really think more guns would of helped in that situation? And you call yourself a fireman? Go walk into the South Central firehouse here that was rebuilt from the ashes of its predecesor in '92, and share your opinions wile surrounded by the fung-shway arrangement of crash baricades, 12-foot high 2-foot thick brick walls topped with razor wire, and a solid steel with bulletproof-glass rolling garage door. I'm sure they'll also gladly invite you to ride along if they have a spare flak jacket to loan you, as mandated. See, even after the riots, the local gangbangers there have a twisted sence of showing gratitude for saving their buddies life the night before by shooting at the trucks and ambulances as they respond to assist a wounded or dyeing rival the next.
I didn't say just any police officers or firefighters in general, just those who were ordered to go into that hell on earth here in LA County during '92 and got shot doing their job and trying to help people.
Tell me Mr. Firefighter, what is your view and those of all your Texas comrads on mandatory bullet-proof vests and flak jackets ontop of the rest of the equipment you use to fight fires? If you're ever unfortunate enough to have to work somewhere that does, let me know what you think about the prospects of having to do your job in certain hi-risk areas now with an additional 20-40 pounds of bullet protection?
Nice. I like the way you rule 14'd me.
Your pompous ace can suck my polish sausage. Sure, you will get away with spewing it towards me and I won't be afforded the same.
I could care less about being on this board cause its a jerk fest for PC beaches.
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I bet if the thug had a gun he wouldn't have been shot...
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thing is, biggles, bat and myself seem to roughly agree what the problem is here and we all live in daily contact with these feral kids. rather than trying to make it what you want it to be about, maybe listen to those who are closest to it ...
I couldn't agree more with you here mate, although it's inevitable that humans will want to make mountains out of molehills. Perhaps if we keep on about it for long enough history will take on these ideas about a greater human rights cause to these riots. But for now it is plain to see that it's all about mindless destruction, bravado, testosterone and free LCD tvs.
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I've said from the beginning that last nights violence was just greedy chavs...
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Nice. I like the way you rule 14'd me.
Your pompous ace can suck my polish sausage. Sure, you will get away with spewing it towards me and I won't be afforded the same.
I could care less about being on this board cause its a jerk fest for PC beaches.
(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/562900/facepalm_medium.jpg)
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sigh...
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it's a crying shame that they have to fear for their lives as they attempt to save others lives, and property.
that said, there are easy...albeit painful.....but easy solutions to that problem. said solution would constitute political suicide for those that approved it though.
It lead to a lot of debate and talk about gun rights and control in our state, it's a quagmire for everyone that loves their 2nd amendment and for those that support the firefighters (and policemen) that just want to do their job without it even being more dangerous than it is. In a nutshell, and hopefuly avoiding any forum posting violations - I strongly support the 2nd amendment, but it grinds my gears that more often than not the only achievable solution is to litteraly burden another 20-40 pounds of equipment on the shoulders of a fully-loaded fireman (and they're usually packed down with equipment and up to their limit as is).
<snipped again, sorry, see below>
Nothing against your take on it mate, but I simply can't get dragged into the debate with you for the reason I mentioned, not becasue I want to cop out, but because I have to if I wish to avoid going on another (and even longer) vacation this time. This is Skuzzy's and HTC's house, and despite his high tolerance for other and many #14 violations to be found on these boards, he has made it clear that mine in particular often crosses too far over for even him, so until at least a few weeks have passed since my last vacation from the boards, I must exercise extreme restraint where I can and try to bite my tounge.
See my post above, I own and love shooting my own guns, but my opinion on this formed many years ago, and very strongly, when I went to go visit a family friend working at station 66 as a teenager and got invited along for a call as I usually did when I visited him working at a station. This wasn't my first call riding along, but it was the first time I ever had a second thought about hopping aboard for one as my friend passed me a spare flak jacket on the way to the back of the ladder truck cab.
Can't find any other pictures of the place surprisingly on the google, but here is a picture of the front of the rebuilt station 66 - it just screams "we're here to help you when you need us, come on in!" :D : (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2115/2262545962_ce64663c09_z.jpg)
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It lead to a lot of debate and talk about gun rights and control in our state, it's a quagmire for everyone that loves their 2nd amendment and for those that support the firefighters (and policemen) that just want to do their job without it even being more dangerous than it is. In a nutshell, and hopefuly avoiding any forum posting violations - I strongly support the 2nd amendment, but it grinds my gears that more often than not the only achievable solution is to litteraly burden another 20-40 pounds of equipment on the shoulders of a fully-loaded fireman (and they're usually packed down with equipment and up to their limit as is).
