Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Shuffler on March 08, 2012, 10:00:16 AM
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This hit me while reading another thread regarding rudder pedals. It went as follows.....
Need? It's not about need, it's about fun and cool. Feels more like flying a real plane with pedals. Besides it's good traing for when your 747 it hit by a small plane, sucking the pilots out, and you have to take the controls and land it. :lol
Which begs the question..... your on a plane and the pilot and co-pilot are incapacitated. You have a choice among three gamers to take the controls. One experienced in AH, one in M$FS, and one in IL2...... which would you choose?
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Probably the MSFS guy if I couldn't do it for some reason. Not that I am all that great; I would just rather trust in my skills than somebody else's.
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The one with a pilot's license.
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I should have said you can't do it yourself. :)
MSFS is interesting as the person may have actually flown the aircraft your in at the time of the accident.
IL2 they have probably delt with more realism in engine and flight control.
AH they have dealt with more realistic FM.
They all have their pluses.................
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AH obviously. Look how often AHers get back to base with all kinds of pieces hanging off and blood all over the canopy. Never happens MSFS. :neener:
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I choose the other hidden option, parachute.
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The one with a pilot's license.
Winner!
Failing that, I believe they're all about equal. Each knows just enough to possibly not kill everybody on board on landing.
Wiley.
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AH guys as the pilot M$FS for the copilot :aok
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.....and if there's a direct crosswind on the only runway available; wind 28 gusting to 35 knots?
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.....and if there's a direct crosswind on the only runway available; wind 28 gusting to 35 knots?
Then I'll take the Microsoft guy.
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I should have said you can't do it yourself. :)
MSFS is interesting as the person may have actually flown the aircraft your in at the time of the accident.
IL2 they have probably delt with more realism in engine and flight control.
AH they have dealt with more realistic FM.
They all have their pluses.................
lol, no they don;t. The spitfire flight model and engine management have nothing to do with a 747. I would however select the AH BBS poster to land me since AH people seem to be experts in everything from global economics to brain surgery, so they could probably fly a 747 no problem.
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Come we'd just need to know where the landing gear button is...
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What if no one has fixed the hole where the original pilot/co-pilot got sucked out of? I think my choice would be whoever weighs the most.
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i would pick none of them, nor would i touch the controls, nor would i in any way/shape/form partake in any rescue attempts.
why? because of the survivors, some schmuck will find a way to sue the pants off of virtually anyone that had anything to do with anything that got that plane down, allowing them to live. :noid
or.......i'll choose to have scotty beam me up.
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What if no one has fixed the hole where the original pilot/co-pilot got sucked out of? I think my choice would be whoever weighs the most.
:rofl
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Oh yeah, and which one will know how to handle the rapid decompression?
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This hit me while reading another thread regarding rudder pedals. It went as follows.....
Which begs the question..... your on a plane and the pilot and co-pilot are incapacitated. You have a choice among three gamers to take the controls. One experienced in AH, one in M$FS, and one in IL2...... which would you choose?
Anyone but those three. They all think they already know how to do it, the guy on the radio will have a far better of talking down someone who has never done it before and truly understands the fact that they are going to die, for real.
And if no one on radio to talk them down, I still choose any but them. Can you imagine the complaints at the pearly gates of the crap FM, stoopid stick stirring, and all other line of complaints when one of them augers it?
bob
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Oh yeah, and which one will know how to handle the rapid decompression?
I'll take the one with the longest useful consciousness time at x altitude.
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lol, no they don;t. The spitfire flight model and engine management have nothing to do with a 747. I would however select the AH BBS poster to land me since AH people seem to be experts in everything from global economics to brain surgery, so they could probably fly a 747 no problem.
You should try to be less negative in some of your posts. Life is hard sometimes.. you'll pull through is you try to keep your spirits up. Your self desciption is dead on though.
They all do have their plusses.
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depends on the weather and time of day, if it's night time the AHer is done for. Microsoft guy would be best bet.
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is there a jewish, a catholic priest and a french man on board?
semp
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Modern airliners don't need to be landed manually in that type of situation.
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You should try to be less negative in some of your posts. Life is hard sometimes.. you'll pull through is you try to keep your spirits up. Your self desciption is dead on though.
They all do have their plusses.
Bah, the only negative about my post was your inability to see that it was funny. Don't bring your feelings from other threads in this one. Follow your advice and maybe you will see the joke in my post. Go kick a homeless person to make yourself feel better now :lol
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Modern airliners don't need to be landed manually in that type of situation.
How would that be accomplished otherwise?
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Totally depends on the aircraft and airport.
If it's a newer airliner with an automatic landing system, coming to an airport with a CAT III ILS. Well then a child could do it. Tower would just have to tell them which switches to flip to which knobs to fiddle and the plane would land itself.
Even short of that, I don't think it would be that difficult in fair weather, for the tower to talk even a complete rookie through it. They'd just leave it on autopilot down to minimum, then they'd only have to fly it the last 200 or 100 feet. Find an experienced pilot in the aircraft type in the tower, and they could talk them down. They would have plenty of time before actually taking the controls to do all the stuff like arm the spoilers, and bring down the flaps. It would probably be a rough landing, but airliners are pretty tough.
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Tower would just have to tell them which switches to flip to which knobs to fiddle and the plane would land itself.
Even short of that, I don't think it would be that difficult in fair weather, for the tower to talk even a complete rookie through it.
So, the air traffic controllers are fully qualified and familiar with the switchology of airliners they control and are authorized to do such a thing?
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How would that be accomplished otherwise?
There have been airliners flying now for many years with the capability to land automatically, it is a mandatory feature to be able to fly CAT 3 ILS approaches.
They can even do it in O minimum, O RVR conditions (classified as a CAT 3C ) problem with that is that you would then have an aircraft on the ground that can't see anywhere to taxi so they would have to tow them in very slowly, so AFAIK there are no airports yet that support CAT 3c, at least not until they get some kind of auto-taxi-to-the-gate as well.
And to get back on topic...
I'd want this guy
(http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/506323600/ted.striker2_bigger.jpg)
Ted Striker :rock
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So, the air traffic controllers are fully qualified and familiar with the switchology of airliners they control and are authorized to do such a thing?
No, but they could easily call the ops center for the airline in trouble, or another airline which uses the same aircraft, and get an experienced pilot on the line. Get him in the tower at the destination airport to talk the plane down. Everything in the flight prior to final approach could easily be done over the radio, it's all just telling the autopilot and FMC what to do.
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Talked down by....
