Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: AKKuya on January 05, 2020, 05:35:50 AM
-
All these topics and posts seem to point out that we are abundant in so many players who know how to fix the game.
I had started a topic thread 7-8 years ago about the Aces High players buying the game from Dale. I offered up 1 million dollars from any future lotto winnings. He replied to the effect that it would be 5 times higher than my original amount. Haggling can begin when the money is available.
Option 1) We start a pool of lotto players and win the money to buy the game from Dale.
Option 2) We start a Kickstarter or GoFundMe campaign to buy the game from Dale.
Once the game is in the hands of the Aces High players who bought the game then, we hire all those experts to fix the game.
or,
The experts can take some time and look into becoming a Campaign Manager, AvA Staff member, or as some have pointed out about noob players needing to be shown the game and become a member of the AH Trainer Corps.
The game doesn't need to be fixed. It's a perfect sandbox for us all to play in based on our individual desires. There is a need for a more positive atmosphere in the enjoyment of playing. That's not up to Hitech. That's a player solution.
We need players who care about the game to help make the game more fun. That involves behind the scenes work. Thinking up ideas, turning those ideas into playable ideas, and having the courage to put those ideas out to the public.
Take this for example.
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,398747.0.html
I have another for Bombing Berlin and another for Luftwaffe Over Scotland. New ideas and new events.
Being a behind the scenes supporter is welcome also. Jump into the events that the volunteer players create. Bring your friends and squaddies for a short time out of the Main Arena.
For many of you reading this, you know I speak the truth of the matter. I put no humor in this post. A few will make fun of this. Many will agree and a few will find some issue to contest due to their nature. If I won huge amounts of cash, then I would buy the game and hire a staff to run it. (1 humor statement - just so I can have my bulldozer to destroy all the trees.)
:salute
-
The game doesn't need to be FIXED it needs to be TWEAKED. That's not a controversial statement. It's been done numerous times before.
-
I have to agree with you AKKuya. Until recently, my time on AH has dwindled to FSO's with an occasional appearance in the MA. The current fighter mentality in the MA reminds me of the line in the movie "Stripes"--"Never hit someone in anger unless you are absolutely sure you can get away with it." This is manifested in alt monkeys, picking, and waiting for a 3v1 advantage before engaging. When you add in the poor sportsmanship of goading and name calling, it is no wonder our player base in shrinking.
In addition to FSO I have been flying in the WWI arena on Friday and Saturday nights, the Monday Night Madness, and the WWI end of the year party event. These events are populated with players that are there to fight. These events also share a VOX channel so that all sides can talk to each other. The big surprise is that VOX and channel 200 are sources of giving kudos to opponents and humorous remarks. Poor sportsmanship is not tolerated by the players, just like the MA used to be. When there is this kind of player conduct the fun of AH comes rushing back.
We tell HiTech that we need two sides, smaller maps, better moderators, better graphics, and the list goes on. In short we want HiTech to legislate gameplay and better sportsmanship instead of taking on the responsibility ourselves. There are no parts of this game that are so broken that it can not attract and keep a large player base, that is unless it has to overcome players that do not display the maturity that used to be so prevalent in the AH MA.
IF our player base can project the attitude that we are all there to enjoy dogfighting/base taking, willing to help new players, and ready to mass squelch those players that spew venom over the radio channels, then we will have set AH apart from almost every other MMO out there. New players will stay and word of mouth will spread.
-
I have to agree with you AKKuya. Until recently, my time on AH has dwindled to FSO's with an occasional appearance in the MA. The current fighter mentality in the MA reminds me of the line in the movie "Stripes"--"Never hit someone in anger unless you are absolutely sure you can get away with it." This is manifested in alt monkeys, picking, and waiting for a 3v1 advantage before engaging. When you add in the poor sportsmanship of goading and name calling, it is no wonder our player base in shrinking.
In addition to FSO I have been flying in the WWI arena on Friday and Saturday nights, the Monday Night Madness, and the WWI end of the year party event. These events are populated with players that are there to fight. These events also share a VOX channel so that all sides can talk to each other. The big surprise is that VOX and channel 200 are sources of giving kudos to opponents and humorous remarks. Poor sportsmanship is not tolerated by the players, just like the MA used to be. When there is this kind of player conduct the fun of AH comes rushing back.
We tell HiTech that we need two sides, smaller maps, better moderators, better graphics, and the list goes on. In short we want HiTech to legislate gameplay and better sportsmanship instead of taking on the responsibility ourselves. There are no parts of this game that are so broken that it can not attract and keep a large player base, that is unless it has to overcome players that do not display the maturity that used to be so prevalent in the AH MA.
IF our player base can project the attitude that we are all there to enjoy dogfighting/base taking, willing to help new players, and ready to mass squelch those players that spew venom over the radio channels, then we will have set AH apart from almost every other MMO out there. New players will stay and word of mouth will spread.
“You can wish in one hand and s[p]it in the other—you will soon see which one fills up first.” - Old Redneck Proverb
Games require rules. It’s the nature of the beast.
And all the “let’s hold hands and sing kumbaya” sentiment in the world will not overcome gameplay mechanics that don’t support current player levels. If a map is too big to maintain interest, the interface is too difficult for a new player to grasp, et al. then self-policing becomes quite moot.
Toxicity is an issue, but that’s because the action required to offset it isn’t there for some. The ganging and other weak play is also more pronounced in this current environment. It’s a cycle driven by numbers. As numbers go up or down the ratio changes.
Don’t rely on the goodwill of the player base to solve this. It’s not going to happen. Yes, this is a game where the objective is to blow stuff up, however, when you can’t even see Santa on Christmas Eve without getting ganged that’s a problem—and the only fix is a forced change by Hitech. The players are not willing/able to do it themselves.
-
The experts can take some time and look into becoming a Campaign Manager, AvA Staff member, or as some have pointed out about noob players needing to be shown the game and become a member of the AH Trainer Corps.
The game doesn't need to be fixed. It's a perfect sandbox for us all to play in based on our individual desires. There is a need for a more positive atmosphere in the enjoyment of playing. That's not up to Hitech. That's a player solution.
You are definitely on the right track here. :salute for stating it so well.
I would jump at the chance to be a trainer. Unfortunately I am not good enough or practiced enough to qualify to teach dogfighting, and that's something an official trainer needs to be able to do. I would like to be involved in getting new pilots up to speed. I am looking at ways to present a new pilot's training class. (by the way, if anyone has ideas on this, I am starting a different thread so we don't hijack this one)
-
You are definitely on the right track here. :salute for stating it so well.
So how do you propose implementing the idea of forced goodwill?
-
Even if you got the game you would probably lose the genious behind it. That's what has happened to many companies. If you lose the talent the game is worth nothing.
-
Even if you got the game you would probably lose the genious behind it. That's what has happened to many companies. If you lose the talent the game is worth nothing.
I believe this is what happened to War Birds.
-
Maybe we should hold a crowd funded project to provide HT with enough money to advertise on twitch/mixer and youtube?
I don't get adverts on facebook anymore for games so it must mean that game companies have realized how hopeless it is to advertise on facebook.
-
I believe this is what happened to War Birds.
Wild Bill is what happened to Warbirds. No amount of genius can overcome that impediment.
-
Maybe we should hold a crowd funded project to provide HT with enough money to advertise on twitch/mixer and youtube?
I don't get adverts on facebook anymore for games so it must mean that game companies have realized how hopeless it is to advertise on facebook.
I believe Dale and Skuzzy both mentioned that the ROI with internet advertising has proven abysmal.
