Remorse for virtual death?

[Am0n]

Originally posted by Kieran:
Let's take a stab at a positive-consequence approach. In "Flying Circus" pilots who went on a streak could acquire symbols next to their icons, representing levels of accomplishment. If you died, you lost the icon, the recounter was reset, and you started building again. See the beauty of it? If you don't care about the counter, you lose nothing. If you do, you have an incentive to live. No one hurt. No one forced to play anyone's game. Peace and harmony and stuff like that.

lol i dont want you to play like me, play how you wish. What your saying is that, under the sytem i purposed, you wouldnt be able to chase someone down, blow your E, his E, kill him and die 20 seconds later and be happy? i thought you didnt play for points?

I really like what you stated about the  flying circus system though, you give somehting for getting kills but take it away when they die. That really is a great idea, maybe not the identical system but the concept is awesome.

Ohh maybe you get credit+points multiplier for killing someone, but you loose them if you die.. wait thats what i originaly said, that'll never work.. I would say that this method is a "positive-consequence approach".  

Get more points for multiple kills and loose all credit if you die. If you flat out die w/o getting a kill, no harm done then. So newbies who land that "one" kill can fly it home if they dont think that they can get another.. thats simple.

[Am0n]

Nice idea eagler  

Wouldnt you think that would discourage a lot of people? There is a very few that would benefit from that. most who have no chance at all of ever achieving that status wouldnt care either way, becuase them like my self know they will never be that good.

but for a few of you guys, im sure you would LOVE that system! (i would if i was that good, for sure)  

[Rude]

I personally think dying sucks. I fly to live and have fun or I wouldn't be playing now, much less the last ten years.

Much to everyones suprise I'm sure, I'm capable of grabbing a spit and entering a furball, twist and shout with everyone else and get 5 kills, then die. That style of play may be fun to many, just not for me.

My motivation to kill as many enemy as possible and land those kills is self driven. My score doesn't matter to me nor does the admiration of fellow pilots...it's just about reaching my own personal goals.

I'm afraid that if HTC would lean towards a more score or life driven system, it would compromise gameplay.

I would like to see a streak counter of sorts implemented as it suits my style of play without effecting anyone elses.

I must admit, if the majority of everyone in the arena flew as I do, life just might lose it's luster for the community at large. I remember back in AWDOS, some of the best pilots hung out at 20k plus looking for that one on one...if you vetured up into their turf you had better be prepared for a potent air to air experience.

Let's just count our blessings and be thankful that we have a everchanging product from which we all can act like kids again

 

[lazs1]

kieran... yep, played flying circus (you may recall).  I never minded the icon one way or the other but some felt that it "singled em out".  It kinda did.  I would kill ol docdoom over and over.  I never minded people hunting me, still don't.  It adds to the action.

In WB they tried a "handle icon" in the HA when yu got in close.   A lot of guys hated that too for the same reason..  They didn't want a target on their chest.  

In AH we have the idiotic perk system.  Perk planes are targets in the arena.   Most of the reason they are not used has nothing to do with their cost except that the more the cost the more people like killing em.

While I would not care if my icon said "general" or "private" I would enjoy killing a "general" just to hear the wussy, sky accountant squeal.
lazs

[Kieran]

No, what I am saying is that if you remove the possibility of accruing points if you die, you remove the possiblity that people can get into the better rides. This is a penalty against furballing, not an incentive to live. Big difference.

How does it affect me? I like to furball once in a while. Your idea will reduce the instances of furballs (if it works the way you describe you would like it to).

See, the way it is now you still get some points for getting kills, even if you die. You get more points if you land them. This is incentive based, because you don't get things taken away, you simply get more to live.

For the sake of argument let's say your plan is done. Then we take BlauK's suggestion and perk everything. Now what happens? New guy comes in, is forced to fly 202. He has virtually no chance of killing or surviving. He manages a kill in a furball, and gets taken out on egress. He goes to the hangar to check score- "0". It is about here it will dawn on him the stack is tipped way against him and realize there are other places to spend his money.

No, it won't make me fly any differently because I don't care about my points (unless you want to perk everything). Difference here is I am established, and can hold my own. Still, the core attempt you are making is to reduce the amount of play you don't find desirable.

