General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: save on October 16, 2026, 02:59:07 PM
Title: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: save on October 16, 2026, 02:59:07 PM
IRL a wwII Radar gave you contact(s) with heading + range to enemy, and estimate altitude +- couple k feet within a distance of sectors- can an AI commanded voice or text give you that instead of a real time map AWACS icons ?
This give you a realistic reference to what you are up to and not it mix up with the actual dogfight, not even cold war planes, or even later planes should have that capability.
Of course no plane or vehicle should have its own radar, you need to give that info yourself to country/team.
Other sims have this and it works as intended - give you a picture of the situation, but not the actual dogfight situation.
Thoughts ?
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: CAV on October 16, 2026, 03:53:00 PM
as long as it stops working when dar is down........
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: caldera on October 16, 2026, 04:20:07 PM
The old dot dar setup was perfectly adequate, but if any change should be made; eliminate GVs giving countrywide AWACs data when hidden practically invisible under a tree.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 16, 2026, 04:34:42 PM
Are we really going to do this in a whole other thread?
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: captain1ma on October 16, 2026, 06:00:37 PM
how are you supposed to find a fight if you cant see the planes?
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: CAV on October 16, 2026, 07:05:07 PM
the way we did not years and the way they did in WW2
Mk 1 eyeball...
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: captain1ma on October 16, 2026, 08:31:05 PM
yeah that will keep me out of the mains for sure!
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Oldman731 on October 16, 2026, 08:54:04 PM
The fight is just one of many tasks you need to be Proficient at...
Planning, teamwork, communication as well as fighting... if we are playing a combat simulation.
My Hope Is HT moves the game back in the direction of the combat simulation.
But this is going require player to abandon the furballer/shooter mindsets and treat combat as a realistic, team-driven simulation.
And many may not like it, In a game that requires teamwork and coordination to secure objectives. A high kill count isn't all that impressive.
Another reason to bring back Furball Lake Dueling Arena. Let the air, land & sea battle rage on in Melee to everyone's heart content while the diehard air vs air warriors have a a place to strut their stuff.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hazmatt on October 17, 2026, 11:06:12 AM
I bet you're gonna get some panties in a twist over that comment.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Randy1 on October 17, 2026, 01:49:56 PM
.AH has three basic parts of the game. Engagement with the enemy, disrupt the country's ability to survive, capture bases. If your country does all of this well, you win the map.
Each of us place these three parts to a different priority level in our game play. Any changes to the game has to support all three basic parts to avoid losing players. AH has survived these many years so something has to bee right.
Save, your idea is interesting for sure. It is on the same path as destroying your own assets like town buildings if you bomb GVs.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 17, 2026, 02:59:01 PM
AWACS caused an exodus because it ruined air combat for many players. They weren’t asked. All of a sudden the most gamey thing that HT ever introduced just showed up. No test. No revisit. No feedback. Just a big middle finger to our intelligence. Since then it’s been a boon for the most lame parts of the air game and trashed the balance of the MA. Now players that have been here for eons are coming here and saying they can’t find a fight without it?!? Forgive me if I just think you’re lazy and maybe you should just go to war thunder or fire up Atari’s river raid.
At the very GD minimum…
A 30 TON TANK SHOULD NOT PAINT MY PLANE ON RADAR WHEN I CAN’T EVEN SEE THEM FROM 50ft AGL!!!
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: JimmyD3 on October 17, 2026, 05:01:34 PM
AWACS caused an exodus because it ruined air combat for many players. They weren’t asked. All of a sudden the most gamey thing that HT ever introduced just showed up. No test. No revisit. No feedback. Just a big middle finger to our intelligence. Since then it’s been a boon for the most lame parts of the air game and trashed the balance of the MA. Now players that have been here for eons are coming here and saying they can’t find a fight without it?!? Forgive me if I just think you’re lazy and maybe you should just go to war thunder or fire up Atari’s river raid.
At the very GD minimum…
A 30 TON TANK SHOULD NOT PAINT MY PLANE ON RADAR WHEN I CAN’T EVEN SEE THEM FROM 50ft AGL!!!
50 fT. AGL? Really? How about 1800 ft. AGL?
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Oldman731 on October 17, 2026, 06:54:58 PM
Now players that have been here for eons are coming here and saying they can’t find a fight without it?!? Forgive me if I just think you’re lazy and maybe you should just go to war thunder or fire up Atari’s river raid.
* Looks at hook *
* Swims away *
- oldman
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hazmatt on October 17, 2026, 08:19:04 PM
Uh, war thunder sim battles has on icons on enemy and only icons on friendly at like 300 range... Heck even real battles doesn't always have icons depending on your crew training, approach direction and if they're hugging the deck.
Only arcade has icons like AH3.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hitech on October 18, 2026, 08:29:40 AM
IRL a wwII Radar gave you contact(s) with heading + range to enemy, and estimate altitude +- couple k feet within a distance of sectors- can an AI commanded voice or text give you that instead of a real time map AWACS icons ?
This give you a realistic reference to what you are up to and not it mix up with the actual dogfight, not even cold war planes, or even later planes should have that capability.
Of course no plane or vehicle should have its own radar, you need to give that info yourself to country/team.
Other sims have this and it works as intended - give you a picture of the situation, but not the actual dogfight situation.
Thoughts ?
You seem to not be thinking about the team of people who tracked planes from other forms of communication and the relayed it to those who needed it. The display on the map is not meant to simulate radar, but rather a collections of sightings.
You may or may not like it , but don't try use a simplistic "radar" didn't do this, when that is not what the system is supposed to be doing.
HiTech
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 18, 2026, 08:58:26 AM
The process of placing objects on a map in a WWII radio or operations room is known as military plotting. During World War II, a constant stream of information came via teleprinters, radio intercepts (such as HF/DF or "Huff-Duff"), and phone lines into an operations center. Plotters (often members of women's auxiliary branches like the WAAF or WRNS) used specialized equipment to track real-time troop, ship, and aircraft movements across a massive, gridded plotting table.
It’s shown in the last minutes of my MotA video and many places on YT.
Basically you’re radar is a plotter map style system.
The difference is you wouldn’t have that in your plane, you could have a paper map with markings and updates would be relayed over radio.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: captain1ma on October 18, 2026, 10:29:25 AM
AWACS caused an exodus because it ruined air combat for many players. They weren’t asked. All of a sudden the most gamey thing that HT ever introduced just showed up. No test. No revisit. No feedback. Just a big middle finger to our intelligence. Since then it’s been a boon for the most lame parts of the air game and trashed the balance of the MA. Now players that have been here for eons are coming here and saying they can’t find a fight without it?!? Forgive me if I just think you’re lazy and maybe you should just go to war thunder or fire up Atari’s river raid.
At the very GD minimum…
A 30 TON TANK SHOULD NOT PAINT MY PLANE ON RADAR WHEN I CAN’T EVEN SEE THEM FROM 50ft AGL!!!
so a bunch of people left because they could see dots on a map? wow!
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 18, 2026, 11:12:32 AM
so a bunch of people left because they could see dots on a map? wow!
I don’t think as many left because of dar in the big picture of low numbers. 1 million played AH, most came and left, many when 2 week trial ended. We may know of several to many, but it’s not the dragon breath of departures
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hazmatt on October 18, 2026, 11:35:06 AM
You seem to not be thinking about the team of people who tracked planes from other forms of communication and the relayed it to those who needed it. The display on the map is not meant to simulate radar, but rather a collections of sightings.
You may or may not like it , but don't try use a simplistic "radar" didn't do this, when that is not what the system is supposed to be doing.
HiTech
True, aircraft tracking and communication relays existed. It was able to tell groups of aircraft the approximate location, altitude and direction of travel of another group of aircraft. However it was still a blunt instrument and was designed to guide fighters to contact with the enemy.
In the iteration we currently have in AH it is possible to manage your individual fights because the radar is so accurate. I can tell when an enemy plane changes direction in real time so while I fight one aircraft I can manage 2, 3 or 4 others just by referring to the map. If I ever lose sight of the enemy in a fight I can just refer to the map and it will tell me not only where they are but also where their nose it pointing. Classic 'bounces' or 'lose sight lose the fight' simply no longer exists.
Diving into the clouds was a legitimate form of evasion. Not in here, just track using the map or via the plane highlight function available with the tab button.
Using terrain to mask your movements is not possible. If I lose sight of a target I am chasing because they manage to go around a hill and break my visual contact I can just monitor the map to see if they reverse on me or make any other changes until I can clear the crest and regain visual contact.
This is the level of detail that the radar gives at the moment. I think it detracts from the game rather than adds to it
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hitech on October 18, 2026, 01:57:01 PM
True, aircraft tracking and communication relays existed. It was able to tell groups of aircraft the approximate location, altitude and direction of travel of another group of aircraft. However it was still a blunt instrument and was designed to guide fighters to contact with the enemy.
In the iteration we currently have in AH it is possible to manage your individual fights because the radar is so accurate. I can tell when an enemy plane changes direction in real time so while I fight one aircraft I can manage 2, 3 or 4 others just by referring to the map. If I ever lose sight of the enemy in a fight I can just refer to the map and it will tell me not only where they are but also where their nose it pointing. Classic 'bounces' or 'lose sight lose the fight' simply no longer exists.
Diving into the clouds was a legitimate form of evasion. Not in here, just track using the map or via the plane highlight function available with the tab button.
Using terrain to mask your movements is not possible. If I lose sight of a target I am chasing because they manage to go around a hill and break my visual contact I can just monitor the map to see if they reverse on me or make any other changes until I can clear the crest and regain visual contact.
This is the level of detail that the radar gives at the moment. I think it detracts from the game rather than adds to it
We have an update interval for just that reason, would you like it to be longer?
HiTech
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hazmatt on October 18, 2026, 02:11:06 PM
I can tell when an enemy plane changes direction in real time so while I fight one aircraft I can manage 2, 3 or 4 others just by referring to the map.
I agree. I never used to fly with the map open but once awacs came a long I would fly with the map constantly open. It seemed a bit "gamey" but you had to do it to be competitive against others who were doing it.
Maybe the update delay HT is talking about would help?
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Rubicon on October 18, 2026, 02:38:59 PM
We have an update interval for just that reason, would you like it to be longer?
HiTech
Thanks for the response. Yes, I think it should be longer. How much longer might be a question for the community rather than my individual opinion, but since my opinion was asked for:
I would set the refresh rate at 60 seconds.
This conveys the general information without making it usable as an in combat monitoring system.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Spikes on October 18, 2026, 02:46:24 PM
It would be interesting if tower radar update rate stayed the same but plane radar update rate was much longer to reflect the idea that it is communicated and not proper radar.
I've always thought with the plane radar, if you couldn't actually see the icon on your screen, it doesn't work (eg if you're looking the other way or the plane is under you). But I'm sure that would be incredibly difficult to make happen.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 18, 2026, 02:56:34 PM
Several plane models in WWII had onboard radar, just not all of them. Pretty sure axis didn’t.
Personally, I don’t care, event radar is ok, I’m good with dot dar, icon doesn’t bother me, MA is a game, events is the sim. IMO,
Icon helps new players find action.
I also see LilMak points.
IMO it all depends on how one squints their eyes.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: CAV on October 18, 2026, 05:03:13 PM
Quote
We have an update interval for just that reason, would you like it to be longer?
I think what many of us want is the AWACS part to be gone....
As in every plane & GV in the game being its own radar station.
If the radar Tower is up you have radar if it's down, you don't.
And I also think we need to talk about the GVs with their Klingon cloaking devices
But one step at a time... AWACS frist plz
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hitech on October 18, 2026, 05:04:38 PM
I think what many of us want is the AWACS part to be gone....
As in every plane & GV in the game being its own radar station.
If the radar Tower is up you have radar if it's down, you don't.
And I also think we need to talk about the GVs with their Klingon cloaking devices
But one step at a time... AWACS frist plz
The other night we were trying to find slaxer for a good long time. Tons of tanks had tried. I was flying around in the air.
It happened to be part of a video I was recording for something else so when I went back to watch to see where he really was, it was the best hiding spot I’ve ever seen in my life. Definitely nothing nefarious, but in the trees in the shadows very well hidden at the top of a hill. I even flew over him several times at treetop and couldn’t see him it was humbling to see that in the video lol.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 18, 2026, 06:19:05 PM
There are no awacs there are planes reporting in on their sightings at vis distance.
HiTech
Perhaps you should Google AWACS and learn what it means? Because you just defined AWACS in the second part of your sentence.
…And it isn’t just planes doing it.
We don’t need it and you should consider reverting to pre AWIII standards.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: CAV on October 18, 2026, 06:58:33 PM
Quote
There are no awacs there are planes reporting in on their sightings at vis distance.
That was done by radio (VOX) in WW2, if they was in range of someone. what we have isn't anything like that. But the players back in the sim. Combat is hard work, remove the EZ buttons.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 18, 2026, 07:13:41 PM
What he's describing is similar to a Plotting Table? Your map is pretty much just that.
The difference is, instead of AH players getting a radio message (which AI could do) you get a visual. Planes radio in and people visually monitoring on ground telephone it in. The Plotting Table changes second to second and change would be radioed to pilots. The visual in flight is what's not RL, but a mental imaging from radio messages.
You want the ability to sneak up on someone. Yes? Isn't what this is all about?
- oldman
noooooo.... him and others want to remove what they feel is too much info currently being provided; heading and type is quite a bit of info to work with.
Going back to dot dar for both types puts some unknowns back into the mix.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hitech on October 18, 2026, 08:23:16 PM
YOu wan't me to work with you , start working with me, if you simply keep asking for me to turn it back to the way it was, it is NOT going to happen.
HiTech
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Shane on October 18, 2026, 08:46:27 PM
YOu wan't me to work with you , start working with me, if you simply keep asking for me to turn it back to the way it was, it is NOT going to happen.
HiTech
I wasn't around to see any debate or decision as to plane type and bearing being added back when. I can understand, somewhat the decision to provide that info, but am unsure how using dot dar would be detrimental to engagements?
It would help to understand why you seem opposed to dot dar (?) as it still provides enough information to initiate engagement. Local planes and GVs would still show up as dots, just absent type and bearing?
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 18, 2026, 09:49:31 PM
You want the ability to sneak up on someone. Yes? Isn't what this is all about?
- oldman
This is one of the silliest repeated arguments that we have. The only reason for not wanting to know what the actual dot is would be so you’re just as unprepared as the person you’re coming upon.
That was never how things worked in real life or a simulation. If you wanna go back to real life, just because a B-17 bomber group didn’t know what plane you were in exactly; they still had a F-Ton of intelligence and a good list to pick from. They also had a pretty good idea where exactly you’re coming from more or less.
If there were still a few hundred people playing this game every night and I launch a set of buffs into the void then I would expect what’s coming to me. And if it didn’t work out, there was another fight right around the corner somewhere always and more than one Arena.
When it’s under 100 and I’m gonna go spend the next whatever amount of time getting to altitude, no matter what plane type I’m on, then I want a fair idea of what I’m heading to or what’s coming at me. Especially since 10% to 20% of those players could be gone by the time I get there. The MA, even when it hits its peaks, still is under 100 (usually 85 or less) people before 7PM EST and after 10PM almost always. Yes, there’s an occasional outlier, but it’s exactly that.
I don’t know what the average login time is because I’m dead certain some of you never log out, or sleep or work, or eat food, or do anything else other than this. Looking at you Shane! :rofl :cheers: but I’m willing to lay unfavorable odds that’s it’s gotta be somewhere under three hours and personally I feel like it’s closer to my one and a half to two a night. Long story short everyone just needs to chill out and have some fun.
It was pretty spotty tonight on the Rook side except for maybe an hour of action on the Bish front and same on the Knight side. I just went around and pestered things and had a lot of fun.
If you can’t find fun in the MA with the handful of people we have left, maybe you should be more concerned about keeping those people playing than worrying about whether someone can identify your little dot on the map.
