Author Topic: A glimplse of the future for Europeans? (Read 1866 times)

straffo · « **Reply #60 on:** November 06, 2005, 04:33:20 AM »

Let speak also about Iron ,Wood and USA.

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #61 on:** November 06, 2005, 10:39:29 AM »

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Originally posted by bj229r
Kinda makes me feel better about our harmless Mexicans:D

Exactly. Best Immigrants EVAR

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #62 on:** November 06, 2005, 02:17:40 PM »

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The big problem with socialism in Europe is that the guaranteed right to welfare is very attractive to the poor people of asia, africa and the middle east and once these poor people get to places like France, UK and Germany, they are treated as an inferior race by the aboriginal europeans (maybe not so much in the UK). Right now France is feeling the heat because the muslims there are angry at the 2nd class treatment the French are giving them. Holding them down, treating them like dirt. Soon the muslim brothers will bring their wrath to other european countries.

What they should do is to banish each immigrant that commits a serious crime such as violent rioting or theft. If an immigrant can't live on the rules of the society he/she has no place to be there in the first place.

Finland has been very strict on who we let to stay here for the above mentioned reason among others and now it seems we were right all along. Trust me, the government has taken a lot of international heat for the immigration policy (demanding larger quotas etc.) but this proves that our line is the right one. Our government aims to help people at their place of origin instead of getting them up here.

There are good immigrants (which I know many, my wife is one of them) and bad immigrants.

straffo · « **Reply #63 on:** November 06, 2005, 02:19:36 PM »

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Originally posted by Yeager
The big problem with socialism in Europe is that the guaranteed right to welfare is very attractive to the poor people of asia, africa and the middle east and once these poor people get to places like France, UK and Germany, they are treated as an inferior race by the aboriginal europeans (maybe not so much in the UK). Right now France is feeling the heat because the muslims there are angry at the 2nd class treatment the French are giving them. Holding them down, treating them like dirt. Soon the muslim brothers will bring their wrath to other european countries.

And you're completly wrong.

The people rioting are young people born in France and are French.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #64 on:** November 06, 2005, 03:08:41 PM »

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Originally posted by straffo
And you're completly wrong.

The people rioting are young people born in France and are French.

This is true and it's exactly the cause of the problem. THe socialist french economic system makes it too easy for these young people to exist without working and entirely too difficult for employers to hire these underskilled workers since socialist wage laws and uinin regs make these employees far too expensiive.

It's all France's fault.

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #65 on:** November 06, 2005, 03:23:32 PM »

Dunno Grunherz.. I prefer to have a minimum wage instead of having 3 jobs. Having certain rights as a worker means you live a more humane life.

Sure it means more unemployment but with any benefit there will always be people abusing it. Our system protects the employees from unfair treatment and the social security provides a safety network which will provide minimum income. You have to realize that the dole gives an income which is $300 / month below the generally accepted poverty level. You can get by on that money, but nobody wants to do that for long.

Well, unless they do black money jobs on the side.

I know I wouldn't want to end up on the street after getting in an accident or chronically ill and blowing medical insurance.

straffo · « **Reply #66 on:** November 06, 2005, 03:42:14 PM »

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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
This is true and it's exactly the cause of the problem. THe socialist french economic system makes it too easy for these young people to exist without working and entirely too difficult for employers to hire these underskilled workers since socialist wage laws and uinin regs make these employees far too expensiive.

It's all France's fault.

Almost right, albeit they are underskilled because they were too lazy to pull their finger out of their arses at school.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #67 on:** November 06, 2005, 03:43:59 PM »

It's all a metter of degree of course. The usa has minimum wage laws, union protections, and other worker protection laws but we have, even in these slow economic times nowehere the level of unemployment guarnteed by current european socialist state laws.

Yeager · « **Reply #68 on:** November 06, 2005, 06:58:15 PM »

I'm pulling some numbers out of the air for this one.
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You are pulling numbers out of thin air perhaps?

Lets have a meaningful discussion about government subsidies excluding the transfer of military technology to commercial applications, and excluding tax breaks and business incentives. BOTH Boeing and Airbus take equal advantage of these technology transfers and special business and tax arrangements.

These are not the gripes of Boeing. Boeing complains about the use of risk free capital to develop high risk commercial jetliners. Airbus recieves billions in risk free loans from the governments of spain, germany, france and the uk. Boeing recieves no such guaranteed risk free loans from any government for any program and is competing against a company that will not, or can not compete fairly. Boeing puts its very existence into jeapordy every time in launches a new airliner, its called risk and its what happens in a free market. Airbus faces no such risk.

cpxxx · « **Reply #69 on:** November 06, 2005, 07:02:17 PM »

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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
It's all a metter of degree of course. The usa has minimum wage laws, union protections, and other worker protection laws but we have, even in these slow economic times nowehere the level of unemployment guarnteed by current european socialist state laws.

