Its only a matter of time before the US/Chino war

[Toad]

Boroda,

So there is no misunderstanding, I think the normal "everyday" people are no different than those of the US or most any other country.

We all enjoy lifes simple pleasures... family, friends, a jug of wine, a loaf of bread and just about anyone of the opposite sex that we can get to hold still long enough.  

I feel sorry for the "common" people of your nation. They are long-suffering and deserve better from their leaders than they have received "for a thousand years."

I just don't know how it will ever change unless from within.

Good luck.

[Sturm]

Boroda, I have always left an open venue for everyone.  No matter what our government has said about them.  I have relatives that are ukranians so I can sympathize with them about their political plight.  It is funny how we can sometimes forget what is actually being shoveled out by our government to mask the others intentions.

I am quite sure we could get along with RUssians if the government would allow it.  Hell we get along with the canadians and they are a rowdy bunch.  The french well no one likes them, besides the french so we will leave them alone.  I think it is time we let our political venues go in this forum and relate to what we really want and that is WW2 planes we all love and studied with a passion.  

If we go to war with china so be it, I will still do the same things over here.  I did my time in the service and will not be recalled unless there is a drastic shortage of fodder.  Hope this message will help others understand as well.    

[Boroda]

Toad, I meant that Russians will be always unsatisfied by ANY government we have. Living according to your personal moral principles ("po ponyatiyam") and always fighting the Big Brother is a common thing here. From this POV - government is always an enemy number one. This doesn't include defencive wars against invaders, Russians will resist them by all means.

Sturm: "So be it"...

Well... Unfortunately, I doubt that many people here will keep their jobs, and simply live like they did, in case of US war with China   Should you stay away from "service" if your Army skills will be nessesary in, for example, civil defence?

What we have now is the first worldwide crisis since the cold war times. Now it's much more dangerous because the balance is broken...

------------------
With respect,
    Pavel Pavlov,
    Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS

[miko2d]

 

Originally posted by Boroda:
Look at the story with Pavel Pavlovich Borodin.

 Could it be that we are looking at it differently?
 Russians assume that law is secondary to the government wishes and if something happens it is US governmemt responcibility bacause the law is just irrelevant.
 That is not so. Once there was a legal order for arrest and no legal immunity, US government had no influence on the case, no matter what it's wishes were.

 miko

[Ripsnort]

 

Originally posted by Boroda:
From this POV - government is always an enemy number one.

Well, then you'd make a damn fine Republican in the U.S.  Repubs want a smaller Gov't, less taxes, Dems want bigger Gov't, more taxes.  

[miko2d]

 

Originally posted by Boroda:
This doesn't include defencive wars against invaders, Russians will resist them by all means.

 You should have qualified it, like "some Russians will resist them by all means".

 If you've read your russian history, you would have seen that it is mostly treachery. "History of the Russian State" by Karamsin is quite an eye-opener. There hardly seemed to be a decade that a russian did not invite foreigners to help destroy his neighbours. And that was written by a patriotic court historian!
 How many hundreds of thousands of russians/ukrainians fought on the side of Germans in WWII?

 Russian people are very much like any oher people. No less capable, no more noble.

 miko

[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 04-27-2001).]

[miko2d]

 

Originally posted by MrSiD:
'If we would cut trade with China they would be in trouble..'

Again it sounds like some of the Americans think that US is the whole world outside of China..

 If you knew the numbers, you would have posted them here, MrSiD, so apparently you do not. It seems that the only thing you know relevant to this argument is that there are other countries other then US and China. So what?
 I cannot tell you not to get into arguments if you cannot substantiate your statements, but I can tell you that you sound like an ignorant.

 Here are the numbers for you for 1999:
12% of Chinese imports are from US
22% of Chinese exports are to US.

 Just the trade imbalance between US and China is $60 billion a year in Chinese favor - money flowing (being invested) into their economy.

 You think that a loss of 22% of exports, 12% of strategically important imports (we do not sell them consumer junk and clothes but serious technology) and $60 billion a year in investments would not cause a HUGE trouble to any country?

 I am not even talking about the direct investments etc.

