I hope the first perk plane gets here soon (populations skewed wrong)

[Jimdandy]

cc sorry for misunderstanding <S>

 

Originally posted by Beurling:
I think you misunderstood me. the first part of my post was firmly tounge in cheek.

I would never fly a 1c why ? I think they suck performance wize. Im not a fan of any f4 unless it has crosses on it  

The niki saw lots of service killing b29's over japan.

There is always a faction of plane haters.
Who like to knock others choice of ride.
Calling them dweebs etc. I was making light of this.

I  think puting the 1c as a perk is a good idea.
Its a silly idea to have a perk system without a reward.

EYE

[SKurj]

Hmm so the chog is gonna be perked just so people have something to cash in their perk points for??

eeewww not so sure i like that reasoning, but.....

AKskurj

[Pyro]

Perks are a way to balance the arena, not so much a means of classifying planes.  How many were produced or what its combat record was is not relevant.  Some planes intended to be perks may not need to be while others that weren't intended to be may end up getting perked.  Right now, the F4U-1C is accounting for about 20% of all kills in the arena.  I don't want to push the score values any further so perking it is about the only option left.  I don't really like the idea of making a carrier plane unavailable from the carrier.



------------------
Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

[AKDejaVu]

For the sake of balance pyro, you should make it unavailable from the carrier.

Why is someone going to want to spend their perk points on an aircraft that is out-performed by so many standard aircraft in the arena?  The only thing it has going for it is 4 hispanos.

AKDejaVu

[Nash]

Yah - *nobody* gonna spend thier perk points onna C... so this perty much rids this plane from ever seein' the skys of AH again. I know it makes alotta you guys happy... but I got a bad feelin' about the whole thing.

Complain about it loud and long enough, and everyone flocks to it because gee - it must be some ultimate magical plane, et voila, it gets perked. It aint gonna end with the Chog, I reckon... What's the next target, fellas?

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Nash:

Complain about it loud and long enough, and everyone flocks to it because gee - it must be some ultimate magical plane, et voila, it gets perked. It aint gonna end with the Chog, I reckon... What's the next target, fellas?

Most probable: N1K2.

Not that I say it should or not should be perked, its that it is seen in dozens right now (At least I am seeing them a lot lately). And after (if) the Chog is perked, the N1K2 will be the plane of choice for most of the Quakedweebs in the Main. Maybe I am wrong, but with so much niks on the main it can be the next choice.

If that happens, and after it...mostly none. All the rest of the planes have really serious drawbacks to level their pros.

 Spit IXs are slower and have 2 cannons (hispanos,still, but only 2 and with little ammo clip).

 Fw190s are hard to fly and survive in. The A8 is a pig and the A5 is as fast as a Spit IX (so, it is damned slow).

 Typhoons have 4 hispanos.Still doesnt turn too well, and if the torque comes back and if the Roll thing gets fixed (take a look into the Rollrate thread in Aircraft&Vehicles forum) it wont be easy to fight in, either.

 P51s are fast but cant turn.

 Fw190D9 will be faster, but will turn even less.

 Me109G10 requres really good shooting and pacience. It will be never a massively used plane.

I still think that even if the Chog is erased from the CV planeset it will be massively used. The problem is not the plane itself, the problem is the 4 turbolasers it carries, they allow for gameish flying and tactics, mostly like the N1K2 has with its amazing E-keeping, fast turning and 4 cannons (the problem is not the cannon itself, its that it is on board of a thing that can bear them on target on half-a-second)...

So the plane of choice for most of the quakekids on the Main arena is the flying lazerbird, followed by the N1K2 "Japanese spinning wonder"  . If those guys can't fly none of those two ,they will have to grab a normal plane and ACTUALLY learn flying ACM and Skills.

I dont think that is bad for AH. And I am sincere.

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 01-06-2001).]

[Thrawn]

I imagine everyone will fly the nik, until that gets perked, then the spit.

[Vermillion]

Well, at least I don't think I have to worry about my ride ever getting perked.

The much overlooked YAK!

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[Torgo]

With a planeset this big one AC with 20% of the kills is a LOT.


A lot of the CHog sorties are jabo. And now many of the CHog sorties are Carriers. The N1K1 isn't CV-capable.

Yes, the N1K1 will then be the AC with the most Air-to-Air Kills if the CHog is perked, but in no way, shape, or form will you ever see as many of them in the arena as you see CHogs now.

I feel the CHog sorties after it's perked will be split pretty evenly among the DHog, Niki, FW, Jug, Typhoon, Hellcat, etc.

Making for a more interesting and fun arena.

Look, the Chog was a CV plane. If it's in the arena, it should be CV enabled. Disabling them from CVs seems far more arbitrary to me than perking them.