Otherwise, go touch some grass and come back later.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 18, 2026, 09:52:33 PM
YOu wan't me to work with you , start working with me, if you simply keep asking for me to turn it back to the way it was, it is NOT going to happen.
HiTech
I have never asked for that. Not once. I’ve asked that you leave the presentation as it is (not revert to dot dar). But I have asked that you stop making every player a radar tower. What I want is the following…
I want you to turn every plane and ESPECIALLY tank as a radar tower off. It’s ruined the MA as a balanced sandbox. This one setting has nuked so many cool aspects of the game that are hard to quantify.
Here’s what I’ve asked for multiple times…
Turn off AWACS (every tank and plane is a radar tower) but leave the radar presented as it is within the radar rings (icons are fine). I’ve never thought “dot dar” was the problem. Maybe update the darbar so it’s virtually instant. And/OR…increase the darbar’s effectiveness so it’s more accurate without feeding too much information (like making it cover quarters of sectors). This makes it easier to find the enemy without painting them on the clipboard and giving a localized radar advantage for the team with the most players. AWACS makes SA amlost irrelevant. Nullifies clouds. Ruins the advantage of a bubble canopy. Pushes players into faster aircraft to be competitive. Nullifies the C-47 completely. Punishes bomber pilots by painting them for all the world to see. Makes altitude more important. And, most of all, promotes gameplay that avoids conflict as a default.
At the very minimum. If you change nothing that I ask for. Leave the icons at 6k and make the stupid AWACS only show up at 3k or less. That way a player in a horde can at least close come distance before every picker within a grid is instantly vectored towards them.
If none of this is feasible, be kind enough to let a customer of almost three decades know that you have no intention of changing it.
What you’ve actually created is not “AWACS” but ADS-B in/out. Which is horse crap for WWII aviation. If you REALLY need it to find fights… Leave it on in the tower and turn it off in flight. It’s the second biggest mistake you’ve ever made.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hazmatt on October 19, 2026, 03:56:38 AM
YOu wan't me to work with you , start working with me, if you simply keep asking for me to turn it back to the way it was, it is NOT going to happen.
I'm not good at reading between the lines but I'm pretty sure he said: "it is NOT going to happen" So I guess this is dead horse beating at this point.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: caldera on October 19, 2026, 05:56:40 AM
The current radar settings enable individual planes and tanks to be mobile radar towers in enemy territory.
Tanks specifically, can be sitting invisible under a tree. Sending exact enemy numbers to all of their countrymen, while the enemy flies right over them in a vain attempt to find them. A lot like having a spy satellite.
Any single pilot is subject to impromptu gang bangs, wherever they go. Because as soon as one guy sees you, they all do. If you are already engaged by 1 or 2, the rest suddenly find the courage to make it 5 or 6.
Conversely, if one pilot sees a bunch coming, he can head the other way. Fun for everybody!
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 19, 2026, 06:06:05 AM
I'm not good at reading between the lines but I'm pretty sure he said: "it is NOT going to happen" So I guess this is dead horse beating at this point.
Again he said he’s not going to revert it back to the way it was and I haven’t personally asked for that in my crusade.
How about this for working with you HT? I live in Houston. I’ll drive up to Dallas, buy you lunch, and explain my point of view face to face. At which point you can explain your desire to keep it the way it is. After lunch I’ll never bring it up again if that’s what you want. I can do this as early as Halloween weekend.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: The Fugitive on October 19, 2026, 10:39:21 AM
I think the towers should work as they do, but it think they should be harder a bit more like the ammo bunkers were. That seems to have worked well.
I think the delay Hitech mentioned should be tried. I'm not sure what the delay is now, 5 seconds? But 30-60 could be better. That will simulate the time it took to get the info to the dispatchers.
The radar of the gvs is another thing, maybe a delay here of 15-20 seconds.
The issue with how it is now is if you run into a single con and you both are looking forward to a1vs 1 it can't happen as everyone in the area zeros in on the fight. It is not so much "trying to sneak up on someone " it's more about being able to make a plan, or working to pull one or two guys out of the herd to have a fight that you think you might have a chance in.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hitech on October 19, 2026, 11:53:39 AM
I think the towers should work as they do, but it think they should be harder a bit more like the ammo bunkers were. That seems to have worked well.
I think the delay Hitech mentioned should be tried. I'm not sure what the delay is now, 5 seconds? But 30-60 could be better. That will simulate the time it took to get the info to the dispatchers.
The radar of the gvs is another thing, maybe a delay here of 15-20 seconds.
The issue with how it is now is if you run into a single con and you both are looking forward to a1vs 1 it can't happen as everyone in the area zeros in on the fight. It is not so much "trying to sneak up on someone " it's more about being able to make a plan, or working to pull one or two guys out of the herd to have a fight that you think you might have a chance in.
I'm not sure, but have you considered less information may make that worse because players would head toward where they think a fight would most likly be hence all headed same spot?
HiTech
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Lazerr on October 19, 2026, 12:20:37 PM
One thing for certain.. i dont think the radar icon should identify the plane type. The dots were sufficient. If the information is available by hovering over the radar blip, id lean towards removing the bomber/fighter dar icon for friendlies too, just to keep it uniform.
Not sure how I feel about proximity dar without seeing it tried with different settings like range, and a longer delay.
Maybe double the delay and cut the range in half?
I can see the perks of having it to help locate some action, but maybe a little too gamey as it sits.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: The Fugitive on October 19, 2026, 12:30:34 PM
I'm not sure, but have you considered less information may make that worse because players would head toward where they think a fight would most likly be hence all headed same spot?
HiTech
Head to where a fight MAY be or go to where a fight IS like it is now. With the delays they could head where they think a fight MAY be, but after the delay they will know for sure and they can turn away if there isn't one. It would give the 1 vs 1 30-60 seconds to happen and maybe some time to recover for the incoming cons.
The same information would be available, just delayed enough for fights vs gang fest.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hitech on October 19, 2026, 12:34:15 PM
Head to where a fight MAY be or go to where a fight IS like it is now. With the delays they could head where they think a fight MAY be, but after the delay they will know for sure and they can turn away if there isn't one. It would give the 1 vs 1 30-60 seconds to happen and maybe some time to recover for the incoming cons.
The same information would be available, just delayed enough for fights vs gang fest.
I have no issue with trying 30-60 secs.
HiTech
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: The Fugitive on October 19, 2026, 12:36:46 PM
I look forward to trying it out. 😊
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Randy1 on October 19, 2026, 12:51:04 PM
There are several defensive and offensive oddities in the game besides awacs. They are all game functions not simulator functions. Functions intended to enhance and or balance the game. Are you willing to have all non-simulation, gaming functions removed?
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Spikes on October 19, 2026, 12:53:46 PM
Head to where a fight MAY be or go to where a fight IS like it is now. With the delays they could head where they think a fight MAY be, but after the delay they will know for sure and they can turn away if there isn't one. It would give the 1 vs 1 30-60 seconds to happen and maybe some time to recover for the incoming cons.
The same information would be available, just delayed enough for fights vs gang fest.
Sounds an awful lot like a solution easily addressed with a more robust Darbar to me.
Not ideal for me but anything is better than being pounced before you can even close the distance (let alone get a shot off) at first contact encountered.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: captain1ma on October 19, 2026, 02:04:39 PM
so fly around to something that may or may not be there. if not i just wasted all kinds of time getting there. its bad enough the fuel burn is ridicules, but hey lets add an extra burden to finding a fight.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 19, 2026, 02:24:38 PM
so fly around to something that may or may not be there. if not i just wasted all kinds of time getting there. its bad enough the fuel burn is ridicules, but hey lets add an extra burden to finding a fight.
If you can’t find a fight with darbar alone. You’re not looking for one.
What’s the average flight time between bases? 7-8 minutes at a reasonable climb rate? Maybe take more than a quarter tank?
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 19, 2026, 02:35:08 PM
If you can’t find a fight with darbar alone. You’re not looking for one.
What’s the average flight time between bases? 7-8 minutes at a reasonable climb rate? Maybe take more than a quarter tank?
I think more what he’s saying, kind of what I was alluding to as well is that by the time you get somewhere, everyone could be gone so it’s better to know what’s there in some manner.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 19, 2026, 02:59:06 PM
I think more what he’s saying, kind of what I was alluding to as well is that by the time you get somewhere, everyone could be gone so it’s better to know what’s there in some manner.
That could happen on every flight no matter how much information is presented. If the goal is simply to know where everything is all the time simply turn on radar for all at all times. At least then the six guys converging on one wouldn’t have a situational advantage over the one guy who can only see one or two of the six converging on him.
Imagine the whining that would happen if my plane painted tanks on radar the way they currently painted me on radar and I started bombing them with the clipboard.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 19, 2026, 07:01:38 PM
Not a fan of the stuck icons for 45 seconds. What we had was just fine!!!
Everyone is frozen! :uhoh I like the clipboard open when I fly and now it looks like it’s hung up. Who was this appealing to???
All I did was fly around circles for half the night who was this helping? There’s nowhere near enough people for this. It’s 2026 playing a computer game it’s not 1945.
Sorry all… it really bothers me lol.
Can we please go back to yesterday?
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Kermit de frog on October 19, 2026, 08:03:56 PM
Short range fast update radar....long range slow update radar....spotlight constant radar...so many options to pick from and also to adjust for game play.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 19, 2026, 08:17:17 PM
Short range fast update radar....long range slow update radar....spotlight constant radar...so many options to pick from and also to adjust for game play.
Login and see… it’s not popular lol
This will also remove one of my favorite parts of the game, which is flying to the other two fronts to mix it up with everyone. There’s no way I’m flying five sectors for a Darbar that only updates every minute or whatever it is.
Aldo, most people thought it was a glitch.
Larry David is my spirit animal :old:
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Jayz on October 19, 2026, 09:00:24 PM
The new type radar really sucks no1 likes it. You want to talk realism fixed the absolutely lame collision models/Amazing how 2 planes can collide at an impact velocity of over 600 mph and 1 flys away. Things are just getting stupider here IMO. Someone should admit to the change so we can all despise them. LOL
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 19, 2026, 09:04:15 PM
The new type radar really sucks no1 likes it. You want to talk realism fixed the absolutely lame collision models/Amazing how 2 planes can collide at an impact velocity of over 600 mph and 1 flys away. Things are just getting stupider here IMO. Someone should admit to the change so we can all despise them. LOL
Especially when the planes are right next to you, you have to wait for the update. That’s pretty silly.
Good job HT proving this was lame all along! :banana:
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Rubicon on October 20, 2026, 01:24:40 AM
I think this is the issue. When you have a map that gives real time locations you are effectively playing asteroids not a WW2 sim. No WW2 aircraft had any way of knowing this information to this level of detail.
I have not played with the new setting, although I did suggest it. It at least shows Hitech is willing to try change, which is good. Just got to get players to try as well :)
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hazmatt on October 20, 2026, 04:39:37 AM
Short range fast update radar....long range slow update radar....spotlight constant radar...so many options to pick from and also to adjust for game play.
This seems to make sense. At long range you'd have a GCI vector and a genera area and as you got closer you'd have visual from you are the planes around you. Would be interesting to see how it works outside of theory.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Lazerr on October 20, 2026, 06:53:56 AM
Lol you guys are so used to having real time tracking, its almost funny. Guess its time to start using your eyeballs in the sky rather than the clipboard.
Hopefully the settings stay long enough where I can try it out tonight. I think for this delay setting to work properly, the range should be cut down to 3 or 4k too.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 20, 2026, 07:47:29 AM
Dogfights via clipboard need to come to an end. Players as individual radar towers just need to stop. Have the radar rings work as they always have with the current radar presentation (icons and quick updates). Change darbar so it updates immediately and make it more robust by dividing the current grids into 4 quadrants so darbar is more effective at finding the enemy without giving away all the information. Pilots need to start using their eyes instead of an iPad.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: ~ZoSo~ on October 20, 2026, 10:10:51 AM
No Dar and an even a more robust ENY setting (WW1 planes) = Way more fun! If we’re to going eff the game up, let’s go all the way! :banana: :banana: :banana:
I hear there is way more realism in DCS, all the 1V1 action you can stand.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 20, 2026, 10:19:54 AM
ITS A VIDEO GAME!!!
Some of you need to get over yourselves a tad. So if I don’t do it without the clipboard open, just because I like to see where people are mostly my own country and what’s going on while I’m flying I’m somehow doing it wrong?
Why would anyone new want to come around here with that silliness.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Jayz on October 20, 2026, 10:26:37 AM
wow they are even muting/censoring chat here
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 20, 2026, 10:27:45 AM
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Gooss on October 20, 2026, 10:44:00 AM
I liked the dar system fine.
Sure I can be looking around for 15 minutes before finding a fight or look at the clipboard and know where to go. If I had to spend all my time looking around, what do I do with my beer, sandwich, snacks, and phone text conversations?
Letting Hitech know that not all of us want it to change.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Jayz on October 20, 2026, 10:50:58 AM
The point is the radar setup in FSO and Scenarios is fine and as it should be. however, in the main arena all the new radar just wastes a lot of time looking for a fight and makes it even more difficult for new players to have fun, hence the declining numbers in AH. If you want radar realism come join us in FSO and Scenarios. The Melee is for practice and fun.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 20, 2026, 10:58:56 AM
You want to talk realism fixed the absolutely lame collision models/Amazing how 2 planes can collide at an impact velocity of over 600 mph and 1 flys away. Things are just getting stupider here IMO. Someone should admit to the change so we can all despise them. LOL
WHOA there cowboy. Next you’ll have 23 pages of insults to how stupid to suggest such a thang. First they’ll say mutual damage can’t be done and shiw videos of what the distance is online Then when you point out it can be corrected you’ll get how stupid you are that you don’t understand the above.
Then you show code and it comes out it’s a decision not a code restraint.
Lets not mention the game already takes a life with 2 FEs distance differences.
But wait there’s more,…
Next you’ll have the bbs clique attack you because you defended findings against constant insults from,…. You got it,… the bbs clique.
Then you’ll get blamed for a mountain you created on a Fn wishlist request and they will ignore it’s long because of bbs clique attacks.
Oh ya, I held a gun to their heads and forced to create 23 pages of personal insults. God forbid I’m stupid enough to defend myself against the “elite”.
My middle finger grows bigger daily
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 20, 2026, 11:00:35 AM
Sure I can be looking around for 15 minutes before finding a fight or look at the clipboard and know where to go. If I had to spend all my time looking around, what do I do with my beer, sandwich, snacks, and phone text conversations?
Letting Hitech know that not all of us want it to change.
Same thing changed in the beginning, the chosen few.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 20, 2026, 11:18:53 AM
Some of you need to get over yourselves a tad. So if I don’t do it without the clipboard open, just because I like to see where people are mostly my own country and what’s going on while I’m flying I’m somehow doing it wrong?
Why would anyone new want to come around here with that silliness.
Seeing your countrymen has always been part of the clipboard and has nothing to do with AWACS. You can see every player on your team all the time right now. Always been that way. I’m not advocating to take that part away. I’m not saying you’re doing anything wrong either. You’re using the tools given as we all do. What I am saying is enemy (and only enemy) radar icons outside tower range should not be a thing. It’s an imbalance to the air game because it favors the group (within a sector or so) that has the most numbers (see horde).
Why do I hate it? Because I remember what the game was like before it was instituted and it was better. Much better. You could have fights and take one or two out before a fleet of pickers overwhelmed you like it was world war Z. If you lost sight of your prey, you couldn’t just bring up the clipboard to figure out where the red guy was. Aircraft didn’t turn away from you before you were even in in range. Groups of players didn’t sit like middle schooler on opposite sides of the gym because they were afraid to be the first ones on the dance floor. Aggressive players weren’t crippled by overwhelming odds. Goons were still viable as tools for base capture. You could limp away after a fight you barely won and have a chance to make it home. Your plane didn’t need to be capable of 400mph to occasionally escape a fight. You didn’t need to be at 15k just to be semi-competitive. On and on and on.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 20, 2026, 11:43:21 AM
Sorry there is just not enough people to be constantly looking for things.
