Author Topic: Here it is! assaultweaponswatch  (Read 2453 times)

Offline rabbidrabbit

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Here it is! assaultweaponswatch
« Reply #60 on: March 28, 2005, 06:37:04 PM »
Actually weasel, full auto is legal to own they are just  rather expensive due to supply and demand issues created by the NFA.  Figure anything will cost you 3k to start, goes up pretty fast from there.

Offline weaselsan

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« Reply #61 on: March 28, 2005, 06:39:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
See ... we can agree sometimes. You don't need gun bans, but rather more gun control on who gets to buy such weapons (mandatory safety training) and how these people store the weapons (gun safes, rules on transportation etc.).


LOL...am I reading this thread right? Do people think owning a fully automatic weapon (a machine gun) is legal ???

Offline weaselsan

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« Reply #62 on: March 28, 2005, 06:41:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Actually weasel, full auto is legal to own they are just  rather expensive due to supply and demand issues created by the NFA.  Figure anything will cost you 3k to start, goes up pretty fast from there.


LOL.. you better check your facts, full auto has been ilegal since the Thompson.

Offline SunTracker

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Here it is! assaultweaponswatch
« Reply #63 on: March 28, 2005, 06:42:02 PM »
Ok, heres how it has been so far-

(1) I post where a relatively cheap rifle can be bought
- Argument against it was that it is too expensive

(2) I post where a manual can be bought to convert it to automatic
-Argument against it is that it would be 'too hard'.

(3)I post where someone can take their AR15 to be converted to a belt fed machine gun
-Argument against it is that it would be too inaccurate

(4)I post about two drive-by shootings *this month* with AK-47s
-Argument against it is that the reporters and police didnt really mean AK-47.

Fascinating.

Weaselsan, you can own a full auto in the U.S. with the proper license.

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #64 on: March 28, 2005, 06:42:55 PM »
Weasel,

Fully automatic weapons are legal IF you have had the background check, fingerprints and pay the $200.00 transfer fee to the Feds. Clearance has to be obtained by the current owner from the Feds. before the transaction can be completed. Fully auto weapons are commonly called class 3. They are available and can be purchased. ALL (legal ones) are registered. It is illegal for an owner of a semi auto weapon to convert or "manufacture" a fully auto weapon. Ownership of the "parts" that would convert the weapon is not illegal. Using them would be.

BTW, that is THIS planet.  :p  :D  
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Offline weaselsan

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Here it is! assaultweaponswatch
« Reply #65 on: March 28, 2005, 06:46:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SunTracker
Ok, heres how it has been so far-

(1) I post where a relatively cheap rifle can be bought
- Argument against it was that it is too expensive

(2) I post where a manual can be bought to convert it to automatic
-Argument against it is that it would be 'too hard'.

(3)I post where someone can take their AR15 to be converted to a belt fed machine gun
-Argument against it is that it would be too inaccurate

(4)I post about two drive-by shootings *this month* with AK-47s
-Argument against it is that the reporters and police didnt really mean AK-47.

Fascinating.


I guess if you can't dazzle them with your brilliance...you baffle them with your Bull****.....Again... if an AK-47 is used in a crime it was illegal to own when they got there hands on it. Now if it makes you feel any better we can pass another law making it illegal to own again.

Offline weaselsan

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« Reply #66 on: March 28, 2005, 06:55:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
Weasel,

Fully automatic weapons are legal IF you have had the background check, fingerprints and pay the $200.00 transfer fee to the Feds. Clearance has to be obtained by the current owner from the Feds. before the transaction can be completed. Fully auto weapons are commonly called class 3. They are available and can be purchased. ALL (legal ones) are registered. It is illegal for an owner of a semi auto weapon to convert or "manufacture" a fully auto weapon. Ownership of the "parts" that would convert the weapon is not illegal. Using them would be.

