JG54 in the CT, good or bad?

[Sp4de]

DOLLY PARTON!

[Eagler]

they have a phobia about evening up the sides

then again if the sides were even, they'd lose the 3 to 1 and see how well they really fly - hmm, makes sense now  

ps

it just ain't the 54, many have the phobia

[Grits]

The problem is "historical" squads that refuse to split up to even things out. It doesnt have to be literally numbers even, sometimes one highly skilled guy can even things up while the numbers are not equal. When Shane or ManeTMP or Leviathan are in the CT they are worth an extra 3-5 guys (or more) for their side so you have to consider the relative skill levels too not just the raw numbers.

Its JG54 now, but before that it was VMF312, before that it was 78th FG, before that it was JG3, its not a new problem that has come as a result of JG54. Some squads in the past like VF17, VF27, and now JG2, were willing to switch, which is why you will largly see most of JG2 flying allies.

I think the axis squads were outnumbered for so long (and they were) that now they want to extract their pound of flesh to get even. The only problem is there is almost nobody left in the arena to punish and the ones that are there dont stay long.

[VWE]

Thanks guys for your input, I really do not know personally how the comunity outside of the CT regulars feels about JG54 but I do appriciate ya'll taking the time to post your feedback.

[CPorky]

I'm not sure what squad it was, but the last time I was in the CT a squad was all flying 10k higher than anyone else and in a pack of no less than 12 guys.

It ruined the gameplay in there, 1s and 2s aren't going to have much of a chance vs that. Its one of the reasons I don't fly in there, too many of the 'big fish, small pond' attitudes. Again, I don't know what squad it was...

I like the idea of the CT, but the numbers are pitifully low.

[6GunUSMC]

CT??? ZZZzzzZZZzzzZZZzz  wake me up when something exciting like golf comes on...

[detch01]

I don't fly the CT because the numbers are generally very low and the sides very imbalanced. Couple that with the preponderance of megamouths in the arena and it ain't a whole bunch of fun being there.  The last time 4 times I was in there 3 of the four times one side outnumbered the other by at least 4 to 1 and the high number side used up a lot of text buffer with insults.
Whether that can be ascribed to a specific squadron I don't know - I'm not in there enough to judge.
There used to be a time when side imbalance was a detail because most CT players had the self-control to let a good 1v1 or 1v2 fight alone until it was over, but that was then (2 years ago, give or take). The behaviour I see now every time I go in there is pig-piling on singles even when there a fair number of people online.

When you crap on the carpet regular, don't be surprised if before too long you live alone.

asw

[SuperDud]

Yea, a real turn off for me was having 15 guys in the CT only to find them all at 10-15k??? Don't know what group or persons it was. Also as soon as the cons saw me, I was BnZed by no less than 4 at once. Later, in a 109, I ran into a P51 with a lot of alt on me. He dove in blew his E and then dove away? Even in a dogfight at coE he has all the adv except in climb vs my 109G10? Then as he ran off a P47 came in and did the same thing? I felt like I was in the MA. I ended up just augering and leaving. I had the impression the CT was more of the old style, dogfighting with some honor type arena. And it's been said I know, but all I found was a mini MA:(

[oboe]

I dunno, seems to me like it was always the arena for those who wanted a little more realism (e.g. Axis v Allies, historically-matched planeset, reduced radar and icons).   Tight-flying squad ops are part of that style I think, or at least can be.   You get a Axis squad of 8-10 in the arena that rarely gets above 20 ppl, and their coordinated tactics are simply going to make it hard for single flyers to enjoy themselves.

But, what would've really happened in WWII?   Certainly a lone plane would've been pounced on  by a higher, well-organized squadron.    

I don't get into much trash talking, but I'm more disturbed by GVs who spawn camp runways in a low-populated arena.

I think if we could tone down the trash talking and find a medium sized Allied squad to oppose JG54's domination of the arena, the single flyers might have a better experience and come back and fly the CT more often.

[humble]

I'm not sure what squad it was, but the last time I was in the CT a squad was all flying 10k higher than anyone else and in a pack of no less than 12 guys.

This sums up what I see just about anytime I've logged into the CT....

It's a combination of two factors...all the "bad guys" being in a gaggle and the limited total numbers. In the MA 10 or even 15 guys in a squad dont imbalance anything....especially since there are so many other squads to balance things if they want.

