Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Lusche on November 02, 2017, 10:30:48 AM
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Now that tour 213 is finished (and thus the only full tour in which the M3had its troops removed), we can take a look at how it affected captures:
(https://i.imgur.com/XWsfq9A.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/OaCAs56.jpg)
As you can see, the results are much less dramatic that some players tried to make us believe at the beginning.
And yes, I have abandoned my AH stats thread, because it makes no sense featuring a thread with hundreds of "your link is no longer available". So I will just go back to post stuff here and there again.
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I want to know what the decrease in use of the M3 was during the tour compared to when they could carry troops.....From the amount of them I saw I would say they are still the most used GV in the game.
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.From the amount of them I saw I would say they are still the most used GV in the game.
By sorties, I am utterly convinced it is. But only HTC could post the actual sortie data :old:
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I'd like to think that HTC could mix up the involvement of troops a bit more. Vary the amount of troops that can be carried. Maybe introduce a truck that can go 50 mph and carry 10 troops. Have the M3 carry 10 troops with the .50 HMG, but obviously it is slower (no change there). Give the SdKfz a broader and more useful role (not sure). The jeep... keep as is. Eetc etc.
Just not enough options, imo.
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I know it does not reflect sortie information, but the M3 still had 1466 deaths in October vs 4552 deaths in September. If you consider that the M3 could potentially "land" in town, 1466 is a lot of usage for a vehicle that just delivers supplies.
The German halftrack went from 276 to 2562 deaths from September to October. Comparing the increase in sorties of the German halftrack to the M3 decline, the difference is about 1990, very close to the deaths the M3 had in October (again, the difference could be affected by landing out in town).
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Here is the stats of the M3
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=390150.0;attach=28686)
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So an overall slight increase in usage for C47 and Jeeps because people couldn't bring themselves to use the SDK... that showed a pretty good jump, giving a gauge on how much M3's are actually used for troops... and so now we know that 50% of all M3 missions are in the tank killer roll! :devil :bolt:
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Here is the stats of the M3
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=390150.0;attach=28686)
.... :uhoh
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfBa4t3UYAAaPrs.jpg:large)
Or am I on the wrong track? :devil
How did your experiment turn out? Conclusions everyone?
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The SDK needs a turbo charger :D :D :D
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We need a faster supply carrier so the M3 doesn't get used so much?
Wiley.
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We need a faster supply carrier so the M3 doesn't get used so much?
Au contraire. We may need a slower one *looks at SdKfz* :noid
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Au contraire. We may need a slower one *looks at SdKfz* :noid
This! And maybe.....just maybe...people will actually defend a base instead of a giant mass of supply carriers.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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We need a faster supply carrier so the M3 doesn't get used so much?
Wiley.
NOT a good joke. :D
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A good test for say December, add a GMC CCKW to the vehicle inventory and only "allow it" to run field supplies. It's a softer target than an M3, SdK or LVT. It might give a better view on just how much players want to run supplies to win a fight versus fight to win a fight.
https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/cargo-truck-3d-model/807560
https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3dsmax-gmc-cckw-cargo-truck/747368
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Here is the stats of the M3
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=390150.0;attach=28686)
Hi-tech, don't know if you saw Lusche's idea from the other thread but disabling Field supply in the M3 and making the 251 the only ground vehicle that can resupply seems like a great way to balance the game and also get a hangar queen more use.
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Snailman, this should have been put in your Mega-thread.
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Perk the M3 one point for speed.
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.... :uhoh
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfBa4t3UYAAaPrs.jpg:large)
Or am I on the wrong track? :devil
How did your experiment turn out? Conclusions everyone?
We can always use new pilots.
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Snailman, this should have been put in your Mega-thread.
You missed my statement on that thread in my initial posting :old:
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Here is the stats of the M3
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=390150.0;attach=28686)
Lusche, unless I am mistaken, that was a short across your statistical bow. I think you have some competition! :devil
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Hi-tech, don't know if you saw Lusche's idea from the other thread but disabling Field supply in the M3 and making the 251 the only ground vehicle that can resupply seems like a great way to balance the game and also get a hangar queen more use.
how bout ok as long as you add field sups to the Jeep :devil or maybe put a trailer hitch on the Jeep so I can load field sups on a trailer that be fun :banana: I mean I'm just throwing in my 2 cents as long as you apparently ask twenty times for something you get your way I'll make this my first request.. More to follow
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so if I am reading this right roughly 2/3rds of all M3 runs are resupply and not troops? That is a crazy amount of sorties that is totally un-balancing the capture the flag gameplay! :old:
Needs to be nerfed forthwith!
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Lusche, unless I am mistaken, that was a short across your statistical bow. I think you have some competition! :devil
(https://media.makeameme.org/created/i-dont-think-fkpa6m.jpg)
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Couple more months of data gathering maybe we'll get a nice new year's surprise! :cheers:
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how bout ok as long as you add field sups to the Jeep :devil or maybe put a trailer hitch on the Jeep so I can load field sups on a trailer that be fun :banana: I mean I'm just throwing in my 2 cents as long as you apparently ask twenty times for something you get your way I'll make this my first request.. More to follow
It feels good to have been saying something for years and had so many of you say I'm just whining or Im wrong....then to be absolutely right in the end...hopefully there is no question in HTC mind about something needing to change with it now and I think Snail's idea will work for everyone.
Yesterday I wish I streamed 2 base captures the nights had right in a row...one with a spawn from another field and one without....the fight over the one without was what the game should be...we had to kill whirbs in town and around the spawn while enemy fighters upped....the other was killing M3s over and over at the spawn until our troops came in...both were 8 kill sortie for me...which one do you think I had more fun with?
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It feels good to have been saying something for years and had so many of you say I'm just whining or Im wrong....then to be absolutely right in the end...hopefully there is no question in HTC mind about something needing to change with it now and I think Snail's idea will work for everyone.
Yesterday I wish I streamed 2 base captures the nights had right in a row...one with a spawn from another field and one without....the fight over the one without was what the game should be...we had to kill whirbs in town and around the spawn while enemy fighters upped....the other was killing M3s over and over at the spawn until our troops came in...both were 8 kill sortie for me...which one do you think I had more fun with?
It's OK Junky, it seems to be the way it goes.....
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/3c/3c76b56343021bdc1549a130fe1d995ea26bd0fc53fe009cac25a9008bb27c97.jpg)
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It feels good to have been saying something for years and had so many of you say I'm just whining or Im wrong....then to be absolutely right in the end...hopefully there is no question in HTC mind about something needing to change with it now and I think Snail's idea will work for everyone.
Genuinely curious, what precisely have you been vindicated on? We now know that about 2/3 of M3 sorties were running supplies. That means they likely accounted for around 22% (give or take) of total GV sorties over the course of the month.
What exactly does that do to support your point that M3 resupply is bad for the game, and how exactly does it recommend the Snail's idea?
All I get out of it is, "Yup. The M3 sure does get used a lot. So does the T34."
Wiley.
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This! And maybe.....just maybe...people will actually defend a base instead of a giant mass of supply carriers.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Won't work. The hordes shut down the base anyway, so your back to where you started. :airplane:
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Here is the stats of the M3
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=390150.0;attach=28686)
Boom.
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Won't work. The hordes shut down the base anyway, so your back to where you started. :airplane:
We only have one base each? Last I checked you could lift from the next base over and come in to defend with alt.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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We only have one base each? Last I checked you could lift from the next base over and come in to defend with alt.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Oh I forgot, silly me.
In the mean time the base is captured. The Horde wins again. No thank you. :bhead
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Oh I forgot, silly me.
In the mean time the base is captured. The Horde wins again. No thank you. :bhead
While you're correct if you happen to log on and they're mid-capture, in my experience if you pay attention you can see them lift and head for the next field they're hording, and that usually gives you enough time to get there to have an impact on the fight.
For some reason many people don't look at what the enemy is doing beyond looking at your own fields to see which ones are flashing. Most base take attempts are telegraphed for 5-10 minutes before they move into friendly airspace. Even when it's called out on channel people don't react until it's in their dar. Then they wonder why the enemy is higher than them when they lifted from the field to attempt to defend.
Wiley.
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Genuinely curious, what precisely have you been vindicated on? We now know that about 2/3 of M3 sorties were running supplies. That means they likely accounted for around 22% (give or take) of total GV sorties over the course of the month.
This tells me that 1 in 5 GVers is engaged in non-combat activities. That's significant.
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Genuinely curious, what precisely have you been vindicated on? We now know that about 2/3 of M3 sorties were running supplies. That means they likely accounted for around 22% (give or take) of total GV sorties over the course of the month.
What exactly does that do to support your point that M3 resupply is bad for the game, and how exactly does it recommend the Snail's idea?
All I get out of it is, "Yup. The M3 sure does get used a lot. So does the T34."
Wiley.
What i get out of it, is the gameboard needs to appear to have action to attract new players.. and at this rate keep its current ones. You arent going to get folks to pay 15 bucks monthly without some intense action.
Resupplying a base is.. well... not action
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This tells me that 1 in 5 GVers is engaged in non-combat activities. That's significant.