Yes, because in places where guns are outlawed, like the UK, there is no gun violence.
wait... Isn't that how this whole thing started?
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great, hijacked by another boring gun control debate ... start a new thread maybe?
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<snipped>
Again, a political debate on gun control is boiling to the top of this thread's current subject. I am aware of the reported details of the incident that kicked this powder keg off in London, and my personal opinion on gun rights differs from that enforced by the English government, however it is foolish and an obvious lacking of knowledge/proof/history that more guns in this situation would make it a hell on earth, more for those whose job it is to try and control and contain the situation than those who should rightfuly be punished for their behaviors.
I have said all I can, probabley too much already, so it is time for me to open the door and hit the silk as I bail outa this doomed thread.
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great, hijacked by another boring gun control debate ... start a new thread maybe?
Yes, lets get back where we left off, please do clarify your opinion on the similarities between the London Riots of '11 with those of Woodstock '99 and South Central LA '92.
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latest:
in London massive police presence and the veiled threat of rubber bullets seems to have persuaded most of the kids to stay at home.
in Bristol police have pretty much stomped out any trouble within a short time (they had some practice a month or 2 back so are better prepared than most forces.)
elsewhere the police still dont seem to have a handle on this yet, especially in the midlands. I hope the birmingham police get their act together - the 3rd test against india starts on friday!
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They need to enlist re-enactors and deploy them on the streets.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TmVIfgEqHas/TgScp1NgtuI/AAAAAAAABHE/EwOL1GyjX2M/s1600/pikemen.jpg)
:devil
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one thing I'm surprised by is no use of horses. Ive been charged by police horses once, it was very scary.
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See Rule #4
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Yes, lets get back where we left off, please do clarify your opinion on the similarities between the London Riots of '11 with those of Woodstock '99 and South Central LA '92.
not much to link them really. if I had to pick one of the 2, I'd say the riots here are closer to woodstock than LA, in the sense that its a bunch of spoilt kids who have had the kind of opportunities handed to them that people outside of the affluent west would crawl over cut glass to have, but still feel like they arent treated with the respect they deserve and are just taking the opportunity to destroy stuff just because they can get away with it.
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I never said anything about their views on gun rights, and you've twisted my words around to make a rather political statement, enjoy your vacation.
You really think more guns would of helped in that situation? And you call yourself a fireman? Go walk into the South Central firehouse here that was rebuilt from the ashes of its predecesor in '92, and share your opinions wile surrounded by the fung-shway arrangement of crash baricades, 12-foot high 2-foot thick brick walls topped with razor wire, and a solid steel with bulletproof-glass rolling garage door. I'm sure they'll also gladly invite you to ride along if they have a spare flak jacket to loan you, as mandated. See, even after the riots, the local gangbangers there have a twisted sence of showing gratitude for saving their buddies life the night before by shooting at the trucks and ambulances as they respond to assist a wounded or dyeing rival the next.
I didn't say just any police officers or firefighters in general, just those who were ordered to go into that hell on earth here in LA County during '92 and got shot doing their job and trying to help people.
Tell me Mr. Firefighter, what is your view and those of all your Texas comrads on mandatory bullet-proof vests and flak jackets ontop of the rest of the equipment you use to fight fires? If you're ever unfortunate enough to have to work somewhere that does, let me know what you think about the prospects of having to do your job in certain hi-risk areas now with an additional 20-40 pounds of bullet protection?
I do,
You do realize that criminals love gun control. They just use TWO hands.......
Enough said already, The more you arm law abiding citizens the less criminals have a chance.....
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one thing I'm surprised by is no use of horses. Ive been charged by police horses once, it was very scary.
There is a clip of some Police on horses think bbc or something aired it....
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Yes it's a sad situation, and there are social factors that have lead to this, but that is NO excuse. It is pure criminality just because these 14 year old kids think they can get away with it. I'm eagerly waiting for the army to be called in, and see some of these little butterers shot.
Yep. and to be honest, there are social reasons and excuses that can be made for every type of criminal, as to why they became the way they were. The worst of the worst scum in this world have all likely had awful upbringings that made them become that way. Past a certain point (age?) though, accountability takes over and it does not matter what your excuse is as to why you are screwed up, it's YOUR responsibility to live your life as a law abiding citizen with moral fortitude. It does not matter how hard your life has been, it's not an excuse for your actions. No Excuse.
