Originally posted by lada
You know whats most funny, that only western europe were Christians, rest were Orthodox or pohans.
"Orthodox"-- whether Eastern, Greek, or Russian -- IS christian. ("of christ"). I'm not familiar with "pohan" -- help me out. Whom does this term refer to?
Originally posted by lada
Im not fooling myself. lets see Europian constitution. When godlovers call for integrating christian roots into it, it were deny and nobody gave a chit..[/B]
Does a constitutional vote make something true? If so, then was racial discrimination, whch was legal in the Reich, a honest and just policy?
Also, note I never said Europe was a christian region. I said the influence of christianity is unmistakable and pervasive. The very ability to say that something is true regardless of personal opinion is an appeal to a morally higher, permanent standard -- and that is a concept obviously esposed by faith.
Originally posted by lada
man at 15st. cen. did die in name of god about 400 000 only here in lill Czech...[/B]
Although I've read a lot of european history, I must admit to only shallow familiarity with the renaissance balkans. I recall this was an era of Ottoman influence -- are you claiming that these people died only because of religion? While both sides fought "in the name of" their god, it seems to me that the clashes were driver more by geography and political powergrabbing.
In a similar way, the 30yrs war had religious overtones, between nominally catholic and nominally protestant factions. In reality, the war was driven by the attempt made by the "Holy Roman Emperor" (and he ws neither holy, roman, nor emperor -- see what I mean) to assert political power., countered by the German princelings who wanted to continue with control. those princes switched faiths by political expedience, and expected their people to do the same. Magdesburg's 30k were slaughtered by mercenaries who could/would not be controlled, adn although religious overtones were present the war's historical cause was political rather than religious.
And about numbers -- Stalin accounted for at least tens of millions before the war, and the war itself -- triggered by Hitler -- killed over 100 million worldwide.
Originally posted by lada
Actualy it were kinds and Queens who made propgress in live of poeple, like mandatory education for children and so on.
You can name some examples, when church use power for goodness of normal people ?...[/B]
1) Mandatory education came about through reformers, some of whom were royal and some who were not. All were influenced, however, by Christian values of altruism, selflessness, and justice.
These values came from somewhere -- from the Celts? No, those vlaues weren't evident in any history of that people. Maybe from the Romans, except they were powerful slaveholders whose values only extended to their class, not to everyone. No, those values are an explicit part of Christianity.
2) Too numerous to mention all, but I'll try. Mother Teresa's a modern example of a giving tradition that spans all of Christianity.
A) Antislavery reformers in Britain and the US were devout Christians. (Oh, and to head off the comment -- Slaveholders had to ignore the teachings of christ; Paul's advice to slaves in roman times addresses a social reality, it never says slavery is good.)
B) Medical healthcare all over the third world, paid for and sponsored by christian organizations. Doctors and nurses, capable of enormous earnings, leave their comfortable homes and forgo wealth to GIVE care to those who otherwise would have none.
C) relief organizations all over the world, like world vision and compassion international, support underpriviledged peoples. they pay for community development, education for children, health care, and famine acute relief. America is uncomfortably religious for european tastes, but the average american religious donor gives more away to people he'll never meet than any other demographic in the world.
D) Christian medical groups go all over the world, donating teaching at medical colleges and delivering care to the impoverished on short term trips.
Originally posted by lada
And thing you didnt get about Iraq.
When somebody who is "Christian" going to Liberate country where 70% are muslims with words " Freedom is gift given to us by God" it particulary smell even for atheists.
Another liberalization in name of God rights... ohh well... i trough that we live in 21st. cen... and not 16st. cen.
Churches had their own part in history of Europe, but it seems to be over. [/B]
GWB spoke those words from his heart, not for the entire country. Leave the political rhetoric aside -- a few posts agao you were claiming opposition to the invasion because it resulted in 25k deaths. Are you now saying it was wrong because GWB said the word "God"? And I'm pretty sure he also said something like, God, however we may worship him....
and about your parting shot -- you've missed part of my point. The influence of Christianity is far from gone in europe, even if it only lives on in moral and scientific attitudes.