[Kieran]

Yup, that icon no doubt singles you out. But hey, the thrill is living, right? You can run all around the arena "living", having the time of your life. You can trail 30 people behind you, all looking for your pelt, then land satisfied you had a fulfilling mission pulling that train around the arena. <jk>

Still, you must agree the motivation for this type of incentive is recognition, and it delivers in spades. It's like wearing a great, big sandwich sign that says "Lookout, I'm hotsh*t, you'd better not mess with me!" Who could resist walking up to barely brush the sign with the tip of a finger?  

[ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: Kieran ]

[Apache]

Much to everyones suprise I'm sure, I'm capable of grabbing a spit and entering a furball, twist and shout with everyone else and get 5 kills, then die. That style of play may be fun to many, just not for me.

Am I reading you wrong? Spit drivers don't fly to live? I do. Whatever I fly, I hate being shot down. I want to land every kill I get.

[Am0n]

I hope im not being taken wrong here, i really like AH. Im sure anyone who seen the tremendous amount of time i have put into it in the last 4 months would agree (logged over 200 hours last tour). Saying that i will add i would hate to see anyone else not enjoy the game as much as i do.


The real issue here, which we have strayed from, is do you like the idea of adding in something that would make one want to land there kills? somehting besides personal gratification. Maybe somehthing that would make it short of imperitive to take your kills home and land them.

Personaly i like the approach you spoke of Keiran, give something for kills (more than now), but take it away for death.

So we could promote taking the bandit down, and taking it home with you.

[Kieran]

That I agree with. In the MA, give to make it more attractive to live. In scenarios or CT, take to make life more valuable.  

[Eagler]

Originally posted by Am0n:
Nice idea eagler  

Wouldnt you think that would discourage a lot of people? There is a very few that would benefit from that. most who have no chance at all of ever achieving that status wouldnt care either way, becuase them like my self know they will never be that good.

but for a few of you guys, im sure you would LOVE that system! (i would if i was that good, for sure)  

I guess you could figure in a handicap system like they do in golf based off the previous tour stats for the lesser skilled pilots. seems they collect the data monthly now, just don't do anything with it as game play goes.
The existing rank system is hosed as you have to do well in all aspects of the game versus just in fighters - where it should count  

[Rude]

Nothing against spit drivers...just an example of a plane that turns

 

[Apache]

Originally posted by Rude:
Nothing against spit drivers...just an example of a plane that turns  

  (Image removed from quote.)

As I suspected, I was reading you wrong.  

[Am0n]

Originally posted by Kieran:
That I agree with. In the MA, give to make it more attractive to live. In scenarios or CT, take to make life more valuable.    

I thought you would have some valueble insight to add, you seemed to have strong fealings on the subject. Care to elaborate?

[Kieran]

I can if you like.

The MA is an environment that allows the broadest spectrum of play. It is attractive in that it allows newbies to get into action immediately (or veteren's if that is their preference), it allows strategy, it allows team play, it allows loner play... in short, there is little you can't do. That forces compromises in some of the play style, but it is not intended to be ultra realistic from conception- otherwise you wouldn't have Allied planes chasing B-17's.

The CT and Scenarios are a different animal altogether. The draw for these types of arenas/events is the fact it is an attempt to bring as much real fear into the play as possible. Here, one life completely changes the type of play and is desirable. Anyone signing on knows from the start they will be told where to go, how high to be, what targets to attack, etc. Structure is what it's all about, and recreating as much as possible some vestage of what it was like to be strapped in a multi-ton object, wondering if you would be alive at the end of the day.

They are two separate arenas with two separate goals. Yes, MA action is deathmatch oriented, but yes, to some extent that is a desirable outcome. This is also why if you want to promote living in the MA you must be careful how you approach the issue. You do it so that no one is penalized for not playing in that manner. In this way you preserve the concept of the MA while adding options to it for everyone. In the CT and Scenarios, by all mean, conscript people to do what they are ordered and go where they are told, and above all, live.  

[Am0n]

Sorry keiran, i dont know what that elaboration had to do with what i asked, good speach though.

We were making good progress, benifit from kills but loose the benifits for dieing.. Sounds fair to me.

So what benifits do you think would be good to offer, as not to disrupt the MA?