doughnut

[Morpheus]

OK, do you think it would be fair to say that the knowledge level of the pilots in the MA has decreased, as far as Turn & Burn tactics (knife fighting) goes?

Absolutely. Over all the ratio of good sticks to bad is way out of ballance.

Like I said. With more new players every week, if not every day, that ratio can't do anything but get even more lopsided. Will it eventually even out? Who knows.... Some like to learn how to fight, some can learn because they have the patience to do so, some want to but do not have the patience, and some think they're learning because their score is getting "ok" but really they still couldnt fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

Score... eh. Well when the top scoring players are listed on the Aces High Home page, every tour, it must be important right?

[Sled]

Originally posted by Morpheus
Absolutely. Over all the ratio of good sticks to bad is way out of balance.

Like I said. With more new players every week, if not every day, that ratio can't do anything but get even more lopsided. Will it eventually even out? Who knows.... Some like to learn how to fight, some can learn because they have the patience to do so, some want to but do not have the patience, and some think they're learning because their score is getting "OK" but really they still couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

OK, So what do the "experienced" players of AH purpose be done to resolve this problem?

Let me take a stab at this one. (not that I claim to be experienced)

It would seem to me there are two solutions that go hand in hand with each other.

Training (teaching) and Practice (time to fly)


Practice: That requires that people be able to spend time flying in AH, and that means more that just 10 hours (like myself) a month. Not much anyone can do about that, you either have it or you don't (I don't)

Teaching: People Like you Morph, Shane, Levi, Drex, AKAK, YUCCA, Nomde, the list goes on. (I'm not picking on you guys, you are just names that came to mind, consider it a compliment. ) People that have been flying air combat sims for many years are going to have to "step up" and start offering to teach people, the seasoned and the very new, how to "knife fight". Now I realize that time is precious for everyone, but many people in this game are able to fly 50+ hours a month! Well if you can spend 10% of that training new pilots, maybe things might start to change. And maybe they won't, but one thing is for sure. People are not going to learn how to T&B, by just reading on Netaces.org alone, someone has to be willing to show them.

If people are not willing (or able) to teach, then what are the newbies supposed to do?

Please keep in mind, I am NOT picking on you Morph, or anyone else. I am just making some observations.

[Dead Man Flying]

Sled, I don't have the time to take people aside and teach them.  At some point, people have to self-motivate like many of us and put in the effort to get better.  Every few months, I post films that I hope people find useful, but unfortunately that's about the best I can do.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Sled]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Sled, I don't have the time to take people aside and teach them.  At some point, people have to self-motivate like many of us and put in the effort to get better.  Every few months, I post films that I hope people find useful, but unfortunately that's about the best I can do.

I understand that Todd, and I have watched all of your films, and I learn a little something every time that I do. And I appreciate the fact that you let us watch them. That is a valuable contribution that you make to the AH community.

For the most part, people that are really good at something have had training by a teacher. there are the rare "self taught" but they are few.

Again guys I am not trying to make anyone feel guilty. There are people in AH that put forth an effort to advance the knowledge of the pilots that are new to this game. But there are also pilots who do little to help the new guys, but are always quick to call them a "cherry pickin tard" when they get picked by them, like they did something wrong.

Don't jump to a defensive stance guys, I'm not attacking you. I am just trying to make some intelligent observations.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+

You took the vulch as would most people.  

I did not vulch you,  I could care less about my score, take a look at it, it's pretty obvious.

Zazen

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Morpheus

And cherry picking a plane that is already engaged by 5-6 other planes is nothing. And you're dumb to boast about it.

I never cherry someone engaged by more than 2 people. This is my rule of thumb.

If there's 2 there's room for you.
If there's 3 let them be.

There's no point in having more than 3 people on one plane, even if the enemy is about to wack one of your friendlies you're just going to get in each other's way.

Zazen

[TequilaChaser]

I CAN NOT BELIEVE I SAT HERE AND READ ALL THIS CRAP, lost interest really when I started seeing all the edited post,  nite all

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
Such Cherry Picking is really no different than a HO or a vulch.  You are putting yourself in a situation in which there is almost no risk, and in which your opponent has little to no real chance of either defense or offense.

Unfortunately, like you I got sick of being cherry picked in furballs.  

But I turned to the dark side. That was early in my AH1 days, probably about '99.  I was used to furballing in  Flying Circus and Red Baron, but in there it was very difficult for someone to boom and zoom and get a kill. You had to get in there and knife fight.  But these WW2 sims are different, one quick pass with a cannon plane, and some skill less cherry picking BNZ dweeb just ended all the e and angles you just built up on your opponent.

So you become either a fast cherry picker, or a slow cherry.

