Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: jimson on February 20, 2012, 12:56:50 AM
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This could be a modified rifle squad with say seven riflemen armed with M1 garand, one BAR gunner, one mortarman and one anti tank man (bazooka)
There would be a defensive rifle squad choice that would spawn somewhat near the maproom, but would still have to move into position for defense.
Also, along with the "troop" loadout there would be an offensive rifle squad load out
When the player selects a troop carrier and chooses "troops", it is the same as it is now. Troops have no action but to run to the maproom.
If the player selects Rifle squad, as soon as the squad is deployed, the carrying vehicle disappears and the player becomes the squad leader with 9 "drones" so to speak. The drones advance with and cover the squad leader and drop to a defensive prone position each time the leader stops.
The player could switch positions as they do with bomber drones and the selected position becomes the squad leader. If the squad leader is killed, he rotates to the next position as happens currently with bomber drones.
In the case of a "manned" squad, only the squad leader needs to enter the maproom for a successful capture, however defensive squads cannot be elminated by porking the barracks, so the defenders will always retain this capability until the base is captured by the enemy.
Once the defensive squad is all killed however, they may not be able to respawn and get into position quickly enough to prevent capture.
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I like it, minus the Bazooka guy. Tanks have a hard enough time being effective on the offensive without 60mm shaped charge rockets flying out of the undestroyed barns.
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How infantry might be implemented, but will not be.
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How infantry might be implemented, but will not be.
Productive comment.
Aces High will probably have infantry someday, I know HTC has said he wants it. Something to the effect of fighting your way to the maproom, which is similar to what you've mentioned.
How cool would this be!?
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:aok Ace, you are looking at this from only one perspective. Infantry dispersed along side of friendly tanks was a tactic developed to combat the anti tank personnel. The blade cuts both ways, hidden forward observers with anti tank possibilities could be as much of an advantage as deterent. Every bush, every hill, every bombed out building would present a threat. Infantry could advance ahead and clear the way.
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:aok Ace, you are looking at this from only one perspective. Infantry dispersed along side of friendly tanks was a tactic developed to combat the anti tank personnel. The blade cuts both ways, hidden forward observers with anti tank possibilities could be as much of an advantage as deterent. Every bush, every hill, every bombed out building would present a threat. Infantry could advance ahead and clear the way.
true but they had a lot more players in ww2 than what we have in one afternoon here. and the troops will more than likely kill the tank wars.
semp
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So? adjust it so it takes a particularly precise bazooka hit, or more than one to kill a tank.
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Currently, the infantry is hard coded to run to the MR once deployed. I think the best way to implement infantry first is to have them coded to run to ack guns, ammo depots, barracks, etc, or whatever destroyable OBJ HTC wants to program in to the coding and start with that. Code it so that if 5 infantry arrive at the nearest OBJ it goes boom, or something of the sort.
I vote to keep the infantry out of the anti-tank role for the moment. I would like to see the role of infantry expanded though, and it seems as if implementing what I suggested would be the easiest. *shrugs*
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How infantry might be implemented, but will not be.
Why does every post have "this guy"?
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Why does every post have "this guy"?
He may not have read the posts where hitech mentions he would like the game to eventually include some infantry aspect.
Currently, the infantry is hard coded to run to the MR once deployed. I think the best way to implement infantry first is to have them coded to run to ack guns, ammo depots, barracks, etc, or whatever destroyable OBJ HTC wants to program in to the coding and start with that. Code it so that if 5 infantry arrive at the nearest OBJ it goes boom, or something of the sort.
I vote to keep the infantry out of the anti-tank role for the moment. I would like to see the role of infantry expanded though, and it seems as if implementing what I suggested would be the easiest. *shrugs*
Interesting. I would like to see infantry expanded beyond AI and be player controlled.
My original post was just a late night musing of how it might be done in a way that would fit how the game currently operates.
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He may not have read the posts where hitech mentions he would like the game to eventually include some infantry aspect.
Or maybe rather than explaining a logical pro or con of the wish, instead makes some little punk comment.
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Or maybe rather than explaining a logical pro or con of the wish, instead makes some little punk comment.
LOL point taken, but coming from this meat grinder BBS, that mild comment wasn't even enough to raise my hackles.
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LOL point taken, but coming from this meat grinder BBS, that mild comment wasn't even enough to raise my hackles.
