"It was God's will"

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by NUKE
What if you give the "good" person 1 billion dollars or perhapse some lsd and crystal meth? Maybe that "good" person could do evil then?

Are money and drugs "bigger than humanity" ? What about power, greed, love, lust, envy...??

Nuke, you're talking about weak people, or people who simply make errors in judgment.

When Weinberg referred to evil, he meant deeds which place the doer beyond the pale of humanity.  

I'm sure you don't need a litany of evil deeds, but I can list several hundred if you need them.

curly

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Uhm... uhhhhmmmmmmmm... yeaaahhhh. All those threats of kicking ass, they don't exactly make you a "good" person.
-SW

[NUKE]

Originally posted by AKcurly
Nuke, you're talking about weak people, or people who simply make errors in judgment.

When Weinberg referred to evil, he meant deeds which place the doer beyond the pale of humanity.  

I'm sure you don't need a litany of evil deeds, but I can list several hundred if you need them.

curly

To get good people to do evil things--that takes religion."

No, this is what I'm talking about. This statement is BS and even you know it, based on your changing argument.

[NUKE]

Im logging for tonight, so dont take any cheap shots

[straffo]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
How does Mr Weinberg explain communism, an expressly secular ideology aimed helping masses of people but all it accomplished was the murder of hundresds of millions?

If you are going to accet Weinbergs statement you gotta explai that one...

BTW don't be stupid as to say that communism was a religion or a sort of religion, because then you could turn any idealism into a religion and the specific distinction and focus on religion as source of evil deeds would be beaningless.

actually if you look at the etymology of the word... it work.

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by NUKE
You want in too?

Good people (by definition) are good people that will not do evil. If a person does evil, that person is evil and always had been evil, otherwise he would remain good.

What "reason" could a "good" person have to do evil unless he was in fact evil to begin with?


You guys are fun:)

No logic here, but it's still fun.

I'm a lot of things, Nuke, but being illogical isn't one of my failings.

When I was a farmboy, I used to have conversations my tractor.  Man, I wanted off the farm.  In retrospect, the tractor made a lot more sense than you, Nuke.   At least it never responded.

curly

[GRUNHERZ]

Which word, communism, ideology or religion?

Communism is not religion, its expressly secular - no god, no divinty, no higher power, just people.

Mere ideolgy is not religion either. See above.

[straffo]

I'll ask you do dig your french

Religion  : Ensemble de pratiques et de rites propres à chacune de ses croyances.


"C'est en tant que religion, que la doctrine communiste exalte et alimente les ferveurs des jeunes gens d'aujourd'hui. Leur action même implique une croyance; et s'ils transfèrent leur idéal du ciel sur la terre, ainsi que je fais avec eux, ce n'en est pas moins au nom d'un idéal qu'ils luttent et, au besoin, se sacrifient."

GIDE

No need to put faith in god in the equation.
For example a religion based on animism doesn't imply the existance of god ...

and communism can be seen as a religion see (it's a bit provocative )

Yahweh = Materialism
Messiah = Marx
The Elect = the proletariat
Church = the party



Idéologie : L'idéologie, c'est ce qui pense à votre place

[GRUNHERZ]

Animism sure has spiritual elements and some form of other higher power or existance as relflected in the spirts around people and their interacition with the world...

Straffo comminsim is expressly against religion.  You can try to spin it as such but then you could spin any idea or iseology as a religion. But thats desperate...

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Animism sure has spiritual elements and some form of other higher power or existance as relflected in the spirts around people and their interacition with the world...

Straffo comminsim is expressly against religion.  You can try to spin it as such but then you could spin any idea or iseology as a religion. But thats desperate...

Concerning animism, you're wrong, Grun.  Shinto has no "higher power."  Everything has a kami, including inanimate objects.

curly

[straffo]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Animism sure has spiritual elements and some form of other higher power or existance as relflected in the spirts around people and their interacition with the world...

Straffo comminsim is expressly against religion.  You can try to spin it as such but then you could spin any idea or iseology as a religion. But thats desperate...

You need to look-up animism IMO.

Btw I'm not spining anything.

My perception is that comunists are against competition.

[gofaster]

God wasn't talking to her.

[AKIron]

Some of you seem to be overlooking something here in regards to "evil". Evil is defined by religion. If there were no religion there would be no evil, only misguided or depraved "good" people. This seems to be a flaw in Chairboys quote:

"Without religion good people will do good things and evil people will do evil things. To get good people to do evil things--that takes religion."

[Chairboy]

Interesting point, Iron.  After considering it, I'd like to suggest that religion was originally responsible for helping define the concept of evil, but that since then it has taken a life of its own because as a society, we've all agreed on a basic framework of what is good and bad.  Please note, I'm saying it's a basic framework, that still allows us to disagree on specifics.

My compliments to you and everyone else on the thread who has argued with something better then 'you is stupid, chairboy'.  The quote I posted is something I find very interesting, not just a cheap shot.  I really think that it's true, and I'm confident enough in it that I'm comfortable engaging in debate about it.

[midnight Target]

"Without religion good people will do good things and evil people will do evil things. To get good people to do evil things--that takes religion (sometimes, or a reasonable facsimile thereof)."

There... that should satisfy those intent on picking fly **** from pepper.