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnutatL0SX1qditrlo1_250.jpg)
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No, but they could easily call the ops center for the airline in trouble, or another airline which uses the same aircraft, and get an experienced pilot on the line. Get him in the tower at the destination airport to talk the plane down. Everything in the flight prior to final approach could easily be done over the radio, it's all just telling the autopilot and FMC what to do.
Do all of the airlines have experienced pilots on call for such a situation at each destination?
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Talked down by....
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnutatL0SX1qditrlo1_250.jpg)
to this day, i think that is one of the funniest movies i've ever seen.
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Bah, the only negative about my post was your inability to see that it was funny. Don't bring your feelings from other threads in this one. Follow your advice and maybe you will see the joke in my post. Go kick a homeless person to make yourself feel better now :lol
I've found most every post funny so far..... get a bigger hook. :neener:
As for the homeless person... chances are he just doesn't want to work. He may want to be president of some corporation but was not wanting to start at the bottom. :D
Case in point.... guy under a bridge holding a sign, "will work for food". Several folks drive by and give him money for food. They do not want to hire him for anything as he is a stranger out on the street (security). I go by and tell him if he comes to my shop I'll give him a job where he can earn some money. My shop is just down the road within a couple of miles. He never shows up. This has happened on several occassions. Some folks consider this freedom. They have no bills and are free to go and do as they please. So which is this one your refering to?
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There have been airliners flying now for many years with the capability to land automatically, it is a mandatory feature to be able to fly CAT 3 ILS approaches.
They can even do it in O minimum, O RVR conditions (classified as a CAT 3C ) problem with that is that you would then have an aircraft on the ground that can't see anywhere to taxi so they would have to tow them in very slowly, so AFAIK there are no airports yet that support CAT 3c, at least not until they get some kind of auto-taxi-to-the-gate as well.
And to get back on topic...
I'd want this guy
(http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/506323600/ted.striker2_bigger.jpg)
Ted Striker :rock
:rofl
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I've found most every post funny so far..... get a bigger hook. :neener:
As for the homeless person... chances are he just doesn't want to work. He may want to be president of some corporation but was not wanting to start at the bottom. :D
Case in point.... guy under a bridge holding a sign, "will work for food". Several folks drive by and give him money for food. They do not want to hire him for anything as he is a stranger out on the street (security). I go by and tell him if he comes to my shop I'll give him a job where he can earn some money. My shop is just down the road within a couple of miles. He never shows up. This has happened on several occassions. Some folks consider this freedom. They have no bills and are free to go and do as they please. So which is this one your refering to?
Chances are that he's mentally ill and comes from somewhere that doesn't recognize it, or has become addicted to drugs (he shouldn't have used them, true, but if he's truly addicted then he can no longer control it and needs help). Depression due to living on the street doesn't help things- sure, there are homeless people who lack motivation, but I'd guess that living out there doesn't help your energy. Don't forget PTSD veterans, either. Surprisingly, most mental diseases are treatable; therapists really work wonders (they did on me, at least). It's unreasonable to expect a homeless person to treat themselves for stuff like that at all. Don't forget all the physiological conditions that develop from not going to the doctor, too- the list goes on and on.
Now, that said, saying "go kick a homeless person" is just hurtful and dedalos shouldn't have posted it. It's plain old mean.
The homeless guys may have been mentally ill and aware that they couldn't help you, or not aware of it and spent their entire afternoon searching in vain. Walk them to the bus stop, get on the bus with them, and then take the bus to your shop. Check them out and see if they can work; if not, see if they have shelter and if they don't, take them to a homeless shelther. It'll rule out laziness if they do end up working for you. Remember that homeless people may have lost the will to live or to work by being out on the street for so long, and they lack anywhere to put their wages, so they need to be "wound up" before results come out. If you really care, you'll give it your best shot.
EDIT: I would choose the AH2 player for the pilot, the MSFS guy for the copilot and navigator, and the IL2 player for the engineer. You get the best of all worlds.
-Penguin
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I nominate Golfer or Eagl.
I wouldn't let Ded anywhere NEAR the controls because he'd do a bunch of unnecessary wild maneuvers just so he could listen to people puke. :D
Edit: I the extremely unlikely scenario I was on a commercial flight where the crew became incapacitated and there was nobody on the plane that was qualified or willing to try I'd give it a shot. I'd rather die trying than not.
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Eagl or Golfer? What about me? I could kill a plane load of innocent passengers just as easily at those guys!
Really though, we need Rock Hudson and don't call me Shirley!
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Golfer or Eagl would get us down safely.
Ded? MAYYYYYBEEEEEEE
You... you'd try doing barrel rolls in the silly thing :lol
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My airliner didn't have an autoland feature and I know with some certainty that I probably didn't kill anyone. Maybe.
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If the landing gear won't come down I'm your guy.
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Silats gear is down, but he still thinks your his guy.
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How would that be accomplished otherwise?
By landing it manually?
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If the landing gear won't come down I'm your guy.
:lol
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lol, no they don;t. The spitfire flight model and engine management have nothing to do with a 747. I would however select the AH BBS poster to land me since AH people seem to be experts in everything from global economics to brain surgery, so they could probably fly a 747 no problem.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
:cheers: Oz
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Auto land features have been around since the 60s or 70s. I remember reading an article a commercial airline pilot wrote some time back, describing what it was like to use it back in its infancy. Wish I knew where I had seen the article, it was pretty intense to read.
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Most of you cheeseheads have never landed in game or real life anyway.
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If there are trees anywhere near the runway We're all dead. :uhoh
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This hit me while reading another thread regarding rudder pedals. It went as follows.....
Which begs the question..... your on a plane and the pilot and co-pilot are incapacitated. You have a choice among three gamers to take the controls. One experienced in AH, one in M$FS, and one in IL2...... which would you choose?
Not a SAPP that's for sure!! You guys would never use or find the Landing Gear :old:
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Most of you cheeseheads have never landed in game or real life anyway.
and then quite a few of us have.
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Not a SAPP that's for sure!! You guys would never use or find the Landing Gear :old:
snicker
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I've found most every post funny so far..... get a bigger hook. :neener:
As for the homeless person... chances are he just doesn't want to work. He may want to be president of some corporation but was not wanting to start at the bottom. :D
Case in point.... guy under a bridge holding a sign, "will work for food". Several folks drive by and give him money for food. They do not want to hire him for anything as he is a stranger out on the street (security). I go by and tell him if he comes to my shop I'll give him a job where he can earn some money. My shop is just down the road within a couple of miles. He never shows up. This has happened on several occassions. Some folks consider this freedom. They have no bills and are free to go and do as they please. So which is this one your refering to?