"historically" the CT was where you went for "old school" combat...things were natually capped at 1 on 3 at most...I normally told the guy taking off to "call the fight" once he got up and got some speed. Most of the time (but not always) a good 1 on 1 was allowed to finish. As a general rule sides were balanced and folks switched as needed. Bases were rarely porked or captured...they existed as a framework for the fight. Everybody knows that 1 on 2 vs a pair of competent pilots is tough....if those two are truely winging then its even harder....so why the need to push things so far beyond any concept of a balanced enviorment?

[humble]

Originally posted by oboe
I dunno, seems to me like it was always the arena for those who wanted a little more realism (e.g. Axis v Allies, historically-matched planeset, reduced radar and icons).   Tight-flying squad ops are part of that style I think, or at least can be.   You get a Axis squad of 8-10 in the arena that rarely gets above 20 ppl, and their coordinated tactics are simply going to make it hard for single flyers to enjoy themselves.

But, what would've really happened in WWII?   Certainly a lone plane would've been pounced on  by a higher, well-organized squadron.    

I don't get into much trash talking, but I'm more disturbed by GVs who spawn camp runways in a low-populated arena.

I think if we could tone down the trash talking and find a medium sized Allied squad to oppose JG54's domination of the arena, the single flyers might have a better experience and come back and fly the CT more often.

You dont need to do anything but back off....it was common in both WW1 and even the 1st year of WW2 for the "squad ace" to take on a lone bandit....there are hundreds of such stories in the JG 26 memiors alone all the way up to the invasion (which obviously changed things alot). You want a 2 on 1 fine....but what benifit do you get from gangin the guy 1 on 10....???

[plank]

Originally posted by humble
but what benifit do you get from gangin the guy 1 on 10....???

You live

Only jesting, I'm always the first to switch to even sides. Unless of course, I failed to notice before someone else brought it to my attention.

[humble]

Still have a pulse:)....

Plank,

Dont know that we ever crossed paths in the CT....my recent experience (since I signed back up in 8 or 9/04) is very limited....mostly because it was identical to my previous experience in the beginning of 2004. I flew both sides and alot of my "distain" was for the checkertails if I recall correctly. They certainly were as bad as anyone else. The last couple times up the "verbal garbage" came from storch and truekill if memory is correct. I'm just trying to give an honest answer to the question raised. I'd fly the CT bout all the time (back when I was a trainer I dont think I ever flew the MA....just TA or CT). I'm not the worlds smartest flier...I dont grab the fastest plane or circle and gain 10k...I just point the nose to the biggerst dar and go. I dont care what plane the other guy is in or how much alt he has...or even if he's got friends. However, if you dont have some reasonable chance for a "quality encounter" why bother. 10 guys gaggling togeather with no target amazes me...

This is from a thread in CT forum I posted 6/15/03....

a SAD moment in the CT
Just logged intro the CT to find 11 guys landgrabbing...was literally 11 on 1 side and a single guy on the other just padding score...if I was in charge I'd ban em for a month


To me this was thebeginning of all this....

A sad day in the CT...
Can't believe I'd see 18+ players in the CT and zero action. Got one side landgrabbing in the NW...the other in the SE. Hope this isn't the coming state of afairs..the MA already is a total waste of time. I'd hate to see the CT go south also

(3/30/02)

This is nothing specific to JG54 or anyone in it...from my point of view it goes back along way....

BTW you'll find a post 11/25/03 that sums up what I feel the CT should be....

[oboe]

I agree humble.    Woulda been pretty foolish for a squad CO to order all flights down against a low bogey.

So large, organized squads help seed the CT with numbers, but their unsportsmanlike tactics and conduct are chasing people away.  That about sum up the situation?

[humble]

Originally posted by oboe
I agree humble.    Woulda been pretty foolish for a squad CO to order all flights down against a low bogey.

So large, organized squads help seed the CT with numbers, but their unsportsmanlike tactics and conduct are chasing people away.  That about sum up the situation?

Yes, I think it does...

Obviously in a real war ideally you'll vaporize your opponents with no loses to your side...but in a sim you need to provide some semblance of a "fair fight"....however it wasn't simply tactics...probably the best example ever was richtofen vs hawker...both sides let the two aces fight it out with no intervention. Now, the officer class on both sides came from a dueling tradition and the concept of "mano e mano" was strong...this continued thru the early stages of WW2 even though it wasnt "proper tactics"...

Things began to change early in the war over france when the germans got creamed (losing one of the top expertain of the time) in a fight vs some french hawk 75's...however it still continued up thru 43 on the western front (not in the east at all apparently)...