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I just hope this new found "confidence" doesn't spread to the U.S. :( :pray
It already has. Philly's imposed a curfew because mobs of kids were going out and getting violent and trashing property.
Otherwise, I'm pleasantly surprised that we have more in common than in contrast here. Even Bab is a 2nd amendment supporter, even if he differs on the impact of legal ownership on the likelihood of criminal use.
See, guys like us would probably serve better by cordoning off council estates than by bickering with each other... but, ah, the concept of the self-policing state appears to have abdicated to the nannies-in-chief. They'd be horrified and call it vigilantism. That goes for me too - no time or energy to organize for a better social environment...
Cue Floyd's "Me and You", then recognize that the West is crumbling. We live in interesting times.
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It already has/ Philly's imposed a curfew because mobs of kids were going out and getting violent and trashing property.
They weren't just mobs of kids. It was more specific.
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They weren't just mobs of kids. It was more specific.
Apparently...
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It already has. Philly's imposed a curfew because mobs of kids were going out and getting violent and trashing property.
Otherwise, I'm pleasantly surprised that we have more in common than in contrast here. Even Bab is a 2nd amendment supporter, even if he differs on the impact of legal ownership on the likelihood of criminal use.
See, guys like us would probably serve better by cordoning off council estates than by bickering with each other... but, ah, the concept of the self-policing state appears to have abdicated to the nannies-in-chief. They'd be horrified and call it vigilantism. That goes for me too - no time or energy to organize for a better social environment...
Cue Floyd's "Me and You", then recognize that the West is crumbling. We live in interesting times.
Leave Pink Floyd's "Us & Them" out of it please. ;)
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Leave Pink Floyd's "Us & Them" out of it please. ;)
You know Gilmour's son was swinging from a WWII memorial during the tuition riots. :D
I guess the poor kid couldn't afford an education.
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp193/dmbear/charlie-gilmour.jpg)
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You know Gilmour's son was swinging from a WWII memorial during the tuition riots. :D
I guess the poor kid couldn't afford an education.
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp193/dmbear/charlie-gilmour.jpg)
That isn't David's kid. It's Polly's from her previous marriage. Charlie has always been a "renegade" though, sort of like his adopted Dad. During a spell of boredom in 1970 while in Arizona, David decided to drive a motorcycle into the hotel and parked it at his band mate's table. :aok
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I should know better than to mess with their most informed and cutest groupie. :D
:salute
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Sometimes me and Lady Liberty role play. She dresses up as capitolism and I spank her with a constitution
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Have you ever tried playing Mrs. Washington and the slave?
I like playing Mrs. Washington.
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It already has. Philly's imposed a curfew because mobs of kids were going out and getting violent and trashing property.
Otherwise, I'm pleasantly surprised that we have more in common than in contrast here. Even Bab is a 2nd amendment supporter, even if he differs on the impact of legal ownership on the likelihood of criminal use.
See, guys like us would probably serve better by cordoning off council estates than by bickering with each other... but, ah, the concept of the self-policing state appears to have abdicated to the nannies-in-chief. They'd be horrified and call it vigilantism. That goes for me too - no time or energy to organize for a better social environment...
Cue Floyd's "Me and You", then recognize that the West is crumbling. We live in interesting times.
these mobs of kids i don't think are related to the london riots.
read this.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/us/25mobs.html
two of my friends got their butts kicked last year by these mobs. they were usually somewhere around broad and south,.......one of said friends kicked 2 or 3 tulips before he had to get out of dodge.......but you see what i mean though.
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I should know better than to mess with their most informed and cutest groupie. :D
:salute
I'll second that after screwing up a simple title from probably the most famous album ever published.
Otherwise, Assi, I just wanted to say regarding that Philly thing, I'm interested in punishing criiminals. I don't care so much what they look like - just that they be punished to the maximum extent possible. I don't believe the state's going to do much good at fixing any cultures; will probably just make it worse. Civilizations have order and provide a penal system for miscreants. Without that, we have anarcho-tyranny.
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these mobs of kids i don't think are related to the london riots.
Not directly, no. However, consider that, here in the US, similar incidents will break out every time there's a plausible excuse. Look at Katrina as another example. In Britain the perps may live in the council estates, here, the projects...
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I should know better than to mess with their most informed and cutest groupie. :D
:salute
All good. :rock
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See Rule #5
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£10 says that post will be hit with a rule #14 too ...