Cherry pickers are really just gang bangers, and like vulchers and HO'ers, they are scum.

Cherry picking is really the result of good SA, good teamwork and taking advantage of an enemy who has voluntarily or involuntarily put himself in a compromising position. Of air to air kills during WW2 80% of planes downed by other planes were not even aware they were under attack. Cherry picking is not optional, it as much a part of air to air combat as the break turn or split s. It is a fact that players attacking other planes are lowering their defense, that is the game. If you attack you are making yourself vulnerable. Planes that single-minded latch onto another plane and commence the stall fight game are the most vulnerable to attack. The more focussed you become on one opponent the less aware you become of your 6 o'clock, your surrounidngs, and other opponents, that is the trade-off.

Also, don't confuse Cherry picking (attacking engaged planes) with bouncing (attacking un-engaged planes). Just because you kill someone who was unaware of your prescence does not necessarily mean you cherried him. A good bounce is just catching somone not paying attention or who noticed you too late. I have mastered this tactic, I have memorized every view position in every plane in the set, and know from which angle to attack planes, I love to hear people say, damn Zazen I never even saw you!  of course I just smile

Zazen

[Shane]

Like Todd, I don't have the luxury of time I used to for training.  I have helped people in the past and at some point I will again, but that's only 1 person at a time.

Todd nailed it when he said people have to be self-motivated - i'm thinking that's the biggest difference i'm seeing between "generations."

my "training" consisted of repeatedly dying and striving to reverse that trend.

two of the best ways to get better 1v 1 and 1 v 2 or 3 is to

a) find someone with comparable or slightly better than yourself and do a lot of 1 v 1 in various planes in the DA.

b) fly the fringes of the fight a mile or 3 off and try to engage/bait a few to come after you, not being afraid to fight from a disadvantage, such as alt or #'s.  of course you'll die a lot, but over time you acquire the skills that can be used in the bigger picture.

it puzzles me people have no qualms about diving down and dying to try and get a vulch, yet are totally afraid to die vs another player who has even the remotest semblence of equality.

what makes the "good" sticks stand out so prominently is basically their ability to fight from a disadvantage. given equal footing, they usually simply run amok tearing new buttholes.

one cannot get better if one doesn't push oneself...  the virtual world of AH is full of sheep who fear to leave the comfort zone for whatever reason.

i do admit some people just *can't* do it... or it's very difficult for them, we can't all be levithan's.... but until you give it an honest effort, you'll never know if you might be the next one.

[Guppy35]

Rule number one:

Don't be afraid to lose.  No one's really dying and planes are free.  The only way to get better is to get in there and mix it up.  

Rule number 2:

Quit worrying about getting 'attaboys' for landing kills. Too many guys over flying the fights to quick kill a bunch on the runway and run home for their "attaboys" Stop looking at your K/D ratio and thinking it says anything.   No one's really dying and planes are free.  The only way to get better is to get in there and mix it up.  

Rule number 3:

It's just a game.  If you are getting too serious about it, it's probably time for a break.   No one's really dying and planes are free.  The only way to get better is to get in there and mix it up.  


Now I suck for the most part, but I'm diving into the fight regardless.   More often then not I'm not even diving in.  They're diving in on me.  But again, the only way to get better is to get in there and mix it up

We're all apt to get caught up in thinking what we do in AH means something.  I know I've sure had my moments, but I'm a lot better at not getting too serious now then I used to be.  And if a dweeb like me can relax and enjoy, anyone can learn to do it

[hubsonfire]

Originally posted by SLED
So, maps in AW and WB were much smaller? It was harder for people to go to an area of the map away from the action?

Initially, even the maps in AH were smaller. One day, HTC decided that they'd have a million people on at any given time, and designed huge maps. Initially (read that, in some prior sims), people paid by the hour (handsomely) to play, and didn't want to spend that time flying around without opposition (as is the norm now).

The only planes I can remember from AW are the deathstar (known here as the B-17), P38, and spit. Granted, during the time I played AW, I was blind drunk, at a minimum.

Regarding training: no one who's gotten good at the game should have to pay to teach others to play the game. That's just silly. I doubt that the names you listed (and i could be wrong) had someone holding their hand throughout the process. I have, in 5ish years of AW/AH/AH2, a total of 1 hour of formal training, which I received in the last year. This is a game. You either want to learn, or you don't. No one should have to teach you.

Oh, yeah, and what Dan said. He's normally pretty rational.

<2nd edit> Yes, the newer sticks do suck. Considering that many of the initial AHers came from another sim, it's not all that surprising. While they're horrible (trust me, I'm the resident expert on the topic), at least some of them will improve. Some will want to, some won't, but we earlier dweebs already a grounding on flying cartoon airplanes. They're getting that now. My overwhelming concern is that they'll stop trying in short order, and this game will revolve around seeing who can kill the most objects without encountering another person.