You're assuming they're running supplies and not running anti-tank loadouts! :old:
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You're assuming they're running supplies and not running anti-tank loadouts! :old:
Which he is safe to assume. M3s sporting the howitzer loadout are very rare. Even a couple of hundred sorties per tour would surpise me a lot.
It's a different thing with M3s carrying GV supplies, though I see mostly Jeeps in that role these days.
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This tells me that 1 in 5 GVers is engaged in non-combat activities. That's significant.
It is, but what is the acceptable range? We've got a number in a vacuum. None of us have the data to say what percentages things were at in the good old days when things were supposedly awesome. For all we know, it used to be 1 in 6, or 1 in 4.
But people are sure drawing conclusions from it based on their own opinions.
And what I REALLY don't understand is how slowing down resupply by moving it to the SDK is going to accomplish anything other than having people either spend more time, or get more people in resupply vehicles to achieve the same effect, or simply not bothering because once the horde is there, they just move on to the next base.
Wiley.
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And what I REALLY don't understand is how slowing down resupply by moving it to the SDK is going to accomplish anything other than having people either spend more time, or get more people in resupply vehicles to achieve the same effect, or simply not bothering because once the horde is there, they just move on to the next base.
Tactics.
Even in situations where you could fight back M3s are often preferred because it's so easy. An often non risky and very efficient way to defend a base. There's a bomber showing up on dar? Spawn an M3. There's a single vehicle taking down my town? I spawn a M3. It's not only those desperate fights against the hordes were M3s show up. Ever so often you can see them running even when there was a decent change to fight back. Heck, I regularly see bases being lost because everybody was jumping in an M3 instead of looking at the maproom.
(The problem of discussions about this topic is that advocates of both sides ("keep it!" vs "change it") are often arguing with with extreme cases only.)
IMHO, delegating supply to SdKfz could give a former hangar queen a vital role in the game (variety!), and gives a better incentive to fight than just to resupply. All while not taking away resupply entirely - Which would actually be impossible without a complete change of the strat system and not even desirable for keeping up a diverse gameplay with options for newer players to contribute in particular.
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This tells me that 1 in 5 GVers is engaged in non-combat activities. That's significant.
And in the real world, well Vietnam anyway for every grunt considered a direct combatant required 8 other troops in the back to do paperwork like payroll, supply and transport the grunts in the field and build/rebuild firebases and logistics bases. Doubt you'll find many grunts or gyrenes on here that didn't wait impatiently for the resup chopper for ammo, food, water, mail etc. We always talked irreverently about the REMF's, but you should of heard the griping if supply was late or didn't come and you had 3 mags left at nightfall.
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It is, but what is the acceptable range? We've got a number in a vacuum. None of us have the data to say what percentages things were at in the good old days when things were supposedly awesome. For all we know, it used to be 1 in 6, or 1 in 4.
But people are sure drawing conclusions from it based on their own opinions.
And what I REALLY don't understand is how slowing down resupply by moving it to the SDK is going to accomplish anything other than having people either spend more time, or get more people in resupply vehicles to achieve the same effect, or simply not bothering because once the horde is there, they just move on to the next base.
Wiley.
Luche explained his rationale, but I don't think simply slowing down the delivery of town supplies will help that much. I agree much more with having fixed down times fot town objects.
Even more so, I believe that restoring the 6K icon for GV's will ensure they can be engaged and killed frequently enough to curb the total base capture or resupply by a reasonable amount as to encourage more air sorties.
Of coures not every GVer will resort to aircraft.
Nor will most M3 drivers even dare risk their hides in a true combat role. -For them I suggest Euro Truck Simulator.
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AH III -- the worlds premier Payroll and Office Administration sim!
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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And in the real world, well Vietnam anyway for every grunt considered a direct combatant required 8 other troops in the back to do paperwork like payroll, supply and transport the grunts in the field and build/rebuild firebases and logistics bases. Doubt you'll find many grunts or gyrenes on here that didn't wait impatiently for the resup chopper for ammo, food, water, mail etc. We always talked irreverently about the REMF's, but you should of heard the griping if supply was late or didn't come and you had 3 mags left at nightfall.
So... You're suggesting we need the ability to play as a payroll clerk? ;)
Tactics.
Even in situations where you could fight back M3s are often preferred because it's so easy. An often non risky and very efficient way to defend a base. There's a bomber showing up on dar? Spawn an M3. There's a single vehicle taking down my town? I spawn a M3. It's not only those desperate fights against the hordes were M3s show up. Ever so often you can see them running even when there was a decent change to fight back. Heck, I regularly see bases being lost because everybody was jumping in an M3 instead of looking at the maproom.
(The problem of discussions about this topic is that advocates of both sides ("keep it!" vs "change it") are often arguing with with extreme cases only.)
I agree with your assessment, as I usually do. It is tricky because the extremes are seen quite often at both ends. Just looking at the above examples, what does it being the SDK change though? It's slower, but in both cases above does the speed difference significantly impact the outcome? I'm terribly skeptical. An extra minute in the above situations isn't likely to affect much. I think the impact would be much more on the "steady train of attackers and resuppliers" kind of battles.
IMHO, delegating supply to SdKfz could give a former hangar queen a vital role in the game (variety!), and gives a better incentive to fight than just to resupply. All while not taking away resupply entirely - Which would actually be impossible without a complete change of the strat system and not even desirable for keeping up a diverse gameplay with options for newer players to contribute in particular.
And that's the sticking point for me. If people are stuck on "resupply is the best thing I can do to help" IMHO they're more likely to give up rather than fight if resupply is slowed to the point where they can see it becomes ineffective.
Luche explained his rationale, but I don't think simply slowing down the delivery of town supplies will help that much. I agree much more with having fixed down times fot town objects.
Even more so, I believe that restoring the 6K icon for GV's will ensure they can be engaged and killed frequently enough to curb the total base capture or resupply by a reasonable amount as to encourage more air sorties.
Of coures not every GVer will resort to aircraft.
Nor will most M3 drivers even dare risk their hides in a true combat role. -For them I suggest Euro Truck Simulator.
Those are some serious changes. I am skeptical of HT's agreement. ;) Mostly due to the fact he added the Storch specifically for the shorter icons.
Euro Truck Simulator 2 was on sale last weekend, I forgot to post about it. Sad that many people likely missed out.
Wiley.
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Euro Truck Simulator 2 was on sale last weekend, I forgot to post about it. Sad that many people likely missed out.
No worries, I've been playing that game for quite some time now :rock
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What i get out of it, is the gameboard needs to appear to have action to attract new players.. and at this rate keep its current ones. You arent going to get folks to pay 15 bucks monthly without some intense action.
Resupplying a base is.. well... not action
Illogical as it is now we DO have folks paying 15 bucks a month to do what you say is not action. It isn't action for you maybe but it certainly is action for them.
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Now that tour 213 is finished (and thus the only full tour in which the M3had its troops removed), we can take a look at how it affected captures:
(https://i.imgur.com/XWsfq9A.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/OaCAs56.jpg)
As you can see, the results are much less dramatic that some players tried to make us believe at the beginning.
And yes, I have abandoned my AH stats thread, because it makes no sense featuring a thread with hundreds of "your link is no longer available". So I will just go back to post stuff here and there again.
I'm guessing the bomber numbers are for all bombers and NOT just the goon?
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So... You're suggesting we need the ability to play as a payroll clerk? ;)
Hardly, just illustrating a posters (1 out of 6) non combatants comparison versus (1 out of 9) from an actual combat theaters ratio. Seems to indicate the non combatant ratio of AH resupply is almost double. But of course a field supply grunt in 1968 didn't drop off a box of ammo one moment then drive a tank flattening a town the next either.
I do wish a few times the paymaster would have been in the boonies with us when they screwed up the pay though.
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I'm guessing the bomber numbers are for all bombers and NOT just the goon?
As far as I know, the C-47 is the only bomber able to drop troops and capture a base... :noid
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I'll have to watch Oceania over some months but, my choice to reduce every country down to two vBases appears to have fewer players hanging out in tin cans defending vBases or avoiding the rest of the surrounding fights by only upping to fight between vBases like many AH2 legacy terrains. Much of the activity on Oceania so far is air born with a logical amount of "GV support" visa available spawns. When the clover leaf islands would end up as Ft. Apache due to the surrounding GV spawn bases being captured cutting off resupply. The defenders threw them selves into air combat. It probably helped that our attack had to come over water due to no CV being in the area to quick launch from. Also having the map room on some of the airfields promotes quick air combat to suppress and defend the field while trying to get troops to the map room sitting next to the tower.
Terrain design has some influence on how players use the toys, it requires time to learn how to configure bases and topography to help influence game flow. You need to build a few terrains and watch them to see how your assumptions "honestly" play out. Just because I played on terrains for the last 15 years didn't make me the expert I thought I was, just like many in the forum believe they are. I'm not being rude when my answer to their telling me how I should have really done something is to build a terrain.
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Those are some serious changes. I am skeptical of HT's agreement. ;) Mostly due to the fact he added the Storch specifically for the shorter icons.
It was a serious change at the time too.
While it was intended to have Storches spotting GV's, how often are they actually used? - hardly ever. All that really happened was that GV's gained a huge advantage by being able to sneak around with minimal air threat to them.