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Skuzzy's autocratic in his judgments. I don't pretend to understand. I just tread carefully. That someone else might feel singled out actually gives me more faith that he's evenly applying some rules there.
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£10 says that post will be hit with a rule #14 too ...
could be :(
or it could be that the mod just hasn't got round to reading the rest of the waffle in this thread :x
anyway I do understand the need for moderation, it just means that this particular forum isn't the ideal venue for this kind of discussion...I'll be off now :bolt: :D
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update:
the first convictions are being processed this morning. almost all are guilty pleas and are being referred to crown court for sentencing (as in theory they can apply heavier sentences than the magistrates courts).
the very first sentence given out this morning is worth looking at in some detail. a 19yr old student, pleaded guilty to burglary of 2x T-shirts from a shop, total value ~£70. his sentence - 1 day in prison and a fine. since he's already spent a day inside, hes been released.
I checked out the sentencing guidelines for Burglary in a building other than a dwelling, the starting point is a Community order, the range is Fine -> 26 weeks custody.
this here is a large part of the problem which caused these riots. the maximum sentence for the crime he committed and pleaded guilty to is 26 weeks in jail. despite everyone saying that the consequences for these rioters will be "severe", this guy has been given 1 day in jail.
where is the punishment?
where is the deterrent?
why wouldnt this guy just go out again this evening and do it again?
:bhead
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why wouldnt this guy just go out again this evening and do it again?
:bhead
Amswer: he will. A day in jail in exchange for the light joy of smashing glass and looting? Sounds like a bargain... Yeeeeehaw. I saw not too long ago that some punks got off for vandalizing a power station there because in court they constructed an argument that they were combatting global warming.
I think the new name for Britain might be "Juggalo Vacationland" since it appears to be a good place to indulge thuggish desires. The States aren't much better but at least here you've got to worry about the homeowner/shopowner, many of whom get punished if they defend their property.
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this is mostly youths doing this, right?
should i start in on how it's the parents? or should i leave that alone?
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this is mostly youths doing this, right?
should i start in on how it's the parents? or should i leave that alone?
a 31 year old teacher is one of those pleading guilty today ... but yeah, mostly young 'uns
:uhoh :bolt:
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a 31 year old teacher is one of those pleading guilty today ... but yeah, mostly young 'uns
:uhoh :bolt:
a teacher was in on this crap???? a member of a community that kids look up to??? i hope they throw the book at him. literally.
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hes been referred to crown court for sentencing, cant remember the exact charge but iirc the max tarif for his crime together with the conspiracy/riot aspect that the crown court can apply is 10 years ...
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update:
the first convictions are being processed this morning. almost all are guilty pleas and are being referred to crown court for sentencing (as in theory they can apply heavier sentences than the magistrates courts).
the very first sentence given out this morning is worth looking at in some detail. a 19yr old student, pleaded guilty to burglary of 2x T-shirts from a shop, total value ~£70. his sentence - 1 day in prison and a fine. since he's already spent a day inside, hes been released.
I checked out the sentencing guidelines for Burglary in a building other than a dwelling, the starting point is a Community order, the range is Fine -> 26 weeks custody.
this here is a large part of the problem which caused these riots. the maximum sentence for the crime he committed and pleaded guilty to is 26 weeks in jail. despite everyone saying that the consequences for these rioters will be "severe", this guy has been given 1 day in jail.
where is the punishment?
where is the deterrent?
why wouldnt this guy just go out again this evening and do it again?
:bhead
So much for the folks who said they would be dealt with severely. lol sad sad sad
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hes been referred to crown court for sentencing, cant remember the exact charge but iirc the max tarif for his crime together with the conspiracy/riot aspect that the crown court can apply is 10 years ...
i'm gonna sound bad for saying this....but the guy should get the maximum. there is no excuse for someone of that age, and position in life to act this way. none.
perhaps if they toss the book at one or two like that, it may serve as a rude awakening to act ones age, rather than ones shoe size.
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Answer this honestly: If Mr. Duggan was white, would there be rioting?
Honest answer: I don't know if they would in England. I can tell you for sure the boy would have been white in Greece and white people would have been rioting. What does that do to your theory? There is no need to continue this conversation. I think we both know where you stand.
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Heres one of the riots Ive been in the middle of. For the record this was shot at a tavern district where a bunch of rich white kids went to watch a championship basketball game. When the home team won all heck broke loose. I was at another tavern district where myself and my co-workers were fighting for our lives against another bunch of drunken rich white kids who thought beating the Police would be a perk to destroying property and acting a fool. In other areas of the city the streets were fired and there was much looting. All this over a stupid basketball championship, of which we had to endure 5 more of the things.