:rofl case in point eh? I ll go ahead and call BS on the story that you waited there to witness several people give him money and that then you went up to him to offer him a job. :rofl wow, people are walking into my office to see what was so funny :rofl Every single person I ever had this argument with comes up with the same BS story :lol
In any case, your funny story does not prove anything. As I said, some are lazy some are not and wish they had the opportunities we did.
PS. Read the book "Fooled by randomness". It is a short story of a trader.
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choose the one that would follow the radio guy's instructions step by step and would'nt sit complaining about the ram that only you got the damage and all the other small plane guy got was an oil leak
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Most of you cheeseheads have never landed in game or real life anyway.
True, I hardly ever landed in AH anyway, didn't need to seeing as I keep getting shot down. I find landing in AH more tense than in real life.
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By landing it manually?
Really? :headscratch:
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By landing it manually?
Really? Sounds risky........
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Really? Sounds risky........
Eh, wasn't that the whole point of this thread? Meaning that who thinks he could land the plane. I simply pointed out that it wouldn't be necessary as long as someone would manage to contact ATC (provided that they would be within transmitting distance and not over big ocean for example). Then I'm sure they could get someone on the tower who could help in using the autopilot/navigation equipment. By turning the right couple knobs the aircraft would land itself.
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By turning the right couple knobs the aircraft would land itself.
IF the airplane is equipped with auto-land. IF you're able to program the autopilot for the approach.
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Eh, wasn't that the whole point of this thread? Meaning that who thinks he could land the plane. I simply pointed out that it wouldn't be necessary as long as someone would manage to contact ATC (provided that they would be within transmitting distance and not over big ocean for example). Then I'm sure they could get someone on the tower who could help in using the autopilot/navigation equipment. By turning the right couple knobs the aircraft would land itself.
So, how would it work if the radios were malfunctioning, or not tuned to the tower, or out of range? I was just interested in how or if the airlines have experienced pilots available for each airliner type at the airports.
Also, say this event happens at cruise altitude and there is an under cast cloud bank from horizon to horizon. How do you handle that?
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IF the airplane is equipped with auto-land. IF you're able to program the autopilot for the approach.
Modern airliners don't need to be landed manually in that type of situation.
I think virtually all commercial airliner jets have them.
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So, how would it work if the radios were malfunctioning, or not tuned to the tower, or out of range? I was just interested in how or if the airlines have experienced pilots available for each airliner type at the airports.
Also, say this event happens at cruise altitude and there is an under cast cloud bank from horizon to horizon. How do you handle that?
Or if the wing would come off... :)
Anyway, it is rather silly question overall. There are two pilots and they are eating food from different sources for a reason. :)
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So, how would it work if the radios were malfunctioning, or not tuned to the tower, or out of range? I was just interested in how or if the airlines have experienced pilots available for each airliner type at the airports.
Also, say this event happens at cruise altitude and there is an under cast cloud bank from horizon to horizon. How do you handle that?
There is a crisis room for each airline with at least one pilot for each aircraft type the airline operates on standby 24 hours a day at each airports tower for situations like this. They are there to be prepared for just such an eventuality, nay, inevitability that they will need to talk down an airliner full of passengers with no flying experience.
It's a snap. Rex Cramer duty, that is.
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I think virtually all commercial airliner jets have them.
Auto pilot and Autoland capability are quite different.
"Virtually all" is more like "a small percentage" of airliners have an autoland capability. Even if it the jet is capable the airline may not spec them out with those functions available due to both the increased acquisition cost and increased ongoing maintenance costs. Heck my former company didn't have a cost/benefit to going CAT II and training 2400 pilots on the systems they might use twice a year.
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I want an AH guy to auger in while inverted, stalling, on fire and bleeding. At least Ill go out with a smile on my face.
Edit: Of course I couldnt be the guy, because I would be too busy with every woman on the plane. :devil
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I want an AH guy to auger in while inverted, stalling, on fire and bleeding. At least Ill go out with a smile on my face.
If such things make you happy then feel free to look though the list of NTSB reports. I'm sure at least one of those people that died played AH at one point.
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Well, I geuss I got put in my place. I feel so ashamed of myself over this make believe scenario. Please accept my most heartfelt apologies, NOT.
You are an idiot MF
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:rofl case in point eh? I ll go ahead and call BS on the story that you waited there to witness several people give him money and that then you went up to him to offer him a job. :rofl wow, people are walking into my office to see what was so funny :rofl Every single person I ever had this argument with comes up with the same BS story :lol
In any case, your funny story does not prove anything. As I said, some are lazy some are not and wish they had the opportunities we did.
PS. Read the book "Fooled by randomness". It is a short story of a trader.
I was in line in traffic and your just wrong. I have done that more than once and none of the lazy turds come for a job... not one. They make tax free money from folks like you just giving it to them under a bridge. So while I am trying to get him off freeloading your steadily contributing to the freeloaders.
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Well, I geuss I got put in my place. I feel so ashamed of myself over this make believe scenario. Please accept my most heartfelt apologies, NOT.
You are an idiot MF
I know what you think about me, you know what I think about you so lets keep the names to yourself.
No normal person would say what you did. But what ever makes you happy. :)
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Edit: Of course I couldnt be the guy, because I would be too busy with every woman on the plane. :devil
"This could be the last chance I have to touch a woman, and you a man."
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Ah yes, name calling. Always good way to show your intellect and get your point across.
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Ah yes, name calling. Always good way to show your intellect and get your point across.
You you.... you umm gentleman. There :neener:
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Microsoft, I think it would be nice if they had a prior working knowledge of the flight computer so that instead of being talked down by the tower they could just do the same flight procedures a pilot would, minus the aircraft handling experience.
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Couple guys come to mind that would have little issue with this
* Golfer - since he's a Collins Primus baby and the FMS is of the same lineage on most main liners.
* Colombo since he drives big iron and used to drive a B-24 for a living
* Machfly because, well - I've taught him so he can.
* mySelf because I'm awesome
* Frenchy because the guy has a pair that drags and he could fly himself out of a Turkish potatohouse with 4 inches of ice on his wings, no AP, no GPS, a 1/2 working radio and still do a cat. III approach to an icy runway with nil breaking in a VW microbus with wings.
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* Machfly because, well - I've taught him so he can.