Is this is why anyone stopped playing then they need new hobbies. Try not to take everything so seriously. Nothing is perfect.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 20, 2026, 11:57:34 AM
Run a poll on clipboard in game. Bbs can be very deceiving of a select few. Bbs is not the full masses
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 20, 2026, 12:14:57 PM
Sorry there is just not enough people to be constantly looking for things.
Is this is why anyone stopped playing then they need new hobbies. Try not to take everything so seriously. Nothing is perfect.
It wasn’t perfect before. And I’m not saying we should revert to exactly how it was. I’m actually proposing changes that would allow the finding of enemy aircraft without the bias against bieng out numbered that is now prevalent. There are enough people if we make some adjustments.
Everyone keeps talking about how they can’t find action. What about players like me who have zero problems with that because we’re plowing into the biggest red swarm we can find. What happens when I quit because the fun that I found for years can’t be attained anymore without spoon feeding others information they don’t NEED but really just kinda want. How fun will it be for you to have AWACS but no one is there to be found because players like me are getting tired of being punching bags for folks who can’t be bothered to fly an acres minute or two to actually get in icon range and look out the window?
AWACS is the only setting that I’m aware of that has literally caused players (documented) to quit the game. The only one. Let’s fix it and send out some invitations.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 20, 2026, 12:16:31 PM
Run a poll on clipboard in game. Bbs can be very deceiving of a select few. Bbs is not the full masses
It’s open for copy and pasting lol
Nobody has to keep pointing out it’s possible just the BBS people answer lol. It was literally in the original post. In fact that would be the better thing to have on the clipboard where you can open the BBS in the game or just a link to it. It’s certainly possible people don’t even know this existence, but still play the game.
So far 31 people have responded.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 20, 2026, 12:17:29 PM
It wasn’t perfect before. And I’m not saying we should revert to exactly how it was. I’m actually proposing changes that would allow the finding of enemy aircraft without the bias against bieng out numbered that is now prevalent. There are enough people if we make some adjustments.
Everyone keeps talking about how they can’t find action. What about players like me who have zero problems with that because we’re plowing into the biggest red swarm we can find. What happens when I quit because the fun that I found for years can’t be attained anymore without spoon feeding others information they don’t NEED but really just kinda want. How fun will it be for you to have AWACS but no one is there to be found because players like me are getting tired of being punching bags for folks who can’t be bothered to fly an acres minute or two to actually get in icon range and look out the window?
AWACS is the only setting that I’m aware of that has literally caused players (documented) to quit the game. The only one. Let’s fix it and send out some invitations.
I’m always up for trying new things.
We are trying 45 second delay right now… we should stop trying that one lol.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 20, 2026, 12:28:36 PM
We are trying 45 second delay right now… we should stop trying that one lol.
I’m not digging the 45 sec. Now we gone from too much info to deceiving info.
I’m totally burned out on this convo. Trying to appease a small group. Just put something in place and move on. 45 sec is nonsense in my lamer opinion, at that point just turn it off totally. I don’t care what it is, lets argue about something new.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Banshee7 on October 20, 2026, 12:31:33 PM
Why do I hate it? Because I remember what the game was like before it was instituted and it was better. Much better. You could have fights and take one or two out before a fleet of pickers overwhelmed you like it was world war Z. If you lost sight of your prey, you couldn’t just bring up the clipboard to figure out where the red guy was. Aircraft didn’t turn away from you before you were even in in range. Groups of players didn’t sit like middle schooler on opposite sides of the gym because they were afraid to be the first ones on the dance floor. Aggressive players weren’t crippled by overwhelming odds. Goons were still viable as tools for base capture. You could limp away after a fight you barely won and have a chance to make it home. Your plane didn’t need to be capable of 400mph to occasionally escape a fight. You didn’t need to be at 15k just to be semi-competitive. On and on and on.
:aok :cheers:
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 20, 2026, 12:35:15 PM
I’m not digging the 45 sec. Now we gone from too much info to deceiving info.
I’m totally burned out on this convo. Trying to appease a small group. Just put something in place and move on. 45 sec is nonsense in my lamer opinion, at that point just turn it off totally. I don’t care what it is, lets argue about something new.
We agree on something! Now, if you could just agree that Paris is the capital of France we’re in business! :cheers:
I do not like it at all and if it sticks around, it will take a lot of getting used to because last night. I flew in a lot of circles alone.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 20, 2026, 01:15:17 PM
I’m not digging the 45 sec. Now we gone from too much info to deceiving info.
I’m totally burned out on this convo. Trying to appease a small group. Just put something in place and move on. 45 sec is nonsense in my lamer opinion, at that point just turn it off totally. I don’t care what it is, lets argue about something new.
Which small group? Dad’s own survey came in 57 to 19 for reversion to dot dar?
This thing where people can’t find each other without AWACS is just baffling to me. I literally spent two hours by myself trying to spark a fight on the Knight/Bish front last night by myself while the Rooks got pounded. Three pilots upped to meet me (Shoutout to Obsidian, Mothman, Cherokee6 for some good fights). There was no circling. No one was lost. No one was hiding. Half a map to fly around in and I found the only guys who could be bothered to get in a plane and lift off the runway.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 20, 2026, 01:20:59 PM
Which small group? Dad’s own survey came in 57 to 19 for reversion to dot dar?
This thing where people can’t find each other without AWACS is just baffling to me. I literally spent two hours by myself trying to spark a fight on the Knight/Bish front last night by myself while the Rooks got pounded. Three pilots upped to meet me (Shoutout to Obsidian, Mothman, Cherokee6 for some good fights). There was no circling. No one was lost. No one was hiding. Half a map to fly around in and I found the only guys who could be bothered to get in a plane and lift off the runway.
The poll question was about dots not about time and yes right now most people prefer dots or don’t care. You could have it look like gummy bears, and I wouldn’t care that’s not my issue.
The 45 second timer is no fun. Did you try it?
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 20, 2026, 01:40:37 PM
The poor question was about dots not about time and yes right now most people prefer dots or don’t care. You could have it look like gummy bears, and I wouldn’t care that’s not my issue.
The 45 second timer is no fun. Did you try it?
You realize that dot dar did NOT include AWACS right? A revision to that system would not include every plane and GV is a radar tower. Only radar towers provided “dots”. No AWACS.
If the 45 second timer was on last night. I did try it. Still found the three pilots in all of Bishdom (as well as a wirb by shadowx) who could be bothered to do anything about my attacks.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hitech on October 20, 2026, 01:54:33 PM
You realize that dot dar did NOT include AWACS right? A revision to that system would not include every plane and GV is a radar tower. Only radar towers provided “dots”. No AWACS.
If the 45 second timer was on last night. I did try it. Still found the three pilots in all of Bishdom (as well as a wirb by shadowx) who could be bothered to do anything about my attacks.
We are not going back. And you would do well to not point the finger at other people not wanting to play your way.
HiTech
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 20, 2026, 01:54:47 PM
You realize that dot dar did NOT include AWACS right? A revision to that system would not include every plane and GV is a radar tower. Only radar towers provided “dots”. No AWACS.
If the 45 second timer was on last night. I did try it. Still found the three pilots in all of Bishdom (as well as a wirb by shadowx) who could be bothered to do anything about my attacks.
That was then my friend, this is now. We’re in now now.
Like I said, I don’t care what the picture is. I just don’t like the timer. I also think AWACS is a bit disingenuous for people to keep tossing around.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 20, 2026, 02:41:37 PM
We are not going back. And you would do well to not point the finger at other people not wanting to play your way.
HiTech
I’m not asking for people to play my way. If anything YOU have forced me from my way of playing. And for the umpteenth time, I’m not asking to go back to “dot dar”. I’m asking for a compromise that doesn’t stop anyone from doing anything they don’t already do and perhaps mitigates some of the other problems the game is currently encountering. I’ve literally offered to drive a seven hour round trip, buy you lunch, and explain (in depth) what I think would help (not just me but) the game. As a customer who’s been subscribed continuously for what…20+ years now?
So, just for absolute clarification on the only part I truly care about…
Every tank and plane is a 6k radar tower until the game folds?
If true. I’ll let it go.
If not. I look forward to lunch where we can have civil discussion and maybe talk about real planes and flying a bit too. Or, if you’re inclined, you can fire up the RV-8 (if you still have it) and I’ll pick you up at KDWH for some local BBQ.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: CptTrips on October 20, 2026, 02:45:24 PM
We are not going back. And you would do well to not point the finger at other people not wanting to play your way.
I'm not intending this as an argument, but could you clarify why the previous system was insufficient and why the new system is at least better than the original? It might help suggestions to know the underlying motivation more clearly so any suggestion makes sure it covers the proper constraints.
I can see the need to help channel the action to contacts.
I've also seen lots of videos of players leaving the clipboard up permanently and positioning and sizing it like it was a dashboard radar screen. As Lusche said, they don't even have to visually scan around them to prevent being bounced. That removes a lot of tension\surprise\fear out of the gameplay, no? Not really possible to sneak up and dive on a bomber out of the sun in a surprise attack. And bounces were like over 80% of the kills in WWI\WWII.
Just brainstorming...
* Games I've played like Battlefield, required players to manually mark enemies to show their position on friendlies map. Maybe it could work like the CHeck-6 mechanism. Force players to put in the effort to convey an enemy position to team-mates. That would still allow the possibility of a bounce if you sneakup on a bomber and no one else is around the to mark you. In those games, spotting becomes a powerful gameplay tool. It can really tilt odds. But you never know if someone is sneaking up on you without having been spotted so you still have to scan around you. But you still have a chance to sneak up behind someone for a knife kill.
* What about a very long update delay like 3 minutes (How long did it take a spotter to find you, radio in, and that info re-transmitted to you in the air? Probably at least 5 min in real life.) but the icon is stationary at the position of mark and fades opacity over the update time. So you can see it but tell it is an old mark because it is only 20% opacity? They would give some idea of position without false precision because the opacity conveys how stale the report is.
* What if there was a key to show a heat-map overlay of 5x5 mile cells with opacity showing number of enemy in that cell? Maybe that is all you get unless a team-mate manually marks an enemy.
Just ideas to discuss. I'm not advocating.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Shane on October 20, 2026, 02:50:28 PM
I'd be okay with dots being implemented the same way they are now, just removing that plane type/bearing info.
Radar is too fragile to go to dar-circle only when the numbers no longer present mass actions on all fronts. I'd also put the radar update back to where it was, 45 secs is a bit too long.
I'm even more than ok with re-adding actual gv dar with a 30+ sec delay - that'd reduce a lot of gv camping and potentially some of the whines about being impossibly seen. Tank Night Thursdays are fun because of it.
In FSO and scenarios, changing the radar parameters makes sense, but not for MA.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Randy1 on October 20, 2026, 03:35:20 PM
Th
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Randy1 on October 20, 2026, 03:36:29 PM
Thank you lilmak it is really screwed up now. :furious
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Shane on October 20, 2026, 05:49:23 PM
Here's a compromise, doable, I dunno.
Tower radar while it's up gives plane/type and heading (like now), and if dar gets destroyed it only shows dots, or nothing.
For planes and GVs, proxmity dar will always be dots, unless in an active radar ring, where dar status takes precedence.
And not 45 second delayed.... maybe 15-20 seconds?
Proxmity ranges can also be reviewed.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 20, 2026, 06:04:56 PM
Thank you lilmak it is really screwed up now. :furious
What made you think lilmak had anyting to do with this implementation?
It was suggested by me. lilmak does not agree with it.
Please read and understand before posting, expecially if you are unable to actually engage in civil discussion.
The fact that Hitech has implemented a change is good. It shows he does listen and is willing to try stuff. Not everything can be right first time but if there is no experimentation then there will be no forward movement.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Lazerr on October 20, 2026, 06:10:42 PM
What made you think lilmak had anyting to do with this implementation?
It was suggested by me. lilmak does not agree with it.
Please read and understand before posting, expecially if you are unable to actually engage in civil discussion.
The fact that Hitech has implemented a change is good. It shows he does listen and is willing to try stuff. Not everything can be right first time but if there is no experimentation then there will be no forward movement.
What was the previous setting, and what is it now?
Thank you for using some logic.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Rubicon on October 20, 2026, 06:14:22 PM
I believe the previous delay was 5 seconds and the current one is 45 seconds but only Hitech can answer that with certainty.
Pretty sure you’re right on the five, but I can tell you the 45 is a bit overkill. I really don’t see any reason why it shouldn’t stay at 5. There’s just not enough people to matter otherwise yet.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 20, 2026, 07:03:39 PM
Pretty sure you’re right on the five, but I can tell you the 45 is a bit overkill. I really don’t see any reason why it shouldn’t stay at 5. There’s just not enough people to matter otherwise yet.
Zero trouble finding a fight tonight at 45. ZERO. Darbar and eyeballs are your friends.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 20, 2026, 07:28:16 PM
Zero trouble finding a fight tonight at 45. ZERO. Darbar and eyeballs are your friends.
I’m not having any trouble finding them either. I still very much don’t like it.
The current map is condensed enough and everyone is the middle bit that won’t be always.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Wiley on October 20, 2026, 08:10:42 PM
Tonight was interesting, people are definitely adjusting. My opinion, not a fan of friendly dar and bar dar being on a delay. If it were me I'd make bardar, friend and foe icons on the clipboard independent of one another with their own settings. Friendly closer to realtime, foe at some kind of delay. Bardar should be near realtime IMO.
Curious to see where it goes from here.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: JimmyD3 on October 20, 2026, 08:50:40 PM
It's almost useless at 45. To look is deceiving, better off not.
It was fine the way it was 30/35 will be the same as 45.
If a plane is underneath me, it shouldn’t take several seconds to show up be beneath me on a clipboard map IN A VIDEO GAME. This has nothing to do about finding a fight or hiding hoardes or blah blah blah.
I just don’t like it and I also don’t feel it fits with what we have. The subjectivity of this game is its strength. This is mine.
When you only play for a hour or so, at a clip half your time is going to be spent getting somewhere. If I wanted my situational awareness to be December 1943, I would go find a game that did thaT. There’s a reason I found this one… for decades.
Not everything has to be the most realistic thing ever. There just isn’t enough people.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 21, 2026, 09:57:13 AM
It was fine the way it was 30/35 will be the same as 45.
If a plane is underneath me, it shouldn’t take several seconds to show up be beneath me on a clipboard map IN A VIDEO GAME. This has nothing to do about finding a fight or hiding hoardes or blah blah blah.
I just don’t like it and I also don’t feel it fits with what we have. The subjectivity of this game is its strength. This is mine.
When you only play for a hour or so, at a clip half your time is going to be spent getting somewhere. If I wanted my situational awareness to be December 1943, I would go find a game that did thaT. There’s a reason I found this one… for decades.
Not everything has to be the most realistic thing ever. There just isn’t enough people.
Some of us have been saying realism is scenarios and fso. MA is the game part and for practice.
Some players say too much time sitting. Which is not true. If you run a squad mission and need 2-3 sectors to get alt it’s the same time sitting doing nothing. Except in scenarios your efforts put you in a huge battle. MA missions may not deliver that at all. I think those who say it just can’t handle a huge furball. A lot of comments from the sandbox are just erroneous.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Lazerr on October 21, 2026, 09:58:54 AM
I liked the thrill of having to look over my shoulder again personally. I also caught a few people not paying attention very well, you can tell a lot of folks were using it as a crutch.
The 45 seconds for dar to refresh gives you alot of time to close in on bad guys not looking around.
I'd still cut the range down to 4k for planes, even less or 0 for gvs.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: The Fugitive on October 21, 2026, 10:02:49 AM
It was fine the way it was 30/35 will be the same as 45.
If a plane is underneath me, it shouldn’t take several seconds to show up be beneath me on a clipboard map IN A VIDEO GAME. This has nothing to do about finding a fight or hiding hoardes or blah blah blah.
