Author Topic: 3 Years in Jail  (Read 2036 times)

Offline Scootter

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« Reply #75 on: January 28, 2004, 06:58:05 PM »
In 1920 the U.S. Army Ordnance conducted a series of experiments to try and determine the velocity of falling bullets. The tests were performed from a platform in the middle of a lake near Miami, Florida. The platform was ten feet square and a thin sheet of armor plate was placed over the men firing the gun. The gun was held in a fixture that would allow the gun to be adjusted to bring the shots close to the platform. It was surmised that the sound of the falling bullets could be heard when they hit the water or the platform. They fired .30 caliber, 150 gr., Spitzer point bullets, at a velocity of 2,700 f.p.s. Using the bullet ballistic coefficient and elapsed time from firing until the bullet struck the water, they calculated that the bullet traveled 9,000 feet in 18 seconds and fell to earth in 31 seconds for a total time of 49 seconds.

As a comparison, the .30 caliber bullet fired in a vacuum at 2,700 f.p.s. would rise nearly 21.5 miles and require 84 seconds to make the ascent and another 84 seconds to make its descent. It would return with the same velocity that it left the gun. This gives you some idea of what air resistance or drag does to a bullet in flight.

Out of the more than 500 shots fired from the test platform only 4 falling bullets struck the platform and one fell in the boat near the platform. One of the bullets striking the platform left a 1/16 inch deep mark in the soft pine board. The bullet struck base first.

Based on the results of these tests it was concluded that the bullet return velocity was about 300 f.p.s. For the 150 gr. bullet this corresponds to an energy of 30 foot pounds. Earlier the Army had determined that, on the average, it required 60 foot pounds of energy to produce a disabling wound. Based on this information, a falling 150 gr. service bullet would not be lethal, although it could produce a serious wound.

Many other experiments have been made to find the amount of air drag on a .30 caliber bullet at various velocities and it was found that the drag at 320 f.p.s. balances the weight of the .021 lb. (150 gr.) bullet and terminal velocity is achieved. For larger calibers the bullet terminal velocity is higher since the bullet weight is greater in relation to the diameter. Major Julian Hatcher in his book Hatcher’s Notebook estimates that a 12 inch shell weighing 1000 pounds and fired straight up would return with a speed of 1,300 to 1,400 feet per second and over 28 million foot pounds of striking energy.

13 posted on 08/17/2003 6:26:27 PM PDT by wwcj

Offline Fishu

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« Reply #76 on: January 28, 2004, 11:08:48 PM »
I don't remember anymore which case it was when Iraqis got 'quite' happy and shot in the air more than usual.
IIRC Some 3-5 people died and several were wounded by the *falling* bullets.

I'd hate to get wounded in any way by a falling bullet, shot by some *******.... I'd sure as hell would call the cops and get the guy arrested for some gun crime - so much for his gun collection!

I wouldn't underestimate the power of falling bullets.
Especially when people doesn't necessarily shoot *straight* up.

Offline Cobra412

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« Reply #77 on: January 28, 2004, 11:55:13 PM »
I own firearms here in California and brandishing the weapon is in fact a chargeable offense.  Also you have to show just cause for bringing the weapon out.  Even if they had a bat or knife and were a decent distance away brandishing the weapon is still illegal.  They weren't an immediate threat to your life.  

It's rather odd because even if they were closer and seemed to be a threat and charged you with the weapon you could still be held accountable.  This I'm not exactly sure of this but this is how it was explained to me.  The means used to defend yourself cannot exceed the force being used.  How they explained it was that a gun defending against a knife is use of extreme lethal force.  Not sure how true that is though.  

My opinion if someone was on my property and seemed suspicious I would probably access my firearms too, but holstered ofcourse.  Only because thats how I was taught in the military.  They taught us the "use of force pyramid" and how it pertains to each situation and how to try to deescalate situations.

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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« Reply #78 on: January 29, 2004, 12:32:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Scootter
more antigun stuff that’s all


More like anti-shooting-into-the-sky-like-a-retard stuff.