:banana:
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Ah yes, name calling. Always good way to show your intellect and get your point across.
shut it stoopit :neener:
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What a strange question. I would have to look the person in the eye regardless of his simulator training before I'd cast a vote on who lands the aircraft. I would want to be in the cockpit the entire time watching and listening. If I heard Golfers voice on the other end of the radio? my fear factor would decrease by 80%.(I'd feel like we had a chance, if we would only shut up and listen)
I would not ever want a computer in charge of taking off or landing, I want Golfer or Scully. I been stuck in holding patterns over Denver and Las Vegas due to the winds, I do not want a computer to land me. You start to run out of fuel and are forced to land, I swear the 737 was bobbing up and down 30 FT when we landed in Vegas, The pilot nailed it dead on. Upon landing I immediately ran to the Bar.
Let the computer fly from point A to point B. I want a qualified Pilot to take off and land.
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Those computers are getting pretty darned good nowadays, and if they keep getting better I don't see why the pilot should be anything more than a backup. The controls are already fly-by-wire, so if the computer breaks you're bagged either way.
-Penguin
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Those computers are getting pretty darned good nowadays, and if they keep getting better I don't see why the pilot should be anything more than a backup. The controls are already fly-by-wire, so if the computer breaks you're bagged either way.
-Penguin
Skynet :noid
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More like Autopilot; those planes don't come armed, either.
-Penguin
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Those computers are getting pretty darned good nowadays, and if they keep getting better I don't see why the pilot should be anything more than a backup. The controls are already fly-by-wire, so if the computer breaks you're bagged either way.
-Penguin
LOL! Those computers don't program themselves, guess who has to manage the FMS? Pilots!
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Those computers are getting pretty darned good nowadays, and if they keep getting better I don't see why the pilot should be anything more than a backup. The controls are already fly-by-wire, so if the computer breaks you're bagged either way.
-Penguin
Airliners are fly-by-wire these days?
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While its flattering to see some think a trained pilot with some experience would safely land an airplane there are probably a hundred if not more totally incompetent AH sticks you wouldn't trust on your virtual wing with far more real world experience than I. If I could pick anyone, I'd pick the AH pilot who has flown the distressed airplane in question and have the flight attendants pour me another drink because that's how I ride in airliners these days. Business class with booze.
Actually if I'm teleporting someone into the cockpit, why not just teleport myself out? That's a better plan altogether. (That's a better plan)
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Did you guys read anything about any recent solar activity that might wipe out a Aircrafts navigational features? I want a Human Pilot flying the Aircraft I'm in. Energised particles pass right through Golfers brain without hampering his electronics. I want Golfer in charge when I have to fly..
Enough said.......I'd rather be smacking Golfer around, other than backing him up. I would feel quite safe in his hands when flying.(only if he keeps me out of the Cockpit)
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Did you guys read anything about any recent solar activity that might wipe out a Aircrafts navigational features? I want a Human Pilot flying the Aircraft I'm in. Energised particles pass right through Golfers brain without hampering his electronics. I want Golfer in charge when I have to fly..
Enough said.......I'd rather be smacking Golfer around, other than backing him up. I would feel quite safe in his hands when flying.(only if he keeps me out of the Cockpit)
You're assuming I have a brain for the particles to pass through. Assume at your own risk.
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Not even gamma rays can get through five centimeters of lead. Just pack the computer in that and put it in the thickest part of the plane. Nothing gets in, nothing gets out. You end up with no net-weight gain because most of the cockpit can be removed. Pilots are surprisingly fragile creatures- they can get sick, make simple math errors, press the wrong button. That sort of stuff doesn't happen to computers. Computers never get bored, either. That's a big one because most of flying is letting the autopilot take you from place to place; if a pilot had to fly an airliner's course manually for eight hours straight he'd likely miss or drive himself nuts staring out across the clouds.
-Penguin
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While its flattering to see some think a trained pilot with some experience would safely land an airplane there are probably a hundred if not more totally incompetent AH sticks you wouldn't trust on your virtual wing with far more real world experience than I. If I could pick anyone, I'd pick the AH pilot who has flown the distressed airplane in question and have the flight attendants pour me another drink because that's how I ride in airliners these days. Business class with booze.
Actually if I'm teleporting someone into the cockpit, why not just teleport myself out? That's a better plan altogether. (That's a better plan)
:rofl
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That's a big one because most of flying is letting the autopilot take you from place to place; if a pilot had to fly an airliner's course manually for eight hours straight he'd likely miss or drive himself nuts staring out across the clouds.
I wish I had an autopilot. After eight hours flying, I do get bored, tired, hungry, thirsty and go nuts looking at clouds. I am fragile too and lousy at maths. So it's all true. But I never miss the destination. It's usually beneath me!
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Not even gamma rays can get through five centimeters of lead. Just pack the computer in that and put it in the thickest part of the plane. Nothing gets in, nothing gets out. You end up with no net-weight gain because most of the cockpit can be removed. Pilots are surprisingly fragile creatures- they can get sick, make simple math errors, press the wrong button. That sort of stuff doesn't happen to computers. Computers never get bored, either. That's a big one because most of flying is letting the autopilot take you from place to place; if a pilot had to fly an airliner's course manually for eight hours straight he'd likely miss or drive himself nuts staring out across the clouds.
-Penguin
Computer components fail on occasion. If they do and there are no pilots how are you going to compensate for that? How are you going to account for cooling when you computer is encased in lead?
Oh, by the way, are you a formally trained and licensed pilot?
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Is "imcompacitated" a combination of incompetence and incapacitated? :D
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Computer components fail on occasion. If they do and there are no pilots how are you going to compensate for that? How are you going to account for cooling when you computer is encased in lead?
Oh, by the way, are you a formally trained and licensed pilot?
No, and I never said that there would be no pilots. They would just do even less than they normally do, and act as a backup. While not on duty they could set the backup controls to 'simulation' and practice emergency maneuvers.
-Penguin
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Not even gamma rays can get through five centimeters of lead. Just pack the computer in that and put it in the thickest part of the plane. Nothing gets in, nothing gets out. You end up with no net-weight gain because most of the cockpit can be removed. Pilots are surprisingly fragile creatures- they can get sick, make simple math errors, press the wrong button. That sort of stuff doesn't happen to computers. Computers never get bored, either. That's a big one because most of flying is letting the autopilot take you from place to place; if a pilot had to fly an airliner's course manually for eight hours straight he'd likely miss or drive himself nuts staring out across the clouds.
-Penguin
So, if the most of the cockpit is removed for your zero net weight gain because of the lead surrounding your computer, where are your pilots going to be located? Why even have pilots if your computer is so good?
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No, and I never said that there would be no pilots. They would just do even less than they normally do, and act as a backup. While not on duty they could set the backup controls to 'simulation' and practice emergency maneuvers.
-Penguin
14 CFR part 91.3 — Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command.
(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.