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Illogical as it is now we DO have folks paying 15 bucks a month to do what you say is not action. It isn't action for you maybe but it certainly is action for them.
Numbers show its pretty unbalanced aspect of gameplay. To the point where it gets pretty stale, especially to a younger generation of gamers. Then again I didnt need this stat thread to prove it. See previous posts.
Ive also mentioned supply should be nerfed, not removed. Folks should be able to run supplies to help out.. not totally dictate the outcome of a base battle. I shouldnt have to sit in a buff for an hour to bomb a city, just to get quick functional gameplay of a map.
These same concepts apply to the way manned guns function in this game. But thats a whole different thread to be made for a 50th time.
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Genuinely curious, what precisely have you been vindicated on? We now know that about 2/3 of M3 sorties were running supplies. That means they likely accounted for around 22% (give or take) of total GV sorties over the course of the month.
What exactly does that do to support your point that M3 resupply is bad for the game, and how exactly does it recommend the Snail's idea?
All I get out of it is, "Yup. The M3 sure does get used a lot. So does the T34."
Wiley.
People thought the M3 numbers were strictly for troops and I was imagining that they were being used for supplies a lot....that I was just whining about it.
I didn't need these numbers to show I was right that it was OP for defense but more so the fact that it was being used for that instead of other vehicles or planes...which the numbers do.
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People thought the M3 numbers were strictly for troops and I was imagining that they were being used for supplies a lot....that I was just whining about it.
I didn't need these numbers to show I was right that it was OP for defense but more so the fact that it was being used for that instead of other vehicles or planes...which the numbers do.
pffft.... :noid
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,326114.msg4264943.html#msg4264943 :old:
for bonus points - read my sig. :aok
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This tells me that 1 in 5 GVers is engaged in non-combat activities. That's significant.
IMHO if you up in anything it's a combat activity if as long as you aren't sitting in a tower you have a chance to get a kill or die there for it's all combat
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PS... Stop screwing with how other people want to play their game.. The only thing you can truly control is your own actions not the actions of others
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People thought the M3 numbers were strictly for troops and I was imagining that they were being used for supplies a lot....
I have never seen anyone claiming anything like that. :headscratch:
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PS... Stop screwing with how other people want to play their game.. The only thing you can truly control is your own actions not the actions of others
It's not about "screwing with how other people want to play their game". It's about restoring balance to the overall combat in the MA. It's broken and it's been broken since the Storch was introduced and the GV'ers took over as a result of the EZ Mode GV icons.
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It's broken and it's been broken since the Storch was introduced and the GV'ers took over as a result of the EZ Mode GV icons.
You'll have to explain that to me, I'm afraid. What exactly did they "take over"?
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You'll have to explain that to me, I'm afraid. What exactly did they "take over"?
To become the dominant form of troop transport would be the best way to quantify it. I can't attest to the overall percentage of GV use, but they seem to be the most prevalent way to achieve base capture. Seems in AH2, especially before the Storch, the GV game was mostly limited to spawn camp battles.
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With a flick of a few keyboard buttons HTC could eliminate base takes altogether for a tour. My guess is the number of players would drop with a monochrome game of just air to air.
I think they should try that if for other reason than to stop this endless whining over M3. This is getting old.
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It's not about "screwing with how other people want to play their game". It's about restoring balance to the overall combat in the MA. It's broken and it's been broken since the Storch was introduced and the GV'ers took over as a result of the EZ Mode GV icons.
again it involves trying to force people to play the way you want them to.. If they want to resup in M3s or get in a manned gun or climb to 37k in b29s to hit strats or hq it's all combat it's just not your idea of combat
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I think the M-3 has a valid role in everything it can resupply, towns or factories. When I'm on, unless it's squad night, I spend a few minutes running resupply to factories. Maybe someone else thinks it okay to have important strats down in the 30s%, but I don't. That's a good way to lose bases and keep yourself having to fight uphill when your ammo, ack, and radars are down for an hour or more. If I can get there faster then flying, I'll take an M3; if not, a goon.
Two days ago I was doing this and was the only one doing so. I think I ran 4 boxes, maybe 20 min or so. Then I spent almost 3 hours flying and fighting. So if someone is trying to make the case that the world will fall apart and no combat will happen unless we boot M3's in a supply role, I simply can't accept that as reasonable. I was one out of 50 or so people doing resupply for a few minutes, the rest were in the air.
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To become the dominant form of troop transport would be the best way to quantify it.
There was no surge in base captures by M3s when those changes you mentioned were made. The shift from bomber to vehicle base captures was a gradual and very slow one, starting back when Gv's were introduced to AH for the first time.
I can't attest to the overall percentage of GV use, but they seem to be the most prevalent way to achieve base capture. Seems in AH2, especially before the Storch, the GV game was mostly limited to spawn camp battles.
Players spend about one quarter of their time in vehicles. The peak (so far) was reached end 2016 with about 28%, since then it dropped a bit (last tour 22%)
In AH2, bases just got attacked (and captured by vehicles as today. One of the main reasons of the gradual increase of the capture share is that the terrains were made more and more Gv friendly. For example Mindanao & Baltic had far less GV spawns back in the day. We had maps like Ozkansas and others which had many places you could only reach by goon at all.
Also spawn camp battles and TT were more prominent because of a) player numbers and b) terrains changes over the years. There's much less GV vs Gv combat in AhIII because of the terrain. In many places, tanker suddenly had a hard time finding each other.
When the GV control system was changed in 2010, GV's did in fact become more popular, because of the much increased accessibility. But that boost was not that massive at all, for the most part it recovered some ground lost (in terms of gametime) that occured in 2009-2010.
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again it involves trying to force people to play the way you want them to.. If they want to resup in M3s or get in a manned gun or climb to 37k in b29s to hit strats or hq it's all combat it's just not your idea of combat
The introduction of perks forced the players to play in a certain way. ENY did the same. So do side switching time limits.
Any gameplay mechanism/limitation is basically enforcing something on players.
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The introduction of perks forced the players to play in a certain way. ENY did the same. So do side switching time limits.
Any gameplay mechanism/limitation is basically enforcing something on players.
I don't think it forces players that want to stay in a gv to get into a plane or at least it wouldn't me..I happen to defend in the air land and Sea myself
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Bring back the supply convoys/barges for towns/vbases/ports, and supply trains for cities/strats... maybe run supply trains to the towns.
Turn down/off the GV base/town resupply factor.
Might even promote more fighting/combat... just a thought... :uhoh
X :salute
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Shortening the GV icon range gave GV combat a reasonable chance of survival against aircraft in AH2. Add the new trees in AH3, GV's are invisible about half the time now and much harder to eliminate with bombs or guns from tank attacker planes. The storch bridges the gap some back to the old GV icon ranges that made GV's and especially wirbles and M16 sitting ducks. Being able to see them and tag the area around them helps expose GV's. And why the storch is one of the first casualties in tank combat in AH3. I'm very good spotting and tagging GV's with a storch, I've caused a few spawn battles to go dry in AH3 because you can hide between bushes and sneak up on GVs to tag them. And I didn't care how many times some T34 in commander mode skeet shot me in my storch as much as I think it's gamey as heck when I'm in a much faster plane.
In AH2 before the icon range change, I could land 5 GV kills per sortie in an IL2. Now, I'm lucky to get 2 and not get skeet shot from commander mode every sortie. So one way to screw with M3's running supplies to win a fight for a base with a single finger salute while never firing a shot. Put the map room next to the tower and remove the town. No rule says you have to have a town with an airfield. The problem is then you really have to get off your kester and fight or the tanks will be camping all of your hangers while an M3 runs troops to the map room sitting on the field.
As I've listened to complaints about this game for two terrains now, the heart of many of them, is players want all the bases in their own country configured to be impossible to capture while they are busy capturing the other country's "some how not as well protected" bases. No one even realizes they are saying that as they complain about all the things that ultimately describe this phenomenon. I discovered this deep seated bias only by building terrains and catching myself in the cognitive dissonance of trying to make all of the bases in the country I was populating protected from being captured. Then realizing two things: 1. If I did that to the two other countries the terrain would be boring and garbage for having fights. 2. - When terrains go online each time out of the queue, Hitech randomizes which of the three country's each chess piece will populate.
M3's are probably being misused by players who don't want to fight and like being able to dictate the outcome of a fight by groups of players with a low risk single finger salute. It is a core human nature of person to person shooter computer games.
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The m3 resupply problem is enhanced off peak hours. It needs tweaking not removing altogether.
During prime time I'm sure you have enough hands to camp their spawns or enough aircraft to hold cap and pummel the 1 or 2 diehards running the supps.
Off hours I have to be the bomber, fighter cover, de-acker and sometimes the troop carrier also. I'd rather have a situation where 2-3 attackers and 1 or 2 defenders try and engage in combat because lets face it defending a base is super easy with those odds. I've held out with 1 vs many before but with this get out they can just not up whatsover and have town back up before you can even get half way back to base. Then that results in people bailing out to get the job done in time which in turns confuses the dar what shall i fly situation for the defenders.
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GV's gained a huge advantage by being able to sneak around with minimal air threat to them.
