Roman Catholics not Christians?

[AWkrull]

Do you believe the bible is the inspired written word of God? If you do, Is the Bible all one would need to become a Christian?

There many problems that I see in this thread,(not this particular post) but I wont try to address them all at this time. What I'll start with tho, is this particular quote.

While the Bible is the inspired written word of God. It is a book that gives us the laws of God, the warnings from the prophets, as well as the life and death of the Messiah, Jesus.
The Bible is not "all one would need to become a Christian". While Christian does literally mean Christ-like, being a Christian is much more than a book. There is a saying that some of you might be familiar with, ..."going to church doesnt make you a Christian anymore than standing in a garage makes you a car.". Well the same thing applies here. The Bible doesnt make you a Christian, your personal relationship with Christ does. Without that relationship what do you have? Whether or not you go to church or what church that you go to does not make you a Christian. It is that relationship that you are building everyday. What going to church does help you with is being around other Christians. That in and of itself can help you to become a better Christian and a more focused-on-God Christian. By being around Christians, better helps you to battle the "World" by knowing that there are others that also believe.
The Word of God is what we learn from the Bible. As long as we use the Bible as a tool of God and not worship it "as" God, then you will walk in the Light of God. That Word leads us to God, and teaches us what Gods character is. It also teaches about the Commandments, again testifying to the character of God, the most important being, as taught by Jesus, to " '...love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. A second is equally important: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the other commandments and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments." Matthew 22:37-40.

I apologize to everyone I didnt think I was going to write this much but seeing how I am long winded,....there it is... my opinion and my belief of fact.
<> to all and God bless. If ya dont believe then God bless anyway

[AWkrull]

Originally posted by hblair
Do you believe the bible is the inspired written word of God? If you do, Is the Bible all one would need to become a Christian?

There many problems that I see in this thread,(not this particular post) but I wont try to address them all at this time. What I'll start with tho, is this particular quote.

While the Bible is the inspired written word of God. It is a book that gives us the laws of God, the warnings from the prophets, as well as the life and death of the Messiah, Jesus.
The Bible is not "all one would need to become a Christian". While Christian does literally mean Christ-like, being a Christian is much more than a book. There is a saying that some of you might be familiar with, ..."going to church doesnt make you a Christian anymore than standing in a garage makes you a car.". Well the same thing applies here. The Bible doesnt make you a Christian, your personal relationship with Christ does. Without that relationship what do you have? Whether or not you go to church or what church that you go to does not make you a Christian. It is that relationship that you are building everyday. What going to church does help you with is being around other Christians. That in and of itself can help you to become a better Christian and a more focused-on-God Christian. By being around Christians, better helps you to battle the "World" by knowing that there are others that also believe.
The Word of God is what we learn from the Bible. As long as we use the Bible as a tool of God and not worship it "as" God, then you will walk in the Light of God. That Word leads us to God, and teaches us what Gods character is. It also teaches about the Commandments, again testifying to the character of God, the most important being, as taught by Jesus, to " '...love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. A second is equally important: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the other commandments and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments." Matthew 22:37-40.

I apologize to everyone I didnt think I was going to write this much but seeing how I am long winded,....there it is... my opinion and my belief of fact.
<> to all and God bless. If ya dont believe then God bless anyway

[AWkrull]

Whoops I didnt mean to post that twice. Sorry fellers

[Heiliger]

Originally posted by AWkrull
Whoops I didnt mean to post that twice. Sorry fellers

You are forgiven!  

[hblair]

Originally posted by AWkrull

The Bible is not "all one would need to become a Christian". While Christian does literally mean Christ-like, being a Christian is much more than a book.

Thanks for the reply AWkrull. I didn't make myself clear and that's my fault, sorry. What I mean is the Bible is all one needs to learn about God, the way he's dealt with man, what he wants us to do, etc.
For example, everything is in there pertaining to salvation. Wanna know how to become a christian?... well, lets look at the scripture, you gotta hear the word, romans 10: 17, you gotta believe the word, john 3:16, you gotta repent of sins luke 13:3 and 5, you gotta be baptized mark 16:16, 1 peter 3:21,then you have to be faithful, 1 corinthians 10:12, galatians 5:4. There are many other verses, these are the ones i could bring up right now.