-
Vraciu, you and I seem to agree on the problem with AH in the MA. The decline of the classic fighter pilot aggressiveness and poor sportsmanship are draining the fun/player numbers from this game. You are correct in that a mass change in player attitude is not likely to happen. My point was that when this attitude DOES change the fun of AH comes back. The game tools are there.
Your position that HiTech needs to legislate our correct behavior is also faulty. All you have to do is look at society to see that increased laws are only mildly effective to change behavior.
In the MA if the local fighting is intense then the size of the map or number of sides become less important. Graphic eye candy is hardly noticeable in the heat of a good dogfight. The interface is not too intimidating for new players to overcome if the desire is there (look at DCS). Us veterans learned the interface and we are in no way savants.
Realistically, both the changes you suggest AND player attitude have to change at the same time. What AKKuya is correct in pointing out is that we can only change those things we have control of, namely our gameplay attitude.
-
So how do you propose implementing the idea of forced goodwill?
You don't force goodwill in an environment like this. You have to take disciplinary measures when necessary. But to foster "goodwill" you need the individual players, and especially the squad leaders, to create a culture of goodwill. In an environment like this one, your actions in game, the way you play and treat other players, will either have positive impact on the environment, or a negative impact. Always strive to make a positive impact. Squad leaders could have a strong influence by instituting a code of conduct that encourages that positive impact.
-
I believe Dale and Skuzzy both mentioned that the ROI with internet advertising has proven abysmal.
I see war thunder and world of warship adverts all the time. Are you saying that they are wasting money advertising and are too naive to realize that?
-
Vraciu, you and I seem to agree on the problem with AH in the MA. The decline of the classic fighter pilot aggressiveness and poor sportsmanship are draining the fun/player numbers from this game. You are correct in that a mass change in player attitude is not likely to happen. My point was that when this attitude DOES change the fun of AH comes back. The game tools are there.
Your position that HiTech needs to legislate our correct behavior is also faulty. All you have to do is look at society to see that increased laws are only mildly effective to change behavior.
In the MA if the local fighting is intense then the size of the map or number of sides become less important. Graphic eye candy is hardly noticeable in the heat of a good dogfight. The interface is not too intimidating for new players to overcome if the desire is there (look at DCS). Us veterans learned the interface and we are in no way savants.
Realistically, both the changes you suggest AND player attitude have to change at the same time. What AKKuya is correct in pointing out is that we can only change those things we have control of, namely our gameplay attitude.
Not all laws are effective, but a complete absence of law is completely ineffective.
In regard to AH the questions relate to environment, deterrence, and punishment.
Examples:
Environment can mean map size.
Deterrence can mean ENY.
Punishment can mean killshooter.
How these tools/rules are written can have a massive impact on gameplay and behavior.
-
I see war thunder and world of warship adverts all the time. Are you saying that they are wasting money advertising and are too naive to realize that?
They've posted about it multiple times. I can't speak to their mental/business outlook on things beyond what has been written. The impression I got is that it didn't pay off. Perhaps the current economic environment has changed that.
-
All these topics and posts seem to point out that we are abundant in so many players who know how to fix the game.
Well said AK. :aok
-
.
-
They've posted about it multiple times. I can't speak to their mental/business outlook on things beyond what has been written. The impression I got is that it didn't pay off.
I mean the company behind world of warships + war thunder.
If there was no effect why do they keep advertising?
-
I mean the company behind world of warships + war thunder.
If there was no effect why do they keep advertising?
Different minnows for different sharks.
-
Different minnows for different sharks.
I don't beleive that. I think the environment is fair for each creature.
So HTC advertised on facebook and got bad results. I have never seen an ad for AH on streaming sites or youtube yet. Maybe HTC should find a viral marketing company to get help?
-
I don't beleive that. I think the environment is fair for each creature.
So HTC advertised on facebook and got bad results. I have never seen an ad for AH on streaming sites or youtube yet. Maybe HTC should find a viral marketing company to get help?
Minnows = Advertising
Sharks = Potential Customers
Why do ads work there but not here?
Different minnows for different sharks.
-
I see war thunder and world of warship adverts all the time. Are you saying that they are wasting money advertising and are too naive to realize that?
They were speaking of the ROI for HTC.
That doesn't mean that is the ROI for other companies.
A target has to like what they see in the ad to choose to click on it, and the they have to like trial enough to to subscribe.
I don't know what their click-through-rate was, but from the tone of the comments lets say 2%. He has stated he is running "around" %1 conversion from trial. Which could even mean below 1%, but lets say 1%. And most of those may not stay longer than a month.
So getting ~1% of the 2% that clicked through of the fraction of people who noticed the impression....might be better burning the cash to save on heating costs.
If WT has snazzier ads that get attention better, and a high click-through-rate because those ads close the deal, and they are more successful in converting trials into revenue, then it might be a positive ROI for WT to run ads.
-
The game doesn't need to be fixed. It's a perfect sandbox for us all to play in based on our individual desires.
With all due respect, if you really think there are no changes to this game needed:
1. Why do you think 99% (>99%?) of the people who started a trial account decided not to pay for an account?
2. What happened to the ~700 nightly players we had at one time? And why is the player count continuing to drop?
If you got something that is working, I'm a big fan of just keeping things steady and let the good times roll. But when things aren't working, it seems to me eventually you need to be willing to roll the dice and risk change. Unless you think the down trends are only temporary fluctuation or you believe in Tinkerbell and Magic.
:salute
-
^^^^^^^^^ This.
I don't think a drastic overhaul is necessary but there are definitely a few sacred cows worthy of slaying.
-
I don't think a drastic overhaul is necessary
"Drastic" is apparently in the eye of the of the beholder.
One player went completely ape-sht crazy at the mere suggestion of slightly smaller maps, with slightly fewer bases, and slight reduce inter-base distance to reduce to dead-time people have to fly to get to action.
I think the game needs to have WWII planes and ships and tanks shooting at each other. All other possible variables should be on the table as far as I'm concerned. I'm willing to consider any change. Whatever will reverse the negative trends. I just think it is past the point that tiny little tweaks or or merely running another event is going to reverse course, but not that they are bad in and of themselves.
But maybe I'm wrong. It has been known to happen. :D
-
With all due respect, if you really think there are no changes to this game needed:
1. Why do you think 99% (>99%?) of the people who started a trial account decided not to pay for an account?
2. What happened to the ~700 nightly players we had at one time? And why is the player count continuing to drop?
If you got something that is working, I'm a big fan of just keeping things steady and let the good times roll. But when things aren't working, it seems to me eventually you need to be willing to roll the dice and risk change. Unless you think the down trends are only temporary fluctuation or you believe in Tinkerbell and Magic.
:salute
You don't know the answer to either question.
-
You don't know the answer to either question.
Nope. But I'm willing to explore the questions rather than just sit and think happy thoughts. I'm willing to admit there might be things that need to be changed or else we'd still have 700 players a night.
-
If you take the time to sift through the negative comments over in Steam, you will notice a couple of things.
1. Maintaining a free account to zip around empty arenas is off putting and not worth their time.
2. Paying a sub fee to zip around an arena that doesn't really have steady player numbers is not worth their money or time.
3. First look people are put off by the graphic composition and item nesting of the menus.
4. Some were upset about the, what they described as "poor" implementation of VR.
** I never had a problem with VR and those issues have been fixed by Dale **
5. The toxic community. We do have a volatile community both on the BBS and in game. There are steps Dale is taking to help in game.
6. The lack of a proper in game tutorial flight to help new comers understand the controls, order of operations (throttle full, kick rudder type of stuff). I suspect the biggest issue is new players that use a mouse.