On the ground upping any GV at a spawn where the maps yellow spawn line and big yellow spawn arrow show players exactly where GV's spawn and which direction their guns will face when spawned can hardly be described as 'minimal air threat'.
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Would it acceptable to only allow M3s to supply towns when spawning from a different airfield? Since spawns are far enough from town it would be abused far less without removing the supply factor, which some people (strangely) enjoy. It would also allow some interdiction and give fighter bombers something to do.
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On the ground upping any GV at a spawn where the maps yellow spawn line and big yellow spawn arrow show players exactly where GV's spawn and which direction their guns will face when spawned can hardly be described as 'minimal air threat'.
Right, because a GV is going to just sit there at it's spawn point and wait to get bombed. :rolleyes:
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We can always use new pilots.
shuffler where u been?
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Right, because a GV is going to just sit there at it's spawn point and wait to get bombed. :rolleyes:
Seriously ??? :headscratch:
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Would it acceptable to only allow M3s to supply towns when spawning from a different airfield?.
This is so much acceptable that it's always have been that way.
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Seriously ??? :headscratch:
Seems that your post contained information relevant only to the instant a GV spawns into the game. Hence my sarcastic reply to it.
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This is so much acceptable that it's always have been that way.
Really? I remember seeing M3s moving supplies to towns from airfields in the past.
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Really? I remember seeing M3s moving supplies to towns from airfields in the past.
That would not work.
You always had to come from a different base, that's why "they can't resupp A12, no GV spawn"
Imagine, if it would work, you would see it all the time. ;)
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And that's the sticking point for me. If people are stuck on "resupply is the best thing I can do to help" IMHO they're more likely to give up rather than fight if resupply is slowed to the point where they can see it becomes ineffective.
Wiley.
That's exactly where I'm coming from wiley. I'm simply not very good at most aspects of the game, but I want to help the team I'm on to the best of my ability. M3s are certainly not my 1st choice of fun things to up, but if that's what's most likely to be successful in saving the base, then that's what I'll do.
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It was a serious change at the time too.
While it was intended to have Storches spotting GV's, how often are they actually used? - hardly ever. All that really happened was that GV's gained a huge advantage by being able to sneak around with minimal air threat to them.
The are used quite frequently at ports...so they can bail out and go hide their pilot and kill troops while invisible.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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The are used quite frequently at ports...so they can bail out and go hide their pilot and kill troops while invisible.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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While it was intended to have Storches spotting GV's, how often are they actually used? - hardly ever.
Actually plenty often.
Just go to plane statistics http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/planes.php select last tour (213) and sort the table by deaths. You'll be surprised how high the Fieseler is ranking, having had more deaths to the enemy than (for example) Seafires, 109K, P-47D40 or N, A-20, Morrie 6 and so on.
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still fewer deaths than the also rare C-47.
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still fewer deaths than the also rare C-47.
Unlike the 47, the Fi is rarely venturing into enemy territory. And look at the table as a whole. It's ranked #32 in deaths out of 120. Half the deaths of the La-7 and so on. A few weeks ago HiTech posted sortie numbers. The Fieseler was ranked #13 in planes, with only slightly less than half the sorties than the leading plane (P-51D).
Calling that "Hardly ever used" is bordering on absurdity. They are constantly used at vehicle bases.
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yeah but how many Fi156 sorties are pilots bailing for the map room? :)
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Actually plenty often.
Just go to plane statistics http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/planes.php select last tour (213) and sort the table by deaths. You'll be surprised how high the Fieseler is ranking, having had more deaths to the enemy than (for example) Seafires, 109K, P-47D40 or N, A-20, Morrie 6 and so on.
I'd be interested to see how many of those were people bailing out OTR at V-bases.
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I'd be interested to see how many of those were people bailing out OTR at V-bases.
Me too. :)
But from my own observations 'legit' usage outnumbers maproom bails by far. I see them used in a scout role a lot.
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The storch is a great example of a non combat vehicle that promotes better combat action.
Unlike ressuply.
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pffft.... :noid
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,326114.msg4264943.html#msg4264943 :old:
for bonus points - read my sig. :aok
I knew I always liked you :aok
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So... You're suggesting we need the ability to play as a payroll clerk? ;)
I agree with your assessment, as I usually do. It is tricky because the extremes are seen quite often at both ends. Just looking at the above examples, what does it being the SDK change though? It's slower, but in both cases above does the speed difference significantly impact the outcome? I'm terribly skeptical. An extra minute in the above situations isn't likely to affect much. I think the impact would be much more on the "steady train of attackers and resuppliers" kind of battles.
And that's the sticking point for me. If people are stuck on "resupply is the best thing I can do to help" IMHO they're more likely to give up rather than fight if resupply is slowed to the point where they can see it becomes ineffective.
Those are some serious changes. I am skeptical of HT's agreement. ;) Mostly due to the fact he added the Storch specifically for the shorter icons.
Euro Truck Simulator 2 was on sale last weekend, I forgot to post about it. Sad that many people likely missed out.
Wiley.
I wish I was filming 2 sorties the other day, first was hitting an enemy field without a spawn into it, the other was with a spawn...the fight for the one with a spawn saw Whirbs running to town, planes trying to get out, high cons coming in from far bases...lots of them.
The other, no uppers off the field after VH was down, 1 high P51, and A gang of m3s...
Both fields taken because of overwhelming numbers bit the fight for the latter was not fun...
Why could those 4 pilots come over in fighters, or bombers or tanks or whirbs....
All they did was just give target practice, but the fact they were defending the other base hard is enough proof that the players will still try to do their part to save fields.
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The storch is a great example of a non combat vehicle that promotes better combat action.
Unlike ressuply.
I've flown out and landed supplies for vehicles then went and spotted for them in AH2. I've not used it a lot in AH3.
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All they did was just give target practice, but the fact they were defending the other base hard is enough proof that the players will still try to do their part to save fields.
And by your own anecdote, that "other" way failed.
There's your answer right there; it explains why many people won't do what you think they should do. Trying to get off a capped field doesn't work, it just pads fighter scores. Flying in from a sector and a half away, climbing, means you likely won't get there in time to make a difference. If you can resupply, it buys time for the long flight in or a VH to come back up or a horde to thin out to where upping at the field becomes a viable option.
It's not as though someone resupps a town and then wrings their hands saying, "Job's done!" Once the town is rendered safe from capture (at least for a while) my experiences are that the reuppliers get back in the fight, only this time they have some breathing room and aren't restricted to trying to make a low-level bee line to town watching for troops.
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I believe trying a month without field supps on the M3 and 251 would be an interesting experiment. Alternatively, make airfield objects open for resupply rather than towns. This may spur more fighting and defending rather than spamming supplies to town.
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The storch is a great example of a non combat vehicle that promotes better combat action.
Unlike ressuply.
Really?
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Thats ONE thing I really liked on BUSTR'S new terrain. Several of the Small Airbases had maproom ON THE FIELD no town. I had some of the best action on 3 of those take attempts, and 2 defending base takes of those type fields. It was fast and instant action and lasted for around 5 hours straight. In Wirtbs, field guns and AIR. It was back and forth, we take 1, start another..they take back and start another. It was hectic but ABSOLUTE FUN. M3s resupplied a few field guns enough to get the down times all messed up. One man gun would pop as C47 was landing to run troops. WAS most fun I have had in along time :x Having the towns and the maproom on fields would still give bombers some targets instead of just Jabbos deacking and then run troops. Thats really the only thing I would have changed on those fields. Town would need to be taken down, and field for base capture.
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Until Hitech changes the relationship of the town to the map room, it's a town capture or a map room on the airfield capture. I thought placing the map room on a few airfields would create some frantic sustained action after observing the change to the center of NDilses with those three airfields with map room on the field. If I do another terrain I may do a 50\50 town map room, airfield map room. It makes creating the terrain around the airfield for GV combat complicated because of how fast a capture theoretically could happen. That's why I placed a river between the GV spawns and the airfield 2 miles out.
I'm testing the Mediterranean tile set on a small test terrain right now along with prototyping topography features to get a handle on building them. Or if they are possible. I hate suffering through creating a terrain wide topo feature for weeks to reach near the end and discover a better way to do it after all that effort. It really sucks.... :O
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I really like the variety of both kinds of capture - AF map room vs Town map room.
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And by your own anecdote, that "other" way failed.
There's your answer right there; it explains why many people won't do what you think they should do. Trying to get off a capped field doesn't work, it just pads fighter scores. Flying in from a sector and a half away, climbing, means you likely won't get there in time to make a difference. If you can resupply, it buys time for the long flight in or a VH to come back up or a horde to thin out to where upping at the field becomes a viable option.
It's not as though someone resupps a town and then wrings their hands saying, "Job's done!" Once the town is rendered safe from capture (at least for a while) my experiences are that the reuppliers get back in the fight, only this time they have some breathing room and aren't restricted to trying to make a low-level bee line to town watching for troops.
Wrong you didnt read....the town where they were upping was a more intense fight which they almost held off....the other was a quick raid where we were just killing M3s...both failed but which way is more fun for all parties involved? Not the M3 that is for sure.
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And by your own anecdote, that "other" way failed.