The jist of my posts above is that in todays world people are inclined to think that what they belive or 'feel in their heart' is just as important (if not more important) as what the written word of God says. II timothy 3:16 shows us the error of that school of thought.

[Maverick]

IMHO,

It isn't which church you attned, which version of the bible you read, which way you worship or which way you interpret all of the above. It's how you live them that is important. Actions based on your belief are the crucial issue, not apperances.

[AWkrull]

Originally posted by Maverick
IMHO,

It isn't which church you attned, which version of the bible you read, which way you worship or which way you interpret all of the above. It's how you live them that is important. Actions based on your belief are the crucial issue, not apperances.

Actually you are right according to the entire book of James. I'll summarize it in one sentence. Faith without action is futile.

However; it begins and ends with the faith and hope of God and the promise of the ressurection.

[Nwbie]

The written word of God?
You ever play post office?
Start on one end-someone says something, whispers to the next person and so on... the other end usually has a somewhat close, but entirely different interpretation..
My point is, the writings of the bible are many many years after most of the "events" hapened, passed on generation to generation
I am quite sure there are embellishments and stories that were "edited" to make things sound better, it is and always has been - a feel good, feel bad, here are some rules to live by book..
Nothing more, nothing less..
NwBie

Originally posted by hblair
I'm going to drop a stink bomb on this thread and make some people uncomfortable.



When I read things like above and hear people preach that "we can believe what we want, worship how we want, we're all going to heaven", well, I ask myself, how does this jive with the Bible? Seeings how the Bible is the inspired written word of God (if we claim to be a christian)

When I go to the scripture and see what Jesus teachings are, and the Apostles teachings are, I find a whole different way of thinking. ephesians 4:4 speaks of one church, one belief, one baptism. Well, ok, the "one belief" bit is talking about all the "denominations" (read divisions) right? well, what about 1 corinthians 1:10-13 ? Is paul ok with the church at corinth having divisions in itself? In verse 12 he points out that some were saying they were of paul, others of cephas, etc. Then he asks is Christ divided. Kinda sounds like "denominations" eh ?

This is ont a popular thing to bring up to believers because the denomination system is just second nature here 2000 years later. but if you're a student of the book you see that the apostles worked hard to be sure that the church kept the same doctrine. "You believe what you believe and I'll do my thing and we'll meet in heaven together!" was corrected real fast by Paul.

romans 16:16-18 tells us what the church was called back then and then tells us what to do with division and those causing it. Seems harsh by todays standard huh?

Some say denominations arent divisions? Well, then let the catholic priest come to the baptist church and sprinkle some babies. That wouldn't go over well? why? What about the church of God preacher go to mass and heal some people? that wouldn't go over well? why? they believe different things? why is that? doctrines of men maybe?

Still not convinced that denominations are all mans idea? Where is any denomination mentioned in the Bible? Now we know that the church is mentioned in the Bible. It is called "the church of our God", the "church of Christ", all names referring to deity. Nothing refering to methods or baptists etc. why is that?

There are several instances of people obeying the gospel and being added to "the church" in the new testament. Nobody was voted in. Acts 2: 47 tells of a different way they were added. It's good enough for me.

It's late and I gotta hit the sack, but look at john 17 from about verse 20 to the end of the chapter. Think of the setting. Jesus is in the garden praying to the father, he's going through the anguish of knowing whats gonna happen the next day, but what is he thinking about? the Apostles and those who will believe "through their word". How many times does he say he wants believers to be "one"? What's he trying to say?


So, the point of my post is denominations are mans invention. They were never meant to be.
All you need is a bible and an open mind and you will find the truth.
I am a member of the church of Christ. the one instituted in acts 2. I was also added to the church, not voted in, another one of mans inventions.
The church originated in Acts 2 and has been around for 2000 years. Whenever the word hits fertile soil, a member is soon added.