Yes, I tried to take off this morning using a mouse only set up and ended up turning hard left and bouncing off of a gun emplacement. Yes, my rudder keys (not rudder trim) were set but no input from the right rudder key was registered until I got in to the air.
for what it's worth, these are the issues that pop up time and time again in the negative comments. It would be reasonable to take a hard look at these and figure out a way to rectify them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
for what it's worth, these are the issues that pop up time and time again in the negative comments. It would be reasonable to take a hard look at these and figure out a way to rectify them.
Or just shut up and think happy thoughts.
If you are in the forest, and you turn away and don't look at the bear, then that means he is not able to come eat you. It's magic. ;)
-
With all due respect, Aces High has never lacked community involvement. I'd go so far to say I've not played another game where paying customers contributed as much to the main parts of the game as what the AH community has. Map design, skins (absolutely huge for a flight sim), new player training, and events are all handled either mostly or completely by paying customers who just want to contribute. If there's now a lack of those folks to serve, I'd suggest it's a symptom of lower player numbers rather than a cause of it.
And as for community toxicity, AH is normal or even tame compared to other games. Daily players can be very competitive and the game itself lends itself to competition, so there is banter, but if you think the AH community is toxic I feel bad for your feelings if you actually go outside regularly.
-
Nope. But I'm willing to explore the questions rather than just sit and think happy thoughts. I'm willing to admit there might be things that need to be changed or else we'd still have 700 players a night.
Just like most of us.
-
And as for community toxicity, AH is normal or even tame compared to other games. Daily players can be very competitive and the game itself lends itself to competition, so there is banter, but if you think the AH community is toxic I feel bad for your feelings if you actually go outside regularly.
Thanks for proving my point and the point made in some of the negative comments on steam.
There is a difference between talking a bit of crap and being an out right schmuck.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Just like most of us.
Is it most? It's certainly not all. There is definitely a "shut up and think happy thoughts" vibe sometimes.
As if pointing out a problem is the same thing as having caused it, or ignoring a problem is the same thing as solving it.
-
Double the price.
-
"Drastic" is apparently in the eye of the of the beholder.
Agreed... as is represented by this thread
:rofl
-
There is a solid way for the AH community to help. The very best of a collaborative effort.
We have so many players who are knowledgeable about the game. Many are very good at helping new players. The method that will work the best revolves around outside the game to give the new players the information they need before going into the game.
Utilizing social media, the AH community create a comprehensive focal platform dubbed "Aves High Learning Center" or a better title suggested.
AHLC is created in YouTube as a channel for the uploading of player made tutorials.
1) What is the game?
2) How to find the website?
3) How to navigate website?
4) How to download game from website?
From there, add more tutorials explaining the process to cover all the basics of the game.
Players who know how to edit movies can add the films to the channel for great marketing potential.
The AHLC also would have a tailored made free website (Wix) to help organize the tutorial videos in categories. Whatever else needed to help.
The AHLC would also be linked in FB, Twitter and Snapchat for greater exposure.
A simple straight forward idea that just needs some volunteers who know how to do this. Volunteers willing to take some time to do this.
-
Again, who are you trying to convince?
-
If you got something that is working, I'm a big fan of just keeping things steady and let the good times roll. But when things aren't working, it seems to me eventually you need to be willing to roll the dice and risk change. Unless you think the down trends are only temporary fluctuation or you believe in Tinkerbell and Magic.
The problem with this thinking is that most suggestions fall into one of two categories:
1. Things that have been tried before, and didn't work.
2. Changes that would make Aces High a completely different game.
If it didn't work before, there is no reason that it would work now. (But things are different now) Not that different.
We don't want a different game, we want this one to have more people.
-
124 players on last night at 12AM eastern.
#mapsmatter
The single question is how can we reduce ganging? (We Cant). This game is incredibly difficult when you have P51Ds and Yak3s with a Ki84 and La7 chasing you..unless you are in a 262 in some cases, it's almost impossible to escape that. I wish icon colors would change to show that you'd get an assist if you kill them, maybe that would reduce ganging. It's a natural phenomenon that makes it tough. You wonder why there are so many runner and timid game players these days.
We can only do so much to reduce crap talkers. It's a high intense war game after all.
#mapsmatter
-
The problem with this thinking is that most suggestions fall into one of two categories:
1. Things that have been tried before, and didn't work.
2. Changes that would make Aces High a completely different game.
If it didn't work before, there is no reason that it would work now. (But things are different now) Not that different.
We don't want a different game, we want this one to have more people.
Times change. Tools and mechanisms to address shortcomings in previous experiments are available to be used. What used to work doesn't. What didn't work then very well might NOW.
-
Is it most? It's certainly not all. There is definitely a "shut up and think happy thoughts" vibe sometimes.
As if pointing out a problem is the same thing as having caused it, or ignoring a problem is the same thing as solving it.
Does it have to be all? People get to disagree. It's not a problem for adults.
-
We don't want a different game, we want this one to have more people.
That's OK, man. I'm sure the decade long downward numbers trend will suddenly reverse itself any day now, magically, all on it's own without needing to change the least little thing.
All you have to do is not look at the bear. ;)
-
Numbers are even lower in Warbirds. Is that for different reasons or the same ones?
-
Numbers are even lower in Warbirds. Is that for different reasons or the same ones?
Does it have to be either?
-
Does it have to be either?
Yes.
If you think I missed an alternative between same and different please enlighten us.
-
Yes.
If you think I missed an alternative between same and different please enlighten us.
Some of the same problems.
Some unique ones.
Is that not possible? Can't it be a combination?
-
Some of the same problems.
Some unique ones.
Is that not possible? Can't it be a combination?
Sorry, forgot who I was talking to. Yes of course it could be a combination of same and different reasons. I wasn't suggesting it had to be completely one or the other but I understand why you'd take it that way.
-
Yes, I tried to take off this morning using a mouse only set up and ended up turning hard left and bouncing off of a gun emplacement. Yes, my rudder keys (not rudder trim) were set but no input from the right rudder key was registered until I got in to the air.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I used a mouse last night to fly around and I had no issues at all getting into the air and flying around as long as I didnt touch it and let the auto takeoff do its thing
-
I believe this is what happened to War Birds.
My guess would be that WB lost most players to AH due to price.
-
Sorry, forgot who I was talking to. Yes of course it could be a combination of same and different reasons. I wasn't suggesting it had to be completely one or the other but I understand why you'd take it that way.
And I wouldn't know what those are anyway. ;)
As I've said, I've spent most of the last 20 years in either Aces High or Battlefield. I feel comfortable expressing an opinion about those, but I don't know enough about Warbirds to hazard an analysis.
My experience with Warbirds was very brief, yet ironically too long.
-
My guess would be that WB lost most players to AH due to price.
I like to think it's the better flight model.
-
Think the easiest way to change the game is change the way we play. Just little things. This is what I noticed just in the past week.
- give new players a chance. There was this guy that kept bringing b17's at 5k. He was getting killed alot. I looked at his score, I asked others to give him a kill or two, I got right behind him, got killed, a guy or two did the same. He still died a lot but I he had fun, as he kept coming.
-stop whining about people switching to other countries.
-forget about trying to have honor in this game and concentrate on having fun
-change in code will not make it more fun but your attitude change and expectations will
Feel free to add more or complain. Code can't change how we play.
semp
-
I like to think it's the better flight model.
The better flight model came with AH2. At that time WB was already practically without players. But yes, the game itself also contributes. AH became both more advanced and cheaper. Nevertheless some players stayed in WB, likely for the same reason some players stick with AH. With an unlimited players open world 24h persistent arena in IL2, WT, or DCS below the monthly fee of AH, it would soon be where WB is now.
-
The better flight model came with AH2. ...
I believe the flight model was the best in the world right from the start.
-
Think the easiest way to change the game is change the way we play. Just little things. This is what I noticed just in the past week.
- give new players a chance. There was this guy that kept bringing b17's at 5k. He was getting killed alot. I looked at his score, I asked others to give him a kill or two, I got right behind him, got killed, a guy or two did the same. He still died a lot but I he had fun, as he kept coming.
-stop whining about people switching to other countries.
-forget about trying to have honor in this game and concentrate on having fun
-change in code will not make it more fun but your attitude change and expectations will
Feel free to add more or complain. Code can't change how we play.
semp
Wanna bet?
-
The better flight model came with AH2. At that time WB was already practically without players. But yes, the game itself also contributes. AH became both more advanced and cheaper. Nevertheless some players stayed in WB, likely for the same reason some players stick with AH. With an unlimited players open world 24h persistent arena in IL2, WT, or DCS below the monthly fee of AH, it would soon be where WB is now.
I found the AH flight model annoying when I first started, specifically the head shift and tail wag aspects. I got used to the former but the latter has never sat right with me. So, if anything, the differences between WBs and here were an impediment not an attraction. People don’t like change...
-
If you take the time to sift through the negative comments over in Steam, you will notice a couple of things.
1. Maintaining a free account to zip around empty arenas is off putting and not worth their time.
2. Paying a sub fee to zip around an arena that doesn't really have steady player numbers is not worth their money or time.
This can be addressed with a few mid level FREE 24x7 rides, a real free account. Then for the WT weenies only when those few rides are in mouse mode flying give them a limited F3 mode. Make sure with mouse flying the rudder keys have authority on the ground. Only Lazor can abuse it and so what. I would recommend the few free rides cannot carry ordinance, just air to air ability. That would probably cut down on the chances of a persistent freeloader sub culture. Make all manned guns free and even give them one tank. PanzerF or T34\65 or an M4 and let them run supplies with the M3. Let them be bomber gunners, lord knows they might make some friends being helpful and want to upgrade and pay $14.95 to be with their friends.
Hardcore killer loners who play combat games are not the majority. It's people playing to be entertained with the possibility of being involved with other players accomplishing something together. Games today are social media nexus, entertainment, and accomplishing something in a sedentary culture. That is part of why WT is still with us becasue it targeted those factors from it's inception. The complaints at Steam are indicators of what none baby boomers are looking for. Baby boomers don't mind suffering for their fun, it's generational. The customers at Steam refuse to suffer to have fun and vote with their feet and wallets. All of these how to save AH discussions fail becasue the solutions are only appealing to baby boomers and our egos.
Any of you who play other games not DCS or IL2 know what I'm describing about none baby boomer game players. AH3 is not attractive to younger people as it's being made available to them now. AH becasue of it's low numbers in the MA is very slow, way too slow for the younger generations. All of you gents in this post should get a free account at PlanetSide 2 and play for a month. Then rethink the differences in game flow speed related to younger demographic game playing expectations. That is part of why I've taken up playing PlanetSide 2 so I can observe the only real demographic with any numbers out there for the future of AH. PS2 reminds me of the MA in 2007 and plays a lot like the MA back then right down to it being a 3 country war. Hitech obviously knows something since PS2 can get upwards sometimes of 3000 players into an 8km x 8km arena.
You old fougies are missing the mark.
-
Curious which aircraft you would pick for the freebie?
-
Wanna bet?
I was referring to player behavior. Code won't change that.
semp
-
I was referring to player behavior. Code won't change that.
semp
Depends on the type of behavior, but I see your point.
-
The game doesn't need to be FIXED it needs to be TWEAKED.
You are correct. Which was my OP ended with involving player style solutions.
You are definitely on the right track here. :salute for stating it so well.
I would jump at the chance to be a trainer. Unfortunately I am not good enough or practiced enough to qualify to teach dogfighting, and that's something an official trainer needs to be able to do. I would like to be involved in getting new pilots up to speed. I am looking at ways to present a new pilot's training class. (by the way, if anyone has ideas on this, I am starting a different thread so we don't hijack this one)
Training doesn't mean dogfighting. Train people with what you know. Ask the Training staff how you can help.
Even if you got the game you would probably lose the genious behind it. That's what has happened to many companies. If you lose the talent the game is worth nothing.
Don't you think I would keep HiTech on as an advisor?
Maybe we should hold a crowd funded project to provide HT with enough money to advertise on twitch/mixer and youtube?
I don't get adverts on facebook anymore for games so it must mean that game companies have realized how hopeless it is to advertise on facebook.
Ask Dale publicly in the forum and see what the response is.
All these topics and posts seem to point out that we are abundant in so many players who know how to fix the game.
Well said AK. :aok
Thanks. :salute
With all due respect, if you really think there are no changes to this game needed:
1. Why do you think 99% (>99%?) of the people who started a trial account decided not to pay for an account?
2. What happened to the ~700 nightly players we had at one time? And why is the player count continuing to drop?
If you got something that is working, I'm a big fan of just keeping things steady and let the good times roll. But when things aren't working, it seems to me eventually you need to be willing to roll the dice and risk change. Unless you think the down trends are only temporary fluctuation or you believe in Tinkerbell and Magic.
:salute
What do you think happened to all those players? Do you have any ideas to bring them back?
Double the price.
Illuminate on this one please?
Again, who are you trying to convince?
Convince is the word I wouldn't use. Inspire would be the word.
The problem with this thinking is that most suggestions fall into one of two categories:
1. Things that have been tried before, and didn't work.
2. Changes that would make Aces High a completely different game.
If it didn't work before, there is no reason that it would work now. (But things are different now) Not that different.
We don't want a different game, we want this one to have more people.
Things tried before in a past situation may work in a current situation. Maybe, the new situation would have new players ideas. Better to try then not try at all.
I picked these replies as best correspond to my OP and 2nd Post. Does anybody want to help make AH better? If you do, then PM me with what you can do and together we might be a positive effect on the near future of the game.
:salute
-
Curious which aircraft you would pick for the freebie?
Spit5 and 109f. Heck even a P40N.
Great for the European crowd.
Not to hard where they can never get a kill. Turn fairly well and have decent guns.
None have ord.
They are not too easy Where a player would not subscribe anymore to fly those planes for free. A returning vet would not be able to wreck the arena in them.
It would be a great promotion to get players in the game while saying it's "free to play". Would create much larger fights overall. Would allow people to learn game better before subscribing. Would definitely encourage and incentivize them to subscribe in order to fly that better plane.
More targets in the sky to fight against along with more maps that are smaller and suited for quicker action, would bring back over 200 a night again.
If Hitech can fix the match play for team match or where players can pick who they are fighting against would be huge as well.
The match play needs to have AI come one at a time, and planes should fly like are supposed to fly. A B17 doing 8G turns would be gamey and a turnoff to many people. Especially getting ganged by them all at the same time. Players only need one AI to fight against.
No one uses match play anymore for those 2 reasons and it shouldn't be ignored. If it cannot be fixed. Scrap it and do a fighter bowl. Its that simple.
-
I believe the flight model was the best in the world right from the start.
The effect of a better or worse simulation on game play is minimal. Of course, it allows players to talk themselves into believing to be flying the real thing, even though it completely misses the aspect of having to operate complex machinery like in reality. And at least trim tabs work the wrong way around.
-
Just what the world needs...another MAKE ACES HIGH GREAT AGAIN thread :bhead
-
Convince is the word I wouldn't use. Inspire would be the word.