There's your answer right there; it explains why many people won't do what you think they should do. Trying to get off a capped field doesn't work, it just pads fighter scores. Flying in from a sector and a half away, climbing, means you likely won't get there in time to make a difference. If you can resupply, it buys time for the long flight in or a VH to come back up or a horde to thin out to where upping at the field becomes a viable option.
It's not as though someone resupps a town and then wrings their hands saying, "Job's done!" Once the town is rendered safe from capture (at least for a while) my experiences are that the reuppliers get back in the fight, only this time they have some breathing room and aren't restricted to trying to make a low-level bee line to town watching for troops.
Oh and not knocking you for being new but I'm assuming before your time in game we had no town resupply and I never brought about the problem and nobody ever asked for town resupply....they asked for more importance to strats and that was a small part of the overall answer from HTC....I think convoys, barges and trains should be the important part of all resupply....not M3s
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Regarding resupply as a means of defense.. what if each load of sups reduced damage by a fixed percentage, such as 15%, rather than 10 minutes? That way resupplying would most benefit when towns are down extended periods, such as 100+ minutes. In that scenario, the first load would take it down to 85 minutes. 4 more loads later you'd be at 32 min (that would put you at 50 min remaining under the current system).
That way if you are resupplying to prevent a sneak (and there is no real action at that base) you don't have to sacrifice players to babysit a town (and that them out of the action).
At the same time if there are 25 minutes left on the town, you'd only reduce down time by 5 min... hardly enough to mount an effective "resupply defense" and people would be more likely to up fighters/gvs instead.
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Now it's time for another experiment, no object supplies for a tour...more fighting, no cargo hauling.
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Really?
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b9/a7/a7/b9a7a79dda54ef8c82d2d842f799f303--oh-rly-internet-memes.jpg)
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Regarding resupply as a means of defense.. what if each load of sups reduced damage by a fixed percentage, such as 15%, rather than 10 minutes? That way resupplying would most benefit when towns are down extended periods, such as 100+ minutes.
Interesting approach. Let's do the math for resupply by 1,2,4 players respectively and a driving duration of 5 minutes.
First, a town at default downtime.
(https://i.imgur.com/K4dk2XZ.png)
Second, at 60 minutes downtime. This is about a rather typical maximum downtime we currently encounter in AHIII, since the cities are far less attacked & destroyed than in AHII (except for Buzzaw)
(https://i.imgur.com/bwSk8qK.png)
Third, 180 minutes of downtime for the Strats
(https://i.imgur.com/bpr7iVv.png)
EDIT: Corrected the third chart.
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Im having trouble following those lines without going crosseyed... but in anycase if we tweaked the percentage, to somewhere aroind 15-20 then i think it would work out well.
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:bhead wow SMH
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I think convoys, barges and trains should be the important part of all resupply....not M3s
Yes, return the fun old days of AH when bored spawn campers sniped truck convoys to kill time and making PT torp runs against barges for practice. :banana:
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Here is what I'm thinking. Anyone guess what it will do?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=390150.0;attach=28704)
HiTech
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Here is what I'm thinking. Anyone guess what it will do?
Create an outrage? :noid
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In-flight pie charts?
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Here is what I'm thinking. Anyone guess what it will do?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=390150.0;attach=28704)
HiTech
:headscratch:
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Give you a direction to help find gv's
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Here is what I'm thinking. Anyone guess what it will do?
HiTech
make red/green colour blind people wonder why the bottom right quadrant is a darker shad of grey
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GV threat quadrant?
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Create an outrage? :noid
:rofl This.
Dark quadrant means GV this way? Interesting.
Wiley.
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What is the experiment?
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Anyone know what Hitech was "really" monitoring and if he has a conclusion over the results?
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I hope it's not a quadrant for where a GV is coming from in either the attacking/defending role...that doesn't fix the problem which is people upping M3s with town supplies over a weapon of war.
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Doesn't do a thing on its own for M3 resupply, but it'll sure help with the single GV flashing a base/strat for hours.
Wiley.
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Here is what I'm thinking. Anyone guess what it will do?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=390150.0;attach=28704)
HiTech
You're getting warmer... Uh-oh to those bush hiders. :D
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Why don't we just put a big flashing neon Arrow over every GV that is hiding in the bushes because heaven forbid that wasn't a valid tactic in real war ground attacks LOL
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I hope it's not a quadrant for where a GV is coming from in either the attacking/defending role...that doesn't fix the problem which is people upping M3s with town supplies over a weapon of war.
My thoughts too.
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Atomic bomb blast radius?
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Oh and not knocking you for being new but I'm assuming before your time in game we had no town resupply and I never brought about the problem and nobody ever asked for town resupply....they asked for more importance to strats and that was a small part of the overall answer from HTC....I think convoys, barges and trains should be the important part of all resupply....not M3s
I'm not new, only the gameID I fly under is.
And I think you missed my point. You gave two examples where a fight ensued over a base, in both examples the base ended up being captured. But what some are claiming is that these M3 missions are somehow ruining the game because, were it not for M3s, more people would fight for the base. Now that might have been the case a few years ago, it's not the case today. When offense is going on somewhere else on the map, defense of bases seems to take a back seat. That's what I observe. I also observe it's very difficult to get help when there's a giant red dar bar over the field others are asked to help with.
Now it's been characterized that the moment these attacks happen, everyone on the defender side immediately jumps into an M3 to resupply. Well I don't know, maybe that happens in YOUR country, but I don't see that happen in mine (Bish). What I see is a few defenders up, they TRY to defend and aren't successful, as the situation devolves into what I described... you can't up there, you can't fly in to help in time from another base, and the only options are give up the base or try to stall with a box of supps. THAT is what I see happen, and it happens on all sides. Seen it as defender, seen it when trying to take a base.
All I am saying is that it IS a part of the game now. Because it is, it's not the someone trying to save a base that is the cause of reduced air-to-air combats, as some suggest. It's a air AND ground game, and it doesn't mean people should ignore one and play the way others want. If you've been around so long, then tell me when it was that there wasn't people claiming X kills air combat for this reason or that? That's always been around, this is just the latest excuse.
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Airborne ground radar ?
GV'ers will require camo netting then.
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Airborne ground radar ?
GV'ers will require camo netting then.
If it only shows a quadrant where a GV is, it's still next to useless.
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I'm not new, only the gameID I fly under is.
And I think you missed my point. You gave two examples where a fight ensued over a base, in both examples the base ended up being captured. But what some are claiming is that these M3 missions are somehow ruining the game because, were it not for M3s, more people would fight for the base. Now that might have been the case a few years ago, it's not the case today. When offense is going on somewhere else on the map, defense of bases seems to take a back seat. That's what I observe. I also observe it's very difficult to get help when there's a giant red dar bar over the field others are asked to help with.
Now it's been characterized that the moment these attacks happen, everyone on the defender side immediately jumps into an M3 to resupply. Well I don't know, maybe that happens in YOUR country, but I don't see that happen in mine (Bish). What I see is a few defenders up, they TRY to defend and aren't successful, as the situation devolves into what I described... you can't up there, you can't fly in to help in time from another base, and the only options are give up the base or try to stall with a box of supps. THAT is what I see happen, and it happens on all sides. Seen it as defender, seen it when trying to take a base.
All I am saying is that it IS a part of the game now. Because it is, it's not the someone trying to save a base that is the cause of reduced air-to-air combats, as some suggest. It's a air AND ground game, and it doesn't mean people should ignore one and play the way others want. If you've been around so long, then tell me when it was that there wasn't people claiming X kills air combat for this reason or that? That's always been around, this is just the latest excuse.
Nope you still dont get it......IM NOT TRYING TO SAVE THE AIR GAME....so stop trying to say I am....Im trying to help promote more combat...which is a huge downfall in this game the last 4-5 years.....anyone who says it hasn't is just naive.
What your literally saying in this post makes my point....
Here's the thing, the players can let defense take a back seat now....because they can be reactive with M3 resupply as good as it is, they used to have to be proactive in base defense. People used to literally watch the map for the first sign of flashing or a dar bar popping, now they dont have to.....I can't count how many times I've attack bish fields with 4-5 rooks or knights without any uppers just to see M3s dropping Town supps outside of town.
Oh and the field where we were killing the M3s before we took it...was a bish field so don't try to say its one country because I shade on bish front often enough to see the same comments about resupply.
Legit, town resupply was the worst add to the gameplay since 2007...it's one of the only things I have seen(other then side switch time) that HTC can make changes in game in order to fix a lot of gameplay problems....disable base supply in M3s....make the 251 the only gv that can carry them.
Oh and also for your last comment....Dogfite and the v tards which make up a good portion of the squads that now fly bish used to bomb fighter hangers at furballs just so people would come help them take bases so dont act like its only the air to air guys who try to find ways to make others play their ways....what a stupid comment.
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How about this: any vehicle carrying field supplies has the old (and fun!) icon vis range. Was it 3k from a plane?
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How about this: any vehicle carrying field supplies has the old (and fun!) icon vis range. Was it 3k from a plane?