[wrag]

Originally posted by Nwbie
The written word of God?
You ever play post office?
Start on one end-someone says something, whispers to the next person and so on... the other end usually has a somewhat close, but entirely different interpretation..
My point is, the writings of the bible are many many years after most of the "events" hapened, passed on generation to generation
I am quite sure there are embellishments and stories that were "edited" to make things sound better, it is and always has been - a feel good, feel bad, here are some rules to live by book..
Nothing more, nothing less..
NwBie

Hmmm......

The dead sea scrolls?  Seems after the find the writtings were compared with the current bible.  

Anyone wanna guess what they found?

Note: If one wants an accurate understanding of the current bible one needs the concordance.

The concordance has the original aramaic and greek words and their meanings.  Some words simply do not translate in a turely accurate manner.  Also the way people lived makes a difference as well.

I saw a reference to baptisim being required.  Yet my understanding of that term is "a baptisim of the spirit" more then the body.

2 more examples come to mind.  Length of hair and dogs.

There is a statement regarding the length of a mans hair in the bible.  It should be noted that the actual length of a man's hair is not overly important as the actual reference was put forth due to male prostitutes at the time wearing their hair long.  The reason was to avoid looking like, or giving the impression that one was a male prostitute and a christian.

Dogs ...

OK this one is .... a family thing that happened to me long ago.  Got it sorted out as soon as I could.  I knew what I heard from a certain family member was not correct at the moment I heard it.

She claimed one could not buy or sell dogs.  The scripture she refered to says something like whoa unto those that enter the synagoge with the price of a dog in their pocket.

Well hey....... the actual reference uses the price of a dog, dogs were unclean and sold for like 1/2 a cent, as being too much to have in your pocket if you and not paid your teth.

So much can get twisted if tha actual way things were then vs the way things are not is NOT taken into account.

The eye of the needle?  Anyone wanna take that one?

[genozaur]

Originally posted by Hawklore
Well if you consider that the only christians back then were umm, Catholics.

The Roman Catholic church was the only largely wide known christian community. Granted there were others..

Here, it may of been because it was hidden between the two quotes.

313
Emperor Constantine officially recognizes The Catholic Church when he issued the Edict of Milan. Then I posted the Edict of Milan, of course it's from a Catholic website, .

This thread is for learning History, so, if you disagree with me, find some crediable history behind it, and post it.

Both Roman Catholic and (Eastern) Orthodox churches claim to be 'catholic' (=universal), both use this term.
So we should compare the Roman Christian Church and the Eastern Christian Orthodox Church.

[hblair]

Nwbie, if you do some research on the history of the canon of the bible, you'll find it stands up. wrag mentioned the dead sea scrolls. very good point, also taking into account the extreme strict discipline of the teams of scribes who were given the responsibility of copying. There was no "interpret it as you feel" going on. And also josephus, an ancient historian, mentions the books of the OT in his works.
Jesus quotes OT scripture in the gospels, thousands of years after the pentateuch was penned. And what about the hittites?

wrag, there are ten examples of conversions in the NT. All ten were baptized in water. Christ commands baptism in mark 16:16. 1 peter 3:20-22 peter uses an illustration from the OT to show that indeed water baptism is essential. of course in this day, we, man, know that water can't save, so we say "God I thank you for Jesus, I see in the bible where it says to be baptized, but hey, this is the new millenia, and a lot of people just don't think it's essential, so I'll just believe in my heart that Jesus Christ is the son of God and that'll be good enough for you God."

If our boss at work tells us to do something that makes no sense to us we do it anyway (if we wanna keep our job) We'll buy our wives rings that make no sense to us because we know they want it. But when God, creator of all, and the one who sacrificed Jesus Christ puts an easy simple command in the scripture, most "believers" try to find any way they can out of it or explain it away?

And many that are baptized have no idea what the point of it is.

water baptism is a symbol of christs death burial and ressurection romans 6:3-5. Remission of sins, acts 22:16.

Now don't think i'm saying baptism is the only thing one must do. of course not. It's just the most misunderstood thing today in our "have it your way" religious world.

[hblair]

And the thief on the cross wasn't under the new testament... hebrews 9:12-18