I just don’t like it and I also don’t feel it fits with what we have. The subjectivity of this game is its strength. This is mine.
When you only play for a hour or so, at a clip half your time is going to be spent getting somewhere. If I wanted my situational awareness to be December 1943, I would go find a game that did thaT. There’s a reason I found this one… for decades.
Not everything has to be the most realistic thing ever. There just isn’t enough people.
This radar was introduced well after the Steam connection. The old radar was a lot tougher. If a plane was under you you should be rolling and scanning to spot it. That is how you flew. Every few seconds you checked your views and added a roll just to keep an eye on the immediate airspace. If you didn't, you were in the tower pretty quick.
I havent had a chance to try out the new settings. I just back from my grandbabies birthday in Vegas. I hope to give it a try tonight, maybe tomorrow. Its not about being realistic, its about giving players a chance to fight with out a horde descending on them the second one guy paints him with dar showing everyone else on that team were a single con is.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 21, 2026, 10:03:11 AM
The 45 mentally throws one off. You’re better off not going by dar. It certainly changed the game, not sure if that is good or bad. One player got frustrated and decided to take s break from the game, one logged off. 3 said it destroyed it. Only a few praised it on 200
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 21, 2026, 10:06:30 AM
I think a poll should run on clipboard
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 21, 2026, 10:29:21 AM
It was fine the way it was 30/35 will be the same as 45.
If a plane is underneath me, it shouldn’t take several seconds to show up be beneath me on a clipboard map IN A VIDEO GAME. This has nothing to do about finding a fight or hiding hoardes or blah blah blah.
I just don’t like it and I also don’t feel it fits with what we have. The subjectivity of this game is its strength. This is mine.
When you only play for a hour or so, at a clip half your time is going to be spent getting somewhere. If I wanted my situational awareness to be December 1943, I would go find a game that did thaT. There’s a reason I found this one… for decades.
Not everything has to be the most realistic thing ever. There just isn’t enough people.
Really? You’re upset you can’t see through your plane without the clipboard? If a plane is underneath you, it takes zero seconds to see them by looking out the window. Maybe a half a second if you have roll the plane to see under your wing.
I think you just need an adjustment period to get over your clipboard addiction. Just exercise that atrophied hat switch digit and it’ll get better.
I've also seen lots of videos of players leaving the clipboard up permanently and positioning and sizing it like it was a dashboard radar screen.
Guilty.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 21, 2026, 11:18:31 AM
How a player flies or uses clipboard is person preference, not for someone to police.
Running a poll on clipboard helps ensure that we are not upsetting the masses to please a few on bbs.
That said 200 was not consumed with negatives. But we cannot afford any players.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: popeye on October 21, 2026, 11:19:34 AM
If the radar update rate remains relatively long (more than 10 seconds), it would be useful if the most recent radar picture was immediately displayed to a player when he first logs into the arena. Otherwise, the arena looks very dead until the radar updates. Maybe not a good first impression for newer players (or those who are unaware that the update rate has been changed).
(Not a big deal if it's difficult to do...)
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 21, 2026, 11:27:55 AM
If the radar update rate remains relatively long (more than 10 seconds), it would be useful if the most recent radar picture was immediately displayed to a player when he first logs into the arena. Otherwise, the arena looks very dead until the radar updates. Maybe not a good first impression for newer players (or those who are unaware that the update rate has been changed).
(Not a big deal if it's difficult to do...)
I had the same thought.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Banshee7 on October 21, 2026, 11:31:31 AM
I am also guilty, but it was not for a lack of SA. I always kept the clipboard up to make sure the fight hadn't shifted to another base or front, seeing that fights seems to shift more quickly now. Once I got anywhere near the fight I actually used SA.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 21, 2026, 11:37:45 AM
Actually running clipboard polls on some changes, not just this one, could be helpful on the pulse of the players.
It’s the purest way to have a poll.
While good intensions, a poll with a link to anyone who visits bbs and sees or receives it is subject to skewed results. Not all will be subscribers.
In game to subscribers is much more pure results.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hitech on October 21, 2026, 12:08:52 PM
Previous was 5 switching it to 20 now
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 21, 2026, 12:13:31 PM
Here’s my thoughts on the update.
First, overall I think it’s a vast improvement.
The fights were better. Being outnumbered didn’t mean instant death. Fights on the fringes resulted in some good quality combat without being instantly overwhelmed. Defenders seemed to pop up at attacked bases because they weren’t positive what the attacking force looked like and the roles from attacking and defending could quickly flip rather than just seal clubbing defenders into submission. I witnessed this as an attacker and defender. Combat was easy to find. Darbar still works ad a tool for discovering the enemy. The map itself contributed to this (good design) with 3 way action happening regularly. Bombers appeared to enjoy a bit more success getting through.
Something is funky with the refresh. Friendly player names and aircraft type would not display unless the radar had recently refreshed. Not a huge deal but something of note and slightly annoying.
Active radar rings where the tower is still up should have a higher refresh rate (if possible) adding to their strategic importance and supplementing defensive operations.
The comments I heard were mostly confusion about the update. Not necessarily bad or good but general misunderstanding. There was some bad and some good. Pilots like me loved it. Others were upset.
I think it should marinate where it is for a couple weeks before adjustments are made but believe it might need to be drawn back to about 35 seconds (if the tower refresh can’t be adjusted independently). Mostly because a good chunk of a radar ring can be traversed in 45 seconds.
As far as polling is concerned. I’d be careful because the tendency of players is to always take the path of least resistance. If you put up a poll that asked if 163s should have unlimited fuel, ammo, and six twenties with an ENY of 35, you’d destroy the game.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 21, 2026, 12:21:33 PM
This is probably fine everyone can adjust I suppose.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: AKIron on October 21, 2026, 12:50:36 PM
Maybe an option to turn off the radar for you only. That would remove you from the map for everyone but also remove everyone else from your map. Limit the frequency of the on/off switch. Maybe once every 10 mins.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 21, 2026, 01:32:22 PM
I liked the thrill of having to look over my shoulder again personally. I also caught a few people not paying attention very well, you can tell a lot of folks were using it as a crutch.
The 45 seconds for dar to refresh gives you alot of time to close in on bad guys not looking around.
I'd still cut the range down to 4k for planes, even less or 0 for gvs.
Agreed on all counts of you’re referring to mobile radar towers. Icons should stay at 6 (eyeballs) but proximity dar should be 4 or 3 for aircraft and 0 for GVs. I’m thankful the MA was a blast for one night and I had time to play. 20 seconds might be enough but I’m skeptical and fear the clipboard addiction will not abate without further “adjustments” in the wrong direction. We shall see.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 21, 2026, 05:27:40 PM
I feel like this is an over correction given how new it is. 30 would’ve been nice.
The art of compromise is no one leaves perfectly happy. A few in my sqd are in a bit of uproar, others not, and we don’t have a buffer for mistakes..
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 21, 2026, 05:52:50 PM
Quote
As far as polling is concerned. I’d be careful because the tendency of players is to always take the path of least resistance. If you put up a poll that asked if 163s should have unlimited fuel, ammo, and six twenties with an ENY of 35, you’d destroy the game.
1) It's a lot more accurate than open to public poll. it's isolated input.
2) A poll doesn't have to be run on every issue, just ones HT needs feedback to.
3) A disclaimer can be put in that no poll automatically dictates an outcome.
4) On bbs we are not reaching out to the masses, just an opinionated few. Most my sqd only knows what I relay because many rarely visit bbs. It can get too toxic.
I think when an idea is put forward the masses should have say and it should stand up to that.
It doesn't have to be "poll of the week", it's a dev tool.
It's just a thought, not a demand.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: ~ZoSo~ on October 21, 2026, 06:50:03 PM
The art of compromise is no one leaves perfectly happy. A few in my sqd are in a bit of uproar, others not, and we don’t have a buffer for mistakes..
I’m thinking the 20” delay should placate those incessantly whining about AWACS! Might as well not have had any radar at the 45” setting. One never has to fly into the hoard. Now if there could be a way to find the invisible ground vehicles.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Shane on October 21, 2026, 07:41:15 PM
I’m thinking the 20” delay should placate those incessantly whining about AWACS! Might as well not have had any radar at the 45” setting. One never has to fly into the hoard. Now if there could be a way to find the invisible ground vehicles.
There is a gv dar icon setting that has an adjustable update time - like planes, but for GVs... it's enabled in TNT Tank Night Thursdays in AvA arena. Makes for fun run and gun - fire and displace.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 21, 2026, 08:03:07 PM
I’m thinking the 20” delay should placate those incessantly whining about AWACS! Might as well not have had any radar at the 45” setting. One never has to fly into the hoard. Now if there could be a way to find the invisible ground vehicles.
It might placate me. I’ll give it a try. I was honestly surprised how well the 45 second thing worked even though it is still a poor substitute for AWII style radar. Instead of backing that off slowly or giving it time to set in, the reaction was to instantly cut it by more than half. No time to play today. Hopefully I’ll get to try the 20 second thing before the clipboard crack heads get it down to zero.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: ~ZoSo~ on October 21, 2026, 08:56:12 PM
It might placate me. I’ll give it a try. I was honestly surprised how well the 45 second thing worked even though it is still a poor substitute for AWII style radar. Instead of backing that off slowly or giving it time to set in, the reaction was to instantly cut it by more than half. No time to play today. Hopefully I’ll get to try the 20 second thing before the clipboard crack heads get it down to zero.
Honestly LilMac, I do understand where you are coming from but IMHO, the 45” setting was too much and I think each planes radar should be restricted to nothing less than maybe 1.0 to 2.0 in distance. I’m all for lose sight lose the fight. GVs don’t need radar, a lot of us can’t see them so why should they see us. And those are my whines. :salute
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 22, 2026, 07:04:11 AM
Honestly LilMac, I do understand where you are coming from but IMHO, the 45” setting was too much and I think each planes radar should be restricted to nothing less than maybe 1.0 to 2.0 in distance. I’m all for lose sight lose the fight. GVs don’t need radar, a lot of us can’t see them so why should they see us. And those are my whines. :salute
I’m with you on all of this. I felt that the 45 seconds was too long as well because it affects the radar towers refresh rate too. The timer/lag appears to be a global setting that is not differentiating between a tower and aircraft/GVs. GVs are a major sticking point for me. They shouldn’t have radar at all. The exception perhaps being a PT boat because it has a radar mast and can’t paint radar while invisible under trees.
Drawing in personal radar towers to 1-2k distance with a 15 second delay might be the sweet spot.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hitech on October 22, 2026, 09:08:23 AM
I’m with you on all of this. I felt that the 45 seconds was too long as well because it affects the radar towers refresh rate too. The timer/lag appears to be a global setting that is not differentiating between a tower and aircraft/GVs. GVs are a major sticking point for me. They shouldn’t have radar at all. The exception perhaps being a PT boat because it has a radar mast and can’t paint radar while invisible under trees.
Drawing in personal radar towers to 1-2k distance with a 15 second delay might be the sweet spot.
As I said LilMak it isn't supposed to be radar. You keep trying to compare it to radar in reality it is meant to represent all systems of observing aircraft and radio transmitions.
HiTech
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 22, 2026, 09:56:24 AM
As I said LilMak it isn't supposed to be radar. You keep trying to compare it to radar in reality it is meant to represent all systems of observing aircraft and radio transmitions.
HiTech
Alright. Can I have coms simulate forward observers so I can know exactly where tanks are and put them on the clipboard so I can bomb them?
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 22, 2026, 10:03:41 AM
The radar issue went so well, it would only be right for HiTech to grant you this second wish as well. :rofl
I thought radar towers provided radar information for all of AH’s existence only to find out today that they’re actually communications. Here I thought the all this time darbar simulated communication and spotters and such.
Boy do I feel stupid. I was thinking that planes vehicles were providing the exact information “radar towers” were only to find out it’s comms. Not radar at all. Glad that’s cleared up. Perhaps we need to rename the strats and towers to “communication”. If I had to guess, that’s where I got crossed up because they’re clearly labeled as radar and provide the exact same information. Here I thought the transmit button and multiple radio channels and text was for communication. Geez. I sure do feel stupid.
Since it’s all cleared up, I’d like to apologize for where I went wrong and would respectfully request to have forward observers provide communications so I can see tanks the way they see me? Seems only fair since it’s not radar.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 22, 2026, 12:28:57 PM
I thought radar towers provided radar information for all of AH’s existence only to find out today that they’re actually communications. Here I thought the all this time darbar simulated communication and spotters and such.
Boy do I feel stupid. I was thinking that planes vehicles were providing the exact information “radar towers” were only to find out it’s comms. Not radar at all. Glad that’s cleared up. Perhaps we need to rename the strats and towers to “communication”. If I had to guess, that’s where I got crossed up because they’re clearly labeled as radar and provide the exact same information. Here I thought the transmit button and multiple radio channels and text was for communication. Geez. I sure do feel stupid.
Since it’s all cleared up, I’d like to apologize for where I went wrong and would respectfully request to have forward observers provide communications so I can see tanks the way they see me? Seems only fair since it’s not radar.
Thats how plotting tables work, radar + comms + spotters/radio/phones
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 22, 2026, 01:07:33 PM
Would that be realistic is parked out of sight in trees? <shrug> they are indicated in a block as in they are there, but can’t pin point exact locations of individual hidden tanks. An AC is easily viewed
Watch last part of MotA about 15.10 https://youtu.be/rQiA2yMiZf0
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 22, 2026, 01:50:50 PM
Would that be realistic is parked out of sight in trees? <shrug> they are indicated in a block as in they are there, but can’t pin point exact locations of individual hidden tanks. An AC is easily viewed
Watch last part of MotA about 15.10 https://youtu.be/rQiA2yMiZf0
Absolutely it would be realistic. As a matter of fact it was done in WWII. A static tank is a dead tank. Either from artillery or close air support. At the very minimum, from a game standpoint, a storch should light up a tank like a Christmas tree…after the 20 seconds of course.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Rubicon on October 22, 2026, 01:53:13 PM
Plotters / ground based comms could not yell "he's behind you!" to the pilot.
And on the subject of tanks, trees were not some magical cloaking device. They gave cover from detection but not invisibility.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Lazerr on October 22, 2026, 01:59:11 PM
Yeah the ability for folks to game the details settings making them able to see you before you can see them makes the tanking here almost funny.
Nobody gamed the detail settings.
You failed to mention that you brought a T2 to a well defended VH base, on one of the sparsest covered maps with regard to trees, and bushes. Your lack of awareness in a GV is why you lost your Tiger. Your comments on the subject yesterday and today are what makes it funny.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: save on October 23, 2026, 06:05:36 AM
Having both IRL experience of tanks, and flying planes: You find tanks by checking tank-tracks. specially effective in snow/mud. Tanks were normally camouflaged or dug-in when static in a defensive position.
Only company level tanks had the ability to call down artillery, and talk directly to planes ( you needed separate radios for it) and most did not have it. They are normally fitted with big antennas.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 23, 2026, 07:39:06 AM
Having both IRL experience of tanks, and flying planes: You find tanks by checking tank-tracks. specially effective in snow/mud. Tanks were normally camouflaged or dug-in when static in a defensive position.
Only company level tanks had the ability to call down artillery, and talk directly to planes ( you needed separate radios for it) and most did not have it. They are normally fitted with big antennas.
Having been IRL artillery I can also say company level tanks aren’t the only ones with radios on the battlefield. As a matter of fact, fighter pilots were used as FOs in WWII specifically to communicate with close air support aircraft to pinpoint enemy armor/positions.
Since we’re now established that AH “radar” isn’t “radar” I expect all GVs painted on my clipboard the same way they paint my plane on a clipboard.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Shane on October 23, 2026, 08:18:47 AM
Having been IRL artillery I can also say company level tanks aren’t the only ones with radios on the battlefield. As a matter of fact, fighter pilots were used as FOs in WWII specifically to communicate with close air support aircraft to pinpoint enemy armor/positions.
Since we’re now established that AH “radar” isn’t “radar” I expect all GVs painted on my clipboard the same way they paint my plane on a clipboard.