[Torque]

 

Originally posted by Pyro:
Perks are a way to balance the arena, not so much a means of classifying planes.  How many were produced or what its combat record was is not relevant.  Some planes intended to be perks may not need to be while others that weren't intended to be may end up getting perked.  Right now, the F4U-1C is accounting for about 20% of all kills in the arena.  I don't want to push the score values any further so perking it is about the only option left.  I don't really like the idea of making a carrier plane unavailable from the carrier.

Pyro does this mean the Perk system will always be changing since the percent of kills determines what is perked and what is not? After every Tour will the kill ratio be reviewed to determined the next Tour's perked AC? Basing the system on todays PAC terrain isn't that a little bias. What happens when ETO terrain is default and everyone starts to fly Yaks or Stangs so they can outrun most AC to make it safely home for those Perky points? will the Yak/Stang then be classified as perk when they account for a higher percentage of kills in MA? This Perkage system will change the whole MA atmosphere no more friendly AC dropping 10k to clear your six since they'll be too worried about perkage. Perkage will cause more swarming then ever since no one will want to engage unless they know that they will have 20 AC to back them up. But we will see.

Oh I hear Fatty yelling "Just don't perk the Buzz beer!"



[This message has been edited by Torque (edited 01-06-2001).]

[Pongo]

Great experiment for the perk system. It can be unperked if the result is not worth it.

[Lance]

Gotta agree with Nash and like-minded others on this one.  I'd like to see the 1c stay un-perked for a few tours.  Let the carrier newness wear off, let people have tangible reasons to care about perk points (i.e. planes to spend them on) and then see if the 1c is still accounting for such a large number of kills.  If it is, then do what you gotta do.

[hazed-]

citabria is right about this system failing slightly in that once the f4c is perked it will obviously become less popular.so will this mean the very next tour it becomes unperked?
Im all for perking aircraft that cause imballances but based on popularity wont work in the long term.will perking be indefinate or for a few tours?
having said this i too am sick of fighting f4c's all the time but only because of the damn quick death i seem to get from them and the fact that fighting duels with f4's around leads to quick deaths from them swooping into furballs etc.This is because we see too many but when they are gone the next plane will take its place..im betting more niki's.
this is going to get tricky.


hazed

[-towd_]

lord give it a rest the tubolaser bird is finnaly gonna get controled . and any thing you say in disagreement is just so much whining , ( right back at you ) the numbers on the plane bear that our . the c hog has been the scurge of this game since the day of its arrival .still kills a main battle tank in a ho after how many versions?
most of you dweebs have perfected gang bangin nubys in a hord to keep a constant supply of perk point so why gripe . just get in the air with your 20 squad mates and go attack 5 guys trying to defend a base rather than just change sides like most do when the gang tactics start. this place is like war birds was when the exodus started . a few old hands that have learned to quake the flight model and lots of very temperary nubys. sad but true

best thing they ever did perkin that bird. now make the osti gun killable from above by somthin other than a c hog , give the squads their own arena and you got a cool game on you hands.

[flakbait]

Interesting little debate. The problem as I've seen it, and heard about, are the Hispano cannons. Not that they're terribly bad, just a little bent outa shape. I've never been a fan of "combined ammo" since it really messes up ballistics, damage, and kill potential. Mausers, as I understand it, mostly use HE rounds; so in AH they're HE rounds. Hispano guns were usually loaded with a 1:1 AP and HE rounds (IIRC). So we get AP-HE combo shells, with the ballistics of the AP round.

As it stands, the F4U-1C is a great plane. In essence, it's a typical A model Hog with the six 50's swaped out for quad 20 mils. In my mind, this makes it a perfectly good plane to fly. However, the combined ammo bit is getting to the point of perking an aircraft that shouldn't get perked. Yes, the Hispano cannon was and still is a marvel of aircraft gun technology. So, we come down to the old "Hispano-whiner" debate. What's wrong and how to fix it.

Here's what I've figured out. Combo shells are a bad thing, the AP-HE shells are giving Hispano-armed aircraft a very high advantage, and this could be (relatively) easily fixed. How? Ditch the AP-HE rounds and go with either stock AP or stock HE rounds. I clearly remember Pyro, HiTech, and even (egads) Hotseat over at WBs saying that they would not model player-selectable ammo loads. It would chew up far too much time.

That's the only sure-fire way to solve the gun problems. I remember several people here asking for HE-mine shells for the Mauser. Not going to happen by the looks of it. It boils down to what we're looking at right now. Perking an aircraft that has two advantages; combined ammunition load of AP-HE rounds, and the fact it is more maneuverable than a Typhoon. Yes I am dragging that old gun debate out of the grave. The problem still exists, the only thing that's going to change is the aircraft which carry these so-called superguns will cost you points.

Some solution  

-----------------------
Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School
"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think God wants to hear from me right now.
I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was Chiggy von Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond