Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: HawkerMKII on February 04, 2012, 06:34:13 AM
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For any side
(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9495/ahss30.png)
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++ :aok :old: :salute
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I don't get the joke.
:headscratch:
wrongway
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I don't get the joke.
:headscratch:
wrongway
It's funny when Bish don't have enough people to horde :D
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It's funny when Bish don't have enough people to horde :D
Since the bish are the only side that horde..... :rolleyes:
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Finally the scotch bribes are paying off! :devil :banana: :cheers:
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Huh? :headscratch:
(http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs3/1246797_o.gif)
:lol
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Since the bish are the only side that horde..... :rolleyes:
oh grow up! If the little :D at the end didn't clue you in, it was a joke.
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(http://www.waynebesen.com/uploaded_images/whine-700547.jpg)
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Maybe David Wales has a better idea on ENY :D
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Maybe David Wales has a better idea on ENY :D
Don't say it three times or he may appear! :uhoh
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oh grow up! If the little :D at the end didn't clue you in, it was a joke.
Dont worry, I understood your intentions. Its just that 99% of your verbal diahrea tends to get annoying.
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It's funny when Bish don't have enough people to horde :D
and what does this thread have to do with a horde............nothing..... eny and side balancing is outdated and a joke. Either put back 1 hour side switch or make eny not on a % but how many players a side has.
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Dont worry, I understood your intentions. Its just that 99% of your verbal diahrea tends to get annoying.
You sure you didn't read, DavidWales' post? After reading that, it would be hard to get annoyed by anything else...other than people calling him hope for a new generation... I wish they had a vomiting smiley...
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Since the bish are the only side that horde..... :rolleyes:
ya right :headscratch: when the nits or rooks horde its called
team work :headscratch:
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id like to see eny based on "inflight" #s
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id like to see eny based on "inflight" #s
That would be very exploitable by the mishun hordes.
My preference would be for it to kick in earlier and/or have a steeper slope.
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My preference would be for it to kick in earlier and/or have a steeper slope.
That, combined with the old 1 hour switch timer would encourage side balancing.
If the current 12 hour rule remains, the only way to balance the sides is for people on the high side to log off for 12 hours. The downside of actual balanced sides would be the large number of "win teh warz!" folks leaving the game. That's my guess as to why things are as they are - customer $.
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That, combined with the old 1 hour switch timer would encourage side balancing.
If the current 12 hour rule remains, the only way to balance the sides is for people on the high side to log off for 12 hours. The downside of actual balanced sides would be the large number of "win teh warz!" folks leaving the game. That's my guess as to why things are as they are - customer $.
I don't understand how the the 12 hour rule keeps people from switching to the low numbered side when they log on or when the numbers become unbalanced.
You can switch once. If the numbers change, you're stuck. Realistically, no one switches to balance sides.
The 12 hour side switching keeps people from switching back in a play session if they have already switched.
I'd like to see a shorter time to switch sides as well but I don't see the current time as a deterrent to switching other than the above statement.
wrongway
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There is merit to the ENY system, but I believe it could go a lot further. I dont think the 12 hour rule is a big thing, the lack of a dynamic ENY scale is.
First, I think HTC needs to seriously re-evaluate the current scale head to toe. There are a lot of aircraft with ENY and OBJ scores that do not fall in line with the ability of the plane (the Ju88 earns FEWER bomber perks than a B17??? yeah, check it out). The P51D has proved to be the horde monkey's plane of choice, which other aircraft can do what the P51D can do as well as it can do it? In short, I believe HTC needs to lower some aircraft to less than 5 ENY (P51D, Spit16, and a few others), and some need a reduction (La7, F4U-1A, and a few others).
Second, I think HTC needs to turn the dial up a bit on the ENY inhibitor. Meaning, make the ENY limiter kick in sooner and make it ramp up that much faster. MAKE the ENY a factor, not an after-thought. It is too easy to just hop in to the top tier planes.
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Dont worry, I understood your intentions. Its just that 99% of your verbal diahrea tends to get annoying.
There is an "ignore" function, I just used it, Bye.
That would be very exploitable by the mishun hordes.
My preference would be for it to kick in earlier and/or have a steeper slope.
agreed, the problem is that HTC avoids "limiting" a player too much. Thats why hitting Depots doesn't hurt as much as it could, nor taking fuel down to 25% is allowed any more. They have a fine line to walk for playability, and chasing away customers.
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The problem is when you have a situation like this. Then the two smaller countries gang the one larger. In this case it would be Bish and knits against rooks.
Then can you have a situation where the RL situation they still are outnumbered by a full third yet still have to suffer the effect of ENY because technically they have the numbers.
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and what does this thread have to do with a horde............nothing..... eny and side balancing is outdated and a joke. Either put back 1 hour side switch or make eny not on a % but how many players a side has.
how is the 1 hr switch gonna help side balancing. or you mean that all the players in rook/knights had just switched and couldnt switch back to bishops and the 12 hour limit is at fault :rofl.
semp
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Drediock, how is that any worse than the small country getting ganged by the two big contries, and not having ENY help them?
The answer is: its not, its just different.
I would think it would be less likely to happen, as well, which means that even if a revised system with a more dynamic ENY would still be better than what we have now.
IMO, it needs to be exponential in how harsh it is, and take effect much, much, MUCH earlier.
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There is an "ignore" function, I just used it, Bye.
agreed, the problem is that HTC avoids "limiting" a player too much. Thats why hitting Depots doesn't hurt as much as it could, nor taking fuel down to 25% is allowed any more. They have a fine line to walk for playability, and chasing away customers.