Sorry, I wasn't referring to your post. Just all the guys that seem to think that if they argue their point until the players on the BBS agree with them that it will somehow bring about a game change.
-
Sorry, I wasn't referring to your post. Just all the guys that seem to think that if they argue their point until the players on the BBS agree with them that it will somehow bring about a game change.
No prob. Wasn't sure. Thanks for the clarification. :salute
-
War Thunder Tanks have a subsciption model, needed in simulator mode (same as War Thunder Planes), but you can buy stuff you desperately need without a subscription (like camoflage, or new planes, tanks, insignias etc).
WarThunder tanks have some things that might or not interest you : the destructable terrain is only a part of the big map, if you want to kill tanks / whatever, you fly to that small part of the world, else you are free to dogfight it out outside of it.
The tankers can roam inside their small world, and sometimes get bombed etc, or shoot somone down with an AAA vehicle.
-
Sorry, I wasn't referring to your post. Just all the guys that seem to think that if they argue their point until the players on the BBS agree with them that it will somehow bring about a game change.
Nobody thinks that.
-
Sorry, I wasn't referring to your post. Just all the guys that seem to think that if they argue their point until the players on the BBS agree with them that it will somehow bring about a game change.
Did anyone force you to read any thread? If you don't like what is being discussed, simply don't read the thread.
Isn't it exactly that easy?
-
Did anyone force you to read any thread? If you don't like what is being discussed, simply don't read the thread.
Isn't it exactly that easy?
You didn't like what I posted?
-
You didn't like what I posted?
You didn't like what I posted?
-
People are naturally competetive so its no surprise people compete on the forums as well.
What HT needs is some up and coming ad firm who are looking to make a name for themselves and use all the latest methods/platforms for a small price.
-
The effect of a better or worse simulation on game play is minimal. Of course, it allows players to talk themselves into believing to be flying the real thing, even though it completely misses the aspect of having to operate complex machinery like in reality. And at least trim tabs work the wrong way around.
I agree that many players don't appreciate how good the flight model is but in fact it does teach you enough to really fly.
The engine management model is simplified on purpose because those things are second nature to a fighter pilot by the time he gets into combat. So flying real aircraft does require additional training.
What do you think is wrong with trim tabs?
-
You didn't like what I posted?
Pro tip. Arguing like a teenager hurts your credibility.
-
Pro tip. Arguing like a teenager hurts your credibility.
When in Rome...
-
And as for community toxicity, AH is normal or even tame compared to other games. Daily players can be very competitive and the game itself lends itself to competition, so there is banter, but if you think the AH community is toxic I feel bad for your feelings if you actually go outside regularly.
That other games are as bad, or worse, doesn't lessen the toxic effect. We have actually seen how the unpleasant manners of just a few players can drive people out of an arena. At AH's present stage, driving them out of an arena essentially drives them out of the game. Telling them to just man up and ignore the abuse, especially when they're evaluating whether they want to invest the time and money in AH, likely leads some to ask themselves, "Why?"
There's no practical way to eliminate rudeness and chest-thumping, but it would certainly be nice if people who act that way tried to stifle themselves a bit.
- oldman
-
That other games are as bad, or worse, doesn't lessen the toxic effect. We have actually seen how the unpleasant manners of just a few players can drive people out of an arena. At AH's present stage, driving them out of an arena essentially drives them out of the game. Telling them to just man up and ignore the abuse, especially when they're evaluating whether they want to invest the time and money in AH, likely leads some to ask themselves, "Why?"
There's no practical way to eliminate rudeness and chest-thumping, but it would certainly be nice if people who act that way tried to stifle themselves a bit.
- oldman
Own-country com only.
I don't remember what Warbirds had but I don't remember cross-country there. Been awhile though.
-
How about someone (i dont know how to btw) setting up a free arena very much like the current main arena, but with just 2 sides maybe... give it a try for a while, smallish map, anyone can join in, perhaps some of you guys will just bear with it for a bit and join in as well to make it fun etc and see how if feels? i'm not suggesting leaving a free MA up for ever as of course HTC must have revenue but it may answer a few questions and even be the catalyst for some ideas and resolutions....?
-
How about someone (i dont know how to btw) setting up a free arena very much like the current main arena, but with just 2 sides maybe... give it a try for a while, smallish map, anyone can join in, perhaps some of you guys will just bear with it for a bit and join in as well to make it fun etc and see how if feels? i'm not suggesting leaving a free MA up for ever as of course HTC must have revenue but it may answer a few questions and even be the catalyst for some ideas and resolutions....?
Prying people out of the MA is near-impossible for a variety of reasons.
-
Own-country com only.
I don't remember what Warbirds had but I don't remember cross-country there. Been awhile though.
WBs did have cross-country, similar to 200. One other oddity with comms on WBs at the time was at some point someone, might've been Columbo discovered that anybody could transmit on the other country's country channel but couldn't see replies. They spent an evening trolling the other side to many cries of HAX!!! and SPIEZ!!! from the other country.
One thing I find really ironic about the people saying cross country is the debil is I've squelched FAR more people for what they were talking about on channel 2 vs squelching people from the other countries. YMMV.
Wiley.
-
WBs did have cross-country, similar to 200. One other oddity with comms on WBs at the time was at some point someone, might've been Columbo discovered that anybody could transmit on the other country's country channel but couldn't see replies. They spent an evening trolling the other side to many cries of HAX!!! and SPIEZ!!! from the other country.
One thing I find really ironic about the people saying cross country is the debil is I've squelched FAR more people for what they were talking about on channel 2 vs squelching people from the other countries. YMMV.
Wiley.
:rofl
Epic.
Good old Columbo.
-
I agree that many players don't appreciate how good the flight model is but in fact it does teach you enough to really fly.
Flight models of other games are good enough for that, too. All of them are better than pre-computer synthetic flight training devices, which were certified to be good enough to be used to learn flying. As for game-play, there is a level of "good enough". It's nice that the planes match available data, but that only helps to limit bbs crying, it doesn't help to make the game more entertaining.
The engine management model is simplified on purpose because those things are second nature to a fighter pilot by the time he gets into combat. So flying real aircraft does require additional training.
Given the low number of hours at least some war-time pilots had I doubt anything became second nature. And it's not only the engine. Automatic fuel system, arbitrary head movements, no gun-jams, can't blow tires on landing, ... Plus the way we're abusing the planes by continuously firewalling throttles, killing ignition mid-flight, spinning with flaps-down, loading them beyond MOTM ... I'm not trying to argue that these things should be real, but just asking why the flight-model needs to be an exception and be real beyond simply "good enough", if almost everything else isn't.
Wouldn't a player looking for "real" look elsewhere for various other aspects of the simulation, even if the flight-model might be somewhat inferior? Are limitations of a good-enough flight model noticeable to a new player, or even any player without actual expertise in the flight regime where the simulation deviates from reality?
What do you think is wrong with trim tabs?
Trim tabs deflect from the control surface to create a force on the control surface. They do so by being moved in the opposite direction of the intended deflection (e.g., to trim the elevator up the trim tab needs to go down). This decreases the effective size of the control surface. As a result, at full deflection of the control surface it is more effective when trimmed against that deflection. In AH the biggest effect is achieved by full deflection and trimmed to support the direction of the deflection. Its not noticeable in most situations because stick position is force, not actual control surface position (*) and deflection is limited by the pilots strength, but in situations where the deflection is not limited by the strength of the pilot (slow speed, low force needed for full deflection) and where authority is limited (easiest tried in inverted flight) the behavior can be observed.
