Will Kerry run YOU off the road?

[Curval]

Aha...but lazs, I'm an INVESTOR.  In the tradition of free enterprise and capitalism I have invested in a product that will benefit you and millions of other American big block owners.  You will breathe easier and drive cheaper.  It is all to help you....and me.  This is free enterprise I am talking about...you show me where Azure Dynamics has cost you a cent.

Forget Kerry and his politics.  Embrace what I am saying.

Trust me man, you'll be better off.  

The only downside is that you won't think you look quite so cool...and your engine noise won't scare away little old ladies with weak hearts.

You seem to think that hybrids etc are a thing of the future.  You are wrong.  They are here, now.  You just won't even consider them unless they make alot of noise and go real fast.

[mauser]

Originally posted by john9001
i don't like Kerry , but i have to go with curval on this, i don't need 400 HP and a 5000# car to go to the super mkt to pick up a 12 pack of beer and a couple of steaks.

BTW when i was young and stupid i did have cars that went "brum brum" and smoked tires, then i grew up.

I agree with everyone else here in that we'll need to cut dependency on Mideast oil eventually, sooner the better.  I like the hydrogen fuel cell system.  However, I do not agree with forcing people to live the way you want them to live.  See my sig.  Although you might not see a need for something, that doesn't mean you must legislate it to death.  That includes guns, fast cars, fast boats, fast planes, even things like big honking SUVs.  At first I had the same feeling you do about SUVs.  Why are people buying them just for tooling around city streets?  So that they can be safer than the poor occupants in the little import car they just crushed in a head on?  But thinking it over a bit, why should I infringe on what car they choose to drive?  That would be like them infringing on my choice of firearm.  Or where I live.   So I don't worry about what other people drive anymore.   I do worry about how stupid certain drivers are though.  

Personally, I wanted a VW Jetta with their TDI (Turbo Direct Injection - Diesel) engine.  Great mileage (40's I think - still not as good as gas/electric).  Their dealer didn't have it at the time so I missed out and got a normal gas-engined Jetta instead.   Recently I saw and read news reports of some guys using used cooking oil with some additives to run diesel engines.  It's called Biodiesel http://www.biodiesel.org/.  

I must read more on the current state of hydrogen power in cars.  What will change besides not having to fill up?  Will it be "my" car or will they all be leased?  I think when you can get a car for about $10k-$15k (about the range of a baseline Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla) then it'll be accepted that much faster.  

mauser

[AKIron]

Originally posted by mauser
I must read more on the current state of hydrogen power in cars.  What will change besides not having to fill up?
mauser

You will always have to "fill up". With what just depends on the technology. The Hy-Wire being developed by GM posted earlier in this thread has compressed hydrogen tanks and at 5,000 psi (current configuration) have a range of approximately 200km. Well, they don't specify that exactly but it is alluded to.

[lazs2]

Ok... do you own one?   why don't I see em on the road?

If they are here now and cheap and practical and reliable then why does kerry need 50 cents a gallon on fuel to get us out of conventional vehicles?

Invest all you want... I probly own stock in some group that is involved with hybrids myself.... that doesn't mean I want to force people into em.

You claim I will be better off if i throw all my guns into the ocean too... seems giving up something is allways your path to being better off.

No problem tho... if they are as good as you claim and the fact that hybrids here by the likes of honda are not doing what they claim...well.... maybe honda just doensn't know how to build cars.   maybe if we forced em?

maybe azure dynamics is the only manufacturer who knows how to build cars...  

I told you that I am not against them competing in the market place.... you tell me that they are better and cheap and cheaper to run and reliable...

What's the problem?  

I hope they work great and are cheapern dirt.   If so... they will take their rightful place as the dominant manufacturer sooner rather than later.

What would you be willing to do to help "prod" them along?   To "prod" us into buying them?   tax breaks?   confiscatory taxes for those who didn't drive em?   maybe jail time for fossil fuel burners?   What?