Wow, now my feelings are really hurt.... but yet again you help prove my point.
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Wow, now my feelings are really hurt.... but yet again you help prove my point.
what was your point?
semp
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There is merit to the ENY system, but I believe it could go a lot further. I dont think the 12 hour rule is a big thing, the lack of a dynamic ENY scale is.
First, I think HTC needs to seriously re-evaluate the current scale head to toe. There are a lot of aircraft with ENY and OBJ scores that do not fall in line with the ability of the plane (the Ju88 earns FEWER bomber perks than a B17??? yeah, check it out). The P51D has proved to be the horde monkey's plane of choice, which other aircraft can do what the P51D can do as well as it can do it? In short, I believe HTC needs to lower some aircraft to less than 5 ENY (P51D, Spit16, and a few others), and some need a reduction (La7, F4U-1A, and a few others).
Second, I think HTC needs to turn the dial up a bit on the ENY inhibitor. Meaning, make the ENY limiter kick in sooner and make it ramp up that much faster. MAKE the ENY a factor, not an after-thought. It is too easy to just hop in to the top tier planes.
Most of the late war Allied stuff, or even midwar Typhoon has much lower ENY than the late war German iron does.
You propose to make this even more rediculous? Or do you finally admit that German aircraft are that inferior? :devil
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Placing too many restrictions on player choices is a bad thing.
Hordes happen. If one wants to stop hordes, up counter hordes. After the first couple of bases, the pattern emerges. Get some alt in your favorite P-51 or Corsair killer and have fun.
ENY is not that painful. There are many planes in the 20-30 range that are great.
One last thing: is it irony to up into a horde of 30 or so, and get killed by one of "The Few?" :bolt:
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and what does this thread have to do with a horde............nothing..... eny and side balancing is outdated and a joke. Either put back 1 hour side switch or make eny not on a % but how many players a side has.
+1
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Placing too many restrictions on player choices is a bad thing.
Hordes happen. If one wants to stop hordes, up counter hordes. After the first couple of bases, the pattern emerges. Get some alt in your favorite P-51 or Corsair killer and have fun.
ENY is not that painful. There are many planes in the 20-30 range that are great.
One last thing: is it irony to up into a horde of 30 or so, and get killed by one of "The Few?" :bolt:
That is a good point regarding the "restricting player choices", but I would be in line fully if we only has 20 aircraft. If the ENY goes to 6 and the P51D is not available, there are a whole host of aircraft that can do the nearly the same thing but it is obvious the P51D does it the easiest.
I agree %100: the ENY is not painful in the least bit. I think it is sad that people restrict themselves to a few of the crutch planes and nothing else, there is a whole list of very capable aircraft, albeit a slightly higher challenge to fly. There is some player named hymen that ups in nothing but the Spit16, how narrow can one be? That would be like eating nothing but potatoes all you life.
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Drediock, how is that any worse than the small country getting ganged by the two big contries, and not having ENY help them?
The answer is: its not, its just different.
I would think it would be less likely to happen, as well, which means that even if a revised system with a more dynamic ENY would still be better than what we have now.
IMO, it needs to be exponential in how harsh it is, and take effect much, much, MUCH earlier.
I personally would favor a base or zone based eny system. My feeling is no base IRL would be able to support an unlimited amount of aircraft being in the air at once. That aspect of realism would help spread out any fight over a wider front or take longer for a hording effect to come together in one place thus making it easier to defend against or at lest make it more complicated to organize the horde. I would also favor a system where the type of ord available would be dependent on the size of the base. This would make larger bases somewhat more important to both attack and defend.
For me personally I couldnt care less what ENY was. For me it just means I fly and kill you in something else.
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I'm of the same view point Drediock. Of course, I few aircraft that were rarely limited by ENY. But even when I fly the P-51, a B or D was all the same.
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Never saw the reason for ENY............. the side with the lower numbers loses.............. end of!
Unless the side most organised wins first...........
I hate stalemates......
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replace eny with free wine gum vouchers :salute
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Never saw the reason for ENY............. the side with the lower numbers loses.............. end of!
Unless the side most organised wins first...........
I hate stalemates......
the reason for eny is to make some people think they're cooler than others because they fly a "disadvantaged" airplane. I find some really high eny airplanes are easier to get kills in than some of the lower eny i.e. f4f. really good airplane, lots of guns, really nice turner, not the fastest but not a zero either and it has a high eny, or the c205, nothing wrong with this plane.
semp
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replace eny with free wine gum vouchers :salute
this is your worst idea yet! :furious
why don't you read some of the BBS guidelines before you make these idiotic suggestions! :old: this kind of drivel does not belong on the forums!!1! :furious :furious :furious
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Don't say it three times or he may appear! :uhoh
Unless he's taking a little vacation from the boards :pray
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I have always thought that a single ENY value for a plane does not make sense. Take the P51 for example, should the 4 gun package with no bombs or rockets have the same ENY as one fully loaded with everything? If changed, the P51 would not be able to carry 1000 lb bombs past a certain ENY value. The 500 lb bombs might be restricted at a higher value. It would be limited to no bombs at some ENY, but still available otherwise, etc. Rockets, drop tanks, fuel level, gun package could all be factored in somehow.
This system could allow even a small ENY to make an impact without preventing access to the popular planes, at least in some configuration. Not sure how practical this would be to implement, but would allow for more options than the current system.
