I don't think this will be in "The Armed Citizen"

[Holden McGroin]

But you missed that the controls you advocate did not work.....

[FUNKED1]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Is this considered a punch?

 

I laughed so hard I got hiccups.

[lazs2]

vulcan... I have no problem with gun owners having to pass a safety class.

There is no law that requires you to lock your car.   There is no law that says that you are liable for an accidental running over of an infant and... if you were being as safe as possible or reasonable then it would indeed be an accident.   There are no locks or licence on 5 gal  buckets however.

The reason cars are licenced is for revenue purpose or to insure that they are roadworthy... or... to collect fines or fees more readily.. they are a revenue scam.    

RPM... yes.. we know how you feel about the NRA but it is impossible to know why since you seem to know so little about it.  We also know that you embrace every liberal politician or idea on this BB so my guess is... they all hate the NRA so.... like a good little liberal sheep.... you to too..  Baaaaaaaa.

lazs

[bustr]

Vulcan,

You might as well tell us to bend over and give our lives to the government with your trolls that try to edge into gun registration by way of licensing for automobiles. Driving a car is a privlage since the roads are maintained by the government. You are using a service implemented and serviceded by them out of your taxes.

Your life is owned by you and not the governemnt. Your right and duty to protecting your life is non-infringable by the government. Your life is not a privilage granted you by the governement. Once you give that up and let the government decide who can or who cannot be trusted to protect their God given life, then you are describing any totalitarian regim that has or exists on this planet.

Registration, licensing and laws do not stop unstable persons from comitting horrendis acts of violence upon the general population. Today in London a gent walked up to another and in front of passersby hacked his head off with an axe on the side walk. http://www.thisislondon.com/news/articles/17262526?source=Evening%20Standard&ct=5

When the "It won't happen to me lottery fails" and the nutcase has you by the throat, what have you done your whole life to prepair for surviveing that "one watermelon happened" moment other than make fun of people who take the gift of their own life more seriously than you?  

Vulcan maybe you should have to enter a ring with a 250 LB SAS combat instructor and prove your fitness to survive rather than trying to persuade everyone to let the government protect you from them. If you come out alive, then you get a tatoo on your forhead "I'm a Survivor!" before you tell others to give up their rights (licensing) to defend themselves. Even if you do, do these ideot trolls for chits and giggles.

[Toad]

In London they'll soon be spreading their butter with their fingers.

Back in early prehistoric times axes were specifically designed for killing. So were the flint knives.

Sad, but it has to happen.

[lazs2]

bustr... that is well put.  I think what is really happening with vulcan and others is a total lack of empathy for other humans..  they feel that they are young and fit and survivors so let the rest eat cake.

They can't see past their current youth and health... they don't empathize with the real people who are small or crippled or old or women.   Like all liberals they love humanity but hate and fear people.    So long as they are the strongest... they want to keep it that way... they feel that getting rid of firearms keeps their edge..  the hypocrits will of course change their tune as they age or circumstances change.

They have never been around real criminals and sociopaths and feel that they are not going to ever be.   They don't even understand the criminal mind or what it is capable of.

plus... the chicks they date wouldn't like it if they were pro gun.

lazs

[beet1e]

Yes, it was in today's news - a man with an axe attacked and beheaded another man in North London. Just think, if he'd had a gun, he could have stood outside a Church and shot seven people.

Mr. Toad! I'm sure there are quite a few fatalities in bathtubs, showers etc. But the difference is that where I come from, taking a bath or shower is considered an essential part of everyday life by millions. YMMV as you live in the country and all. ;)

So in that sense, bathtub deaths, or deaths resulting from slipping on a bar of soap in the shower are unavoidable - unless we give up baths/showers - then we could do what rural Americans do, and take a bath standing in a barrel in the middle of the street, as in the cowboy movies!

On the other hand, guns are unnecessary. I have two Californian friends who own guns. Lazs is one, the other is CPP who lives near Oxnard. He has owned a pistol 15 years and has never even taken it out of its box. Really useful - NOT.

Consider this parallel - and GTOra2 would agree with this. (He claimed to have added me to his ignore list 2 years ago, but I know he's really in peekaboo mode - Hi GTO!) If you had a friend who was dying of cancer, well that's too bad. Cancer is an occupational hazard of life. It might well get me in the fullness of time, just as it got my dad. But then consider someone who is dying of AIDS. Such a tragic way to go and (in the western world where we have condoms and education about the dangers of drugs/sharing needles) it's an entirely avoidable cause of death. That makes it more tragic, IMO - especially as many victims are cut down way before their time.

The gun that killed the two year old (subject of this thread) was an unnecessary gun. No doubt the mother would agree with me on that.

[Nashwan]

bustr... that is well put. I think what is really happening with vulcan and others is a total lack of empathy for other humans.. they feel that they are young and fit and survivors so let the rest eat cake.

They can't see past their current youth and health... they don't empathize with the real people who are small or crippled or old or women. Like all liberals they love humanity but hate and fear people. So long as they are the strongest... they want to keep it that way... they feel that getting rid of firearms keeps their edge.. the hypocrits will of course change their tune as they age or circumstances change.

Lazs, our system not only produces less murder victims, it produces far less amongst the very old.

Homicide victims over 50:

US 2,125
E&W 118

Homicide victims over 70:

US 476
E&W 40

The US has about 5.5 times the population of England and Wales.

The UK figures are for 2000/01, subsequent years have estimates of Harold Shipman's totals over the last 30 years added in. Shipman's average has been estimated at around 9 per year, so that should be added to the earlier year's figures.