BTW, that is THIS planet.  :p  :D  


You are referring to special needs license, ie Body guard to some  Arab Shiek. To get a license for a full auto it takes dang near an act of congress. You don't walk down to Buck's gun rack plunk down some cash wait your time and walk out with an AK-47.

Offline weaselsan

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« Reply #67 on: March 28, 2005, 06:59:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SunTracker
Ok, heres how it has been so far-

(1) I post where a relatively cheap rifle can be bought
- Argument against it was that it is too expensive

(2) I post where a manual can be bought to convert it to automatic
-Argument against it is that it would be 'too hard'.

(3)I post where someone can take their AR15 to be converted to a belt fed machine gun
-Argument against it is that it would be too inaccurate

(4)I post about two drive-by shootings *this month* with AK-47s
-Argument against it is that the reporters and police didnt really mean AK-47.

Fascinating.

Weaselsan, you can own a full auto in the U.S. with the proper license.


What would be facinating is after you caught the drive by shooters is them flashing their license to own AK-47's:rofl

Offline rabbidrabbit

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« Reply #68 on: March 28, 2005, 06:59:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SunTracker
Ok, heres how it has been so far-

(1) I post where a relatively cheap rifle can be bought
- Argument against it was that it is too expensive

(2) I post where a manual can be bought to convert it to automatic
-Argument against it is that it would be 'too hard'.

(3)I post where someone can take their AR15 to be converted to a belt fed machine gun
-Argument against it is that it would be too inaccurate

(4)I post about two drive-by shootings *this month* with AK-47s
-Argument against it is that the reporters and police didnt really mean AK-47.

Fascinating.




Come on sun, you are constantly mixing and twisting the facts to support the unsupportable while ignoring both observable fact and coherent counterarguements.  I don't mean this as an insult but I'll bet you voted for Kerry last year right?

How about debating facts with facts instead half truths?

Feel free to show how many legally owned machine guns were used in crimes.

I can save you the effort because the number is very close to zero over the last few decades.  Obviously full automatic weapons are not a problem at all.

The only place were you can have minimal traction is saying someone can obtain a semi auto and machine it to fire full auto.  Note that doing so is illegal.  Even there you will have little luck supporting your position.  There are very few examples of that in the last few decades.  The only one I can think of was those 2 heros in LA a few years ago.  Note that they fired nearly 3000 rounds over a half hour and hit what 1 person?

The root reason why you see what you see in the movies is its the movies.  It looks cool but does not actually hit much.  Remember, thats the movies not the real world.  Only idiots try to fire full auto.  Semi auto is much more productive.

Offline SunTracker

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« Reply #69 on: March 28, 2005, 07:35:36 PM »
http://www.ncpa.org/ba/ba102.html
Quote
The official Department of Defense definition of an assault rifle is one capable of both automatic fire (many shots per trigger pull) and semiautomatic (one shot per trigger pull). Automatic-fire weapons - machine guns - have been closely regulated since 1934.


Quote
A New York State Statistical Analysis Center study of homicides in 1993 in New York City found that assault weapons were involved in 16% of the homicides studied. The definition of assault weapons used was from proposed but not enacted State legislation that was more expansive than the Federal legislation. By matching ballistics records and homicide files, the study found information on 366 firearms recovered in the homicides of 271 victims. Assault weapons were linked to the deaths of 43 victims (16% of those studied).


http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/0900GUIC/Guns%20Used%20in%20Crime.htm

Offline weaselsan

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« Reply #70 on: March 28, 2005, 08:00:25 PM »
An assault weapon as defined by the State of New York.


Offline bustr

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« Reply #71 on: March 28, 2005, 08:10:02 PM »
SunTracker,

That website is using an out moded definition of assult rifle that includes shotguns, pistols, and rifles. Why not post the whole parts and not the minimal peice of the article that biases to your argument. The anti-gun lobby does this with every oped peice they release. Let your audience decide based on the whole information.