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I have always thought that a single ENY value for a plane does not make sense. Take the P51 for example, should the 4 gun package with no bombs or rockets have the same ENY as one fully loaded with everything? If changed, the P51 would not be able to carry 1000 lb bombs past a certain ENY value. The 500 lb bombs might be restricted at a higher value. It would be limited to no bombs at some ENY, but still available otherwise, etc. Rockets, drop tanks, fuel level, gun package could all be factored in somehow.
This system could allow even a small ENY to make an impact without preventing access to the popular planes, at least in some configuration. Not sure how practical this would be to implement, but would allow for more options than the current system.
You might be on to something interesting. Maybe even factor in drop tanks and fuel loads. So a Spit16 with 25 or 50% fuel might be a higher ENY value then the same Spixteen with 100% fuel. That Spixteen with 25% fuel would still be useful for defense, but not so useful for attacking.
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It's funny when Bish don't have enough people to horde :D
+10 & a
(http://image.wetpaint.com/image/1/HhKyCwHdtOazjrZu7BSkjw4973/GW160H105)
for the Bish
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See rule #4
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My terrible thoughts are as follows.
If your country has overwhelming numbers, why are you complaining about eny restrictions to begin with?
a 12hr limit to switch makes it all but impossible to balance the game, but I don't ever remembering it doing that when it was one hour, so I suspect a different reason.
ENY is not about how effective or awesome a plane is, it is about how popular it is, so that us as players get to see and combat a wide variety of aircraft.
That being said, it does directly correlate in other ways to how usefull an aircraft is, thus the eny limit when your country has overwhelming numbers.
The other side of this which seems somewhat ignored is that the other side stands to gain alot more perks, which can obviously be used towards the lowest eny aircraft and GV's
And there is not one instance of one country always having the numbers, not one.
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Yeah have 20 more players and eny is 15....have 60 more eny ZERO!!!!! System works well.............. :x :x :x :x :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl Time for a change!
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7305/ahss35.png)
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Yeah have 20 more players and eny is 15....have 60 more eny ZERO!!!!! System works well.............. :x :x :x :x :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl Time for a change!
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7305/ahss35.png)
Are you unclear on the concept of percentages? It certainly seems so.
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I don't think he understands what he is reading in that pic.
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Are you unclear on the concept of percentages? It certainly seems so.
Hey, if ya can't club someone with cold, hard facts, what can you club them with? :D
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Are you unclear on the concept of percentages? It certainly seems so.
Yes i do, and the PERCENTAGE system is outdated......should be based on number of players!
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Yes i do, and the PERCENTAGE system is outdated......should be based on number of players!
Why?
What is it based upon, now?
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Yes i do, and the PERCENTAGE system is outdated......should be based on number of players!
No, it shouldn't. Stop whining.
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Yes i do, and the PERCENTAGE system is outdated......should be based on number of players!
What percentage of it is out of date?
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What percentage of it is out of date?
Are we trying to change the percentage system to make per-cent have a different meaning than 1 out of 100?
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No, it shouldn't. Stop whining.
:rolleyes:
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What percentage of it is out of date?
Here is the shortcoming of a percentage based ENY:
When overall numbers are low, ENY kicks in very early because of the percentage imballance.
When there are many players in the arena ENY is under applied, again because it takes a large imballance in terms of actual number of players to trigger ENY.
Example would be with low numbers you may have a side with +10 players and and eny of 10-15.. 10 players spread over the map, or even concentrated in 2 or 3 places is virtually no advantage, hence no need for the penalty.
Contrast that when there are 4-5 hundred players on, and the worst case senerio being when only 1 of the 3 countries is at a numbers disadvantage. This ascerbates the shortcomings of the % based system, because now you have 2 countries with larger percentages, however the percent differential between the high countries and the low is diluted by the fact that 2 have high numbers.. In this situation you can have a 60+ player differential and <5 eny penalty.. 60 players is a massive advantage and nearly always leads to a roll.
In the past the ease of switching sides back and forth lead many players to country hop in search of favoriable perk ride cost and perk point accumulation, as well as the opportunity to choose a fight if it wasn't on his current country's front. The 12 hour rule effectivly ended this, which was a very useful tool in number balancing.(Not that I want putz-a-war busting missions on an hourly basis mind you)
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So your suggesting that when the numbers are low that everyone spreads out so the side are really more even than it looks right?
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Just make eny apply only to people in flight. The people sitting AFK or what not are the problems for ENY. It is their right tho to sit there, like it or not, but HTC should also take this more into consideration IMO.
-OR-
Attach a 'timer' to anyone in the tower. If they don't input some sort of command in a set amount of time, say 5 minutes, they no longer count for ENY purposes until they are active, which would immediately enter them back into the ENY equation.
If this is a repeat idea, sorry, I'm too buzzed to read the small nonsense posts and skipped to the end.
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Just make eny apply only to people in flight. The people sitting AFK or what not are the problems for ENY. It is their right tho to sit there, like it or not, but HTC should also take this more into consideration IMO.
Problem with that is that large missions would exempt, or at least limit, the effect of ENY on them.
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If you think about this logically you can see that there is an area where the current ENY/Balancing system has a potential weakness.
First, I am starting with a few logical assumptions.
1.) The current ENY/Balance system is intended to hinder the numerically superior side from just numerically overwhelming each base capture.
2.) The current ENY/Balance system applies the same percentage calculation to the player population all the time (from a minimum of 70 players to a maximum of 600 players).