[Sled]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
Regarding training: no one who's gotten good at the game should have to pay to teach others to play the game. That's just silly. I doubt that the names you listed (and i could be wrong) had someone holding their hand throughout the process. I have, in 5ish years of AW/AH/AH2, a total of 1 hour of formal training, which I received in the last year. This is a game. You either want to learn, or you don't. No one should have to teach you.

Nobody has to teach anyone anything. And I'm not suggesting that the Sim pilots with years of experience HAVE to do anything. nor am I suggesting they have some kind of "duty" to do so. I do believe in something my Grandfather taught me, "If your going to complain, be ready to do something about it." My point in my last few post is this. If the pilots of AH are going to Fill the Hard drives at HTC with endless complaints about the quality of the pilots in AH, they should stand up and do something about it. Do they have to? No of course not. But how much credibility can a complaint have, with out action to fix the problem?

My guess is everyone on this post would disagree, that's OK, it doesn't mean I'm wrong.


You are correct, you are your own best motivator, if you want to get better at anything, it starts with your desire to do so. No desire, No improvement, period. Given enough time anyone can become good at something. I've been riding Snowmobiles (Sled's) for over 27 years now, The only formal training I've had is in avalanche awareness and recognition. I would dare say I can ride the mountains with anyone in this state, most likely the country. But it took many years of hard knocks (and a few to many injuries) to learn what I know now. Boy, I wonder how much better I would have been, 20 years ago, if I had had some real training in what I was doing. But hey, it can be fun doing it the hard way, it just takes longer:)

[Ohio43]

Originally posted by mars01
Get with the program Ohio -

First if HTC pulled everything that caused controversy in this game he wouldn't be in business.  Also if he pulled this map he would be sending the signal that he could careless about the fighter population in this game and I for one would be done for good as I would think others would be too.

Secondly who is saying no land grabbers and milk runners?  Yeah it would be nice it these guys would leave FT alone for the guys that want to fight, or they themselves would just go there to fight, but some can't do that because they are griefers.

And yes you missed it last night when the Bish were making a grab for the last field in FT from the rooks.  They got repelled and then ran leaving nothing to do in FT.  So we put out the word for a knight to drag a goon to one of the base so they could get their base back.  Unfortunately the closest knight base was 3 sectors away.

Yes I agree it takes players on both sides having balls to up and fight in FT, unfortunately that was not the case and FT sucked last night.  If the base were uncapturable this problem would be solved and a true FT would be the jewel of this game.

   It isnt a matter of getting with the program.  Im not on a crusade to have the map removed.  IM not the one who said it had caused controversy, Im just saying, basically, that the-powers-to-be might remove it again because of it's continuing controversy.  I personally have no beef with any of the maps.  It just seems to me that the whole desire to have this map back due to the supposed love for a FT isnt being demonstrated.  I went on again last night (same situations Rooks 2 FT's and Bish 1 FT) and even tried to rally the Rooks to give ground to the knits and they wouldnt do it.  Even asked the Rooks why they were planning on taking 167 (the last airfield in FT)  the answer was "because it's fun"

[Chitownflyer]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
The goal is to have fun.  Sounds simple enough.  However, as many people as there are playing the game, there are an equal number of ideas of what is fun.

Saying one player's idea of fun is not right due to the idea not being your idea of fun is not right.  Trying to dictate to others your idea of "fun" being the only right idea is akin to telling a car buyer they cannot buy that luxury car because you do not like it.  You will have as much success telling the car buyer he is wrong as telling other players they cannot have fun in the manner they are having it.

In the game, there are moments of grandeur.  Revel in them.  There are also moments of frustration.  It will happen and nothing can prevent it.  Moments of frustration make the moments of grandeur even better.

Persisting in chasing the goblins you create when players are having fun, and you cannot accept they are having fun, just adds more frustration.  If your idea of fun clashes with another players idea of fun, someone is going to get frustrated.  How that frustration is dealt with is the key.

You can brush it off and try to get back to that moment of grandeur, or you can revel in the frustration and expound on it to the point of getting other players irrirtated.  All the while you accomplish very little to nothing.

Finding a way to turn a negative into a positive takes more effort than just staying in the negative mode, but it can be far more fun.

AMEN.... I was at FT and I was having a golorious time killing bish
and proding the rooks very own foot in mouth man Rmanic.

I revile in those moments of "Grandeur" were dreams are realized

Chi

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Guppy35
It's just a game.  

It's not.  It's a war.  A real war, just like WWII.

Honestly, Guppy, I think you need a reality check.

- oldman