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No, and I never said that there would be no pilots. They would just do even less than they normally do, and act as a backup. While not on duty they could set the backup controls to 'simulation' and practice emergency maneuvers.
-Penguin
So, it is assumed that you are not a pilot but, have a vivid imagination. Tupac, on the other hand is a pilot, and states it succinctly "Pilot in Command". Computers don't command the aircraft, the pilot does. The pilot is there to clean up the mess and maintain aircraft control when the computer takes a random dump and becomes nothing more than dead weight on an other wise normally operating aircraft.
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That's what I want, too. I don't see where I wasn't clear about that. The pilots would have a nice little setup like we do in AH2: HOTAS and some tablet MFD's for instrumentation. The space would still be there, it would just be smaller due to the shielding and the emergency manual controls would be tucked away but plugged in.
-Penguin
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The biggest issue I could think of is finding all the required info... altimeter and such. I figured here we'd see some interesting and entertaining posts. Thanks Gents!!
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What if no one has fixed the hole where the original pilot/co-pilot got sucked out of? I think my choice would be whoever weighs the most.
Same... but because he would get stuck on the way out, and would plug the hole :D
Oh yeah, and which one will know how to handle the rapid decompression?
Just apply flaps, idle thrust (if in a turbojet) and push the nose over. :D
Seriously though, either MSFS or AH. AH would only be handling comms, of course :lol
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The correct answer is you get a fast helicopter and rapel Chuck Heston into the open cockpit midair. This was proven in Airport '75.
(http://media.disastermovieworld.com/2009/03/airport75_01.jpg)
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The correct answer is you get a fast helicopter and rapel Chuck Heston into the open cockpit midair. This was proven in Airport '75.
(http://media.disastermovieworld.com/2009/03/airport75_01.jpg)
didn't the first guy that tried it miss the hole and die?
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That's why you have to send Chuck Heston. Chuck Norris might be a suitable alternative. But it definitely requires a Chuck. :D
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computer takes a random dump
qft
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That's a big one because most of flying is letting the autopilot take you from place to place; if a pilot had to fly an airliner's course manually for eight hours straight he'd likely miss or drive himself nuts staring out across the clouds.
I have never, ever been bored while flying an airplane.
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That's a big one because most of flying is letting the autopilot take you from place to place
-Penguin
I'm a 400 hour instrument rated private pilot and I have about .7 hours with an autopilot - only because it was part of my high performance/complex checkout.
I have never, ever been bored while flying an airplane.
QFT
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I have yet to be bored either. I've nowhere near Colombo's time I'm sure, or even Tupac's but I am a sky captain of tomorrow.
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No, no, not big enough. I'm talking about the huge airliners that do 8+ hour flights.
-Penguin
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to this day, i think that is one of the funniest movies i've ever seen.
You need to see the movie they spoofed to make it then!!!
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No, no, not big enough. I'm talking about the huge airliners that do 8+ hour flights.
-Penguin
I do 8+ hour flights.
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Also keep in mind commercial pilots cant fly for more than 8 hours at a time - they have multiple crew. I have a friend who flies 777s for United and IIRC they have 3 pilots and 3 FOs on a 14 hour flight from Chicago to Beijing.
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Is most of it monitoring the auto-pilot?
-Penguin
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Is most of it monitoring the auto-pilot?
-Penguin
most of what?
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Those computers are getting pretty darned good nowadays
Yeah, they are not what they used to be when first saw one :rofl
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Is most of it monitoring the auto-pilot?
-Penguin
No, it's monitoring the aircraft, i.e. maintaining aircraft control.
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Is most of it monitoring the auto-pilot?
-Penguin
I have a friend who's certified to fly just about everything with fixed wings,the 2 planes he's not certified in are next on his schedules.
While teasing him that he was only along for the ride and to say,"hello this is your capt'n speaking." He told me that the auto pilot/auto landing was really stupid! sure it will follow a glide path but it wont correct for a cross wind,slippery RW and numerous other "surprises".
So peng,feel free to be the first to fly in any plane that uses autopilot instead of a real pilot,myself if it flies high enough to need oxygen then I'll stay on the ground.
:salute
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I stand corrected. Well done gentlemen, I cede the point.
-Penguin
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He told me that the auto pilot/auto landing was really stupid! sure it will follow a glide path but it wont correct for a cross wind,slippery RW and numerous other "surprises".
Well... that's just not true. Modern auto-landing systems have no issues at all with crosswinds. As for a slippery runway the anti-skid system handles that quite nicely.
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I have a friend who's certified to fly just about everything with fixed wings,the 2 planes he's not certified in are next on his schedules.
While teasing him that he was only along for the ride and to say,"hello this is your capt'n speaking." He told me that the auto pilot/auto landing was really stupid! sure it will follow a glide path but it wont correct for a cross wind,slippery RW and numerous other "surprises".
So peng,feel free to be the first to fly in any plane that uses autopilot instead of a real pilot,myself if it flies high enough to need oxygen then I'll stay on the ground.
:salute
:headscratch: What does he fly?
The autopilot on my 42 will fly a perfect approach with the wind correction. And that's a GA aircraft.
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I was only repeating what I was told,maybe he dumbed it down for me or maybe he was PO'd because I was teasing him saying that modern planes dont need pilots and he was just there to make the passengers feel safe.
I was told that the auto pilot didnt take everything into consideration,maybe he said gusting winds,I know for sure he said slippery RW's were a problem and a couple others things I dont recall.
Either way until an auto pilot can think on it's feet,I'd prefer to have a human fly me around thank you very much!
:salute
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I was only repeating what I was told,maybe he dumbed it down for me or maybe he was PO'd because I was teasing him saying that modern planes dont need pilots and he was just there to make the passengers feel safe.
I was told that the auto pilot didnt take everything into consideration,maybe he said gusting winds,I know for sure he said slippery RW's were a problem and a couple others things I dont recall.
Either way until an auto pilot can think on it's feet,I'd prefer to have a human fly me around thank you very much!
:salute
Perhaps.
The thing is that even if you have the autopilot that will be able to do everything you still need to program the autopilot. And it's not just an on/off switch. It might not be difficult pressing a few buttons but you really need to know which buttons to press.
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The purpose of an auto pilot is to reduce pilot work load and fatigue. Sometimes the auto land feature lands better than the pilot, sometimes not.
A perfectly flown autopilot approach to an auto land is a great option to have. But, in a stiff cross wind, which is usually is accompanied by gusts, the rubber has to meet the runway at some point. Doing so in a crab results in an uncomfortable event. The real life pilots will, of course, know and embrace an age old Chinese landing technique; "One Wing Low" that normally occurs at the end of any perfectly flown approach in crosswinds, regardless if George, the auto pilot, flew it or it was hand flown, because it comes down to the skills of the pilot.