3.) With the current base capture system, the work (i.e. what you need to do in order to capture a base) is static.
Since the work required to capture a base is static, the chosen percentage calculation must work over a wide range of player population. It is my personal belief that an attacking force of more than 15 players constitutes an overwhelming force that is detrimental to game play. I'm sure this number can be argued and if there is sufficient defense then the number could even be significantly higher, but 15 vs. 3 or 4 defenders is an overwhelming attack in most cases.
If you look at the images the OP provided, you can see that with the current system as the total number of players in the arena goes up, the potential for numerically unbalanced attacks also increases. And that is a genuine weakness of the current ENY/Balance system.
There are a few different options for addressing this issue, but I want to get the core of the problem discussed first.
:salute Baumer
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Yeah have 20 more players and eny is 15....have 60 more eny ZERO!!!!! System works well.............. :x :x :x :x :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl Time for a change!
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7305/ahss35.png)
You're right, the Rooks should be at least 12-14. :aok
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So your suggesting that when the numbers are low that everyone spreads out so the side are really more even than it looks right?
I'm saying that a 60 player advantage is greater than a 10 player advantage regardless of percentages. If 40% of the surpluss decided to concentrate their force, then you are talking about 4 out of 10 players, or 24 out of 60. 4 players is nothing, 24 is a "horde" by any horde whiner definition. So imbedded in the 60 player advantage you very frequently have a overwhelming cohesive force.
I'm not arguing for a mechanism to ballance the players per side (but reverting to the 1 hour rule would be a help), just if you are going to have ENY at all make it impactful, otherwise do away with it..
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I personally would rather see the whole ENY limiting system out the door. Each plane and GV should still have an ENY for perk reasons, but make it so the ENY never limits what you can up. Or let the GV's be exempt from it. Nothing more frustrating than being in a big GV battle and suddenly you can't even up an M4 because of the ENY. The ENY is something I've hated from the very beginning.
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Seriously though. ENY should be based on what percentage of the total players each side has.
For instance: If all three sides had 100 players the percentage per side would be 33 percent.
(Yes I know .33333333 blah blah. but let's just round it to .333)
100 = .333
100 = .333
100 = .333
Now, using the image above let's adjust ENY based on total percantages. That way, all sides are adjusted according to their strength in numbers.
The sides above represent the following percentages:
153 = .268 So, .268 is less than the even sides .333 by .065 (-6.5 percent).
205 = .359 So, .359 is more than the even sides .333 by .026 (+2.6 percent).
213 = .373 So, .373 is more than the even sides .333 by .040 (+4.0 percent).
So why not have the perk points and cost points adjusted by that type of pecentage both + and - values?
Now, I am sure that something like this is already the formula for the perk points awarded and the cost of perked acft.
But, why not have the acft availability in the hanger affected like this?
Have all acft graded on a curve with the Earliest acft graded at a "1" and the latest (most perked) acft graded at "99" (we leave the last 1 percent out of the eq for giggles to let sides that are only very slightly higher still use all planes). I am sure there is a hierarchy list somewhere on the relative values of the planes.
Fill in all planes between the "1" and "99" with the rest using decimal values when there are more than 99 acft and a plane is evaluated to be between two whole numbers.
Once you have a 1-99 list the percentages are once again plugged in. The side with the +4.0 percent cannot fly a plane that has a value of 95 or less. Simple as that. Currently the eny has to go down to what 5 ?? before a side is penalized an availability. Look at the numbers and the ENY above. The 4 percent penalty would not hurt the high side vs the middle side that much because they would also be suffering their own penalty of not being able to fly planes affected by their 2.6 percent ENY.
All three sides are affected by their actual numbers both good and bad. The middle guy doesn't get a free pass if they have many more than the low side, and their existance in the middle doesn't skew the high side to not appear to be that much higher.
Thoughts?
Chauncy
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I based my ENY calculations on the thought that when all sides are even. When one side makes a mission. That side is taking the calculated risk that other bases on their side will not be attacked and taken due to the reduced manpower spread throughout the front while those pilots are in the mission.
But when a side has 70 more player (yes, this has been happening a lot lately) They can have almost three full missions (call them hordes if you want) runnign taking bases while the non-extra players maintain the even manpower numbers throughout the rest of the front.
I have nothing against missions or so-called hordes when the sides are even. Like I said. The side running the mission is taking a calculated risk of being attacked somewhere else while they are running their attack.
60 or 70 extra players on a side is simply overwhelming and makes you feel like you are playing chess against somebody that has two extra rows of pawns to just waste on you.
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More targets
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Problem with that is that large missions would exempt, or at least limit, the effect of ENY on them.
If you're in a mission, I'd rate that as active. If the mission leaves and 5 mins later you still haven't clicked that little button to launch.. now you're inactive, button or no.
Like I said, I was really buzzed and the details were hard to make real :D
EDIT: Also if ENY at time of mission creation is say.. 6, then the designer puts in alot of Niki's and what not (think niki eny is 8 now) and wait for 7 minutes for the fill-up.. then at the launch of the mission, if the ENY is now 10, then just like now... time to remake the mission!! All people in the mission are considered active, so they are counted while sitting in the tower or riding in the air all the same.
It's not perfect, but IMO it's a better solution. But I can't stay away long enough to quit for two weeks in protest so I live with what we got and whine about it when I get agrivated.
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:aok
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What the ENY system does not account for in its current configuration is WHERE on the map the overwhelming numbers are being utilized. For example, the Bish could have an overwhelming number of players, but be completely focused on the Rook front. The ENY system as it is designed does not seem to be able to account for this, thus leaving the Rooks in a position to contend with a Bish horde and having an ENY (or no ENY as it usually seems to happen) that assumes player numbers are evenly disbursed (how many times have we all heard "gee, the ROOKS and the KNitS aren't fighting each other, AGAIN").
My thought would be an ENY system that is pitted head to head with the two other countries, Bish vs Knight, Bish vs Rook and vice versa. This way each country would have a ENY restriction when going head to head. ENY restrictions would be parsed base by base and could extend 1, 2, 3 sectors from the given Country (ever changing) front line (if someone wants to overcome the ENY restriction by upping 3 sectors away - go for it!). Obviously this would not really restrict bombers since many missions are long range but could certainly prevent NOE bomb/bail and LankStuka scenarios.
Example of an ENY Table:
Bishop Knight Rook
Players 100 80 60
---------------------------------------------------------
Bish vs ENY X 10 20
Rook vs ENY 0 0 X
Knight vs ENY 0 X 10
My ENY example numbers are arbitrary, used as just to show the setup.
I also believe that using a system like this will work to balance the attack load across the map, driving players into theaters where the ENY is more evenly matched in order to get their favorite ride. In addition, more than likely no side will every be completely restricted within their respective country from a given airplane or GV based upon an unbalanced ENY.
Just a thought......
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Eny Seems to have gone away nearly entirely when a good # of players are in the arena. It's when numbers drop that ENY comes crashing down like skuzzy's hammer and boots.
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What percentage of it is out of date?
side A has 180 players........side B has 180 players.........side C has 120 players....NO eny for A/b
side A has 40 players..........side B has 40 players............side C has 20 players......ENY 15+ for A/B...wow that works
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side A has 180 players........side B has 180 players.........side C has 120 players....NO eny for A/b
side A has 40 players..........side B has 40 players............side C has 20 players......ENY 15+ for A/B...wow that works
you see 60 more players but all i see is 60 more knights sitting in the tower yelling why we arent taking bases.
semp
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you see 60 more players but all i see is 60 more knights sitting in the tower yelling why we arent taking bases.
semp
snicker
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you see 60 more players but all i see is 60 more knights sitting in the tower yelling why we arent taking bases.
semp
Bwahahahahahaha
I have little input on this subject because I could care less about ENY, but that right there is some funny stuff.
I love the 109-F. The only thing ENY gains me is extra points if i score a hit or two before someone augers out of pity for me.
Bob
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Bwahahahahahaha
I have little input on this subject because I could care less about ENY, but that right there is some funny stuff.
I love the 109-F. The only thing ENY gains me is extra points if i score a hit or two before someone augers out of pity for me.
Bob
109-F can be quite deadly in the right hands :D
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109-F can be quite deadly in the right hands :D
If those hands are populated exclusively with thumbs, not so much. :D
Bob
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If those hands are populated exclusively with thumbs, not so much. :D
Bob
Try using lots of throttle management and vertical maneuvers and see how that helps.
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you see 60 more players but all i see is 60 more knights sitting in the tower yelling why we arent taking bases.
semp
I blame SuperFly - finishing and furnishing our towers straight out of his Lazy Boy catalog. :bhead
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Yupp....working good again tonight.......keep up the good work :salute
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What no screen shot this time !! :furious
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If I had my way ENY would be gone
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If I had my way, my 109 would have 4x30mm with the weight of one...with at least 100 rounds per gun...and they would shoot like friggen lazer beams...noo no even better...hispanos!!
yea, if I had my way....
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If I had my way I'd partition off 25% space left in the fuel tank of my Friedrich. It would be filled with tea, with a direct link to my in c-pit tea pot. :D
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Indeed ENY was a complete joke last night in LWA I will agree.
Bish & Knights about 121-122 ish each
Rooks 171
Rooks had an ENY of 1.6 for about 5 minutes then nothing.....NO ENY. I logged.
Not that it matters WHO's side had what number, it doesn't. I change sides if I want to. It's the system that does not work.
Any system that allows ANY side to have 50+ player advantage and still be able to up whatever uber rides they care to does not work even in the loosest sense of it's existence.
It would be far better for HTC to admit the current ENY system in LW arena does not work, especially in prime-time weekends when arena populations are the highest (worse yet on small maps), and trash that failed system and have no system at all rather than to continue to defend a system that does absolutely nothing for what HTC tells us it's supposed to.
I'm sure it works fine for the handful of those who do EW and MW where 7 on one side and one or none on another is an issue (percentages). In LW, yeah, it's a joke.
Oh, and before those who live their lives in bondage of the 12 hour switch rule attempt to use that worn out lever as a solution to this dilema note that those on the 171 side made no attempt to hop to any of the lower team sides as a self-induced balancing fix. It never happened. Why should they when there was no ENY kicking in to keep them from upping their favorite uber ride. If ENY had done it's intended job there may had been that small price to pay--and incentive to help the imbalance by switching. It doesn't now and didn't when we could hop at will every hour.
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Indeed ENY was a complete joke last night in LWA I will agree.
Bish & Knights about 121-122 ish each
Rooks 171
Rooks had an ENY of 1.6 for about 5 minutes then nothing.....NO ENY. I logged.
Not that it matters WHO's side had what number, it doesn't. I change sides if I want to. It's the system that does not work.
Any system that allows ANY side to have 50+ player advantage and still be able to up whatever uber rides they care to does not work even in the loosest sense of it's existence.