You are right. I guess I have been reading the bbs too much. I read to be informed,discuss, get some answers and maybe help someone and my tolerance of the smug "I'm smarter than you" and snide remarks from the "E-thugs" (it's too dangerous talking smack in person) are getting to me.
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You are right. I guess I have been reading the bbs too much. I read to be informed,discuss, get some answers and maybe help someone and my tolerance of the smug "I'm smarter than you" and snide remarks from the "E-thugs" (it's too dangerous talking smack in person) are getting to me.
LOL, I think I've become a little desensitized as I expected to see a lot worse this morning.
:salute
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As an ex-infantryman, I enjoy the warm comfy feeling in my m4 when all you hear when being strafed is bb's bouncing off. A luxury you do not have in the open with only a fatigue shirts thickness between you and the pointy fast flying metal bits flying around.
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Basically, WW2OL mixed with Aces High. :D :aok Either way, it would be neat. +1
As for the "Bazooka Guys" (I'd call em Zookers), they could be a perked troop. I just hope we have the Anti-Tank Rifle Infantry as well. By the time we get the Infantry aspect though, we'll likely have many a vehicle that an ATR guy can take out, so him being in is a solid bet. :aok
We do have a system in place that could help limit what type of troops are there, ENY and Perks.
Using the list below as a reference in terms of perks:
http://wiki.wwiionline.com/mediawiki/index.php/German_Army_Units
The Rifleman, Sub-machine Gunner, Engineer, Mortarman and the ATR guys could be no perk.
The Grenadier, Sniper and LMG could have a light to moderate perk cost.
The Sapper and Zooker (which isn't listed in the list), could have a moderate to high perk cost.
A basic list of what could be perked, but ye gotta start somewhere.
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:aok Ace, you are looking at this from only one perspective. Infantry dispersed along side of friendly tanks was a tactic developed to combat the anti tank personnel. The blade cuts both ways, hidden forward observers with anti tank possibilities could be as much of an advantage as deterent. Every bush, every hill, every bombed out building would present a threat. Infantry could advance ahead and clear the way.
The problem is that infintry won't be able to keep up with tanks, unless they slow WAY down. If they slow down, they become much more vulnerable to enemy tanks and aircraft.
IDK about other people, but I've always been a hard charger. Oh, sometimes it ends up costing me a panther or two, but usually it results in a large enemy attack being routed. If infintry can't get back into the halftrack, they're not suited to attacks.
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Hmm a mix with WW2 Online... Well, AcesHigh is already a semi-mix World of Tanks...
I can't see it happening.
HTC can't keep the aircraft graphics up to date, there's noway they will be able to keep the graphics current on even more 3D models; (tanks, planes and people) with their current staffing level..
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Hmm a mix with WW2 Online... Well, AcesHigh is already a semi-mix World of Tanks...
:huh
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Hmm a mix with WW2 Online... Well, AcesHigh is already a semi-mix World of Tanks...
I can't see it happening.
HTC can't keep the aircraft graphics up to date, there's noway they will be able to keep the graphics current on even more 3D models; (tanks, planes and people) with their current staffing level..
Indeed. It's simply an overly complex idea.
Actually I would have expected something of the sort from davidwales rather than a veteran player/poster.
What I was absolutely ready for were all the whiny posts :devil
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I hope your not insinuating my post is in the whiney catagory Mr C?
I wonder if some of these people missed out on the happy period of gaming called Battlefield 1942 and it's add ons?
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the thought hadn't even begun to speculate about the merest possibility of crossing my mind
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Good, because I don't whine, I whinge :P
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+1000 Infantry would be awesome! It will add so many new aspects to the game!
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Actually I would have expected something of the sort from davidwales rather than a veteran player/poster.
The big difference is that davidwales would have never done any research to see if this sort of thing is something the company might ever consider.
Adding troops control is on MY wish list.
HiTech
I wish AH Had a character animation system so so FPS and troops could be integrated.
HiTech
HiTech dream of capture.
1. Drop troops on town creates a spawn.
2. In building 1st person shooter fights to take over the town.
That's something you might want to try before posting something like that.
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+1
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The big difference is that davidwales would have never done any research to see if this sort of thing is something the company might ever consider.
That's something you might want to try before posting something like that.
so.. that was 2006... so 2018 could be our possible implement date.