It's doable with existing settings. GVs have gv icons on clipboard with a 30 second delay in Tank Night Thursdays. Makes for more shoot and displace than camp or bush hiding. Much fun.
I'm all for it, but can see it might be problematic with low numbers - harder to "sneak" a base.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 23, 2026, 08:32:39 AM
Good example when programmer gives into a few they just get addicted to argue for more and more.
You got a change, don’t be greedy
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: -gg- on October 23, 2026, 10:19:26 AM
Place polls in the game upon exiting. Get opinions from everyone who actually play the game and not just the few that come here and are vocal about something.
Make changes carefully.
Get an exit poll on ENY.
ENY is the biggest pain in the bellybutton in the game, in my opinion. It does not do what it was designed to do. It DOES equalize numbers, but it does so because people sit in the tower and then log out after it lingers too long.
But get AI to look at the effects of things that can actually be tracked. Get Polls going IN GAME. I suggested that a way back because people here seem to think they "KNOW" what people want and what works and doesn't work in the game.
I've not played since the DAR update, so I can't give an opinion on that. I do know that a few people in my squad were pissed about how it was working ( said it looks like a glitch/freeze) and also pissed that changes occur seemingly over just a couple people on this forum being vocal about it.
I've asked people in my squad to come here to voice their opinions but they wont. They don't want to get piled on or argue.
Just know that there are lots of people who are affected by things and will never come here to say anything. ENY is one of those things.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hitech on October 23, 2026, 11:22:06 AM
ENY is the biggest pain in the bellybutton in the game, in my opinion. It does not do what it was designed to do. It DOES equalize numbers, but it does so because people sit in the tower and then log out after it lingers too long.
Who would like ai planes to instead of eny disabling planes?
HiTech
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: -gg- on October 23, 2026, 11:29:22 AM
Who would like ai planes to instead of eny disabling planes?
HiTech
Personally Id rather not introduce AI planes into the Main Arena unless it was some long range mission to a strat type of thing.
One of the best things of this game is knowing your going up against real players. Real players can be forced into mistakes or take risks where AI is pretty much perfect. Sure you can turn down "how perfect", but can they become predictable then?
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: -gg- on October 23, 2026, 11:47:30 AM
I like the idea of AI planes defending bases and strat the more I think about it.
Morning milkrunners sweeping undefended bases is not very realistic. Field guns are 90% "AI" and not real players.
If it can even the numbers, I prefer that to penalizing players with ENY
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: -gg- on October 23, 2026, 11:50:18 AM
Like bombers can have drones, instead of ENY maybe let fighters have fighting drones in certain situations.
but defending bases with ai planes seems like it could be good.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: oTRALFZo on October 23, 2026, 11:52:59 AM
Who would like ai planes to instead of eny disabling planes?
HiTech
Auto ack can be pretty much considered AI. Personally, I would love to see AI implemented in the game. Countries with the lower #s can have AI send missions to strats to give them at least a chance to fight back. Numbers are too low at the present. I think it would be a great addition.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: CptTrips on October 23, 2026, 11:56:38 AM
I like the idea of AI planes defending bases and strat the more I think about it.
Morning milkrunners sweeping undefended bases is not very realistic. Field guns are 90% "AI" and not real players.
If it can even the numbers, I prefer that to penalizing players with ENY
You could think of it as flying field ack. I would add a feature to the AI definition where you can define a home point for each so that they will disengage and rtb beyond a certain distance. That would keep them from wandering all over the map. Keep them as local defense tied to their home field.
I also think occasional AI bomber streams would be a good feature. Everyone always had fun with the AI bombers in Nef's Fortress Europe. You can't really tell a human bomber from an AI bomber when you are just flying in formation. It also provides focal point for action. Enemy come up to knock them down, friendlies up to try protect them. It suddenly gives everyone an excuse to show up in the same place at the same time and who knows were it goes from there. It becomes a rolling dogfight all the way to the target. Everyone knows where the action is going to be.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: -gg- on October 23, 2026, 11:59:34 AM
You could think of it as flying field ack. I would add a feature to the AI definition where you can define a home point for each so that they will disengage and rtb beyond a certain distance. That would keep them from wandering all over the map. Keep them as local defense tied to the field.
I also think occasional AI bomber streams would be a good feature. Everyone always had fun with the AI bombers in Nef's Fortress Europe. You can't really tell a human bomber from and AI bomber when you are just flying in formation. It also provides focal point for action. Enemy come up to knock them down, friendlies up to try protect them. It suddenly gives everyone an excuse to show up in the same place at the same time and who knows were it goes from there. It becomes a rolling dogfight all the way to the target. Everyone knows where the action is going to be.
I like both ideas.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 23, 2026, 12:32:02 PM
AI planes at different live player count thresholds. There are certain times when it wouldn’t be necessary.
Done.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Banshee7 on October 23, 2026, 12:32:49 PM
Auto ack can be pretty much considered AI. Personally, I would love to see AI implemented in the game. Countries with the lower #s can have AI send missions to strats to give them at least a chance to fight back. Numbers are too low at the present. I think it would be a great addition.
I like that idea too.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: -gg- on October 23, 2026, 12:39:34 PM
And when the numbers are low it wouldn't take many AI planes - probably only a few to even numbers at those times.
Like a solo plane here and there - Jugs going after radar at a base, Spits upping to defend a base. I think it could be really cool.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Wiley on October 23, 2026, 12:43:33 PM
You could think of it as flying field ack. I would add a feature to the AI definition where you can define a home point for each so that they will disengage and rtb beyond a certain distance. That would keep them from wandering all over the map. Keep them as local defense tied to their home field.
I also think occasional AI bomber streams would be a good feature. Everyone always had fun with the AI bombers in Nef's Fortress Europe. You can't really tell a human bomber from an AI bomber when you are just flying in formation. It also provides focal point for action. Enemy come up to knock them down, friendlies up to try protect them. It suddenly gives everyone an excuse to show up in the same place at the same time and who knows were it goes from there. It becomes a rolling dogfight all the way to the target. Everyone knows where the action is going to be.
...Or alternately, people watch them fly over and don't want to climb for that long, and it winds up with the entire arena getting used to just having strats down most of the time. ;)
Not sure what AI would bring to the MA. The morning crew would likely have some kind of medical event over AI base defenders. Part of me would kind of like to see it. Depending how it was limited, I wonder how easy it would be to cheese.
I personally have never thought ENY does much beneficial. People logging because of it is not good for the game, we need every player we can get. There is little material difference between getting ganged by 10 eny 15 planes with alt for example and getting ganged by 10 eny 5 planes with alt. They're all still faster, and you still can't turn into them without getting in over your head. The only thing different is the defender can run. So up to defend, get overwhelmed, have a chance to run away maybe with ENY. Not seeing much gameplay there.
As for the dar, it's taking some getting used to. I've always thought a heat map like Trips suggested a bit up thread would be a good representation. I'm having trouble untraining my brain to not look directly at the spot on the map showing a bandit. That might get better with time but at the moment I still find it jarring.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: -gg- on October 23, 2026, 12:50:53 PM
...Or alternately, people watch them fly over and don't want to climb for that long, and it winds up with the entire arena getting used to just having strats down most of the time. ;)
Not sure what AI would bring to the MA. The morning crew would likely have some kind of medical event over AI base defenders. Part of me would kind of like to see it. Depending how it was limited, I wonder how easy it would be to cheese.
I personally have never thought ENY does much beneficial. People logging because of it is not good for the game, we need every player we can get. There is little material difference between getting ganged by 10 eny 15 planes with alt for example and getting ganged by 10 eny 5 planes with alt. They're all still faster, and you still can't turn into them without getting in over your head. The only thing different is the defender can run. So up to defend, get overwhelmed, have a chance to run away maybe with ENY. Not seeing much gameplay there.
As for the dar, it's taking some getting used to. I've always thought a heat map like Trips suggested a bit up thread would be a good representation. I'm having trouble untraining my brain to not look directly at the spot on the map showing a bandit. That might get better with time but at the moment I still find it jarring.
Wiley.
Yes - heat map seems like a great idea. When people see a plane icon, the brain will always think of it as an exact location. I love the heatmap idea.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: oTRALFZo on October 23, 2026, 12:53:14 PM
...Or alternately, people watch them fly over and don't want to climb for that long, and it winds up with the entire arena getting used to just having strats down most of the time. ;)
Not sure what AI would bring to the MA. The morning crew would likely have some kind of medical event over AI base defenders. Part of me would kind of like to see it. Depending how it was limited, I wonder how easy it would be to cheese.
I personally have never thought ENY does much beneficial. People logging because of it is not good for the game, we need every player we can get. There is little material difference between getting ganged by 10 eny 15 planes with alt for example and getting ganged by 10 eny 5 planes with alt. They're all still faster, and you still can't turn into them without getting in over your head. The only thing different is the defender can run. So up to defend, get overwhelmed, have a chance to run away maybe with ENY. Not seeing much gameplay there.
As for the dar, it's taking some getting used to. I've always thought a heat map like Trips suggested a bit up thread would be a good representation. I'm having trouble untraining my brain to not look directly at the spot on the map showing a bandit. That might get better with time but at the moment I still find it jarring.
Wiley.
Imagine a world where there is no ENY and numbers are balanced by AI. :t
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: CptTrips on October 23, 2026, 12:55:54 PM
...Or alternately, people watch them fly over and don't want to climb for that long,
Well, I would put them at about 12k. If you won't climb to 12k to stop the bombers from hitting your strat, then you deserve to lose it. Probably takes less time that flying around trying to find a fight.
Maybe they are only spawned for the lowest side against the highest side instead of ENY. Good way to cause the high pop side an extra wrinkle and divert some of their numbers while providing some action for everyone and a little leverage to help the low side. A way to balance by providing more action instead of taking away planes people like to fly. Adding, instead of subtracting.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Randy1 on October 23, 2026, 01:15:54 PM
Who would like ai planes to instead of eny disabling planes?
HiTech
No ai planes please. We might piss on each other's boots but we know each other from AH. Just look at the response when one of players passes away or has serious medical issues. Me and LilMak are having a disagreement, but I know he is a good man from AH, and really good in that 47.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: CptTrips on October 23, 2026, 01:24:09 PM
.I'm having trouble untraining my brain to not look directly at the spot on the map showing a bandit. That might get better with time but at the moment I still find it jarring.
At the very least fading the opacity of the dot over the update period would help remind you that is a stale plot.
It it is fully bright, you know that plot is fresh and he has to be near there. If it's only 20% opacity, you know it stale and only a rough approximation.
But that could be for manually marked enemies and still use a heat-map for general plotting.
Watch Battle of Britain again. Top Hat didn't hand out GPS coords. It gave them a general area to head to until they took over with visual contact.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 23, 2026, 01:36:43 PM
Absolutely no AI single pilot planes.
These obsessions are getting out of hand. It's the easing of what we never wanted into a full blown AI game like other sims. Every convo is AI AI AI, DAR DAR DAR ENY ENY ENY,...it's like heroin to some.
We have constant lobbying and they never shut up until they get their foot stomping way by a very few, then they want 10x more of it. One doesn't even play nor suffer the consequences of bad ideas for MMP. Maybe AI can pour my coffee too. lol
How about just concentrating on getting numbers up which solves many issues. None of these draw new players. These are for existing players. And I can safely bet throw AI planes into MA and watch a good amount left of a small population leave. we are not here for AI, that's in a game the AI obsessed enjoys. It's like a drug pusher.
All the bells and whistles mean anything to an empty arena. it's just a bandaid.
I'll take ENY over AI every single day of the week.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 23, 2026, 01:47:27 PM
At the very least fading the opacity of the dot over the update period would help remind you that is a stale plot.
It it is fully bright, you know that plot is fresh and he has to be near there. If it's only 20% opacity, you know it stale and only a rough approximation.
But that could be for manually marked enemies and still use a heat-map for general plotting.
Watch Battle of Britain again. Top Hat didn't hand out GPS coords. It gave them a general area to head to until they took over with visual contact.
I like the declining opacity idea.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 23, 2026, 01:52:32 PM
Run a poll in game, not with former players obsessed with AI toilet paper dispensers. Ya just feeding the decline IMO. No matter the subject its AI AI AI,
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 23, 2026, 02:02:17 PM
If we get AI piloted planes I might as well go to IL-2, there's nothing special here anymore. I, and prolly a others, are looking past older graphics to be in MMP. take away true MMP and why am I here?
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: fudgums on October 23, 2026, 02:25:32 PM
Ai base supply runners :aok
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: AKIron on October 23, 2026, 02:38:17 PM
Create AI with personalities. Let them talk on 200. Give 'em each unique handles.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: AKIron on October 23, 2026, 02:44:34 PM
Might be interesting to watch them taunt each other.
Me too. It'd be relatively easy to do too I expect.
AI could replace about 90% of 200 pretty easily. Variations on "You killed me in a way I don't like, and you should feel bad." it's good at stuff like that.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: AKIron on October 23, 2026, 03:07:02 PM
Of course you gotta have at least one pirate talking AI.
Auto ack can be pretty much considered AI. Personally, I would love to see AI implemented in the game. Countries with the lower #s can have AI send missions to strats to give them at least a chance to fight back. Numbers are too low at the present. I think it would be a great addition.
YOu just gave me a thought, unbalnce gives some ai wingmen
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: -gg- on October 23, 2026, 03:28:04 PM
Like bombers can have drones, instead of ENY maybe let fighters have fighting drones in certain situations.
but defending bases with ai planes seems like it could be good.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: -gg- on October 23, 2026, 03:32:00 PM
For me, I don't want a wingman or any help. I like to have the chips fall where they may. I get hit with ENY almost every time I play and I'm sick of it.
I'm on the side with a few extra players and I seek to to defend or get a 1v1 and I'm forced to fly a crap plane against elite players in better planes.
So I'd love the idea of Ai balancing the numbers. Defending bases would be the most logical thing to have them do - when one country is steamrolling bases.
I just don't think it's fair to have players penalized by ENY
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Lazerr on October 23, 2026, 03:44:52 PM
Lol at you guys all about p2p fighting.
That doesnt really work in the off hours when... well... there are no players.
I think players are a key ingredient to a pure P2P game..
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Rubicon on October 23, 2026, 05:24:24 PM
There are so many elements and so many discussions. AI is a good tool for productivity but I play this for the PvP element so I would not wish to be playing with or against AI planes.
On the note of the number of players. If you have a birthday party and you invite 60 friends you do not hire a staduim meant for 60,000 people. You hire a room within that stadium that is suitable for your gathering.
AH is a massive map to play on. It feels empty. World of Warships, and other such games, have only 24 in the fight and there is room enough but you also have to fight. I know this is a slightly different beast but maybe Claude could help work out a system where the fights can be compressed and encouraged. I am not going to beat the dead horse of 2 sides or new maps etc. however I wonder if there might be a way to make the effective room size match the party.
e.g. (and this is just spitballing so please no attacks) a system where rear bases are locked out and only become active once the enemy breaches a perimeter - say 2 grids.
I am off to play golf now and will be back later. Map had 60 ish players in it but the only thing on offer was fighting invisible GVs or BBs offshore. When I come back there will be a tipping point where enough players will be present and fights begin to happen.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: CptTrips on October 23, 2026, 05:53:09 PM
e.g. (and this is just spitballing so please no attacks) a system where rear bases are locked out and only become active once the enemy breaches a perimeter - say 2 grids.
Would they get re-disabled if the tide turns? How would that interact with the % fields owned win-the-war logic? I'm not saying that couldn't work, but it might be simpler to just have some smaller maps.
I used to play a lot of Battlefield. They had a game mode called Operations. It had a rolling front line that only enabled spawns a short distance either side of the current frontline. Similar to what you are suggesting. As that section was won, the front line shifted across the map and only spawn points on either side for the front was enabled. at any phase there spawns were limited to those just on either side of the frontline. The game was won when one side pushed all the way and captured the final sector at one end of the map or the other. Envision a scrimmage line in American Football.