You have a point. It's the same in this country. We've taken on board a lot of the good points from the USA way of doing things. Result is a 4.3% unemployment rate. A labour shortage, 100, 000 immmigrants from Poland alone arrived in the last two years and we need more. The French were terrified of the mythical 'Polish plumber' arriving and undercutting the locals. Let me tell you, all the Polish plumbers are here earning the same high wages as the Irish plumbers. The economy has boomed since we dropped all that high tax, socialist dogma some years ago. Yes we do have poor people still although you really have to try very hard to be out of work these days.

As long as many countries like France and Germany persist with the old socialist way of things. They will continue to have problems. People with jobs and a future don't riot. The rioters in France have nothing to lose.

The Muslim thing is a red herring. Right now I think this continued rioting is simply hooliganism and lawlessness. It needs to be sorted fast.

Having said I have great faith in the French ability to solve their problems. It will be done the French way and no doubt it will work. I really do not like all this French bashing anymore than I like Ameri bashing. Equally stupid.

straffo · « **Reply #70 on:** November 06, 2005, 11:51:53 PM »

hmmm ... I think it was the arrival of the polish plumber to work in France with the polish wadge.

Suave · « **Reply #71 on:** November 07, 2005, 08:23:38 AM »

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Originally posted by cpxxx
You have a point. It's the same in this country. We've taken on board a lot of the good points from the USA way of doing things. Result is a 4.3% unemployment rate. A labour shortage, 100, 000 immmigrants from Poland alone arrived in the last two years and we need more. The French were terrified of the mythical 'Polish plumber' arriving and undercutting the locals. Let me tell you, all the Polish plumbers are here earning the same high wages as the Irish plumbers. The economy has boomed since we dropped all that high tax, socialist dogma some years ago. Yes we do have poor people still although you really have to try very hard to be out of work these days.

As long as many countries like France and Germany persist with the old socialist way of things. They will continue to have problems. People with jobs and a future don't riot. The rioters in France have nothing to lose.

The Muslim thing is a red herring. Right now I think this continued rioting is simply hooliganism and lawlessness. It needs to be sorted fast.

Having said I have great faith in the French ability to solve their problems. It will be done the French way and no doubt it will work. I really do not like all this French bashing anymore than I like Ameri bashing. Equally stupid.

Yep, we've seen similar types of youth mob violence in other countries, Honduras and Brazil could be modern examples. I think it's a consequence of having a generation of people who believe that they have no future.

Yeager · « **Reply #72 on:** November 07, 2005, 01:22:29 PM »

If Boeing were loaned billions of dollars with a no risk gurantee by the US government to develope the successor to the 747 jumbo to compete directly against the a380, you would start to get an idea as to what I have been talking about.

Currently Boeing recieves no such money. Airbus has received the equivalent of over 15 billion euros since 1967 in no risk loans from the governments of spain, france, germany and uk.

Heres the bottom line: If the first a380 were to slam into the ground with 800 passengers on board during its maiden revenue flight, and no more a380s were ever built, Airbus would not have to repay any of the money it was loaned to develope that airplane.

If the first 787 crashes, and no more are made, boeing would default on the entire commercial business. Thats the risk that Boeing takes that airbus does not.

I think this little sidebar illustrates clearly the potential for a very poor future between europe and america. Your reluctance to address this issue is a real reflection of the overall euro attitude towards unfairly undercutting american industrial strength at every opportunity. Any dishonest move is a legitamit move when applied against american industry.

Yeager · « **Reply #73 on:** November 07, 2005, 01:26:38 PM »

I think it's a consequence of having a generation of people who believe that they have no future.
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We all get to die. What future is there in that?........

Perhaps if they studied the life of Jesus Christ they would realize they have a future. A bright future, full of Gods love.....an eternity!

An eternity in the blissfull joy and love of the Lord, forever and ever....amen.

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #74 on:** November 07, 2005, 02:26:02 PM »

Lol that's all fine and dandy Yeager.. You just forget that everyone does _not_ even believe in that stuff.

I find your logic interesting on the airbus / boeing deal. So you think $150 mil of overpay which you do not need to pay back is somehow worse than a guaranteed loan which you will need to pay back if all goes as planned?

Let's make a deal. I'll get $1mil from Donald Trump as a present, you get a loan from europe (which you will need to pay back if you succeed in business). Which one will be happier?