Does it matter for a game? Not really. Where's the transition from "bad" flight-model to "good enough" flight-model? How does the "best" flight-model help to persuade a player to play this instead of something else?
(*) add to the list of non-real things above, but that cannot be solved in software, it needs a different kind of joystick.
-
Curious if anyone has clicked on the hyperlink in AKKuyas original post for this thread. He is attempting to experiment to find some ideas for some varied scenarios. 6 pages of comments and none about his intentions.
-
Flight models of other games are good enough for that, too. All of them are better than pre-computer synthetic flight training devices, which were certified to be good enough to be used to learn flying. As for game-play, there is a level of "good enough". It's nice that the planes match available data, but that only helps to limit bbs crying, it doesn't help to make the game more entertaining.
Given the low number of hours at least some war-time pilots had I doubt anything became second nature. And it's not only the engine. Automatic fuel system, arbitrary head movements, no gun-jams, can't blow tires on landing, ... Plus the way we're abusing the planes by continuously firewalling throttles, killing ignition mid-flight, spinning with flaps-down, loading them beyond MOTM ... I'm not trying to argue that these things should be real, but just asking why the flight-model needs to be an exception and be real beyond simply "good enough", if almost everything else isn't.
Wouldn't a player looking for "real" look elsewhere for various other aspects of the simulation, even if the flight-model might be somewhat inferior? Are limitations of a good-enough flight model noticeable to a new player, or even any player without actual expertise in the flight regime where the simulation deviates from reality?
Trim tabs deflect from the control surface to create a force on the control surface. They do so by being moved in the opposite direction of the intended deflection (e.g., to trim the elevator up the trim tab needs to go down). This decreases the effective size of the control surface. As a result, at full deflection of the control surface it is more effective when trimmed against that deflection. In AH the biggest effect is achieved by full deflection and trimmed to support the direction of the deflection. Its not noticeable in most situations because stick position is force, not actual control surface position (*) and deflection is limited by the pilots strength, but in situations where the deflection is not limited by the strength of the pilot (slow speed, low force needed for full deflection) and where authority is limited (easiest tried in inverted flight) the behavior can be observed.
Does it matter for a game? Not really. Where's the transition from "bad" flight-model to "good enough" flight-model? How does the "best" flight-model help to persuade a player to play this instead of something else?
(*) add to the list of non-real things above, but that cannot be solved in software, it needs a different kind of joystick.
You need an education in trim tabs (along with servo tabs and anti-servo tabs).
:old:
Airplanes were often over-grossed during the war, too.
:old:
-
Where's the transition from "bad" flight-model to "good enough" flight-model? How does the "best" flight-model help to persuade a player to play this instead of something else?
Unless it's a procedure sim trying to compete with DCS, I really don't think it matters much to the vast majority of gamers.
Curious if anyone has clicked on the hyperlink in AKKuyas original post for this thread. He is attempting to experiment to find some ideas for some varied scenarios. 6 pages of comments and none about his intentions.
I'll play. 1) Design by committee won't end well.
2) Scenario players are a subset of the playerbase. Right or wrong, most people view scenarios/FSO as not really part of the "game" which they consider the MA.
I suppose the option to make the game pretty much completely scenario based is a change, not sure how that would make the game more attractive than an always up arena.
Wiley.
-
You need an education in trim tabs (along with servo tabs and anti-servo tabs).
I'm pretty sure most planes in AH use normal or servo tabs. I doubt many ww2 planes had moving stabilizers, so they probably do not matter for this discussion (though I have to admit that I did no specific research on which plane in AH uses what).
You might want to think before rejecting the idea. Or even better, please try it (on a plane with normal or servo trim). Full deflection, then change trim, observe the effect. Or simply freeze the elevator manually before changing trim (crazy variant: attach gust lock), but it would be impossible to get a data point in AH to compare to.
When the control surface is frozen (at max deflection or stuck), the trim tab doesn't move the control surface (because it doesn't move), but acts as a control surface itself. A small one, in the reversed direction (compared to its effect when moving the control surface). In AH, it seems to be able to move the control surface beyond the full deflection, at least that's how the effect feels.
-
AH properly models the effect of the trim tab. There is no need to model the trim tab and the control surface separately.
-
I had started a topic thread 7-8 years ago about the Aces High players buying the game from Dale.
why on Earth would that be a good thing? You realize Dale IS the game, right? Without Dale writing code there is no Aces High. You couldn't hire enough people to figure out how to make changes and still have a working product, or keep it a working product in light of the hardware and tech changes that take place in an industry like this.
This gets a negative score that exceeds any lotto winnings. :salute
-
why on Earth would that be a good thing? You realize Dale IS the game, right? Without Dale writing code there is no Aces High. You couldn't hire enough people to figure out how to make changes and still have a working product, or keep it a working product in light of the hardware and tech changes that take place in an industry like this.
This gets a negative score that exceeds any lotto winnings. :salute
Yeah, I mean think of the knowledge required to keep up with a customized engine. Yikes.
-
HiTech, the way to fix the game is to get rid of everybody who "knows how to fix the game". Whiners are the bane of the earth.
-
HiTech, the way to fix the game is to get rid of everybody who "knows how to fix the game". Whiners are the bane of the earth.
I propose that the exact opposite might be true. The only problem with the game is the players. OK "Whining" is pejorative, but discussing some of the game play "issues" that bothers people help people to realize that an adjustment in their Behavior or attitude about others is all the adjustment that's needed.
Whining is feedback. Most players unfortunately reject it outright, instead of listening to their fellow players. But they want HiTech to "Fix" something. It reminds me of the people Marching on Washington to fix global warming. Instead March to you basement, find the big gray panel, open it, find the switch that says "MAIN" move it to the left. Warming stopped.
In the end my advice is talk to your fellow players and try to work it out. Maybe keep it generic instead of "Hey you no talent hack noob, hording, gangtard...etc.." I find that makes it worse.
:salute
-
HiTech, the way to fix the game is to get rid of everybody who "knows how to fix the game". Whiners are the bane of the earth.
The only reason why we hear these whiners is because of the lack of numbers.
Normally complains and suggestions are hid amongst the myriad of posts and comments but since those are lessened we get to see the surface underneath: It seems like the more hardcore players whine the most. These are the people that are keeping the game alive and HTC afloat so I wouldn't go so quickly to insult them.
-
The only reason why we hear these whiners is because of the lack of numbers.
You must be new. :D
-
The only reason why we hear these whiners is because of the lack of numbers.
Normally complains and suggestions are hid amongst the myriad of posts and comments but since those are lessened we get to see the surface underneath: It seems like the more hardcore players whine the most. These are the people that are keeping the game alive and HTC afloat so I wouldn't go so quickly to insult them.
Bingo.
-
I propose that the exact opposite might be true. The only problem with the game is the players. OK "Whining" is pejorative, but discussing some of the game play "issues" that bothers people help people to realize that an adjustment in their Behavior or attitude about others is all the adjustment that's needed.
You can never change people.
Code is the only lever you have.
-
You can never change people.
Code is the only lever you have.
Code = Power
-
Another concession to low numbers and the time to fight making AH3 seem very slow to younger players\potential new customers. Change the up time for maps to 4 or 6 ours so wining a map for them is a tangible accomplishment to work for. Many of our numbers\timers are scaled from the past and 400 players swarming a map. So 400 players would want the map around long enough to keep initiatives going or the illusion of that.
Today 100-120, 7 days on the same map is killing younger people with boredom. Yes they have the choice to gear up and flip the map, but, how many do we really have with us. And they will be the ones telling other young people how fast or boring our game is. The MA is the size it is becasue it is the essence of AH the game making it not the competitors game. Time is now the game's problem. All the customers are in the MA and not in WO:P or the other arenas. Time to accomplish anything is still scaled from 2007. I tested that on FjordMA with the unique way I setup GV spawns at all bases. At least the GVers were having fun becasue I scaled time to target to drop them in each others laps.