Below is from the web site SunTracker used for his 16% figure for use of assault rifles. Last 3 sections of the whole article bottom of the page.

http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/0900GUIC/Guns%20Used%20in%20Crime.htm

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How often are assault weapons used in crime?

Little information exists about the use of assault weapons in crime. The information that does exist uses varying definitions of assault weapons that were developed before the Federal assault weapons ban was enacted.

In general, assault weapons are semiautomatic firearms with a large magazine of ammunition that were designed and configured for rapid fire and combat use. An assault weapon can be a pistol, a rifle, or a shotgun. The Federal Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 bans the manufacture and sale of 19 specific assault weapons identified by make and manufacturer. It also provides for a ban on those weapons that have a combination of features such as flash suppressors and grenade launchers. The ban does not cover those weapons legally possessed before the law was enacted. The National Institute of Justice will be evaluating the effect of the ban and reporting to Congress in 1997.

In 1993 prior to the passage of the assault weapons ban, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF), reported that about 1% of the estimated 200 million guns in circulation were assault weapons. Of the gun tracing requests received that year by ATF from law enforcement agencies, 8% involved assault weapons.

Assault weapons and homicide

A New York State Statistical Analysis Center study of homicides in 1993 in New York City found that assault weapons were involved in 16% of the homicides studied. The definition of assault weapons used was from proposed but not enacted State legislation that was more expansive than the Federal legislation. By matching ballistics records and homicide files, the study found information on 366 firearms recovered in the homicides of 271 victims. Assault weapons were linked to the deaths of 43 victims (16% of those studied).

A study by the Virginia State Statistical Analysis Center reviewed the files of 600 firearms murders that occurred in 18 jurisdictions from 1989 to 1991. The study found that handguns were used in 72% of the murders (431 murders). Ten guns were identified as assault weapons, including 5 pistols, 4 rifles, and 1 shotgun.

Assault weapons and offenders

In the 1991 BJS Survey of State Inmates, about 8% of the inmates reported that they had owned a military-type weapon, such as an Uzi, AK-47, AR-15, or M-16. Less than 1% said that they carried such a weapon when they committed the incident for which they were incarcerated. A Virginia inmate survey conducted between November 1992 and May 1993 found similar results: About 10% of the adult inmates reported that they had ever possessed an assault rifle, but none had carried it at the scene of a crime.

Two studies indicate higher proportions of juvenile offenders reporting possession and use of assault rifles. The Virginia inmate survey also covered 192 juvenile offenders. About 20% reported that they had possessed an assault rifle and 1% said that they had carried it at the scene of a crime. In 1991, Sheley and Wright surveyed 835 serious juvenile offenders incarcerated in 6 facilities in 4 States. In the Sheley and Wright study, 35% of the juvenile inmates reported that they had owned a military-style automatic or semi-automatic rifle just prior to confinement.
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This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline rabbidrabbit

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« Reply #72 on: March 28, 2005, 08:10:56 PM »
note that the Military, and for that matter the rest of the worlds definition of "assault weapon" and the legal definition of "assault weapon" you are refering to are different.   You are confusing the issue.

Before quoting the NY use how about establishing what they are considering "assault weapons".  

Do you understand that none of the weapons used in the crimes you quoted were machine guns?

Offline Russian

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« Reply #73 on: March 28, 2005, 08:15:19 PM »
Quote
An assault weapon can be a pistol, a rifle, or a shotgun



:rolleyes:  :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #74 on: March 28, 2005, 08:16:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by weaselsan
You are referring to special needs license, ie Body guard to some  Arab Shiek. To get a license for a full auto it takes dang near an act of congress. You don't walk down to Buck's gun rack plunk down some cash wait your time and walk out with an AK-47.


Weasel, You do not need a "special license" or any of the other things you mentioned. Sorry but class 3 weapons are available for sale, can be purchased by every day folks as long as they pass the background check and pay the transfer tax. If you don't believe me call the local ATF and ask them.

A dealer that sells that particular type of weapon is a class 3 dealer.
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