I honestly think disabling field supplies from the M3 and having the 251 be the only field supply carrier for GVs would be the quickest and best option to have everyone be happy or at least ok with the setup...feel like it would still leave town resupply at a pretty OP level but its whatever now, just want to see a change from having to kill congo lines of m3s to take a field.
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congo lines of m3s
Conga! :old:
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Here is what I'm thinking. Anyone guess what it will do?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=390150.0;attach=28704)
HiTech
Sorry, sir. I already suck in GV's and rarely drive them. This will only serve to discourage me from them altogether.
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By placing all of the feilds as close together as the rules allow, Oceania generated a lot of action. M3's didn't seem to matter because of all the activity.
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I honestly think disabling field supplies from the M3 and having the 251 be the only field supply carrier for GVs would be the quickest and best option to have everyone be happy or at least ok with the setup...feel like it would still leave town resupply at a pretty OP level but its whatever now, just want to see a change from having to kill congo lines of m3s to take a field.
-1
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I honestly think disabling field supplies from the M3 and having the 251 be the only field supply carrier for GVs would be the quickest and best option to have everyone be happy or at least ok with the setup
+1
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I honestly think disabling field supplies from the M3 and having the 251 be the only field supply carrier for GVs would be the quickest and best option to have everyone be happy or at least ok with the setup...feel like it would still leave town resupply at a pretty OP level but its whatever now, just want to see a change from having to kill congo lines of m3s to take a field.
Interesting idea. How about a month long experiment?
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If it only shows a quadrant where a GV is, it's still next to useless.
Are you kidding? For a single vehicle hiding under the canopy, depending on the update rate it could be super easy to triangulate. Just fly n/s until the quadrant changes, then turn e/w until it changes again.
I just hope we'll have the option to turn it off. When I'm not GV hunting, that would be clutter I don't need.
Wiley.
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I honestly think disabling field supplies from the M3 and having the 251 be the only field supply carrier for GVs would be the quickest and best option to have everyone be happy or at least ok with the setup...feel like it would still leave town resupply at a pretty OP level but its whatever now, just want to see a change from having to kill congo lines of m3s to take a field.
I would agree with a test but disable all the supplies to town just to make it a viable test. But set town ack, field ack and building to be a standard time like fifteen minutes so strats are out of the picture. If you don't do that then the maps will roll over too fast.
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So the next terrain experiment will be to place the map room on 50% of airfields since it worked out well for creating air combat.
The history of our terrains has been a response to the prevailing play style, and this last experiment "Oceania" was to verify how the current play style has changed. Bridges and earth ramps both enhanced GV combat dynamics. The clover leaf islands with the large airfields and two bridges, and one land bridge ramp up hill to the town played well for the GVers. As did placing the map room on 7 airfields in each country removing any real impact by GV resupply. Everyone adapted and fought for the field with no real concern over not being able to win by running supplies. There were many last minute unexpected saves by defenders. And reducing each country to two vBases did not impact the GV game since I gave the GVers spawns to follow the combat fronts and assist in those efforts. As long as you give GVers some place to go shoot at, vBases are not really necessary. The ones I placed on the terrain answered my question of how I would supply the port and support it if this were the real world.
Three to four hundred players as the norm each night, giving GVs the ability to resupply a town makes sense since the attackers would run a conveyor belt of bombers and jabo at a town. Or carpet bomb it down to almost zero with up to 3 boxes of bombers in one pass. There used to be many players who could bomb like that and enjoyed working together to do it. Gvs running supplies to towns made sense back then.
The play style today wants quick access to combat and a change up to the old terrain features, Oceania provided both.
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If the quadrant thingy is for finding GVs, I hope it is only available for the Storch and has a limited detection range/altitude. As much as I dislike hunting hidden GVs, I wouln't want them to be TOO easy to find.
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Instead of speculating, I'd rather like its intent and function revealed by HT first. :old:
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Instead of speculating, I'd rather like its intent and function revealed by HT first. :old:
Pfft. Where's the fun in that? It's easier to get support for your "It's going to ruin the game" screed when there aren't facts for other people to look at.
Wiley.
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Here is what I'm thinking. Anyone guess what it will do?
HiTech
Are we talking about aircraft that have airborne radar? Soviet's used the IL2 and Yak-9 variants. Germany used the Ju-88 and Bf-110. Allies can use the Mosquito (although it was initially in the Beaufighter) - the PBY-6A did have a radar AND operator onboard. So may options! But I suspect this is to allow for GV location ID...abiet it's a bit sparse in it's features to do so.
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Oh and the field where we were killing the M3s before we took it...was a bish field so don't try to say its one country because I shade on bish front often enough to see the same comments about resupply.
CYBRO, is it really you? :confused: Dont get your Nickers in a wad...just playing with ya :neener: Cant believe I spotted this and someone hadnt commented on it yet :x Guess reading isnt what it used to be either :uhoh
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A :salute to Bustr. Your map designs represent each faction of the game as equals.
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Active vehicles for the most part you don't need anything other than the willingness to head out towards the spawn and listen from time to time on the ground. In the air, the time to spend flying low looking for motion or an Icon. So indirect quadrant scanning would let you know the general location of those guys who shut down while parked in the center of a clump of trees. Personally I would rather the M16, osti and wirble get a big red "W" that you can see for 6000yds even when they shut down...... :D
Next thing we will see is some guy with a blue suit and red cape, a big red "S" icon with lazer beam eyes shooting us down on the 80th birthday of the release of the 1st superman comic.
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:aok Would beat the "Flying Pumpkin". :uhoh
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I honestly think disabling field supplies from the M3 and having the 251 be the only field supply carrier for GVs would be the quickest and best option to have everyone be happy or at least ok with the setup...feel like it would still leave town resupply at a pretty OP level but its whatever now, just want to see a change from having to kill congo lines of m3s to take a field.
sounds good...I believe the 251 is a bit slower but has a little better armor so it's not so vulnerable to straffing runs... I'll second junky motion
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I would like to see nothing changed. That is IF overland speed was greatly reduced for the M3 and 251, but road use would allow it to attain maximum speed. So (for example) if someone wanted to invest a great deal of time, they could still play AH the way they want and currently do but with a time penalty. If they wanted to go as fast as they could, they would be easy to find on the road and to destroy for most players.
Good compromise for the betterment of the game?
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I am gonna stir it up here. What's killing combat? Squads that leave the immediate area when there is anything but a vulch in their favor or they no longer have a numbers or altitude advantage. The Pigs started our squad night on a vulched field last night. Eventually most of the Bishop heroes just disappeared when we finally got up into the air. Two Bishop bases fell quickly in short order and still those leet pilots never showed again. I don't think supply is a problem, I think RTB in fear 😱 is the problem.
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Since Titanic Tuesday ended POTW has used Tuesday night as our squad night. I cannot remember us not doing squad night all of these years. We launch between 12-24 pigs and we go break things and shoot down red icons for 2 or so hours every Tuesday night. We don't run away, we get mostly abandoned by our country for what ever issues cause them to leave us holding the bag. Sooo, we double down and break more stuff and make life as horrible as possible for anything with a red icon that comes near us.
And like clock work all of these years just like Waystin described it, when we get in the air as POTW the red guys go somewhere else. They do come back "if" they can get their whole country to fight us. Even numbers, that lasts just so long and suddenly POTW is alone over an empty field.
This must be why POTW always gets the stinky end of the stick in FSO. Over the years we have gotten used to the smell and it terrifies the red guys to be attacked by crazy smelly people beating them with stinky sticks.
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That happens on all sides, Waystin. There's nothing special about an attack petering out, regardless of who is on the attack or defending. Knights attacked A78 last night for a while, then stopped cold for some reason. It was a lot of fun for the hour or so that it lasted. I guess you guys got tired of the fight, but I'm not sure. Ultimately, I think, it's a good defense that pours the bucket of water on an attack.
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And like clock work all of these years just like Waystin described it, when we get in the air as POTW the red guys go somewhere else.
That did not happen at A78 last night. Maybe it wasn't the pigs, but the Knights flat out stopped attacking it after a while. It was a lot of fun while it lasted, though. Lot's of white knuckle flying in 5 and 6 on me's.
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That did not happen at A78 last night. Maybe it wasn't the pigs, but the Knights flat out stopped attacking it after a while. It was a lot of fun while it lasted, though. Lot's of white knuckle flying in 5 and 6 on me's.
I was not flying last night. However, I can probably guess what happened to that fight because I fly knights and see fights die and mostly for the same reasons. And I will assume that defenders kept upping planes to defend.
1. One or two players got shot down by the attackers, received maximum butt hurt levels, jumped in the 88s and started lobbing shells into the fur ball. I would give this a 50% chance of what happened.