 Do you think Japan likes the idea of China occupying Taiwan? Is there a chance they would side with US if the situation gets tough?
 Because those guys have There %20 of chinese imports and 17% of chinese exports.

 miko

[Cabby]

Boroda:

You may think the "Yankees"(yechh)cried when they got their "feet wet" and your Brilliant Leader,(LOL) Stalin and the Russian People, and the peoples of the Soviet Occupied Territories,  carried the brunt of the fighting in Europe,(and they did)but don't forget the savage fighting in the disease-infested South Pacific against a fanatical foe more than willing to die for their Emperor.  I don't recall any "Rooskies" in that Theater until it was "safe" to be there.  And the Rooskies were never asked to help  the Allies there either....

In any case, haven't you figured it out yet??  The Americans generally fight a helluva lot smarter and don't like to engage in those Slaughterfests the Euros are so fond of......

Cabby



[This message has been edited by cabby (edited 04-27-2001).]

[StSanta]

Heh cabby, yeah, we were really begging for WWII.

All men women and children here wanted the war.

The reason we allowed it to become a slaughterfest had nothing to do with *survival of nations* but everything to do with a wish to see some blood.

You say you're smarter than this - prove it.

 

------------------
Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"

[Sturm]

I think what cabby is referring to is the rcok em sock em bip boom bah wars you have had over there.  Dunno but what about the civil war here in the US?  We lost over 1 million would that not qualify as a blood bath as well cabby?

[Boroda]

Cabby, here we go again... US was playing war on some small islands forgotten by god for almost 4 years, while Soviet army destroyed Quantung army (1.5 million soldiers!) in 2 weeks. It started hostilities exatly when it was agreed in Yalta. Remember how many times "second front" was postponed?

Miko, maybe you think that Latvian "SS legion" murderers are "hundreeds of thousands of Russian and Ukrainians"?! Or maybe this "hundreeds of thousands" are the Vlasov's Russian Liberation Army? Something wrong with arythmetics?

Miko, my grand-uncle was a Cossak officer who survived civil-war cleansings on Don. When GPW began he volunteered as a soldier, only thinking that he will desert and join Germans to fight Bolsheviks. He thought that the new war will be like WWI. But then he saw what are that brave Arians doing to Russia... He finished a war in Germany in 1945.

BTW, when I first noticed your posts - I though that you are a Ukrainian nationalist, banderovets, who emigrated from katsaps (or do they call us "moskals"?) and waves the yellow-blue flag with a "volya" trident in another hand. Now you speak like that again, and according to a discussion logic the next thing you'll say will be that Babiy Yar was arranged by Bolsheviks, and western Ukrainians are the best friends to Jews. Am i right?  

------------------
With respect,
    Pavel Pavlov,
    Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS

[MrSiD]

Miko: what stops China from increasing its trade through russia for the similar amount?

I'm pretty sure that if the US starts messing with China, the russians will do their best to help the chinese.

All they have to do is increase the price of pirated cd:s with 20% (so you get only 10 cd's for $20 instead of 13)

Everyone of you, who are pro-war are the true ignorants. War is barely acceptable only when it happens to protect your own country from invasion. Even then it creates a huge tragedy for all involved. Something you video-game numbed kiddies won't seem to understand.

The US government did a nice job censoring the last war, it looked just like playing falcon 4.. It was a big media victory for the coalition. They learned a lot from Vietnam, now it's a lot easyer to sell a war to the crowds.

Hollywood producers are probably the only ones who will profit from this conflict (if Chinese won't manage to nuke h-wood first..)

I agree that Taiwan should be helped to protect itself somehow.. This missile hungry attitude of the people up there is just beginning to make me sick.

[Toad]

I think the numbers are $80 million USD on the imbalance, in China's favor.

Why don't they go to Russia? Probably because the Russians aren't nearly as stupid as we are about trade.  

Think the Russians are going to lend them the money to buy from Russia? In USD? Last I heard, the Russians wanted all the USD they could get. Think the Chinese want Rubles?

Think the Russians will give them MFN status?

Think the Russians will run an $80 million USD imbalance with them?

Think the Russians will be willing to swap front line technology for little GI IVAN toys, Barbiskie dolls and flip-flop sandals?

You guys crack me up.

They trade with us because it is a deal so forking good for them that NO other nation on earth would be foolish enough to give them anything remotely like it.  

[Fatty]

A newer, freer China.  I guess before their newfound progressive government, he would have simply been shot?

Man arrested for posting on the internet.

[Toad]

Fer Cripes sake Fatty!

He was advocating POLITICAL REFORM!!!!!

You can excuse anything can't you? Political Reform, Man!  There HAS to be a limit!

Anyway, he only got 4 years. Probably in a cell full of potential pets... likes rats and roaches. Gifts of a benevolent government.