Oh.... And I look cool no matter what I do.

lazs

I

[lazs2]

and john... if you had 5000 lb cars with 400 hp then you never did know what it is all about.   You wouldn't know what is involved and so just sit on your fat butt and drink your beer and eat your steak...

 Hot rods are beyond you... is that your girlfriend calling?   Better get those steaks on before she decides that you are too grown up for meat and beer eh?

lazs

[J_A_B]

Some people are so dense.

America isn't about what you need.  If need was all that mattered we'd all be living in tiny apartments with few creature comforts surrounded by out-dated technology.  

Hmm that sounds like some other countries I can think of.  



America is about what you want  and being able to attain it.


You don't need that 400 HP car as a daily driver--but if you want it then that's your right because this is the USA.  


The Socialist-leaning Liberals would of course change all that because they don't understand the difference between need and want .  The entire POINT of the "American Dream" is to move beyond having what you need and getting what you want .

So...I can get an underpowered, unreliable, unsafe, overly complex car for only 65 grand?   Geez....that is exactly WHY the hybrids don't sell yet--the technology is not mature.   You can get an underpowred unreliale unsafe tin-can gas car for like 1/6 that or less and have the bonus of being able to work on it yourself with normal tools.  Mass transit is not a viable alternative--it has been proven again and again that people HATE mass transit and will not use it unless they HAVE to. Of course the socialist-leaning people would force people to use it because to them, what people WANT is irrevelant.

Yet....I don't see any world leaders driving around in little tin-can Honda Hybrid POS junkmobiles all the time.  Why can't they lead by example?  Oh wait, their precious life is actually worth something so they need their 8 MPG Mercedes that can survive a hit from an anti-tank missle while cruising in ultimate luxury....but us ordinary peons...well we must not matter.


Some of the Socialist-leaning people might not understand, but Lazs is correct.  The technology needs to mature before the public will accept it.


For the record I drive a full-size 4 door sedan that gets about 23 MPG.  Small cars like Hondas are unsafe for the road.  

J_A_B


EDIT--Note that I am not blaming any particular political party, just a specific mindset.

[Curval]

The problem, specifically in the United States, is what I have been trying to tell you all day.  There is very little DEMAND in the US.  The reason is that Americans are so in love with gas guzzling big block beasts that the market is very limited right now.

So, this particular company decided to stay away from the consumer market and sell to large fleet owning companies, such as Puralator and the London taxis.  If it works...and the signs are very very positive, then you might see alot of them very soon.

Of course you will snicker and point just like the sand kicking bully.  But what happened to that guy at the end of the story?  If I recall he caught an ass-whoopin.

[lazs2]

My Lincoln Town car is getting 23-24 MPG and my grand daughter is very safe in it.   It is like driving your lazyboy.   I have satalite radio.  

I drive my hot rods any time I don't have to take people.    All of my faint hearted friends and relatives seem to show reluctance at riding with me in them anyway.   Oddly... they like the Lincoln.

lazs

[Curval]

JAB...I am so far from being a frigging socialist it isn't funny.  Typical though that you immediately do the pigion holing exercise as soon as you enter this thread.

Lets say I WANT a needle full of heroin a day man?

Oddly the land of the free has made that illegal.  Why is that?

[lazs2]

wait a minute curval...  Are you saying that there is no demand for cars that are cheap and don't use hardly any fuel and that it is the fault of big bloclk classic car owners?  Makes you sound like you llive on a tiny little isalnd somewhere and know nothing about Americans.

If there is no demand then it means the product is no good.

What would you do to create a demand?

I would make the product better.   Seems you would outlaw competition... that seems pretty socialist to me.

But maybe I am wrong.... what would you do?   Why is there no "demand" if the product is so good?   Because they look silly?   you must have the answer... spit it out.

Oh... and so far as I am concerned.... drugs should be legal but any employer has the right to fire anyone on drugs and if you have drugs in your system I don't want you to be on the road with me.

lazs

[J_A_B]

"There is very little DEMAND in the US. The reason is that Americans are so in love with gas guzzling big block beasts that the market is very limited right now. "

Maybe you should look up how many "big block" cars are sold by the major automakers.    That's right, barely any.