As for the lack of empathy, I think that's you. Note what you said earlier in the thread:

"If my, and all the other law abiding gun owners giving up their guns would have saved this child then I am sorry... I am not gonna do it. He is gonna have to die. "

[Toad]

Originally posted by beet1e
The gun that killed the two year old (subject of this thread) was an unnecessary gun. No doubt the mother would agree with me on that.

You're going to have to condense all this sentiment quite significantly or Hallmark won't be able to get it on to a card.

Let's see... maybe...

Buckets are great and so useful to
We need them to live, for the work that we do
Your kid drowned in one and that is just too bad
But we still need our buckets even though you are sad.


Work on it.... you could make millions.

[GtoRA2]

Thats talent Toad!!

[bustr]

Nashwan,

I have lived in the Berkeley Oakland area of California for 20 years now. I have been assaulted 3 times with knives. Shot at 2 times but was still young enough I beleived I could "handle myself" so I carried nothing and acted the stupidity of youth. When I got older, around 42 I had to begin conceled carry because of 6 shootings that happened in parking lots at night within a mile of where I worked. Ive had to brandish my side arm once to change a criminals mind about the knife he was hiding from me behind his back on the front steps of my home in Oakland in broad daylight.

If the woman needed the gun for reasons of self defence than thats her right and obligation to her own life. It is her job to protect her life and her childrens. If she was deficient for a moment, life is not fair, safe, nor do we get out of it alive. I'm sorry for the loss of the childs life. But too often now children are used to cover the personal bias and fear of those who would legislate all humane activity untill the point that we walk around in chains to ease the fears of a minority of the population. It is not a survival stratagey for our species to suddenly disarm itself because one of it's young succeeds in killing its self. That used to be called natural selection. The smart ones tended to pass on intellegence.

The woman made a mistake. She has to live with it for a life time. The child is dead. Children have been dieing for 45,000 years. If you have a problem with what happened, then learn it as a lesson of life and don't make that mistake. But no one has the right to attempt to play God and legislate cradle to grave for every human on this planet because they might make a mistake. The end of that road is  freedom "only" for the Elite minority who ultimatly ajudicates these legislated rules that will supposedly protect the majority from its mindless mistakes.

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
But you missed that the controls you advocate did not work.....

Did not work where? They're working fine in NZ and other countries cheers.

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by bustr
Vulcan,

You might as well tell us to bend over and give our lives to the government with your trolls that try to edge into gun registration by way of licensing for automobiles. Driving a car is a privlage since the roads are maintained by the government. You are using a service implemented and serviceded by them out of your taxes.

Your life is owned by you and not the governemnt. Your right and duty to protecting your life is non-infringable by the government. Your life is not a privilage granted you by the governement. Once you give that up and let the government decide who can or who cannot be trusted to protect their God given life, then you are describing any totalitarian regim that has or exists on this planet.

Hmmmm....

Originally posted by bustr
Nashwan,

I have lived in the Berkeley Oakland area of California for 20 years now. I have been assaulted 3 times with knives. Shot at 2 times but was still young enough I beleived I could "handle myself" so I carried nothing and acted the stupidity of youth. When I got older, around 42 I had to begin conceled carry because of 6 shootings that happened in parking lots at night within a mile of where I worked. Ive had to brandish my side arm once to change a criminals mind about the knife he was hiding from me behind his back on the front steps of my home in Oakland in broad daylight.

Interesting... in NZ, our goverment is elected by democratic processes. The policies they implement reflect the wishes of the people. Thus, many years ago when the population decided to restrict, license, and ensure a safe firearms environment laws were passed.

Henceforth I have never been threatened by a person wielding a knife nor firearm. Nor have I felt the need to carry one.

Its interesting that you talk about "totalitarian regim" when in essence you are laying down your right to have a situation that others may not necessarily want. I find it ironic how people such as yourself scream freedom with regards to firearms licensing/laws/etc when you often have quite different views of say drunk drivers, drugs etc. Although I do suspect some of the statements are nothing more than being melodramatic.

I do understand this womans need to protect herself, and own a firearm given the state of the USA these days with regards to crime. However my point is simple, does a little enforced gun education infringe on peoples freedom? Would it save lives?

In the meantime, I enjoy the freedom of not having to carry a firearm when I go anywhere, I enjoy not having to worry about being shot or stabbed. I enjoy not concerning myself that my son will never "accidentally" shot himself, myself, or my wife using a firearm inadequately stored in our house.

Guess it sucks to be living where you do

[Toad]

Originally posted by Vulcan
In the meantime, I enjoy the freedom of not having to carry a firearm when I go anywhere, I enjoy not having to worry about being shot or stabbed. I enjoy not concerning myself that my son will never "accidentally" shot himself, myself, or my wife using a firearm inadequately stored in our house.

I enjoy every single one of those as well.

And, I get to enjoy yet another which is just as sweet.



Or take a pistol out to the range and go plinking.

Guess it sucks to be living where you do

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by Toad

Is that a yellow lab? A friend of my brother was going to give one to some animal shelter cause he couldn't take care of it. I took it cause I heard bad things about the place and didn't want to see anything happen to her. We didn't have the room for her either(not to mention we were not supposed to have a dog in the apartment), but we managed to keep her hidden. Through friends we found this couple in the western part of the state that just lost a lab and were thrilled to take her. They have a farm and she has lots of room to run. I think she was a yellow lab, she looked just like your dog and she had webbed feet. The guy that bought her paid close to a grand for her. Anyway, saw the pic and it reminded me of her.