-
You can never change people.
Code is the only lever you have.
In my experience in life, and the 20 years I'll been playing Dale's games, I do not find that to be true. People's skill level changes and so their play changes. Also, people's expectations of success in the game change and hence their 'whining' and behaviors evolve. Have more faith in people. When get upset in this game it's usually at my self. On the rare occasion it's at someone else it's because the internet has stopped me from realizing it's a real person. When I remember that, I calm right down and enjoy myself.
-
We're all on the same side here. :aok
-
I tested that on FjordMA with the unique way I setup GV spawns at all bases. At least the GVers were having fun becasue I scaled time to target to drop them in each others laps.
Really like that map and actually got me in a GV, much better being able to spawn out their rather than driving 15 minutes to just die. Hope that’s the standard with maps going forward.
Also think putting a timer on the maps is a good idea. I absolutely hate short match play style’s, but maps that don’t flip for a week gets old. Maybe have a day with fast rotations and most captures takes the map, Blitz mode.
-
In my experience in life, and the 20 years I'll been playing Dale's games, I do not find that to be true. People's skill level changes and so their play changes. Also, people's expectations of success in the game change and hence their 'whining' and behaviors evolve. Have more faith in people. When get upset in this game it's usually at my self. On the rare occasion it's at someone else it's because the internet has stopped me from realizing it's a real person. When I remember that, I calm right down and enjoy myself.
I didn't say you can't change yourself. I'm just saying you can't change anyone else.
You can't just say, "hey guys lets just play the game differently", but you can alter code to incentivize or de-incentivize or disallow certain behaviors.
-
You can't just say, "hey guys lets just play the game differently", but you can alter code to incentivize or de-incentivize or disallow certain behaviors.
Pretty much this. All games do it. If a meta develops that isn't intended to be meta, things get changed to make it no longer meta.
-
This game certainly will not attract anyone with realism. People will or better should accept the inaccuracies and generalizations, in exchange for gameplay. The FM could use some tweaking by making the planes feel a bit more free, and maybe tweak the ballistics to be a bit worse for some weapons. I used to play IL-2 for a few years, and yes I wanted the game to feel as much the same as possible. I managed to do that, but then again I had experience from about 2000 - 2005. Without that experience I would have given up, it's just too complicated for a newbie. Everybody uses TIR now, but by default your head bounces around to the default snap views when turning your head. By a pure accident I pressed cntrl F2 to enter The mode where I could edit my head positions. The head position should be dead center by default, a new player can edit them later. Also there should be absolutely no control deadzone by default and a little bit of damping. Also the combat trim should maybe be off by default at least for people with a head tracker, they will know how to trim and can decide to use it later. It's amazing how almost everything can be customized, just the default settings could use some tinkering. I did a free 2 weeks almost 2 years ago, and I feel the MA numbers are up. I subscribed because I saw 85 people in the MA and I've seen over 100, I think it's pretty amazing.
-
Pretty much this. All games do it. If a meta develops that isn't intended to be meta, things get changed to make it no longer meta.
Exactly. If behavior wasn't affected by code there wouldn't be ENY, side switch timers, kill shooter, etc..
-
Another concession to low numbers and the time to fight making AH3 seem very slow to younger players\potential new customers. Change the up time for maps to 4 or 6 ours so wining a map for them is a tangible accomplishment to work for. Many of our numbers\timers are scaled from the past and 400 players swarming a map. So 400 players would want the map around long enough to keep initiatives going or the illusion of that.
Today 100-120, 7 days on the same map is killing younger people with boredom. Yes they have the choice to gear up and flip the map, but, how many do we really have with us. And they will be the ones telling other young people how fast or boring our game is. The MA is the size it is becasue it is the essence of AH the game making it not the competitors game. Time is now the game's problem. All the customers are in the MA and not in WO:P or the other arenas. Time to accomplish anything is still scaled from 2007. I tested that on FjordMA with the unique way I setup GV spawns at all bases. At least the GVers were having fun becasue I scaled time to target to drop them in each others laps.
I think 2-3 days on one map is plenty. If it ain't won by then, it will drag on all week. Smaller maps get won faster, but with more smaller maps being implemented, it won't matter so much that maps get rolled more quickly.
The side switch time in the off hours 12am PST should be reduced to 3 hours at least. This may help the flow of the fights better. I think smaller maps that put people into the action would avoid too many people needing to switch.
The best maps gain the highest #s. When a good map is on during the weekends, you can really see the #s reflect it as more people stay on closer to 12am est. time.
-
Pretty much this. All games do it. If a meta develops that isn't intended to be meta, things get changed to make it no longer meta.
I think you just became a Demigod by using the word Meta three times in a single sentence. :D
-
I subscribed because I saw 85 people in the MA and I've seen over 100, I think it's pretty amazing.
As an experiment, measure again come May.
-
AH properly models the effect of the trim tab. There is no need to model the trim tab and the control surface separately.
Just did some more experiments. It's the pushed elevator only that's really weird. Easy to see since the stick was visually added, even when sitting on the runway. Fully pulled changes of trim do nothing to the stick position, centered the stick moves with changes if trim (weird at 0 ias, but ok), fully pushed trim moves the stick the same as when centered. Aileron and rudder do not show this asymmetry.
-
Which aircraft? You don't have to look at the stick you can look at the elevator but even then keep in mind that the graphics don't have to match the flight model so the best test is performance.
Kudos for posting data. :aok
Another issue for flight testing. AH models control surface forces that limit the effect of full deflection of the stick. But using trim will add force to the desired control surface movement without adding to the actual limit of stick movement.
-
P38 and pony. Guess it's all of them. There are no significant forces at 0 ias that trim needs to help the pilot. Just go otr, push stick, modify trim, watch stick/surfaces move.
-
P38 and pony. Guess it's all of them. There are no significant forces at 0 ias that trim needs to help the pilot. Just go otr, push stick, modify trim, watch stick/surfaces move.
AH3 doesn't use a detailed model of a real aircraft trim system, instead it's modeled to fly like a real aircraft with a trim system. What you're looking for is what DCS does, but DCS prop planes don't fly like AH3, although it's gotten a lot better. AH3 is an accurate dynamic flight model, it's not a detailed systems model and that's a deliberate design decision.
-
See rule #4
-
Many good ideas have come from the community over the years. Some people get carried away, everybody's baby is the most beautiful baby ever, but it's good to have productive conversations.
-
Many good ideas have come from the community over the years. Some people get carried away, everybody's baby is the most beautiful baby ever, but it's good to have productive conversations.
I agree , but as of late the boards are filled up with threads like this and nothing really related to the good times playing the game. The community has keep this game going, they make the maps, skins, custom terrains for the special events and used to make sound packs up until the Fmod stuff took over.
Here is a question since I have not been around as long as most of you, is there a map, sound pack or skins ever been in game that the developers have made, besides the ones that are stock/default to the game download?
Dont get me wrong I liked the game very much over the years I have played, had a blast with the friends I have made in it.
-
There are maps that are not in rotation but extra skins and sound packs are player mods.
People are free to express themselves here, within a few posted rules, it's a good thing. Hitech is very lenient. People get to dig holes, if they're so inclined, for a while.
-
See rule #4
-
I agree , but as of late the boards are filled up with threads like this and nothing really related to the good times playing the game. The community has keep this game going, they make the maps, skins, custom terrains for the special events and used to make sound packs up until the Fmod stuff took over.