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I know that adding infantry is something that HTC (and probably all of the rest of us too) would like
I also feel pretty confident in repeating my earlier comment - your suggestion is overly complex and won't be implemented
Let's see if I'm proved wrong
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Jimson,
What you described for troop AI animation is not as complex as Coombz wants to make it, unless he is a game developer and has more experience to share with us. In fact, there was a game that was called Chain of Command. The AI was very crude but did exactly what you were discussing with the exception, that they were done in semi private rooms and there were no vehicles at all.
Each player had command of 5 troops, he assigned the available weapons to each troop, along with their standard issue of 3 grenades. I had hours of fun playing and formed the sort of bonds with other players as AH has done. In fact, that is how I discovered AH and WWIIOnline back in 1999. After both games had been suggested, I found my machine could not handle the beta WW2online but had no problems at all with AH, and so I was hooked.
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I see, so in this post and reply, you weren't denigrating the general concept of FPS troops , just my specific take on it.
Gotcha.
Hmm a mix with WW2 Online... Well, AcesHigh is already a semi-mix World of Tanks...
I can't see it happening.
HTC can't keep the aircraft graphics up to date, there's noway they will be able to keep the graphics current on even more 3D models; (tanks, planes and people) with their current staffing level..
Indeed. It's simply an overly complex idea.
Actually I would have expected something of the sort from davidwales rather than a veteran player/poster.
What I was absolutely ready for were all the whiny posts :devil
Here's another post. Hope it isnt too waleish.
Wow, now this strikes me as a fun place to do first person shooter action. Imagine, getting the mission together, "para-trooping" in, and having to do battle with opposing infantry to actually CAPTURE the map room. Talk about a gold plated hoot. How about you become an infantryman if your tank is disabled? Then the GVers would have troops armed with bazookas to deal with. How about storming the beaches in LVTs? AHII meets COD?
I hope you dream becomes reality.
HiTech
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I think we're all ignoring the fact that this would require essentially an entire rework of the game. If multiple people playing as troops are required to take a base, then we'll need some more structure to the game, past the voulintary missions if we want to see map wins.
We would also need a TON of new structure modeling, such as building interiors, improved minimum foliage modeling (for cover), we would have to model a crap load of new animations and interactions with vehicles/objects (what happens if I run an infintryman over with my tank, or chop him up with my proppeler when flying super low alt?), new weapons, etc.
The bailed pilot's .45 becomes much more usefull.
The role of aircraft, vehicles, and ships would change entirely. Aircraft, and ships would then be playing support for the ground troops (it would be all about supporting the fighting actually being done in town), tanks and infintry would be playing a mutual-support game.
Overall, the work that would need to be done for a proper job is just staggering.
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that game exists already, graphics suck and game play does to. blitzkreig i think its called.
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I think we're all ignoring the fact that this would require essentially an entire rework of the game. If multiple people playing as troops are required to take a base, then we'll need some more structure to the game, past the voulintary missions if we want to see map wins.
We would also need a TON of new structure modeling, such as building interiors, improved minimum foliage modeling (for cover), we would have to model a crap load of new animations and interactions with vehicles/objects (what happens if I run an infintryman over with my tank, or chop him up with my proppeler when flying super low alt?), new weapons, etc.
The bailed pilot's .45 becomes much more usefull.
The role of aircraft, vehicles, and ships would change entirely. Aircraft, and ships would then be playing support for the ground troops (it would be all about supporting the fighting actually being done in town), tanks and infintry would be playing a mutual-support game.
Overall, the work that would need to be done for a proper job is just staggering.
Probably why hitech has talked about it publicly since at least 2006 but we haven't seen anything. It would just be a monumental undertaking could be damaging to the development of the rest of the game. Of course, there is always the chance he's been working on it slowly for those 6 years and he'll spring it on us out of the blue (but I kind of doubt that).
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Well, I for one am willing to admit that I don't have the slightest clue as to what is feasible for HTC :headscratch: .
It was wished for, that troops didn't look and move like Frankenstein. Look at what we have now.... :banana: :banana: :banana:
You say, that in order for these ideas to be done properly, a whole new world needs to be created??? :rolleyes: Oh well, I guess that you haven't noticed that your tank suddenly springs back from laying on its top and is completely fixed from clicking on a text box in the corner of your screen. :eek: Even if like Smokin' says the troop animation attacks hard targets like field guns and other buildings rather than running to the maproom and kicking a cloud of dust as they do now, I don't believe that would break the game engine. :uhoh But who knows.....
I am just saying....... there could be a great leap in fun and overall strategy with a different use for troops.