It would be far better for HTC to admit the current ENY system in LW arena does not work, especially in prime-time weekends when arena populations are the highest (worse yet on small maps), and trash that failed system and have no system at all rather than to continue to defend a system that does absolutely nothing for what HTC tells us it's supposed to.
I'm sure it works fine for the handful of those who do EW and MW where 7 on one side and one or none on another is an issue (percentages). In LW, yeah, it's a joke.
Oh, and before those who live their lives in bondage of the 12 hour switch rule attempt to use that worn out lever as a solution to this dilema note that those on the 171 side made no attempt to hop to any of the lower team sides as a self-induced balancing fix. It never happened. Why should they when there was no ENY kicking in to keep them from upping their favorite uber ride. If ENY had done it's intended job there may had been that small price to pay--and incentive to help the imbalance by switching. It doesn't now and didn't when we could hop at will every hour.
then why get so upset. current system no eny, no system no eny. most likely you got frustrated about something else and logged just like I did. I dont really like that map and having to chase vtards all over so I went to play wot.
I didnt consider yesterday a waste of my time but more of a waste of good beer I bought :cry.
semp
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Percentage 101
Ex. A 121/171 = .71 or 71% Rooks have force 29% larger than Bish/Knights
Ex. B 50/100 = .5 Rooks STILL have 50 more players but they have a force that is 50% LARGER than other countries.
It goes by percentage, not by # of players
Carry on
:salute
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Another Saturday night joke :salute
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(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/enysux.jpg)
Whatever it goes by needs an adjustment if one team can have 65 more players and no restrictions.
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Herr Schnagel,
We need a chart to show what percentage of Ho, ENY, or
other threads of this type on BBS :aok
:cheers: Oz
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Percentage 101
Ex. A 121/171 = .71 or 71% Rooks have force 29% larger than Bish/Knights
Ex. B 50/100 = .5 Rooks STILL have 50 more players but they have a force that is 50% LARGER than other countries.
It goes by percentage, not by # of players
Carry on
:salute
Amazing after all the posts that some folks still don't get the fact that WE KNOW IT'S A PERCENTAGE THING.
The problem is that it fails under many conditions such as the many scenarios posted in this thread.
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Threads like these could be stopped in their tracks if hitech, pyro, or other such admin "in the know" would comment on the issue, then perhaps put a tid-bit of information on the home page that an be referenced every time there is a chicken little screaming that the sky is falling. :aok
I for one think that ENY does not go far enough, but that is my opinion. But then again, the ENY, OBJ value, OBJ hardness, and many other items are completely arbitrary and are up to changing as HTC sees fit. Things like the speed of an aircraft, thickness of tank armor, and weight of an ordnance load is not arbitrary since those are NOT up for interpretation, those are absolute based on actual hard data.
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Threads like these could be stopped in their tracks if hitech, pyro, or other such admin "in the know" would comment on the issue, then perhaps put a tid-bit of information on the home page that an be referenced every time there is a chicken little screaming that the sky is falling. :aok
I for one think that ENY does not go far enough, but that is my opinion. But then again, the ENY, OBJ value, OBJ hardness, and many other items are completely arbitrary and are up to changing as HTC sees fit. Things like the speed of an aircraft, thickness of tank armor, and weight of an ordnance load is not arbitrary since those are NOT up for interpretation, those are absolute based on actual hard data.
They most likely will not as you can't please everyone. Some want to be on the low number team, some on the high number team.
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(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/enysux.jpg)
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Whatever it goes by needs an adjustment if one team can have 65 more players and no restrictions.
adjustments,yes but why restriction? Better start a proportionally perking according with Eny. If you want your P51,enjoy it,but pay 10-20perks. I've seen many times buffs high bombing HQ,and having over 5 can't use the Me163. Well, me163 shouldn't be subject to eny,only perks.
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adjustments,yes but why restriction? Better start a proportionally perking according with Eny. If you want your P51,enjoy it,but pay 10-20perks. I've seen many times buffs high bombing HQ,and having over 5 can't use the Me163. Well, me163 shouldn't be subject to eny,only perks.
Now THAT's an idea!
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Perks are already subject to some eny based multiplier......... but I get the point the multiplier just needs to be more effective and relate to "normally" zero perked birds when eny would normally kick in.
For me I dont like ENY that tries to "balance" play by denying a side rides.
IMO the side with the biggest number should (all other stuff being equal) roll over the other sides ...there is nothing wrong with this particularly when side switching is subject to time restraints.
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Amazing after all the posts that some folks still don't get the fact that WE KNOW IT'S A PERCENTAGE THING.
The problem is that it fails under many conditions such as the many scenarios posted in this thread.
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/enysux.jpg)
Whatever it goes by needs an adjustment if one team can have 65 more players and no restrictions.
Notice the post just a few above yours stated a quantity difference and not a % difference? So who exactly is the "WE" you refer to?
Hence I have no desire to comment on a thread that from the start is nothing but a whine poorly hidden via an invalid premiss and argument.
HiTech
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:bhead
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Notice the post just a few above yours stated a quantity difference and not a % difference? So who exactly is the "WE" you refer to?
Hence I have no desire to comment on a thread that from the start is nothing but a whine poorly hidden via an invalid premiss and argument.
HiTech
Perhaps I should have worded my post differently. What I mean is that the percentage needs adjustment, especially as the overall population increases.