Maps made with a terrain editor he made and opened up to the community.
Skins made because he created a system for them to be shared and loaded into the game.
The WW1WF arena I made was only possible because of the additional mission tweaks he made so we could try that.
He accepted feedback and ideas on improving the new Offline Mission workflow that I think has really made it a new resource that players can enjoy.
He is not Electronic Arts. I can argue all day (and will ;)) on additional changes I'd like to see, but frankly the fact that he has even kept this ball rolling at all for 20 years is mildly amazing.
-
If it was EA, they would of killed the game by selling $100 packs and chasing everyone away
-
If it was EA, they would of killed the game by selling $100 packs and chasing everyone away
Aces High Loot Boxes?
(https://massivelyop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Meme-face-thinking_538604_1.jpg)
Good thinking! :D
-
See rule #4
-
See rule #4
-
Uh oh. :confused:
-
AH3 doesn't use a detailed model of a real aircraft trim system, instead it's modeled to fly like a real aircraft with a trim system. What you're looking for is what DCS does, but DCS prop planes don't fly like AH3, although it's gotten a lot better. AH3 is an accurate dynamic flight model, it's not a detailed systems model and that's a deliberate design decision.
Back to the original point. Is it really the the best flight model in AH that is the selling point for a player to chose this one over something else? Would a new player looking for a game with planes really choose AH due to the flight model? When others have more instantaneous action or more detailed systems simulation?
AH (with subscription) seems to be the one best (practically only since WB arenas are empty) choice for 24h persistent arena game play (scenarios not being a selling point for new players). For other forms of entertainment there seem to be alternatives.
(Since seeing that it is only the negative elevator limit that is weird it might simply be a bug? Or a kind of short-cut to limit negative aoa by limiting the pilots ability to push?)
-
You're begging the question. AH3 has many selling points. The dynamic flight model is the best available regardless of whether that is a factor for you personally. The game likely appeals to different people for different reasons. If you are a stick and rudder guy you'll be happy, if you want to manage complex systems and only require an adequate flight model then you may find yourself posting on the wishlist.
As for the trim you missed my point. The trim settings have the correct effect on flight. You don't need to model the trim control moving the trim tab causing the control surface to respond differently to airflow when it's more efficient to simply code the effect of setting trim.
-
Back to the original point. Is it really the the best flight model in AH that is the selling point for a player to chose this one over something else? Would a new player looking for a game with planes really choose AH due to the flight model? When others have more instantaneous action or more detailed systems simulation?
AH (with subscription) seems to be the one best (practically only since WB arenas are empty) choice for 24h persistent arena game play (scenarios not being a selling point for new players). For other forms of entertainment there seem to be alternatives.
(Since seeing that it is only the negative elevator limit that is weird it might simply be a bug? Or a kind of short-cut to limit negative aoa by limiting the pilots ability to push?)
No. It's pretty good, but best? That's at least debatable, although I can't think of one I like better off the top of my head either. I have problems with just about any game's/sim's flight model out there though, including the most expensive full motion simulators money can buy. Code does its best to replicate flight characteristics but there are so many variables that perfection is elusive.
I HAVE recommended students fly AH because it has a decent "feel" to it away from the edges of the envelope.
I'm not here for the FM. That can be adapted to. It's the persistent open-world environment that I like where everyone is essentially equally able to achieve success. No participation trophies.
-
You can't just say, "hey guys lets just play the game differently",
Yes you can. This game has always been a platform for Games within the game. Play it as you see fit. Make friends, get them to join you. Play your way. No Rules change make the J0KeERS roll the map. No rules change should stop it. No rule change makes me seek the players who like 1v1 dog fights, I find them, we chat, we set it up. When the BnZ gang people show up...I move to a different place on the map. the map is big the game is big. There is no single way the game is played. you have to put a little work into communication and you will have the change you seek.
but you can alter code to incentivize or de-incentivize or disallow certain behaviors.
yes, but it's not necessary, or the optimum way to do it. One size never fits all. :salute
-
Do people still believe in Santa? :headscratch:
No, not Hitech Santa, Santa Claus.
-
Maybe people are aware of negativity bias and confirmation bias and don't worry so much. :aok
-
:rolleyes:
-
As for the trim you missed my point. The trim settings have the correct effect on flight. You don't need to model the trim control moving the trim tab causing the control surface to respond differently to airflow when it's more efficient to simply code the effect of setting trim.
I can agree with that, as long as the control surface is not at its limit. And I can agree with "good enough" if trim has zero effect at maximum deflection, too. I was mis-interpreting the reaction of the plane to changes in trim during slow inverted flight as trim still acting "normally", not as not being at the physical limit (but only at a pilot-too-weak/arms-too-short limit). Can you agree that I should be able to push the elevator to its negative limit?
No. It's pretty good, but best? That's at least debatable, although I can't think of one I like better off the top of my head either. I have problems with just about any game's/sim's flight model out there though, including the most expensive full motion simulators money can buy. Code does its best to replicate flight characteristics but there are so many variables that perfection is elusive.
FLS' claim, not mine (https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,398856.msg5286664.html#msg5286664 (https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,398856.msg5286664.html#msg5286664)). I'm unsure about best (throwing in some random easy to verify weird behavior as example), and cannot imagine that it is the major relevant selling point.
I'm not here for the FM. That can be adapted to. It's the persistent open-world environment that I like where everyone is essentially equally able to achieve success. No participation trophies.
Now if only all of us could agree on a definition of "success" :D
-
Yes you can. This game has always been a platform for Games within the game. Play it as you see fit. Make friends, get them to join you. Play your way. No Rules change make the J0KeERS roll the map.
I've recently witnessed a J0KER upping from a vulched field in what looked like attempts (pretty successful even) to prevent loss of the base. But indeed, no coad change was involved in that.
yes, but it's not necessary, or the optimum way to do it. One size never fits all. :salute
The current "size" favors people playing the team objective who like to drive supply trucks. I'm not sure this is a good thing.
-
Curious which aircraft you would pick for the freebie?
My picks, 109 F-4, Spit V, A6M3, P-40N, MC 202 and Yak 9T or 7B
-
I just had my younger brother over to try my motion cockpit in DCS and without motion in AH3. He's been a pilot for 30+ years and used to own a Piper Warrior. He thought DCS was great but he found, as I do, that AH3 just feels better and flies like an aircraft. It's the difference between a dynamic flight model and whatever everybody else is using.
-
Do people still believe in Santa? :headscratch:
No, not Hitech Santa, Santa Claus.
...why...I do. He's who brought me my VR for Christmas, just as I asked in my letter.
If you have doubts, you must have been naughty in a really fundamental way.
And that's all I have to say about that.
- oldman
-
<S> Oldman
-
...why...I do. He's who brought me my VR for Christmas, just as I asked in my letter.
If you have doubts, you must have been naughty in a really fundamental way.
And that's all I have to say about that.
- oldman
Being naughty is like Christmas ALLLLL year long. :banana:
-
Is it really the the best flight model in AH that is the selling point for a player to chose this one over something else?
It is for me.
Would a new player looking for a game with planes really choose AH due to the flight model? When others have more instantaneous action or more detailed systems simulation?
It depends. Is the player looking for an arcade game or a flight simulator? If the player is looking for an arcade game, with instantaneous action, the player has lots of choices. If the player is looking for game built on a real flight simulator, he chooses Aces High.
It's about flying the airplanes. I like to tell people that Aces High is like playing tag or capture the flag, but with airplanes. Real airplanes. Aces High is not just a game, it's a celebration of aviation.