I knew some of the guys on Rush street. They said it was a miracle they made it out alive. But the point is you put a mob out there fueled by youth, drugs, booze, anominity, and "any" reason to riot and watch out. Race doesnt really matter. This is why I take summer vacations. http://youtu.be/G_pAC0gLCXc http://youtu.be/s6XfTVCHoDw
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if all these rioters want to vent some frustration, then lets put a rifle in their hands and drop them off in Afghanistan for a few months. That will cool them off.
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I like that, although I wouldnt give them the rifle.
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if all these rioters want to vent some frustration, then lets put a rifle in their hands and drop them off in Afghanistan for a few months. That will cool them off.
Sure, they'd fit right in with military law and discipline. ;) Besides they dont have the guts or honor to stand with fellow soldiers and fight other soldiers. They'd run and start crying for their mommies.
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update:
more sentences announced in the 10-20 week range. since we keep getting told short sentences dont really do anything, still way too low imo.
several local councils have stated that anyone identified as being involved in the rioting will be evicted from their social housing. thats more like it :aok
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We had some looters during our recent earthquakes down in Chch. Uncoordinated lot, they kept walking into doors while in custody. Odd that.
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yeah theres a rioter in manchester tripped over quite badly in the street last night. for about 10mins. luckily there were some police around to pick him back up and send him on his way :aok
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We had some looters during our recent earthquakes down in Chch. Uncoordinated lot, they kept walking into doors while in custody. Odd that.
How careless of them. I've heard of cases in S. America in which agitators accidentally stepped off of airplanes...
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Sure, they'd fit right in with military law and discipline. ;) Besides they dont have the guts or honor to stand with fellow soldiers and fight other soldiers. They'd run and start crying for their mommies.
Why would they need to fight? I'd use them to clear minefields.
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Why would they need to fight? I'd use them to clear minefields.
Oh what a sadistic thought that put in my head - all these young men and women across europe demanding jobs and some income, or recent student graduates looking for a means to payoff student loans/debt or earn a scolarship. :devil
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I'm sure this has already been thoroughly covered, but here is what I heard on The Huckabee Report this morning:
http://rope.zhuc.fimc.net/player/player.html?url=http://podloc.andomedia.com/dloadTrack.mp3?prm=9628xhttp://podfuse-dl.andomedia.com/800185/podfuse-origin.andomedia.com/citadel_origin/pods/Huckabee/HuckabeeAM_08_10_2011.mp3
(He keeps it pretty non-political from my pov)
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And steve, this isn't about race. Granted it's mainly black kids, but that's because they happen to be among the poorest with the worst family lives. Most probably never knew their dad or he's in prison or something. Elsewhere in the country the rioters are mainly white. It's a poverty thing, they have all grown up on these nasty violent estates surrounded by drugs and criminal activity. The only real solution is to entirely rethink how we house these people. Putting them all in an area together just breeds gang violence and trouble.
It is the poverty that has bred this awful culture. I hate to say it, but a lot of it is imported from american rap music, that a lot of these young guys see as inspiration. Sad times...
LMAO! I remember my grandfather saying the same thing about British music during the Peace, Love and Dope movement in the '60's. :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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LMAO! I remember my grandfather saying the same thing about British music during the Peace, Love and Dope movement in the '60's. :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
ya know? i missed the post you quoted, and can't find it.....but i'd almost agree on the rap music thing. i don't truly think rap can even be considered music, and it is truly the only form of "music" that i cannot listen to. and yes.....i do tend to feel violent tendencies when i hear it. generally towards the schmuck that has it blasting in his car.........
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Keep in mind, it's a consistent theme every generation. Big Band was much too racey for oldtimers in the 40's. It was for young people.
Rock and roll, same.
Hip hop, same.
In 40 years, there will be a bunch of old fogies sitting around saying "I remember when Black Eyed Peas played GOOD music, not this Muslim crap they got on the radio these days!"
:old:
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Keep in mind, it's a consistent theme every generation. Big Band was much too racey for oldtimers in the 40's. It was for young people.
Rock and roll, same.
Hip hop, same.
In 40 years, there will be a bunch of old fogies sitting around saying "I remember when Black Eyed Peas played GOOD music, not this Muslim crap they got on the radio these days!"
:old:
uummm...no/......black eyed peas will be forgotten long before that.