2. A group of players came from another base in 262s to pick the attackers without actually having to fight. 10%
3. Only a few players stayed in defensive fighters while the rest upped large numbers of wirbs. 10%
4. If it wasn’t a base take attempt the attacker’s got bored because the defenders just circled in ack. 10%
5. A larger fight started on the other side of the map. 20%
This is of course pure speculation but is what I personally see happen to most none base take fights on a nightly basis. Now there are a few squads in each opposing country that do defend very aggressively I those are always the best fights. (Bacon brigade, 56th, AKs, and a few others)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I am gonna stir it up here. What's killing combat? Squads that leave the immediate area when there is anything but a vulch in their favor or they no longer have a numbers or altitude advantage. The Pigs started our squad night on a vulched field last night. Eventually most of the Bishop heroes just disappeared when we finally got up into the air. Two Bishop bases fell quickly in short order and still those leet pilots never showed again. I don't think supply is a problem, I think RTB in fear 😱 is the problem.
you may want to rethink that whole statement of rtb from the field, as I don't want to get into in this thread but one cant upped from a capped and takes a bit of time to get there when upping from one further back as you did. I turn your attention to exhibit a in "chutes not opening". hard to get that film when not defending a capped vulched base sir. best day to you.
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Since Titanic Tuesday ended POTW has used Tuesday night as our squad night. I cannot remember us not doing squad night all of these years. We launch between 12-24 pigs and we go break things and shoot down red icons for 2 or so hours every Tuesday night. We don't run away, we get mostly abandoned by our country for what ever issues cause them to leave us holding the bag. Sooo, we double down and break more stuff and make life as horrible as possible for anything with a red icon that comes near us.
And like clock work all of these years just like Waystin described it, when we get in the air as POTW the red guys go somewhere else. They do come back "if" they can get their whole country to fight us. Even numbers, that lasts just so long and suddenly POTW is alone over an empty field.
This must be why POTW always gets the stinky end of the stick in FSO. Over the years we have gotten used to the smell and it terrifies the red guys to be attacked by crazy smelly people beating them with stinky sticks.
again see above post, and yes when you bring that many no one will up except for a few anti-horders that is
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you may want to rethink that whole statement of rtb from the field, as I don't want to get into in this thread but one cant upped from a capped and takes a bit of time to get there when upping from one further back as you did. I turn your attention to exhibit a in "chutes not opening". hard to get that film when not defending a capped vulched base sir. best day to you.
I gave you girls two freebies on the runway. How many times do I need to up at that field to make you happy Flippth? Of course I came at you with some parity from a field further back. Where did you girls go after that? Easier pickings in a safer horde I am sure. Even the jet left. Of course Drudge had to protect her score. RTB in fear I tell ya. Never saw you ladies the rest of the night. :aok
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This is an eternal argument: one guy gets the upper hand over another guy, so the other guy ups from further back, returns, and gains the upper hand over the first guy, then the first guy egresses. Who occupies the higher moral ground? The guy that was smart and left the fight area first to up further back instead of getting pounced upon on the runway, or the guy that got the upper hand first and had his way and drove the second guy back. Talk amongst yourselves.
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Many of the WWII films I've seen said that having alt is a good thing.
Guess they were wrong huh?
Coogan
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Many of the WWII films I've seen said that having alt is a good thing.
Guess they were wrong huh?
Coogan
They also were able to instantly reup 25 miles maximum from the action seconds after being shot down, or god forbid killed, because there were unlimited lives in WWII... :old:
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They also were able to instantly reup 25 miles maximum from the action seconds after being shot down, or god forbid killed, because there were unlimited lives in WWII... :old:
Umm, I was just talking about altitude. Didn't want to delve too deep into things.
Glad you did though. :rock
Coogan
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This is an eternal argument: one guy gets the upper hand over another guy, so the other guy ups from further back, returns, and gains the upper hand over the first guy, then the first guy egresses. Who occupies the higher moral ground? The guy that was smart and left the fight area first to up further back instead of getting pounced upon on the runway, or the guy that got the upper hand first and had his way and drove the second guy back. Talk amongst yourselves.
And and there is always that one guy that adds his two cents who has no horse in the race. Read and don't type. :aok
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you may want to rethink that whole statement of rtb from the field, as I don't want to get into in this thread but one cant upped from a capped and takes a bit of time to get there when upping from one further back as you did. I turn your attention to exhibit a in "chutes not opening". hard to get that film when not defending a capped vulched base sir. best day to you.
When I first got to that fight you guys had GVs on the field, rolling into town, 4 fighters over the field and a Dar bar coming in....I logged off when it was a green blob over your field....
Waystins observation of that particular fight is absolutely correct....the bishops vanished like a fart in the wind after they started to have to actual fight.
But the only issue with that is that there is nothing HTC can do to change that....and when people like me call people like that out for doing it....I get pointed out as the bad guy...but hey you guys do you, I can at least count on FSO and KOTH for good fights. Both of which have set rules which force people to fight.
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And and there is always that one guy that adds his two cents who has no horse in the race. Read and don't type. :aok
I'll be here all week.
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4 fighters over the field and a Dar bar coming in....I logged off when it was a green blob over your field....
Maybe that's were the disconnect is. 4 Bishop fighters over a knight field isn't the same thing as a green blob of Knight fighters over a Bishop field.
And was this over field A78? North side of that western island, early evening EST? I was there when the red blob arrived, bunch of ponies iirc. It was fun. Lasted like an hour or so, and then it stopped.
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Maybe that's were the disconnect is. 4 Bishop fighters over a knight field isn't the same thing as a green blob of Knight fighters over a Bishop field.
And was this over field A78? North side of that western island, early evening EST? I was there when the red blob arrived, bunch of ponies iirc. It was fun. Lasted like an hour or so, and then it stopped.
I'll be here all week.
No, it wasn't and the horde was over the rook field...then ended up over the bish field in opposite fashion. Their players vanished in droves and the only time they were fighting was with alt, with numbers, or with HOs.....and sometimes all at the same time....Viper66, Gremlin and one other stuck around for a minute...I respect those type of players(not when they HO me though)
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Maybe that's were the disconnect is. 4 Bishop fighters over a knight field isn't the same thing as a green blob of Knight fighters over a Bishop field.
And was this over field A78? North side of that western island, early evening EST? I was there when the red blob arrived, bunch of ponies iirc. It was fun. Lasted like an hour or so, and then it stopped.
As the "Pigs" fight for Rook at the moment and they were fighting Bish..... where do the Knights you keep talking about come in?
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I thought they were on knights, my bad.
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I thought they were on knights, my bad.
Now you understand Sir. :bhead
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As the "Pigs" fight for Rook at the moment and they were fighting Bish..... where do the Knights you keep talking about come in?
Usually with alt and numbers and they won't get their feet wet unless they have numbers. At least since POTW left the knights they finally got motivated and do something instead of disappereing all the time leaving POTW out in cold with a red cloud to fight. Towards the end of being on the knights side we would avoid green guys and go break our own choice of targets to pick a fight. Problem was the green guys kept following us around getting in the way, then leaving us with the stinky end of the stick to deal with.
At least last night no one gave us a reason to up the POTW 30mm armed Blowdryer wing and hunt them down. Very few get away from us, after all these years we have the perks.
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I gave you girls two freebies on the runway. How many times do I need to up at that field to make you happy Flippth? Of course I came at you with some parity from a field further back. Where did you girls go after that? Easier pickings in a safer horde I am sure. Even the jet left. Of course Drudge had to protect her score. RTB in fear I tell ya. Never saw you ladies the rest of the night. :aok
I posted a video in bug reports called chutes not opening. that film Is during yalls base take there. it shows me and three other squaddies there and the other two was on the way. doright was the c47 I shot down and then made two passes trying to get the troops but had nothing to shoot at. so again wasted I say to you check your facts.
and I am sure roles reversed I wouldn't be on the forum trying to toot my horn on how I ran a fight off from a field that I brought 12+ fighters to when there was 5of us there and then complain because we don't reup immediately in a capped and vulched field. three of us left from a base across the water and the the others lifted from the base yall took right after. but honestly is there any reason for three fighters to go into that kinda horde? only but to up a few kill scores and give some other wise pathetic pilot a big head who normally in a 1v1 situation runs straight to the deck as fast as his plane will go praying to baby jesus that he can make it to the ack before the boogy man gets him?
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When I first got to that fight you guys had GVs on the field, rolling into town, 4 fighters over the field and a Dar bar coming in....I logged off when it was a green blob over your field....
Waystins observation of that particular fight is absolutely correct....the bishops vanished like a fart in the wind after they started to have to actual fight.
But the only issue with that is that there is nothing HTC can do to change that....and when people like me call people like that out for doing it....I get pointed out as the bad guy...but hey you guys do you, I can at least count on FSO and KOTH for good fights. Both of which have set rules which force people to fight.
well being as you weren't there maybe you should stay out of the conversation? We did not vanish like a fart, we were outnumbered and outgunned and again we upped from further back base and returned to the fight as per the video I posted. and again when you bring the whole swine squad and 56th squad plus all the other tag alongs that are normally in m3 resupping yall fields and manning the field guns with you we did get over run, but we also returned multiple times trying to defend. there are some hordes you cant defend against.
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I posted a video in bug reports called chutes not opening. that film Is during yalls base take there. it shows me and three other squaddies there and the other two was on the way. doright was the c47 I shot down and then made two passes trying to get the troops but had nothing to shoot at. so again wasted I say to you check your facts.
and I am sure roles reversed I wouldn't be on the forum trying to toot my horn on how I ran a fight off from a field that I brought 12+ fighters to when there was 5of us there and then complain because we don't reup immediately in a capped and vulched field. three of us left from a base across the water and the the others lifted from the base yall took right after. but honestly is there any reason for three fighters to go into that kinda horde? only but to up a few kill scores and give some other wise pathetic pilot a big head who normally in a 1v1 situation runs straight to the deck as fast as his plane will go praying to baby jesus that he can make it to the ack before the boogy man gets him?