Example #1 - 10 players in arena:
Nits 40% - 4 players
Rooks 30% - 3 players
Bish 30% - 3 players
No reason for ENY to affect anything.
Example #2- 500 players in arena
Nits 40% - 200 players
Rooks 30% - 150 players
Bish 30% - 150 players
A 50 player advantage is significant, no? Shouldn't ENY kick in sooner as the numbers go up?
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cal there's a time in the game when if you have 50 more players it wont make a difference in gameplay. if you cannot defend a country with 178 players then either most of them are in the tower whining about why "we" not defending. or are up in the air whining about "why" we are not defending.
I can understand when there's 30 fighting against 80 but not 178 against 221. first of all the 221 are not gonna be in the same area. and second they're fighting against 330. there's many times us in knights have had numbers like that but we getting our butts kicked all over the place because we are fighting two countries who arent fighiting each other as much as fighting us.
so numbers by themselves sometimes are :meaningless" but percentages are a more accurate representation but even then when the numbers are so high like you quoted even if the percentage is above 50, it doesnt guarantee that that country is rolling bases like crazy. otherwise we in knights would be able to win more wars :D.
semp
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I think......I that screenie you took , yes there is a large numerical difference in the total numbers but not in flight.... Ultimately there is only a difference of about 33 over bish and 28 over knit..... Now I would hazard a guess that many of that lot nor inflight are waiting for a mission to launch...the mission would have been able to up eny 5 enmasse but after launch had you taken a screenie I'm sure you would have seen something totally different and had you been rook country. Would have been full of crying
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I'd like to see ENY twice, maybe 2.5X as punitive compared to what it is right now. Combine that with zone ENY and we actually might see something besides P51s and Spits.
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cal there's a time in the game when if you have 50 more players it wont make a difference in gameplay. if you cannot defend a country with 178 players then either most of them are in the tower whining about why "we" not defending. or are up in the air whining about "why" we are not defending.
I can understand when there's 30 fighting against 80 but not 178 against 221. first of all the 221 are not gonna be in the same area. and second they're fighting against 330. there's many times us in knights have had numbers like that but we getting our butts kicked all over the place because we are fighting two countries who arent fighiting each other as much as fighting us.
so numbers by themselves sometimes are :meaningless" but percentages are a more accurate representation but even then when the numbers are so high like you quoted even if the percentage is above 50, it doesnt guarantee that that country is rolling bases like crazy. otherwise we in knights would be able to win more wars :D.
semp
I think......I that screenie you took , yes there is a large numerical difference in the total numbers but not in flight.... Ultimately there is only a difference of about 33 over bish and 28 over knit..... Now I would hazard a guess that many of that lot nor inflight are waiting for a mission to launch...the mission would have been able to up eny 5 enmasse but after launch had you taken a screenie I'm sure you would have seen something totally different and had you been rook country. Would have been full of crying
Not sure if both of you are referring to this screen shot:
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/enysux.jpg)
Notice that the Rooks have 65 more players than the Bish. That translates to just over 140% of the Bish numbers. If another country has almost half again your numbers and no ENY keeping them from the best rides, You wouldn't say that is unbalanced?
edit: ENY is the same whether everyone or no one is in the tower. If a huge mission upped, the ENY would be unchanged.
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This only matters if your flying the low numbered eny planes right. How about just perk those rides instead of making them unavailable.
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cal there's a time in the game when if you have 50 more players it wont make a difference in gameplay. if you cannot defend a country with 178 players then either most of them are in the tower whining about why "we" not defending. or are up in the air whining about "why" we are not defending.
I can understand when there's 30 fighting against 80 but not 178 against 221. first of all the 221 are not gonna be in the same area. and second they're fighting against 330. there's many times us in knights have had numbers like that but we getting our butts kicked all over the place because we are fighting two countries who arent fighiting each other as much as fighting us.
so numbers by themselves sometimes are :meaningless" but percentages are a more accurate representation but even then when the numbers are so high like you quoted even if the percentage is above 50, it doesnt guarantee that that country is rolling bases like crazy. otherwise we in knights would be able to win more wars :D.
semp
saturday nite 130 bish 220 rooks 180 nits their was an eny of 2.1 :rofl
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saturday nite 130 bish 220 rooks 180 nits their was an eny of 2.1 :rofl
at 1 point their were 80 more rook and 50 more nits. would'nt be
so bad if it was a 3 country war.no big bish will fight their way back
and this will be a reset map.
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The In Flight numbers are barely different.
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:headscratch: :headscratch: :huh :bhead
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The In Flight numbers are barely different.
What he said ^^^^^^^
It is based on # of players in flight (the yellow) and NOT # of players in the arena (in red)
In other words, the guy in the tower taking a leak is not used as a variable in the ENY equation.
I cannot explain it in more simple terms than that.
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/fixenysux.jpg)
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I'd like to see ENY twice, maybe 2.5X as punitive compared to what it is right now. Combine that with zone ENY and we actually might see something besides P51s and Spits.
yup :aok
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I'd like to see ENY twice, maybe 2.5X as punitive compared to what it is right now. Combine that with zone ENY and we actually might see something besides P51s and Spits.
Definitely more punitive, but not any more sensitive.
adjustments,yes but why restriction? Better start a proportionally perking according with Eny. If you want your P51,enjoy it,but pay 10-20perks. I've seen many times buffs high bombing HQ,and having over 5 can't use the Me163. Well, me163 shouldn't be subject to eny,only perks.
I also like this idea since the availability and range are already limited coupled with the fact that the #'s, in-flight, can change dramatically in the time it takes to get to the HQ with bombers in most situations. I would like to see it cost more perks, but be exempt from ENY restrictions.. I don't think the ENY value of the aircraft should be changed because it IS quite an uber ride, only that it should be available for use, regardless of ENY situation.
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What he said ^^^^^^^
It is based on # of players in flight (the yellow) and NOT # of players in the arena (in red)
In other words, the guy in the tower taking a leak is not used as a variable in the ENY equation.
I cannot explain it in more simple terms than that.
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/fixenysux.jpg)
I think you are mistaken about that. ENY is based on arena population. Sitting in the tower does not affect it.
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I think you are mistaken about that. ENY is based on arena population. Sitting in the tower does not affect it.
Incorrect, it is based on total arena population. If it wasn't it could be greatly manipulated simply by mass take offs.
HiTech
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Incorrect, it is based on total arena population. If it wasn't it could be greatly manipulated simply by mass take offs.
HiTech
<Chekov voice> "That's what I said." You should have quoted the other guy. :neener:
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Definitely more punitive, but not any more sensitive.
ENY isn't a problem for anyone who doesn't sit in perk/low ENY rides all the time, then again only 25% ever figured this part out.
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Incorrect, it is based on total arena population. If it wasn't it could be greatly manipulated simply by mass take offs.
HiTech
I stand corrected. I was always under the impression that it was the other way around and that it was only based upon "active" players in the arena.
Thank you for letting me know that.
The system, as it is now, seems to be the fairest option with the tools that you have available to you guys but nothing is ever perfect.
Besides, what Butcher said:
ENY isn't a problem for anyone who doesn't sit in perk/low ENY rides all the time, then again only 25% ever figured this part out.
The higher ENY planes can be just as capable, when flown properly, but it takes more time to learn them and most folks are not willing to take the time to learn them.
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The higher ENY planes can be just as capable, when flown properly, but it takes more time to learn them and most folks are not willing to take the time to learn them.
I came to this conclusion years ago when I got tired of dealing with ENY, rather then whine about it (not to be confused with the main topic about having more players on one side) I did my switch back when there was two LWA's.
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The point of this thread seems to be that ENY is not kicking in fast enough, not that people can't fly their late war monsters.
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The point of this thread seems to be that ENY is not kicking in fast enough
That is how I feel personally (combined with a new zone eny program), but I imagine that the whines it would cause isn't worth the headaces to Hitech. Can't say I blame him...
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That is how I feel personally (combined with a new zone eny program), but I imagine that the whines it would cause isn't worth the headaces to Hitech. Can't say I blame him...
Kicks in too darn fast when numbers are lower.. Gotta be fun for those 109 experten.. k4 @20 eny v Spit 14 @5 +perked. now there's another joke.
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I am one of those players who is not effected by ENY. However, that doesn't mean that I dont think it should be more drastic. ;)
I think HTC should re-evaluate its plane set. The La7, Spit 16, and P51D, and perhaps a few others all deserve a bit of an adjustment. Since they are not perked, they should at least be effected by the slightest of ENY restrictions. the Spit 16 and P51D could both be lowered to 2 or 3, IMO.
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I was unaffected too, thank god the K4 has an ENY of 20, but I still think it needs to kick in earlier, be gentler at lower numbers, and be tyrannicly crule at super high numbers. You have a total of 40 more people on, congrats, the horders get to fly ENY 35+.
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another fun friday night with side balancing working so very very good...... i seen oh so many rooks and nits switching sides when they out numbered the bish by 50 each...... :bhead
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another fun friday night with side balancing working so very very good...... i seen oh so many rooks and nits switching sides when they out numbered the bish by 50 each...... :bhead
I used to do that before the timer went from 1h to 12h. :)
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:bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead This thread is still going? :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
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:bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead This thread is still going? :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
why not...truth is the truth.....look at tonight AGAIN...same stuff diff night
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how is the 1 hr switch gonna help side balancing. or you mean that all the players in rook/knights had just switched and couldnt switch back to bishops and the 12 hour limit is at fault :rofl.
semp
The more adaptability the system gives the player the more chance there is the players will adapt, contrary to your beliefs there is a good lot of people who will switch to find a fight. I hear from the horse's mouth that this is supposed to be a buffer to stop wild swings in numbers, speaking from my own experience of when I log on to play it just doesn't work. This from the other night, so the guys we are fighting Knights have a 66 man advantage :rolleyes:, Rooks side of the coin isn't much better a 51 man advantage :rolleyes: Thats a lot of players.
(http://jpeghoster.com/images/62007797543137416322.jpg)
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Well from that picture it certainly proves it to me, NOBODY wants to be a Bish any more! :noid
Those numbers, while not balanced in any way also don't wildly swing. They stay pretty constant as people log in and out. I really don't think a 1 hour switch time would create massive swings in numbers either, but why not go with 3 hours? There would be less switching in a tight time frame, but it would open up the ability to switch more than once a night for those who log longer hours, which in most cases are those that are here to play and fight.
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ever since I left my old squad, I've been bish, they have been consistently outnumbered during US prime time for quite some time.
however, I think during mid days, they actually outnumber rooks/nits.. I've logged in during midday, and would switch, but I know during prime time, bish will be outnumbered, so just sit tight or log off. I do not want to be stuck on the high # side. 12 hours is too long.
so, there are swings, but it's predictable.
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I used to do that before the timer went from 1h to 12h. :)
So did I...