If HiTech doesn't want to dick around with the main arena, he could possibly give it to us as a custom arena option, or even one better, replace the duplicate game mechanics in Early and Mid War with something NEW. WW1 trench warfare hmmmmmmmm........ :pray
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On infantry.
I would rather infantry occupied town buildings rather than we be required to destroy them (town buildings) prior to capture being enabled.
Infantry would occupy Town buildings
Infantry would also be able to occupy destroyed Town buildings.
Infantry would have to occupy more than 50% of the buildings prior to capture being possible.
Infantry can be bombed, shelled or machine gunned.
Infantry (when fixed) can kill mobile infantry via small arms.
Infantry will not have icons. (FR)
Infantry will deploy to Town buildings or Map room which ever is the closer (map room only if 50% is occupied)
Infantry will return to barracks # mins after deployment.
Then some sappers..........
From an Jeep you target an enemy tank and release a sapper team (2 infantry) they work their way to the tank (providing it has not moved) and stick on a mine which blows up after # seconds the team then returns to you if you have not moved else they are lost. Each jeep has 2 mines you have to get both sappers back to a "landed successfully" for one "attaboy".
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I propose that instead of occupying town buildings or maprooms in some irrelevant town as a requirement for base capture, the troops should run to the tower building and all meet in the o'club.... Where they do the macarena, like in the hanger! :x
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Reaper,
I had a similar idea even if you weren't serious. It makes more sense to capture the military objectives than the village. Maybe a compromise in current base capture. Troops capture the tower and the base cannot be repaired without the help of the villagers. To free the villagers the town must be captured separately, and would have their own commando spawn away from the maproom.
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Well, I for one am willing to admit that I don't have the slightest clue as to what is feasible for HTC :headscratch: .
It was wished for, that troops didn't look and move like Frankenstein. Look at what we have now.... :banana: :banana: :banana:
You say, that in order for these ideas to be done properly, a whole new world needs to be created??? :rolleyes: Oh well, I guess that you haven't noticed that your tank suddenly springs back from laying on its top and is completely fixed from clicking on a text box in the corner of your screen. :eek: Even if like Smokin' says the troop animation attacks hard targets like field guns and other buildings rather than running to the maproom and kicking a cloud of dust as they do now, I don't believe that would break the game engine. :uhoh But who knows.....
I am just saying....... there could be a great leap in fun and overall strategy with a different use for troops.
If HiTech doesn't want to dick around with the main arena, he could possibly give it to us as a custom arena option, or even one better, replace the duplicate game mechanics in Early and Mid War with something NEW. WW1 trench warfare hmmmmmmmm........ :pray
The vehicle supplys have nothing to do with this. Its a completly different section of the game, much more closely related to how aircraft can be completly rearmed and refueld in 30 seconds. I'm sure the only reason the vehicles don't take 30 seconds to fix and rearm is because they're intended to be used beyond the cover of the auto-ack, and because they have absolutely no cover from enemy tanks.
And a whole new world WOULD have to be created for it to be done RIGHT. For infintry to have any significant place in the game, the entire game dynamics would be changed.
Aircraft would no longer be the main focus of the game, they would simply be support for the infintry and tanks(Aircraft could no longer take a base on their own, they would need people fighting as infintry to take a base)
Ships would only be shoved even further into the supporting role, the entire goal being to provide a base of opperations/support for the aircraft, which are themsevles supporting the infintry.
C47, LVT, and M3/SdKfz 251 drivers would become simultaneously significantly less important in the tactical picture, and critical in the strategic picture: You would try to keep the M3 or goon alive as long as possible, but as long as he is close enough for the troops to walk to town, their deaths are much less significant. But they would be much more important strategicly, since you would need to get enough M3 drivers together to move the infintrymen the 30-odd miles from base to base.
Tanks would no longer be important simply for the fact that they kill other vehicles, and can deack bases/towns. They would be important for the support they give infintry, and because they can kill other vehicles (which would be usefull only because those vehicles provide support for enemy troops). Only here would it truely be a mutual support system. Infintry would help keem infintry away from the tanks, which lets the tanks do their job more effectivly, and their job is helping the infintry do ITS job more effectivly.
The importance of the field structures would be diminished overall, and the vehicle hangers/barracks would be the main target for a bomber raid, as opposed to aircraft hangers, radar, and ordnance.