No names were put out there and yet you opened you your yapper. No one called you out, you stepped up and admitted your squad RTB'd in fear. It's ok. If I had a superior squadron like the Pigs on my butt, i would leave the area as well. Ya'll keep getting your kills on the edges, but stay out the way when the varsity shows up. Ok? RTB in fear Anti-bored. :aok
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but honestly is there any reason for three fighters to go into that kinda horde?
Dude! That's the best kind of fight! You can watch them tripping all over themselves trying to get you. Occasionally they shoot each other down, sometimes they lose control and augur (...well...nothing wrong with that, in my humble opinion...), you may even get a few hits on one or the other of them. At the end of the fight you are covered in glory, children ask for your autograph and beautiful women want to be your girlfriends, while the mob members mumble and argue over which one of them really deserves your kill.
- oldman (you may now return to your purse fight)
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well being as you weren't there maybe you should stay out of the conversation? We did not vanish like a fart, we were outnumbered and outgunned and again we upped from further back base and returned to the fight as per the video I posted. and again when you bring the whole swine squad and 56th squad plus all the other tag alongs that are normally in m3 resupping yall fields and manning the field guns with you we did get over run, but we also returned multiple times trying to defend. there are some hordes you cant defend against.
Did you read my post...I was there and left once it turned into a green blob above your field.
Why did it turn I to a green blob....because bishops vanished without a trace...
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No names were put out there and yet you opened you your yapper. No one called you out, you stepped up and admitted your squad RTB'd in fear. It's ok. If I had a superior squadron like the Pigs on my butt, i would leave the area as well. Ya'll keep getting your kills on the edges, but stay out the way when the varsity shows up. Ok? RTB in fear Anti-bored. :aok
i didnt say anyone rtb where did you get that?
and this aint the place for squad dissing, but i do think its sad you rest your squads accomplishments on a huge horde. but if my squad never got top rank in fso and challenges i guess you have to be proud some where poppa swine.
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Did you read my post...I was there and left once it turned into a green blob above your field.
Why did it turn I to a green blob....because bishops vanished without a trace...
yes i did read it
i didnt save the previous film before reupping from a back base but when i got back and shot the c47 down there was 10 rooks to 2 bishop, no one can win in those numbers no one. and again if yall have to rest accomplishments on those kinda numbers so be it but i remember when the numbers were a lil more fair we beat yall back to the base twice and vulched some unnamed planes on yalls runway (twice) :rock :devil
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Dude! That's the best kind of fight! You can watch them tripping all over themselves trying to get you. Occasionally they shoot each other down, sometimes they lose control and augur (...well...nothing wrong with that, in my humble opinion...), you may even get a few hits on one or the other of them. At the end of the fight you are covered in glory, children ask for your autograph and beautiful women want to be your girlfriends, while the mob members mumble and argue over which one of them really deserves your kill.
- oldman (you may now return to your purse fight)
Well timed commercial break from the P.F. Oldman! :rofl
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As the "Pigs" fight for Rook at the moment and they were fighting Bish..... where do the Knights you keep talking about come in?
3 sided wars are awesome!
It is like "menage a trois" with 3 sexes :banana:
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i didnt say anyone rtb where did you get that?
and this aint the place for squad dissing, but i do think its sad you rest your squads accomplishments on a huge horde. but if my squad never got top rank in fso and challenges i guess you have to be proud some where poppa swine.
Did you hear something Junky? There is no one in the air but I still hear someone yammering like they mean something. It is probably better you and your grade school buds went to fight the Knights that evening anyway, you can keep your meaningful accomplishments intact. At least the 162nd had the peanutz to stick around. Antibored in Full fear RTB. :aok
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BBS FUSS! :x
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Did you hear something Junky? There is no one in the air but I still hear someone yammering like they mean something. It is probably better you and your grade school buds went to fight the Knights that evening anyway, you can keep your meaningful accomplishments intact. At least the 162nd had the peanutz to stick around. Antibored in Full fear RTB. :aok
Whatever...we all know whats up :ahand
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I honestly think disabling field supplies from the M3 and having the 251 be the only field supply carrier for GVs would be the quickest and best option to have everyone be happy or at least ok with the setup...feel like it would still leave town resupply at a pretty OP level but its whatever now, just want to see a change from having to kill congo lines of m3s to take a field.
I think it would be interesting to see this suggestion as the next experiment, to see how much difference it makes.
Really I think it'd be cool if HTC made a drivable version of the Opel Blitz truck that's in the hangar and have that be the only field supply delivery vehicle. Slower and more vulnerable than either halftrack but much more realistic in the role of cargo delivery.
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yes i did read it
i didnt save the previous film before reupping from a back base but when i got back and shot the c47 down there was 10 rooks to 2 bishop, no one can win in those numbers no one. and again if yall have to rest accomplishments on those kinda numbers so be it but i remember when the numbers were a lil more fair we beat yall back to the base twice and vulched some unnamed planes on yalls runway (twice) :rock :devil
First off, I got vulched twice then that fight swung once I got in the air and I called the pigs over to that fight....and if I remember there was a 4v me in there where I took one of you with me....wait who was that one I took with me???.....YOU!!!! Hahahahahaha
:ahand
Whatever...we all know whats up :ahand
Know What? That you guys don't like fighting us because it messes up your beloved fighter scores...Judge has a 13 K/D and he runs to friends anytime we engage same with Hartmann....like I said at least we still have FSO and KOTH where y'all get forced into fighting us.
Oh and you shouldn't use :ahand as often as you do....because last I looked you can't beat me 1v1 in any plane in the line up. :ahand
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As the starter of the original topic I hereby officialy declare this thread as derailed :old:
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As the starter of the original topic I hereby officialy declare this thread as derailed :old:
HiTech hates German Iron!!!! :noid
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First off, I got vulched twice then that fight swung once I got in the air and I called the pigs over to that fight....and if I remember there was a 4v me in there where I took one of you with me....wait who was that one I took with me???.....YOU!!!! Hahahahahaha
:ahand
Know What? That you guys don't like fighting us because it messes up your beloved fighter scores...Judge has a 13 K/D and he runs to friends anytime we engage same with Hartmann....like I said at least we still have FSO and KOTH where y'all get forced into fighting us.
Oh and you shouldn't use :ahand as often as you do....because last I looked you can't beat me 1v1 in any plane in the line up. :ahand
Your so full of it dude...
Noone cares about ur 1v1...
YES JUNKY CAN BEAT ME 1V1....
Do you feel better about yourself now...I suck at 1v1 dude...
Noone runs from you or your squad...
Forced into fighting my rear end too...I have a small squad and can get more kills than y'all in FSO with your freaking 20 pilots...
You need to stop lyin to everybody about what goes on in the game...like I said in game the other day...we've got the films just like you do...
Your rooks gang the piss outta us...we've got the films of it...and we keep coming back...time after time after time...don't BS yourself that we run from a fight....
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Whatever...we all know whats up :ahand
Nah. Me an you are about 50/50 when you are lucky. I don't know where you picked up some of these prima donnas though, they were all full of fight until the Pigs got off the runway. Then they went to find safe harbor in another horde on the other front. Did not even call your short bus out, your girl Flipth just stepped up on the stage and grabbed the mic and started derp derpping... LMAO RTB Fear I tell ya.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l2Sqc3POpzkj5r8SQ/giphy.gif)
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Your so full of it dude...
Noone cares about ur 1v1...
YES JUNKY CAN BEAT ME 1V1....
Do you feel better about yourself now...I suck at 1v1 dude...
Noone runs from you or your squad...
Forced into fighting my rear end too...I have a small squad and can get more kills than y'all in FSO with your freaking 20 pilots...
You need to stop lyin to everybody about what goes on in the game...like I said in game the other day...we've got the films just like you do...
Your rooks gang the piss outta us...we've got the films of it...and we keep coming back...time after time after time...don't BS yourself that we run from a fight....
Like I said the other day...I don't have any films...other then the ones I've got since getting a new computer so please post yours....my skill over your entire squad speaks enough...what you got film of me picking You? Cool everyone does...heck Flippz got one the other day when I picked him at a Bish/Knight fight....that one will be funny to watch. Difference is between us when I complain about gameplay I actually don't do it myself. Watch you and the rest of your HORDE gang, vulch, HO and on the next sortie talk on 200 about the same thing.
Grow some stones you little man....post these films...I truly interested in what you are going to show about me?
What a duel in K4s between Sawzaw and 1 where we split evenly 3-3....but leave out the ones in TA152s that I beat him 4-0 on?? Yea I had that film too.
Heck man my best duel ride aren't even Luftwaffe....my shades fly allied...remember that next time you're filming yourself getting killed....and remember I haven't picked a single plane I've flown in a duel for years.
Maybe you guys should pick up StarFox again at least he had real talent even if he was a pissant.
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is...is it the smell of hurt butts i smell?