The skull ain't exactly the strongest thing in the world, a small fast object smacking it will cause more than a minor injury.
-SW

Offline Dinger

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« Reply #79 on: January 29, 2004, 01:09:40 AM »
Every new years in LA someone dies from a High Angle bullet.
We see it happening; physics to the contrary is just wrong.  You shoot a gun in the air in an urban area, the bullet will come down.


oh and "I feared for my life" should be in a phrasebook handed to all gun owners.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #80 on: January 29, 2004, 08:50:30 AM »
talked to the cops at work... "brandishing" a weapon within city limits is illegal even on your own property.   You will be warned not to do so... if you are a real moron about it you could be charged with a misdomeaner.... maximum... The worst that could happen is a fine.  

outside city limits there is no restriction to carrying on your own property.

Reckless driving will cost you more and hurt your record more.

lazs

Offline Curval

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« Reply #81 on: January 29, 2004, 09:07:02 AM »
You have Delaware cops at your work in California?

My friend was clearly charged with either threatening or assault with a deadly weapon, not brandishing.

He got 3 years which may be reduced to 1.5 years.  That is a fact.

I'm not going to get on the internet and do a pile of research to try and see if my friend is lying, nor am I going to request a transcript of his case to prove the same.  I just don't need to do this.  Maybe he did, maybe he didn't...I'll take him at his word.

I'm happy with the responses I got here, and I will find out the details in due course.  I can't change what happened and fighting about it here is unproductive.

So...thanks, but I'm done.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline Mini D

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« Reply #82 on: January 29, 2004, 09:18:35 AM »
Nobody said he was lying curval...

Once again... it's just that there's more to a conviction like this than the story allows for.  Especially for that length of jail sentance.  If you're asking for an explanation of how it could happen, the only real answer would be "I don't know, there's not nearly enough there to explain it."  That's why the discussion turned to such things as right of property laws and brandishing laws.  There could be a wide variety of issues.

But given the conviction...  Your friend pointed a weapon at someone (all guns are assumed loaded in the U.S.) and threatened them when there were definately other actions that could have been taken.  That is illegal to do in many states.

MiniD

Offline Angus

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« Reply #83 on: January 29, 2004, 12:01:05 PM »
180 fps is enough to penetrate human flesh (for a bullet size thingie)
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Scootter

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« Reply #84 on: January 29, 2004, 06:42:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Angus
180 fps is enough to penetrate human flesh (for a bullet size thingie)


so can a BB

but I don't think it will kill many, unless you have a real soft head and no-one on this board (myself included) is in any danger:D

Offline Rasker

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« Reply #85 on: January 30, 2004, 12:59:11 AM »
Im betting that utuility company had an easement or right of way across the edge of his property, which is pretty standard.  If thats the case, they have a right to come on that portion of the property for purposes reasonably related to maintaining their equipment.  Which means they were within their rights to be there.  I still find it hard to believe an assault conviction resulted when the gun was never pointed at them.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #86 on: January 30, 2004, 08:09:11 AM »
curval said that they had no ID.   Is brandishing a weapon within city limits a felony in delaware?   Are we becoming women and brits?

lazs

Offline Sway

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« Reply #87 on: January 30, 2004, 08:10:13 AM »
Don't drop the soap... :eek:

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #88 on: January 30, 2004, 08:13:58 AM »
I think this whole thing points out why we need handguns...

I have responsed to "intrusion" alarms while on standby and just put my walther ppk in my pocket.  I keep my hand on it and keep my distance while finding out what is going on.   Sometimes PG&E (power co) guys will be on the property and not have a co truck or proper ID.  I tell them that I am sorry but they will have to leave.

If the guy would have had a handgun he could have avoided showing it until he felt threatened.... in which case... none of this woulda mattered..

Concealed carry is the answer to a polite society.

lazs

Offline AKcurly

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« Reply #89 on: January 30, 2004, 08:18:47 AM »
Gun laws vary considerably from state to state.  In Texas, it is legal to use deadly force on intruders

In Oklahoma, you can be arrested for having a loaded, concealed (pistol) weapon in a car, although rifles can be openly carried on a gunrack in your truck

In Kansas, remember the farmer whose house was continually being vandalized?  The house was vacant, so he rigged a gun to shoot through the door if anyone opened it.  I don't remember if the gun killed or just injured the vandal, but the farmer lost his farm in the resulting lawsuit.

curly