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Lol, as an ex-sapper (basically an infantrymen with explosives) I have had the misfortune of never being in any Tank, but in an M113 and I willl tell you this much, those pointy red-hot sharp metal things went right through the thin armor. Now, the early US issued Bazooka was TERRIBLE. You literaly had to be on top of a Tank to penetrate its armor which resulted in A LOT of dead Bazookamen and many wasted rockets. After the use of shape-charge projectiles the American Bazooka became a little more effective. Look it up as I am not even going to attempt to try and post anything. Good Idea, but will play Havoc with many FR's for guys will the old computers : (
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My point about how things magically get repaired, was only one example of how an entire element of gameplay was replaced by a virtual box. Another example is how the troops stamp their way to the maproom and then kick dust to represent commandos taking over a headquarters (I presume).
Just because you can't envision a simple representation of what is being wished for, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist or that it would be less meaningful. I have had Des, challenge me to a .45 duel in the middle of the village with the very limited chute (bailed pilots). The entire time, I was busting my sides and tearing up from laughing at his chute dodging between buildings popping of a couple of rounds and dipping back and forth around a corner.
The only question that really remains, is how does HiTech envision his game advancing.
Scotty,
It has been my experience that excessive number of troops in an area do very little to framerates. If the ground aspect were kept at a very minimal scale, such as only allowing limited options of what to do with the troops, the chances of everyone ditching their planes to battle it out at the O.K. Corale will be pretty slim. So, the framerate issue should not present itself any more often than it does with large hordes of planes.
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If we want player-controlable infintry to have any major role in the game, that can't be better accomplished by fighters, we're going to have to change the dynamics of the game at minimum.
Simply by having player-controlled troops fight it out in the town, you relegate everything else (save possibly tanks, though even thats not a sure thing) to the support role.
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Right now the AI troopers have a MAJOR role in the game (any argument there?).
Giving the player more control or just having diffeent roles or options for the troops would be a plus for the game. It doesn't have to become a XBox title. Just enhance the good things that we already have >>>> EXCELLENT flight models.
If we are thinking OUTSIDE of the "X"box, then having troops play a slightly different role that has more player control beyond kicking them out of a perfectly good plane, has countless possibilities. Even if player control isn't changed, the objectives and/ or actions of the AI troopers could very well propell the gameplay into the next generation of Aces High STRATEGO game board fun.
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No argument there, but theres an incredible difference between having troops that just run for a hillock or set of stairs, and somehow capture a base upon entering that structure, and having player-controled troops (troop vs troop combat would be the main goal, else auto-troops would be simpler and could accompish the same job) that play a significant role in the game (as in they have more of a job than just running strait for the maproom).
Fact is that for anything but troop-vs-troop fighting, a vehicle or plane is and would be a more effective tool than a player-controled soldier. Aircraft and vehciles are more effective at killing eachother, and destroying town buildings, any and all field structures, auto and manned guns, ships, and strats than any WWII era infintryman could ever hope to be.
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Agreed :aok
I guess, what bugs me is that we have a base capture system that most veterans have become so comfortable with, they know the sweet spots like the back of their hand. So, instead of a massively fun even sided furball generated by this mechanism, it either rolled over with overkill in numbers or it is stolen from under the noses of sleeping guards.
A new mechanism, that both promotes the high altitude war and the low altitude and ground combatants, that gives equally sized attacking forces an equal chance of CAPTURE or advancement, would do so much more than just provide infantry involvement. This kind of BALANCED opportunity to obtain territory or tactical advantages would catch on like wildfire and fights could be found around the map, not just in one or two lopsided contests.
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I think we won't see that kind of fight untill the focus of the game shifts away from capturing bases using the fastest, most effective aircraft available, and doing it all NOE. Theres no big incentive we can offer for flying at higher altitude that we haven't already given and that wouldn't be unrealistic. And we can't penalize people that fly at low altitude, because that would be 'trying to force people to play "MY" way :rolleyes:'. We can't offer incentives for fighting that we already haven't without changing the game dynamics, as perks seem to be a rather unimportant factor in dweeb aka lemming (or 'hording **** ' if you prefer :D) motivation.
Only way I can see the crap ending is if we make vehicles and aircraft just support weapons for infintry (and the fly-boys won't like giving up their place in the sun, and EZ mode play-style. They'll drag out the whole "its a combat flight sim. It says air combat is the main focus of the game" argument.). We would also have to give immediate warning as soon as an enemy set foot within 10 miles of a base, regardless of altitude, or else we would just be promoting the same low-alt low-opening paratrooper missions, only with player-controlled troops.