That worked well with two sides, I can't really envision how it works with 3 sides.
I think it would be simpler to just have a selection of smaller maps with fields 10mi apart. It would require some maps to be made, but it be simpler wouldn't require messing with the win the war logic. And a lot simpler to roll back if it doesn't work. The small maps could simply be removed from rotation and code wouldn't have to change.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 23, 2026, 05:54:19 PM
The gateway drug effect.
All that glitters is not gold.
I can get AI in any game, mmp not so much. I can get that and newer graphics in any midern sim. There won’t be anything special left. Now you are competing with the others, graphucs wins.
<runs>.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 23, 2026, 05:58:34 PM
You haven’t played in 15 yrs. You have no pulse of the MA. You’re like a Tupperware salesman. Maybe we don’t like what you like. Why we’re here and you’re not.
<shrug>
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Lazerr on October 23, 2026, 07:48:55 PM
There are so many elements and so many discussions. AI is a good tool for productivity but I play this for the PvP element so I would not wish to be playing with or against AI planes.
On the note of the number of players. If you have a birthday party and you invite 60 friends you do not hire a staduim meant for 60,000 people. You hire a room within that stadium that is suitable for your gathering.
AH is a massive map to play on. It feels empty. World of Warships, and other such games, have only 24 in the fight and there is room enough but you also have to fight. I know this is a slightly different beast but maybe Claude could help work out a system where the fights can be compressed and encouraged. I am not going to beat the dead horse of 2 sides or new maps etc. however I wonder if there might be a way to make the effective room size match the party.
e.g. (and this is just spitballing so please no attacks) a system where rear bases are locked out and only become active once the enemy breaches a perimeter - say 2 grids.
I am off to play golf now and will be back later. Map had 60 ish players in it but the only thing on offer was fighting invisible GVs or BBs offshore. When I come back there will be a tipping point where enough players will be present and fights begin to happen.
What percentage of your engagements are going to be vs AI? What percentage of your engagements are going to be against real people engaging the AI?
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: -gg- on October 23, 2026, 08:09:10 PM
If you fly close to the AI planes you'll see that they have skeletons flying them. Lol. That'd be funny
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: AKIron on October 23, 2026, 09:02:35 PM
That's where he makes them. (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/9em9kb6x5u3226az4cw4j/Chrome-Eyed-Mustang-Over-WWII-Countryside.png?rlkey=692ahye1q97quot9aib6c2wiy&st=8pex800i&raw=1)
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: AKIron on October 23, 2026, 09:29:18 PM
My son-in-law can do pretty good Arnold impressions if that cybernetic pilot needs a voice. AI can probably do it perfectly.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 23, 2026, 10:35:51 PM
That's where he makes them. (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/9em9kb6x5u3226az4cw4j/Chrome-Eyed-Mustang-Over-WWII-Countryside.png?rlkey=692ahye1q97quot9aib6c2wiy&st=8pex800i&raw=1)
Your picture and Gina’s skeletons reminded me of Destro from G.I. Joe!
Can we get the licensing to have him in a plane? :airplane:
(https://i.imgur.com/3QfMqE9l.jpg)
Personally for me, I don’t think it would be a ghost pilot. Since the HTC Corporation now has an army of grunt coders at its disposal, it would probably not waste time and resources building costly humanoid figures. Nano Bots of all sizes down to the quantum realm are our imminent future.
(https://i.imgur.com/HkPdxgBl.jpg)
Does that mean AI pilots will make High Tech Creations the new Stark Industries? :uhoh
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: -gg- on October 23, 2026, 10:44:54 PM
You know it would be really cool would be if AI could analyze the flight characteristics of past pilots. Like the best in the game and then duplicate them and have them be a i virtual pilots of the same model pilot. But people who have passed away or just the greatest that flew the game. That would be interesting. I know it couldn't do that unless you purposely had fed it films or data from these pilots, but that's just something that popped into my head.
You could fly against the best that ever flew the game. That would be interesting.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: CptTrips on October 23, 2026, 10:46:11 PM
You know it would be really cool would be if AI could analyze the flight characteristics of past pilots. Like the best in the game and then duplicate them and have them be a i virtual pilots of the same model pilot. But people who have passed away or just the greatest that flew the game. That would be interesting. I know it couldn't do that unless you purposely had fed it films or data from these pilots, but that's just something that popped into my head.
You could fly against the best that ever flew the game. That would be interesting.
I upload videos of my flying all the time and it critiques it. You should give it a shot. It’s pretty humbling and also extremely helpful. :joystick:
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: -gg- on October 23, 2026, 11:21:45 PM
AI could be made to analyze the actual data from the films probably. Like every input that was made exact speeds and settings of everything. It could really probably duplicate any pilot if it had enough data. Well maybe not duplicate but give a damn good simulation.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: save on October 24, 2026, 06:21:00 AM
I wish for the microphone is on, so we can learn new 'words' when shot down. Coming from a squad with a host of different native languages, I learned a lot :D
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 24, 2026, 10:09:27 AM
Aside from going into full body meltdown opening this thread. AI bathed me this morning, I use the aussie voice,
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on October 24, 2026, 12:13:27 PM
Who would like ai planes to instead of eny disabling planes?
HiTech
I’d prefer that you answer simple questions and give clarity rather than change the subject.
The only thing I pay you for is to play with/and against human players. If I want to play against a machine, I’ll go buy and old Atari 2600. I don’t need you or AH for that. While AI might be cool for some additions for offshoot scenarios and random events, it doesn’t address the elephant in the room. Which is you don’t appear to do anything to recruit or retain players. Given the current numbers, your primary objective should be just that. One of the reasons the radar (or comms or spaghetti or whatever made up word you want to call it today) makes me so upset is that you actually ran players off with it. You could spend some time actually fixing it so it’s not so confusing but we get a timer instead. Presumably so you can play with Claude. If you fixed it properly, it’s entirely possible that a large group of players might return AND you wouldn’t upset the clipboard addicts so much.
instead we get crew chief?!? :headscratch: AI ENY?!? :headscratch: More features no one asked for and doesn’t fix the actual problem (lack of players). All I see is another way for players to game the game. While I understand the game involves many aspects, you seem intent on making the game harder for defense air combat with every new feature. “Crew chief. Do an Immelmann while I man the guns.” Or “Crew chief. Dive to 413mph and do a 90 degree turn to the right while I waste this guy on my six.” Or “Crew chief. Do all the work in my name while I eat ice cream and watch.” Or “Everyone sit in the over for 20 minutes so we have a AI armada when we launch.” Someone needs to smack you up side the head and remind you that this game is a direct descendant of Air Warrior. Guess that has to be me. We need players!
Still…several pages since I asked specific questions and…nothing.
Will there be radar (or whatever made up word you want to call it today) parity between GVs and planes? Yes or No?
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 24, 2026, 01:01:27 PM
A lot of that post is disingenuous and a bunch of whining.
Go touch some grass.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: JimmyD3 on October 24, 2026, 01:42:26 PM
I’d prefer that you answer simple questions and give clarity rather than change the subject.
The only thing I pay you for is to play with/and against human players. If I want to play against a machine, I’ll go buy and old Atari 2600. I don’t need you or AH for that. While AI might be cool for some additions for offshoot scenarios and random events, it doesn’t address the elephant in the room. Which is you don’t appear to do anything to recruit or retain players. Given the current numbers, your primary objective should be just that. One of the reasons the radar (or comms or spaghetti or whatever made up word you want to call it today) makes me so upset is that you actually ran players off with it. You could spend some time actually fixing it so it’s not so confusing but we get a timer instead. Presumably so you can play with Claude. If you fixed it properly, it’s entirely possible that a large group of players might return AND you wouldn’t upset the clipboard addicts so much.
instead we get crew chief?!? :headscratch: AI ENY?!? :headscratch: More features no one asked for and doesn’t fix the actual problem (lack of players). All I see is another way for players to game the game. While I understand the game involves many aspects, you seem intent on making the game harder for defense air combat with every new feature. “Crew chief. Do an Immelmann while I man the guns.” Or “Crew chief. Dive to 413mph and do a 90 degree turn to the right while I waste this guy on my six.” Or “Crew chief. Do all the work in my name while I eat ice cream and watch.” Or “Everyone sit in the over for 20 minutes so we have a AI armada when we launch.” Someone needs to smack you up side the head and remind you that this game is a direct descendant of Air Warrior. Guess that has to be me. We need players!
Still…several pages since I asked specific questions and…nothing.
Will there be radar (or whatever made up word you want to call it today) parity between GVs and planes? Yes or No?
Lilmak I love you brother but, your taking to far to fast. Take some baby steps, take 1 issue at a time. Your acting like the co-worker that was right about 1 little issue and now is trying to tell everybody what to do. :rock
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 24, 2026, 04:10:22 PM
Not everything is topping the list of things that should really be done right now, yesterday.
No matter the thread, it always evolves into making earth spin backwards. 1 lil give and here comes the Christmas list.
Let thing evolve as they should.
I’d like to see ducks put in a row so we can MAYBE move on to graphics, we need to appease noobs too. Not get bogged down on dead end forever debates. Let the guy do his thing.
Take a breath. We went for no updates to pretty much weekly updates.
An old saying in my biz, should apply to all biz “Do you want it fast or right, your choice”.
It’s not a bad idea to go outside and cleanse the brain.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 24, 2026, 04:11:24 PM
.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: fudgums on October 24, 2026, 05:22:14 PM
I’d prefer that you answer simple questions and give clarity rather than change the subject.
The only thing I pay you for is to play with/and against human players. If I want to play against a machine, I’ll go buy and old Atari 2600. I don’t need you or AH for that. While AI might be cool for some additions for offshoot scenarios and random events, it doesn’t address the elephant in the room. Which is you don’t appear to do anything to recruit or retain players. Given the current numbers, your primary objective should be just that. One of the reasons the radar (or comms or spaghetti or whatever made up word you want to call it today) makes me so upset is that you actually ran players off with it. You could spend some time actually fixing it so it’s not so confusing but we get a timer instead. Presumably so you can play with Claude. If you fixed it properly, it’s entirely possible that a large group of players might return AND you wouldn’t upset the clipboard addicts so much.
instead we get crew chief?!? :headscratch: AI ENY?!? :headscratch: More features no one asked for and doesn’t fix the actual problem (lack of players). All I see is another way for players to game the game. While I understand the game involves many aspects, you seem intent on making the game harder for defense air combat with every new feature. “Crew chief. Do an Immelmann while I man the guns.” Or “Crew chief. Dive to 413mph and do a 90 degree turn to the right while I waste this guy on my six.” Or “Crew chief. Do all the work in my name while I eat ice cream and watch.” Or “Everyone sit in the over for 20 minutes so we have a AI armada when we launch.” Someone needs to smack you up side the head and remind you that this game is a direct descendant of Air Warrior. Guess that has to be me. We need players!
Still…several pages since I asked specific questions and…nothing.
Will there be radar (or whatever made up word you want to call it today) parity between GVs and planes? Yes or No?
What an ungrateful response.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hazmatt on October 24, 2026, 05:38:02 PM
Lilmak I love you brother but, your taking to far to fast. Take some baby steps, take 1 issue at a time. Your acting like the co-worker that was right about 1 little issue and now is trying to tell everybody what to do. :rock
I enjoy you too brother. But, I’ve spent several years asking for radar (or whatever I’m supposed to call it now) to be addressed. Including testing settings where you and I went to a private arena because Dale was in pseudo-retirement and couldn’t be bothered. Now we’re 14 pages into a AWACS thread (that I didn’t even start) where I’ve asked specific questions that would take maybe 60 seconds for any normal human to answer honestly and I get deflection and gaslighting. I’m not a co-worker. I’m a customer. One who actually loves the product and is upset that the latest version of the product seems to be drifting from what I’m paying for.
I have one issue. At this point I’m a joke because of it. I’ve asked basically two very specific questions directly of HT in this thread. He’s ignored or deflected both of them. Aside from that. I’ve told him we can have a conversation in person. Crickets. I’ve told him he can PM or email me in confidence. Nada. I’ve literally told him what would get me to shut up about the whole issue within this very thread. Nothing. He’s basically ignored me the whole time. But the second Gina brings up ENY, he’s throwing out AI as a solution like its full sized candy bars on Halloween.
Basically I feel like I ate in my favorite restaurant. This time the food marginal and the service has simply been atrocious. Meanwhile, the customers next to me are telling me I ordered the wrong dish and their service was just fine. Cool for you bro. The dish I ordered used to be exquisite and the service used to be fantastic.
Exactly what am I taking too far when all I want is direct answers to simple questions? How am I going too fast when I’ve been asking similar questions for years and being ignored?
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 24, 2026, 06:28:41 PM
Sometimes you get the understudy not the House chef.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: atlau on October 24, 2026, 06:40:27 PM
Not gonna read 14 pages.
But I'm a No on AI in MA in combat planes. Maybe for resupply or even fleet guns. Would have to be sufficiently nerfed tho so they aren't God level.
AI missions would perhaps have a place in the Axis vs Allied arena but I doubt that would bring in any players.
Better would be some kind of system that shrinks the playable area of a map - perhaps outside fields become uncapturable? (combined with better map design) to funnel fights with low numbers. The large maps are often cool but too large for the numbers of players.
On that note id recommend creating a half dozen AI training missions (last 5 minutes or so) to teach the basics.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Meatwad on October 24, 2026, 06:49:01 PM
As I said LilMak it isn't supposed to be radar. You keep trying to compare it to radar in reality it is meant to represent all systems of observing aircraft and radio transmitions.
HiTech
If it can map enemy aircraft all over the map, then the same should apply to enemy gv's
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 24, 2026, 07:05:57 PM
LOL. What happened to the customer is always right? :bolt:
Not when the customer should be escorted out of the establishment because they are acting like a child. Some behavior is embarrassing.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hitech on October 26, 2026, 10:10:10 AM
LilMak,
The reason I have not answered your GV question is simple: I have not decided yet.
I see the argument. If the map represents all observation and reports, then GVs being seen should be reported the same way planes are. I also see the other side: at low numbers, GV icons could make it very hard to sneak a base, and that is a big part of the game for a lot of players.
I learned long ago to give the customer what they want, not what they ask for. What you are asking for is GV radar parity. What I think you want is fights where one sighting doesn't bring the whole country down on you before you get a shot off. Those are not always the same fix, and I want to get the right one.
That is why the radar update time changed. Going from 5 seconds to 45 and now 20 was aimed directly at that problem: giving a fight time to happen before everyone in the area converges on it. It is a step, not the last one, and I am still watching how it plays.
As for Crew Chief, the only reason it exists is to get new customers. The biggest hurdle for a new player is simply getting into the air and finding a fight. That is exactly the problem you say I am not working on.
Put yourself in a new player's position. They open the map, and if there is no information on it, they have no idea where to go. They take off, fly for ten minutes, find nothing, and log off, and most of them never come back. You and I know to read the darbar, watch the bases and guess where the fight will be. A new player doesn't know any of that. Whatever we do with radar, the map has to keep giving a new player a reason to point the nose somewhere. That is the balance I am trying to find: enough on the map that a new player can find a fight, but not so much that a veteran can't get a fair one.
When I decide on the GV question, I will post it here.
HiTech
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 26, 2026, 10:27:29 AM
Solid answer this is how compromise works!
I still prefer the five seconds but I can get used to whatever.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 26, 2026, 10:34:38 AM
Not everyone agrees with these changes, even in this thread. No one is popping a bottle of champaign. But they do say it looks like a laggy map.
If we don’t take care of new players we are not taking care of our future.
Many ideas on bbs are for vets and excludes new players, no thought of them at all. If we’re going to reman a superior clique and not be inclusive to new players our days are numbered.
I think the GV point us just to get rid of plane dar. I don’t think its a genuine concern.
All IMO
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Spikes on October 26, 2026, 11:11:46 AM
That is why the radar update time changed. Going from 5 seconds to 45 and now 20 was aimed directly at that problem: giving a fight time to happen before everyone in the area converges on it. It is a step, not the last one, and I am still watching how it plays.