That is, unless auto pilot/auto land technology has advanced to the point that George has the skill to lower the upwind wing, apply opposite rudder, adjust power, and flair to a perfectly smooth touchdown with the fuselage aligned with the runway centerline; all at just the right time.
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Cat3c auto land isn't available at all airports and not every aircrew will be qualified in them due to the frequency of use (or lack thereof). GA does not have an auto land autopilot, though a parachute is a close qualifier. Our APs do a pretty good job of getting us through and reducing workload as needed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeVmUNdnyBQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeVmUNdnyBQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player)
Attached is a normal hard ifr approach one is expected to be capable of flying by hand without automated assistance. Saturday I was picking a client up from Martha's Vinyard and when it was Vfr 10 minutes before, it went down to 1/2 and snow. Someone that isn't a differences engine needs to make the judgment call. That's why you are there.
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Couple guys come to mind that would have little issue with this
* Golfer - since he's a Collins Primus baby and the FMS is of the same lineage on most main liners.
* Colombo since he drives big iron and used to drive a B-24 for a living
* Machfly because, well - I've taught him so he can.
* mySelf because I'm awesome
* Frenchy because the guy has a pair that drags and he could fly himself out of a Turkish potatohouse with 4 inches of ice on his wings, no AP, no GPS, a 1/2 working radio and still do a cat. III approach to an icy runway with nil breaking in a VW microbus with wings.
:rofl Thx for the back stroking, but I'm not the only cargo pilot that does that for a living ... by far :joystick:
Now if I might contribute to the thread, I had a student in my other life that claimed he had 1,200H+ of Microsoft Flight Simulator. He did very good with the initial flight pitch/bank/attitude/altitude control actually. When coming for landing as he was getting closer and closer to the runway he kept over correcting to the point where he would have lost control of the plane. When I asked for the controls he didn't want to give them back and I had to physically hit him to let go and land the plane.
I guess the moral of the story is don't be fooled in thinking because you are a sim ace you'll save the day. The pressure/stress of having to do it in real life might get the best of you. :old: As far as which plane, I think jet airliners and cessna type trainers would be 'ok', light twins and definitely turboprops would seriously lower the chances of success.
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Off topic but, I've been flying in my first cessna type aircraft (182S) since Monday after spending all my previous time in piper cherokees and seminoles. Whoa, what a difference. Sinks like a rock so power off 180's are fun, but I was struggling to find a power setting for final approach on normal/short/soft landings. Today was better. My other problem has been that the rudders on this plane seem ridiculously light. I'm over controlling them like no other, but improving. Although I accidentally caused a tiny skid yesterday. Definately caught my attention though.
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Cherokees are easier to land safely, cessnas are easier to land well. Also keep in mind your nose gear isn't directly connected to the rudders like in a cherokee, so if you touch down with a bit of rudder in a slip the plane wont veer.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj5fs8-MF9g
Here I had lots of rudder in to keep it pointed straight, and the plane didnt veer when I touched down. As long as you have rudder authority, you have the ability to land. Crosswinds be damned!
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Rog, nice landing.
I've been doing this in calm or <5 cross wind situations though. I did it again just a bit ago, just minor (couple of degree yaw and brief screech noise, lasts only 1-2 seconds). I hadn't had this problem before now, and its not during touchdown its 2-3 seconds after that it starts. Has me a bit worried that I'll get a major one going. Crosswind correction in on the one that required it and heels on the floor, not near the brakes. I'm thinking maybe a too abrupt correction as I'm trying maintain centerline.
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Do you mean like skidding laterally across the runway with the tires screeching?
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Yeah somewhat, sorry if I wasn't clear. The problem is on the roll out. 2-3 seconds after touchdown. The nose moves slightly left and the tires screech a bit. I've maintained a straight track, although I'm sure I wouldn't if I had let it progress any farther.
Another thought I had was that I was releasing back pressure too rapidly around that time and putting too much weight on the nose wheel, making it a little to effective. This is by far the heaviest single I've flown which could be showing my poor technique a lot better than a Cherokee.
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The second bit may be it. I usually let the nose come down on its own, and be sure when you put your feet on the brakes the pressure is even. All the Cessnas I've flown besides the 210 had hyper sensitive brakes.
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This hit me while reading another thread regarding rudder pedals. It went as follows.....
Which begs the question..... your on a plane and the pilot and co-pilot are incapacitated. You have a choice among three gamers to take the controls. One experienced in AH, one in M$FS, and one in IL2...... which would you choose?
When I flew for Eastern, we didn’t have flight attendants , we had stewardesses. You would be hard pressed to find stewardesses older then 25 yo, they were all single, very tall, slim, very pretty. No Master’s or Doctorial thesis among their discussions.
There were a few tests conducted by Eastern Airlines back in the day when they made what seemed like daily trips to Cuba at the request of the passenger holding the gun.
There were several articles written in Flying and Plane and Pilot on the subject. I know that Eastern was very concerned and actually had for a while a number of pilots flying as passengers, not in uniform on a lot of the New York to Miami flights. They also did tests in the Phase III flight simulators that were available at the time. The aircraft was set up in a cruise flight level and the civilian was led to the cockpit door and told to take over . Most couldn’t figure out how to adjust the seat and while attempting to get seated disengaged the autopilot. Things went down hill from there. A few did figure it out , but had a really hard time figuring out where the radios were. And most were not able to make contact with ATC. This was in a time before inflight phones or Cell phones.
On my annual check ride I invited my now wife, then girl friend down to Miami for the week. Kathleen was a stewardess had been on a flight deck many times, but had no real flying experience. One of the check pilots put her in a 707 Phase III simulator in the typical hijack scenario. FL 280, Autopilot engaged, flying a normal route segment. The only difference was they put her in the seat, showed her how to adjust the seat, and put a head set on her and showed her the push to talk switch worked.
I was really surprised . After a few practice turns and a little basic airwork, she flew a pretty decent approach, they set the weather to 1000fl 5 miles, light rain, with gusts of 18, and night. She flew the ILS at KEWR for 22R . It was a little fast, a little long and far from the center line, but she got it down and stopped on the runway. So the lesson learned was if they could be communicated with and had some knowledge available of how the seat works and where the radio stack is and what button to push to talk. They had a chance. By the way , she landed it 3 out of 5 times. The 3rd and 5th approaches were not survivable.
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I honestly think I could land a 747...