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update:
looks like the magistrates courts arent messing around now, they are processing ~100 defendants/day at the moment in london alone, and practically all of them are being denied bail, referred to crown court and sent back to their cells to stay on remand.
basically this means that anyone charged during the riots will be imprisoned if found guilty. given the mood of the courts, parliament and the people I'd expect some pretty lengthy sentences to be handed out in crown court.
the police are also busy carrying out raids all over london arresting people who thought they could get away with it because of the anonymity of the crowd. CCTV images and communities finally willing to work with the police rather than obstruct them means they wont get away with it.
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update:
looks like the magistrates courts arent messing around now, they are processing ~100 defendants/day at the moment in london alone, and practically all of them are being denied bail, referred to crown court and sent back to their cells to stay on remand.
basically this means that anyone charged during the riots will be imprisoned if found guilty. given the mood of the courts, parliament and the people I'd expect some pretty lengthy sentences to be handed out in crown court.
the police are also busy carrying out raids all over london arresting people who thought they could get away with it because of the anonymity of the crowd. CCTV images and communities finally willing to work with the police rather than obstruct them means they wont get away with it.
:aok good
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update:
looks like the magistrates courts arent messing around now, they are processing ~100 defendants/day at the moment in london alone, and practically all of them are being denied bail, referred to crown court and sent back to their cells to stay on remand.
basically this means that anyone charged during the riots will be imprisoned if found guilty. given the mood of the courts, parliament and the people I'd expect some pretty lengthy sentences to be handed out in crown court.
the police are also busy carrying out raids all over london arresting people who thought they could get away with it because of the anonymity of the crowd. CCTV images and communities finally willing to work with the police rather than obstruct them means they wont get away with it.
i shouldn't be......but i'm kinda shocked that they were too stupid to wear some sort of masks.........
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many were, but they've been identified by their family/neighbours etc. by their clothing, raided, and stolen goods found. remember that almost all the stock taken was for resale, so still in its packaging with security tags etc. these are not master criminals ...
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #14
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many were, but they've been identified by their family/neighbours etc. by their clothing, raided, and stolen goods found. remember that almost all the stock taken was for resale, so still in its packaging with security tags etc. these are not master criminals ...
well....on that note.......big props to those that did turn them in. hopefully it's not too late for the younger ones to learn a lesson.....it might be a tough lesson, but often those are the best learned ones. :aok
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See Rule #4
uh oh......i sense a disturbance in the force........... :noid
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many were, but they've been identified by their family/neighbours etc. by their clothing, raided, and stolen goods found. remember that almost all the stock taken was for resale, so still in its packaging with security tags etc. these are not master criminals ...
Rioters/looters in general aren't usually the smartest breed of human, a few in past incidents have been caught well afterwards because they registered the waranty or other such idiotic things with merchandise that can be tracked via serial numbers.
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Rioters/looters in general aren't usually the smartest breed of human, a few in past incidents have been caught well afterwards because they registered the waranty or other such idiotic things with merchandise that can be tracked via serial numbers.
Don't forget about facebook!
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I read somewhere that when an entire block of stores was looted then burned, one store was untouched by the looters... a book store. :lol
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I read somewhere that when an entire block of stores was looted then burned, one store was untouched by the looters... a book store. :lol
The fools, in ten years they will be rare and prized posessions, while their decade-old electronics will be worth only scrap! :old:
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The fools, in ten years they will be rare and prized posessions, while their decade-old electronics will be worth only scrap! :old:
:rofl I would have been the one who looted the book store, I could do less with the electronics ruining my hearing :old:
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I heard the Irish are now getting into it, Paddy smashed his monitor trying to loot ebay ...... :devil
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:rofl
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I heard the Irish are now getting into it, Paddy smashed his monitor trying to loot ebay ...... :devil
:rofl :rofl
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I heard the Irish are now getting into it, Paddy smashed his monitor trying to loot ebay ...... :devil
As a man of Anglo-Irish ancestry, I think it safe to say alcohol might be involved.
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Thank you Detroit for sending us your secret weapon to stop the riots in London.
(http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/tumblr_lpoah9lGGl1r1qajlo1_500.png)
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See Rule #4
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the disturbance in the force is growing........
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See Rule #2
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This was interesting, a link from the other day:
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2011/08/sales-nightsticks-soar-7000-amazon-uk/41034/
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(http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/9FA41733-8BB6-4507-9980-56CCE8946620/0/Apache1.jpg)
I think the rotorheads need a work out with that 20mm on the nose.. just saying...