Is it possible to separate tower radar from 'cockpit radar' (for lack of a better term)? Using an IF-THEN for simplicity but something like:
IF enemy is within tower radar range AND tower radar is up, THEN update rate = 5; ELSE update rate = 20.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 26, 2026, 11:15:59 AM
Is it possible to separate tower radar from 'cockpit radar' (for lack of a better term)? Using an IF-THEN for simplicity but something like:
IF enemy is within tower radar range AND tower radar is up, THEN update rate = 5; ELSE update rate = 20.
Hey now we are using our noodle good idea!
I also don’t think the delta between people in here and the people who play the game as that much different. It was certainly the case back in the big numbers, but that’s just not now. You can count the number of people that play every day and the same names.
My guess is about 25% of the people who play regularly are in here. And I’m not factoring in those that come for FSO or just event info. I don’t have the actual math, but from what I can gather, this feels more correct.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hitech on October 26, 2026, 11:34:52 AM
Is it possible to separate tower radar from 'cockpit radar' (for lack of a better term)? Using an IF-THEN for simplicity but something like:
IF enemy is within tower radar range AND tower radar is up, THEN update rate = 5; ELSE update rate = 20.
The answer is of course yes. But have to change a little data sending to separate the 2 states. But I am trying to think of another way to have players be able to simply report the players they see, possibly by key press and anything in view gets sent. This then could also include vehicles.
HiTech
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: CptTrips on October 26, 2026, 11:59:51 AM
But I am trying to think of another way to have players be able to simply report the players they see, possibly by key press and anything in view gets sent. This then could also include vehicles.
I would have assumed it would just work like the Check-six but with a different key that only iterates over the enemy planes in view. It is already a player learned behavior.
Or maybe Check-Six becomes a more generic "Alert" function. If you stop on a friendly it sends check-six, if you stop on a enemy in the view it marks them on the map.
$0.02.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Spikes on October 26, 2026, 12:37:49 PM
The answer is of course yes. But have to change a little data sending to separate the 2 states. But I am trying to think of another way to have players be able to simply report the players they see, possibly by key press and anything in view gets sent. This then could also include vehicles.
HiTech
I agree with a Check 6 style system. Players would need to tag the planes they see and that tag would have some sort of lifespan, say 30-60 seconds. Enemy can be tagged again, but at least it requires some effort from the player.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on October 26, 2026, 12:43:44 PM
The reason I have not answered your GV question is simple: I have not decided yet.
I see the argument. If the map represents all observation and reports, then GVs being seen should be reported the same way planes are. I also see the other side: at low numbers, GV icons could make it very hard to sneak a base, and that is a big part of the game for a lot of players.
I learned long ago to give the customer what they want, not what they ask for. What you are asking for is GV radar parity. What I think you want is fights where one sighting doesn't bring the whole country down on you before you get a shot off. Those are not always the same fix, and I want to get the right one.
That is why the radar update time changed. Going from 5 seconds to 45 and now 20 was aimed directly at that problem: giving a fight time to happen before everyone in the area converges on it. It is a step, not the last one, and I am still watching how it plays.
As for Crew Chief, the only reason it exists is to get new customers. The biggest hurdle for a new player is simply getting into the air and finding a fight. That is exactly the problem you say I am not working on.
Put yourself in a new player's position. They open the map, and if there is no information on it, they have no idea where to go. They take off, fly for ten minutes, find nothing, and log off, and most of them never come back. You and I know to read the darbar, watch the bases and guess where the fight will be. A new player doesn't know any of that. Whatever we do with radar, the map has to keep giving a new player a reason to point the nose somewhere. That is the balance I am trying to find: enough on the map that a new player can find a fight, but not so much that a veteran can't get a fair one.
When I decide on the GV question, I will post it here.
HiTech
Thank you for the clarity.
For the record. I don’t think GVs should be on the clipboard. I honestly think that it’s a terrible idea because carpet bombing them would become the order of the day. The reason I was so ridiculous about it is because I also don’t think GVs should be giving away aircraft locations on the clipboard either. And for the same reasons.
The suggestion that the towers have a separate refresh was something that I hit on around page 7 or 8 and part of what I was trying to discover when Kanai and I attempted testing. I think it’s a good one.
I also think the “warmer” warning thing seems like a good alternative idea too (eventually). Kind of like a localized darbar. Something like a radar sweep (pie slice) around a friendly aircraft icon that shows the direction and severity of contacts in 45 degree arcs without actually showing exactly what the pilot is seeing as an icon. So, if there is a contact within icon range that pie slice fills in. If they’re surrounded it would be completely red pie. Since it’s not giving all the information away (heading, type) it could be a nearly instant refresh.
Thank you for instituting the timer. I haven’t had the chance to play since it changed from 45 to 20 but that 45 seconds was a fantastic night for me getting murdered but still able to get a lick or two in with my head on a swivel.
Lunch invite still holds up if you’re interested.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on October 26, 2026, 01:07:32 PM
Yes I enjoy this too. Not everything needs changing.
As a compromise, maybe have one vehicle sitting at a base flashing it distinguishable from their entire ground force moving in on the field? Somehow tied to the squares to show if there's one or 50 of them there? I've always thought tracks and dust rising when they move would be neat too, but that could get really hard on frame rate quickly.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: -gg- on October 26, 2026, 04:23:15 PM
What would be cool for GV "dar"
If a player spots a GV, he can press a key and report the position... but it might not be accurate. Then others could see where he marked it, even if it's not totally accurate. Maybe the pilot spotted a GV under a tree and then looses sight, but still reports the area - then that area is highlighted for a period of time with a color-fading marker.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hazmatt on October 26, 2026, 04:31:41 PM
If a player spots a GV, he can press a key and report the position... but it might not be accurate. Then others could see where he marked it, even if it's not totally accurate. Maybe the pilot spotted a GV under a tree and then looses sight, but still reports the area - then that area is highlighted for a period of time with a color-fading marker.
This is very close to the way it works in world war II online and it works pretty well.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: CAV on October 26, 2026, 04:32:15 PM
Quote
But I am trying to think of another way to have players be able to simply report the players they see, possibly by key press and anything in view gets sent. This then could also include vehicles.
In hell let Loose, Players can pop Up a warning Triangle on an object they are looking at....
That and along with in-game Vox they can warn other players of danger around them.
Tank on my Ping...
Enemy infantry, my ping location, Etc, etc...
It shows up on the map and in game But only last A Short amount of time.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: RELIC on October 26, 2026, 06:09:52 PM
If you up a storch and get within a certain distance the GV icon will display and you can mark it with smoke?
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: ~ZoSo~ on October 26, 2026, 08:43:02 PM
This is only partially true. If the GV is under trees and engine off it will not appear, even for a Storch
A storch has the ability to have longer, more varied view angles giving it a better chance of discovery with or without engine on. However there are 3 players that I know of that can find a GV instantly no matter where you are hidden.
Since the advent of the LilMak radar system and enhanced ammo bunkers., GVs are much more vulnerable. It is making it much more difficult to be aggressive in attacking, and more rewarding to just wait on an attack for easier kills..
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on November 04, 2026, 12:45:15 PM
A storch has the ability to have longer, more varied view angles giving it a better chance of discovery with or without engine on. However there are 3 players that I know of that can find a GV instantly no matter where you are hidden.
Since the advent of the LilMak radar system and enhanced ammo bunkers., GVs are much more vulnerable. It is making it much more difficult to be aggressive in attacking, and more rewarding to just wait on an attack for easier kills..
For the record. What I asked for and what we currently have are not the same thing. Naming it after me seems a bit of a stretch. And, while hardening the ammo bunkers may have hurt a bit (never asked for that personally), it seems disingenuous to imply that a 20 second radar delay has had any appreciable effect on the ground game since they were and still are not on radar.
Now. I am of the opinion that the storch should have icons on a tank (even under trees) within 500ft. And, while I’m not fully against it, I’m also not so sure it should paint that tank on radar. Rather it should use smoke to mark it. Basically making the spotter plane be viable again.
What I would truly like to see is subtle animation that shows the shockwave or dust cloud show up for a second when a round is fired from a tank. Which might negate the need for radar or a special icon. Or maybe tank tracks that fade like bomb craters? The latter might be a bridge too far.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hitech on November 04, 2026, 01:06:03 PM
Here is what I am planning to do with radar. This is the plan, not a finished feature, so details may change as we test it.
The map will show enemy contacts 2 different ways.
Radar contacts A plane within range of your side's radar and above radar height shows on the map as it does today. Position updates will be faster, something like every 5 seconds. Between updates the contact fades to about 25%, so you can tell how old the position is.
Seen contacts Being near an enemy will no longer put him on your side's map. Someone on your side has to actually see him. You have seen him if he is within vis range and really in your view, so he does not count if he is off screen, behind your canopy frame, behind terrain or in the sun, or if either of you is inside a cloud. As soon as anyone on your side sees him he shows on your side's map. He stays while anyone keeps seeing him and for a little while after. Seen contacts have their own update rate, 20 seconds by default.
What this means in play Flying under radar no longer shows you just because an enemy is nearby. If nobody spots you, you stay off their map. Flying inside a cloud, the sun and blind spots now hide you from the whole enemy side, not just the one pilot. Keeping your eyes on a contact helps your team.
Plain dots Each arena can choose, for each type of contact, to show full detail or just a plain dot. Full detail is plane type and heading, as now. A dot tells you something is there but not what it is or where it is going. So an arena could show radar contacts as dots and seen contacts in full detail.
Your own side does not change. Friendly planes still show with full detail.
GVs may also be able to show as seen contacts. That would be an arena setting.
HiTech
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on November 04, 2026, 01:14:03 PM
That’s not too shabby!
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Eagler on November 04, 2026, 01:17:25 PM
Is under radar 100ft and under?
Can we get dots in the MA arena?
Sounds good to me :aok
Eagler
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Randy1 on November 04, 2026, 01:23:44 PM
The radar without delay offered GVs and airplanes the ability to project the time of an expected air attack. That is now gone.
With the deforestation of the maps, the distance between hiding places is very large at times. Timing of an approaching fighter or set of bombers is very important to allow time to hide. Harding of the ammo bunkers just makes this worse.
On storchs. Often what is often seen is the enemy icon not the vehicle itself. Same with fighters and bombers searching for GVs.
The number of full-time base defenders is ever increasing since it is the safest, and most point rewarding for those that are points hungry.
Attacking an enemy base takes a lot of time as well as high risk with radar delay, hardened ammo bunkers, short base-town defending spawns, and full time defenders. This hurts the action in the game. If no one attacks, game over.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Banshee7 on November 04, 2026, 01:24:58 PM
Here is what I am planning to do with radar. This is the plan, not a finished feature, so details may change as we test it.
The map will show enemy contacts 2 different ways.
Radar contacts A plane within range of your side's radar and above radar height shows on the map as it does today. Position updates will be faster, something like every 5 seconds. Between updates the contact fades to about 25%, so you can tell how old the position is.
Seen contacts Being near an enemy will no longer put him on your side's map. Someone on your side has to actually see him. You have seen him if he is within vis range and really in your view, so he does not count if he is off screen, behind your canopy frame, behind terrain or in the sun, or if either of you is inside a cloud. As soon as anyone on your side sees him he shows on your side's map. He stays while anyone keeps seeing him and for a little while after. Seen contacts have their own update rate, 20 seconds by default.
What this means in play Flying under radar no longer shows you just because an enemy is nearby. If nobody spots you, you stay off their map. Flying inside a cloud, the sun and blind spots now hide you from the whole enemy side, not just the one pilot. Keeping your eyes on a contact helps your team.
Plain dots Each arena can choose, for each type of contact, to show full detail or just a plain dot. Full detail is plane type and heading, as now. A dot tells you something is there but not what it is or where it is going. So an arena could show radar contacts as dots and seen contacts in full detail.
Your own side does not change. Friendly planes still show with full detail.
GVs may also be able to show as seen contacts. That would be an arena setting.
HiTech
Sounds interesting! I like it!
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Lazerr on November 04, 2026, 01:28:11 PM
So enemy radar blips will now just be dots? If so, good.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on November 04, 2026, 01:50:13 PM
Here is what I am planning to do with radar. This is the plan, not a finished feature, so details may change as we test it.
The map will show enemy contacts 2 different ways.
Seen contacts Being near an enemy will no longer put him on your side's map. Someone on your side has to actually see him. You have seen him if he is within vis range and really in your view, so he does not count if he is off screen, behind your canopy frame, behind terrain or in the sun, or if either of you is inside a cloud. As soon as anyone on your side sees him he shows on your side's map. He stays while anyone keeps seeing him and for a little while after. Seen contacts have their own update rate, 20 seconds by default.
While this seems like a minor improvement over what I’ve been calling AWACS. It also seems like it basically feeds real time radar data to the clipboard of the enemy whenever I’m in view. Which is my entire gripe. It still would vector any aircraft in the vicinity to my exact location and would paint a picture of exactly how whatever engagement I’m in is going. And it would get worse as more enemy aircraft showed up and got “eyes” on me. Basically making me visible to all on the clipboard and propagating the same horde-like nature that high refresh AWACS already does.
Now, if it was delayed (20 seconds) and only “refreshed” when a second enemy got “eyes” on me, that might be alright.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Spikes on November 04, 2026, 02:49:33 PM
While this seems like a minor improvement over what I’ve been calling AWACS. It also seems like it basically feeds real time radar data to the clipboard of the enemy whenever I’m in view. Which is my entire gripe. It still would vector any aircraft in the vicinity to my exact location and would paint a picture of exactly how whatever engagement I’m in is going. And it would get worse as more enemy aircraft showed up and got “eyes” on me. Basically making me visible to all on the clipboard and propagating the same horde-like nature that high refresh AWACS already does.
Now, if it was delayed (20 seconds) and only “refreshed” when a second enemy got “eyes” on me, that might be alright.
It seems to me like a player needs to have actual view on someone for it to paint on the CBM. It eliminates climbing out and having the CBM up and it painting everything that comes within icon range, be it above, behind, or below.
Why not see how it plays out instead of immediately complaining about it before it is even in the game?
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Randy1 on November 04, 2026, 03:32:02 PM
I think many years ago, Hitech described AH as a game based on a simulation. Note sure that is an actual quote or if it was even HiTech.
The point being some parts of the game deviate from the simulation to improve game play. Action is very important which are the roots of game play.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on November 04, 2026, 04:38:20 PM
It seems to me like a player needs to have actual view on someone for it to paint on the CBM. It eliminates climbing out and having the CBM up and it painting everything that comes within icon range, be it above, behind, or below.
Why not see how it plays out instead of immediately complaining about it before it is even in the game?
I am absolutely not complaining. HT is throwing out his ideas and I’m trying to point out why it may not work as intended. HT knows more than anyone that changes can have unintended consequences. I’m just pointing out how I see what he’s proposing going into effect. I don’t like complaining about the radar anymore than the people here like seeing me do so. Taking AWACS away and replacing it with AWACS 2.1 is not going to help with my primary gripe which is being spoon fed to multiple cons who have an additional situational advantage along with a numbers advantage.
The description points out that simply being in icon range does not put you on the clipboard. Great! However, it also appears from the description that “seeing” an enemy puts you on it and any other enemy seeing you puts you on it as well. Based on the description, the only way my airplane is removed from the clipboard is when the enemy doesn’t see me for 20 seconds. When was the last time anyone lost eyes on a contact for 20 seconds in a dogfight? Let me answer that…Only after they were dead. My supposition is that my icon will update on enemy clipboards at a 5 second rate as long as someone is looking at me. Which is basically AWACS unless I can cross 6k of airspace without someone looking in my direction.
I could be misunderstanding what HT is throwing out. But I don’t think so.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hitech on November 04, 2026, 04:46:03 PM
Quote
My supposition is that my icon will update on enemy clipboards at a 5 second rate as long as someone is looking at me. Which is basically AWACS unless I can cross 6k of airspace without someone looking in my direction.