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When I flew for Eastern, we didn’t have flight attendants , we had stewardesses. You would be hard pressed to find stewardesses older then 25 yo, they were all single, very tall, slim, very pretty. No Master’s or Doctorial thesis among their discussions.
There were a few tests conducted by Eastern Airlines back in the day when they made what seemed like daily trips to Cuba at the request of the passenger holding the gun.
There were several articles written in Flying and Plane and Pilot on the subject. I know that Eastern was very concerned and actually had for a while a number of pilots flying as passengers, not in uniform on a lot of the New York to Miami flights. They also did tests in the Phase III flight simulators that were available at the time. The aircraft was set up in a cruise flight level and the civilian was led to the cockpit door and told to take over . Most couldn’t figure out how to adjust the seat and while attempting to get seated disengaged the autopilot. Things went down hill from there. A few did figure it out , but had a really hard time figuring out where the radios were. And most were not able to make contact with ATC. This was in a time before inflight phones or Cell phones.
On my annual check ride I invited my now wife, then girl friend down to Miami for the week. Kathleen was a stewardess had been on a flight deck many times, but had no real flying experience. One of the check pilots put her in a 707 Phase III simulator in the typical hijack scenario. FL 280, Autopilot engaged, flying a normal route segment. The only difference was they put her in the seat, showed her how to adjust the seat, and put a head set on her and showed her the push to talk switch worked.
I was really surprised . After a few practice turns and a little basic airwork, she flew a pretty decent approach, they set the weather to 1000fl 5 miles, light rain, with gusts of 18, and night. She flew the ILS at KEWR for 22R . It was a little fast, a little long and far from the center line, but she got it down and stopped on the runway. So the lesson learned was if they could be communicated with and had some knowledge available of how the seat works and where the radio stack is and what button to push to talk. They had a chance. By the way , she landed it 3 out of 5 times. The 3rd and 5th approaches were not survivable.
Great read.
One hopes to never be put in that situation. To not have any confidence would remove that person from the list, but on the other hand someone with too much confidence would be removed from that list also. That is my opinion. Case in point the guy landing and over correcting in previous posts. He did not want to relinquish the controls when asked. He was probably not going to meet mother earth in a kindly fashion. His pride/ego was willing to chance the safety of the craft and it's occupants.
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Perhaps.
It might not be difficult pressing a few buttons but you really need to know which buttons to press.
10 years of college required, I am guessing. There must be like 1,000s of buttons :O
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10 years of college required, I am guessing. There must be like 1,000s of buttons :O
Then you graduate to switches :D
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His pride/ego was willing to chance the safety of the craft and it's occupants.
In Frenchys story I doubt that's the case. It's a matter of how the brain works. That student in question would have been so focused on what he was doing that he stopped reacting to verbal stimuli and needed something that packed a little more punch. He just reached his task saturation point with whatever was in his head he couldn't actually hear and gets tunnel vision on this one thing which shuts you down from the world around you.
Pride and ego would have had nothing to do with it. Anyone who has instructed has seen something like that happen. While I never personally had to smack a student there were several times they would shut down because they physically couldn't take anymore and compartmentalized so much verbal instructions (mine or a controllers) didn't register.
Like Frenchy I found a common thread was they were "better" than average students. The kind you give more things to sooner than you would an average student. Sometimes it's because they need a check on their abilities so you load em up till they cry uncle (using real world scenarios) and take a little bite of humble pie. Others it's because you gave them more than candle by mistake because you overestimated what they should do. As an instructor you shouldn't let your guard down in that fashion but it does happen and it turns into a learning experience for both parties.
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Good info... I can see that too. I read the wrong thing into it. Thanks for clarifying.
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It happens at the professional level too. I flew as a contractor in an awkward situation I'll spare the details about but it was with this company's notorious weakest FO. Well they needed this trip to go and the CP called asking to save the day on short notice. Having just been laid off from my full time job I was available and I took it before a full disclosure of what was going on and what would make it awkward.
-The airplane would be flown to the pax pickup airport by two ordinarily weak FOs. Being a nice day the CP figured they could find this large airport 80 miles from home base in a jet.
-The two pilots hated each other.
-The weakest of the two would ride in the back as a flight attendant for the passenger leg.
-The really freaking weak pilot would be assigned as the Captain on paper because I wasn't type rated in this airplane.
-I was to be in charge of the flight despite no legal authority whatsoever. I was also asked to make sure "nothing happened" which I can only assume meant "don't sweet crash."
I was informed of this when I was already on the way ro the airport. Oh boy...this is going to go well.
I run the flight plans and wait for the airplane to arrive. When it does I see the two pilots yelling at each other as they shut down the airplane. Goodie.
I get a GPU plugged in and start getting ready for the flight. As the avionics are powering up the "Captain" shows me the error they had on the way in with the MFD not working and showing the overlay of the route entered into the FMS. There is a welcome screen and a flashing "OK" icon next to a button. I reached up and pressed this button and voila...moving map. Amazed, they asked what I had done to make it work because it wouldn't work on the way down. Mind you, this individual had flown this specific serial number airframe for roughly 1000 hours at this point and I taught them to hit "OK" on the screen. Oh joy...
The whole thing just went downhill from there and concluded with an angry phone call a couple days later from the owner of the management company why I'd stolen the rental car. Not only did I return the rental car, I mistakenly left my sunglasses in it after that long day so I was out $100 from my $500 daily rate right away.
Living the dream.
<edit>
Duh, forgot why I started the story.
On the empty flight (secretary/pilot in the back) back to their home base, clear and a million, with some very prominent landmarks to show where you are the weak pilot was at the controls. This particular airport is very easy to see, this person has been based there for several years and has around 70 miles of clear visibility.
They couldn't find the airport, required vectors to the ILS, ham fist flew the airplane when the autopilot was finally disconnected and flared like a Naval Aviator landing on a carrier. (They didn't)
During the approach they were so fixated they said they didn't hear my coaching to ease the power off and flare. Flare. FLARE. FLARE!!!!!!!! As we tried to drive the gear struts through the wings.
And, I kid you not, on the taxi in turned to me with a smile and solicited approval for their well flown approach. I stopped being nice and pretending I liked them right about then. Post flighted, took a copy of the flight log and drove back to the airport where my truck was parked.
Ugh.
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Scary stuff lol
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:rofl :rofl great story
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As long as you have rudder authority, you have the ability to land. Crosswinds be damned!
As long as you have enough authority using the combination of the controls available, you have the ability to land.
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Quote from: Tupac
As long as you have rudder authority, you have the ability to land. Crosswinds be damned!