There is little demand because you have to pay 50-65 thousand for a hybrid car that is no better than a junky $10,000 gas car and is in some says worse.  As the technology matures it will become cheaper, and better.   Instead of 75 HP $55,000 Honda hybrids they'll develop 200 HP full-size Hybrids that sell for 25,000....and THEN people will buy them.

Noody is saying that we refuse to accept new technology.  We are ONLY saying that we don't want to be force-fed immature tech that is inferior to what we already have.  Noody wants to take a step backwards!  I'll happily buy a fuel-cell or even a Hybrid once it is as good--or even close--to the car I drive now.


"Lets say I WANT a needle full of heroin a day man? Oddly the land of the free has made that illegal. Why is that?"

Because it is impossible to use it and remain a responsible citizen.  Red Herring and totally unrelated issue.


And....why do you think I'm calling *you* a socialist?  I don't think I mentioned you specifically anywhere in my post.  Only now am I responding directly to you Curval.  While you may not be a socialist, you may well agree with a socialist perspective on some issues.  Which is good in a way even if I disagree; at least it means you're making up your own mind instead of just following some party line like some individuals do.  I don't much care for political parties either.

This issue, for me, is going to determine who don't I vote for.  I'm glad someone posted it because I hadn't seen it and I was previously undecided.  I dnno who I WILL vote for just yet, but the list just got smaller.   I may boycott the presidential race for lack of someone I really like.


J_A_B

[Curval]

Where on earth did I say that I would outlaw the competition?

While it might back up your argument that I am a socialist it has no basis in fact at all.

JAB- call them big blocks, oversized SUVs, whatever...I was using that as a point against lazs, who is a big block kind of guy.  I really meant all gas guzzlers, not just big blocks.  

You guys are focused on the cost of cars being built from scratch.  None of you guys looked at the link I put up.  The kits are made for existing cars.  They haven't been targeted at the joe consumer for the reasons mentioned.  If they take off in the large fleet owning companies they will come down to consumers very quickly.

Now...you dismiss my ponit about heroin as being a red-herring.  Fact is that sooner or later we are going to see hybrid and alternative fuel source cars.  Why?  We have laws that limit emissions?  Why?  If I want to drive around in a non-standard emission car I could be pulled over and arrested?  Why?  I would be driving it in the land of the free, where wants are more important than needs.

If I am gay and WANT to get married to another man I cannot do so.  Funny that...many of the same people who refuse any sort of restrictions on firearms or cars feel that it is perfectly okay to legislate against a WANT that lots of gay people have.

[Steve]

The problem, specifically in the United States, is what I have been trying to tell you all day. There is very little DEMAND in the US. The reason is that Americans are so in love with gas guzzling big block beasts that the market is very limited right now.

Curval, with respect sir, you are wrong.  There are many business that are dependent on vehicles, mine included.  I'd use any alternate form of fuel if it was cheaper than gas in my comapny vehicles.  Slightly over 10% of my gross income goes straight into the gas tanks.


Edit: providing the original purchase price of the vehicle(s) is not cost prohibitive.

[Curval]

I'm not wrong.  Check out the link.  Your company simply hasn't done enough investigation or isn't serious about spending the money right now to upgrade their fleet.  Take a look.

To prove this you talk about the purchase price of the vehicle .  It is a kit fitted onto existing vehicles that I am talking about.

[J_A_B]

I read the link in the first post.  If there was a second link later in I may have missed it dueu to jumping into the thread when it was already on the second page.  I'm about to go out and I'll look for a second link when I get home.


I maintain that most people do not really CARE what powers their car.   Like I said....give me a fuel-cell car or a hybrid that is as good as what I drive now for the same price, and I'll happily switch.   The technology will get there.

My car is the sort of car environmentalistis dislike....big and V-8.  Yet--it gets better mileage than most of the "economy" cars of the 1970's.  That is my basic point--technology improves with time.   The Hybrids and fuel-cell cars I've yet seen just aren't ready yet.  Give them a few more years.


J_A_B