It would be at a longer rate like 20 or more secs.
HiTech
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Eagler on November 04, 2026, 05:13:47 PM
It would be at a longer rate like 20 or more secs.
HiTech
Sounding better and better..
How do you determine when a plane sees another plane..when an icon 1st comes into a players field of vision..or do dots count..
Eagler
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on November 04, 2026, 07:01:16 PM
More is never enough.
Not everyone agrees with these few. There are other human players, some agree, some are angry.
How about this single voice take a breather.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on November 04, 2026, 07:16:24 PM
I enjoy it less and less every day. Doesn’t really motivate me to stay logged in more than a couple sorties. I decided I don’t like the fading at all either.
This could’ve been left alone nobody would’ve cared.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: caldera on November 04, 2026, 07:36:32 PM
I think it should be real time updates of friendlies everywhere and enemy dots only visible in friendly base radar cones, with radar towers damage resistance heavily fortified. Otherwise, darbars should suffice for the rest of the map.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: nrshida on November 05, 2026, 12:15:43 AM
Not everyone agrees with these few. There are other human players, some agree, some are angry.
Likely the people resisting change so vehemently are the ones who're content to ride the game in to destruction as long as they can keep plowing their familiar tiny groove hour after hour, day after day.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on November 05, 2026, 12:53:09 AM
Likely the people resisting change so vehemently are the ones who're content to ride the game in to destruction as long as they can keep plowing their familiar tiny groove hour after hour, day after day.
Sorry, but the reason I played this game over any of the others is because of the less need for completely immersing myself in the winter of 1943.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: nrshida on November 05, 2026, 01:26:51 AM
Sorry, but the reason I played this game over any of the others is because of the less need for completely immersing myself in the winter of 1943.
I wasn't referring to you buddy. I don't think I've ever ran into you online. I was thinking of the crusty, conservative MA players - especially in Euro daytimes - who've had gameplay exactly how they've wanted it for ten years at the expense of anyone else's gameplay or interests.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Eagler on November 05, 2026, 06:04:05 AM
From the whining you'd think HT installed FSO or scenario dar settings in ma ... :banana:
The icons are still there, you just need to use your noodle more to figure out what the dar info is telling you..
I didn't know there were so many SA dead clipboard weenies in the game..
Thanks again for trying different things to add spice to my gaming life HT :aok
Eagler
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on November 05, 2026, 07:09:31 AM
It would be at a longer rate like 20 or more secs.
HiTech
Then I completely agree with essentially everything you proposed and look forward to testing it.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: DmonSlyr on November 05, 2026, 09:34:52 PM
Why cant we just go back to the simplicity of the old radar system, just making radar towers 10k pounds or something to take out. The only issue was the weak tower.
For these new updates, does dar ring even matter? For example there should be a "no man's land" where there is no radar between the dar rings. This way, it adds a little suspense and makes it easier to fight without getting ganged as easily.
There should be real time dot dar inside the rings, but if tower destroyed then no dot dar and half to depend on dar bar. Or if the radar is down, then the "spot player" radar is the only thing that would show the dot.
Relative or delayed radar just makes everyone confused.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: The Fugitive on November 05, 2026, 10:36:20 PM
Why cant we just go back to the simplicity of the old radar system, just making radar towers 10k pounds or something to take out. The only issue was the weak tower.
For these new updates, does dar ring even matter? For example there should be a "no man's land" where there is no radar between the dar rings. This way, it adds a little suspense and makes it easier to fight without getting ganged as easily.
There should be real time dot dar inside the rings, but if tower destroyed then no dot dar and half to depend on dar bar. Or if the radar is down, then the "spot player" radar is the only thing that would show the dot.
Relative or delayed radar just makes everyone confused.
Thats what I think the next update covers.
Dar circles matter so if dar is up 5 second refresh, if down they are on the same 20 second line of site dar cycle we have now
The fading I hope follows these changes. 20 second, long fade, 5 second quick fade.
I hope the dar is a bit tougher to kill. A single D 9 blowing through shouldn't be able to drop the dar moving it to the 20 second refresh delay. Defending the dar will need a bit of help
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: caldera on November 06, 2026, 06:55:04 AM
Why cant we just go back to the simplicity of the old radar system, just making radar towers 10k pounds or something to take out. The only issue was the weak tower.
For these new updates, does dar ring even matter? For example there should be a "no man's land" where there is no radar between the dar rings. This way, it adds a little suspense and makes it easier to fight without getting ganged as easily.
There should be real time dot dar inside the rings, but if tower destroyed then no dot dar and half to depend on dar bar. Or if the radar is down, then the "spot player" radar is the only thing that would show the dot.
Relative or delayed radar just makes everyone confused.
Yep. It seems overly complicated.
There also should be some sort of explanation upon log-in. Radar was changed recently and now it has changed again, only more drastically different this time. Is it live, or is it Memorex? I don't know wtf I'm looking at.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Eagler on November 06, 2026, 07:40:48 AM
There also should be some sort of explanation upon log-in. Radar was changed recently and now it has changed again, only more drastically different this time. Is it live, or is it Memorex? I don't know wtf I'm looking at.
It's not rocket science...
It refreshes and fades ..
Watch it then think ahead where the bad guy might be and start looking out of the cockpit...
You can't play the game by clipboard only anymore...of the horror.. :joystick:
Eagler
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: TechWrek on November 06, 2026, 09:03:37 AM
So contacts that are both radar contacts and seen contacts will appear on everyone's map with type icons, heading info, and a 5 second update rate even in arenas that have radar set to dots?
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: nrshida on November 06, 2026, 10:41:30 AM
Oooooooooh, now it makes sense. Players really flew with the clipboard open the whole time? That's pretty sad.
You could more or less give someone a check six from anywhere in the arena. At least tell them something was moving toward them.
I like where it's going. My only quibble is the time period where the board looks blank to me. There's a few seconds where I can't see any icons. If he just up's the opacity minimum by 10 to 20 percent I think it would help.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: -gg- on November 06, 2026, 10:57:22 AM
Oooooooooh, now it makes sense. Players really flew with the clipboard open the whole time? That's pretty sad.
yes. and those are the guys who are crying here and saying it takes away "SA" lol . Go into some clouds and still track the plane by clipboard.
I think the most fun I had recently was in my first scenario - where there is ZERO radar. That was fun. Planes all around over the objective - and they knew we were coming, but you had to keep your eyes peeled. That was great.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: The Fugitive on November 06, 2026, 11:32:40 AM
You could more or less give someone a check six from anywhere in the arena. At least tell them something was moving toward them.
I like where it's going. My only quibble is the time period where the board looks blank to me. There's a few seconds where I can't see any icons. If he just up's the opacity minimum by 10 to 20 percent I think it would help.
Wiley.
I hope Hitech can separate all the different signals..
Friendly icons don't need to fade. Enemy icons INSIDE a dar circle that is "up" should have the old 5 second delay and don't need to fade Harden the dar a bit to make it last a bit longer, shouldn't be able to gun it down. Dar will be more important because.... When dar is down all enemy icons change to the 20 second delay in update and do the fade.
I think friendly icons should always be on all over the map. It would simulate "orders" being transmitted from base to base as in for co-ordination in mission/attack's along the fronts.
I think it would give good information without pinpointing every enemy plane
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Eagler on November 06, 2026, 11:55:31 AM
I hope Hitech can separate all the different signals..
Friendly icons don't need to fade. Enemy icons INSIDE a dar circle that is "up" should have the old 5 second delay and don't need to fade Harden the dar a bit to make it last a bit longer, shouldn't be able to gun it down. Dar will be more important because.... When dar is down all enemy icons change to the 20 second delay in update and do the fade.
I think friendly icons should always be on all over the map. It would simulate "orders" being transmitted from base to base as in for co-ordination in mission/attack's along the fronts.
I think it would give good information without pinpointing every enemy plane
It's probably how it'll end up..
Sounds like a great compromise imo..
Eagler
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: hitech on November 06, 2026, 12:06:06 PM
I hope Hitech can separate all the different signals..
Friendly icons don't need to fade. Enemy icons INSIDE a dar circle that is "up" should have the old 5 second delay and don't need to fade Harden the dar a bit to make it last a bit longer, shouldn't be able to gun it down. Dar will be more important because.... When dar is down all enemy icons change to the 20 second delay in update and do the fade.
I think friendly icons should always be on all over the map. It would simulate "orders" being transmitted from base to base as in for co-ordination in mission/attack's along the fronts.
I think it would give good information without pinpointing every enemy plane
Was already the plan.
HiTech
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: The Fugitive on November 06, 2026, 01:53:18 PM
Watch it then think ahead where the bad guy might be and start looking out of the cockpit...
You can't play the game by clipboard only anymore...of the horror.. :joystick:
Eagler
I preferred the old dot dar, where all you had to go on was a darbar. But keep on with your pious crusade against those who dare to have a different opinion.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on November 06, 2026, 02:37:36 PM
I was thinking about it a bit ago and the last part of your proposition where ground targets are shown while “seen” should probably be shut off for the MA. You implied this was a setting (toggle) showing the forethought but, even though I’m not a tank guy, I figured I’d throw that out there. A tank can’t move far in 20 seconds and it seems like an eternity for a tank to be on the clipboard. The only exception I could see would maybe be the storch.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Eagler on November 06, 2026, 03:14:03 PM
I preferred the old dot dar, where all you had to go on was a darbar. But keep on with your pious crusade against those who dare to have a different opinion.
I actually want 40 sec delay with dots instead of the directional plane icons...
Eagler
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: DmonSlyr on November 06, 2026, 05:25:03 PM
Oh, one more thing while we are on the subject.
Can you change the color of the dars for each country so that we can tell the fight situation is on the other side of the map? Too many times I've switched to the hoarding team not realizing who was winning the battle and that defeated the purpose of switching for me. Sometimes it's very tough to know which team needs the lending hand.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: JimmyD3 on November 06, 2026, 05:54:03 PM
Can you change the color of the dars for each country so that we can tell the fight situation is on the other side of the map? Too many times I've switched to the hoarding team not realizing who was winning the battle and that defeated the purpose of switching for me. Sometimes it's very tough to know which team needs the lending hand.
Make the colors player set. This would allow the color blind players to customize the Country colors also.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on November 06, 2026, 05:58:34 PM
Make the colors player set. This would allow the color blind players to customize the Country colors also.
GUI already allows for setting colors.
He’s asking for a differential between the color of country darbars. So he can tell which side is outnumbered and join the low number side. Currently all enemy darbar is the same color.
Currently all darbar is either red or green.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Wiley on November 06, 2026, 06:34:06 PM
Curious how you would sort this out with three countries and being able to switch between them.
You can already have a color for each country on the map, just apply their color to their percentage of the total bardar in the sector, or alternately have 3 bars.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on November 06, 2026, 10:19:54 PM
If all of you wanna play completely blind, for some reason, just go play IL2 multiplayer.
Sometimes when I head towards the base, I have to go to the bathroom. Sometimes that number one turns into a number two. Sometimes I’ll need a minute so I’d like to know what I’m going into.
:old:
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Eagler on November 07, 2026, 06:28:59 AM
If all of you wanna play completely blind, for some reason, just go play IL2 multiplayer.
Sometimes when I head towards the base, I have to go to the bathroom. Sometimes that number one turns into a number two. Sometimes I’ll need a minute so I’d like to know what I’m going into.
:old:
Lol best reason I have heard yet for clipboard AH..New dar makes me crap my pants.. :banana: :old:
No one said no dar and what HT has now is definitely not no dar..
If the plane icons are kept and not replaced by dots then I truly don't see your cripe...
Eagler
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on November 07, 2026, 10:07:51 AM
He’s asking for a differential between the color of country darbars. So he can tell which side is outnumbered and join the low number side. Currently all enemy darbar is the same color.
Currently all darbar is either red or green.
Yes, this is what I meant in case there was any confusion.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Animl-AW on November 07, 2026, 10:51:02 AM
This can incite country targeting.
We move from not wanting to know everything to wanting to know everything.
This is out of hand IMO
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on November 07, 2026, 01:25:45 PM
He’s asking for a differential between the color of country darbars. So he can tell which side is outnumbered and join the low number side. Currently all enemy darbar is the same color.
Currently all darbar is either red or green.
No lilmak, that is now what I said,or what I want. Man you get spun up to fast. :rolleyes: :D
But yeah, Red planes on a Red Darbar don't show up to well, do they? Then you have to deal with the plane colors on the CBM that prevent you from seeing friendlies or nme's.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on November 07, 2026, 02:04:50 PM
No lilmak, that is now what I said,or what I want. Man you get spun up to fast. :rolleyes: :D
But yeah, Red planes on a Red Darbar don't show up to well, do they? Then you have to deal with the plane colors on the CBM that prevent you from seeing friendlies or nme's.
What!! You have the clipboard open!!! there’s no reason to have that clip or ever open. Haven’t you heard???? :rofl
Long ago, I changed the friendly icon colors on the clipboard from the matrix screen to a lighter shade of blue because I had trouble seeing individual icons when the map was zoomed in or there were large groups. This was great until the fading now over water and certain strains. It’s hard to see the blue. I just need to go a little darker.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: DmonSlyr on November 07, 2026, 06:42:15 PM
We move from not wanting to know everything to wanting to know everything.
This is out of hand IMO
:rofl we already have country targeting. What do you think it is when one country is getting jumped from both sides all night?
The other night I switched to the hoarding team even though they had 3 less players because I couldn't tell who was winning the battle. If the maps arent producing battles on all 3 sides, than its beneficial to know what the other side of the map is producing so that I can go join that side that needs help and let's me enjoy the battle rather than flying around aimlessly with a hoard and not being able to switch back.
Each side should have its own color dar. Thats all it is.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: LilMak on November 08, 2026, 08:35:50 AM
No lilmak, that is now what I said,or what I want. Man you get spun up to fast. :rolleyes: :D
But yeah, Red planes on a Red Darbar don't show up to well, do they? Then you have to deal with the plane colors on the CBM that prevent you from seeing friendlies or nme's.
That was an attempt on a more in-depth explanation of what Violator was asking for. Not any kind of elevation or contradiction to anything you said. I’m sorry if it came across that way.
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Flayed1 on November 08, 2026, 10:20:57 AM
OK, after reading 18 pages of this drama the other night I finally logged on and flew a few sorties, and I have to say I have no idea what all the fuss is about. It was still very easy to see where the action was, what types of aircraft were there and what was coming after me. Honestly for me I could get along with a more hard core version of this and go back to dots like the good old days of AH1. I liked not knowing what the dot I was going after was. That feeling of surprise when you think "Oh crap those aren't the buffs you thought you were going to get the drop on!" and you end up having to take on some fighters instead. The way the dar is set now I see very little difference than how it was other than the icons blink now. Even if it was set at a 60 second timer that I see was originally tried, I honestly don't believe I would have had an issue with that either. All ya need is the red icon to pop up and go hunting. If this, what I consider a small dar change is affecting your game play so badly that you want to quit or have to come to the forums and rant then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe I'm just feeling old and over the years I have watched many things change in AH to make it easier, and it is actually refreshing to see something take a step back for a change. I know I could be on the far end of the scale here because I miss things like the manual bomb sight calibration and the manual gear box in the GV's (this one still drives me nuts) and several other things but I didn't come here crying all that loudly about it. Grow up and learn to accept change, I and many others had to, and you can too. See ya in the air. <S>
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Dadtallica on November 08, 2026, 11:30:19 AM
I miss things like the manual bomb sight calibration and the manual gear box in the GV's (this one still drives me nuts) and several other things but I didn't come here crying all that loudly about it. Grow up and learn to accept change, I and many others had to, and you can too. See ya in the air. <S>
I like this part too when I was more into ground vehicles why was it removed? We need a good old fashioned Jeep race! :airplane:
Title: Re: Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar
Post by: Max on November 08, 2026, 11:43:38 AM