As long as you have enough authority using the combination of the controls available, you have the ability to land.
neither of these statements are correct.
The limit for a crosswind landing is the airplane's demonstrated crosswind capability, which is published in the pilots operating handbook (POH).
To operate outside of the POH is not an option according to the FAA.
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That's wrong.
Demonstrated crosswind is just that, demonstrated. It is NOT a limitation per any FAR. It can be made a limitation by the manufacturer but a 15 knot demonstrated crosswind component in a transport jet is pretty useless.
What can be limiting is a company GOM/FOM which may (not shall or must, just may) make it a limitation for that company only.
I don't know how Easterns books were written but using the published demonstrated crosswind component as a limitation is not a requirement.
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Golfer said it the way I've always read/heard about it.
FWIW, I did much better today. Had a little better flare, touching down a couple of knots slower, keeping that back pressure in, no problems. Even solo in wind conditions that tower was just calling "all directions" with gusts.
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Eastern never flew 707s either but I didn't say anything about that detail of the story.
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miss fired
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Oops post
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Double post
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Triple oops
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That's wrong.
Demonstrated crosswind is just that, demonstrated. It is NOT a limitation per any FAR. It can be made a limitation by the manufacturer but a 15 knot demonstrated crosswind component in a transport jet is pretty useless.
What can be limiting is a company GOM/FOM which may (not shall or must, just may) make it a limitation for that company only.
I don't know how Easterns books were written but using the published demonstrated crosswind component as a limitation is not a requirement.
The limit for a crosswind landing is the airplane's demonstrated crosswind capability, which is published in the pilots operating handbook (POH).
I’ll stand by that statement. I was responding to what ICEPAC and TUPAC had stated.
about having enough rudder authority , has nothing to do with authority it’s the result of a vector calculation performed and then flown by a factory test pilot for the inclusion in the POH. Is it a limit? It’s not a recommendation , it’s a demonstrated limit as a result of a calculation.
I witnessed an aircraft operating under Part 91 run off a runway during a cross wind training session, prang a wing and do damage to another aircraft. The final outcome did not go well for the instructor involved. The FAA found pilot error and keep pointing out to him that the cross wind component for that flight exceeded the Cross Wind component demonstrated in the POH for the aircraft used for training. The flight school let him go.
In that case, I’d say it was a limit.
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It has nothing to do with a vector calculation.
The demonstrated crosswind component is what the test pilots encountered during the certification process and handled without any unusual flying skill.
Should we talk about how Eastern never operated 707s next?
Even if you were talking about 720s they operated in the late 60s, which you would have said, the most fidelity any of the sims back then would have been a camera hovering around a picture of a miniature airport. No light rain, etc as you described.
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Eastern never flew 707s either but I didn't say anything about that detail of the story.
your correct, Eastern contracted out their training at times. They did training for several different lines, TWA, Eastern, Allegany and a few others.
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Do you know a Jim Beekman, trav?
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Do you know a Jim Beekman, trav?
Not that I recall, I left as a result of the 73 Oil Embargo. After being out for 18 months, I decided I had to get a real job. I had finished school and picked up a degree in Computer Science. I did fly with a Jim Beam, Ron Chadwick, and a Harry Sparrow. You know any of them. They all went back after the recall and Harry finally retired just before the end. Everyone else that went back got screwed big time. Beam is dead, Cancer, Chadwick works in landscapping.
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The second bit may be it. I usually let the nose come down on its own, and be sure when you put your feet on the brakes the pressure is even. All the Cessnas I've flown besides the 210 had hyper sensitive brakes.
Tordon, Tupac I think it's good airmanship to 'land' the nose wheel, but that's just my experience, but I witnessed many pilots that don't. I say that because I flew with Metro guys that do a fantastic main wheel landing then just drop the nose hard on the ground then jump on the beta ... you feel all the weight transfered on the nose wheel ... and man :pray that can't be good for that nose strut.
I usually touch main, hit the beta, land the nose wheel and maintain as much back pressure as possible till the elevator effectiveness dies around 50 kts. You really don't feel the nose sink like it's trying to go thru the ground. But that's me in this plane, and also the 402s and other bug smashers. Maybe jets you don't care, can't afford to do it.
As far as crosswind, we have no Ops Specs limits as far as Xwind, we do have 10 kts tailwind. And thank God, those Idaho airports get hammered. Xwind landing on a dry runway is not too hard because we have a very responsive differential power/beta to keep the plane in check. When the runway is iced up it's even easier, you can land with the crap as long as your 'momentum' is lined up with the runway, then you manage with differential beta.
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The limit for a crosswind landing is the airplane's demonstrated crosswind capability, which is published in the pilots operating handbook (POH).
I'm with Golfer on this one. The demonstrated crosswind capability is one thing. The actual crosswind component is quite another. The aircraft I fly has a demonstrated crosswind component of 15 knots. In reality the actual crosswind component is about 22 knots. It could be higher but that is the point I ran out of control authority and it got to be lots of fun.
You really have to remember is that the manual is partly the limit the test pilot flew it too and partly the limit the lawyers allow it to be.
Before you condemm me as a maniac pilot, remember this. I know the airplane and with 800 hours on the thing and I had the option of a go around right up to flare. If it felt bad I was gone to the nearest alternate. But for the most part I never left the ground in the first place.
So dont get carried away believing the manual or the FAA.
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Triple oops
*snickers and points
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Every landing I make is essentially a soft field landing. I hold the yoke all the way back until the nose wheel settles down.
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Hello, down there? It's us, up here? Down there? Hello? Hello?
Let go of the button you moron! Let go!
Anyone remember those lines?
-Penguin
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Golfer is right (not that he needed to hear it from me to know) the maximum demonstrated crosswind component is as golfer said, just a demonstration. I've landed my skyhawk with more than double the demonstrated xwind component.
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My comment earlier was a response to the "rudder authority" quip earlier in the thread.
Rudder authority alone does not determine maximum crosswind component of an airplane by itself.
I was also talking about the physics of landing and not regulations and basic physics understanding has served me well flying since 1983.
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He fly's, he drives, he builds... family in the CIA and Navy intel on Dogfights.
Is there anything in existance your not in some way at the forefront of icepac?
:banana:
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Sure........got to crawl in a B29, sit in a P51 mustang, witness a B2 flybay (twice), hang out with team audi's Lemans team, and drive fast cars on the space shuttle landing facility two days ago.
I've spent most of my life moving myself and my career toward what I enjoy and am now reaping the benefits.
Sitting on the couch watching reruns of "Absolutely Fabulous" won't get you there........it requires a lifetime of working as well as cultivating connections.